Winning Despite Our *Ace*
As I said on the last thread, I was prepared for Snell to have an *outie* year. But this has gotten ridiculous. In the post gamer he said he is usually better in the 2nd half because he’s gotten to know the hitters in the first half. What? He’s been pitching against most of these guys for years. And for the guys he doesn’t know there are these things called “scouting reports” that he can refer to. All he does is throw off speed shit anyway. Fucking nibbler. Sure the K’s are there but what’s it gotten him? Zero wins, 10.42 ERA.
He’s proving to be an outrageous bust.
A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball 
Snell and Montgomery both have been busts. Farhan’s one plus one year contracts are the new black.
Best case scenario is Snell pitches well enough in June to be traded in July when Ray gets off the IL.
they aren’t in the same category. Montgomery has at least won 3 games. His ERA is 6 points lower! Six points! And he sucks! Lmao
Soler is the other worrisome guy. He’s had ample opportunities and has pretty much failed every time. He’s got time but this isn’t good so far.
Interesting discussion in TA from Baggs and bloggers on how to cover 1b beyond Flores, who I really hope can get going. Wisely? Sabol? Belt? Send Luciano down and have him work on it at Sac? Wisely at 1b, adding LH bat to lineup, means Luciano retakes SS…everyone OK w that?
Wade’s injury is HUGE not only is he their best hitter(.333) and leads the league in OBP but the Giants don’t have a LH bat to play 1st base with Wilmer a hamstring away himself and will get worn down playing everyday.They now only have hitting LH Bailey,Yaz,Wisely when before injuries had an abundance of Lefty hitters.Lee&Conforto also.
Wisely? at 1st a desperate move,Call up Sabol to play there even worse, no good options besides Mr.Ed playing everyday..
Chuck, Giants are 9-2 in last 11. Guys are gonna run hot and cold; Chapman having good month (.814 OPS in May) but has cooled off a bit lately. I’ll give you one–this player 4-23 w 1 one BB and 0 extra base hits in last 5 games.
Know who he is? Luis Matos. OB is down to .292, OPS to .705 barely above league average. Still batting leadoff and playing CF every day, as Melvin has left him in there and hasn’t moved him down or out of lineup… to everyone’s approval, no?
Well they have to play the kids which is the right thing to do and yes still plenty of growing pains, but winning helps with that.I would be moving Ramos up in the order and dropping Matos down.Ramos should be batting no lower then 5th with Soler 6th.Estrada is their best leadoff candidate but even Wisely occasionally while he’s hot I think could be okShort term especially with Wade out the Giants really could take a flyer on Belt if he’s staying in shape u could a lot worse Geez LH bat that plays a good 1B and LH DH occasionally it’s a nice role to fill with all their injuries ( of course Belt’s an injury waiting to happen but it’s worth the gamble )
I love Estrada D at 2b and help he’s trying to give Luciano. OB though is .271, definitely below average. Dunno who can handle leadoff really.
Off the top of my head, the only quintessential lead off guys the SF Giants ever had were Butler and Lofton (for 2 months). Sure I loved Bobby Bonds but too many K’s for that era. I’m probably forgetting guys. Torres in 2010, I guess. Don’t give me Harvey Kuenn, Bill North or any Alou brothers. Randy Winn’s juice fueled 2 months when they got him in 2005 was as off the charts as it gets…
Pagan? Couple good years after Saves got him from Mets. Funny, when I pulled him up on phone pic shows him giving salute, kinda like what Giants do now after hit.
Pagan hit 15 triples and 38 doubles in 2012. 8 of the doubles led off games. No PS without him in 12, 14 and 16. Played CF fairly well. He gets forgotten too easily, I think.
Aaron Rowand didn’t impress you? Me either. But Kenny Lofton, all too briefly, yes.
And really whole definition of leadoff hitter has changed so much especially w universal DH.
E.T. McGee? The pride of Diablo Valley Community College?
He had some success batting leadoff for us.
Remember Ron Hunt? Guy was awesome, couple years w Giants as he bounced around. Considering how often he got hit, 243 times in 12 seasons, amazing he’s still alive at age 83.
Dan Gladden?
Love him are hate him Brett Butler by far the best leadoff hitter the Giants ever had.1988-1990 in his 3 years,he was incredible.High batting average,(.290 lifetime)125 SB’s OBP average.380 ,career .377. Shit he averaged close to 700 AB’s unheard of today, and was always a pest ,didn’t strike out much for all those plate appearances ,plenty of walks, other then Ricky Henderson ( best alltime)Butler was solid.Those are what true leadoff hitters accomplish..
”And really whole definition of leadoff hitter has changed so much especially w universal DH.”
This. One of the reasons the Giants dropped in the standings in ‘22 was because they were swapping out Webb’s comparatively good bat for a a lousy leadoff and #9 hitter.
You still want a high OBP, and someone Xbase power. The #2 hole is for the new cleanup hitter. In a better lineup, Wade Jr would be ideal, Wisely is a great #9 hitter.
The media can be so wimpy. I read a couple of news reports that said Angel Hernandez was a “polarizing and controversial figure.” Yeah, one pole thought he was an incredibly terrible umpire, and the other pole thought he was an incredibly incredibly terrible umpire. A real controversy.
ESPN 2 ran the multi-part Bill Walton documentary, and I ended up watching some of it. I had forgotten that his NCAA championship 21-22 shooting performance was in his junior year at UCLA, and he went back for a senior season, and that senior season was messed up mainly by Wooden’s inability to adjust for the way young people were changing. Wooden flipped out about length of hair and whether the players smoked the occasional joint, and if they were war protestors. Wooden was kind of a lost old guy wondering what happened. Wooden did manage to win one more championship after that, but he was probably really looking forward to retiring.
If you haven’t read Walton’s book, Back from the Dead, it is very good.
It’s on my list!
Walton preferred playing with Greg Lee instead of Tommy Curtis as point. Wooden didn’t like Lee who had gotten busted for pot and banished him to bench. NC State beat him as senior for NCAA title.
Walton later in life came to regret lot of things that happened in Portland too. Reading David Halberstam’s fascinating book “Breaks of the Game” that takes up Blazers season couple years after they won the title and couldn’t even make the playoffs, lot of things going on as team fell apart and winning group either retired due to age and injury or got dealt elsewhere.
Portland owner was tightwad but Walton was being paid handsomely, something that bothered black players including Maurice Lucas and Lionel Hollins who were traded away. Walton sued team doctors and won settlement against team. He also fell out w old friend Jack Scott and local newspaper writers. He wound up back home in San Diego with Clippers but foot problems still weren’t solved and he rarely played again til finally having one good season with Celts.
Funny thing too about NBA: Lenny Wilkens coached Portland for 3 years (2 of them in last playing years) before he got let go and Blazers hired Jack Ramsay. After Portland won the title Seattle bounced them out of playoffs, now coached by Wilkens who reveled getting revenge on them. Washington beat Seattle for title and Wilkens returned favor year later.
Pavs says bunch of moves: Wade Jr. to 10 day (for now) IL, McKenna and Poms DFAd. Fitz is back along w 1b prospect Trenton Brooks and RHP Spencer Howard.
Spencer Howard??? Wtf Who? 😳 is the opener tonight against Wheeler oh boy !
115 innings pitched 137 hits allowed 99 runs off of him with a 7.80 era 3-11 record 3-11 lifetime! Gawd how does Z keep finding these stiffs.Jeffries stunk enough now this chump?
The Trenton Brooks move I can understand, since he’s a LH 1B they can use for awhile with Wade out for who knows how long…
Geez Poms never got in a game lol 😂 as Eddie D would yell out to Trestman in the press conference “Your Gone” nice touch Eddie…
MLB Network is saying Miller is the opener.
Better off with Spencer Haywood…
Yeah I was even thinking Spencer Davis lots of great hits ( I’m a Man,Gimme some Lovin etc)like Spencer Howard will give up..
Unfortunately he’s dead 💀 back in 2020
remember when the singer was called Little Stevie Winwood?
KNBR reports Pomeranian spent 3 days on the roster, threw some in the Pen a couple of games, never got in a game — and earned $1 million for the “effort”. Nice job, Farhan…
Mets blow the save vs. the Dodgers, and it’s tied 2-2 now, with the Mets coming to bat in the bottom of the 9th.
Mets blow the bases loaded and one out. On to extra innings.
Pen game. Miller is the opener. Did Pomeranian even unpack his bags?
Two of the kids are going. Tix are $26 for lower box on the 3rd base line.
Shit. Mets blow the oppo. bases full, 1 out, 3-0 count, and they can’t get the run in.
That doofus took the 3-1 pitch for a strike. He should have been ready to unload on that pitch
Yep. Dogs up 3 now in the top of the 10th.
The Mets suck. But we already knew that.
Yep, Mets pissed this one away.
Wade has grade 2 hammy strain.
Out minimum one month…
I have a grade 2 education…
Not in baseball or other sports. As Dean said you remember a lot, constantly amazes.
Pmz good enough to sign. The release 3 days later?? Farhan an idiot. Again
Apparently we need to bone up on infield D and and sliding 101 in the minors!
From the Athletic….
In Thursday’s game, Brett Wisely was facing Aroldis Chapman with two outs and the go-ahead run on third base. Wisely got behind in the count, 0-2. He still got the go-ahead run home with a single.
Would you like to guess how many left-handed batters have gotten a hit off Chapman in an 0-2 count during his 15-season career? Go on, guess.
8. In 15 seasons!
wow win faceoff and pp goal by Rangers.
Almost had another.
I saw a 1974 headline on Twitter: CAN A SOCIALIST, SEVEN FOOT VEGETARIAN MAKE IT IN THE BIG LEAGUE?
Losing JH Lee for the year, IMO, was a huge loss, but the team has adjusted, and as long as Matos’ hitting doesn’t go off a cliff, the team can absorb that loss. Wade for at least one month is huge as well, tough guy to replace in the lineup. Been paying a bit of attention to Bryce Eldridge in the minors, possible future 1B guy, some similar buzz that I remember Belt getting in the minors. He’s not quite ready yet (turns 20 in October), but good to see someone in the pipeline for 1B. I actually wouldn’t be opposed to bringing Brandon back for just a month, but likely won’t happen, they’ll fill it from within. Just hope it’s not more than a month for Wade..
“That’s manly!” says Kruk. Sounds like an old Irish spring commercial.
“Manly, yes, but I like it too!”
ha! The proto gamer babe.
Fucking Chapman is a God.
The Kids are Alright but he’s MVP.
so Bohm is not playing tonight? No clanks at 3B? The star of the terrible 2018 draft?
Yeah that really was a terrible draft year in 2018!Geez even Kyler Murray in that draft, like the cheap ass A’s could of ever signed him..
#1 Mize a bust,#2 Bart probably thought the Giants nailed the pick but no sadly a bust.#3 Bohm is probably the best but still nothing special..
But hey the draft will be saved for the Giants #45 pick Sean Highway to Hjelle who’s maddening at times but is beginning to show life support success at times this season!
I think Murray was the best player drafted. And i think you are right about Hjelle. I had no hope, but here he is.
Definitely a Manly play by Chapman!
K&K drinking the KOOL AID with Soler! He’s so close to breaking out 🤣🤣🤣
What breaking out below the Mendoza line?
Bazooka Bailey guns down another strike ‘em out throw him out DP!!
Hun Brooks wears #61. Reminds me that Walton, doing commentary on U of Oregon basketball, used to call Ducks forward Louis King “Louie the king” like guy in Dylan song Highway 61 Revisited.
Wheeler not quite as good in the hockey game.
It wasn’t his fault, Mac. Comatose Mika gave it away…
Fair point, probably had to take the penalty.
Oppenheimer split atoms easier than Soler can square up pitches.
The Bay of Pigs was a better idea than signing Soler…
JFK got shot for that. Zaidi probably won’t.
Do tell
the Giants fans who get excessively pissed off at Zaidi are far too lazy to try anything as challenging as a front office assassination. They’re all bluster.
Wilbur and Yaz are the popup kings.
Yaz didn’t strike out, I’ll give him that.
Have to hit for yaz imo. Easy out there
hats off to Howard. Great job in 4 innings against a loaded Philly line up
Hard to believe he’s 3 and 11 lifetime…
When I leave the room and come back, it takes a minute to know which team is which…
the Phillies road grays aren’t gray enough, for one thing.
Yep. Nice play by Jelly Man.
Calling a walk off single by Soler!
el Cubano can’t get lit.
Well, got the best guys up.
Oh, boy. Can he ? Will he? Nope.
runner on 2nd no outs back to back innings and not one hard hit ball. GRR
Damn
Pfffffffffffft.
Soler is a huge disappointment. He hasn’t done jack shit.
Jelly man with the hold!!! Dude’s really come around.
Jelly Hjelle.
Has Hjelle always thrown 96? what a great inning, 3 harmless ground outs.
he’s added pitches, velo, and zone command. I think he’s also improved his graceful elongated windup so that it’s quicker and more deceptive. Completely different pitcher.
Hjelle yeah! C’mon bottom of the order!
Flores got him over. 2 shots to get him in from top of order.
Just need one. Come on Matos!
That’ll do. Hell yeah!
Ova! Giants win pitching duel, what a ballgame.
Yes!!!!!!!
Luis baby!
That’ll work!
just a few weeks ago the Giants looked like scrubs vs Philly. Now they go toe to and win. Twice. The kids have supercharged the team.
Slater starts his rehab work in Sac soon.
Beat Wheeler with a pen game. Bit of a shocker.
Opener, rookie and both Rogers guys helped shut them out and blog didn’t explode on Melvin.
so glad to see good pitching and D return.
HELL YAY!! Flores the key. Clutch Matos!
Thank god it didn’t come down to Yaz.
Matos wanted the rbi. He was lit.
And no Doval!
I love it when we take a 1-0 game and it being Philly makes it all the better.
#45 pick in the 2018 draft Hjelle made me look good tonight!Steal
of a terrible draft at this point..His stuff was filthy! And props to the whole pitching staff and Spencer Davis-Haywood-Howard blew me away with his composure in his Giants debut!Great win shutting Phillies out,10 wins in last 12 keep rolling and Sweep them out of town!
You deserve credit for his great nickname, Kat. It may have turned him around…
If they put their minds to it, the Phils (60 years later) can duplicate their notorious collapse of ’64…
lulz.
LHP going for Phils on getaway day so hopefully Luciano back in lineup at SS. Maybe Fitz gets OF start in corner.
Luciano and Fitz? Let me count the errors. . .
You want to see Yaz starting vs. LHP? Dunno what ultimate plan is for Fitz but it’s not SS with how well Wisely has been doing unless they ship out Luciano, so only room for him is in OF.
Remarkable pen game shutout yesterday against a stacked lineup…
fangraphs shows that Hjelle’s mph has steadily improved over three seasons and that he has dropped the change and added a cutter. SO rate is down, but so is his WHIP. I still think his balletic windup is slightly quicker, too. Hell, maybe he’ll continue to get better.
wonder how this came about, but he’s wonderful turn around story.
I guess it’s a little early for a writer to jump on the story.
Appreciate specifics you’ve already provided.
If Hjelle can maintain command he’s wonderful addition to Melvin’s options in late innings.
yeah i bet that new zone command links directly to the lower WHIP.
Hoping Harrison can limit the HRs today in a day game. Gotta find a way to keep the ball down…
Yeah, the ball’s gonna be jumping today. Should be pretty warm out there.
Ask and you will receive Willie.. Though I don’t ask for but still receive is Soler and it’s criminal he’s batting ahead of Ramos who continues to get bent over in where they bat him in the LU..
Confrmed LU
RF Matos
SS Luciano
3B Chapman
1B Flores
DH Soler
LF Ramos
CF Fitzgerald
C Casali
P Harrison 4-1 3.90 era
RF may be an adventure today. Matos’s improvement in the OF, though, is another good back story waiting to be told. Last year he couldn’t judge worth a shit, especially balls in front of him.
Also Thairo batting 3rd.
Oops thanks MacDog ..my bad yes it’s better to play with 9 fielders Yes Estrada 2B batting 3rd! Right side would be pretty exposed without a player there and helps on DP balls etc..
When Murphy gets healthy, what do you do with him?
He was a defensive disaster when he played. Casali has been real glue guy jolt to this team, his D isn’t super, but far better than Murphy, and his pitcher handling skills are demonstrably better, plus he knows a bunch of the Giants pitchers. There is no way Murphy should come back to kick Casali out. Trade Murphy and keep the pitching chemistry in sync…
Murphy wasn’t hitting anywhere close to compensate fot his atrocious defense. This team needs all the defensive edge it can get, which is why Yaz isn’t going anywhere and neither should Casali.
Best trades of the year would be slater conforto Murphy asap
They’ll get:
– Bag of balls
– Fungo bat
– Rosin bag
Actually, Conforto might fetch a mid-level prospect.