Researching the Myth of Randy Elliott
The other night during Timmy’s game, a Giants left handed hitter BLASTED a ball about 450 feet down the right field line and it went just foul. They panned back to the hitter, I couldn’t tell who it was from his face so I knew he was some random rook, and he kind lowered his head and and shook it back and fourth a couple of times. You could see how bummed he was coming so close to making an impression with a monster bomb. But now, he was in danger of making another impression, this one bad, if he started sulking about the bomb that was not to be. He composed himself, got back in the box and ended up blasting a home run to right center field in that same at bat. As he was rounding the bases I thought, “Goddamn, that dude’s gotta feel like he’s floating around the bases.” And I was happy for him because it was a gamer-move to hit a bomb in the same at bat that could have gotten ruined by self pity. His name was Johnny Monell, a non-prospect left handed catcher in the org, and I read in the Merc yesterday that he’s 9-15 this spring (.600). Of course that brought up the inevitable “Randy Elliott” reference in the article. But this particular article by Carl Steward also linked to a “Where are the Now” story written about Randy Elliott about 10 years ago.
I couldn’t click on that link fast enough…
I talk about Randy Elliott like I know who he is but the only recollection I have of him is his name from the yearly stories I hear about him when someone gets hot in spring training. Some of you old timers will remember a lot more about him beyond his *Spring Fling*. But in ’77 I was just in my infancy of starting to care about baseball. 1976/1977 was when I started to collect baseball cards. My first three were given to me by a neighbor kid: Jim Barr, Bobby Murcer and Gary Thomasson. Didn’t have a Randy Elliott card. Didn’t want a Randy Elliott card. Didn’t know who the feck Randy Elliott was.
But over the years, I heard about him all the time. It was only last night, after I read the piece by Steve Kroner, that I found out more about him. Here is his baseball card:
Now, I don’t know about you guys, but the first thing I thought when i saw this card was that Randy Elliott looks an awful lot like this dude:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>And I don’t like this dude<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Even with this bias I read the article and discovered many interesting things. On March 16th, Elliott’s batting average stood at .692. His average *plummeted* to .547 by the end of Spring Training and he told Kroner, “If I hit .400 in spring I knew I wouldn’t make the team.” That’s a fantastic line. He hit .215 for his mlb career and when asked how he was able to cobble together such a mythic spring he said, “My left shoulder stayed in the whole time. When my shoulder was healthy, I could play.”
(He was drafted by the Padres in ’69 and hurt the shoulder playing winter ball in ’72. It would be an injury he would struggle with his entire career)
But coming out of his epic spring, he earned a spot on the team in a left field platoon with Darrell Evans. Sadly, in the 2nd game of the season he was hit in the shoulder by Doug Rau and in his next at bat he felt his shoulder pop loose. He did nothing the rest of the year and was released after the season. His high point was a pinch hit grand slam off the Reds’ Fred Norman. Dang, how great would it be to see video of Elliott rounding those bases?
Here are his career stats:
I enjoyed reading about him and can at least now understand a little bit of the reference when someone brings him up next year. And the year after that. And the year after that. And the…..
A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball 
Yeah I remember that spring. I remember the sportscasters raving about his spring that year.
I bet the van folk rave about your spring’s ever year, right Nip?
Yeah, and you bring him up again I sent you a fucking Email.
I responded.
If you’re to delete “lame” threads, you have a few hundred to get going on,Flavor. That was bullshit.
(In a post that was deleted by Craig not because it attacked anyone, or was in violation of any any rules, but because he didn’t like it ( I did the Worst Players post on top of it after he sent me an Email detailing his “review” of the post he ended up deleting), I talked about spring numbers ( actually they’re close to regular season numbers on average), four dollar porn from Maddog featuring “Ravenous Asian Sluts, Volume 17″…there was an excerpt from Dirk Hayhurst’s latest book ( he’s easily the best ex-jock writing humorously about the game, and he doesn’t do innaccurate hatchet jobs on dead players or features on fat wives). It may not have been my best post but arbitrarily deleting it was wrong. Period.
He doesn’t pull that on anyone else, and everyone has posted less than stellar threads-in fact, some are borderline illiterate.
go ahead and put your porn/ST stats thing in B. It’s where it belongs. Now stop posting about this and, FOR ONCE IN THE LAST 3 DAYS, post something about the thread topic or, here’s an idea, stop fucking posting.
If you want me to stop posting, ban me. I’ve posted about today’s lame thread- Randy has been done a thousand times.And I corrected you on Monell.
you didn’t post about today’s thread. You posted about yourself, as usual.
I posted that the thread is lame-o. Try something not covered a thousand times. And look at the time line- I posted about Monell.
Randy Elliot is the name every blogger and/or writer with nothing new to say brings up whenever a kid a has a nice spring.
Nice column and quotes from Scutaro in the chron today from the normally useless Ostler.
As Snarkk has said here before, hope he rubs off on the other guys, particularly younger players. No matter how much longer he lasts, good guy to have around.
The 3-year deal length is obviously concerning, but that’s the way of the world these days. He’s never shown a proclivity for injury, so hopefully his good health will continue over the next several seasons…
Of concern should be his pretty terrible season with the Rockies before he came here and discovered whatever Melky had in his locker.
Monell is not a “non-prospect”, he’s not a prospect as far being a prospective starter in the bigs.
As disappointing as Randy’s career ended up being, he actually did more than most spring phenoms ever do- many never get to the show despite a big spring. He got a nice sip and a piece every frigging spring when a kid has a big ST..
the thread isn’t new to me as it is clearly indicated in the intro, the body and the conclusion. As I said, older people would know more about this story than people my age and younger.
I also thought the similarity to AJ was striking, but maybe that’s just me.
I’m sure the others will enjoy it. I’m jaded from hearing about him every spring for 30 some years.
Shit I wasn’t even born in 1977… Thanks for sharing the story, and he does look a lot like AJ..
I love to occasionally bring up David “I was really 10 yrs older”Green, who the Giants were snoorked in to trading Jack Clark for to St Louis.Cards were laughing on that steal for years. 1 terrible season with us and he was gone.Geez shades of AJ Jerkoff as well.
Jerkoff was such an asshole,he once to a foulball off his leg,finished his usual out,went back to the dugout and Stan Conte came over to check on him and he kneed him in the groin.True story.That and him and Brett Tomko couldn’t lay stand each other and came to blows.
I vividly remember Jack Clark coming back to Candlestick with the Cards and getting IBB’d a bunch. Turns out the Giants faced him in 57 games and intentionally walked him 7 times. Clark hit 10 HRs off the Giants in those 57 games and otherwise ripped it up, too.
The Monell HR the other night was delightful. You could see him digging back in after the foul ball went deep. He was determined to hit a bomb, and he did. He bats left, but, of course, throws right. Unfortunately, I gather that by comparison he makes Hector look like Pudge behind the plate.
Ah, A.J., and the horror that was the 2004 season. The season Sabean made his infamous “lunatic fringe” statement about how passionately some fans wanted the Giants to sign Vlad Guerrero to play right field and bat behind Bonds. Instead….we got A.J., and lost Nathan.
I’m sure Sabean regrets that statement, but it’s all forgiven, obviously. There’s that Sabean quote on the wall at AT&T Park about winning the championship in 2010 and “burying all the old bones.”
The “Bonds window” closed after the 2004 season, but the pieces were starting to fall in place behind the scenes for future great success.
I could be wrong, but as I recall, the lunatic fringe comment was made after the Matt Williams trade. Regardless, Sabes has proven many more times than not that he’s much smarter than the arm chair blog potatoes.
You could be right on that timeline. 2004 was the first time *I* heard about it. It was brought up by callers into Ralph’s show. (Was Tolbert on the show by then? Possibly. I don’t dig Ratto on with Tom these days. I don’t listen to it when Ratto’s on the show.)
I LOATH Ratto. All he does is bide his time so that he can shove some witty response on to whoever is speaking (Tom, people they’re interviewing, etc….). I am in the minority, but I liked him with Byrnes when they were both talking from an “I played the game before” perspective. They’re both pretty down to earth so it never felt like they were talking down to the listeners. At least to me.
I didn’t listen to Ralph much his last few years. He seemed to have lost a lot of interest in his own show. Maybe it was the Giants winning the World Series in 2010. He had reached the ‘holy grail’ finally. Ralph had his detractors over the years, often for good reason, but he does get some points for having been a consistent and highly vocal advocate for a China Basin ballpark over the years.
Yeah, the Tolbert/Byrnes team is what KNBR ultimately wants. I’m not sure how that will all work out, with Byrnes having an MLB network contract.
The comment I remember from Sabean after the Williams trade was “I’m not the village idiot”.
I cannot listen to Byrnes, though I liked him as a player.
After a few words from him, I feel brain cells dying. Mine.
And, I don’t allow my brain cells to die such a useless death.
The are allowed to die valiantly and gloriously after a bourbon bath or scotch shower…
Yeah Loo, your right.After every fan was ripping Sabes a new one he came out and said I’m not an idiot.Turns out he was right.Matty wasn’t the same player going to Cleveland then again who ever is.Jeff Kent turned out amazing (sure HOF IMO)of course and he was just a throw in.
OK, now you are pissing me off.
Me, the most influential person in my entire household.
*shudder* when you think of this
I do
Then I cry, not having MLB.com TV this season due to budgetary constraints. and so I missed the Lincecum game and, except for some yankme games on espn (Eastcoast Sports Privileged Nonsense) It is going to be a long painful season when only the occasional Giants game is shown.
I think Scutaro has the body type that flexes and adapts well. I think he may be the exception to the 40 y/o rule.
Nice to have some of our players back from the WBC, and what a surprise – USA defeats PR! Am I correct in saying you locals have a good chance to see some games at phone park? Ticket sales are slow and offers are being offered.
Dealing with me mum. Finally got her to accept it is best she moves closer to family in a retirement community. On her 88th birthday, Saturday, she will be moving to fairfield with her 17′ van full of memories after 34 years in the home in AZ.
GO GIGANTES!
Oh, yeah, I am counting on the flap to help me keep up this season, so, not matter how obvious or common daily information may seem to you – please post all info about game times, TV coverage, sports writer’s columns etc
THANX
Ed, do you get the FOX Saturday baseball games? The Giants should be on there several times, I would think.
Only if it is relayed by espn, which it sometimes is. With the Saturday games there are more than one being broadcast and guess who espn thinks we should watch?
Right, right- you’re going to get Yankeed more often than not.
Part way through the season mlb drops the price and I may be weak, desperate, and spend the money. Otherwise I hope to get the knbr feed, which I think is free as audio only
There’s always the free “Game Day” features at MLB.com and ESPN.com. The little cheesy graphic representation, which has its uses. I’ve found myself using that a few times during the season.
Although I always wonder how they know it’s a 4-seam fastball instead of a 2-seam fastball.
—–
Y’all may or may not know that Affeldt has written a book, and it’s just been published. It’s being published by a Christian book publisher, so that gives you a sense of the direction of the book. I might give it a look.
yeah, that’s the one, hopfully with knbr, I can ignore the graphics and follow their stats totals while listening to K&K
🙂
Zum, the two seamer should have more movement down to the same side of the plate as the pitcher’s pitching arm, and the four seamer should be a higher pitch, plus a couple mph faster than the two seamer. I think the guys in the booth know the pitchers so well, they can tell by the side to side movement from the press box angle that it is a two seamer, plus if it’s taken low. And, if they know how fast the guy normally throws a four seamer, they can look at the gun mph and guess pretty well if it’s a four (say 93) or a two (maybe 89-90, if the the guy even has a two)…
don’t flame me if this comment is bad form, or hurts your tender sensibilities: (from BP)
If one thing can be said about the Giants—other than they have won two of the last three World Series, which is saying a lot—it is they are big believers in stability. General manager Brian Sabean is in his 17th season, giving him the longest tenure of any current GM. Bruce Bochy is in his ninth season as manager. Even the clubhouse manager, Mike Murphy, has been with the team since the Giants moved west to San Francisco from New York prior to the 1958 season.
Thus, it is not a surprise that of the 25 players projected to be on the Opening Day roster by Jason Martinez at MLBDepthCharts.com, 22 were in the organization last season when the Giants swept the Tigers in the World Series. The three “outsiders” are utility infielder Tony Abreu, reserve outfielder Andres Torres, and right-handed reliever Ramon Ramirez. However, Torres was the center fielder and leadoff hitter and Ramirez was part of the bullpen on the Giants’ 2010 World Series champion squad before they were traded to the Mets for center fielder Angel Pagan during the 2011-12 offseason.
Sabean made sure he retained the Giants’ top two free agents during the offseason, signing Pagan to a four-year, $40-million contract and giving second baseman Marco Scutaro a three-year, $20-million deal. Pagan and Scutaro sparked the Giants’ offense from the top two spots of the batting order after Scutaro was acquired from the Rockies in a late-July trade.
However, many analysts believe Sabean overpaid both players. The 31-year-old Pagan has a .275 career True Average, while Scutaro is 37 and has a .263 lifetime TAv.
“Brian’s greatest strength is his loyalty to the people who work for him and his players,” one National League front-office type said. “Everyone loves working for him, and the players love playing for the Giants. However, his loyalty can also be a weakness. He tends to overpay, and I think just about everyone would agree that Pagan and Scutaro were both overpays, like Aubrey Huff.”
Sabean re-signed Huff for two years and $22 million after the first baseman/outfielder posted career highs with 5.8 WARP and a .312 TAv in 2010. However, Huff was below replacement level, at -0.2 WARP, in 579 plate appearances in 2011, then was limited to 95 PA last season.
It might hard to argue for the Pagan and Scutaro contracts, but Giants catcher and reigning National League Most Valuable Player Buster Posey will gladly debate it.
“The way our offense is set up, we’re so dependent on everyone in our lineup to do their job,” Posey said. “AT&T is a pitcher’s park, and we’re not going to outslug teams. We don’t hit a lot of home runs. What we do well is hit the ball in the gaps, get guys on base, move them over, and drive them in. Angel and Marco made our offense go last season. I don’t think our offense would have been the same without them.”
Indeed, the Giants needed to manufacture runs last season as they hit 103 home runs, the fewest of any major-league club. Yet they won 94 games in the regular season despite being sixth in the NL and 12th in the major leagues in runs scored, with an average of 4.43. Though not as dominant as in recent seasons, the pitching was still good, as the Giants allowed 4.01 runs a game, which ranked sixth in the league and eighth in the majors.
Just as Posey realizes there is a delicate balance to the Giants’ batting order, two-time NL Cy Young Award winner Tim Linceucm understands the pitching staff has been a major reason for his team’s success. That is why he is happy that Sabean opted to pay premium dollars to Pagan and Scutaro rather than possibly trading a member of San Francisco’s outstanding rotation for a top-of-the-order hitter.
“You look at our club, and we may not be as talented man-for-man as some other teams, but all the pieces fit together in just the right way,” Lincecum said. “All 25 guys on our team know their roles and what it takes to win. That’s why we’ve won two of the last three World Series. We’ve been the best team. We’ve got a group of guys who have bought into what we’re trying to do here, and we’ve developed a great chemistry and a great sense of trust among our guys because of that. It doesn’t happen everywhere, and that’s why I’m glad they’ve kept the team together. I think we’re capable of winning some more World Series with the team we have.”
The writer’s a little harsh on the Huff deal. Yeah, in hindsight it looks bad, but at the time it seemed like a good deal. If the author is saying Sabean should have predicted Huff’s rapid decline that seems kind of shaky reasoning. Huff was hitting on all cylinders in 2010, and he even played good defense.
for me it is the ‘stability’ angle and the ‘we’re a team’ bit from Tim
I liked Tim’s quote on the team being the thing. He can be criticized for poor performance last year, and he has and it was fair to do so. But, like all the Giants players, he never blames anyone else for screwing up. He almost always says the right things to the media, and that’s not always easy to do for a guy with the spotlight on him…
Baseball Prospectus has a 30 minute podcast for this year’s SF Giants 2013 Season Preview here:
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=19770
if you have trouble let me know and I will post it for download for you as an mp3
or get it from itunes:
http://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/effectively-wild-daily-baseball/id545919715
The Dodgers lost 8-1 today; 2-Trips had M. Ellis batting lead-off and Ethier batting second. And that’s kind of what he’s gotta do. Without Crawford, there’s no clear-cut top of the order. I don’t think Ellis/Etheir is ideal top-of-the-order stuff, but we’ll see. And we’ll see what happens with Crawford.
Greinke’s elbow was injected with a combination of plasma and cortisone today. Interesting.
that hardly sounds like “normal spring aches and pains”….I’d be just fine with Grienke missing the season with an elbow injury…….
That doesn’t sound good at all. How much are they paying this guy? I know it’s way over the Zito deal, so it’s beyond batstuff crazy. Now if he goes down before he even pitches one regular season inning, it’s looking like it could be time to put the LA front office in with McMurphy and Nurse Ratched. (BTW, one of my 20 “top 10” movies of all time). And, how is cortisone (a steroid) plus plasma/platelets, in the broad sense, any more principled in taking to relieve acute problems than taking a banned steroid or some testosterone over the long term?…
what’s hilarious is that one of the Dodgers main investor’s made headlines with his comment “Pitcher’s break” suggesting they are cool with throwing huge $$$ at hitters but not pitchers. And then they go out and sign Grienke to a 6 year/147 million dollar deal, at the time the biggest contract for a right hander. Felix Hernandez has since surpassed it.
And, like you said, he’s 5 spring training innings into the deal and he’s already getting plasma injections into his elbow (and I don’t care how successful or innovative that is, it’s a HUGE red flag)…..
Dodgers are already leaking oil? LOL
Nip, you invite those van jokes?
I remember the first news of Zach’s injury and I immediately knew; this is serious
“I don’t know for sure,” Greinke said when asked if he’d be able to make the start. “We’re just kind of working with the training staff. I’m kind of going by what they tell me.
Ramirez with the HR off Dickey. It’s got to be a challenge for hitters not to be distracted by that gaudy thing in leftcenter.
A Miguel Tejada sighting in the WBC. He signed a minor league deal with somebody this season.
He was done two seasons ago. Some guys don’t know when to quit. If he wants to stay in baseball, fine, start coaching…
Quitting is so hard to do.
Tejada’s with the Royals.
Cortizone is a huge red flag. Plasma? WTF? That can’t be good at all.
Shades of the Jason Schmidt deal.
Well Actually Snarkk,The 2 seamer is using 2 fingers to pull down your zipper to take a leak.
The 4 seamer is when you have on those old Levis with the goddamn metal buttons.
Never did like that button stuff. Takes way too long to unleash the lizard…
Or the inchworm
The early Mets were real high on their own Elliott (Larry). He had a similar career to Randy…
Really the best career Elliot’s to make a name for themselves are….
Actor Sam Elliott ..Hey why not,he still married to Katherine Ross
Elliot. Ness…Robert Stack…The Untouchables a Quinn Martin Production.
And of course that little dweeb Elliot from ET.
Phone home Elliot…