1973? And leave the park the way it is……
After that pathetic, team-wide, lay down on Sun these last 2 games have been awesome. I was stunned to read that this is the first back-to-back double digit runs scored at home since 1973. That’s crazy. Of course it’s hard to get to 10 runs in a baseball game but is it 37 years hard to get their consecutively? The Yankees probably do that at least a couple of times a year…..
Did anyone catch Barbieri crying about moving the fences in yesterday? His argument is that good hitters don’t want to come here because of the dimensions. I don’t think for a second that the Giants would consider altering this perfect park so I’m not worried about Barbieri’s rant. There isn’t a reason in the world to move the fences in. In fact, I would argue that a triple into the alleyway is MORE exciting than a homerun– will the guy get to third? How many runs score? And then the play at the plate! And so what if Huff has lost a few bombs at AT&T. His home OPS this year is .906. Last year his home OPS was .784. I think he can live with the dimensions. And I was at that inside-the-park job he had earlier this year, it was one of the most exciting plays of the year…….
I’ve argued this point before. Sabean drafts backwards. He focuses on pitchers because that’s his thing and his results certainly can’t be questioned. But he would have no problem signing FA pitchers to pitcher here. Pitchers love ATT. He gets rebuffed by the big boppers, but if he DRAFTED hitters they would have to play here. And most hitters find out that ATT is NOT death to a bat. OPS’s and batting averages usually go up at ATT because of the big outfield, the fielders simply can’t cover the ground they can at other smaller parks…..
Ted Sillanpaa still sucks……
A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball 
Giants beat the Astros in May 2006 back to back 14-3 and 10-1. At home.
Hot time, summer in the City this year. I wonder if Buster’s HR last night would’ve made it through the fog. The other Giant HRs sure looked like they were hit hard enough to leave any park in any weather.
This club has had cold streaks. This offense has had glacial seizures. But they keep blasting free. Gotta get me some tickets for the next homestand.
Sorry. They won those two games at Houston.
Frickin’ “Razor” didn’t know shit when I lived in the SF bay area and he still doesn’t. Ralph probably would also be in favor of:
1. Adding George Bush to Mount Rushmore.
2. Remove and replace the Statue of Liberty torch with a Stop sign.
3. Paint the Golden Gate bridge a “politically correct” mauve or fuchsia.
Are you implying RB is a gay right-winger?
Great win last night but Amy G. sure mailed it in…..
Went to bed after the fourth up 7-2. Got up and had to watch the rest of the game to see what happened, well that and to see Ted’s MILF (agree Ted).
Sorry Dirty couldn’t get number 10 but very glad for the team win (as I’m sure Dirty was as well). The last two games have been awesome, everyone is contributing, I think the bat boy even got a hit last night.
BF – great point in your last paragraph, and Posey certainly helps that argument. Perception becomes the reality, as always, and the park perception itself really got cemented during the homerun derby. Hopefully guys like Huff and Uribe can help change the free agent mindset because I’m not sure it’s really in Sabean’s comfort zone to change his philosophy after all these years.
Yeah, but WHY did those lefthanded hitters have so much trouble that night in the Derby? The homerun derby is BATTING PRACTICE basically. On any given night at AT&T, you can see all kinds of lefthanded hitters hitting homeruns in BP. I think a bunch of the Derby guys were way over-swinging, instead of just taking their regular swings, I guess. And the righthanded hitters were crushing the ball. Vlad Guerroro hit a ball out of the entire ballpark to leftfield that night. Or maybe the winds were just freakishly harder coming in from rightfield that night.
I was there, and the weather was great. Shortsleeves for me and my 10 year old in the view level. I think right field plays a little mind game with lefties. They either see that wall in close and say I’m going to launch it in the water, or they know the stories and think I have to hit the shit out of it for an HR. Either way, they swing too hard. I think that’s what happened in the derby. Left field is obviously a different story and the ball was flying out. After leaving that night I though about how good our Giants would have been with Vlad and Bonds hitting there together. It was also that night that I decided I wanted Holiday the next time he was a free agent. He didn’t win the derby, but he owned the first round and had the best swing by far.
Yeah BF, I have always thought the same thing about Sabean’s draft approach. I’m sure he knows how players feel about the park more than we do. But if he’s had a difficult time attracting hitters with power to AT&T, I would expect that he would focus on them in the draft. Use the park’s reputation as a pitcher’s paradise to his advantage in free agency negotiations.
That said, it is possible that the perception that the park is death to hitters is something that’s overblown by the media and doesn’t really matter much to players or agents. Still, if I were the GM (and all of you should be glad I’m not), I would skew towards drafting power and getting pitching through free agency.
Enjoyed the POTD graphic, Flav. As the Norskies would say “kjut!” Amazing what a couple nights of bats can do to the statistical belfry. Going into the season, considering the starting pitching, most of us hoped that Giants hitters would up their performance to maybe middle of the pack status. Well, here’s the latest:
Batting Average: .262, tied for 4th; Runs scored: seventh with 562; Hits: 3rd with 1,134; HRs eighth with 120; doubles, 3rd at 234; three-baggers, 9th with 23; RBIs 8th at 532; On Base percentage tied for 7th at a .327 and Slugging Percentage, 8th at a .410.
Team offense is even better than the stats suggest, if you consider the division factor. Three of the hardest parks to hit in, so they say, are in the NL West. Also its the division with proportionally the better pitching. Were SF in the Central division regularly facing the staffs of Milwaukee, Chicago, Pittsburgh, Houston and Cincinnati its not unlikely this team would be in the top 3 or 4 teams in virtually every category. Hits and doubles totals would tend to indicate that.
Last night i said it was official that the Kung Fu Panda is back. In post-game comments Andres Torres said the same thing. Also noted that it appears that Franchez is over his owwies and is hitting like a batting champ once again. Steady performers like Torres, Huff and Posey are not likely to fall off very much. Now if Timmy can get his act back together…..
I don’t know about Freddy’s hr, but the rest of them had that unmistakable sound.
Great night to be at the park. Got to be a comfortable 80 degrees around the 3rd inning, full moon hanging above the scoreboard. And the crowd was into it, rising to their feet it seemed on every crack of the bat. You couldn’t have asked for a better night to attend a game in SF. It was a night were no lead felt safe.
At 13-5, Votto up and bases full, we were thinking it could end up 15-13. But Casilla came up with a huge pitch (curve change?) on 3-2, that may be the biggest he’s thrown this yr.
Hell, I’m thinking of going back for the final today.
Also, DAMN! If Pablo stays hot and Franchez continues to get on base, this team only needs Lincecum to pitch like a #4 and they’re talking playoffs.
I run way too hot and cold with this team.
Just finished my morning JUMBLE. Today’s assignment was Ralph “The Razor” Barbieri. Hidden within was; “irreparable,” “irritable,” “reprobate” and “terrorize.” No surprise there. So chew on that you bombastic blowhard as you suck down your next slice of mushroom with onions (you just know he’s not man enough to eat meat) gratis of Amici’s East Coast Pizzeria for whom you’ve had your lips super glued to their 650 degree brick oven for the past twenty years you whiny USF Don-key educated crybaby sorry excuse for a sports radio talk show host.
At 13-5, Votto up and bases full, we were thinking it could end up 15-13′
oops, screwed up that line, but you get my drift.
good points in your second pgh, Stix. In the NL Central you have a division filled with warm weather hitters parks and not a lot of pitching. Same with AL East. I think this skews some stats, and I always wonder how some of the guys I like (or others brought up as potential assets to Giants offense) would do here, and how much they would like playing home games at ATT. As we all know, there are very few nights where the weather is that warm in SF, without fog.
Did Sabes draft Fred Lewis? I haven’t looked at his numbers/splits in a long time, but it seems he is just fine at leadoff for the Jays. The talk about Ross talent level (runs well, has some pop, played hurt) makes me wonder…are any of the guys SF kept/acquired (other than Burrell) gonna put up any better numbers than Fred?
I think he was drafted in 02 by the Giants . . .
I’m the one that first called Sabean’s draft policy bassackwards, for the reasons stated, and have been reposting it regularly. Only in the recent year has it changed. It’s so damn obvious. Draft position players and more position players, with the pitchers in the minority. Buy pitching, they’ll want to come. Draft hitting, once here, many will probably want to stay even when free to move. You don’t want to be in the continual position of having to overpay for drek like Rohand…
First? Dream on.
First on this blog. I’ve been here longer than you. If you’ve said it somewhere else, good on you. It’s been the fundamental flaw in Sabean’s approach to personnel since the park opened…
What a ride last night. The hits just kept on coming. I literally can’t remember the Giants ever scoring more than they did last night. Makes me want to change my contest prediction for runs scored. If they average a third of last night’s production, they’ll blow my number out of the water. That would be fine with me though, as it would also mean October baseball! Can’t wait to see what they do behind Bum today.
An annoying habit of Ralph has been his growing effort to inject himself into stories. I don’t care about his personal relationship with Brian or whether he’s “on record” for shit. Tom has done something; Ralph has done nothing.
I’ve been going ’round in circles with Sabean worshippers on his draft model for years, so I see no heresy in BF raising the issue. This park can attract big names AND mask mediocrities, esp. in post-steriod era. Ask the Pads and Jon Garland about his Petco revival. Likewise, look at the crappy bats inflating numbers in Arizona’s bandbox – AZ won with good pitchers in a hitters’ park. Rocks never did shit until they focused on sinkerballers and abandoned the Vinnie Cashstealer-Dante Blubbette paradigm.
Where Flavor takes a leap: “He focuses on pitchers because that’s his thing and his results certainly can’t be questioned.” First rd. or sandwich: Matt White, Fontenot, Grilli, Urban, Chris Jones, Bump, Bonser, Ainsworth, Aardsma, Whitaker, Jerome Williams, Lowry, Cain, Hennessey, Lincecum, Bum, Alderson, Wheeler. Some gems, no doubt, and improvement over his 15 yr. tenure. Lots of scrubs, arguably tossing darts at a board … to the criminal neglect of position players. Hardly the Braves.
And just for laughs, 1st rd or sandwich position players: Dan McKinley, Arturo McDowell, Torcato, Linden, Burriss, Charlie Culberson, Jackson Williams, Nick Noonan, Wendell Fairley, Conar Gillaspie, Posey, Gary Brown. Dunce.
Jed, if you’re honest – you can do the same “exercise” with the rest of the GMs in MLB. I would venture to guess they would all have about the same record as Sabean, with one or two exceptions. Even with those exceptions, we’re talking about 2-3 “diamonds” they find in a field of coal. Think about it. Baseball isn’t Football (except with regard to quarterbacks) and certainly isn’t basketball, where you’re almost certain to get the player you expected in the draft. Regardless, the odds favor these two sports exponentially over baseball. Even when you get a “phenom” out of high school, you’re talking years down the road insofar as player development is concerned.
Finally, you have to consider commitment and investment. For example, take the Pirates – they are considered widely as one of the worst teams in MLB . . . Yet, they have developed quite a few good ball players over the years. The fact that they no longer play with the Pirates speaks to “commitment and investment,” i.e., the Pirates rarely make a commitment or invest in a player long term and end up trading them for more prospects, thus they are always on a “merry-go-round” of rebuild . . . and, ultimately, failure.
Looking back from ST, I think we have seen how different things are from what we thought then. Everyone thought the Seattle GM got his team into immediate contention with his off season moves, and they fell apart from the get go. The Z guy ain’t going to be GM of the year.
SF came north with Bowker and nate, velez up and down, fill ins at 2B, uncetainty about Huff at either 1B or OF. The hitters Sabes drafted haven’t done the job, except for Posey and Sando. Torres has emerged as a fixture, and Burrell has taken ABs and a middle order spot. I still like Ishi. We’ll see as to the AA guys. My point is that no one of the recent draftees or recent OF acquisitions isn’t any better than Fred, the guy we let go for nothing.
Fred in LF instead of Burrell…you must be kidding…
Ditto…
“Other than burrell” is right in the middle of the 9:09 post.
I wouldn’t mind a minor ballpark correction. Leave LF and LeftCenter alone. Move in RF about 2-3 feet and lower the top of the wall about 2 feet, then proportionately bring in the wall towards Triples Alley and Center, so that the biggest part of the yard is then somewhere around 410 to 415, not 421. You’d still have a triples alley, but you’d get more exciting plays up against the wall for catches/non catches, and a few more dingers to RF and Right Center. To me, the acreage out in deep right center is just too damn much. You could graze cattle out there during a game. This park is not old enough to be sacred. Baer would he happy with more seats, too…
Fuck that.
Might as well hang seat over the RF wall. Or put 3 rows of seats on the warning track . . .
No way I’d change the RF wall even the slightest. I was looking at tripples alley last night and thinking of how they could bring the 421 marker in to about 405. It would add more seats, but you’d have to raise all the right center bleachers to accomodate the new ones against the fence. It would be very difficult to make that work. I say leave it as is and draft more hitting/acquire FA pitching.
The parks isn’t old enought to be fucked with either, Snarkk.
He of ‘the warm weather is a disadvantage to the Giants” call . . .
Hey, I was right about the balls flying out. And the Reds have way more dingers than the Giants this year. Who knew the Gmen would muscle up more than the Reds for two games after that disaster on Sunday in St. Louis?. Nobody would have predicted over 25 runs for the Giants in two games…
The point being Snarkk, the Giants have a big home field advantage on ANY given night. Warm or cool.
These have been some sick two days at ATT. I just hope Lincecum hasn’t sweat off a couple pounds. Hydrate, son, hydrate
I agree, leave the park as is. Screw Barbieri.
At&T is a fair ballpark, something people have forgotten about in this day and age of bandbox parks. I hate parks like the Great America park the Reds play in, and the new Yankee Stadium is a joke. Way too many cheapies there. It MLB. You should have to earn a dinger.
Well said.
Fed is better than Nate, Velez, Bowker, and Guillen. He’s also better than Ross right now, but the latter may still salvage his season if he plays enough. It may be time to revive the RF myth . . . .
How the hell are you going to move the RF wall in, snarkk? You move the plate and all the other dimensions are affected as well. I think the RF wall’s height is perfectly balanced by the short distance down the line. It’s the best park in baseball. Leave it alone.
FWIW, the park factors stat on baseball reference shows that ATT favors hitters. That presumably includes a one year figure without Bonds.
If the Giants wanted to “fix” the ballpark, it’s an easy fix. A new fence closing off “triples alley.” The Giants could put something cool in the closed off area. Monuments or whatever. Heck, as some of you know, the Polo Grounds had a World War I monument in deep centerfield.
I tend to go back and forth in my mind on the ballpark dimensions. Predictably, I love the park when it benefits our pitchers; but don’t like the dimensions when it robs one of our guys of a homerun.
But the park, overall, IS a big homefield advantage overall. A lot of the visiting teams have moments when they look lost in this ballpark.
They won’t change anything unless they can add more seats.
The real thing that gives the Giants the home advantage, over park dimensions, is still the weather. It’s damn cold out there at night, mostly. Not fun to hit in that if you just drop in for 3 games a year for those outside division teams. Not as cold and windy as the Stick was, but it’s still the coldest home field in the NL….
Sabean worshippers? Whatever, Jed. If you want to trot out a strawman argument devoid of all nuance and complexity, then go for it.
TF said it best. To the Sabean-haters, all the bad stuff is Sabean’s fault, and all the good stuff is blind luck.
It’s August 25th, and the Giants are tied for a playoff spot. These are good times. Huge game today.
Sheesh, you guys are a conservative bunch. I love the park. Who wouldn’t after the Stick? But, tweaking the dimensions could provide some more excitement to the average game, particularly on the average night where the cold air/wind/fog pushes the balls down. A few more Splash hits wouldn’t be bad. If you don’t want to move the walls and create more seats (it wouldn’t be that hard to do), then yeah, just move home plate out a few feet. See what happens. The shorter fences would probably be offset a bit by larger foul ground. And, tThat can be changed back easily if it turns into Wrigley west, which I doubt. You’re treating this place like a friggin shrine. It’s a ballpark…
You can’t add more seats without totally redesigning and raising the right-center bleachers. Without additional seats the brass won’t do it. And how does eliminating tripples alley create more excitement? Tripples and plays at the plate are the most exciting in baseball. Why lessen that? As was said by someone above, this park actually plays fair, which is something that’s been lost in so many new yards being built for cheap shot HRs. If Sabean drafts good righty position players, we’ll see plenty of balls flying out to left. Jeff Kent was able to do it.
How many triples are there vs. long ball fly outs to center and right center that would be triples or HRs in just about any other park? That area of the park is an oddity, it’s cool and different and all, but it doesn’t reward a well struck ball to about a 1/3 of the park, and that’s an issue for attracting FA hitters. If the long term strategy is still focused on drafting pitchers, that’s a real issue. If/when Sabes leaves and the draft strategy turns regularly more towards hitters, then the problem lessens…
Snarkk, why do we want to help opposing hitters?
Jed, you are such a sack of shit. You think that plopping down a list of Giants first round draft picks proves some point as if it makes any sense to leave out context. Since you love fucking lists so much, here’s a list of the first/sandwich draft picks for other NL West teams since 1996. Look ’em over and let me know which team has had more hits than misses. Damn, you’re such a fuckass.
PADRES POSITION PLAYERS
Matt Halloran, Kevin Nicholson, Sean Burroughs, Vince Faison, Nick Trzesniak, Jake Gautreau, Khalil Greene, Matt Bush, Matt Antonelli, Kyler Burke, Kellen Kulbacki, Drew Cumberland, Mitch Canham, Danny Payne, Allan Dykstra, Jaff Decker, Logan Forsythe, Donavan Tate
PADRES POSITIONS
Gerik Baxter, Omar Ortiz, Casey Burns, Mike Bynum, Mark Phillips, Tim Stauffer, Cesar Carrillo, Cesar Ramos, Nick Schmidt, Cory Luebke, Karsten Whitson
DODGERS POSITION PLAYERS
Damian Rolls, Glenn Davis, Bubba Crosby, Jason Repko, James Loney, Blake DeWitt, Preston Mattingly
DODGERS PITCHERS
Ben Diggins, Greg Miller, Chad Billingsley, Scott Elbert, Justin Orenduff, Luke Hochevar, Clayton Kershaw, Bryan Morris, Chris Withrow, James Adkins, Ethan Martin, Aaron Miller, Zach Lee
ROCKIES POSITION PLAYERS
Jason Fitzgerald, Matt Roney, Jeff Winchester, Jayson Nix, Ian Stewart, Chris Nelson, Troy Tulowitzki, Timothy Wheeler, Kyle Parker
ROCKIES PITCHERS
Jake Westbrook, Mark Mangum, Choo Freeman, Jason Jennings, Matt Harrington, Jeff Francis, Chaz Roe, Greg Reynolds, Casey Weathers, Christian Friedrich, Tyler Matzek, Rex Brothers, Peter Tago
DIAMONDBACKS POSITION PLAYERS
Jack Cust, Corey Myers, Sergio Santos, Connor Jackson, Carlos Quentin, Stephen Drew, Justin Upton, Ed Easley, Robert Borchering, Allen Pollock, Matthew Davidson, Christopher Owings
DIAMONDBACKS PITCHERS
Nick Bierbrodt, Casey Daigle, Jason Bulger, Matthew Tora, Max Scherzer, Brooks Brown, Jarrod Parker, Wes Roemer, Daniel Schlereth, Wade Miley, Michael Belfiore, Barret Loux
As a side note for the rest of you who can actually hold a conversation, considering Jeddie’s list of Sabean picks above (I’m assuming it’s correct), how would you rank the division 1 through 5 for position players and pitchers?
You forgot “dunce” at the end of each list.
You know, I almost added it!
Exactly my point above (11:17am post) . . . Thanks swickman.
Nicely written, blade. You managed to make your point without calling Jed any names. I applaud you for that.
For pitching, I’d go Giants, Dodgers, Rockies, D-Backs, Padres. Though admittedly I haven’t heard of the majority of the other teams’ draftees.
For position players, I’d go D-Backs, Rockies, Dodgers, Giants, Padres.
Interesting, considering the Padres are in first.
Without giving it *too* much thought as that would be painful, I mostly agree except I wouldn’t have Padres last in pitching
I’d agree with that. Even more reason why SD is such a surprise. Fucking friars.
“I’m not here to talk about the past….”
Torres CF, Posey C, Huff 1B, Burrell LF, Guillen RF, Sandoval 3B, Uribe SS, Sanchez 2B, Bumgarner LHP
As I thought. Have to keep Guillen from going Unca_Miltie on us….
Enjoy The Bat, he will not be back. Ross probably will ,and Huff, if somebody like the Nats doesn’t offer him 10 + per year. Interesting now: who gets more this winter: Huff or LaRoche?
Uh-Oh, urgent message from Zuzan Hazam, must reply confidentially. Perhaps it’s the wire from Nigeria I’ver been waiting for…. I’m RICH!
Where’s Burrell gonna go? You like Cody Ross for about $6M?
Hahaha… Jed probably sent it to you….
….I prefer to bitch, moan and whine about the present.
Predicted to be around 80 degrees at ATT this afternoon, not as much as last night, but still pretty hot for SF. Anybody on the over/under in total runs? I don’t think we’ll have a 16-5 whacko game again, so I’ll say 13, the ball should still be flying out pretty well…
I like the lineup better with Ross than Guillen, but I’m sure Bochy has his reasons. If Pablo and Franchez keep hitting the way they’ve been, how long do you guys think it will take before they are moved up the order. I see it going to this:
Torres CF
Franchez – 2B
Posey – C
Huff – 1B
Burrell – LF
Sandoval – 3B
Uribe – SS
Ross – RF
I think Burrell is our cleanup guy because of expereicne and attitude and it is easier hitting a homer to left. He has to stay cleanup. I rather see Huff 5th instead. If Panda is hot, maybe him hitting 3rd finally if Posey keeps hot hitting second. If Franchez has found his stroke hitting 8th, keep him there…
Man a lot to respond to today. First, what a game to watch sick in bed. Probably the most enjoyable game of the year, especially when I have Posey, Torres, Panda and Huff in my money fantasy league. I gained 4 points just on the homers and rbis from these four guys last night:)
1) Barbieri and the ATT – why fuck with beauty? No one who ever suggests moving in right field ever argues how this makes the Giants better. If anything, moving in right will make visiting teams better. In the days of the Stick, every other team hated playing there and they were almost mentally defeated before the game even started. Now teams come in with the sense they cant play in right field or hit there. Big mental advantage for the Giants.
Dont the Giants have either the second best or best record at home since ATT opened? So why fuck with that? Changing the dimensions is going to improve our home win record???? Ludicrous.
2) Pitching and defense wins championships. How many times has a masher team like the Blue Jays or the old Rockies ever won a World Series? How many times has a great pitching staff carried a team to a World Series title? The Cardinals and Marlins come to mind just in the last few years.
3) Draft strategy. Even if you argue that Sabean should have drafted differently, I would rather have the drafts played out as they did with Lincecum (even with his mechanical hangups right now), Cain, Sanchez, Bumgarner and hopefully Wheeler being the foundation of the team for the last couple of years and possibly for the next 5-6 years.
Maybe Sabean actually is not great judging hitting talent as he is with pitching. The year Posey was drafted, all of us who followed that draft all wanted Posey over anyone else. Sabean could not miss. His drafting of other hitters is suspect, but one cannot argue he does know what he is doing drafting pitchers. With the base of pitching talent we have, he can focus the next couple of years on the lineup holes in the minors. Hopefully this year’s pick is the future leadoff type of guy.
4) Fred Lewis is having a decent year, but does not mean he would have had a decent year with us. He plays in a hitters league on a turf field that plays better for his speed and swing. Comparing his stats in Toronto to what they would have been in SF is apples and oranges.
5) Not to begin the off-season trade discussions, but reading about Ross and his close friendship with Uggla, would be interesting to follow through on the potential Uggla-J. Sanchez trade that was probably the center of talks for the two last year and last off-season.
I love Pat the Bat, Huff and company. But we do not have a sure thing cleanup guy next year and Uggla just kills at ATT. Uggla could play second, Franchez 3rd and Panda first (or Uggla at first) and Huff left and Ross right. We dont have to then chase after an Adam Dunn type that will want $15 mill/4 year deal minimun type of players.
6) If there is a question about Sabean’s track record on signing free agent pitchers versus hitters, the field is thin and really Zito and Morris are the only guys he has gone after or at least Magowan forced onto Sabean. But if there is one guy to look at next year if J. Sanchez was moved, it would be Ted Lilly. He has been phenomenal since moving to LA and when he was last a free agent and signed with the Cubs I remember he desperately wanted to become a Giant, but we signed Zito instead. He would be a nice #4 lefty.
Before the G’s got Zits I had posted they should get Lilly *and* Marquis. There’s been a lot of revisionism by the doomers since then but it was actually the Cubs who blew up the market that winter when they signed those two to 10 and 7 million dollar per year contracts before Zits was signed. That’s not to say that Zito was not a huge mistake but it’s a mistake that might never have happened were it not for the insanity that the Cubbies unleashed a few weeks earlier.
Totally agree, my mouth dropped when Lilly go that contract. I thought he could have been had at $7-$8 mill and who knows what would have happened if he signed with us then for that price instead of Zito..
It is liek those idiots running the Brewers that thought Randy Wolf was the man after pitching well for the Basrtardos…idiots!
Marquis was the guy I told my Bastardo friends that they should have gone after in 2009 before his big season in Colordao and they laughed at the suggestion…
This time Snarkkles wisely leaves out who he thinks will win this mini-slugfest..
Anyway, after 27 runs in two days, not many teams this side of those ’27 Yankeees figure to score a bunch so there’s a real good chance that LU bashing, hit deprivation moaning, and all around bitching can begin again in earnest. These last two nights have forced the Jedfuck to go back and dredge up Torcato again…
Predictions, as you should know, are a crapshoot. And meaningless. But, I’ll say Reds win. I’ll even go with the same score 8-5. I said that last night, and the Gmen won, so I’ll go with that again, it all worked out just fine…
Somebody mentioned last night the release of the Marlin’s financial info showed Loria ripped off the city for the new Stadium there — the team’s made upward of 30+ $millions over the recent years despite poor attendance due to revenue sharing etc. and the team scrunching the payroll down to dust. Selig is the partner in crime here. He of the new statue. Most have long suspected that most major league pro franchises are liars when it comes to their finances. Texas Rangers actually have been losing money, and they sold for over 1/2 a $billion. Baseball has got to figure out a way to get these small market teams to be competitive, and force the ones that are hoarding revenue share dollars to spend them on personnel. These revelations certainly don’t help the 49ers and their chance at the new stadium in Santa Clara…
Interesting stat from Schulman in today’s paper. Until Torres did it Monday, no San Franciso Giant had ever walked twice in the first inning
I’d like to see it again today…
Good point about the Giants having the best homefield advantage and bringing in tripples alley would negate that. Isn’t Uggla a free agent this winter?
If the Giants re-sign Cody Ross, Uggla would most likely show interest in San Francisco
Unless he goes feet up, they’ll re-sign Ross. He’s a perfect fit here and would at least equal his 2009 numbers.
Uggla? Greart fit, as I’ve pounded for two years… he’d exceed Kent power numbers. Question is whether Sabes is gun shy about 12 millon buck a year deals. That’s what it would take.
Uggla is once again arb eligible and likely to push $11 mill or more. So if we did do a deal the terms would be limited. We wont have to sign him to a multi-year deal. The ever cheap Marlins may likely want to dump him and we know they covet Jonathan…
Ross is also arb-eligible, but there is every likelihood his dollars would not go up much because his production went down this year. The Giants could even hardball him a little and ask for him to sign a two-year deal maybe at $3.5 mill each year.
Jed, I eagerly await your breakdown of Sabean’s first / sandwich rounders versus the rest of the NL West and how it is that he’s comparatively a dunce.
Don’t push him, Swick. Jediot is working up a rant on Torcato…
BTW, Jackson Williams is likely the successor to Eli. Hasn’t hit at all yet but at least he hasn’t not hit for a decade like Whitey. Much better receiver than Vera’s boy … but they’re all, including Buster, just keeping it warm for Tommy Joseph. That’s when Buster will move outta the crouch. Or if Buster objects, maybe Joseph to 1B in 2013.
El Presidente can be packaged with Jonathan to Miami:)
Hell I will throw in Freddie Sanchez as well…
I’ve come around on Uggla, though I still don’t like his bad D. His power would make up for losing Burrell, which will happen, and maybe losing Huff. Too early to predict they keep Ross, but he’s certainly making a believer outta me the first coupla games here. This team is gonna turn over another 7 or more big league roster spots again in the offseason. Burrell, Rent, Rohand, Dirrty, maybe Huff, Whiteside, Guillen, probably Uribe, Fontenot, Ishi…
If Huff keeps up this momentum for the rest of the season, he’s going to get more than a few MVP votes. Thus a price hike. Man this stuff is complicated. I’m glad *I’m* not Sabean
I want Huff back. The issue won’t be how much, but how long. He’ll want at least 2 years, guaranteed. Giants will balk at that, but somebody will give it, so they’ll need to figure out if his intangibles are worth risking the second year. Normally, I don’t like these older dudes. But, this guy has such good karma, I think he’s good for the team, plus, he has no history of recurring injury. I’d vote for giving him a 2 year, plus option on year 3. If somebody else guarantees 3 years, well, then it’s been nice knowin’ ya…
…and if Torcato’s still available…
So Uggla is only signed through this season, but is still arbitration eligible for next.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/dan_uggla/
GH: Not suggesting that you should stick to the sickbed, but gawrsh all friday, that was a good, commonsensical post. Excellent point about the homefield advantage at China Basin. (I totally despise the ATT designation as corporate clutterfuck).
Also, we are on the same page on Dan Uggla. I’ve been hootin for the Giants to get him for the past couple years. Multi-billionaire Marlins owner Jeffrey Luria is trying to lowball him on a new contract. Being a stubborn Swede, Uggla may just object a bit to the sleezeball slimer and demand a trade. Drrrrty as the centerpiece from this side would be okay by me. Most any minor leaguer but Belt and just possibly Bucardo could fatten up the deal.
ATT is not onlly a great name for the park, it is the best name possible…
OK, I help represent ATT 🙂
Snarkk: Glad you checked out that article on Luria. Greed rules in our declining ‘democracy’ and Luria and his sidekick Selig could be posterboys for that reality. Should the Giants get Uggla and provided Belt is able to join the team, even out in the season like Posey did this year; SF could become the powerhouse of baseball, to say nothing of having a decent pitcher or two.
Stix, the Deadspin revelations are good stuff. More to come, apparently. IMO a lot of this nefarious owner activity devolves from baseball’s anti-trust exemption. No other league has it. The Supremes have affirmed it multiple times, so only Congress can change it. It won’t, because the owners and Congress are country club buddies. After Bud, the next Commish will be another lackey, guaranteed. In their view, Owners made mistakes with picking Giammatti and Vincent, so those mistakes will never be made again. The Commish office has turned from what used to be a semi-independent protector of the game into an arm of the Owners, since they need all the help they can get vs. the strongest union in pro sports…
dead on snarkk..I posted before that I wanted to overturn the antitrust exemption in the late 90s when I worked in Congress, but that idea was going nowhere fast.
Selig is a corrupt corrupt lackey to ownership….
The only reason they signed Uggla for this year was to get out from under MLB on the revenue money issue. Ditto Beane and Sheets, BTW..
As to Dirty going, it depends completely on Lincecum..
The trade rumors site says Ugla wants 5 years at $55M, and Florida is offering 3 at $30M. With his buddy Ross being let go the way he was and coming here, it is less likely Uggla will bow to that offer. Good for us.
So, SF offers 3 at $35M, with option for year 4 at $12M. Rent’s off the big contract, Rohand will be gone with some contract relief there (hopefully). Done…
But since he’s arb eligible for 2011, the Marlins control him. So, unless they can’t agree on an extension AND the Marlins don’t offer arbitration, he could only come via trade.
I agree that Rent is most likely gone but that’s not a 100% certainty. The FA SS market is horrendo beyond belief. I do not completely rule out one year at 3 or so. That’s not necessarily an endorsement so keep your panties unspoiled, boys.
Wouldn’t they resign Uribe before Rent?
I would think yes. Rent’s middle name has been DL since he’s been here, like most GMs warned. No pop, no arm, range like a ball and chain attached. Another year older? No freekin way…
I said I didn’t rule it out and what happens with Uribe impacts it, my dear dunderheads. It’s no given Uribe returns. Depends on what HE is offered here and elswehere. Try your hardest to read these things through.
Rent is gone, period, regardless of what they do with Uribe. Hell, I’d take Omar back over Rent. He’s done at any price. They could stick Burriss there and be better off. SS might be a target position for a Dirrty trade…
I think Uribe/Fontenot would work on a one-more year basis…I thought maybe a two year deal for Uribe and Huff at $6 mill per would have been a good thank you to both. But probably can get Uribe at less..
I’m not intersted in your opinion of Rent. This is about realities, not hatred.
And Dirty will not be traded unless Tim reclaims his form this year.
“4) Fred Lewis is having a decent year, but does not mean he would have had a decent year with us. He plays in a hitters league on a turf field that plays better for his speed and swing. Comparing his stats in Toronto to what they would have been in SF is apples and oranges.” That’s simply wrong, it is not an invalid comparison, his 2008 year was better than his 2010 has been until now.
I think I could hit .290 in the AL…
This is great. Actual facts and not platitudes about who loves who. Let’s stick to the NL West, because your points can be addressed in one sentence:
ALL THOSE GMs WERE FIRED, INCL. GM EMERITUS KEVIN TOWER, AND NO ONE CRIED ABOUT IT.
The continued myth spewed relentlessly on this blog and among Giants’ homers is that no one could do better than Sabean, it’s unfair, everyone else sucks too, it’s a crapshoot, etc., etc. The “everyone else sucks” platform is a loser – those GMs get fired.
As for trading J. Sanchez, I’d also be wary of considering Zito a lock to perform as well next year. Dirty will be 28 next year. He either continues to improve, or what you see is what you get. I’m betting on the favorable scenario.
But you are not going to get Uggla for Zito and you are not trading Lincecum or Bumgarner or Cain for him. I think Sanchez is really the only viable guy to consider for this specific deal. I am not saying it will haappen. But I rather have Uggla for one arb-eligible year I think than trading Cain for a multi-year deal for Fielder.
We’ll see. I think if we can make a run uin the playoffs,, we will see where we fall short. I dont see how wecan be competitive next year without solving the cleanup spot and I dont think we can expect to have Burrelll be there next year…
As you are all aware, I know less than shit about all this stuff. But on the surface, it seems to me Sabean wasn’t allowed to do a whole hell of a lot while Barry Bonds was still on the roster. It’s almost like he’s been on a 3 year do-over. That may be recognized. And can cut some slack on certain things. That being saiid, agreed all GMs have major fuck ups
TF, I never said Uribe is a lock. He could be offered more money elsewhere and then…adios. All I’m saying is that it’s a whole lot more likely they resign him than Rent-a-wreck.
It’s interesting that Burrell is considered a lock to go, a fading veteran, and Huff is going to be courted for big bucks. I say it’s a toss up as to who puts up better numbers in 2011.
Huff is the far more versatile, valuable defensive player…
I’ll go on record and say they’ll trade Dirrty in the offseason, for some sort of position player. Waiting for him at 28 for a light bulb to go off and turn into Randy Johnson after an ad hoc skull session with Nolan Ryan is a risk, but IMO a tiny risk. He’s pitched long enough to show what he’s about, at least with this organization and pitching coaches. A .500 pitcher, but a lefty. They’ll pick up a replacement on the FA market. Maybe they should get Nolan on the phone with him today…
As the brained know, there will no JSanchez trade unless Lincecum returns to form the rest of the way.
We’ll see come next April on this…
“Dennis, this Dingermania leaves when the heat wave leaves…” Except for J Sanchez, who gives ’em up because he’s an incurable head case who makes location mistakes.
He’s not just another lefty. The K and hits to IP ratios testify to that. He doesn’t need to be another Randy Johnson. Right now, he is an above avg. major league starter.
With the most walks of all MLB starters…
Did anyone notice the screw up in today’s Sporting Green?
Under the photo of Sandoval and Torres it says:
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It looks like on of my posts
funny talking next year when all the concentration should be on THIS one…
Multi-tasking…
that is a good point…
And a Lincecum-Zito-Cain-Llly-Bumgarner rotation is just as good as with Jonathan in it.
But a lineup with Uggla in the middle of it is a whole lot better than we can expect to have next year:
1) Torres – CF
2) Posey – C
3) Panda – 1B
4) Uggla – 2B
5) Huff – LF
6) Ross – RF
7) Uribe/Fontenot – SS
8) DeRosa/Franchez – 3B
I could see Panda playing some third with Uggla or Huff getting time at first and DeRosa in left…I think Bochy deserves credit how he has performed with a flexible lineup and there should be more flexibility next year. Burrell being brought back for $2 mill and getting some starts and Huff spelling Ross in right is also a sensible move…
Is there any backup for Torres’ on the horizon? If he gets hurt for any length of time this year or next, the offense stagnates, team speed grinds to an absolute halt, and the OF defense craters. Ford doesn’t look like a real possibility, even if he stays outta trouble…
Our concentration level will not affect how the Giants do the rest of the way, WSW.
obviously, but most of what i’m reading about next year is either wrong, or meaningless, with regards to the task at hand…
3/0 before we hit…certainly not what we’re hoping for.
You talk about what you want, OK? Tell me again how they’ll offer arb to Garkfuck…
Manny was just placed on trade waivers. I think we could use an eighth outfielder.
Might mean going to a 10-man staff. I’d be one happy camper.
Bum’s slurve looks totally hittable early. I’d go more FB, at least early. That’s my 2 cents.
Farmer John totally missed the target on that Votto HR. We better have our hittin’ shoes on—-again.
Given the records the last two years and the direction the teams are going, there’s good reason the other guys got canned, JedFuckWad.
So you have no response that includes any analysis besides saying “they didn’t go to the playoffs, dude”? The target of your list was first / sandwich round picks and yet you haven’t addressed why Sabean deserves the “dunce” tag for his first rounders. No wonder nobody here can stand you.
Son of a bitch. That’s 10 bombs given up so far this yr. about 1/7 innings. Shit no good.
This is a motherfucking joke.
Sheezus, maybe I should have said 8-5 after 4 innings…
Ouch! What happened? Granny?
Pretty important to at least get a Nedney field goal here.
And to think, some of you were championing moving in the fences. Shaddup!
Dennis, this Dingermania leaves when the heat wave leaves…
Damn. So much for Bumgarner as the *1*.
Why? Because of one poor inning? Based on recent history and this weather, it’s 14-0 if Tim is out there.
Well I was going to leave work early to catch the day game on the boob tube…
Hard to come out hot after running arounfd the bases for 267 runs back to back nights…I was hoping to see Belt and the Flying Squirels this week till getting sick. Will try and get out to see them labor day weekend before the season ends…
or 27 runs….
Jed, I think you miss the point. Sabean’s NOT getting fired, so why keep going on about it? He’ll at least complete the end of his contract NEXT season, and then who knows- maybe the Giants will sign him for even longer. Wow! Think of the material that’ll give you to bore us with.
Flavor invited the discussion. Point noted, don’t raise any issues that might question the faithful. “Yeah, we’re number 1, baby! Hoooweee!”
Wow- you got through that sentence without mentioning the garlic fries. Kudos to you.
I have said this several times before. I have no problem with questioning how the team is managed. Hell, I thought Sabean should have been fired a couple of years ago. The issue that I have is the same as what several people have expressed: it’s the lack of logical reasoning behind your criticism. It’s like Sabean grabbed your kitty cat by the scruff and threw it in the trash and now you want to take it out on him on a blog.
Belt was just promoted to Fresno, and will be in the starting lineup tonight.
Precursor to a Sept callup?
He’s still not on the 40-man, and with all the recent adds…..?
why start any clock at all…
damn Dennis..I waited too long!
You fail to grasp my argument – it has nothing to do with bringing down other GMs. I think at times that Sabean has sucked and at times he’s been good. The point I was trying to make is that thinking you’ve proven some great point by listing first rounders and calling a guy a dunce is straight up retarded. I personally think that given the last few years, Sabean’s first rounders actually measure up fairly well. Not great, but pretty good. It was an interesting exercise for me to see all the first rounders for the NL West over a 15 year span. It helped to confirm for me that losing picks FAR outnumber winning picks. The only thing you got out of it is that we are all idiots and you’re the only guy who gets it. Wow.