Immaculate Ineption
That’s 3 games in a row where they have scored in exactly one inning each game. ONE inning.
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That’s 3 games in a row where they have scored in exactly one inning each game. ONE inning.
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A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball
This year I’ve tried to separate the organization from the team. To me Posey is face of organization and is gradually pointing ship in right direction notwithstanding some missteps, e.g Verlander signing, length of Chapman contract.
But 2025 Giants are a moribund team. We’ve all cited the litany of problems on offense, defense, baserunning, etc. Posey’s job is to perform harsh, sobering post-season assessment of team’s weaknesses and make tough decisions including dismissal of veteran players, manager and coaching staff. If he fails to do so, first year progress under his regime will be lost or at least
Just a Brad Penny season. From Encarnacion, to Chapman and Schmitt getting beaned back to back, now Roupp carted off with knee injury. Survive final month + and regroup.
Giants also running out of pitchers–Miller was set to come back but still has injury issues, as does Tidwell guy they acquired at deadline.
Happy birthday to the great elder statesman of the Flap, WillieD!
Thanks Flav.
little past 6 AM our quiet half block of 3 apartment buildings across from my 4 plex place about 10 minutes walk away from Pruneyard shopping center had huge black truck parked on lawn across street with 5 police outside of it. In nearby driveway was smaller black truck and police on bullhorn yelling “come out with your hands up” etc.
Soon after there was an explosion in apartment in driveway. Street competed blocked off, across from where there’s large eBay complex. 45 minutes later police left and some came back later and displayed shopping bags full of something–weapons or fireworks and explosives idk. All quiet on western San Jose front and dog walkers reappeared as of now.
Man Willie, y’all know how to party out there. Windy and wet here but no black vans.
Happy Birthday my man, hope ya have a good one.
Luckily, I missed the latest crapfest last night.
But, I missed something that looks telling to us who think all has not and cannot be well behind the clubhouse doors.
https://aroundthefoghorn.com/seemingly-tense-moment-in-sf-giants-dugout-may-seal-manager-bob-melvin-s-fate
How can there not be with this free fall going on? I assume Adames isn’t complaining to Melvin about the pre-game spread. KNBR this morning has said nobody has explained it yet. Melvin just ignores Adames like he doesn’t want to hear it, whatever it is. Really bad look for Melvin…
Really bad look for Melvin…
I wonder if there’s any video of this dugout incident? Around The Foghorn is much, much more militant versus McCovey’s Chronicles (which I think is a subsidiary of the SF Giants . . . I kid! I kid!). So, here is there take on Melvin . . .
https://www.mccoveychronicles.com/san-francisco-giants-news/99550/mlb-2025-san-francisco-giants-news-bob-melvin-gabe-kapler#comments
Basically, this moron is saying that Melvin deserves 4 years like Kapler. Fucking hilarious.
blade – there’s a vid of the incident in the middle of the article I linked. About 11 seconds long. Adames clearly pissed about something. Melvin looks at him, then turns away and puts his back to him in dismissal to ignore the guy who has the biggest contract on the team. WTF ?
I don’t know if it’s showing up when you pull up the article.
Adames is so mouthy and foolish we’ll probably hear some version of his explanation of the imbroglio, eventually. He made a fine mess of it last night.
Ahh, saw it . . . Thanks snarkk!
Same article that I linked above, had this outstanding comment from a fan . . . For brevity, I only included his comments regarding the Giants draft woes . . . Read it and weep:
“And then there’s the ineptitude with the draft. It’s normal for a team to whiff on a couple of first-round picks, but there’s likely a problem evaluating amateur talent when a team misses this many-not just bad luck. Here are the 1st round picks going back to 2010 (different gm’s)
2010- OF Gary Brown (bust)
2011 2B Joe Panik (not a bust)
2012 P Chris Stratton (bust for SF)
2013 SS Christian Arroyo (traded for a bust)
2014 P Tyler Beede (colossal bust)
2015 P Phil Bickford ( headcase traded for Will Smith if memory serves)
2016 no 1st rd pick thanks to signing Jeff Samardzija.
2017 OF Heliot Ramos (well, the blind squirrel found a nut)
2018 C Joey Bart (bust, and then traded for a token minor leaguer)
2019 OF Hunter Bishop (bust)
2020 C Patrick Bailey (not a bust-on the defnsive side only
2021 P Will Bednar (colossal bust)
2022 TWP Reggie Crawford (probably a bust unless he can be healthy enough to pitch in relief)
2023 TWP Bryce Eldridge (break the curse !)
2024 James Tibbs III, (at least traded for someone useful).
( info per MLB.COM)
I went this deep with examples to show the depth of the draft ineptitude. It’s mostly a horror show
It might interest you to know that Jacob de Grom was picked in the 9th round in 2010. In the 8 preceding rounds the Giants selected:
Gary Brown
Jarrett Parker
Carter Jurica
Seth Rosin (at least traded for Pence)
Heath Hembree (traded for Jake Peavy’s last fumes)
Mike Kickham ( just ouch !)
Chuckie Jones
Joseph Staley
So no, Bob Melvin mostly isn’t responsible for the team’s failure. He’s had a lot of help.”
Not to mention the $12 million Farhan gave to the Angels to take completely done Zack Cozart off their hands (Farhan then DFA’d him immediately or shortly thereafter, I think) to get supposed top SS prospect Will Wilson — who never saw one second on the Giants MLB roster. I would call that a complete bust of a trade and similar to a wasted high pick, a very expensive one…
and that was to get Wilson who sucked at all levels.
When you look at the big picture it’s obvious the FO is terrible at judging talent. The draft is so important for team building and unity.
Unequivocally agree Winder. Snarkk was spot on particularly regarding outfielders.
Well, when you draft a retired NFL lineman, what do you expect?
Kickham when they’re up, Kickham when they’re down.
And, wither Chuckie?
Yeah, bad penny year indeed. It sucks that this is just gonna drag out to the bitter end as we stagger to 75 wins.
Buster should just hire himself as manager and try to light a fire under their asses.
MoTel is just a fence post. He’s got all the fire an imagination of a sloth.
I’ll post the Fangraphs article again on first round success rates:
https://community.fangraphs.com/success-rate-of-mlb-first-round-draft-picks-by-slot/
Note that where you pick in the first round has an impact on success rate. Based on those rates, it’s reasonable to attribute the lack of first round hits to chance. It’s only been 14 tosses of the coin. Panik and Ramos have not exactly been busts (and the jury is out on Eldridge and Tibbs). If you expand the time frame to 25 years, you get Cain, Lincecum, Bumgarner, Posey, and Wheeler. That brings the overall success rate more in line with the numbers in the article’s charts. The last 4 were all also top 10 picks.
I recently posted an analysis to show that there was significant staff continuity in the organization between Sabean and Zaidi. The latter’s efforts were generally focused on adding methodologies and types of staff employed by the tams that have shown the most continued recent success. Posey’s changes have also not been radical.
It’s certainly possible the Giants have vastly inferior staff evaluating amateur talent. I’m skeptical of that.
Explain how the Giants statistically managed to have one farmhand outfielder of real significance (Ramos), who makes an all star team in approximately 4 decades. Chili was an all star but that was with the Angels after he left SF.
I guess I would ask you to explain how in 4 decades the Giants managed to employ a series of scouts whose blind spot just happened to be 18 year old OFers. What about the scouts who found Maddox, Matthews, Clark, Davis — did they just lose the knack over the subsequent 10-20 years?
I posted the Hunter Bishop accolades and metrics the other day. Do you think the rest of the ML scouts saw through some kind of charade? That they were laughing behind the Giants’ back?
There’s just a shitload of chance and randomness across every aspect of baseball.
Maddox and Sarge are beyond the 40 years. Clark isn’t an OFer. You don’t answer the question. Either the Giants have not been interested in seriously scouting and drafting for OF talent for that long period, or they’ve just been terrible at it. I don’t understand the Hunter Bishop point, sorry. Other teams didn’t pick him, the Giants did, and he is just another OFer bust. Sorry, 40 years and tons of OFers in development over that time tells me the obvious OF failure is not random. If everything is so random, then shitcan the scouting department and have a chimp throw darts at the list of potential high school, college and internation talent.
Jack Clark was an OFer when he played for SF. You didn’t explain the mysterious dropoff after Chili — maybe they just got rid of everybody from the previous decade and hired OF evaluation deficient scouts.
I didn’t say everything is random, just that the outcomes of the draft in large measure are, with a few exceptions. There’s a limited number of players with the talent to play baseball, they need to be identified, and a consensus is usually built around them. Teams have different needs. Darts won’t do.
Are you saying no one else would have picked Bishop, if the Giants hadn’t at number 10? Bishop did miss 2020 because of COVID, and most of 21 with a severe injury. He missed another entire season with injury, too. Maybe he would have flopped anyhow, but to the extent you believe the minor leagues can shape a career regardless of talent, his experience wasn’t great.
The idea that a lone baseball organization simply can’t find anybody who has a clue about one category of player seems far-fetched to me.
You’re right Chuck, I didn’t give him enough props. AS for the Giants in ’84 and ’86, Angels in ’94, per Wiki. 10 years apart, that’s hard to do. I don’t remember why they gave up on him, probably money, Giants were cheap. He jumped in ’87 as a FA to the Angels. Careers .274 BA, 2380 hits, 350 HRs, 1372 RBIs. I didn’t remember his stats were THAT good. Except for BA, those stats are better than Will Clark.
“There’s just a shitload of chance and randomness across every aspect of baseball.”
Then you said . . .
“I didn’t say everything is random, just that the outcomes of the draft in large measure are, with a few exceptions.”
Huh? What’s the definition of “shitload?”
No of course I’m not saying nobody would have picked Bishop if the Giants had not. That’s stupid. But, they picked him round 1. So they obviously felt he had a future. He’s just one of many position player failures. Posey’s changes so far are hopefully not the only ones he’ll make, anyway we haven’t had time to see the result of them. And, I’m not talking about pitching development. My contention has consistently been the Giants have focused too much on that, at the expense of position player development. I missed the Jack Clark reference, my bad. Still, he started in the minors 50+ years ago. How far back should we go to prove Giants organization position player selection and development skills — Mel Ott?
Even as the #10 pick, Bishop was more likely to fail than not.
Some or all of the staff that picked 4 successful OFers in the late 60s and 70s — a spectacularly good rate — would presumably have been around in the 80s and 90s, too. They ran out of luck.
Oh, and there’s a good chance that Buster will be slow to make big changes to the larger org. He’s learning the hard way that in baseball you can make rational, smart decisions and still not look like you know what you’re doing based on results.
ATF can be fun read (I get phone updates) but not place to find much intelligent life.
One of their recent columns talking about woes of McCray and RF in general, they said, “the team could also give a chance to someone like Marco Luciano.” um, he’s hitting .218 at AAA ball, and like last year is still striking out about 30% clip. Giants have had many RFs including Matos up n down without every calling up Luciano. Pretty obvious he is not in their plans.
matos up with Peguero today apparently. I’d rather see matos in RF and flailing at the plate than fitzfuckup. Personal preference merely .
I agree 100%, I still think the Hissy Fitz tanked that popup with Luciano
In reality, the Giants had about 5 great drafts in the last 60 years. Sabean’s stretch from 2006-2010 netted them 3 championships. Before and after? Not much.
Snarkk, i think Chili Dog was an all star with the Giants.
84 & 86 (checked)…
Chuck, my 11:38 is replying to you 11:01. I can’t edit posts anymore so unforced placement errors just go where they go!
I wish SF had a Chili right now to anchor the OF. A very accomplished pro…
Hah! Yeah, Chili Dog was a total fave of mine. The late 80s team with Will, Robby, Chili, and Hacman was a fun team to watch.
Good article
https://apple.news/Akhk48rfVQIm2yikrPq1tIA
It is from the McCovey Chronicles
Happy Birthday Willied! You share the same birthday today as my daughter, my birthday is on Aug 23..
Yeah I miss Chili Davis he was a baller always! He took on any player(Scoscia for sure at homeplate rattiling teeth and bodies as Scoscia once said the toughest player I ever played against)
And before Chili it was for me,Garry Maddox 6 time GG but of course the Giants traded him ,gawd they made so many stupid trades as the players shined with their new teams and the Giants screwed the pooch in their returns.Still can’t believe Maddox never made an A/S team but the competition was pretty strong back then.
Still say one of the best outfielders I saw was LF Matthew,CF Maddox,&RFBobby Bonds.
Thanks Kat. have fun with family celebrations.
Happy birthday willedav. Sounds like you had an interesting morning.
Kat that was a fantastic outfield and I still get sick to my stomach over the players Stoneham shipped off for little or no return.
Evan so I would still take a Stoneham over the Johnsons and the rest of the owners any day of the week.
Damm WordPress! Meant to mentioned that Mays was already past his prime at that point, but hey we got P Charle Williams lol 😂
Yeah the outfield has been such a cluster fuck for years in the drafts. But we did have supposed hot shot CF Gary Brown getting hair massages from Hunter Pence on the bench
Happy Birthday Willie! Hope you’re having a good one!
Happy b-day Willie! You share a birthday with my oldest sister.
James, we all get that the draft is a crapshoot.
But we have been drafting crap for a monumentally long time.
Like I said, Sabes had a scalding hot stretch from 2006-2009. 2002 was good as well with Cain and Freddie Electric. Those drafts built 3 in 5.
Before that? Well, 1970 was a solid draft. 1968 saw Matthews, Foster, AND Maddox drafted.
After that? Well, pretty slim. There were couple outliers in 1983 with Robbie, Aldrete, Burkett; and 85 with Clark, Brantley, T Wilson, but all in all a fairly miserable record.
And as has been harped on, these players that DO come up are clueless as to the fundamentals of the game. This has been a systemic problem forever.
I didn’t expect Buster to right the wrongs in one season, but I really thought I’d see improvement from last year to this one. We are not better.
7 decent drafts since 1968 (66 drafts) is nothing to write home about.
Chuck, if everyone “gets” that it’s a crapshoot, how do we immediately get to Denmark has been rotting forever? It’s way more of a crapshoot after the first round, which is what my post was specifically addressing. I’m not going to do the work, but I wouldn’t be surprised to see that SF’s draft record over the last several decades isn’t an outlier.
Because they’ve missed on about 61 of the last 66 drafts. I can’t believe any other team has been THAT inept. That’s a 0.92 success rate.
Just look at the list of players drafted by the A’s that they traded away the last 25 seasons. They would fill both sides of an all star game. We have 4 years of great drafts and little else since 1968.
If they were TRYING to fail, they couldn’t do any worse.
even the spear carriers know.
Ok, this is hardly scientific, but using >= 15.0 career WAR compiled since 1968 as a benchmark for a successful career, the Giants drafted 41 of the 1155 total who meet that criterion. Not unexpectedly, the yield’s below average, especially when you factor in that there haven’t been that many stars (there also haven’t been 30 teams for that entire stretch, hence no easy 30X41). But as a straight percentage of successful MLB players, it doesn’t look much out of the ordinary to me.
Then why do we suck??? ‘Below average’ for 58 years is par for the course? Especially when you ‘factor in the lack of stars’? I guess that might have something to do with the sucking.
Again, I question the notion of the brass keeping the minor league scouts and coaches as the problems with this team are all over the farm, the drafting, as well as the majors.
I just don’t get how any of their continued long-term failure can simply be attributed to what, James?
I guess you’d call it the the law of below average?
a birthday bash from one of my favorite social media accts
Thanks to everyone for kindness of birthday wishes. as long as you’re on this side of dirt, right?
xoot, very cool love Art Farmer (twin brother Addison is bassist) especially on flugelhorn, neat sound.
Heard from my sister near LA and it’s even hotter there than here (90’s today). Maybe plan something for weekend after it cools off. We were talking about restaurants we enjoyed that mostly no longer exist. I think there’s only 1 Harry’s in Redwood City and one in San Leandro.
not a bad ab not a really good one on that “triple” but great hustle from matos. Now a bunch more luck. WTF not. Verlander deserves some runs.
That article (didn’t see the vid of Adames), the top comment is about the unending line up changes MoTel perpetuates.
Yeah, the draft has been bad, but that doesn’t address the problems this season with baserunning, mental errors, and the like. I was surprised about the keeping of the underlings/scouts in the minors. That’ll likely change this offseason.
Wow! Just wow! Schmitt and Matos unfreakingbelievable.
Winder, in 1968 the Giants drafted Maddox, Matthews, AND Foster. Quite the haul.
Never worried about our outfield in those years.
Don’t forget the Giants and Pirates were ahead of the crowd when it came to drafting black and Latino players. Certainly ahead of the American League anyway…
Boston held the line the longest.
Thanks Loo. Lived to be 85 years old and worked for many years in Berkeley coaching baseball etc. I think Scott Ostler did a nice profile of him in SF Chron years back.
Never was much of player but did finally break Boston color line.
Pads outscored Giants 24-10 in the series. Taking 1 of 4 seems miraculous looking back on the last 3 beat downs. Looking at highlights, it was Keystone Kops defense again today. I thought Schmitt would be almost as good at 3rd as Chapman. Wrong. All these throwing errors — he must be thinking he’s still playing at 2b. After 5+ years in the giants system, Matos and basic defensive skills seem not yet introduced.
God help them heading to Milwaukee…
They can haunt the Pfister…
He should be able to hold the advantage on the pitches 0-1 inch in or out of the zone, once the challenge system is implemented. The frequency of challenges will probably erase it for all the others.
maybe Bailey will have a second sub career as a precise challenger.
Imagine the life of the guy who was assigned to compile this chart, along with the raving psychopath who ordered it?
And what did poor Riley Adams due to deserve this selective public humiliation?
I guess you didn’t attend the Yankees game. George Costanza bobblehead giveaway. I wonder if Mac did. Seinfeld was my favorite show – probably ever. Ironically, I only began watching it in reruns, after its initial run was over.
https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/45592911/new-york-yankees-seinfeld-night-2025-george-costanza-bobblehead
Blade, no bobblehead for me.
I heard the line was insane. They’re only given to the first 18,000 “guests” which is what they call their fans…
At the Masters, they’re called patrons.
Hey, watch it, not all psychopaths are “raving.”
https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/leaderboard/catcher-framing
getting in just under the wire ..
HAPPY BIRTHDAY willedav !!!!!