Predictable Comments from Sabean
Without quoting him exactly, he basically said “We’re evaluating everything, we aren’t trading any of our blue chips (see: Bumgarner) and we’ve got the talent to win with who we have”….Same stuff we always here from him.
I agree with him on one thing there: The arms we have in the BP are better than the “Walker/Trashner” days. I just don’t think we can afford to lose games finding out who the most passable set up guy is going to be. It’s quite possible that NONE of them, at this point in their careers, are ready for the job and Bochy is just going to have to go by *feel* for who he sends out to do the 8th inning job. Of course, Bochy is loath to that type of approach. Somebody mentioned “Thornton”, that’s not a bad choice. JJ Putz seems to have put his steroid and injury problems behind him. He could work. Whatever, the 8th inning guy is who we go get first and foremost. If I’m Sabean I stop worrying about a middle of the order bat. He’s already found that in Pat Burrell.
A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball 
WhiteSox disenchanted with Quentin (a CA kid with power), and have a glut of BP arms. Seems Sabean would be primed to have a conversation that would both add a bat AND an arm at the same time. The lineup is solid, but we can’t honestly think it is WS-worthy at present can we? Bowker and Nate should have trade value, and if it takes parting with a SP not named Tim, Matt, Jonathan or Madison, then make it happen!
Gringo, Nate is not going to bring in a Carlos Quentin type, and Bowker even less. The SP you don’t mention is Zito, who is pitching pretty damn well this year, and is untradeable with the contract, so I don’t follow you there either.
Picking up one more arm can’t hurt, but trying to determine who that would be is beyond me, let alone what it would cost. I was the one who mentioned how wild Dotel is, and I’ll stick by it–what I saw of him when we were there was the shits. He got one lucky save, blew another, and had the bases loaded all the time. Not an improvement, imo. Twin’s POTD accurately points out this is a major weakness of quite a number of teams, including a couple contenders in our diivsion.
I think the LU is fine. My question is what you do with Posey…do you start giving him other SPs to C besides Zito and sit Molina more often? He’s about 3 for his last 30 and rolling over breaking balls to the left side…Is SF good enough offensively to survive even if Posey hits .260, and if Benjie’s numbers don’t improve much? Or is everything fine as it is, with Posey at 1B, Rowand in and out of the OF, Prez C for Sanchez, Nate coming off the bench for Burrell, and the IF “rotation”?
I got to see Putz pitch a lot here in his hey day, and he was dominant for a couple of years there. I don’t recall him being mentioned as part of the steroid scandal, but if his health is good, he may be worth taking a chance on and he could come relatively cheaply at this point.
When he is on he has frontline closer type stuff and could be an excellent setup man. Of course, his health is a big if.
I would like to see Buster start getting some starts behind the plate myself. He’s scuffling right now, but I’m curious to see how he looks with the tools of ignorance on.
Well with his history, I have complete faith in Bochy’s “feel” for handling the bullpen.
Sure they will kick the tires on some alternatives, but they won’t be alone as Willie/TF stated. Supply and demand will then play a role in what realistically you can expect. Getting a guy with a proven track record who is pitching well will be out of their price range. Rolling the dice on a guy who is struggling and has a history of being up and down doesn’t sound like much of an upgrade over what they have.
I’m not Sabean, but I am not really that worried about who our 8th inning guy is going to be. And I echo your sentiments WillieD (in response to Gringo’s post).
I agree…Twin makes an excellent point with his POTD.
The guys mentioned on the survey are 33, 33, 36, and 31. A couple are in option years. Thornton is a club option for 2011 at 3 mil (.25 mil buyout). Putz is on a 3 mil option year (FA next year). Dotel – fuck him. Qualls – nah. As Willie mentioned, I too have no idea how much a set-up guy would cost, and don’t think the benefit outweighs the cost. I say continue to ride this horse at least until after the break, and then see where things are at that time.
Well, I had predicted 2-3 from the Jays, but that little-known pitcher with the stratospheric ERA bit us in the ass on Saturday. Friday the Giants got had by a guy who had been struggling. That shit happens pretty frequently in baseball. So, it is off to Houston…2-3 there (we swept there earlier) and the Giants come home with a little .500 roadie.
Looks like they’re skipping the 5th spot and Timmy is set-up to start tomorrow.
Contest update: 11 wins, 83 runs, 21 bombs. Projects to: 17 wins, 125 runs, 32 bombs.
Max said “Getting a guy with a proven track record who is pitching well will be out of their price range. Rolling the dice on a guy who is struggling and has a history of being up and down doesn’t sound like much of an upgrade over what they have.” Bingo. That is why I said I don’t think the benefit outweighs the cost.
Nice article on the BleacherReport about Panda and his Sophmore slump.
It’s too early to speculate trades. Would I like to see a big bat in the lineup or a realiable setup man? Sure, who wouldn’t? But at what cost and for how much of an upgrade? If Sabean isn’t willing to trade blue chips, which I don’t think he should, then I don’t see us picking up anything better than what we already have. If the best lineup is put on the field everyday, I think we have the pieces to win the west and our pitching should get us deep into the playoffs.
I think the Giants have the players needed to go deep into the playoffs with who they have. Every year the pretenders drop out of the race after the Allstar break. We will see who they are shortly
No major trade should happen. Sabean should just stay the course. Sure if something falls into his lap take it but not at the expense of blue chip players. This club is now playing mostly guys over thirty again. If they can’t do it, then build for next year with younger guys.
I agree 3bagger. That’s why I said “continue to ride this horse at least until after the break, and then see where things are at that time.”
First day of summer and “our boys of summer” have the day off. That just plain out sucks!
I didn’t mean ‘Zito’ per se, I meant any SP of value in the system bigs or minors. Also, I didn’t mean Bowker or Nate would bring in Quentin, I meant as part of a package. However, Bowker or Nate alone might fetch a BP arm.
Being in the bottom 20% of teams in runs scored does not mean we have a solid lineup. It’s looked great at times and dreadful at times, both early in the season and recently. Bottom line, improvement is a good thing, standing pat is not prudent if they are serious.
I don’t think we’ll see the Giants making any major moves anytime soon. They are right in the thick of things, and they still haven’t really hit their stride. I think Sabean will bide his time (as he should, IMO) and see how things develop after the break.
Over simplification from PGF, as usual, with the inference that “both early in the season and recently” is just same-old, same-old. Since Burrell/Posey/Sanchez, it’s been a night and day difference. They have, in fact, been better than middle of the pack over the last 4 weeks ( 12th in runs in MLB, 6th in OBP, 9th in BA, 3rd in OPS). That’s in MLB. It HAS been solid, and not inflated as it was the first week or so at nearly 7 RPG. They’ve settled into a 4.6 RPG clip over that time. And with Edgar back, it would look to have even more improvement. An even more relevant standing would be NL only: 3rd in runs, 1st in OPS, 2nd in OBP, 1st in home runs. They are now, IN FACT, one of the best hitting teams in the league. Which is why I’ve said they should now cruise to the division…
In other words: they seem to have gotten over the Rowand beaning 😉
Sorry if this has already been noted as I’ve been away all weekend but has anyone noticed Huff now has the 8th best BA in the NL
TF, thanks for the stats. it proves that some people don’t watch the games. There are always going to be disappointing series. I think I heard that yesterdays game was the first win for the Giants in an AL stadium this year. Eveytime the Giants lose a series someone posts that the team is “MISSING” a piece, tipically a Bat.
Three games in Houston should be exactly what the Giants need after a lack-luster series in Toronto.
Giants may be in the basement in runs scored~ 12th in a 16 team league However, in the other two major metrics, OBP and SP, they happen to be 6th. Part of this discrepancy is due to frequent poor situational hitting. The other major element is the grouping of stats from earlier in the season when 3 of the 8 current starting position players were not even present. So when one looks at where the team is right now in terms of their LU, it is more likely than not that their current 12th place ranking in runs scored will likely jump at least two or three notches over the next month or so and should finish somewhere between 6th and 8th in the league.
With his performance yesterday, isn’t it obvious that our highly paid and extended setup man Jeremy Affeldt has an ‘injury’ and clearly needs to go on the 15-day DL soonest?
Steve Edlefsen should get the call from Fresno for a taste of The Show. Prior to yesterday’s winning performance Denny Bautista was the reliever on the ledge. He redeemed himself about halfway back with the Toronto victory after Drrrrty got all messy with his command and control. So my call, till about a month from now is for a 15-day ‘injury’ for Affeldt and to see whether or not Edlefsen will have some role to play in Bochy’s near daily mix n match 7th and 8th inning juggling demonstrations.
Meanwhile, at the plate, it is clear and evident that Huff the Magic Dragon, Bochy’s best offseason pickup deal by far, is playing at an All-Star level and should get the call by Charlie Manuel to be among his reserves. The Huffmeister may be no better than 8th in BA, but climbs to 5th in OPS and a very strong 5th in OBP. With those numbers he should be in the starting NL lineup, but we know that will not happen. Aubrey Who? Also worthy of consideration for the All-Star reserves are Andres Torres who is 9th in OBP and Juan Uribe who is making a steady climb towards the higher reaches in RBIs.
Next 4 games, at Houston for 3 and including the first Boston game, will see the Giants face 4 pitchers with losing records. A game and a half out, they have gained one game over the past 10 vs the Pads and now lead the flailing LaBumbos by a half game. Games two and three against Boston will likely be against tougher pitching than Tim Wakefield. Game two will feature the Giants’ #5 starter. Will MadBum get the call vs the Beantown Blasters? There might be a sellout crowd in any event in China Basin, but with a Bumgarner start, that crowd would all be sitting at the edge of their seats.
How many Giants will be represented at the AS game? Worthy of consideration:
Torres
Uribe
Huff
Sanchez ( a little light on AB)
Lincecum
Cain
Zito
Wilson
I think we’ll get Wilson, one SP, and one position player.. best guess: Wilson, Lincecum, Huff. But it’s close with all of them. Tough call.
This is on Fox Sports, and notice the last part
The Giants have interest in Royals outfielder David DeJesus, two major league sources said, but it doesn’t appear that the clubs are engaged in serious talks.
Sabean can go back to his trading partners Pittsburgh.But not for Dotel he sucks balls.They should go after Evan Meek as a setup guy for Wilson.
Stix – good post. RE: the next four SPs the Gigantes will face (having losing records), well, you can’t get too caught up in that stuff. The first two Jays starters the Giants faced also had losing records, and one of them was sporting a 27.00 ERA. Twin mentioned this last week when I brought up the 27.00 ERA. Interesting how a guy like that can come out and pitch one game and look like Cy Young. Boston is on a roll (6 in a row) as they steam into Coors Field. I expect all three against the Beantown 9 will be sell-outs.
I agree with you tWIN, that all those guys deserve consideration but I would bet that Wilson is the only guy chosen. Manual is an idiot, he’ll probably add 3/4 of his pitching staff to the team. And we don’t have any position player who’s going to get voted in. Cain will probably make it if his win total increases, otherwise he’s fucked I think. And timmy just hasn’t been an all star this year. He’s been good, but not an all star……
To be clear: I am not among those who were high on either Freddy or Huff, less so Sanchez. Huff rates now as perhaps the best free agent acquisition by any club. And at bang for buck, he’d have to be right at the top.
As to relievers, there is just not an emergency on that. Bochy is the master at working a pen, let’s see over the next few weeks and review it at the trade deadline. Giants have some sorting out of their own to do with Nate, Molina, Rowand,Velez, Bowker, maybe Travis. Could have quite a few pieces for a significant trade..
Flavor: we’ll have 3 this year, minimum. I’ll bet the tie I got for Father’s Day on it..
I like DeJesus, but I don’t think he improves our lineup that dramatically.
I don’t see the White Sox trading Quentin until the off-season either…
If it were right now I’d go with just Wilson.
Wilson’s a lock for the team.Huff should get a reserve role with the numbers he has put up.And Tim gets the nod on 2 Cy Youngs and game appeal by fans.Like to see Cain as well,his stats deserve to make it.But Manuel will probably fuck him over like he did with Pablo last year.
Another off season pickup as good as Huff has been,is Troy Glaus .280 14 HR’s 55 RBI’s Where would the Braves be without his production?.Both should make the ALL Star team as reserves.
I think the starting 3 pitchers have all been outstanding. But there are a lot of pitchers that have been outstanding through out MLB this year, I only see Huff as having a chance to go. And that is because of his versetility.
Twin: No doubt the Giants now have sufficient serviceable spare parts to make a move, possibly even a fairly big one. Take even John Bowker. It’s quite possible the guy could thrive in a bandbox. Molina might appeal to an AL club which is in the hunt, but a bit short and backup catcher and DL. Many teams with erratic arms in the infield and an easy pooch to the rightfield wall would consider a long look at Ishi. Nate could possibly fit some team with plenty of wood but needful of a plus arm in a big rightfield. Maybe? someone would take Velez as a throw-in. Rowand could only go in a salary-swap or salary-eating situation. At this point i don’t see where any team out there would consider him as more than a 4th or 5th OF.
For a big trade, some contributions from the ag-network would have to come into play. Rohlinger, Downs from Fresno and maybe SP David Mixon from Richmond and possibly even Henry Sosa from Fresno might draw some interest in a proposed blockbuster. Only positions even partly open for an upgrade would be 1B and LF. One stable, steady reliever for the setup role is still the primary objective. Giants could afford to be reasonably generous for such a pitcher: Say Molina and choice of Schierholtz or Bowker.
Kevin, there is exactly zero chance that none of their pitchers go. Again, based on right now, the Giants will have a SP, a RP, and a position player. I’d bet the future of our fine young people on that… 😉
Stix, Perhaps the Giants “could” be reasonably generous in a trade, but I don’t think the need is there. I believe they can take the division with their current line-up, and in that first round playoff series…the Giant’s starting rotation looks pretty damned good.
Uribe is 1st in the NL in RBIs for all SSs, and tied for HRs. He is 3rd in SLG when considering starters with at least 200 AB. Dude deserves to be a starter…but we know that won’t happen. He certainly is worthy of a reserve roll, and I sure as hell hope he gets it.
Huff deserves a spot, too. He is 3rd in SLG and Avg, 4th in OBP, 8th in HR, and 10th in RBI.
I certainly think Wilson gets in. Would love to see both Cain and Tim, but doubt that happens. I think Kat might be right on Timmy getting the nod on his 2 Cy awards, and his appeal with the fans.
It would be a shame if Cain doesn’t get into the all-star game. He deserves it and couldn’t pitch last year because of injury.
Based on “most deserving” it would actually be Torres, he is among the MLB leaders in WAR at 2.9 ( Wins above replacement) and his value is an astounding 11.3 million. Huff is worth 10 million, BTW, he is 2nd in replacement value at 2.5 Uribe is 3rd at 7.8 million and a plus 1.9 WAR. Panda is 4th at 4.8 million and 1.2 WAR.
BTW, were he on a better team, Alex Rios would be squarely in the AL MVP chase…
3bagger, I agree, I would love to see Cain go and play!! TF, I sure hope so, it would be great to see a few Giants represent!!
Damn. I knew we should have traded Lincecum for Rios. (insert lame sarcastic smiley face)
Top 20 in WAR this year, as you can see this not some bogus ranking, so don’t go there. Huff is 26th, BTW, and Uribe 45th ( DeJesus is 28th). This is some pretty good company:
Cano
Morneau
Crawford
Rios
Adrian G.
Longoria
Youklis
Josh Hamilton
Marlin Byrd
Beltre
Holliday
Utley
Zobrist
**Torres**
Zimmerman
Votto
Ordonez
Pedroia
Miggy Cabrera
Suzuki
i just popped a new poll up there– curious to see what you all think. Remember, there’s a big difference between who SHOULD make it and who WILL make it. Putting the decision in the hands of that country bumpkin Manuel does not work in our favor…..
I see you voted “1”. If nothing else, Manuel will over compensate for last year. They’ll have 3 minimum. Could be as many as 5.
Cain and Wilson. Uncle Charlie is a country bumpkin boob. We get slighted once again.
We’ll get two and like it.
Charlie doesn’t pick all the spots. I think the fans get the starting 8, then the players pick 8 position players and 8 pitchers. THEN Charlie picks 8, and finally the fans get the 33rd player.
The AS game is a farce now, with idiot fan ballot stuffing, and it deciding who gets home field in the WS. Better no Giant makes the team, the four days’ rest would be far more beneficial to the squad…
Well, sorry but your wish won’t come true, Snarkkles. I’m willing to bet on this. Who is up to it?
Of course it won’t happen. Each team gets at least one. I say Bengie, then he can stay in Anaheim… 🙂
No Giants selected? You’re being hypothetical, right snarkk? By the time the managers choose the last 9 players (new number for 2010) at least *every* team has to be represented. But you knew that, right?
ha ha ha. Thanks for making my post moot, snarkk. I type too slow. But the roster *was* increased in 2010 so that’s why managers choose 9.
Anyone saying there will be just one or two is practicing the reverse discrimination so prevalent here. Last year they were still an “upstart” team at this time of year. This year they are an established and accepted contender, now in the top 5 to in the NL picked to go to the WS (7-1). My bet is that they have 3 or more at the AS game. We can discuss the stakes if there are takers..
Why would any of us want to take the doomer side of that bet? We all want as many Giants to be represented, but just because I or others think there will only be two doesn’t necessitate a bet just to be right. It would be like me entering my nag in a race yet betting on the horse who I thought was going to win. Conflict of interest.
Here’s how the final roster is tallied: 8 starters voted in by fans. 16 players votes, 8 pitchers (5 SP, 3 RP) and 1 back-up at each position. 9 picks by Uncle Charlie who must consult with the other NL managers and League Office. 1 final fan internet selection from a group of five.
“Why would any of us want to take the doomer side of that bet?” If you thought you’d win, you’d bet.
No, it’s just like I’ve NEVER bet against the Giants even though I thought “easy money” would be had by taking the opposition. I believe you brought it up the other day, something about morals. Well, I have them in this particular instance.
Really, who did you think you were kidding with that nonsense? This is hardly betting against your team. You’re betting on how many guys will be in a basically meaningless game that has no impact on pennant races. Again, I see this repeatedly here: a guy discounted only because he’s a Giant. Huff, Uribe, Torres, and even Sanchez have very legit shots. Four pitchers do, as well. That’s not the biased take, the biased take wiuld be that those guys don’t have a shot. 3 of those 8 is actually a conservative take on it. 50 bucks Paypal.
We could set up a contest. Obviously we’d need sine good tie breakers. I’ll kick that idea around
And twin it gas nothing to do with reverse descrimination. Simply, the NL all star gm manager is a dumbass who Certainly has an east coast bias. I doubt he even knows who torres is. Huff and uribe deserve to go, so do cain and Wilson. I think torres and Timmy deserve consideration, too. but i’ve got no faith whatsoever in Charlie Manuel picking any of our guys
Except Wilson and that’s because he’ll have to
He only picks 8 of the 33.
And fuck trading for dejesus that would be an absurd “buy high” by sabes. This guy is not a legit .325 hitter and he has no power. We have plenty of outfielders, play the burrell thing out
I hope none of our pitchers get picked for the AS game. Seems like it has always been a jinx for our guys.
I’m still liking this kid Jensen Lewis. I think the Indians would be good trade partners for some of our young position players.
Amazing to me that we are more apt to trade position player than pitchers this year.
I didn’t know aboutthe changes made to the voting for this years all star game. 16 players added by player/manager/coach vote. That could definitely get our guys voted in
I’m not for ANY trades except maybe a middle reliever. They’ve made a LEGIT RPG boost of half a run per game with Torres/Sanchez at the top and the Burrell/Posey additions. There’s nobody out there who would help enough AND justify what we’d give up for him. Totally agree to let it ride.
I’d write the same post twin except I’d sub in “set up guy” for middle reliever. Why can’t Iron Head Joe be our middle guy? Or Wellemeyer? wht the fuck has happened to Wellemeyer????
How ’bout a guy like Sean Marshall, from the Cubs. Seems to be having an “’09 Affeldt type” yr. Get’em while he’s hot.
http://tinyurl.com/29rl9sk
Come up with an All-Star contest and I’ll put up another PC as the prize.
BF is right. Affeldt/Mota/Romo/Runzler have variously stunk up the 8th all year, try them them in mid-relief with Wellemeyer and Martinez until one gets hot, stick with him. Get Bum up here, stat. Then, find an 8th inning solid replacement, and leave the rest of the team alone — Sabes can’t be trusted to trade for another bat, which is really what is needed to get this squad to the NLCS. The team as constituted with an 8th inning replacement or somebody steppin it up into the set up role after the Break is good enough to make the playoffs, but not going past the Division Series…
Ridicuolus assertion about the playoffs, Snarkkle. Stick to Baer fluff.
Snarkk is sort of the sideline gal here. Anything deeper than the swell Friday night colors is best left to serious reporters..
With Torres, Huff, Burrell, Sanchez, and Uribe all Sabean acquisitions, I’d say he’s more than atoned for the Garko gaffe…
Wonder where snarkk wants the other bat to play?
Interesting how the Giants signed Mays here…
tinyurl.com/27no9e5
Agreed, with all those bat pick ups I hereby absolve sabean of the garko fiasco. His reward: I shall never mention that shitty trade again…
Sabean has put his detractors to ruin this year ( including yours truly). He bailed on Garko, passed on Penny. Refused to listen to the nonsense about Eric the Clown and Unca Miltie… he has a LU that has some of the best FA signings at any price in Huff, Torres, Burrell, and Uribe. Home grown talent in Posey and Panda. Add Sanchez and the .320+ Renteria. It’s Exec of the year stuff.
Oracle, the Michele Tafoya of the Flap, spittin in a lather at Erin Andrews…
Look, until uribe came along (a signing I mocked when it happened) I had no faith that sabean had any freaking clue how to identify a good bat. I still don’t know how uribe is doing this. Torres either. Huff and burrell make sense but he still gets credit for signing them. If you can sign en you can trade for them.
If Sabes WERE to get another bat, it’d be 1b or OF, natch. Move Posey where he belongs into C, Molina traded. Huff stays in OF or goes to 1B, depending on the acquisition. I’ll even leave Ishi on the end of the pine as PH, just for Oracle…