A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball

I Have a Giant Dukkha

Posted in Uncategorized by Flavor on June 1, 2013

This thread is written by Edd. I don’t understand the title either. πŸ™‚

 

As most of you know, I am mainly a fan, the minutia of insider understandings or statistical solutions are a bridge too far for this Giants’ fan, a Polly Anna fan that loves this team and this game. I do know baseball fairly well with decent gut feeling (can I self-promote by saying I am reigning champion of the Flap Fantasy League?). Mostly I get great satisfaction out of watching my team play. For the last 3 years there has been wonderful surprises in watching this team win-win-win; most recently the inside-the-park home run win by Angel Pa-Gone. Basking can be had by all.

With a great manager and some crafty moves by the front office I have a team that can win, especially when that team is firing on all cylinders. The complete domination of Detroit during the 2012 World Serious proved that they can beat any team anywhere.

But for the last recent weeks (my god, it’s been going on for too long now) those cylinders have been going phut. Spark-plugs (hitting), errors (timing), delivery (the petrol of pitching) and a general in-cohesiveness makes this team play like Houston on a bad night. And yet, my heart and hope clings to the thought that this is truly an anomaly; still the same team, like cream, ready to rise to the top.

Today we are in the Archway City playing a disdained rival who wants our ass and may well feed it to us. This year I feared the Braves more, but, thanks to the Upton brothers, Saint Louie may be the team I would really love to beat.

Yadda, yadda, it is only one series, what the fuck is up with Cain, how many errors can a good fielding team make, where do we go from here? If ever there was a miracle additive that could make those cylinders fire all at once I want to see it now.

151 Responses

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  1. eddacker's avatar eddacker said, on June 1, 2013 at 7:58 am

    I had hoped this would free up some Big Flavor time to give us some fresh eye-candy?
    maybe I should do a poll?

  2. twinfan1's avatar twinfan1 said, on June 1, 2013 at 8:14 am

    Unless one believes that this team can actually play worse than it has, I’d look at it this way: we’re midway through the second quarter, we’re shooting 31 percent, we’ve made 14 turnovers, we’ve been out rebounded, and we’re just down 3..

    • eddacker's avatar eddacker said, on June 1, 2013 at 9:28 am

      I can live with that; good points all of them

    • James's avatar James said, on June 1, 2013 at 9:38 am

      We’re shooting 50%, but so is the other team.

    • PawlieKokonuts's avatar PawlieKokonuts said, on June 1, 2013 at 10:34 am

      I tend to agree; this is [let’s hope WAS], a bad patch; things even out.

  3. twinfan1's avatar twinfan1 said, on June 1, 2013 at 8:46 am

    1. Gregor Blanco (L) CF

    2. Marco Scutaro (R) 2B

    3. Hunter Pence (R) RF

    4. Buster Posey (R) C

    5. Brandon Belt (L) 1B

    6. Andres Torres (S) LF

    7. Brandon Crawford (L) SS

    8. Nick Noonan (L) 3B

    9. Matt Cain (R) P

    • Flavor's avatar Flavor said, on June 1, 2013 at 8:50 am

      That is an underwhelming LU. Getting swept today wouldn’t surprise me. 10-2, 10- 1 something like that.
      Maybe we can root for more weather to save us, lol

      • willedav's avatar willedav said, on June 1, 2013 at 9:01 am

        it would me, my man, SF usually hits pretty well in STL. Hitters yard, but we get to bat too, and renew some pleasantries with Holliday and a few others. Arias could use some ABs too so he can get going a bit at the plate while Pablo is out.
        Funny, but back in ’41 Durocher talks about taking his Dodgers “out west” for a road trip, to play Reds, Cards, and Cubs. Think about the boons for hitters in those days—playing almost exclusively day games, and in hot warm weather parks during summer: STL, Chi, Cincy, Pit Philly, NYC (two teams) and boston (home to Braves and managed by none other than Casey Stengel in those days).

      • twinfan1's avatar twinfan1 said, on June 1, 2013 at 9:48 am

        If we get swept and give up 10 or so per game, the “underwhelming” LU is the least of the team’s worries…

  4. twinfan1's avatar twinfan1 said, on June 1, 2013 at 8:57 am

    Exept for Noonan, I don’t see your issue with the LU. Pagan would be nice but he wasn’t doing that much better than Gregor.

    • Flavor's avatar Flavor said, on June 1, 2013 at 9:17 am

      No Pagan, no Pablo, Buster’s hitting like shit lately…Noonan.
      As I said, underwhelming.

      • twinfan1's avatar twinfan1 said, on June 1, 2013 at 9:26 am

        Noonan is the only significant downgrade.

      • Flavor's avatar Flavor said, on June 1, 2013 at 9:47 am

        I think you’re wrong

      • twinfan1's avatar twinfan1 said, on June 1, 2013 at 9:50 am

        Well, could be.

      • twinfan1's avatar twinfan1 said, on June 1, 2013 at 9:55 am

        On the other hand, this is hardly “overwhelming” . Molina, Beltran, Freese all sit for Game 1.

        1. Matt Carpenter (L) 3B

        2. Jon Jay (L) CF

        3. Matt Holliday (R) LF

        4. Allen Craig (R) RF

        5. Matt Adams (L) 1B

        6. Tony Cruz (R) C

        7. Daniel Descalso (L) 2B

        8. Pete Kozma (R) SS

        9. Shelby Miller (R) P

      • Flavor's avatar Flavor said, on June 1, 2013 at 10:03 am

        Noonan is playing both games.
        Matheny playing the lefty/righty games with his hitters

      • twinfan1's avatar twinfan1 said, on June 1, 2013 at 10:12 am

        Not exactly. Cruz is RHed as is Molina, Beltran is a switch hitter.

  5. PawlieKokonuts's avatar PawlieKokonuts said, on June 1, 2013 at 9:05 am

    Eddddd, a bit of the poet in ye, eh, mate? Well done. I tend to be the most doomerish of doomers, can’t help it, but I really have not succumved to that. Not for the season. Not at all. I have felt that at certain moments. You’ve seen it here. But, who knows why, today, in the words of the former Fed chairman whose name escapes me, “irrational exuberance” rules me. I just made a bet w/ the kid at the coffee shop. He and his dad, who frequents the place, a remote office of mine, are both Cards fans. The bet? The loser of the series has to wear the other team’s shirt next Saturday, during Willie’s shift. And why do I have this confidence? History. It was not logical, really, for us to win in 2010 or 2012, argue if you like. It just wasn’t. And it was not logical for us in particular for us to beat the Cards in the NLCS in 2012. So much for logique. Go, Gigantes! And thanks for the threadddd, Edddd.

    • twinfan1's avatar twinfan1 said, on June 1, 2013 at 9:11 am

      I’m trying to find the thread of Edd’s you are referring to, Pawlie. Sounds good.

      • Flavor's avatar Flavor said, on June 1, 2013 at 9:19 am

        This thread is by Edd

      • twinfan1's avatar twinfan1 said, on June 1, 2013 at 9:24 am

        Thanks, I just saw your name…even the good eye is a tad foggy in the A.M
        Hey, the cool thing about getting swept 10-2, 10-1 is maybe the Brandons get to pitch.

  6. PawlieKokonuts's avatar PawlieKokonuts said, on June 1, 2013 at 9:10 am

    Zumie, though I posted it in yesterday’s thread, and MAYBE sent you an email, again thanks ever so much for your compliments on “Tipp Hill Litanies.” Means an awful, awful lot to me. (In fact, I humbly invite you to just copy and paste the comment to Amazon.) I too often make the mistake of gauging this self-publishing venture by sales numbers.Heresy! In doing so, I defeat myself. (They used to call that “self-abuse” in the Catholic Church hahahaha.) (Thanks, Magnus, for making it POTD, too.)

  7. eddacker's avatar eddacker said, on June 1, 2013 at 9:27 am

    just bought Tipp Hill on the recommendation of my friend Zumie. err, scratch that: because I buy everything written by Mr. Kokac. err, scratch that: Mr. Kocak.
    I will read it tonight at work, err during breaks at work.

  8. snarkk's avatar snarkk said, on June 1, 2013 at 9:45 am

    I like the automotive theme, edd. IMO the team’s main problem is that it’s been running on regular petrol (pitching), not supreme, which the team’s turbocharger likes much better. Hence, the sputtering…

  9. snarkk's avatar snarkk said, on June 1, 2013 at 9:49 am

    BTW. edd, after 2 WS wins in 3 years, my Dukkha over the squad’s moderate problems so far this season is fairly small. Before Nov 1, 2010, with 40+ years of frustration, it was a “Giant” Dukkha…

  10. snarkk's avatar snarkk said, on June 1, 2013 at 9:55 am

    Cain needs to hold the fort. No early blow up with 2 or 3 big flies. If he does, my guess is Bochy will let him get creamed and basically give up the game to save the Pen for game #2. The Cards are the best team in MLB right now, I’d be happy to sneak away with one win this weekend…

  11. Locojuan's avatar Bozo said, on June 1, 2013 at 9:57 am

    Good one edd. Now let’s go out and kick some dupa (Polish for ass).

  12. Flavor's avatar Flavor said, on June 1, 2013 at 10:14 am

    Who knows, maybe we win both today. I just feel like Miller and Wainwright are dominant and we either have guys I want in there who aren’t playing (Pablo/pagan), guys who aren’t hitting at all lately (Posey and Noonan) and a guy who’s playing both games today (Noonan) who I’d rather see in triple A.
    But that’s why gambling on sports is not good for your health…

  13. Macdog's avatar Macdog said, on June 1, 2013 at 10:35 am

    Good start by Matty, who has had a few struggles in the 1st this year. Gonna need plenty of Horsepower to get Edd’s car rolling.

  14. Flavor's avatar Flavor said, on June 1, 2013 at 10:43 am

    Jeezus, 1/2/3 for Noonan– he was completely overmatched there. He missed the 2nd pitch by 3 feet

    • Macdog's avatar Macdog said, on June 1, 2013 at 10:50 am

      And then swung at a pitch that was outside by about 3 feet.

  15. salty's avatar salty said, on June 1, 2013 at 11:13 am

    So much for the horsepower. WTF?

  16. Macdog's avatar Macdog said, on June 1, 2013 at 11:14 am

    Calling Triple-A.

  17. salty's avatar salty said, on June 1, 2013 at 11:16 am

    This is grim. Not one of our starters inspires much confidence.

  18. Locojuan's avatar Bozo said, on June 1, 2013 at 11:17 am

    When did the Cards get Bengie Molina?

  19. salty's avatar salty said, on June 1, 2013 at 11:22 am

    Check that. This is beyond grim.

  20. James's avatar James said, on June 1, 2013 at 11:23 am

    Belt didn’t look good in his first AB. It may be time to take a longer look at Pill.

  21. Macdog's avatar Macdog said, on June 1, 2013 at 11:23 am

    Thank god there’s no DH.

  22. twinfan1's avatar twinfan1 said, on June 1, 2013 at 11:23 am

    A completely pathetic performance from Cain who stopped competing.

    • James's avatar James said, on June 1, 2013 at 11:35 am

      He dutifully backed up home on each play — what more can you ask?

  23. Locojuan's avatar Bozo said, on June 1, 2013 at 11:24 am

    Wow, I think the car just got a flat.

  24. salty's avatar salty said, on June 1, 2013 at 11:29 am

    Things are pretty bad when your Ace has to take one for the team.

  25. James's avatar James said, on June 1, 2013 at 11:31 am

    Autumn in New York is overrated, anyway.

  26. Macdog's avatar Macdog said, on June 1, 2013 at 11:32 am

    What Flemming said: Is there any reason for Posey to play the rest of this game?

    • salty's avatar salty said, on June 1, 2013 at 11:37 am

      What if Quiroz got hurt?

  27. snarkk's avatar snarkk said, on June 1, 2013 at 11:38 am

    So far this season, hard to say it, but that $120 million Cain deal is looking like a Zito redux. Remember, this guy has been pitching in MLB since he was 20. There’s already a lot of tough mileage on Cain’s arm…

  28. salty's avatar salty said, on June 1, 2013 at 11:38 am

    Guess they could forfeit.

  29. snarkk's avatar snarkk said, on June 1, 2013 at 11:43 am

    I don’t know about Cain, but this game is making my Dukkha bigger…

  30. Flavor's avatar Flavor said, on June 1, 2013 at 11:46 am

    Twin, saying Cain “stopped competing” is totally uncalled for, IMO. What did he do the next inning? Start competing again? Have you stopped to consider that they guys just hit him well? They all rake him.
    Suggesting he quit is a chicken shit thing to say about one of the finest Giants to ever put on a uniform.

    • twinfan1's avatar twinfan1 said, on June 1, 2013 at 11:53 am

      Go find someone else to fuck with. .

      • twinfan1's avatar twinfan1 said, on June 1, 2013 at 12:04 pm

        I’ve supported CaIn from his first year, pal- and when others were debating whether he or Lewis was the dumbest Giant. But he obviously quit competing in that inning. You’re only objecting because I said it first.

      • Flavor's avatar Flavor said, on June 1, 2013 at 12:07 pm

        No. I’m objecting to it because you’re the only person to say it. It was a pussy, chicken shit thing to day that has NO factual evidence to back it up.

      • Flavor's avatar Flavor said, on June 1, 2013 at 12:09 pm

        Say not day– posting from my phone

      • twinfan1's avatar twinfan1 said, on June 1, 2013 at 12:18 pm

        If you don’t like my comments ban me, then follow your latest advisory and don’t ever refer to me again. What’s pussy and chicken shit is making me your whipping boy. You’ve said about worse about players. He fucking laid ’em in in the same spot to everybody.He grooved a hit me to CRUZ, ferchrissake. It was, as I said, a pathetic, noncompeittive effort.in the third..

      • Flavor's avatar Flavor said, on June 1, 2013 at 12:35 pm

        If I don’t like your comments I’ll comment on them (as I did). And if you don’t want people to respond to your posts, maybe you should reconsider posting them on a public blog

      • twinfan1's avatar twinfan1 said, on June 1, 2013 at 12:42 pm

        You respond abusively and it’s not excused by disagreeing with with my comments.You break your own rules more than anyone else.

  31. Macdog's avatar Macdog said, on June 1, 2013 at 12:01 pm

    The good news is there’s one less inning for the bullpen to throw in these road blowouts.

  32. James's avatar James said, on June 1, 2013 at 12:13 pm

    Also on the bright side: Timmy has been pitching well enough lately to claim the #3 spot in the rotation.

    • snarkk's avatar snarkk said, on June 1, 2013 at 1:31 pm

      The entire rotation except Bum can be damned with faint praise at this point. As a group they are sure pitching far below their pay grade…

  33. salty's avatar salty said, on June 1, 2013 at 12:13 pm

    Bottom of the order started the Cards big inning….

  34. unca_chuck's avatar unca_chuck said, on June 1, 2013 at 12:35 pm

    Wow, picked a good day to not pay attention. WTF? All those 9 hits came in one inning. Crazy.

    • James's avatar James said, on June 1, 2013 at 12:39 pm

      Prepare for future analyses of “stretch mechanics.”

  35. Flavor's avatar Flavor said, on June 1, 2013 at 12:59 pm

    Shut out? As I said, the LU was underwhelming

    • twinfan1's avatar twinfan1 said, on June 1, 2013 at 1:07 pm

      As I indicated, the outcome indicates far bigger issues to be concerned with than an “underwheming” line up. This was one case when that bogus definition of insanity was valid.

  36. snarkk's avatar snarkk said, on June 1, 2013 at 1:07 pm

    I questioned it before, I think it legitimate again to question starting Gaudin tomorrow instead of Kickham. With all these guys hurt, they could easily have DLed one of ’em and got Kickham back up to start tomorrow. How long is Gaudin going to go anyway, even at best, maybe 5 frames, tops? After about the 4th hit in the 3rd, it was clear Cain didn’t have it, so if Gaudin were available for his usual role, Bochy could have thrown him in there before the game got out of hand — maybe it could have been salvaged the way these guys have come back this year. Because Gaudin wasn’t available, Bochy just let Cain twist out there as I predicted earlier today that Bochy would if Cain blew up, and basically forfeited the game in that inning. The rest of the game was garbage time. I don’t like it…

  37. Flavor's avatar Flavor said, on June 1, 2013 at 1:16 pm

    Well, if you’re right and Cain quit competing he had a funny way of showing it. He didn’t allow a base runner after the 3rd inning. He gutted out 6 innings. Look, the Cards hit him well. They dropped 9 runs on him the last game. Again, in one inning. Do you think that’s a coincidence? Or do you just thiink Cain is a quitter, for a single inning, each time he pitches against the Cards?
    But fine, you want to believe he quit competing, go ahead and believe it. It’s a free country, think what you want to think…….

    • twinfan1's avatar twinfan1 said, on June 1, 2013 at 1:34 pm

      The way he pitched in other innings lends credence to what I said, and with the 9 in one inning and none in the others in the other start… You might to review some of your posts about blowing up an inning and then pitching well in others. Anyway, I’m done with the topic, proceed if you wish.

  38. snarkk's avatar snarkk said, on June 1, 2013 at 1:21 pm

    Kuip et al are too funny. They’re positing that the Cards have some secret knowledge of Cain that no other teams have, hence pulverized him twice this year. Have they forgotten that lotsa other teams have beaten him up so far this season? Sheezus, at some point the homerism vs. realism struggle goes over the line with these guys…

    • Flavor's avatar Flavor said, on June 1, 2013 at 1:28 pm

      What is odd is that he he’s pitched 9.2 innings against them this year. 8 of those innings were scoreless. Yet he’s given up 16(!) runs in the other 1.2 that’s pitched against them. That’s amazing.

    • snarkk's avatar snarkk said, on June 1, 2013 at 1:37 pm

      What puts the logic lie to the broadcasters goofy hypothesis is that if he’s tipping pitches or something, he only does it one inning per game, and the rest of the game he doesn’t? If it’s that easy to correct, why doesn’t he fix it before the games? And, the other teams that have pounded him this year did so without knowing the “secret”? The tipping pitches nonsense has been used as an excuse before by the broadcasters, Kruk in particular, for guys on the staff. If that were true, it would be an indictment of Rags, he’s not smart enough to figure that out by June 1? It’s ludicrous…

  39. Flavor's avatar Flavor said, on June 1, 2013 at 1:30 pm

    9k’s and zero walks. Except for that one inning where he quit on his team and stopped competing, that’s a pretty good ratio…..

  40. PawlieKokonuts's avatar PawlieKokonuts said, on June 1, 2013 at 1:35 pm

    During game 1 of the first DH between these teams since ’94, I took a nap. Like an old dog on the porch with its tongue lolling on a miserably hot day. And I put my cell on silent. Tuned out the world. Smart move.

    I similarly “tune out” contretemps as occurred here between 11:46am and 12:42pm, with an eruption here or there before or after. Don’t care who is right, wrong, started, or finished it. My daughter does the same when she hears her parents bicker.

    • twinfan1's avatar twinfan1 said, on June 1, 2013 at 1:50 pm

      Since it’s a BFD when I supposedly start the “contretemps”, it should be when others do.. I’m not chicken shit and I’m not a fucking pussy and I’m not taking that crap.

      • Flavor's avatar Flavor said, on June 1, 2013 at 1:53 pm

        you DID start it by suggesting that one of the greatest, most respected Giants in history quit on his team and stopped competing in the 3rd inning. You say something outlandish like that and I will respond to it.

      • twinfan1's avatar twinfan1 said, on June 1, 2013 at 2:08 pm

        You have made many comments about players that others would consider disrespectful. That doesn’t give them the right to respond as you did. You were wrong, you started the fight, and you should own up to it and move on.*I* will now move om, now don’t be abusive again, please.

    • Flavor's avatar Flavor said, on June 1, 2013 at 2:01 pm

      and Pawlie, it’s certainly your right to skip through a “back and forth” like that one. However, if you had read something that you found to be ridiculous would you skip over that, too? If you were face to face with someone, would you respond to them if they claimed something that you thought was absurd? I’m pretty sure you wouldn’t stand idly by.

      • PawlieKokonuts's avatar PawlieKokonuts said, on June 1, 2013 at 2:41 pm

        I said what I said precisely because I have the capacity to be the worst offender of what I directly or indirectly accused you and Twin of doing. It’s too much a part of my makeup in real life. I own up to that.

  41. eddacker's avatar eddacker said, on June 1, 2013 at 1:36 pm

    just got home
    YEE-OUCH
    BF had the 10 – 1 score called pretty close, but if you selectively look at the line:

    pitches-strikes:
    Cain, M 101-72
    Miller, S 106-74
    and the rest:
    M Cain 9 hits 9 SO 0 walks 0 HR
    Miller 6 hits 7 SO 0 walks 0 HR

    they pitched very similar games

  42. PawlieKokonuts's avatar PawlieKokonuts said, on June 1, 2013 at 1:42 pm

    I don’t know if I’ve ever seen ANY starting rotation plagued by these tsunami-cyclone-locusts big half-innings as the Giants’ staff has. It’s epic. Last year, it was typical of Timmy. This year, it’s typical of every starter every other start or more, it seems. I’m not a stats maven, but surely it is of historic proportions? Maybe not. Maybe this happens to “normal” teams and we just got spoiled. (Go back to that first sentence and edit it. To say we are “plagued,” in the passive voice, is to say someone else is visiting it upon the pitchers. I can’t accept that. They are plaguing themselves, active voice, amigos.)

  43. Flavor's avatar Flavor said, on June 1, 2013 at 1:44 pm

    Personally, I think that Cain just had the same problem that Bum did in the inning he gave up 11 (or whatever it was) in one inning a couple of years ago. He threw too many strikes. Now, you can call that dumb or stubborn. But that isn’t quitting on your team. Unless you are suggesting that he just started grooving fastballs into the heart of the plate over and over. And why would he do that unless he was trying to throw the game? I think he just got stubborn and was probably stubborn when it happened earlier in the year against them, too and he had some poor location with many of his pitches that inning. I only saw part of that inning and then listened to the rest of it in the car on the radio. Was Cain shaking Buster off a lot or just throwing everything Posey called for?

  44. Flavor's avatar Flavor said, on June 1, 2013 at 2:06 pm

    If I said, “Torres doesn’t really have ADD he just likes to take legalized speed” or “Pablo’s fat because he’s lazy and doesn’t want to work out” or “Dirrrrty’s got bags under his eyes because he’s an alcoholic who stays up all night boozing” how ignored would those posts get here at the Flap?
    Saying something outlandish, especially when it’s not something based in fact or even stretched reality, is probably the single most effective way to *start* something here…….

    • Flavor's avatar Flavor said, on June 1, 2013 at 2:13 pm

      And Twin if you try to suggest you DON’T go after bloggers who make wild claims about some of these players, without any evidence to support it, then you will be lying. So to say something to the effect of “I didn’t start anything, I was just giving my opinion on something and suddenly got attacked by Flavor” that is complete bullshit. You would go after anyone who said something like that about a Giant player if, in fact, you didn’t agree with it……
      And to me, there are few lower things you can say about someone than “they quit on their team.”

  45. twinfan1's avatar twinfan1 said, on June 1, 2013 at 2:19 pm

    I wasn’t making a wild claim anymore than a a dozen you’ve made about Lincecum since last year. And if I DID respond as you did, you would rip me a new arse hole and you know it. Now, please, try to move along without being even more abusive.

  46. Macdog's avatar Macdog said, on June 1, 2013 at 2:29 pm

    At least Matty didn’t do this:

    “Orioles pitcher Jason Hammel was thrown out of Saturday’s game against the Detroit Tigers after allowing three straight homers and then hitting Matt Tuiasosopo in the helmet with a pitch.”

    • twinfan1's avatar twinfan1 said, on June 1, 2013 at 2:54 pm

      JSanchez came pretty close in his last start for the Bucs. Wonder what happened wiith the Dodger signing? He was suppopsed to go to Alberquerque but he’s still not on the roster.

  47. twinfan1's avatar twinfan1 said, on June 1, 2013 at 2:46 pm

    1. Gregor Blanco (L) CF

    2. Brandon Crawford (L) SS

    3. Marco Scutaro (R) 2B

    4. Hunter Pence (R) RF

    5. Brandon Belt (L) 1B

    6. Andres Torres (S) LF

    7. Joaquin Arias (R) 3B

    8. Guillermo Quiroz (R) C

    9. Madison Bumgarner (R) P

    • James's avatar James said, on June 1, 2013 at 3:03 pm

      Now *that’s* a line up.

  48. PawlieKokonuts's avatar PawlieKokonuts said, on June 1, 2013 at 3:01 pm

    It’s MF hot. Our team is faring poorly. We are at the gates of the Bastille, storming each other. Not that that’s abnormal or unexpected. Human nature. I’m not up on my Francois Revolution, but I suspect that did happen. Did not the Irish Republicans famously fight among themselves? Now, to jump head-first into the fray: I am suggesting there are loopholes here for everyone to save face, as is severely important in some cultures. Digitally we cannot discern tone, so words in naked form take on added power. The debate here rages largely on semantic interpretations — a legit reason for any dispute. Just ask a lawyer. Or a lexicographer. No, I’ll revise that. The dispute is ACTUALLY about context and what was left UNSAID. At 11:23 Twin said Cain “stopped competing.” He did not say whether it was by will, lack of will, incapacity, or by an EMF aura around the mound. Twin also did not add the factual “for one inning.” Magnus (known as Flavor) responded to the “stopped competing” with the understanding that it meant Cain “stopped competing” literally and doing so was his doing or not doing something. It is possible Twin meant “stopped being competitive”? One could grant him that, but that begs the question, “Then why did he not use those words?” I just wrote “I can see where either disputant can latch on to that phrase and go at it” but for feck sake I hardly know what I think anymore. (I refuse to get into the more tangential aspects, the aftermath of it.) One extremely important note: I thought James’s sly and slick retort in the midst of this, at 11:35am, was DJLoo-ian. It is a smart-aleck comment that only a Giants fan remembering what Lincecum did not do last year could make. Plus, James was trying to loosen up the bench here.

    • twinfan1's avatar twinfan1 said, on June 1, 2013 at 3:30 pm

      We/he/they “didn’t compete”, as it’s used in baseball is not a synonym for “quitting” . It’s a commonly used term in baseball and doesn’t mean what’s being claimed. “Stopped competing” means what I said, and it’s different from “didn’t compete” only in what the *carefully* chosen term implies. It’s not, again, a synonym for quitting and anyone who’s followed the game at all has seen the term used many times.

      • Flavor's avatar Flavor said, on June 1, 2013 at 3:52 pm

        You’re FOS, as usual, but whatever, that’s fine. He stopped competing. I get it now. Thanks for yet another brilliant tutorial on the details of the game that my slow mind fails to grasp, consistently…..

      • twinfan1's avatar twinfan1 said, on June 1, 2013 at 4:35 pm

        “”Wade’s greatest strength is his competitiveness,” Hooton said. “He’s a hell of a competitor, but he’d stopped competing. He was out there throwing strikes, not pitching.”

        I have more. But you’re being too hard on yourself, I bet you already get it,.

      • Flavor's avatar Flavor said, on June 1, 2013 at 5:03 pm

        Yup. Using the word “pathetic” to describe him and then saying he quit competing is another clear example of what you were talking about. “Pathetic” is probably a word hooten would have used to describe his pitcher– very respectful language that probably goes over really well in the clubhouse.

    • twinfan1's avatar twinfan1 said, on June 1, 2013 at 3:51 pm

      Twin did not add the factual for one inning because more innings had yet to be played when Twin failed to add the factual for one inning.

  49. James's avatar James said, on June 1, 2013 at 3:08 pm

    Pawlie, a book about the history, personas, and dynamics of this blog could, if done right, sell a few copies.

    • PawlieKokonuts's avatar PawlieKokonuts said, on June 1, 2013 at 3:18 pm

      only among ourselves . . . but who’s to say?
      Hey, at least the Giants committed no errors in the game! And I STILL do not know what a dukkha is and I’m too lazy to Google it.

      • James's avatar James said, on June 1, 2013 at 3:30 pm

        One could go directly to screen play, a quasi-“Short Cuts,” the narrative tied together by a blog instead of an earthquake.

        No comparative religion at the seminary, eh? πŸ˜‰

      • PawlieKokonuts's avatar PawlieKokonuts said, on June 1, 2013 at 3:35 pm

        Ha. I pretend to be a quasi-semi-para Buddhist. Wouldn’t “dukkha” not have an “a” before it, because it is so universal? Speaking of “Short Cuts,” I rather liked it, though it was way more Altman than Carver. Who was the chick who performed phone sex while cleaning the house and feeding the kids?

      • James's avatar James said, on June 1, 2013 at 5:09 pm

        Tralala herself.

  50. zumiee's avatar zumiee said, on June 1, 2013 at 3:45 pm

    Well, I had to look it up. (grin)
    Wiki says:
    “Dukkha (Pāli; Sanskrit: duαΈ₯kha; Tibetan sdug bsngal) is a Buddhist term commonly translated as “suffering”, “stress”, “anxiety”, or “dissatisfaction”. Dukkha is identified as the first of the Four Noble Truths.”

    I wouldn’t say I, personally, have a big dukkha about the Giants. Yet. But there is a nagging feeling about the fact that there was a big opportunity to put a big hurt on the Dodgers early in the season, but instead the Dodgers were allowed to hang around. And that could come back to haunt.

  51. zumiee's avatar zumiee said, on June 1, 2013 at 4:13 pm

    Fleming has the Fox gig today. I did not know that.

  52. zumiee's avatar zumiee said, on June 1, 2013 at 4:17 pm

    That Giants game two lineup is so crazy, it just…might…work.

  53. salty's avatar salty said, on June 1, 2013 at 4:29 pm

    The Brandons might have to lead the way.

  54. zumiee's avatar zumiee said, on June 1, 2013 at 4:52 pm

    Dodgers lose! That always makes the day a little nicer.

  55. Flavor's avatar Flavor said, on June 1, 2013 at 4:52 pm

    It appears the 3 runs I predicted they’d score today might have been a little too optimistic

    • willedav's avatar willedav said, on June 1, 2013 at 6:39 pm

      yeah fraid so man. I thought SF could rake today, didn’t happen, and the SPs couldn’t hold Cards back.

  56. snarkk's avatar snarkk said, on June 1, 2013 at 4:58 pm

    It is beginning to cease to amaze me how many times Giants pitchers allow the opposing pitcher to get on base somehow…

  57. zumiee's avatar zumiee said, on June 1, 2013 at 5:00 pm

    Blimey.

  58. zumiee's avatar zumiee said, on June 1, 2013 at 5:03 pm

    And again I say- blimey.

  59. snarkk's avatar snarkk said, on June 1, 2013 at 5:05 pm

    Cards are hitting .333 team RISP before the games today.
    Has to be above that now. Scary…

  60. salty's avatar salty said, on June 1, 2013 at 5:07 pm

    Another 3rd inning nightmare

  61. James's avatar James said, on June 1, 2013 at 5:07 pm

    Bum just needs to get through enough innings to save the bullpen arms. It’s always good to have a goal.

    • twinfan1's avatar twinfan1 said, on June 1, 2013 at 5:15 pm

      Well, nothing in his recent history would suggest he’d have such sucess so far, so Gaudin probably goes 6 scoreless tomorrow…

  62. PawlieKokonuts's avatar PawlieKokonuts said, on June 1, 2013 at 5:21 pm

    Baseball. Mets sweep Yanks. Can’t beat Marlins. Go figure.

    • Macdog's avatar Macdog said, on June 1, 2013 at 6:01 pm

      Mets are so predictable, that was easy to see coming.

  63. snarkk's avatar snarkk said, on June 1, 2013 at 5:59 pm

    Well, I’m hoping to avoid a doubleheader shutout. How’s that for optimism?
    Adios…

  64. Macdog's avatar Macdog said, on June 1, 2013 at 6:01 pm

    For once I’m grateful for the Fox blackout.

  65. PawlieKokonuts's avatar PawlieKokonuts said, on June 1, 2013 at 6:04 pm

    Too distressing. Exiting, stage left. Gnight, girls.

    • Flavor's avatar Flavor said, on June 1, 2013 at 6:06 pm

      Later Pawlie– good talking to you today, if only for a couple of minutes.

  66. twinfan1's avatar twinfan1 said, on June 1, 2013 at 6:07 pm

    Don’t worry, Zito goes in Game 5….

    • twinfan1's avatar twinfan1 said, on June 1, 2013 at 6:08 pm

      That’s a “Smiley”, don’t hurt me.

  67. Flavor's avatar Flavor said, on June 1, 2013 at 6:09 pm

    Miller and Wainwright shut lots of teams down. This day had ugly written all over it from the beginning. But it’s not ledge-time.
    Both Bum and Cain got thru 6, it would have been awful had Cain not re-started competing, as he apparently did in the 4th inning. And Bum is doing enough to at least keep the bullpen from gagging and dragging into the ACTUAL bullpen game tomorrow……..

    • twinfan1's avatar twinfan1 said, on June 1, 2013 at 6:32 pm

      Matt was probably psyched after getting the pitcher out twice in one inning..
      matt

      • Flavor's avatar Flavor said, on June 1, 2013 at 6:36 pm

        well, he had to make it at least LOOK like he was still trying……

      • twinfan1's avatar twinfan1 said, on June 1, 2013 at 6:38 pm

        Darn, I was late on the smiley.

  68. James's avatar James said, on June 1, 2013 at 6:14 pm

    The Giants starters gradually redefining the concept of the “save.”

  69. James's avatar James said, on June 1, 2013 at 6:50 pm

    The unfortunate thing about the lack of offense is that it obscures the fact that it would have taken at least 17 runs to win both of these games, given the pitching performances.

    • Flavor's avatar Flavor said, on June 1, 2013 at 6:53 pm

      very true. And if you had said to me before the game, I’ll bet ya $100 on the number of runs the Giants score today— O/U 17. of course, we all would have taken the under.
      I set the line at 3 this morning and which way would you have gone on that O/U number?

  70. Flavor's avatar Flavor said, on June 1, 2013 at 6:59 pm

    Swept in St Louis. 15-1 combined.
    This is not a problem because we have Gaudin going tomorr….um….never mind.
    I still marvel at the fact that there are still people out there, somewhere, that think starting Gaudin tomorrow is a good idea…..

    • twinfan1's avatar twinfan1 said, on June 1, 2013 at 7:11 pm

      You have at least one here, and it ain’t me.

      • Flavor's avatar Flavor said, on June 1, 2013 at 7:16 pm

        well, we have at least 2 in the Giants org– gotta think that Sabes and Bochy think it’s the most preferred idea out of the possibilities. I still think that Loux or Kick could do as well (or better) than Gaud-damn!

  71. eddacker's avatar eddacker said, on June 1, 2013 at 7:07 pm

    15 runs in two starts
    I could pitch with that kinda support
    tonight my pleasure button was not pushed, twice
    I can’t see the sun sinking in the west over the pacific, but I am afraid to look. but I did not stop listening.

  72. eddacker's avatar eddacker said, on June 1, 2013 at 7:09 pm

    I will enter the land of belief where dukkha only exists after 162 games

  73. Nipper's avatar Nipper said, on June 1, 2013 at 7:47 pm

    Hey it’s St. Louis…….a cow town. Giants seldom do well here. They’re homebodies who miss the home cooking.

    • Flavor's avatar Flavor said, on June 1, 2013 at 7:53 pm

      As usual, the beacon of reason, NIp. And as you proved tonight, it doesn’t need to be 4:03am for your calming influence to take hold….
      Without looking it up, I’d say the Giants play worse in St Louis, Milwaukee and Atlanta than anywhere else. Just a guess. And I don’t know where to look that up…..

      • twinfan1's avatar twinfan1 said, on June 1, 2013 at 8:31 pm

        Just checked last 4 years plus this one

        St. Louis:
        2013 0-2
        2012 2-2
        2011 3-1
        2010 1-2
        2009 2-2

        Milwaukee:
        2013 0-3
        2012 2-1
        2011 1-2
        2010 4-0
        2009 1-2

        Atlanta:
        2013-N/A
        2012 2-1
        2011 1-3
        2010 1-3
        2009 1-3

  74. twinfan1's avatar twinfan1 said, on June 1, 2013 at 9:14 pm

    Fabio Castillo, a minor league rule 5 guy picked up from Texas, was just promoted to Fresno. Had a good outing tonight, going up against Wheeler. Fabio’s just 24 but he’s been around since 2006. Said to have big league stuff, control issues. I wouldn’t be surprised to see a few pitchers make a fast trip now. Throw ’em out and see who might stick,

    • twinfan1's avatar twinfan1 said, on June 1, 2013 at 9:21 pm

      Angel V. just hit his 14th, and 6th in last 7 games.

      • Flavor's avatar Flavor said, on June 1, 2013 at 9:28 pm

        come on, he’s swinging for the fences in every at bat, like most Latin players. HIs OBP is .281.. And he’s playing in freaking single A fastball-land. Good for him. He’ll do NOTHING above this level.

      • twinfan1's avatar twinfan1 said, on June 1, 2013 at 9:40 pm

        Just info, not an endorsement. I give numbers for a lot of guys, some Flappers appreciate it…He is tied for the league lead in HRs, though. He is an interesting story, IMO.

      • twinfan1's avatar twinfan1 said, on June 1, 2013 at 10:02 pm

        The numbers on our road records that you speculated about were just info, too. No hidden meaning, just a favor. To YOU. Goodnight.

      • Flavor's avatar Flavor said, on June 1, 2013 at 10:05 pm

        G’night Twin. You are nothing if not helpful and informative. I’m looking forward to tomorrow’s lesson.

      • twinfan1's avatar twinfan1 said, on June 2, 2013 at 8:26 am

        And I’ll be there to help you.

    • Flavor's avatar Flavor said, on June 1, 2013 at 10:08 pm

      Why more pitchers? It wouldn’t be due to a bullpen need, would it? I thought this BP was good to go, 6 innings over the average, all that jazz?

      • twinfan1's avatar twinfan1 said, on June 2, 2013 at 8:25 am

        No, it wouldn’t. They’ve promoting starters Pay attention..

  75. Flavor's avatar Flavor said, on June 1, 2013 at 10:18 pm

    Hittin the sack. Still don’t know what a Giant Dukkha is. Sounds Indian. Thanks for the thread today Edd, each and everyone I don’t have to write helps me out a little.
    On the doorstep of 1000.


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