An Autumn Moon Lights His Way
With the Bruce Bochy era now officially on the clock I thought it would be a good idea to re-post this gem from Letters to The Green at The San Francisco Chronicle (2006):
At least the headline was clever. After that? I was wrong about Bruce Bochy…
I’m out for a couple of days, I’ll change the thread if something crazy happens. Otherwise, Big Flavor is on hiatus for a bit……
A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball 
You and I were pretty rough on Bochy early on.
I resented his Padre pedigree.
Any recollection of Twin’s opinion on the pre-championship(s) Bochy?
Ramble On!
I’ll admit to being skeptical on the Bochy hire. I just didn’t find the guy to be that inspiring. I remember Twin claiming he was a baseball man respected throughout the industry or something like that. Can’t argue with the results now, especially the 2010 post season run where every move, every decision Bochy made was golden.
I think his 2012 managing was best. Down every series essentially.
Coming back from 0-2 down to beat the Reds at their house may have been the high point of the Giants 3 in 5 run, in terms of pushing the right buttons, and nail biting baseball turning out great. That game 5 win in Cincy may have been the best, most exciting, nail biting Giants game I’ve ever seen. Posey gran salami off Latos was epic. Post season baseball doesn’t get any better than that game…
Agree, winning those 3 on the road, tremendous. Bochy’s managing in 2010 post season was stellar, just blew away Phils and Rangers managers, and 2012 too. Funnily enough, and I’m not going to look this up, but other than MadBum and Peavy, I don’t even remember who started in the 2014 post season…. How the hell did the Gs’ win that year? Obviously on the back and arm of Big Country…
I think Hudson and maybe Vogie also started, but Bum 2014 was like Hershiser 1988.
He won that series as singlehandedly as a pitcher can. That’s when they should have torn up his contract and locked him up for 7 years at a fair price…
Vogie had some good starts iirc.
I have a football question. Whatever happened to clipping penalties? I seem to remember loads of clipping calls, all the time, years ago, and while I don’t actually get to see many games now (only thru video), I can’t recall the last time I saw it called. Was it abolished as a penalty? Or are players now just trained not to do it? Or am I basically out to lunch on this….
“Illegal block in the back” is essentially clipping above the waist. They call it on just about every punt and kick off. Maybe they call that now instead of clipping, which is the same thing only supposedly below the waist. Punts and kick offs are almost a penalty waiting to happen, whenever they happen, on the receiving team…
Ah yes, have definitely seen a lot of illegal block in the back calls. But those clips, where the defender launches into the back of the runner below the waist…. some of them were nasty penalties. Just don’t see it much, which is not a bad thing, I was just wondering what had changed…
Willie, thanks for the correction on Darren Baker. I read “Darren Baker, California” in the magazine and I didn’t think of it being the University.
And to Loo for pointing out the age numbers didn’t add up.
So Darren was a little older during the ’02 World Series? Still way too young.
yw. there was series of columns in Chron couple weeks ago with outlook projections for local college baseball this season. Baker’s pic was in there.
I don’t remember much enthusiasm for Bochy until the “Donnie Two-trips” game in 2010. Bochy and the Giants pulled a victory out of that game against the Dodgers like a rabbit out of a hat. It was such an alert move by Bochy that we were all stunned. From there on out, the season was on an amazing trajectory.
That was 100% the moment that Bochy seemed to blossom before our eyes and it just went on from there…
Not only that, but it also woke up the team and they started to get it together
The 2-trips game was 2010? Goddamn, I would have lost that bet. Thought it was much later, like 2014. Anyway, I will be playing poker for a few days. If any of you are up here hit me up.
Yeah, I woulda called 2012 at the oldest that coulda been.
I’d like to know how the analytics guys determine players belong in a line up. what goes into that decision beyond simple L/R splits, individual numbers vs. SP, OB/slugging yada yada. In the case of younger players, what do they have to go on? Even vets go up and down, good seasons and drop offs and all hitters go into slumps. And few of Giants have much power anyway.
Just looking at who SF has now, I would guess Bochy has his everyday guys on the IF plus Posey, though he could use Solarte vs. LHP for Crawford or Panik. OF would seem more open to platooning, with Mac and Duggar getting most starts and Parra Slater Maybin rotating in. Doubt Shaw makes cut but ST will be interesting to see who does survive.
You guys brought up one of most amazing things about Bochy, what he was able to do with his team in playoffs. Even in the years Giants had to strain to get in, once they got there he was lights out brilliant, 3 for 3 batting 1.000. 2014 he had Ishi Blanco and Juan Perez in the OF and still won.
The only Bochy postseason snafu I can recall was 2010 Game 3 vs. Braves, when he pulled Sanchez, who had been dealing, put in Romo, and Cox got the lefty-righty matchup he wanted — I think Eric Hinske, who hit a go-ahead HR. But the Giants bailed Bochy out with the improbable comeback in the 9th, capped by the lousy 2B’s error. Otherwise, yes, his moves were dead-on perfect in those World Series runs.
I guess the only other one was yanking Moore vs. the Cubs and the endless parade of ineffective relievers that followed.
Machado to the Friars.
That game was a fricking heart attack for me and the family as we missed the home run going from the house to the car on a drive to LA. DIdn’t see the highlights till the next day.
Machado to the Pads? Wow. $300 mill over 10 years is the amount bandied about. San Dawg got his guy but for the wrong team.
And Manfred of course blames Harper for not being signed. What a tool.
https://sports.yahoo.com/rob-manfred-blames-bryce-harper-230444778.html
Really surprised a team spent that much money/years though I understand there is an opt out for him half way through. hmmnn
A necessity if you sign with the Pads!
Looks like Harper’s price just went up…
Didn’t Harper say $400 mill a couple years ago?
My godson lives down there and goes to lot of games. For past few years he has spent few days at their ST, mostly checking out younger guys and prospects on outer fields. Guess Pads camp and games will be a lot more heavily attended now!
Let’s see what other dominoes fall next.
Playing in San Diego would be a gas, win or lose…..
Except for those pesky taxes. Do ball players get taxed differently for games played in different states? Or even Canada?
my understanding is that they get taxed in whatever state they play in. So if you play 4 games in Texas and 3 in Ca that week, you pay taxes in Texas and Ca. And so on and so on throughout the year. But maybe one of our Flap lawyers can get more detailed than that.I can’t imagine who’s doing these guys taxes, it must be incredibly complicated.
Osich got picked off waivers today by the O’s. It’ll be interesting to see if their pitching coach can fix this guy. Huge fastball but it’d get crazy once it got near the plate….
wow.
I didn’t realize until taking a look at last year’s standings that the 4th-place Pirates finished over .500.
Mixed feelings on Machado. Makes the Pads more relevant and fun to watch, which is cool for a guy like me who goes to 7-8 Padre games a year. Also makes them more of a problem for the Giants—not so cool.
Let’s steal their thunder by announcing a deal with Bryce tomorrow.
Giants’ season opener is at San Diego. I’m guessing there might be more Pads fans for that one.
For sure.
I’ve been saying this for a few years and it has yet to materialize, but the Pads have good ownership now and are building something formidable. Pitching still an issue, but scoring runs is going to be no problem.
PLUS, they bust out the awesome brown uniforms full time next year and that will really blow the roof off this thing.
I’ll probably miss Boch in a few years….
Smarj talks a lot for a guy who really sucks. “The opener” and “bullpenning” were INVENTED because of pitchers like Smarj.
Smarj hates analytics because all of the analytics say he sucks. The Giants were one of the last of the teams to sign a guy to “eat innings.” Few things make the new GMs laugh more than the idea that a guy’s redeeming quality is that he is an “innings eater.”
Brett fucking Tomko was the proverbial innings eater.
Love that first line, Zum.
You sound like you’re from Brooklyn…
I think there are innings eaters in the HOF…
I wonder if Machado knows that the Padres are going to wear the dookie brown unis a lot this season. They should pull that jersey out for the press conference. They hand it to Machado, and he’s all: “What the….”
Pre-game: Machado gets his hair fixed just right, and then looks down at his dookie brown uniform and gives a depressed sigh.
he’s a tool. That deal is going to be heavily regretted by San Diego…
Machado to the Pads. Would have won a healthy bar bet with that one back in November
I’m shocked that he got so much money considering his “hustling is not my thing” quote in the playoffs
they might get a year or two or real production out of him. He’s got his contract and doesn’t seem like they kind of guy who gives a shit about much else. Plus, this is the Padres. It’s like when the Angels sign someone. It’s the telltale sign of a fucked up move….
Have they come out with a “hustle” stat yet?
Ask Pete Rose.
Ha ha! Don’t think this’ll hurt the Giants at all, Dawg. THe Giants’ problems are all their own. For a young team on the rise, I think it’s a stupid move. One to generate buzz. One made for the casual fans. Kinda like the previous regime was wont to do. He’s a prima donna of the highest order.
As much as I don’t really care for Harper and all his baggage, it isn’t shit compared to Manny Me.
Granted these aren’t all bad, but if I’m the A’s catcher, I pop that punk in the face. The intent to hit the pitcher with the bat was obvious.
R. I.P….Don Newcombe
He’s gotta be right in your wheel house, eh?
Never saw him pitch, Flav.
I broke in back in ’63…
Dominant but not quite HOF pitcher and a better hitter than Madbum, iirc. But Newcombe’s life was turbulent. After he kicked alcoholism he returned to the bums and represented them with style and dignity. Then in the 90s Coors used his image, in the middle of his distinctive windup, in a SI beer ad. This was the appellate decision in the case. He won.
https://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-9th-circuit/1106923.html
I published an article about the case in ALM’s IP magazine, in 98. A Pitch for the Right of Publicity, was the title the editors gave it. Luckily enough, the article does not seem to be available on-line now. 😉
Btw, the patch this season will honor #44 abd Magowan. Greenwald and Robinson are out
Can you guys understand why there is all this renewed Harper dreaming on Twitter right now? Z knows what’s up, hes moved on, that’s why he signed all these retreads over the last week. Now just cause Machado signed KNBR is spending all day jizzing about Harper again. It makes zero sense
I feel very good about my Tom Goodwin for Giant manager prediction.
I think he’s the perfect choice…
Giants only want to offer 5 years and a zillion dollars ,a dealbreaker as Harper wants the 10 years like Punjab’s Machado got.Difference is Harper will get his jersey #34 as in 10 years 340 million from the Phils..Book it!
Punkass
Ah, auto-correct. Our friend and foe. 🙂
Whenever I see a picture of Bochy without a cap, it just doesn’t look right.
I wonder if the Reds would wear a patch for Pete Rose when the time comes…
Absolutely. They aren’t keeping him out.
Rose has to hope St. Peter didn’t lose any bets on the Reds to win on any games Rose managed…
RE: McCovey
How many times do you think they’ll show the statue out in the cove and K & K will say: “I miss that guy”
In this case it’s true. I really do feel bad about the guys we lost over the winter…
If you are confident in yourself as a player, I see no diff between a straight 5 year deal, and a 10 year with a 5 year out clause. If I am an owner, I never give the latter. There’s no upside to it for you, all downside. Say you have two competing paint contractors to do your house. One gives you a straight 5 year warranty, the other gives you a 10 year, but he gets to inspect the paint condition after 5 years and then can unilaterally cancel the next 5 years, or agree to cover the next 5, but only if at his discretion he can charge you more now that he’s seen the paint job. Who would take the latter warranty?…
That was kind of my thinking too, especially given Harper’s young-ish age which would allow him to get yet another 5-year contract at age 31 (if he remains healthy). But of course most will want to take the guaranteed money for as long as possible….
Is it just me that thinks Machado usually has kind of a stand-offish facial expression? Maybe if he smiled more he would look more friendly.
Naw, it’s more of a hit-me-in-the-face-with-a-shovel look. I love the play where Machado gets sideways because Donaldson tagged him.
Pete Rose has turned out to be completely self-destructive. His gambling addiction ruined his legacy. He’s admitted that he’s never stopped betting on baseball to this day. He thinks he’s just fine.
The thing that supremely annoyed me about Rose was that he only came clean on the gambling, after 14 years of throwing everyone around him under the bus, including his wife, to shill his fucking book.
It just occurred to me that dumbass Smarja has insulted every future manager he might have.
Only took me 17 hours…
Yeah, but the managers won’t know they were insulted unless the GM tells them.
Tool or not, SanDawg is right about Machado to the Pads not good for the giants. In his adjustment to NL mid season he hit 13 bombs in 66 games .487 slugging .825 OPS. None of the dumpster dives the Giants have added will come close to that and we’ll see who else of current returning guys can as well.
Dodgers (so far) DBax and Rocks haven’t done anything much to improve yet but Pads are another matter.
The Giants don’t need to worry about other teams. Everyone is better than them. They need to figure out how to get competitive again, Machado coming to the NL West is a non issue right now.
And he’ll teach the kids on the Pads how to lollygag to first, how to spike first basemen and how to throw your bat at opposing pitchers. He’s a fucking tool.
As with the last 150 moves by the Padres, it’ll bite them in the ass.
Agreed
NL West is who Giants compete against, and there are other teams on edge of WC that got better like Mets Phils, even Reds. Dodgers and what everyone else does are first on radar though for me. If others improve and Giants don’t, lot tougher to compete when you have to play them 18 times a year.
That’s all I want, for the team to compete and have a shot at playoffs; this means .500 or better and Pads just got closer to that, imo.
Wonder if there is any kind of no trade in the deal.
Pads also have the best farm system in baseball. Adding Machado only accelerates their rise in the standings.Hate him are not,which most flappers would say yes, at 26 like Harper puts up solid numbers every year.
Baer and this owner group needs to strike while the irons hot and get the younger “Face of the Franchise “ in Harper, who’s also a PR dream,Merchandise dream,over a million followers, he will add more butts in seats just cause of his presence just like Barry Lamar Bonds did back in 93…
Well, we are toast for the next couple seasons at least anyway, Willie. We are not on the edge of anything. We are at the bottom. Which is why I’m not thrilled about throwing a 10 year deal at anyone right now. Yes, we COULD build around Harper, but do you think he wants to be a part of a team 2 years away from relevancy? In a park where he is hitting into death valley? I highly doubt it.
The things that have to go right for this team to compete are numerous. Even with Harper. Sure, it’s possible that the Bochy announcement can galvanize the troops for a month or 2 but I see a big fade by July, if not earlier.
Pads have what— something like 5,6 players in the top 100 of the minors, plus more depth there. Unless the ratings services are a complete joke, Pads will be very good by next season, assuming they pick up an arm or two. Giants look like bottom of the NL West Barrel now…
. . .with or without Harper. Which is why he ain’t coming here.
Huh. Never knew it was Newcome who loaded the bases for the shot heard ’round the world in ’51.
I didn’t either. I also didn’t know he was the first pitcher to win the Cy Young.
At the risk of being annoyingly picky, it was two runners on, not bases loaded. 🙂
I thought the score was 4-1 at the time . . .
Well, he had a 3 run lead . . . one of the runners scored before the shot.
Great question from Alex Pavlovic – “Do the White Sox still have to keep all the dudes that are friends with Manny Machado?”
Flavor are you going to wait till the end of the season to take predictions on who the next Manager will be?
Speaking of managers, what ever happened to Steve Decker?
Early manager odds have Matt Williams(no freaking way especially after Boch schooled him so bad in the playoffs &losing all respect from his players in Washington)
Eric Chavez hmm 🤔 interesting,moving up the ranks among peers.
Mike Matheny, another guy schooled by Boch..
Omar Viquel, Joe Giradi, and a shitload more including Will Clark and perennial loser candidate Ron Wotus who will never get a gig..Bam Bam not even listed..
Farhan probably will have his own guy in mind over this bunch..
Matt Williams? I think I’d rather have Bob Brenly.
Me too..
I have heard Bob Melvin’s name come up. But I cannot find when his contract with Oakland is up.
Kevin…I believe they recently reupped with Melvin till 2021 at 3.5 mil. Wonder if the Giants could still swing a move somehow, cause Melvin would be a great choice, along with his bay area ties and being a former Giant.
I have a hard time seeing a lot of those listed potential candidates for manager being onboard with all the analytics. The new GMs basically want to make out the batting lineup every day. They will never say they are making out the lineup, but they “strongly suggest” a lineup to the manager that day, and the manager knows what’s best to keep the job. An older veteran like Madden will have more leeway. But I doubt Roberts is coming up with all those crazy platoons the Dodgers do on a regular basis. No manager would come up with all of those on their own. The fans don’t really like it. Dodger fans wanted to see Puig in the lineup on a daily basis. Now, with the Reds, we’ll finally see Puig out there just about every day. It’ll be interesting to see how that works out.
I think it was Stengel who “invented” the platoon thing.
Hodges and the ’69 Mets swore by it…
Ignore my Tom Goodwin brainstorm at your own risk.
Other than no ML managing experience (BFD), he’s a perfect fit for this crew now and in the years to come.
Look him up!
I’m with ya on Goodwin, Loo, but maybe that’s just because I was thrilled to see him playing in an independent league game in lil’ ol’ Somerville NJ after he was done in the majors. Seemed to me to symbolize the whole “for the love of the game” thing, which is old fashioned but heartfelt.
Glad to hear that, Paul. He always seemed like a real good guy, not too old or too young (like 50), from Fresno, been to WS as a 1B coach in NY & Boston. Managed in minors. He’s ready. Let’s bring in some new blood. This team needs a major transfusion!
I don’t know why I read some of the stuff on the MLB site. First story there now has the teaser “Will Giants react?” to SD signing Machado and then the whole story pretty much says no, they won’t. Just say no to teasers.
2 former Giants that often seemed to be pegged as manager material while they were still playing: Stan Javier, and Omar Vizquel. Haven’t heard much about them lately. Vizquel would be cool. Oh and yeah, Steve Decker was often mentioned. Here we are, speculating about a manager for next year. Kind of indicative of the “who the hell knows” sense about the team this year….
Bochylitics is what the new manager will need to learn over analytics if he’s going to be successful..
Some sportsbook posted this as the odds for our next manager.
This list is ludicrous. Eric Byrnes? Rickey Henderson? LaRussa? Barry Bonds? Might as well put George Foster on the list. Decker was the guy who was supposed to be groomed for the spot. Not sure what his status is with the team now.