What If Doval Was Just The Cooler’s Cooler?
Here me out…it’s all been Doval’s fault. Bad body language. Bad luck. Bad karma. Bad juju. Bad everything. And now that he’s gone and doing the same thing to the Yankees the tide has turned in our favor. Fortuna spineth upwards.
Any chance this is how it’s all going down?
A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball 
no, but I had essentially the same reaction. A sort of hoodoo-spell frisson. What if he’s just cursed? But no.
take that route and pretty soon you have to wonder what necromancy turned Rafi D into a colossal K machine.
For one night, script flipped. We win. New addition Butto makes good first impression. Doval and other two new Yankee relievers implode. And good guy Yaz homers in first AB for Royals.
Too bad we have to come back to Citi Field today. Starters next two days should still be refining their skill sets in Sacramento. And then Verlander to open Pittsburgh series. And forecast for rain in northeast next three days?
Great to get revenge on Diaz, when Giants could have done it twice in SF.
Matos AB yesterday said it all for me: over aggressively struck out on pitch foot above letters. This has zero to do with Pat burrell or any hitting coach he has had at any level. Multiple players admitted bad play is on them and it’s equally on them to get it back going in right direction.
I get there is a segment of fanbase that wanted Posey to go all scorched earth when he was hired. He hasn’t done that at ML or minor league level for managers or coaches. Could happen at some point in future, but as he said in quote, a player’s career is in their own hands.
Understood, Willie but what is Burrell or any off field coach responsible for? Do they only try to help if they’re asked? Who knows?
Even best teams can be streaky over course of 6 months. Mets have lost 4 straight after sweeping Giants. In june Dogs had 11-2 streak, followed last month by 2-10 stretch. 64 win Tigers went 1-12 last month, including being swept in Pittsburgh. It’s baseball, stuff happens. Meanwhile Marlins held onto Alcantara at deadline and continued upswing last night.
Doval is a “JOHAN” so yes having him gone obviously can help,( he’s the Yanks headcase now, as NY fans will be tossing him under a subway train soon are over the Brooklyn Bridge)but unfortunately they still have more on the team specifically Burrell,Willams,and Melvin so as long as they’ve around sucking up precious oxygen in the dugout they’re is no hope..
If Posey took off his loyalty badge and atleast dumped Burrell&Williams earlier he would of had a chance to do what he really wanted to do be a buyer is his 1st year of running the show then sadly having to SELL SELL SELL..
“I get there is a segment of fanbase that wanted Posey to go all scorched earth when he was hired.”
Certainly wasn’t anyone from the Flap on the day Zaidi was fired and Buster was hired (link below). Everyone seemed to be grateful for the end of the Zaidi era and beginning of Posey era. I don’t know of one person here who has changed their optimistic view of Posey, nor thinks this is going to take one season to turn around . . . I don’t anyway – as I said last night, this is going to possibly take 3 more seasons, not including this one. Posey should be given that opportunity going forward.
https://oneflapdown77.com/2024/10/01/farhan-out/#comments
Agreed, 2-3 year project. But there were certainly those everywhere that expected more of a house cleaning than just GM Putila. Instead he kept Melvin and coaches, and scouting directors plus only added Winn to oversee minors development and hired Minasian as GM. Not just on roster that lot of same faces still around…for now at least.
Buster’s Melvin contract extension on July 1st, was all about showing confidence in Melvin, as well as his coaches and players. He did this amid the team’s worst stretch of the season (ironically, he didn’t know it would get much, much worse later that month).
However, Buster is no one’s fool. Melvin is on the clock beginning April 1st and I think he knows that. Regarding his coaches – both Williams and Burrell have until the end of this season to prove they belong here. Just my take, but I believe they will be gone prior to Spring Training if they have not improved by the end of this season. For example, should Williams make another blunder at 3rd base, particularly one that costs us a game – Melvin will either do it on his own volition or he will get word from the front office (Buster) to do so. That being said, Williams is a Giants icon and as I said above, it will be done quietly in the off season. Burrell probably will get the same respect.
RIP Flaco Jiménez. Man. What a way to end the month.
I’m with blade. Posey needs at least 3 more years to turn around this damaged battleship that has been taking on water for years.
From blade’s link to the Flap on 10/1/24, when Buster was hired, below was my 11:05 am. It’s scary that I could have written it yesterday about THIS season and the Giants quality of play after May 1, especially the last 3 weeks of Keystone Koppery.
“Buster not surprisingly was pretty darn closed-mouth on specifics of what he’s going to do. Tossing Putila is a good sign — hopefully more Farhan people will be moving on. The whole organization from US and international scouting to minor league coaching up the chain needs immediate evaluation and review and new blood, if they haven’t already done that. The minors have to develop future major leaguers, not kids who get up there and have their heads on a swivel, and can’t throw to the proper cutoff man, can’t break back efficiently on a line drive, can’t visualize whether a pop will be a hit or not and stand frozen on the basepaths, run through signs, etc. These things matter, and show an organization adrift…”
Now, that is some irrefutable prescience!
Yeah, what BB said . . . Prescient post snarkk!
The Amazing Snarrk-skin!
“The whole organization…” well Posey hasn’t done anything yet to add new blood or fire anyone from it. I get the unhappiness, I have hard time feeling the type of wholesale changes you propose are warranted. We have POBO and GM in place.
Dom gets the start at 1B. I like that.
KNBR now about to talk with a guy with the current lowdown on the Giants farm system…
You gonna come back around
To the sad, sad truth
The dirty lowdown
Gonna join WillieD in dissent. The team OPS is 683. That boring, dry collective stat describes by far the biggest reason the Giants are where they are. They can break back perfectly on line drives all season long and they’d still be around 500 with those numbers on offense. All the keystone koppery — much of it courtesy of one buffoon in particular, Senor Vamos Ramos — is largely symbolic. They’ve scored as many runs as they’ve given up, which equals 500 ball. Clean up most of the goofball plays without hitting and/or pitching a lot better, and you still have a 500 team. As for the supposed organizational rot, do the scouts, coaches etc. focused on pitching get any credit? If so, what would account for their relative success compared to the others? In a different context, Flavor suggested teams are not like corporations. He’s right. Money aside, baseball leadership, management, and staff have far less control over the success of their organizations. In that dull TV interview Buster gave last weekend, he said as much. Which doesn’t mean he won’t make changes, because that’s also simply the nature of the beast. Let’s hope the team turns it around soon. Whether it does or not, there’s just a whole lot less cause and effect at play than we’d like there to be.
James, who said coaching was the “biggest reason?” Who said the “keystone koppery” was the “biggest reason?”
Said NO ONE ever . . . Go find me ONE post from a Flapper that attributes coaching as the “biggest reason” the Giants are .500 for the season and way below that over the last month or so?
tick tock tick tock . . . still waiting.
Where do I claim anyone believes that, Blade?
What? Multiple bloggers here have called for Melvin’s head, end of williams turn as 3b coach, Pat Burrell’s head, including right here in this thread! the negativity and doom has been all over the blog. And long before the losing streak.
Huh? So what Willie? First, that wasn’t the point of contention . . . James thinks everyone doesn’t know that the Giants OPS is the “biggest reason” for the Giants 1 month plus face plant . . . The symptoms of poor coaching; poor ABs; poor base running; poor fielding; etc., have been cited numerous times here. Again, so what? Even the “rah rah” Giants announcers are saying what Flappers have been saying since before the AS game.
Calling for Melvin’s head? Burrell? Williams? You question that? Extend their contracts? Dude, I think you’re the “Lone Ranger.” Folks are commenting on the games and there hasn’t been too much joy in “Mudville” for a couple of months now.
cause in fact is a mook’s snare. How the fuck could Buster have known that Devers would fail after the trade? Fucker looks like Statue of Liberty taking strikes. All Buster’s fault. He made the move. Bullshit.
I think what I wrote above agrees with this sentiment.
so do I.
Of course this team is where it’s at mainly because they have lousy position talent on this roster. And, a farm system that can’t help with that anytime soon (unless one or two of these new guys from the trades pan out). How many times does that have to be said here, and by outside media people? Is an organization, both ownership and management, to be excused for that predicament because it has shown to be somewhat good at picking pitching talent (let’s ignore Stratton, Bickford, Beede, Crawford)? Last time I looked, you need to pitch and score runs. As for that pitching, Roger Munter, a supposed guy in the know about the Giants farm (https://substack.com/@rogermunter, you can sign up for a free subscrip to get some info), just said on KNBR that there are no really good starter prospects on the Giants farm that will help the big club for the next two years. Lower minors, yes. So, for a while we’ve seen the best in Roupp and Birdsong. He said if Roupp’s elbow goes wonky, and Birdie can’t throw a strike anymore so that he maybe is only a reliever option, Giants starting situation is in real trouble next season…
There are also broader analyses of draft pick outcomes that basically conclude that it’s mostly … you guessed it, how high a draft pick is and, primarily, a whole lotta luck. You can get lucky or unlucky several years in a row.
The point remains that the players coming up through our system are woefully unprepared for the most part. And they have been for the past 8 years. Snarkk was right last year, and it still applies. Buster should have cleaned house in the minors/scouting.
So James, you are saying that the games they blew (say 2-3 by Matty, and 3 or 4 baserunning blunders) they would have lost anyway? By that rationale, there’s no reason to fix the problems then. Let ’em play like t-ballers.
At some point Devers gets his shit together and Adames continues his ascent. The rest? Who knows. Ramos needs to bat higher and do more damage for all his ineptitude.
And it still pisses me off to see Williams and Burrell still coaching. They’ve sucked all year.
Assuming none of those embarrassing mistakes happened, it probably makes a difference in a couple games. That is important if you’re competing for those final playoff spots. I don’t think coaching little league stuff to professionals will prevent them from making little league mistakes.
And less not forget how freaking shitty Burrell/Windmill were last year as the Giants hitters sucked overall ( only Fitz a later callup hit .280)..
The only thing the Giants did right and even that was fortunate when pitching coach Brian Price decided to step down cause he knew he stunk and JP Martinez took over the job after being an assistant pitching coach and he’s by far their BEST COACH he’s been outstanding..
Teng getting ZINGED ! HBP,Walk,Polar Bear 3run Bomb 💣 another hit ( single) and finally after 29 pitches he finishes the 1st down 3-0!
Never liked him last year much, and that hasn’t changed he gives up a lot of gopher balls like Seymour did a HR machine..
yeah it’s all burrell’s fault that Bailey can’t hit. No wait. It’s the fault of the farm system. Or it’s Buster’s fault for not dfaing him last winter.
When a few hitters in a row foul off multiple pitches, is it about an inability to put them away, the hitters’ skill (even though technically a pop up is better contact than a foul back), or a matter of luck? Undoubtedly all 3, but the third is a really big part of it, I think.
Yep only the Giants can have a bases loaded no outs and get I guess fortunate 1 run after a McCray DP ball and Ramos fly out with a runner at 3rd oh well as usual 3-1 now..
Another hard hit line drive for an out, though. Just as frustrating.
the dominator !
Dom-inator!
DOM DOING MAJOR DAMAGE AGAINST HIS OLD TEAM IN THIS SERIES!!
Nice 2Run bomb 💣 to tie it up 3-3!!
Teng settled down some after the 1st but still to many Mets reaching base..
Teng reminds me a little of Livan Hernandez. Here’s hoping ….
Another wonderful inning of defense.
Giants brain dead on the Lindor bunt.
WTF was McCray swinging at???
Good selection BB
Ramos initiates the Mets fans into the ways of Tyler.
Christ, I forgot how fucking overweight Sandoval was.
They better try to re-sign Rogers after the season, these relievers are painful to watch.
they’ll do it.
Despite Teng’s stellar Sac accomplishments (3.67 ERA, 1.11 WHIP and 86:21 K:BB in 54 innings), he’s obviously not ready for prime time. Ditto for Beck.
That “My Girl” Lindor shit is the most cringe thing I’ve ever seen at a sports event…
You could have relayed it to him in person.
It’s the crowd that makes me shudder. Not Lindor or the song…
Ahhh, in truth I wasn’t paying attention and didn’t realize it was the new “Sweet Caroline.”
Nimmo has 19 bombs, that’s been his game, not the inside out swing.
Inside the park homerun for anyone with wheels . . . or, I should say error. Damn, this game can’t end soon enough for the Giants.
Mea culpa – as Mac alluded to, we’re already missing Rogers after a single game. Ditto for Yaz (or anyway – at least his fielding).
Last night long forgotten. Back to reality.
Great divergent views permeating blog today. I lean toward players bearing most accountability for Bad News Bears baserunning and periodic head scratching defensive miscues. But coaches have role too and Pat the Bat must bear some responsibility for team wide lack of plate discipline. Same goes for Matty and recurring confusion among Giant runners once in scoring position.
Today Williams did hold up Lee on the play he scored easily on, but after quickly mentioning that Lee ran through the stop sign, it wasn’t brought up again. Williams poor judgement at third is a clear cut problem.
they never showed the stop sign Flemming said he saw. A quick alt camera view would’ve clarified whether Williams misinterpreted the moment so badly. No such luck. Then Flemming dropped it. Ridiculous. Flemming is a weasel. But he may have been right.
The Thrill went after the wrong brother, eh?
Matty only played 1,743 ML games at third. Shouldn’t that help in his current position 15 feet away?
Luckily, I missed almost all of this game today. Just watched highlights. Ugly. Pitchers got their butts kicked.
Oh, and more Keystone Koppery. McCray OF throw to nobody in the infield in particular, complete defensive chaos giving away yet another run on a bunt, Schmitt late to cover second and blowing a double play, Schmitt (his range is really not good at 2nd) diving too soon and too late so he doesn’t knock down RBI grounders going by, crazy wild pitch by Beck. I may have missed more. All that buffoonery — hey, no big deal. Only cost 3 or 4 runs, didn’t matter at all…