Replacing Ryan Vogelsong
Anyone want to change their vote in yesterday’s poll?
Voggy’s WAR for the year is -0.6 so doesn’t that technically mean he’d be super easy to replace? Just pull something off the scrap heap in Frez-NO and we’re good to go? Well, it’s probably not as easy as WAR would have you believe.
Anyway, here are the stats from the starters in Frez-NO:
Underwhelming. Heston and Kickham have potential but they clearly aren’t harnessing it in Fresno yet and the other 3 guys suck.
And now for a look at Double A:
Fitzgerald is having a nice year and I like the K-totals but he’s from the 2008 draft and he’s probably just hoping to one day be AAA roster filler material.
Not that they’d go there, but here is what’s going on in SanHo:
There are a few other pitchers who had a start here or there but basically, this is it.
Unless we want to see The Chad Gaudin Show– it’s one of those *alternative ending* movies that I don’t recommend any of us watch….
Here are the free agent pitchers listed by mlbtraderumors.com:
I think Pavano is still in intensive care following his spleen surgery and Jamie Moyer might have passed on due to natural causes….
Brad Penny anyone? I might roll with that just to get a look at how fat he’s gotten…..
Maybe a trade? Does Sabean have the Astros phone number? Bud Norris?
The thing to remember is that Voggy is our #5. On almost all teams, the #5 is expected to suck. In fact, no where but within the SF fan base is there more deliberate discussion, panty-bunching and hand wringing about the state of our #5 pitcher—Zito a few years ago, Lincecum last year and Voggy this year.
Another thought: this isn’t about filling a 6 week gap. Voggy has been terrible this year and the fact that he breaks his hand during his single good start of the year is a sign pointing to this just not being his year. The flip side is that a lot of people thought he had a tired arm from the extended 2012 season and then the WBC. So maybe the break (pun intended) will be good for him.
But just in case, I’m preparing myself to tolerate what almost every other team in the league has to put up with every 5th start:
pain.
A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball 
I went to bed early last night and read the rest of the comments just now. One comment was especially informative, where Chico said, “@nicolevogelsongRyan has a dislocated joint in the pinky finger of his pitching hand. It’s broken above & below finger. Surgery tomorrow, out 6 weeks.” This is great news (sort of)! Not certain exactly what impact a “pinky” has on a baseball, but if Mordecai 3 finger Brown can win 239 games; and Ronnie Lott can chop off his finger and play All Pro cornerback, then Ryan should have no problem with a fractured pinky finger.
Also, a mea culpa from me regarding Ryan’s effort last night, which was outstanding up to the point of being injured. Frankly, I was one of those Flappers that thought Ryan was DONE, PUT A FORK IN HIM. Apparently, there is hope when he returns. We shall see . . .
what happened to Wolf anyway? Seemed way above sucktiude, if overpaid by Brewers (last team?)
If you were to bring up one of the kids such as Kickham, would he automatically go back down regardless of ow he did? Usually the new and unknown SP has an advantage at least for a while (3-4 starts maybe) over hitters who have never seen the guy, right? Maybe they get a good look at the kid with an eye to next year, when the back end of rotation could be quite different and hopefully eat up less payroll.
Machi is back up and he can also fill in long role if necessary, and I agree Gaudin is likely fine right where he is…emergency start only. Hey, if SF offense can continue to produce, then you put a little on them to score enough runs and play well enough defensively for the #5 guy to win, no matter who it is. Giants responded pretty well to adversity last year when they were supposed to whither and die without Melk.
I’m guessing it’s going to be a RHer to keep the RLRLR thing going. If they want to keep Gaudin in the role he’s in, I’m thinking they’ll go with Heston over Loux.
Listening to the Apple guy Cook and his “we haven’t done anything wrong” excuses points up what’s wrong with America to me. Apple takes advantage of the banking system and tax codes with their army of accountants and legal team to avoid remunerating largest part of its tremendous profits back into the economy, and it’s all perfectly legal and aboveboard. All the while operating factories like FoxConn. And then you have the Rand Pauls of the world who don’t want to question anything they do and paint them as the ultimate “only in America” type of success story. Disgusting. Sorry for taking things in wrong direction here but this is a theme that goes way back, and was endemic in the development of our great state of Calif 100 yrs ago too.
And no, I don’t own any of their products.
The rant should be directed at our Congress. They made the tax laws, they passed the tax treaties that are used, legally. This is a “show trial”, grandstanding at its finest, by Congress. “How dare you, Apple, use all the tax laws we made (and your lobbyists wrote for us) to your best advantage, after you and the rest of corporate America gave us all that campaign money to do your bidding! Shocking, just shocking!” Apple has well over $100 billion in cash essentially parked outside the US from overseas operations. Since it cannot bring that money back into the US without paying a substantial inbound US income tax, it just went out into the bond market and sold $17 billion in corporate bonds at a meager 3% interest rate to raise cash it DOES NOT NEED. Now, it plans to use that cash to pay dividends to shareholders to keep up its stock price, since it cannot maintain the revenue/income growth seen in the last five years. Meanwhile, it can deduct that bond interest against its US tax liability. Crazy, legal, and a microcosm of what is wrong with our country and our government…
It’s not illegal, but it’s morally wrong. . Congress is grandstanding – I got a better idea, fix the loopholes!
My preference is Kickham, he has much better stuff than Heston and is pitching very well. I don’t hear much talk about Loux, and as I posted last night, he’s not exactly an inspring choice. But if it looks to be just 4 to 6 starts, I could see them going that way.
Been busy as hell…didn’t get on the Flap for a couple of days. Just looking at the thread headline yesterday without reading any of the 150+ comments, I am (and was…even now with the news on Vogey) a 1. Hey, it is a long-ass season. Remember last year the Giants had a couple of stretches of sucktitude (I think they had a 1-5 trip that I know included the Nats and maybe Cincy). Who it was is irrelevant…point is, that shit happens over the course of 162.
I would keep Gaudin in the pen. With the starters all being shaky off-and-on (Bumgarner being the exception to some degree), they need an arm who can spot a starter and chew-up 3 innings or so. He is THAT GUY.
I heard the post-game discussions on Kickham. While his overall numbers don’t look great. He allowed an unearned run in his last start (six innings) with 8 Ks. Over his last four starts he is 2-1 with a 1.80 ERA (25-6 K-to-BB ratio).
So, if they want to preserve the R-L-R-L-R thing, then Loux would be my choice. He has been up this year, although his numbers are not great. 19 games (no starts) 25.1 innings. 4.97 ERA and 1.618 WHIP.
They have some time before they have to make a decision (off day on Thursday helps).
Whoever it is…I am more inclined to see someone up from Fresneck, and to leave Gaudin in the pen.
Loux has a fair amount of mlb experience. Of course, that cuts both ways for him, doesn’t it? I won’t be surprised to see him get a shot and I won’t be surprised to see him get replaced very quickly. Pain, indeed.
At to Vogelsong’s fracture, even the best PT can’t eliminate all of the stiffness and pain that hatch when the cast comes off. If a cracked fingernail or a blister can shut down a pitcher, lingering soreness in the pitching hand can too. Rehab will take a while. The only good news is that Vogelsong’s WBC adventure earlier this year is now irrelevant. His arm should be plenty rested when he gets back.
Time for the other starters to start pitching. Tonight’s game looks interesting. I’ll be there. My seats will be well protected against the howling west wind predicted for the evening (near-gale force gusts). Cain, of course, is a flyball pitcher–upwards of 40% of batted balls against him rise high up into that jet stream. Most seasons fairly few of those left the park (rates range from 4% to 8% over the years). This year, however, his HR/FB rate is more than 18%. So if we’re going to look beyond the five, tonight’s a good time for the ace to show up. Sure would be fun to see Strasburg’s FBs sail over the fence while Cain’s only reach the track. Sure would be.
The other point on Vogey…a couple said (Blue on the post-game) and others, that the positive in the broken bones in the hand are that they are on the pinky…and I heard the term a couple of times that in throwing a pitch…the pinky is basically “just along for the ride.”
I tend to lean towards Xoot’s prediction…Loux will get the call…he’ll get knocked-around some, and they’ll make a change before Vogey is ready to go.
Going to be a tough stretch coming up. After the Nats they have the Rox (the happy confines of AT&T hopefully help and they kick the living shit out of them). Then you have four against the A’s (two-two), three on the road in St. Louis, and then back home for redemption on the Jays (strange to go to St. Louis and then back home). Then a nine-game roadie that includes the Snakes.
If Loux gets the call and gets knocked around, it’s Xoot’s call. If he surprises and pitches well, I’ll take it 😉
Although they lost the game, one of the more memorable HRs of the 2010 season was Vungo’s off of Strasburg- it might even been the first pitch of the game and it was a monster. It would be the only run Starasburg would give up as the Nats rocked Cain ( in D.C .) but it had a :”Welcome to the bigs, kid” look about it.
I remember that hit well, it was a BOMB, too.
This would not happen in the AL. Need I say more?
No, Nip. I think you made your point: NL baseball is more challenging, more dramatic, less predictable and ultimately far more gratifying than is baseball as played in the Arena League. Well done.
Arena League…that’s good. Also affectionately referred to as “The Junior Circuit.”
Pitchers don’t get hit by line drives in the AL, Nip?
Great post, BF. The mix of humor and information is awesome.
The wheels in Sabean’s mind are spinning at this very moment….
I agree, Zumiee. Good stuff and purely entertaining amid the gloom! Carry on! Stay calm. As you were, mate!
Something else cool about last night was watching the shut down inning by Casilla that included a giants pitcher making a stab on a one hopper and an accurate throw to SS to get a DP started on a hitter than can run like Denard Span.
Casilla hasn’t thrown much coming off injury and if he gets back on track is a R alternative to the times Romo does get a lot of work and needs a day or two off.
Have fun xoot…it’s always a trip to watch night games like last night at ATT and see everyone all bundled up. South bay yesterday was high 80s, and as game ended i’m in shorts and no shirt, with two ceiling fans going in apt. and a/c blower on.
You guys have it covered. I also say give Kickham a shot. He would easily be the most compelling of the bunch.
One thing I hadn’t thought about in calling someone up from Fresno, is the whole starting of the FA clock. If that’s an issue, I’d say it’s Boof or Shane and pray for rain.
I don’t think that’s ever an issue with the g’s.
I say, bring on Terry Mullholland.
Our pitchers have had trouble throwing the ball after they field grounders. He knows the solution..
From Baggs: “SFGiants moves: Casilla DL. Vogelsong DL. Pill recalled. Rosario recalled.”
I did not see that coming.
And from Pav: “Rosario could slide into a long reliever role if the Giants move Chad Gaudin to the rotation; his last 10 appearances include five that lasted 1 2/3 innings or longer.”
Looks like they’ll probably be using those off-days to maximum effect.
Well there you have it. The answer to today’s question is, None of the Above.
That’s why Sabean is the GM and we’re Flappers. 🙂
The five spot doesn’t come up again until Sunday, with an off day thursday. But I agree–they won’t skip to Cain on “regular” rest. (After all, he’s going to go deep tonight.) They’ll gladly take the off days. So sounds like Gaudin’s going to get the first shot at the five job. Gotta go with Bochy’s call, even though Gaudin doesn’t really inspire. The inside reports on Loux may be really bad . . . .
They also have to judge the choices: Colorado at AT&T Park, or Oakland at the Coluseum. It’s an interesting choice.
Well, Gaudin has looked like a new pitcher as a reliever, hope it carries over if he’s the guy. Rosario? Maybe they like his his efficiency- 1/3 inning one well deserved win 😉
Gaudin’s last big league starts were in NY(Yanks) and San Diego in 2009.He was a combined 5-10 4.76 1.5 WHIP. He’s started in the minors since then-in 2011 with little success.Like someone else said, maybe Rags and Bochy have worked their magic on him.
What’s wrong with Casilla?
I sort of miss Mota. He may not have attracted a lot of glitzy attention, but he sure gave us some good innings. Not always. But often. Reliably. And what is Brian Wilson up to these days? (Probably 4 a.m. Don’t you fully expect him to show up on “Duck Dynasty”?)
Maybe nothing is wrong with Casilla.
Being injured is required to go onto the DL?…
Janie McCauley just Tweeted that Kickham is “in the mix” for promotion, according to Bochy.
All teams seem to use mysterious injuries to put a player on the DL for a while. But, Casilla has been battling a cyst on his knee-cap and was wearing a brace for it. My guess is that it just wasn’t healing and needed some rest. It was mentioned in one of the articles I read where he got very little work recently, and the thought was that the cyst/knee were the reasons.
BF’s nice lists should call danger signals to Giants fans for next year. There’s basically scraps in the starting pitching cupboard in the high minors to replace one or two starters in this rotation. The prospects are in the low minors, and not close to being ready next year for prime time. Seems to me some position players will be traded later this year or in the off season for a starter, or some FA(s) will be coming in here to replace Tim and/or Voggy…
Snarkk is worried!
I would say “concerned” is more appropriate, especially with two, recent WS titles in the bank.
“Worried” is when the Nippy van blows a head gasket…
I may be at the that game Sunday when Starter X makes his debut. I’ll be in town for my son’s grad ceremony at SFSU. Larry Baer is the commencement speaker, which is kind of cool. My son graduates almost 25 years to the day after I graduated from THE San Diego State University. Our speaker was Peter Ueberroth. 25 years before that, JFK himself was the commencement speaker at SDSU–just a few months before his assassination.
Anyone have a feel for when StubHub tickets start to dip down in price? Those Sunday tix are expensive as hell and its Zito bobblehead day–which pisses me off. I can’t stand bobbleheads and I’m lukewarm on Zito. All those giveaways do is drive up the prices for guys like me who just want to see a freaking game.
I’m one of the few who likes the “quality start” stat. I thought Vogey was gonna get himself one last night and then he breaks his hand. After 9 rounds through the rotation, here are our quality start ratios:
Bum 6/9
Cain 5/9
Zits 4/9
Tim 3/9
Vogletron 1/9
ps WIllieD–I loved your Apple rant, and I already have U of A penciled in to the Final 4 next year.
It was not quite like calling a perfecto but I predicted a quality start for Vogie last night and the ungrateful bastard breaks his hand one inning short…and HE gets all the sympathy. He’s gonna have a better time at home than he would pitching anyway.
I would go with Kickham for a few starts.See how he does.No rush for Sabes to go out yet and look for a starter.
And ferchrissakes Jamie Moyer????
I would bring Nolan Ryan or Randy Johnson back first.Though I would go Moyer over Wellenmeyer in a heartbeat.
Super Bowl L site confirmed for 2016. That’s SB 50 for you non-Romans.
Coming to Santa Clara/San Jose/San Francisco…
Sweet! Good for the local economy.
We have done closer by committee,why not 5th starter by committee?
Juan Marichal for 2,Randy Johnson for 3,Bob Gibson for 3,close it out with Lee Smith..
Schilling could use the money.
Murph says no. Too much trouble to wash bloody socks…
Or dyed ones.
Really the best solution to replace Voggy is every 5th day all Flappers just drink a 5th of their favorite spirits!!!
I prefer 1/5 of a fifth every start.
I don’t play favorites with the starters… 😉
Yeah that works too Snarkk, although when we had Rohand &Wellcrapper I was drinking a bigger bottle of booze most of the time. 🙂
I’ll admit, “Wellcrapper” required some extra fortificational refreshment. Trouble was, you had to drink fast, since he didn’t last long…
Put this in the “thinking outside the box” folder . . . Before I comment, note what Snarkk said, “There’s basically scraps in the starting pitching cupboard in the high minors to replace one or two starters in this rotation.” He goes onto to say, “Seems to me some position players will be traded later this year or in the off season for a starter, or some FA(s) will be coming in here to replace Tim and/or Voggy…”
WHY FUCKING WAIT?
There are many pitchers right now in MLB that have plunging “stock prices,” but nevertheless are intriguing to me. For example, Scott Kazmir’s – Per ESPN, “has now followed up two straight quality starts with two bad starts in which he has allowed nine runs over eight innings and only recorded five strikeouts. His season numbers are not good as he now has a 6.35 ERA and 1.62 WHIP.”
Yet . . .
His fastball is nearly back to its old levels, sitting at 92-94 and topping out at 96. In the two early season quality starts, the one-time AL strikeout leader notched 17 punchouts in 12 innings. He is in the AL with Cleveland, so a trade possibility would be enhanced due to not having repercussions in our division/league or theirs.
Here’s another . . . Jeremy Hellickson has been up and down all season. Mostly down. Way down. However, he has two quality starts against the Oakland A’s (1-0 shutout on April 20th) and Boston Red Sox (2-3 loss with 9 SOs on April 15th), where he really dominated them. He has 46 punch outs in 55 innings.
There are other pitchers with disastrous results thus far this season, but have peripherals which are attractive, i.e., diamonds hiding in a chunk of coal. Wait and they may turn into those diamonds before season’s end and there will be no chance to trade for them without giving up a lot in return. Just sayin’ . . .
Blade, my reaction: IF a team has a starter who has shown promise and is “cheap”, they won’t be willing to unload them for a song this early in the season, unless the offer is too good to pass up. And now with Vogey down, the price for Snerd Knutless just went up.
I didn’t say “cheap.” The Giants will have to pay something amigo. You don’t get something for nothing. I am just saying that you might be able to reduce the “pain,” by getting someone who’s stock is down at the moment. If you think anyone on our position roster (other than Posey or Panda) is going to bring a number 1 or 2 pitching arm, you’re mistaken. However, there might be a few diamonds in the rough that we might be able to acquire (and I am not saying it has to be the two I mentioned), where the cost would be reasonable. Snarkk’s point about a trade will become more important as time goes on, especially since Lincecum’s contract will expire by the end of the year. Pay now or pay later (and much more) if we wait in my opinion.
You brought up Kazmir and Hellickson, both making nothing. That’s what I was referring to with ‘cheap”. Of course it will cost them, either by taking on an expiring fat contract or by giving up on a some promsing prospects.
Pawlie have a cracker???? Hey amigo, I sent you an ESPN Blade certified guaranteed to work trade proposal. Check your messages dude. 🙂
Was out. Girls’ lacrosse sectionals. Then the field was cleared because of lightning. I rejected it. Can’t even tell you why. Maybe I’m a moron. But I’m okay with that.
I will be very surprised if Sabes and crew are not wheeling and dealing before the trade deadline for an arm or two. I believe Pill is a shining example of the types of players the Giants may offer. Will be interesting…Zito and Vogey have club options (Zito’s could vest if certain milestones are met), and Timmy is a FA come year’s-end, meaning only MadBum and Cainer are locked-up long term. I think the guys who are being looked at to come-up and fill the gap (Kickham, Heston, etc.) won’t be ready for the rotation come next year. You can almost guarantee it that there will be changes…
Yes, change will come IMO. I agree with most of what you said Chi.
Voggy should be just coming out of rehab 2 or 3 weeks before the end-July deadline. That’s not a lotta time for the Sabestrust to decide on a coupla starts whether he’ll have it together the rest of the season. Agree with the general tone above that the trade deadline time will be interesting — this year from a starter perspective…
1. Angel Pagan (S) CF
2. Marco Scutaro (R) 2B
3. Pablo Sandoval (S) 3B
4. Buster Posey (R) C
5. Hunter Pence (R) RF
6. Brandon Belt (L) 1B
7. Gregor Blanco (L) LF
8. Brandon Crawford (L) SS
9. Matt Cain (R) P
I’m shocked that Belt is in there tonight.
He only went 4 for 4 last night with a Bondsian dinger. Pill is up from Fresno, he’ll be at the ready should Belt only go 2 for 4 tonite…
Actually, he was 4 for 5 with the last AB a drive to the warning track in left center…he’s already slumping 😉
Well, it is *somewhat* refreshing to hear panic about the pitching for a change. As always, though, the panic is premature. .As far as trading now- sellers want multiple buyers competing for their guy and that ain’t happening this early. Sabes would be going hat in hand and the inevitable result_ you get your hat handed to you. You pay for a 2 to get a 5. Patience, grasshoppers 😉
You said it better and more succinctly than I ..
I agree with Blade’s comment above (“why fucking wait?”). I understand all the yatta yatta about teams not feeling out of it, not wanting to irritate the fan base, etc….
But Sabean has acted quickly before, most notably the last couple of off seasons. And if Sabes and Bochy do the math, it’s not like they get to plug Voggy right back into the rotation 6 weeks from today and have him pick up right where he left off (in this last, single game that he pitched well).
Besides, with the rotation problems we have had all year, trading for someone NOW is the way to go with this. I’ll use Bud Norris as an example— one way or the other, if Voggy comes back strong or not, Bud Norris will be integral to the success or failure of the team this year.
And for a team like the Astros, he’s a perfect May target. Throw Crick, Bond and Blackburn at the Astros, they’d gobble that up in a nano-second. Norris is making 3 mil this year (nothing to us but everything to the (L)astros and he’s controlled through 2015.
OK, fire away!
Exactly. Good post.
Crick, Bond, and Blackburn? Who cares about Bond but Crick and Blackburn? They’d better get a hell of a lot more than Norris. Geez.
According to many top ten prospect lists, those are our top two prospects. For BUD NORRIS?????? Come on Loo, ,what did you do to with Craig? Let him go and we’ll meet all your demands 😉
It’s the concept of “if you don’t want to wait around to have to compete, pay more now.”
And Bud Norris is a very good young pitcher (though inconsistent). And don’t look at his win totals, leave that to Yogi. If you play for Houston, you don’t get wins. On a good team he’d be a K-machine and probably would turn into our #3 this year. And we wouldn’t just get him for half a year it would be 2.5 seasons.
Blackburn or Crick turning into a *Bud Norris* at the mlb level is a longshot, at best……
One other thing – should the Giants not make a move immediately doesn’t mean shit insofar as what I am saying. Know why? Because none of us know what the fuck is going on behind closed doors in Sabean’s office and his key personnel. In effect, him and his staff are crunching numbers and possibilities every day and contacting other GMs around the league frequently to investigate what “if” . . .
In short, I don’t want to hear fucking bullshit – but probably will – about Steve was wrong only because it didn’t happen. Sabes, et. al., are burning the mid night oil as we speak . . . Would you expect anything different? If you do, then you’re brain dead in my opinion. I think what I suggested is GOING ON EVERY FRICKIN’ DAY AND THE FACT WE DON’T KNOW ABOUT IT, DOESN’T MEAN SHIT.
Why are you so het up?
Absolutely nothing. Even your dismissive and inaccurate comment, ‘Well, it is *somewhat* refreshing to hear panic about the pitching for a change. As always, though, the panic is premature.” I don’t panic Mike. Ever.
I suggested that the Giants are also not panicking as well. They are looking at all possibilities, not just the minor league ones you suggested.
I wasn’t even replying to you. But the panic point is valid. It happens every year. And I talk the jumpers down every year. You have no reason to be jumping on me, so be so kind to knock it off.
It’s what you would offer that’s insane.
In less civilized times, Sabean would be drawn and quartered for that deal. And don’t compare me to John of Walnut Creek even by inference. .
“Norris hasn’t been doing much for his trade value thus far in 2013. Norris has a 4.32 ERA, 5.9 K/9, 3.2 BB/9 and only a 38.8% ground ball rate through his first nine starts. He is also facing some injury uncertainty, as the righty left his most recent start with back spasms. While Norris is the Astros’ nominal ace, he would receive a trade return befitting a fourth or fifth starter, so Houston might feel like Norris has more short-term value to them on the mound than he would as trade bait.”
They could get him for FAR less than your offer.
Tim Alderson was our 2nd rated pitching prospect or so (maybe third) when he was traded for Freddy Sanchez. The fact that Crick and Blackburn are our 1/2 rated prospects doesn’t mean they’re valued that highly by other teams. And it doesn’t mean they’ll do shit in their mlb careers.
I value Norris more highly than the cut and paste job you provided.
I could certainly see leaving one of them out of the deal. But Norris is going to be expensive, book it. He’s a very good young pitcher who’s on a shitty team who is controllable through 2015.
Absolutely nothing in his career merits the offer you’re suggesting. And in my opinion he won’t get anything like it. Jayson Stark thinks he profiles more as a reliever on a contender. I could see Norris on our staff, but not for your deal or anything close.
noted.
very cool article about *one of our own* who had the brains to open his mind and think a little. I’m always guarded around super religious people because they go into robotic-mode whenever it’s time to render a personal opinion (and if it’s related to sexuality it’s often over-the-top in its intensity). Anyway, welcome to the rest of the world Affeldt, we’re happy to have you:
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/affeldt-grown-love-open-minded-200531615–mlb.html
Yes, this article is excellent and also reminded me (I had forgotten) that he was part of the so-called “God Squad” on the Rockies. It was suggested 7-8 years ago that this was the reason the Rockies lost (having too many church-going players). Which is ridiculous and was dismissed back then as it should have been. Glad to see that Affeldt has had a change of heart.
Affeldt is worth a thread, a very interesting man. And as LH relievers go, a model of consistency.
I’m not a religious person, but I do read his blog from time to time. . http://jeremyaffeldt.wordpress.com/
Agree about the whole born-again thing, can be pretty annoying when born-agains get on their soap boxes… but Affeldt seems different and actually open-minded. That’s all I would like to see super-religious folks be, just a bit more open-minded. IMO, Affeldt has come near to being a *great Giant* in his time here. Unusual for relievers to stay with teams for the long-term. His stint in the deciding game against Philly in 2010 — shutting down the Phils when the game was threatening to blow up — was classic. His continued performance since then has only cemented his tenure here.
Remember a handful of years ago when a lot of discussions here and elsewhere were about how the team couldn’t get good free agents because “nobody” wanted to come play in SF? That has certainly changed over the last few years.
Dravecky was also a “God Squad” guy in San Diego, a group led by Eric Show, if I recall. But even before Dave’s terrible misfortune here, he was a fan favorite. I think it’s fair to say that we ( as in the Bay Area) have also become more tolerant ourselves. In this case more tolerant of people of deep faith.
my attitude towards *God Squad* people in general hasn’t changed– I am guarded around them and when their intolerance is unearthed I dislike them for their short-sighted, robotic small mindedness. But I definitely have my biases (just like they do) and the story on Affeldt was refreshing and, to me, unexpected. I always saw his public side, seemed like a cool dude, great speaker, etc. But the Christian-thing always had me pause. The fact that he’s a Giant made today’s revelation all the more enjoyable. I’m going to buy his book.
Sorry, but I still find Affeldt lacking in that article. He’s gone from believing gay people were going to attack him or something, to believing gay people are OK, even though they’re morally wrong. He’s made some progress, but has a long way to go, IMO.
and I agree with that too, Zumie. But most of the Christian right never consider any other side, any other opinion, regardless of evidence that makes them look like fools. Affeldt considered the evidence (in this case, “living among them”) and he changed his mind or at least some of the beliefs he once held.
Changing a mind is a hard thing to do……
And I see your point, too, I just think in the article he’s going into “love the sinner, hate the sin” mode, and that philosophy bothers gay people, because they don’t believe it, the way Fundamentalists try to use it in regards to them. They don’t feel loved by Affeldt if he says their sexual orientation is morally wrong, and they don’t believe they’re morally wrong, nor should they.
I’m not gay, but I have a few gay friends, and have an idea how they feel about some of these things.
Having said that, I want to get Affeldt’s book. I think there’s obviously a lot of positive things about Affeldt, too.
There’s also sometimes a difference between what my parents always called “real Christians” and the born-agains. Of course, my parents were “real Christians”, born into it the first time, not born again, so they would often exhibit a bit of disgust with born-agains and their posturing. At least Affeldt does display some sense of open-mindedness and admitting he was wrong.
Anyway. Must be a boring game so far… 🙂
And Paul, I’m glad you said that. It’s a critical point. When I read “born again” I go read something else…
Yeah, agree, Craig. Since Christians generally seem to believe that we humans are “born into sin”, does that mean born-agains have double the sins they’re born into? Maybe that’s why they try so hard… ;-p
I guess I prefer The Shooter’s moral compass.
Disappointing comment but not unexpected. Keep ’em comin’ and keep ’em within the blog guidelines (as this one was )
? I was referring to Beck’ support of “Until There’s A Cure Day”
Sorry, it sounded sarcastic. My apologies
Well, I’m not a religious man at all and I find excessive proselytizing very off putting. But I can respect a person’s beliefs without agreeing with them as long their beliefs don’t advocate harm to others. But my goodness, we all have a long way to go.
Re: Affeldt, it’s just refreshing to see a former free agent happy to be playing at China Basin. “People don’t want to come here” is a thing of the past.
Nice job to get out of that inning without damage…
I’m sure few are interested in this, but if you want to check out a “Bud Norris” start and see why its frustrating to be Bud Norris, see the Astros box score for tonight….
He will be a solid addition for any team who pays to get him before the break
That video of Harper hitting the wall never gets old.
Never. Ha. Ever.
Where’s Pawlie?? We score, we win?
Cain has seen this a time or two in his career. (grin)
Yes he has. Well, the “ace” often gets aligned with the other team’s ace… At the end of his career, Cain’s stats probably won’t look great (won-loss, anyway). But for those of us who know him as the Horse, nothing but appreciation…
as SpongeBob says without end: I’M READY, I’M READY.
Still would love to see the G’s get something off Strasburg. I actually have come to really dislike the Nationals. Agree about the video of Harper. Ever since watching the games in DC last July, watching the Nats’ telecast while visiting my folks, dismal showing as it was by the G’s, and the Nats’ announcers were laughing at the Giants and mocking them, and already booking their tix to the World Series. Screw them…
Man, that was a dreadful series. I remember on July 4 they played at 11 a.m. I think they hit 3 homers off us by 11:20. Then we wilted at the games I attended in Pittsburgh. BUT GUESS WHAT, BOYS AND GIRLS? WE WON THE WORLD FECKING SERIES ANYWAY.
Thanks for the Affeldt article. I liked it, especially his integrity about not accepting $500,000 that he believed was not his. How many of us would do that? Would I do that? Easy to dismiss it, and say he’s a millionaire. But it sure made me examine my values and actions.
True about Harper’s unsuccessful attempt to get to heaven the quick way.
There have been only two Giants that I’ve disliked over the years, I mean really disliked. There has been many “God Squad” guys but the two I dislike have been Dave Dravecky, a member of the John Birch society and Brett Butler, what was his quote on his radio show, “The devil has our bats”? He was also born to be a Dodger. Fuck em both, IMO.
In my high school years, I campaigned for Barry Goldwater (so did Hillary Rodham) and hung around with some Birchers. “None Dare Call It Treason” was our guidebook. Went to a talk by Paul Harvey — talk about creepy and paranoiac. But I also campaigned for George McGovern. Looking back, a lot of it was rebellion against my labor union, lifelong Democrat dad. But even then, while in the seminary, I was theologically progressive and not at all fundamentalist. And baseball was ALWAYS its own True Religion, as it were.
And Bobby Kennedy (who I happen to have/had huge respect for) was part of the McCarthy trials. I’m not sure of your point Pawlie. Is it that people can change? I have no respect for Dravecky, now or when he pitched for us. None. I include the other John Birch pitchers from San Diego. Now Butler, I just never liked (come on, the man sued Brett Butler, the comedian, because she had the same name and he didn’t like her topics of comedy), but for him to blame the devil on a hitting drought, fucking weak in my books.
Sorry, like I said, those are the only two Giants that I can think of that I disliked.
never heard that story about Brett (he) versus Brett (she). what a wanker, bornadoger? fergitem
Boohoo. Greinke and the LaLas lost. Again.
What’s up with Strasburg? That kid needs some schooling.
It bothered me when Stras was in ‘Cuse — I saw him three times at least, pretty sure — never tipped his cap to the cheering crowd when he finished, whether it was 6 or 7 innings or what. He seemed to lack decorum.
You just know we can win this.
I heard one of those Pittsburgh away games last year while we were driving back from Jack London State Park. I remember it as a snapshot in time. That Wash./Pitt. roadtrip for the Giants was a tough crucible the team went through. The type of thing that makes the championship basking all the sweeter.
Cain pitches a beauty; we have got to get some runs for the horse
Denny, turning in his grave, but ROMO doing fine.
I have admit that I didn’t know that Dravecky maintained his John Birch Society membership. That definitely changes how I think of him. Or I’ll just not think of him.
Cmon Belt just pretend its Az.
wake up, neighbours, it is time for some FAN NOISE!!
just invented the white shark dance
it ties you up
WOO HOO!
I love it, ed.
Bochy bullpen brilliance
totally do-able
Go gigantes!
Extra innings, kiddies
Harper looked a little shy– he probably sees fences that have license plates with his name on them,
ouch.
Something about that video makes me think of Wile Coyote.
🙂
Let’s take em down now.
Lets do this!
Marco come home, all is forgiven
PABLO!!!!!!
Hell yes. Panda.
PABLOOOOOOOOOO!
Great game! Cheers, flappers!