Five Years And What Are We Really Doing?
The embarrassing run of failure continues. Honestly, I don’t want to judge Farhan and Kap off this collapse. It’s the end of the year, they’re obviously out of gas and they have nothing to play for. Farhan has proven he can dumpster dive. There’s no question about that. But you don’t build a world series contender just being good at dumpster diving. I am not optimistic about the farm system he built. They are decently rated but the proof is in the pudding. And so far, this pudding has underwhelmed.
I guess I’m ok with one more year of these guys just to see if I’m wrong about the farm system. But that has to start producing or, you know, what are we even doing here.
A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball 
Hey, shooting for .500 I guess.
All aboard, so now I guess I’m hopping on the Brew Crew beer truck, and I guess in the AL I’ll be rooting for Boch’s Texasshats.
“Sounds like the Swifties are also part of Chiefs kingdom”, said Travis Kelce. sales of his jersey up 400 percent, lol. What a wild story
Flavor, you captured many of my critiques of 2023 Giants. Farhan’s continued pursuit of journeyman players doesn’t equate to being competitive with elite teams. My frustration runs to all levels of the organization: ownership, front office, manager (especially if there’s veracity to Big Lead article – see below) and most importantly the players themselves.
I’m sure we’ll all have postmortems next week. For now I recommend article by Ryan Phillips in Big Lead characterizing mood in Giant clubhouse especially after losses. Perhaps this offers backdrop to comments from Webb Monday night.
Mr. Phillips article is brief rehash of what info from what Baggs said in TA with no new insights. I posted something end of last thread where I said I think as regards clubhouse Webb is out of line. He’s super competitive at everything card games included, fine. But you can’t wear that 24/7 or you’d explode. At some point you have to leave the game and what happened, good or bad, at the yard and move on.
I still believe in Pops Stargell’s mantra from 40 years ago (probably older than that) of not to get too up or too down. This is blueprint for getting through 162 game 6 month season, not ranting/raving tearing up spread yada yada. Everyone deals with failure in their own way. If Webb didn’t like what he saw, did he ever raise issue with Craw or Kap before telling Baggs?
Good point and you put story in more proper perspective. I’d like the know whether there is any fracture in clubhouse or perhaps just Webby and couple other more competitive sorts who may prefer more disciplined clubhouse.
That’s what is mostly left out. From 2021 team there are still half a dozen players like Craw Yaz Flores Slater Wade (Estrada briefly), plus some pitchers like Webb Wood Tyler Rogers plus Brebbia and Doval who have idea what it takes to be successful and how you bounce back from bad games and Ls.
Yaz and Estrada addressed the team with comments about picking intensity up. so who are the problem children? Doesn’t seem like it would be the rooks, as I’m sure if one of them got out of line response would be forthcoming instantly about rookie mistakes and what not to do in given situation.
Willie, I think Webb was talking about playing the card games before a game instead of studying that night’s pitcher and blasting music after a loss (Bob Marley at that), which apparently isn’t usually done in a clubhouse.
Did he say something to an offending player about it? I don’t know, but maybe he did, and it just didn’t do anything, so he went public.
The majority of vets are mercenaries and won’t be back next year so maybe they just don’t care about the culture of the clubhouse that much at this point.
In Ball Four, Bouton referred to it as “false sorrow” after most losses with the expansion Pilots,
but not so after being traded late season to contending Astros…
Brooks Robinson, RIP.
The guy, compared to today’s players, wasn’t the greatest all around athlete.
He wasn’t the greatest hitter, but he hit, and in the clutch.
But, man, the guy was a pro — he could pick it and throw it. He looked like a lunging bear, but going after a grounder or a hot shot at third, the guy had twinkle-toes, lightning reactions, hands like pillows, and a quick release throw. If Schmitt has half his skills, I would take him at 3rd for the Giants and let him play for 15 years…
He was tremendous for sure – went into the hall with Marichal I believe.
But as I’ve said – day in and day out give me Nettles who I saw 100s of times…
I’d take either one in a heartbeat…
I’d take either one in a heartbeat…
BTW, I’m picking a World Series of:
Atlanta v Baltimore, and Baltimore wins
I miss the God Squad…
Again, my biggest issue with Farhan is his inexplicable ignoring of the stolen base. With all of the changes it was a no brainer to focus on getting guys who can steal these bases for nearly free this year. Why pass on that?
All I got is the 100-year-old answer:
You can’t steal first…
Exactly. Giants team OB is 12th NL.
elly de la cruz of the 33 SBs/8 CS, has OB of .299. Hitting .185 with .234 OB off LHP, and has twice as many ABs vs. RHP, so Reds must be platooning him. Being fastest guy who is walking back to the bench isn’t doing his team much good either.
I seem to remember that Kapp had people running in Spring training, and waxed prophetically about stealing a bunch of bases in the regular season. I don’t think I’m imagining that. The post-mortem to me is that this was a team with a bad mix of relatively old and oft injured vets who were just fair-to-middlin’ talents when healthy, with green rookies who other than Bailey, were not ready for prime time. The pitching was abused the first half to 2/3 of the season, and as many here predicted, has accordingly cratered somewhat the last 1/3 of the season. Bad clubhouse chemistry or juju or whatever that story is turning out to be is secondary IMO, just a symptom — the primary cause of the failed season is flat not enough good ballplayers between the foul lines…
Well, Willie, my point is where have we gone? We are entering year 5 and we have Bailey and a whole lot of questions. Webb is damn sure fine for calling out the players. Not because they are chumps. But because they are mercenaries. Rodon has come and gone, Gasman has come and gone, Conforto is out the door, Manaea is going as well. When you build a team with 1-2 year guys, you are constantly replacing, not rebuilding.
Who stays? Haniger, Joc, and Stripfuck. Yippee! Slater? I’m sure we’ll throw him a bone because he’s the best pinch hitter 3 years ago. Davis? Yaz? A year older and more than likely injured.
We aren’t better than last year, let alone when Farhan started the rebuild. We are treading water.
If he signs Bellinger and Max Kepler I’d be thrilled. Are we? Or will it be a one-and-option for Tommy Pham? He and Joc can fight in the OF every game.
Hey, we can re-sign McCutcheon.
I get it. but I feel different. We finally saw all the rooks get here and there’s potential I didn’t see with likes of Walton and Yermin Mercedes. The pitching is good, should be lot less use of openers and bulk guys and Webb and Cobb and couple others I feel are more established. If you can get full seasons as SPs out of Winn and Beck that could mean lighter workload for pen.
1b 2b and C are figured out, and hopefully Luciano has SS. Less sure Davis is answer myself but he’s a better one than Villar was. Next year should be lot more fun than this one, imo, and minus a few of the more boring older guys.
My take remains same–yes Giants are ways away but they aren’t much worse off than lot of NL teams outside ATL and LA, and maybe MIL/Philly. DBax likely make playoffs but are 13 games behind Dogs and only won season series vs. SF by 7-6.
1,2,C figured out? Wade? Estrada? That is true if you have some Betts / Freeman/ Seager Trea Turner types elsewhere in the lineup. On the top teams these guys are the players at the bottom of the lineup. I like Wade, but 17 HRs and 45 rbis from 1st base likely among the worst in the league. He will be 30 next season and this is the only season he has ever had even 500 AB’s
I love Baily, but he is hitting .238 with 7 homers. A classic old school defense but minimal offense catcher. I know he is young, and tired but it may be a case that pitchers have found the holes in his swing. Will he adjust? I hope so…
PS Such a bummer that we are playing games that don’t mean anything after such a promising season at the 1/2 way point:(
Whole lot of iffys there. Then again you look at the guys coming up and I see a lot of guys who are bad at running the bases, throwing to the right guys, defensively unsound, and just not very fundamentally solid play.’Except for Bailey.
100%. Annoying how low a baseball IQ some of these guys have. Always a mystery to me. Haven’t all these guys been playing for at least 10 years before they make it to the big leagues? I played 10 years worth and was “retired” after my 10th grade season!
We had guys on my sons little league team who knew what base to throw to!
Estrada isn’t playing cards.
As has been pointed out, Zaidi will need to make some trades with some of our rooks/prospects this offseason. It’ll be interesting to see how big he goes, Baggs thinks Harrison might be one.
you can say whatever you want about Elly dela Cruz who has a shitload of holes in his swing. Guess what? The Giants have 54 stolen bases this year. 2nd worst in the league is the shitty rockies at 69. Their inability to steal bases is INDEFENSIBLE.
Stealing bases is a thing now. And it’s easy as fuck to do. Put guys in scoring position. Who among us is against that?
I had to look it up cuz you didn’t say, but Elly’s got 47 steals and was caught 6 times. I know one was Bailey. Thing is, even our young guys are slow. Matos is one of the squirrelly guys I was referring to earlier about not being the brightest bulb in the marquee. He should be a base stealer, but he really isn’t fast or have the feel for stealing. Ramos? Has he even tried? Luciano? Is it too much to ask for these guys to be running?
No, he’s got 33. And he’s struck out 139 times, 3rd most on team in 400 PAs. Exciting when he does get on base but he’s below average hitter, and Reds bench him vs. lefties
Estrada is the only guy on our team with double digit steals. He has 22, Freddie fucking Freeman also has 22, how weak is that?
The Reds do lead NL in SBs, with high rate of success and they are 5th NL for runs scored. And this has won them exactly 2 more games than Giants. But if you dig them, cool
Well at least they aren’t boring as fuck.
the reds are playing a bunch of rookies who gained a lot of experience this year. They will win many more than the giants next year.
Mid season with their call ups reds went from a team of lousy boring losers around one possible future HOFer to a team of dazzling risk taking rookies giving Votto something to enjoy. Attendance skyrocketed. And, I agree, they’re well prepped now for next year.
Wibur looked like he rolled that to 1st. He shouldn’t be playing 3rd base.
Manaea pitches through the mayhem.
And another infield hit.
And another! E-2.
A 2-out hit AND a steal from Fitz??
Be still my heart.
I made the clod hopper argument back in ST, when commentators, anticipating the larcenous impact of bigger bases and v ltd pickoff throws, rated every team’s roster speed. Giants were near the bottom. Joey Bart was our third fastest baserunner, after Thairo and Slater.
Manaea is a great guy. I’ll miss him.
Is Wilmer’s arm injured?
No, it’s old. Is Manea opting out? I haven’t heard either way.
Im just pessimistically guessing he will leave given the way Kap’s jerked him around and given the shitshow in the clubhouse. He is guaranteed a good pay raise if he stays, though.
Yeah, I’dlike to keep him. He’s a battler if nothing else.
Looked good on that throw.
Yes
Speed on the bases. Anyone else remember a player stealing 2nd twice in the same game?
Hope Manea stays. Looks like he is figuring things out!
I happened to switch over to the reds game that day when Elly hit a single and then stole second, third, and home in quick succession.
A Giant? No.
Damn!!
Pretty good Wilmer throw there.
Yep, I guess that answers that.
I thought his lob to second, just barely getting a third out, looked odd. But he got it. He probably knew what he was doing. And I didn’t.
Hey now. Spoke too soon.
Southbound Suarez? This ain’t our Suarez is it?
Now we run.
RUN!!!
Why isn’t Luciano running?
It can be tiring…
God, move him over sac fly in. Why do we make everything look so hard.
And the air mail!
Bailey mistook the umpire for the SS.
It happens…
Bailey is out of his mind. WTF???
Currently puking in the Brebbia aisle.
It was actually a good pitch.
Our CF was positioned in right center by some computer I guess…
Yeah, well the 2 errors before that didn’t help much either.
Right, just hate to see poor Brebbia get blamed…
Fuck this team. Lose every fucking game. Throw the ball around like little leaguers. 3 errors a night. God, this is fucking sad.
The team sucks.
Think of it as reliving your teenage years…
I’m 62 years old and I’m faster than Wilbur.
Fourth place.
The announcers on KNBR post game are yukking it up so much you’d think the Giants won. Webb’s complaint definitely doesn’t apply to them.
At least Kruk made a fleeting comment on the bad D that cost them the game…
My enduring memory of this season is the constant blown opportunities with the bases loaded.
The stats may disagree, but it seemed to happen dozens of times…
Giants played like they didn’t understand how extras work these days. Padres knew. What a laughable end to a tied game. Is it just that the mgr and enormous coaching staff don’t drill this? Maybe they touch on it with ST PowerPoint slides and cartoon videos.