Spending Big Bucks is Not Sabean’s Greatest Skill as a GM
What kind of return does Brian Sabean get on his investments? Let’s take a look at some of the bigger contracts he’s consummated since the Zito fiasco (which was P-Mags and not Sabean). I am going to do this chronologically, at least from my memory. Not looking anything up, just one fan’s *recollection*. So if I’m off by a few mil or I forget someone, don’t have a cow. Argue with the grade I give instead.
Aaron Rowand: 5 years/$60 mil. Grade: D. Rowand was marginally productive in the first 2 years of the deal so I can’t give this signing an F. He went downhill quickly, Bochy stuck with him for too long, whether it was because he thought he’d snap out of it or he just didn’t have anyone else to put in there. Regardless, he was bad in 2010, he sucked worse in 2011 and he was finally paid to go away for the totality of the 2012 season. He made a catch to save Dirrrrrty’s no hitter though so I’ll bump his grade up to a D+
Glass Sanchez: 2 years/$12 mil. Grade: F. He played 20 games or so in 2011 and 0 games in 2012. Even though he was injured, Sabean had to know that Glass was held together with rubber bands and cement tape. Dumb money spent.
Aubrey Huff: 2 years/$20 mil. Grade: F. Still mostly drunk of the 2010 title, I supported this deal. That doesn’t change the grade. Bad deal. And when you suck, it’s quite annoying that you’ve got the first name of a girl. At least to me.
Pablo Sandoval: 3 years/$18 mil. Grade: F. I’m not talking about Pablo’s production, he’s played well since the deal was given and he was MVP of the world series. But he would have done that anyway if the Giants had kept going year to year with him. The grade is for how stupid he made the Giants look after he slimmed down, they gave him a deal of faith that they didn’t have to give him, and he promptly ballooned up again. We’ll see how the next season and a half goes. If he keeps on eating, my guess is he’s going to see a lot of DL time.
Tim Lincecum: 2 years/$40 mil. Grade: D. He had the worst ERA in the NL last year for qualified pitchers (by a country mile) and he’s been largely underwhelming this year, too. He did step up hugely in the world series last year but overall, he didn’t and hasn’t come close to pitching to the worth of this deal.
Buster Posey: 8 years/$180 mil. Grade: B. They’ll move him off catcher at some point and that will be a good thing for his body. Whether he produces at what that position is worth remains to be seen. he’s only going to get better as a hitter though and he won the batting title last year so I’ll be optimistic about this deal…..
Mad-Bum: 6 years/$35 mil. Grade: A+. I’m not sure what Bum was thinking here. He got some financial security for his family, I guess. But he’s going to win a CY or two over the course of this deal–a hugely, home town friendly deal.
Matt Cain: 6 years/$127 mil. Grade: B-. Sabean HAD to pick one of his big two to lock down and he probably picked right one. But that’s determined more in comparison to Timmy’s suckitude and the belief that he’ll never be the same Lincecum again. Will Cain start pitching like *Cain* again? Probably, but not for the life of this deal. Sabean still gets points for *not* picking Timmy.
Marco Scutaro: 3 years/$20 mil: Grade: A-. He’s hitting .332 right now, raise your hand if any of you saw Scoots hitting .332 this year. The *-* is for the next 2 seasons. But who knows, maybe he keeps it going. Can he just cut off his pinky ala Ronnie Lott? It’s on his non throwing hand. I guess it would screw up his swing a little. Too bad. I wish he could lop that bad boy off…….
Angel Pagan: 4 years/$40 mil. Grade: C-. I posted more than once last year that I thought Pagan was a contract driven guy. Whether I’m right or wrong remains to be seen but even before he was injured he was having a pretty underwhelming season. And more years of this doesn’t make the deal look too good. But who knows, maybe he turns it around when he comes back healthy.
So, as can be gleaned from this list of 10 deals, more often than not, things don’t go too well when Brian breaks out the big pen to offer a deal to a player. He’s much better at everything else a GM is responsible for doing…….
A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball 
Pablo just scratched you off of his Christmas card list. I might go higher with Tim if only because I could give a rat’s ass about the regular season. Without him, we don’t even smell the 2012 World Series. I would go C with him.
By the by Flav, the “streamer special” today is Hector Santiago, who is going against the ‘stros. Locked and loaded my man. 😉
Noted! And thanks for the dad’s day shout
What are you and Katie planning to do today? I hope she has something fun planned for your special day!!!!!
Well I’m busy pumping out some wicked sets at the newly remodeled Gold’s gym (which you will see if you make it out here).
Then I’m swinging by Safeway, picking up a flank steak, some Brussel sprouts and some beer and heading home. In the pm I’ll take her down to the pool where she’ll kick my ass in a game of pool h-o-r-s-e a few times although who knows maybe she lets me win cause its my “day.” I’ll get my tan on, she’ll do her thing in the pool with friends and I’ll marvel at what a perfect angel she is. Then BBQ and baseball after that. All in all, a good day if it works out that way!
Did they add a dry heat sauna and steam room???? Your day sounds wonderful. I have a coffee date with someone this morning from Plenty Of Fish dating site. LOL. (Those are always hit and miss) 🙂
Almost forgot . . . HAPPY FATHER’S DAY TO ALL YOU FLAPPER DADS! YOU’RE ALL DOING A FANTASTIC JOB ENSURING THAT THE NEXT GENERATION IS EQUIPPED TO LEAD PLANET EARTH!
WITH FLAPPER KIDS LEADING THE WAY, WE HAVE A HALF-ASSED CHANCE NOT TO DESTROY THIS BALL VIA IMBECILIC WAR, POLLUTION, OR THE MYRIAD OTHER WAYS WE POOP ON THE PLANET DAILY. 😉
Mmmm, some of these were a crapshoot. Rowand deal I didn’t care for tho he had had productive seasons earlier in career. I didn’t think he could match number from Philly days, tho he did come close. Guy played hard, just couldn’t adjust. Not Sabes fault.
Same with Huff–and first of all you have to give Sabes credit for signing the guy. He had monster 2010 with 26 bombs, 12 alone out of ATT and the rally thong. Sure you could have expected his even/odd splits to take a downturn, but no one here would have suspected he’d fall apart like he did. He was gonna get a good deal elsewhere based on 2010 and was imp part of the Champ team.
You could say same for FS–and up until SF got him he had played many games for Pirates and racked up over 600 ABs in a season. He’s fielding a ball to his left, falls down and jacks himself, and never ever recovers..and again had a stellar 2010 second half. Replacements were awful, along with SS and of course back up C.
Both of above were heroes from the band of misfits. Sabes handed out some good deals this off season too, and I hope nothing like what happened to Huff and Sanchez happens to anyone else. Players want to be paid based on what they did, and if you win it all it’s gonna be expensive and difficult to keep them…as GM you are hoping to get similar production and keep winning group together.
Happy Father’s Day, Flav, and all you other fathers out there in electric flavor land. The thing about Father’s Day is there are no good swears or epitaphs around ‘father.’ You have motherfucker, motherlovin’, mother may I, mother’s little helper, on and on. What does dad get?
Yesterday, my daughter goes, “daddy why is everything in the world about “man”. ” I said “what do u mean.” She’s goes, “well, there’s “MANkind” and….(long pause) and “MANaise”
She and I both burst out laughing. Such a cute 10 yr old moment
Father knows best?
Happy Fathers Day flappers…As I sit here waiting on my wife’s car to get oil change and car wash…I guess my dad’s day present is me not having to wash the car.
did someone change gametime? my giants schedule has it starting in an hour?
5:05 P.M. PST
Enjoy your day Flapper Dad’s!
I’ll be kicking back in the recliner watching the US Open with my dad, who is closing in on 89 but still good for a few choice quips.
Happy Father’s Day! Had daughter’s soccer game this morning — even in a 3-0 loss, there’s never a dull moment in these mini-dramas — and got the U.S. Open followed, of course, by our World Champion Giants later on. Have a good one, FlapDaddies!
Manny Machado is 20 (I think) and he just banged out his 32nd double of the season. We’re barely halfway thru June. That’s insane
Rowand- D. Sabean should have seen that the outliers were his couple big years. It should be noted, however, that if the deal were graded at the All-Star break of his first year, it would have been a B+. So the grades for Scooter and Crazy Horse are incompletes.
Fruckie: C+ hard to bitch big time at 6 per million per for a Misfit. But Bochy should get half of Fruckie’s contract for finally putting his foot down in 2010 and ordering the Fruckster to report for duty…
Huff: this time the bloggers were in bed with Sabean so although the deal turned sour, it’s a joint D-…
Sandoval: A+ Pablo has returned almost the total sum of the 3 year deal already
Timmy: B he didn’t give him a long term contract
Cain: C it’s a B+ if it’s 4 years
Posey: C 8 years is too long, period. The reasonable hope is that he’s worth 5 years of it.
MadBum A+ Thank God for Country Boys..
Scooter and Pagan- see Rowand.
Zito- one can’t absolve the GM just to avoid giving a grade to what is still one of the worst contracts given out in the History of the World, or least since one of Huff”s namesakes, Aubrey de Coucy, was Earl of Northumbria in 1080. I’d give it a Z- but I’m upgrading it to a solid F because the Cards fell asleep waiting for his curve ball in the playoffs last year 😉
Enjoying my peaceful mornings in the Bay Area after a long time away. Sat down with a chocolate croissant and a strong cup of joe, reading the Press Democrat newspaper. Their *sportswriter* is named Lowell Cohn, not sure how reputable he is. His article this morning starts off on a similar vein, urging the Giants to NOT renew Zito under any uncertain terms. Pay to get rid of him. He does acknowledge the fine performance in the playoffs last year, but looking to the future, a big no. He also then says Posey (obviously) and Crawford are the keys to the team’s future.
welcome home, when you go to China?
Just saw a funky ass play in Cubs-Mets that I’m sure will wind up on how not to play ball, or reason number X Mets are 24-39 and actually worse than cubs.
Two out, runners on first and second, Soriano hits one hard that Wright makes a diving snag of, then airmails an underhand throw past first. Murphy at 1b picks it up toward the stands and throws way wide to the plate as runner from second slides in. No one is backing up the plate and the SS Quintanilla throws home trying to get runner on first (nate) and that one goes wild too. Soriano winds up at 3b, 2 runs score. Announcers on WGN said, “If you’re scoring that’s an error on everyone.”
Paul, Lowell Cohn is a bay area reject from way back. Not an example of intelligent life in sportswriting (tho he certainly has a lot of company even among those still here).
And he has a son who is worse than Dad. On Father’s Day they sit on the couch and diss Mom…
That would’ve been my guess. Not a very well written sports article. Oh well, it’s a nice Sunday morning in Sonoma… 🙂
Yeah, Lowell C. desecrated the Chron’s Sporting Green back in the 80s. Glen Dickey was there too, but he was merely mediocre. Lowell was flat out vicious, self-serving and unreliable. Killion currently occupies that slot at the chron, imo.
Cubs Garza is shutting out said Mets through 5…he’s 30 yrs old and not inexpensive. Career NL numbers 3.75 ERA pitching at Wrigley, and I’d think he’d love to get away from there. Thoughts?
I’ve indicated many times that the Cubs are shopping him. In my opinion, he would be a nice fit in the Phone Park. It would cost us plenty (any first line pitcher – he is considered a 1 in Chicago – will not be inexpensive).
You and every sportswriter in the country.
“You and every sportswriter in the country.”
Your point? If you don’t have one – then fuck off.
You tell him, Steve.. 🙂
I probably wouldn’t say that to a Flapper, but a snarky troll comment deserves nothing less.
Sure, he’s had injury problems tho
Streamer Alert: we could have a problem: Houston up 3-0 in the 3rd. Stay tuned!
Now tell the whole story Flav . . . 6 SOs in 3 innings (translates into a point gain). 🙂
do they only count strike outs in that league?
I took him in the Flap (ERA, WHIP, SOs, Wins).
I see. Your ERA and WHIP can’t withstand the concept of streaming. It never works over the course of a season. You get a good start here and there and then 3 or 4 shitty ones and it takes forever to make up the ERA and WHIP loss that the streamers cause your team. But keep on doing it if that floats your boat. We’re competitors I should be encouraging you to stream!
Flav, this is a universally accepted tactic by ALL Fantasy League writers in EVERY outlet, ESPN, CBS, YAHOO, SI, etc. They know more about fantasy league than you and I will ever know in my opinion. I have been successful overall in it since you introduced me to FL 4 years ago (regardless or what happens today, tomorrow, in the Flap league, other leagues, etc.). Yes, I hate it when any category is affected by any of my pitchers. However, when you are in 5th place (lowest in any league I’ve been is 3rd at seasons end), you take risks. I am all about winning my man. Second, third, fourth, etc., is for losers in my opinion.
actually, I take it back, There is a way to possibly make streaming work. If you were dominating in saves and your WHIP and ERA was super low and you could withstand some blows to them I’d consider it—maybe in August or so, you could try it to make up a few points in k’s or maybe wins. That might be the only time I’d ever try it. It’s Russian Roulette.
blade, FYI, I went ahead and picked up Rendon today and sorry, I didn’t drop Zobrist.
Yeah, Rendon has potential. Too bad you didn’t have him last night (I think he went yard in a walk off win).
Can we work Soriano into the Garza deal as well? I’ve wanted to see him Orange and Black for about 15 years now. Better late than never. I know he’s a flawed player, but I’ve always liked him.
Rowand: I liked the deal as I thought it was a good step toward changing the culture to a gritty, hustling, play-hard mentality. Obviously, in retrospect it was a bad deal.
Huff; I did not like the deal at the time. I thought it was too much money and I said so here—or were we at the old blog at that point?
Freddie: I never cared much for Freddie and didn’t like his deal.
Panda: No problem with this deal. Maybe my personal friendship with Pablo is clouding my judgement, but I say accept him as he is and leave his ass alone. (Yes, I’m joking about the relationship)
Tim: I hated this deal at the time as it took away all our leverage to sign him to a long deal. In retrospect, it was a lucky miss by Sabean. At that time, I thought it was a bigger priority to lock up Tim, but obviously it worked out better throwing the money at Cain. I’d love to know the contract terms Tim termed down from the Giants. I bet it was a whopper of an offer.
Cain: I wasn’t wild about the deal at the time, but now I think it was money well spent. Yes, the guy gets lit every now and again, but I still think he will be a top of the rotation guy for years to come.
Crazy Horse: I compare his deal to Huff’s. Playing a signficant role on a WS champ is great timing and the price skyrockets. I like the guy, but I don’t see him as a 10 mil player.
Scutaro: Same as Huff/Pagan. Hell, if you get 15 hits in one playoff series or whatever the hell he did against the Cards I have no problem opening the checkbook.
You forgot DeRosa—another deal that didn’t turn out so hot.
Happy Father’s Day Flappers!
I’ve never heard of Hector Santiago and I’m a little cloudy on this “streaming” concept, but I’m loving it all anyway. Keep the updates coming!
Santiago was a rookie last year (made an appearance or two in 2011) and was the closer for the White Sox for a bit last year before being injured.. He did fairly well, e.g., 79 SOs in 70 innings, This year the White Sox decided to “stretch” him out and make him an emergency starter. They are hurting in starting pitching, partially due to injuries. He has had some success again this year with a low ERA and decent WHIP. SOs are what I am looking for primarily though.
Some more fodder for a steamy day:
Total return on investment ( all contracts) to date:
( dollar value is WAR converted to a dollar value. )
Posey 68.6 million
Belt 15.8 million
Scooter 16 million
Sandoval 73.4 million
Crawford 19.3 million
Torres 48.6 million ( more than half of it in 2010)
Blanco 15.9 million
Pagan 22.3 million
Pence 20.0 million
Cain 119.7 million
Lincecum 119.7 million (yep, the same as Timmy, total)
Zito 33.1 million
MadBum 50.8 million
Vogelsong 17 million
Notables from the recent past:
Nate 19 million
Huff 18.7 million
Rowand 19.1 million
Fruckie 13.4 million
Burrell 12.1 million
Dirrrrty 31.0 million
Uribe 24.4 million
Renteria 8.2 million
Vera’s boy 2.8 million
Bengie 16.3 million
And finally, the Tire Fire dude: MINUS 2.5 milliion
This stuff is fascinating Twin. Question – is this for their entire time in SF? What are the time frames?
It’s their entire SF tenure, and only includes their SF time. If a player had more than one team in a year ( Scooter, for example, I guesstimated high, giving more value for his time here).
Well, I am fascinated by these numbers and am still processing them. Good stuff Mike. By the by, who is the “Tire Fire Dude?”
Armando. Mr. Benitez earned that nickname here. The numbers are from Fangraphs, BTW. I put them out as a fun discussion, and I can see that you’re taking it as intended. I know that there’s plenty of room for disagreement.
Any time that math can be used to quantify a player’s worth, I am interested. I rarely (if ever) discount any metric that provides quantitative versus qualitative analysis. I recently saw part of that Clint Eastwood “scout” movie (forgot the name) . . . Anywho, the part that I saw was where he’s inside his house with John Goodman, with a pile of sports sections, notes, and other jottings on his table where he works . . . Goodman suggests that he get a PC. Classic scene of a combative dinosaur scout chatting with someone that has embraced technology (Sabermetrics).
Funny stuff. I hope James gets a chance to see this. 😉
I am shocked with Nate’s worth (I would have thought it was much, much lower). Same thing with Blanco. To me, Scooter should be way more than Blanco. Interesting.
Well, remember that Blanco was here all year last year and that Fangraphs does use more than offense. Here’s position players this year only, in millions, to date:
Pence 15 Posey 12.4 Crawford 10.1 Scooter 9.8 Blanco 6.1 Belt 5.2 Pablo 4.5 Torres 4.2 Pagan 2.5
If I were Sabean, I’d give Pence a nice 4-5 year extension… He’s proven his worth and his age means nothing.
He’s a gamer. In fact, I’d have given him a $3m bonus this year just for the motivation that carried the team
through the 6 elimination playoff games … IMO
Here’s hoping Timmy gives his dad a nice Father’s Day win tonight.
I know Flav is a big fan of Bud Norris and he should be…He reminds me a lot of a younger Cain, built like a horse and he seems to get better every year….Not to mention he is a Bay Area kid… I think he will cost more than most think, so I don’t think he comes home.
Younger, I mean in terms of ML experience. They actually are the same age.
agreed. I’m going to pick him up today for a buck in both my auction leagues. Keep him on the bench until he gets traded to a contender and then BOOM! …unleash hell………
*Two Slices* Colon forgot to sprinkle his steroids onto his Fruity Pebbles this am. He’s given up 7 hits in 1.1 innings of “work”
The site below has the daily LUs and an interesting feature showing bullpen usage in 3 day increments:
http://baseballpress.com/daily_pitching.php
The pen totals are by pitches thrown,
A couple of rooks of note: Puig, three hits off of Gerrit Cole, and now with an onbase % of .500 after 50 ABs.
Cole may get the last laugh, though, if the Pirates can keep the lead and get him the W.
1. Gregor Blanco (L) CF
2. Brandon Crawford (L) SS
3. Buster Posey (R) C
4. Hunter Pence (R) RF
5. Brandon Belt (L) 1B
6. Andres Torres (S) LF
7. Joaquin Arias (R) 3B
8. Nick Noonan (L) 2B
9. Tim Lincecum (L) P
Gametime Forecast: 80°F • Overcast • 27%PoP
San dawg, uh, Soriano is only “flawed”, bro? Dude turned us down as I recall…his loss.
Serious question: How the F do you correctly pronounce San Antonio’s #2 name? There’s only two syllables, but which one is accented? Does last one, the “i” , sound like eye or eee?
I remember seeing similar pronunciation guides when Kauai King was winning big races, though I’d probably say that one wrong too.
Father’s day festivity distracted me. As Paul and Pawlie and no doubt others can attest, today represents another important holiday. Stately plump Buck Mulligan . . . Mr. Leopold Bloom ate with relish . . . . Ineluctable modality of the visible. . . . Bronze by gold heard the hoofirons, steely ringing. . . . Etc. Happy June 16.
Can’t say I like seeing Noonan’s name in the LU, but wtf. 80 degrees at 8 pm in hotlanta? And that ain’t no dry heat. Let’s see how Lincecum takes it.
not to mention all the beers and shots he powered down last night on his bday. A deep haze was probably cast throughout his hotel room, too. He might puke on the mound. haha. But hey, you never know, maybe he was in bed by 11pm stone cold sober. Being the ESPN game might have forced him to make an adult decision….
Guess who just gave up a 3-run walk off to the Mets? Yep, Marmol. And yes, he does have a negative dollar value this year…
why he’s even on the team still makes no sense to me. Cut your losses! And to ever put him into a save opp, wow, it makes Sveum look positively dim……
After Tulo’s injury, this interesting poll and column appeared in the Denver Post . . .
The Rockies entered their weekend series vs. the Phillies tied for second place in the National League West, 2½ games behind Arizona. Can they maintain their footing during shortstop Troy Tulowitzki’s absence?
Total Votes = 428
Yes, there’s hope: Tulo’s injuries are nothing new and while his offense will be missed, Rockies have capable fill-in players for the next month.
232 Votes, or 54.20 %
No shot: The Rockies’ tenuous grip in the NL West is going to slip away before the all-star break; they were one major issue from implosion.
196 Votes, or 45.79 %
(Note: This poll is non-scientific and is meant to encourage reader discussion.)
Woody Paige wrote this column regarding the Rockies . . .
http://www.denverpost.com/paige/ci_23470398/woody-paige-colorado-rockies-come-food-thought
I don’t like Woody Paige typically but I appreciated the direct, frank approach to the way he wrote the column. He didn’t hide his opinions or feelings about the team. More writers should write like this. Sadly, too many are afraid of upsetting players or team management. Paige isn’t a beat writer so he doesn’t have to worry about those things. Still, nice to see it written so candidly….
Yeah, I dislike Paige because his normal mode is “homer,” especially regarding the Broncos. By the by, this is a more frank column/article by their beat writer, who does more than hint about their issues . . . Also, this is where I got the info about Yorvit’s ownership of race horses . . . http://www.denverpost.com/rockies/ci_23470400/rockies-survival-mode-until-injured-troy-tulowitzki-returns
I’d disagree with that second sentence, at least for guys like Henry and Baggs. If you say a guy should have hit the ball in the air instead of on the ground with a runner on 3rd and 1 out, OK. But to say said guy should go down and another guy brought up, no.
Last week both were calling for Hembree to come up in the wake of bad outings by Kontos and Ramirez. Mgmt dumped both but instead brought up others; let them be the GMs and just report what you saw.
Flav, did you know that Rockies catcher Yorvit Torrealba owns nearly a dozen race horses? I had no idea . . .
no I didn’t know that but it’s not all together surprising. A lot of pro athletes own horses. I wonder if he races them at Arapahoe Park. I’ve never been there but it’s a low-level track in terms of purses making it unlikely that he races them there.
Second again !!!!!
I think what happens is that by the back nine, Phil’s mansierre gets sweaty and affects his back swing. And the moderate to severe plaque psoriasis is known to flare up in stressful situations,,,
More heartbreak for Phil and for big fans of his like me. Woods finishing a dozen shots off the pace soothes the pain a little bit. Congrats to J Rose–very well done and a classy winner as well.
Schilling ragged on Timmy on virtually every pitch. He had a couple good points, but enough is enough.
So I’m thinking Blanco and Perez are the CFers, Pagan in LF. I don’t care about Pagan’s ego or if he gets into a snit.
I’m quite sure that if there was a CF platoon it would be Blanco/Torres as the LF was. Torres is an excellent CFer and he’s hitting .324 BA .372 OBP .808 OPS against LHers.
maybe that’s Torres’ problem on defense. He’s befuddled by the angle in LF….Yes, that’s a joke….
That’s just my opinion , but I have no idea anymore what’s going on with Torres in L:F.
I’m referring to my opinion as to who the CF platoon would be if they moved Pagan to LF.
Timmy throws so many wasted balls in the dirt. There’s a time and a place for that pitch and he almost never finds the right time or place
I guess I wasn’t clear about Blanco and Perez in CF over Pagan, I was talking about a defensive upgrade. Sorry, but so far this year I don’t see Torres as an upgrade over Pagan defensively.
In CF Pagan is our 4th best defensively.
Maybe 5th.
Then IMO Torres would be 6th or 7th. For whatever reason, Andres is looking more and more like a DH to me. Again my opinion.
I’m starting to wonder if they should go max-defense of Perez-Blanco in the outfield when Lincecum and Zito pitch. Then again, they also need all the offense they can get when those two pitch.
Perez is the 5th OFer. As far as Pagan, I guess a lot of people don’t realize that Pagan lets a lot of balls fall in front of him because he plays so deep. The best CFers have always played shallow.
That is a fantastic idea, Mac
Belt, Torres. Pathetic
Noonan is overmatched at this level
Agreed
My wife is on the verge of catching the first flight to Atlanta just to permanently silence that woman who screams on almost every pitch.
How many “Human Outs” can one team sustain in a single LU?
Unbelievable, something is wrong, big time.
OK, I changed my mind. I would only play Torres in CF if Pablo wasn’t available.
Torres is going blind.
How low can you go with a – for Torres and the idiotic UZR stat?
It’s a not an idiotic stat just because you don’t understand it, Craig.
I understand it. You clearly don’t have a clue about it if you rank Torres highly on defense. Or is your head in the sand on all these impossible to believe gaffs?
Keep firing off the WaR stats btw, I know you like to throw out shit that most people don’t understand, only to make yourself look superior. It’s a great “conversation starter” though, right Twin?
Go fuck yourself on the “stats I don’t understand”. I understand everything.
And twin, after your bullshit “Flavor don’t get it” comment, it might be a good time to bid good night to the blog.
Why are you being abusive? UZR is an accepted stat in the front offices. And I haven’t once said that Andres has beeen good in LF. UZR, as fangraphs cautions, is most reliable with 3 years of data.
When you start a comment with “you don’t understand it” and then respond to my ire by crying once again about me being “abusive” then you might be the most clueless fuck on the planet
Well, if you are caliing a stat “idiotic” that is utilized by ter front offices , it sugeests that you don’t understand it. But regardless, you were and are being abusive and there is no call for it.
Hey, call me stupid again. Then see how “abusive” I can get in your ass
I didn’t call you stupid, Settle down.
Huh? I don’t get it. Say it again slower for me
As Fangraphs says in regard to UZR:
“Since defensive statistics are still relatively new, they should not be taken as 100% dead accurate. Before drawing any conclusions about a player’s defense, look at a full three years of defensive data, drop the decimal points and take an average, and compare UZR scores with other defensive metrics (DRS, TZL, etc.). By taking a broader picture, you will help ensure that you’re not being over-confident or overstating a player’s defensive abilities.”
I have posted many times that defensive metrics have a long way to go in terms of accuracy and usefulness. That is fact. Same thing with WAR. And for you to pompously suggest that I “don’t get it” is beyond absurd. I read, study and understand all the saber stats, “pal”.
They are also improvements over the dinosaur stats and if properly utilized, extremely useful. For instance, Vungo’s posite UZR in LF this year is not reliable. His career 10.2 UZR/150 in CF is useful.
“On” sorry– iPhone
Might be OF help coming yet…. Gary Brown, given up for dead, hit another hr today, his 4th in 6 games (7th total). Still at .233 but .405 and sporting a 1.274 ops last 10 games.
Torres is completely befuddled out there. The reason I’m pissed is I haven’t seen a game since lasgt Sunday, and at the least they were scoring runs. Tonight? 342 LOB . . .
After tonight’s performance, I don’t see how Torres gets many more chances. Cut his ass.
Considering how he’s hit LHers, they would probably try to figure the problem before they’d cut him. But we’ll see..
Nice inning by Dunning anyhow.
Kimbrel gets an extra 6″ ?
Well one thing tonight’s game proves, if you don’t score you don’t win.
I wasn’t a Schilling fan going into this broadcast, and I’m even less of one after it, if that’s possible.
Tim needs to make some adjustments; but to say that ALL of Tim’s success in baseball over the years has been in SPITE of his motion, is one of the stupidest things I’ve ever heard a broadcaster say. Schilling walks into the booth tonight, watches a ballgame, does a total hatchet job on Tim’s throwing motion, and then considers it a job of broadcasting well done. What a doofus. No wonder he sunk all his money into an epic failure of a software company.
Well said Zum . . . I didn’t see the game this evening (I went to see an excellent movie, Now You See Me. See it if you get a chance).
There are quite a few broadcasters I dislike, but Schilling I detest. He is up there with Tim McCarver and his doofus partner (can’t remember the fuck’s name, but he is from St. Louis). However, those two are harmless imbeciles compared to Schilling, who I consider a racist and Tea Party card carrying member. I tolerated him last year when the World Series was going on, but to hear that he commented on this game and Timmy particularly in a clueless manner, gets my blood boiling. Regarding your last comment – Yeah, I hope that software company emptied his entire bank account. It couldn’t happen to a nicer (NOT) guy.
There’s surgery being discussed as a possibilty for Pagan, he’ll probably get a rehab assignment before they decide ( as per Baggarly and Henry). Bochy said he’d be out 6-8 weeks if he had surgery.
With all the injuries, to be 1 1/2 games out of firstplace is pretty amazing.
Alex Pavlovic @AlexPavlovic
Torres said he lost the first one in the lights. The second one? “To be honest, I have no clue what happened. I feel terrible.”
Alex Pavlovic @AlexPavlovic
Bochy on Torres: “He’s pretty upset with himself. But this is the group that’s going to be out there and we’re going to stay behind him.”
Henry Schulman @hankschulman
Torres apologized in dugout after 2nd misplay. Bochy called him a “gifted defender” whose had a couple of off nights, and he’ll be out there
Take the comments as you like. With Pagan still iffy, I don’t see what else to expect from Bochy, who very often gets rewarded for his patience, BTW.
How do all these comments translate into a uzr number? Cause I’m still…just….not…gittin’ it….
ROFLMAO
sorry, *blush* just could not help it
too, too funny
I was in brew pub watching this one.
No more patience with Torres. That’s two defensive FUps again. Enough with lost it in the lights. Nobody else is losing it in the lights. And, you don’t lose grounders in the lights. If I’m pitching, I don’t want his ass in LF, period…
As for Tim, it’s brutal watching him pitch. I can easily tell his plant foot is landing way too early in respect to where his arm is. No wonder he’s throwing all the fastballs up. He’s just totally out of whack with that motion. Put him in the Pen, I can’t take watching this much more, yet he still battles and only gave up two, really, with the Torres gaffes in LF essentially giving them one…
Hey, by definition, it was a quality start. (grin)
It was a quality start.
Tim’s not going to the pen off of this outing, you know that. And the person in charge of having patience with Torres or not having patience is Mr. Bochy. I’d imagine he’ll stick with him as long as he hits LHers as well as has. With that said, I think most reasonable people would figure that there’s something going on for a defender who has been as good as Torres to play so poorly now. Behind the scenes, I have zero doubt that they’re looking at every possible explanation. Just my opinion.
That was responding to Snarkk.
They better find the “explanation” soon. His defense is ridiculous. To me he looks distracted, maybe his ADD is kicking in again and his meds are off kilter. The other day Flemm was incredulous when Torres ran right in back of Blanco while Blanco was making a catch near the track, that Torres almost caused Blanco to drop the ball because of how close Torres came “backing up” when there was no need for it. I think something is going on, too…
Either not taking his meds or having the dosage wrong could be an issue. Extreme distractibility is a common symptom of adult ADD. “The concept of “distractibility” in attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADD/ADHD) usually means that people are unable to block out unimportant distractions or visual distractions in order to focus on matters at hand.” ( from Dr. Larry Silver, author of “Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder: A Clinical Guide to Diagnosis and Treatment For Health and Mental Health Professionals”. He is also a clinical professor of psychiatry at Georgetown Medical Center in Washington, D.C..
In 2009, BTW, I noted his penchant for being too close to the OFer fielding the ball. He seemed to get over it, i noticed it on a couple plays recently. I’ve been as perplexed and disappointed as anybody with how he’s played defensively.in LF. Any suggestion to the contrary is not factual.
While the injury bug is on, put Torres in CF and Blanco in LF, see if Torres stops the Keystone Kops routine if he’s in center. Blanco is obviously better than solid in LF. The switch might work in that respect. If they trade for a starter, I think they might put Tim in the Pen. He cannot throw a fastball strike on either black to save his life, and that’s going on now for well over a season. It’s time to fish or cut bait with him. Amazing how he battles, though, when he can’t even friggin’ find the area code of the plate with a fastball. The hitters just sit there most of the time with bat on their shoulders waiting for the count to start at 2-0, essentially…
Except for his 1st start in May, his next 3 starts that month were so putrid, that I was ready to give Timmy a “wake up call” to the bullpen . . . So what happens? He pitches lights out against Atlanta at home and in my mind, he gets a reprieve. Fast forward this month (look at the stats Flappers), he has actually made incremental improvements in his 3 starts in June (1, 2, and 2 runs for each start and from what I have read in the Gate this evening, Torres’s error may have accounted for one of those earned runs).
Anywho, we have no one else to take Tim’s spot, so he plays on in my opinion.
I had to go back and double check his stats . . . Mea Culpa here. Yes, he only gave up 2 runs to the Pirates in his last start (prior to Atlanta this evening), but he did that in 4.2 innings, i.e., not a quality start as I assumed. Sorry.
Unlike many of his starts, Tim’s velocity was pretty constant- although he had some 92 and 93 early, he was still at 91 in the 6th on a warm night.
Torres really can be blamed for having a big hand in two of the runs, while only one of them (the 3rd of the game) was officially unearned…
BleacherReport article ranks Giants farm system 28th after the recent draft, wherein it calls the Giants draft “baffling”…
Yeah, we haven’t discussed the draft too much, but I really don’t know what the Giants strategy was (selecting the two HS position players).
Cardinals are the best team in MLB right now, and their farm system is ranked #3…
The biggest reason why? Easy. Wainwright. He notched his major-league leading 10th victory Thursday by tossing seven scoreless innings in a 2-1 win over the Mets. His ERA down to 2.18 for the year. Meanwhile, his K/BB ratio sits at a ridiculous 97/7 K/BB over 103 innings. He’ll look for win No. 11 next time out in another favorable matchup, this time against the last-place Cubs.
Happy for him . . . Especially since he pitches for my 1st place FL team. 🙂
The draft was terrible. But I think we have the deepest group of promising pitchers we’ve had in my memory.
Wow! Wil Myers was called up to the Majors. I have him in one of my FL leagues. I think Flav has him in the Flapper league. This kid is supposed to be Puig II. We shall see . . .
Night all. It was a nice day of comments by and large.
Re: BF’s 10:55 today and this draft talk, why can’t the Giants come up with a Manny Machado, Puig or Trout once about every two decades?…
Posey, Lincecum, Cain, Bumgarner, Romo, Crawford, Belt, Sandoval… who has a bettter group of homegrown players under 30? Maybe someone does, But I’m not coming up with any. Timmy still counts, IMO. His contributions to the two WS titles can’t be dismissed.
Can’t sleep. I appreciate Snarkk’s comments on Torres. It’s absolutely reasonable to be dismayed by his defense but Snarkk is also reasonable enough now to see that there might be a problem and certainly a medication issue could be at least a part of it. If his defensive problems can’t be resolved, at some point they will have to look to other options. But for now it behooves them to do everything they can to see if there is resolvable issue behind his troubles. And as I said earlier, Bochy is often rewarded for his faith in his guys. BTW, Baggarly, after strongly criticizing Vungo’s play in LF, added this, ” Angel Pagan is likely to come off the disabled list within a week, if his hamstring cooperates. And Pagan is likely the fourth best defensive center fielder on the team.” Vungo isn’t 5th or 6th, people.,,, Baggarly went on, “Yet he has his pride, and he hasn’t played one inning in an outfield corner since 2010 with the Mets.If Pagan is not moving well, Bochy is going to have to make the same concession that he did in 2010. That’s when he abandoned Aaron Rowand, the established veteran making the big money, and put Torres in center field. It wasn’t easy to deal with denting Rowand’s pride, either”…
BOO HOO! Where’s BOZO?
Well it’s not going to be fucking Torres in CF. That’s laughable considering his incomprehensible defensive mistakes this YEAR.
When I started the conversation on CF it was after Blanco made an excellent play. I also mentioned Perez over Pagan because Perez is an outstanding OFer. I didn’t mention Torres and that seems to have started all this. In 2010 Torres was very good at all OF positions, this year, for whatever reason he looks lost out there. He leads the major leagues LFers with 5 errors and that’s just in 300 some odd innings and only the ones that were ruled errors. So at the moment, I don’t feel he’s better than Pagan or even Belt for that matter. Sorry, I don’t know if it’s the meds or if Yungo just got Oldo.
Baggs also said this “No, this game was decided in left field, under the shadow of the giant cow mascot of a fast-food joint.
Andres Torres couldn’t make a difficult catch in the third inning. Justin Upton did in the fourth. And then, if the difference wasn’t stark enough, Torres let a slow, rolling base hit make a mockery of his major league skills in the sixth.
Ramiro Pena ended up on third base on a single that wouldn’t have eluded a Ball Dude at AT&T Park.”
Bozo, I didn’t see Torres error on Pena hit (watched Spurs roll Heat periodically), but I saw the earlier one and I’ve seen a few others. Looks to me like as ball gets closer is when Andres loses sight of it and is moving his glove to where he thinks it is. Add in a 0-3 with a couple Ks on a night when guys in front of him got 5 hits (posey pence belt), I’m sure he takes it hard.
But…the quotes from Baggs are what I dislike most about him. He has an angle and an edge that I just don’t care for, and comparing a mlb ball player to one of the Giants creaky ball dudes is out of line.
The Giants never scored all night, so they weren’t beating anyone regardless. Teheran pitched well and so did the Braves pen guys. Blanco and Craw were 0-8 at the top and Pence left Posey on base couple times too, as did Arias and Noonan. So no, imo, that is what decided the game, the Giants as a team unable toput runs on the board, not solely what happened in LF.
I noted that Baggs first strongly criticized Vungo’s play in LF, as he should, But comments llike Pablo or Belt would be better in CF can’t be taken be seriously so considering that Bozo is an intelligent man, I’ll presume he’s joking.