WBC Moves On Without The US
Did any of you catch the last out of the US/PR game? Lazy fly ball out to center field, Angel Pagan caught it and celebrated like he had just won the world series. The closer (Romero?) pointed to the sky and started crying as he was getting dog piled on the mound. Think this tourney doesn’t mean anything to the other countries still alive? Think again.
And it really is tough for the US to compete in something like this. Despite not sending our best, we still sent a collection of players that could have gotten the job done. But 3 other factors made the task nearly impossible.
1) All our guys were still in spring training mode. Most of the Latin players just finished winter ball and hit the ground full speed when the WBC started. The US players are used to stretching and working on fundy drills this time of year.
2) Players from other countries simply care more than the US players about winning this thing. Brandon Phillips must have said “Losing stinks” at least three times in his interview. Dude, watch it, I thought for a second there you might let out a muffled *sigh*. Had it been a player from Puerto Rico being interviewed after the same loss the dude would probably be crying and lamenting the fact that they just let an entire country down. When you care more, you usually try harder.
3) Joe Torre is a numb skull. I think I’ve written that about 15 times over the years. But it’s true. I know he probably had a lot of people to make happy in terms of playing time or limiting their playing time or whatever, but he managed these games like Bobby Valentine. Come to think of it, B-Val would probably have been a better choice. If the manager isn’t managing to win how invested are the players in winning?
This tournament has unfolded as a very entertaining diversion from spring training. I don’t really care that the US has been eliminated. And actually, that’s probably #4 as a factor that influenced the US loss. If the US fans don’t care, how much could the players possibly care?
A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball 
Good thread and i agree with pretty much all you said, Craig.
I cared enough to follow it, mostly since the 2nd round (the last round) started.
But, I’m not all super butt-hurt that the US did not advance. We were at a bar/restaurant in Scottsdale to catch the final innings, and first thing I said to my daughter is “the positive is we (the Giants) get Affeldt and Vogey back.
I’m ready to move on and looking forward to today’s game with Bummy on the bump. Split squad today, but I think the Giants will have the “A squad” against Dusty and Co. today. Chapman on the hill for the Reds.
It’s just fortunate there were no major injuries ( that I’m aware of, I paid very little attention to the Budster World of Nonsense ) . Expecting our players to be ready to play in a competitive, playoff-like atmosphere in March
is absurd. And now some numbskulls will declare that the winner of this farce is the “real’ World Series winner, ignoring that most of the best players in the tourney are AMERICANS, regardless of what country they are now representing.
Thank goodness that after this weekend our guys will be finished with this “diversion” and get back to joining their real teammates in getting ready for real World Class baseball…
As I indicated before, I could give a rat’s ass about this tournament. I am glad we are getting Affeldt and Vogey back as Chi indicated. Twin is spot on with regard to not wanting to see anyone hurt from our team (or any team for that matter). Believe me when I say that EVERY FLAPPER would be red assed if Pagan gets injured in this frickin’ tournament. Until he is back, I will hold my breath.
He is so key to our entire team being able to hit and run, steal bases, and play the type of game we did last year. With him – we can thrive, even without a big bopper in our lineup. Without him, we are a station to station team again ala 2011. Boring! More important – this means little or no chance of repeating for a playoff berth.
This weekend is probably my fav for watching college b-ball, when conference champ/semi games take place. Lot of hotly contested games, great atmosphere, regardless of what will happen to some of them next week in big dance.
Kind of surprised Dawkins is still in at Stanford, but regardless they are going to be good next year, esp if he has a decent recruiting class. But bloggers and alums are not going to be happy. Cal, which has to hope there aren’t any more upsets like long beach st. getting knocked out, is unlikely to get a seed higher than 10-12 if they get in. that leaves them a tough opener, and if they lose that means 3 Ls to close the season, and some grumbling (justified imo) about whether Monty has lost it, and if the type of kids he recruits can win.
HS norcal playoffs in Sac today, and a gal who helps me coach Asian rec league is in D 2 final from public school Lynbrook of san jose. also Sheldon of Sac is in open final, and they will send 2 top players to san diego st. next year to help SanDawg’s ‘Tecs.
New thread on my blog.
Breaking down the most interesting happenings from yesterday for Giants’ fans, Andres’ blast was significant even though it did come in the desert- it’s never been true that he was a fluke or that a penchant for the long ball hurt him after 2010- he simply had not had his legs under him since the series of injuries that landed on the DL multiple times in 2011/2012. *If* he has his legs back, forget it- he adds 5 games to our win total and the West becomes a one team race again.
Looking at the cuts, some may be surprised at Bond going down-they shouldn’t be. If a guy whose only value would be as a pinch hitter, they weren’t going to keep a slow singles hitter. My pick for the job, Noonan, had a better chance and has a good chance of coming up later, but the vets Valdez, Tanaka, and Abreu were always the favorites. Abreu has been a good minor league hitter (unlike Bond, with some pop), Tanaka has hit well in Japan and has been a GG defender at second base, and Valdez won’t hit much but he’s excellent defensively at SS and 2B as well. I think this gives the edge to Wilson although I wouldn’t be surprised if they were looking at the waiver wire here.
The back up catcher position now shows signs of being a traing camp battle with Quiroz, Williams, and Monell all in the running if Hector isn’t ready. Here the edge, IMO, is Quiroz who has the most experience and has some pop. If Hector is going to be out just a short time, I prefer Williams who is GG caliber behind the plate. For just a couple weeks, I’d value the defensive specialist..
The last pitcher’s spot is going Gaudin’s way for now, and the 5 OF spot looks to be down to Peguero and Gillespie. How they fare when facing the better pitchers the couple weeks will decide this. I expect both might go north for the Oakland series.
Gillespie has sucked at the wrong time. It’s Peguero easily
Peguero was my pick from the beginning, but there is still the real ST left, you know, the Seal Clubber’s time..
To Twin and Blade: neither of you have watched any games in the tournament. It’s been very entertaining. I’m not discounting either of your points, I actually agree with you.
But for those who have caught more than a snippet of a game, the WBC has been great fun to watch
I’m sure it’s been fun. But I’ve just been about funned out this spring, I like the leisurely pace of Spring Training. I do think it’s cool that Crazy Horse has had a fantastic tournament.,.
I totally agree, BF. I’ve enjoyed the tourney, and there’s still more to come. Your post said it well regarding the U.S. vs. the other nations. Bruce Jenkins wrote a column the other day saying basically the tourney would be better WITHOUT the U.S. in it. I’m not a big Jenkins fans, and I don’t even necessarily agree with him on this, but I see his point. There’s all this extra existential angst and baggage in the U.S. baseball media and fandom about the tourney, whereas for the other nations it’s all about trying to win the thing, and celebrate national pride.
I agree with all of you. Michael and Steve both make good points re: the injuries, but I have enjoyed what I have watched of the tourney.
The David Wright situation is basically the MLB teams’ nightmare about the WBC, although I have no idea if that was a previous injury from earlier in ST or from last year.
Zumie— I hadn’t read Jenkin’s article, but I tend to agree. Did you see the firestorm that erupted after the DR danced and celebrated their win over the US? Everyone thought the DR was “showing up” the US and no one stopped to realize that they are acting that way because it’s part of their culture. We get so US-centric that we forget there’s an entire world out there living life differently than us–and that definitely goes for baseball in Latin America.
I enjoyed watching their celebrations, it was a window into a culture I’ve never visited.
Agree 100% Flav.
I’ve started reading John Sexton’s book “Baseball as a Road to God,” and am liking it. I’m not sure the book has incredibly original insights into spirituality, so far; but the author does obviously have a huge love of baseball, and a strong sense of the history of baseball. The author calls the book his “love letter to baseball.”
The book is a nice companion piece to Pawlie’s books.
Jenkins is right on that the tounament is better without the US. And even if we don’t send a team, we shouldn’t allow our foreign born players to participate, certainly not with the series in March.
Jenkins is one of the best baseball writers in the country, BTW. Agreeing with everything a writer says should never be the criteria- he knows the game, is passionate about it, isn’t afraid to go out a limb, and writes well ( for a sportswriter). Plus he’s a very interesting man.
The Wilie Mays farewell speech DVD has been shipped, I should have it by mid-week. It’s termed a “loan” by Vanderbilt, who own the footage, so as soon I see what restrictions they have, I’ll come up with some way for all to view it, perhaps on SkyDrive.
tech challenges is probably not what this crew needs. 🙂 🙂 🙂
I’m going to take care of it. Those who can handle a couple mouse clicks should be able to view it.
Yeah but what about that meatloaf recipe?
Thank you for chasing this down, Michael. I do appreciate it.
I love my daughter and am blessed that she has true passion for the game. One of my only beefs is she drags a bit in the morning. I would prefer to be flowing through the gates of Scottsdale Stadium right now, but we’re a few minutes away from hitting the road.
Relax Papa~Bear….
I’m always happy to help Flappers, always have been. BTW, Cnet used to be a secure place to download software. No more- it’s one of the worst at secretly installing spy and adware on your PC, avoid it.
“Jenkins is one of the best baseball writers in the country”
I totally disagree, and those kinds of evaluations are completely subjective anyway. To each their own.
Of course it’s subjective. I shouldn’t have to say “IMO” every time I state my viewpoint, nor should anybody else- and they don’t.
It’ll be cool seeing the WBC move to AT&T Park. I am curious what the crowd sizes will be, though. Tickets were originally pretty pricey; I don’t know if there are any discounts going on.
Gettin’ AT&T Park ready:
“The outfield wall, usually green, is a brilliant blue with the four-color World Baseball Classic logo dotted across the wall. The logo is on the field, “World Baseball Classic” is painted in a semi-circle behind home plate, and the bunting that goes along with a big baseball event is the rainbow colors of the tournament. Workers were scrubbing down the seating area while flags of the nations in the tournament were placed around the outfield in preparation for pregame ceremonies.”
Bud Selig: “You won’t recognize baseball in a decade”…
I think Jenkins and Baggarly are both excellent writers. Obviously their jobs are different, and Baggarly’s still trying to establish himself–in a field that seems to be dispersing into the cloud. But for now he’s good. Jenkins takes a long view and develops what’s on his mind. (I can’t imagine him popping out tweet-sized comments.) His baseball and surfing stuff is always interesting and provocative. I have no idea whether he covers his other passions–basketball and tennis, in particular–as well, but his writing is skillful enough to con me into reading those columns too, at least from time to time. As to the rest of the Bay Area sports-press corps, Henry S. does pretty fair work. And imo he’s definitely the end of the short list.
It’s been mentioned that the Cardinals will watch the Giants get their rings this season; the same thing happened in 2011, and it actually worked out well for the Cards that season. In the opening series against the Cards in 2011, the Giants won some thrilling games; two of the games were won when Cardinal outfielders missed catchable balls. The two that hit the balls? Rowand and Tejada. Maybe that was some kind of weird cosmic sign that 2011 just wasn’t going to be the Giants’ year. And just like in 2011, the Giants will open on the road in L.A. This season it’s a 3-game series, in 2011 it was a 4-game series. The Giants started off in 2011 1-3 in that Dodger series.
The Giants go into 2013 knowing how difficult it can be to defend a title. They are a battle-tested group. They know that every season is a new season. It’s one of the main reasons we love baseball, and sports in general. No one knows what’s really going to happen.
No kidding?
No kidding, Nipper; but it’s still fun to make predictions. (grin)
btw, the WBC appears to be colluding with the IBAF (Int’l Baseball Federation). The IBAF has a “world championship” series every year, I believe, and many of the countries who have done well in this year’s WBC, including the Dutch, have done well over the years in the IBAF. Judging from the IBAF’s homepage, I think mlb clearly has made some sort of take-over deal with the IBAF. It’s a Selig-spurred multinational corporate merger in the works. Is that bad? In the grand scheme of things, not as bad as converting the NL to the DH.
Maybe witrh the Budster’s dream of a truly world wide game, there will finally be a home for the A’s. Kathmandu anyone?
There’s no upside in having your players participate in the WBC. That used to be true for the All-Star game as well, until they started giving the winning league home field advantage in the World Series, a rule change that has impacted the Giants’ fortunes significantly. If I was an owner, I’d prefer that only minor leaguers play in the WBC, and that my starting pitchers got a four day vacation during the AS break.
actually, I agree with you. if we aren’t going to send our cream of the crop we might as well send a fleet of Gary Brown’s……
If a local team were in the Little League World Series, I’d watch, but even if the US team was playing for the WBC title, I wouldn’t, unless I was given tickets to the game.
Listening to the game on the radio a while ago, Kruk busted off a pretty nice segment. It started by him talking about Lopez getting hurt throwing with his partner Bumgarner. Kruk then went on to talk about finding the *right* partner to play catch with. He started reeling off all the shitty guys he played catch with back in the day. Jim Barr never threw a ball above Kruk’s knees and often below them. He said he hated that, especially on days when his back was still. He said Vida Blue was terrible because of how hard he threw–said each throw was harder than the previous one and by the end of it you were just playing “dodgeball”. He said Ruscshel only threw sinkers that weighed about 15 pounds.
Flem goes, “Well, was there anyone you liked playing catch with?”
Kruk barely let’s him finish the sentence before saying, “Yeah, CaveMan, he was the best to play catch with.” (no reasoning given).
The last game I attended at Candlestick, Ryan Klesko was warming up in LF with John Rocker. I don’t know exactly what happened, maybe Rocker threw him a burner, but Klesko got up in his grill, and the two nearly came to blows.
Krukow is always loose and free-wheeling on the ST broadcasts. Couple years back, Jon Miller got him going on the delights of intimate ST ballparks. Krukow said he loved hearing the beer and peanut vendors, and so forth, so close to the dugout or mound. Then he launched into imitations of his ST favorites, going back to the 70s, and he was good, shaping his tone and rhythm to match the particular pitch. Miller’s admiration for both his memory and his delivery was evident.
The only time I’ve heard Krukow cut loose like that during the regular season was the first time Carlos Santana showed up at China Basin. He was a like a kid who’d just met his favorite rock-star hero.
Kruk was one of the delights of the parade last year. He looked every bit the North Beach Beat poet. He and and Kuiper are a good duo.
Rocker was fun…
Who told the story about taunting Rocker outside of the Oakland Coliseum, and much to their horror Rocker started running towards them and they took off running away from him? I remember that story being told at the Flap, I think.
Oh, yeah. Racist sociopaths are always a hoot.
In Giants’ news, Ramon Ramirez is rapidly falling of the picture for the last reliever spot, I think Gaudin will need to go feet up to lose it…Monell had a rough day behind the plate….MadBum with another good outing…Duvall is going to bear watching in AA, see if they give him an OFers glove..
The Giants vs. the Reds on Comcast Sports tonight. I like the Giants’ chances!
Flavor: I have been a cheerleader for the WBC ever since the preliminaries back in 2012.
I knew if you guys gave it a chance you’d end up enjoying it: seeing baseball is good enough but seeing baseball played internationally is great. A little college level for most of the talent, but the love of the game by teams like Canada, Israel, Italy, etc is contagious.
Edd– I vaguely remember that cheerleading for the WBC. I’m still consumed with your epic Olympic updates. 🙂
And you could be a little bit more active at the BBOTD page. I like your stuff. Just sayin’.
I did get totally consumed by the Olympics and couldl do nothing but enjoy what I was doing, watching, enjoying. the crowds and people watching consumed my time, too.