A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball

Zito Will Retain His Spot When He Comes Back

Posted in Uncategorized by Flavor on May 15, 2011

First off, Voggy is pitching over his head and even if you don’t know this, the Giants brass knows it. Voggy is a #5, a guy who is going to give you decent starts with an implosion and a shutout thrown in for good measure. We all love Voggy now and that’s why this is so hard to swallow, but Zito will get his spot back when he’s healthy and Voggy will go to the bullpen as THE long relief pitcher.

And actually, that’s the right call. Forget the idea of Zito going to the bullpen. Zito couldn’t pitch out of the bullpen successfully if you offered him a 126 million dollar extension and you forced the opposing batters to use bamboo baseball bats. He’s just not suited for it…..

Voggy can do the long relief thing, he’s done it before. And whatever Raggs and Gardner are feeding this guy, he’s eating it. I’m confident that he’d handle the role well.

And this is the main reason why Voggy takes that job when Zito comes back: it’s a role we need to have filled. Mota is the long guy right now but frankly, Mota should be pitching the 8th inning. He’s been our best, most consistent reliever this year and some combo of he and Romo should be taking the 8th inning job. If that starts happening we really won’t have  a long guy (Has Runzler been sent to Fresno yet?). That guy is Voggy……..

Besides, with Zito imploding in the 3rd inning of every game we are going to need a long guy more than ever. Voggy…….

Everyone is saying there will be a phantom injury to fix the Zito problem but it really doesn’t apply here unless the injury is to one of the other 4 starting pitchers.

So let’s enjoy Voggy pitching over his head while he continues to do so. Like the rest of you, I appreciated that start last night in the freezing cold without long sleeves. Think Zito could have done that? Ba ha……

Voggy is a man of the people. He’s a blue collar guy, a cap tipper. And pretty soon, he’s gonna be our #1 long relief guy…….

If you’re still having trouble accepting this just think of it this way. Once Zito takes back Voggy’s spot and starts turning in multiple crap performances, it’ll just allow you to hate Zito just a little bit more than you do right now. Who doesn’t enjoy themselves a good “Hate Barry” session?

133 Responses

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  1. TedSpe's avatar TedSpe said, on May 15, 2011 at 7:54 am

    I think you’re right and I think Vogelsong, unless he’s a complete idiot, is aware of it as well. So the only fallout, unless Vogelsong gets completely destroyed in a start or two, will come from zealous and perhaps naive fans

  2. Rough Trade's avatar Rough Trade said, on May 15, 2011 at 8:03 am

    I agree with the analysis Flavor, but if Casilla forces Runzler down, they would have to cut someone else to make room for Vogelsong.

    • TedSpe's avatar TedSpe said, on May 15, 2011 at 8:09 am

      Affeldt?

  3. Rough Trade's avatar Rough Trade said, on May 15, 2011 at 8:07 am

    I’m also wondering how the option thing applies now for a guy like Voggy.

  4. Big Flavor's avatar Big Flavor said, on May 15, 2011 at 8:09 am

    you know, I’m not so certain that Casilla has a spot locked up in that bullpen. They’ve been awfully slow in bringing him back. I’m not saying he won’t replace Runzler, I could see that. But then who are our left handed guys down in that bullpen? Affeldt? Christ, say it isn’t so.
    In fact, we have a fairly large problem RIGHT NOW in our bullpen with no reliable left handed guys……

  5. TedSpe's avatar TedSpe said, on May 15, 2011 at 8:11 am

    BTW, this is the same topic on the Splash

    • Big Flavor's avatar Big Flavor said, on May 15, 2011 at 8:13 am

      I know, I read it and couldn’t believe that Schulman couldn’t figure this out. It’s pretty simple, really……

    • TedSpe's avatar TedSpe said, on May 15, 2011 at 8:31 am

      Yes. Odd that

    • xootsuit's avatar xootsuit said, on May 15, 2011 at 8:35 am

      I disagree. The simple approach is blunt. With Vogelsong pitching every fifth day, they’re racking up early season wins. Why jeopardize that?

  6. Big Flavor's avatar Big Flavor said, on May 15, 2011 at 8:12 am

    sorry, obviously we have Lopez down there too. But still, he’s it right now of lefties I trust to take the hill from the bullpen

  7. xootsuit's avatar xootsuit said, on May 15, 2011 at 8:32 am

    I think they’ll put Zito in the BP for long relief to complete his “rehab,” with the expressly announced intent of putting him back into the rotation. Implicitly, it will be Vogelsong who will switch out with Zito, when Zito’s “ready.” A lot can happen between then and now, however. That approach gives Bochy maximum flexibility, over a longer period of time. There’s no reason to engineer a big conflict now, every reason to engineer around one.

  8. Del Mar Dennis's avatar Del Mar Dennis said, on May 15, 2011 at 8:32 am

    Gomez is back! But so is Tejada. So much for a perfect Sunday morning…

    CF Torres, 2B Sanchez, 1B Huff, C Posey, RF Ross, LF Burrell, 3B DeRosa, SS Tejada, Lincecum P

    • Del Mar Dennis's avatar Del Mar Dennis said, on May 15, 2011 at 8:40 am

      I guess the original lineup had Shitholtz and Font penciled in. Not sure why Bochy make the changes.
      What I’m really not sure about is why Tejada’s name appeared on both lineups.

      • Del Mar Dennis's avatar Del Mar Dennis said, on May 15, 2011 at 8:47 am

        Even Tejada couldn’t screw up today’s lineup; the game’s been postponed. Go mow the lawn.

      • Nipper's avatar Nipper said, on May 15, 2011 at 12:09 pm

        Dennis…. go get a cheap one.

    • Bozo's avatar Bozo said, on May 15, 2011 at 9:10 am

      Hey I just nixed a Gomez on my FL team. Got rid of Jonny Gomez for Laynce Nix. It appears that neither of them could spell their first name so it was a toss up.

  9. Macdog's avatar Macdog said, on May 15, 2011 at 8:46 am

    Rainout, according to mlb.com.

  10. willied's avatar willied said, on May 15, 2011 at 8:47 am

    How many LHP guys in the pen do you really need? Lopez dominates, bochy still runs Affeldt out there and trusts him, short term. Runzler just has not taken on the role very effectively…maybe he does need to start, tho not here.
    Casilla is a nice problem to have, and fills in wherever needed; he’s another guy that is really tough to hit (and catch, agreed). The more rest you can give to romo, ramirez and mota the better, esp down the road.

  11. twinfan's avatar twinfan said, on May 15, 2011 at 8:50 am

    Runzler will go down when Casilla is back . I can’t believe you can’t figure this out..
    And there is zero way you know what what happen with Zits. One: the story this spring by Jenkins was obviously given to to him by someone in the know. It’s also distinctly possible that Dirty goes in a SS trade. I wouldn’t have thought even a week ago but no one, including Flavor, thought that Miggy would be this bad. And as as to the mystery injury scenario, we already have it. Now they’re talking a couple months total for an injury that initially wasn’t even certain to get him on the DL.
    Most important, though, Vogelsong’s performance. Zits is 0-1 6.23. Vogelsong is 3-0 2.36. Unless Ryan DOES implode he’s staying in the rotation. Book it, Room Bermuda..

    • Nipper's avatar Nipper said, on May 15, 2011 at 12:07 pm

      Book it, Dano!

  12. blade3colorado's avatar blade3colorado said, on May 15, 2011 at 9:13 am

    Detroit/Kansas game PPD too.

  13. twinfan's avatar twinfan said, on May 15, 2011 at 9:14 am

    “Bermuda” is your screensaver, BTW. The room is still a miserable, stinky hovel..

    • Bozo's avatar Bozo said, on May 15, 2011 at 9:21 am

      “The room is still a miserable, stinky hovel.”

      That’s funny. Oh the visions, the visions, make them stop.

    • Nipper's avatar Nipper said, on May 15, 2011 at 12:08 pm

      We love it that way! Just like the STICK.

  14. willied's avatar willied said, on May 15, 2011 at 9:20 am

    Apropos of nothing…looking through an old “converse 1972 basketball yearbook”…and on NAIA all america selections page on the third team is Ed Halicki, listed as 6-7 from Monmouth College of NJ. He avg. 21 ppg a game, and apparently gave up college that summer to go play pro baseball. Rest would of course be history, including the last no-no done at home b4 sanchez.

  15. stixwiz's avatar stixwiz said, on May 15, 2011 at 9:24 am

    Been harping on it constantly. So far, Affeldt has been a bust when called on to start an inning and for the most part in fireman appearances. He still figures, though, as a situational loogie. Lopez is gold. He can go situational or he can face from 2-5 batters with a high measure of success. As usual, Twin calls it for Casilla replacing Runzler.

    For some little while now, i’ve foreseen Drrrty going for a SS. Doubtful whether it would be a one on one, though. Several players could get involved so that both sides feel there is a reasonably even shot.

    There are not many shortstops out there who could command a Sanchez trade. Reyes would be the obvious one, but it shouldn’t happen unless there is an agreement (under the table, probably) of him sticking beyond the F.A. window. That would entail a prior agreement (messy as agents get involved in those things) as to a term contract. There, anything more than three years would be totally stoopid. Something like 2 years at $30M or three at $42M with a club option might do it. Idea would be to give him high dollar guaranteed, but keep it short and sweet.

    • blade3colorado's avatar blade3colorado said, on May 15, 2011 at 9:34 am

      Actually Stix, I like two other shortstops – Lowrie of Boston (but probably too difficult to get him in lieu of Scutaro injury) and Cabrera of Cleveland.

      • blade3colorado's avatar blade3colorado said, on May 15, 2011 at 9:35 am

        Also, I like Lowrie’s ability to play 2nd and 3rd base positions.

      • stixwiz's avatar stixwiz said, on May 15, 2011 at 10:13 am

        Blade: Glad you responded with suggestions. I’m gonna have to get off my lazybutt and do some research on Cabrera and Lowrie. R.T.: You mention Hardy. He may cost more than a Runzler unless Baltimore is enamored with Runzler’s potential, which is still pretty high, judging mainly by his velocity. My suspicion is that in place of Sanchez, Zach Wheeler may surface in discussions on this topic.

        Unless Tejada has a breakout that lasts for more than a day or two, the likelihood of the Giants making a move fairly soon for a reliable SS jumps right out at you. Any signs of life on the part of DeRosa appear to be fading pretty rapidly. Though Twin tells us that Brandon Crawford has been picking it up, it would be a stretch to see him getting the call anytime soon. If he continues to progress, a cup of coffee come September may well be in order, though that does not address the gaping maw that the position now represents for the Giants.

        The team needs a SS who is at least competent defensively and ideally can hit .250 or so. So we don’t need a world beater necessarily, just somebody who is a notch or two above steady state embarrassment. Such a candidate would not necessitate a Sanchez. But who would this be?

  16. twinfan's avatar twinfan said, on May 15, 2011 at 9:25 am

    With that out of the way, they WOULD have to trade or release someone besides Runzler (he’ll aready be gone) if Zits were allowed re-entry. It won’t be Affedlt, they need two lefties and despite some struggles, he’s quality . You know what? The only guy to release for Zito…. is Zito.

  17. Del Mar Dennis's avatar Del Mar Dennis said, on May 15, 2011 at 9:40 am

    What to do with Zito? The sports world has lost quite a few members this past week; Seve Ballesteros, Michael Baze, Robert Traylor, Ron Springs, Aaron Douglas and Derek Boogaard. May they all RIP.

    I don’t think the sports world would miss one more. Just saying…

  18. Del Mar Dennis's avatar Del Mar Dennis said, on May 15, 2011 at 9:52 am

    Timmy getting an extra day of rest to face the Rox tomorrow has to be positive.
    The pen gets one as well. All things considered, today’s postponement bolsters our chances in Colorado.
    Thank you Mother Nature.

    • zumarust's avatar zumarust said, on May 15, 2011 at 9:59 am

      This rainout works well for the Giants, I agree. And it gives us Cain starting the first game against L.A.

  19. Rough Trade's avatar Rough Trade said, on May 15, 2011 at 9:54 am

    It’s all about pitching now. They need to keep the big 4 intact if they want to take on the likes of Philly Atl Cinn..
    The SS market was reed thin last yr. Tejada, Cabrerra, Izsturis, Renteria, Uribe, Bartlett and JJ Hardy were the guys avail. Of those, Hardy is one to keep an eye on. He’s off to a pretty good start in just 11 games. If he’s going well and Baltimore is out of it as expected, you could probably get him at the deadline for no more than a Runzler.

    • zumarust's avatar zumarust said, on May 15, 2011 at 10:00 am

      A shortstop for Runzler would be a nice trade. Is Runzler enough?

  20. zumarust's avatar zumarust said, on May 15, 2011 at 9:57 am

    I don’t like a J. Sanchez trade for a shortstop, but I don’t know what the answer is, with two duds like Tejada and DeRosa on the roster. Vogelsong is a good #5, but if we end up relying on him as #4, I don’t like that too much.

    • twinfan's avatar twinfan said, on May 15, 2011 at 10:30 am

      I don’t like it either-and it would have to be an All-Star caliber SS…a possibilty is they roll the dice with Crawford if Miggy doesn’t pick it up- quickly. Yesterday was brutal.

  21. blade3colorado's avatar blade3colorado said, on May 15, 2011 at 10:18 am

    Speaking of LA Zum – Furcal comes off the DL tomorrow and will probably play against the Giants.

  22. DJLoo's avatar DJLoo said, on May 15, 2011 at 10:23 am

    Rainout? Does this mean I have to go outside?

  23. Flavor's avatar Flavor said, on May 15, 2011 at 10:26 am

    Furcal will just hurt himself again–dude will never be healthy again…….
    For those of you who start with “if Voggy keeps pitching like this”…Listen to me, Voggy will not keep pitching like this. Over the course of an entire season, he’d probably pitch a little better than Zito but he’d get several more wins because he wouldn’t have to deal with Zito’s Law.
    Voggy will go to long relief as I said for all the reasons I listed…….

    • twinfan's avatar twinfan said, on May 15, 2011 at 10:37 am

      As Henry pointed out, a lot can happen now and when a decision has to be made. You have zero idea what will go down. But if Vogelsong pitches poorly enough to lose his spot in the rotation, he won’t be pitching any fucking long relief, he’d be DFAed.

  24. dirtnrocksnomo's avatar dirtnrocksnreno said, on May 15, 2011 at 10:26 am

    Hard to see Sabean moving any SPs during the season. Unless it is Zito and that move won’t involve a player in return. Too bad SF didn’t offer Renteria $2-3M.

  25. stixwiz's avatar stixwiz said, on May 15, 2011 at 10:28 am

    Zooms: We are starting to have some fair idea of what we are getting with Vogelsong. Granted, he is not a super talented young stud pitcher. Also, he can lose it like we saw in that game vs the Mutts, with those two dingers. If you do some research on the guys who did the big damage, you will find that Ryan was far from the only pitcher victimized by those guys.

    We do know that our singing bird has plenty of heart and is also extremely motivated. My read, at this point, is that he IS way over his head in terms of his ultimate ERA and W-L record. He is not likely to end up with an Earned Run Average a tad over two per. Most probably what we will end up with is a guy in the range of 3.65 to 4.15. Though not that comparable to those Aces at the top, it would be acceptable for a #4 and excellent for a #5.

    Two or three consecutive dumps and i will maybe change my mind about the Little Birdie that Could. I don’t expect that, though. Was it just yesterday that i mentioned he could be a slow learner like Torres? Even more so than position players, pitchers face a potentially huge learning curve, with very, very few of them being fast-trackers like Cain, Timmy, Sanchez and Bumgarner. Some excellent scouting gave SF that foursome. So Giants fans are a bit spoiled and have soaring expectations. Perhaps the SF scout who originally signed Vogelsong was gifted with a foresight even he could not have anticipated.

    • zumarust's avatar zumarust said, on May 15, 2011 at 10:36 am

      The cool thing is- even though the Giants have some question marks to sort out, we’re still in firstplace so far anyway, having survived that early season schedule disadvantage.

  26. Flavor's avatar Flavor said, on May 15, 2011 at 10:35 am

    DIRT–agreed, he’s not trading fucking Dirrrrty at this point in the season. For one, his value is low. For two, if you don’t HAVE to trade your SP why would you trade a piece of it when it’s value is low? That’d just be stupid……

  27. dirtnrocksnomo's avatar dirtnrocksnreno said, on May 15, 2011 at 10:45 am

    For all the angst around Sanchez he’s still racking up the Ks and minimizing hit allowed. His ERA is above league average and of course the walks. He gets results but the process is painful to watch at times. He is what he is but I’ll still take that over a slight improvement at SS.

  28. twinfan's avatar twinfan said, on May 15, 2011 at 10:45 am

    They’d trade Dirty under the circumstances I’ve outlined. Flavor has always thought Dirty’s value is low, he wanted him out of the rotation in 2009. This will sort out over the next month or so- Ryan will have 4 or 5 more starts, enough to make a decision about him.

    • blade3colorado's avatar blade3colorado said, on May 15, 2011 at 10:55 am

      Mike Question (or anyone else) – do you think they would consider trading Vogelsong for a position player if he continued to pitch those “4 or 5 more starts” at his current level or a bit below that level?

      Since Zito really has no trade value and most people do not want to give up Sanchez, I was thinking that Ryan would be the perfect sell “high” candidate, while the selling is good. We already know what we get with Zito, which is a serviceable 5th starter.

  29. zumarust's avatar zumarust said, on May 15, 2011 at 10:46 am

    I’m enjoying the book “The Greatest Game Ever Pitched,” by Jim Kaplan. It’s about the July 2, 1963, 16-inning (!) pitching duel between Marichal and Spahn.
    The book uses that game as a framework to also flashback and weave biographies of Marichal and Spahn together. The author is a terrific writer.

  30. blade3colorado's avatar blade3colorado said, on May 15, 2011 at 10:49 am

    We’re just talking shit here, which is fun. That’s why (at least) my name doesn’t end in Sabean. Tejada can be whomever he wants to be until just before the trade deadline. Same goes for anyone else who isn’t carrying their weight . . . Being in 1st place (or near 1st place) forces the “other guy” to make unnecessary trades and/or deal from a position of weakness.

    In Sabean, Bow Tie and Bochy I trust (just like the dollar bill says).

    • dirtnrocksnomo's avatar dirtnrocksnreno said, on May 15, 2011 at 10:56 am

      I liked your Cabrera mention earlier. I like him too but that is probably because I’ve had him on the FL roster.

      • blade3colorado's avatar blade3colorado said, on May 15, 2011 at 10:58 am

        YEAH AND YOU WONT TRADE HIM TO ME JOE!!!!!!!!!!

        LOL

      • dirtnrocksnomo's avatar dirtnrocksnreno said, on May 15, 2011 at 11:07 am

        HaHa. Well, like you said the other day we can agree that we’ve come to an impasse. In other words neither of us likes the one sided trades we’ve exchanged. I like that Pittsburg OF though but he’s cratering a bit.

      • blade3colorado's avatar blade3colorado said, on May 15, 2011 at 11:31 am

        For who? Tabata? Who would you give me?

  31. Flavor's avatar Flavor said, on May 15, 2011 at 10:51 am

    Dirrrrty’s value is on the low end right now because of all the bb’s and the obvious question about where his head is at. Pretty much every single person discussing (broadcasters, players, coaches) say this is mental. How much does a mental head case go for these days? Not much……
    Just as Voggy won’t maintain his current numbers I don’t think we are looking at a pending implosion, either. Raggs and Gardner are into this guy’s head and he’s listening. Really, it’s a fabulous story that, barring a DL stint for any of the other 4 SP’s, will end with becoming the long guy in the bullpen for the rest of the year–maybe a spot start when needed. It’s a nice luxury to have. And as I’ve said many times, the guy is easy to like—gritty, gutty. Good qualities for a pitcher……

  32. dirtnrocksnomo's avatar dirtnrocksnreno said, on May 15, 2011 at 10:54 am

    Twin, agree that Crawford is more likely for at least a look. SS is the one spot that Sabean has never made much sense to me. He values D at first, 2nd an CF but SS has generally been a stop gap position. Visquel is the only plus defender that immediately comes to mind and he was bridging the gap on shit clubs.

  33. Flavor's avatar Flavor said, on May 15, 2011 at 11:00 am

    Hell, I’d be fine if they kept Font there. You get better d than from either Tejada or DeRosa and you get an actual, occasional BASE HIT that neither of the other two guys ever seem to get…..
    Have you guys noticed that Tejada’s power is so depleted that he’s not really even hitting fly balls anymore? Every ball he seems to hit fair (or hard) is to third base or in between SS and 3rd base. And then there’s always that odd celebration dance down at first base…..

  34. twinfan's avatar twinfan said, on May 15, 2011 at 11:03 am

    As I said- Vogelsong will be in the rotation or DFAed. As to “headcase”, right now MadBum should be the bigger concern. As I pointed out- Dirty loses focus, Madison is a hothead. A Zambrano-sytle expolosion is not unlikely. Did you see him in the dugout after the big inning? He was ready to kill.

  35. dirtnrocksnomo's avatar dirtnrocksnreno said, on May 15, 2011 at 11:03 am

    I have noticed that lame Rangeresque hand gesture from a couple different guys around the league. Not digging it.

  36. Flavor's avatar Flavor said, on May 15, 2011 at 11:06 am

    stay in rotation or be DFAed? Ha, ok, make sure you don’t delete anything from this thread, we can come back and review it after Zito comes back and see who was ultimately correct……

    • twinfan's avatar twinfan said, on May 15, 2011 at 11:14 am

      Refresh my memory, did Belt open on the 25? Doesn’t matter if he ultimately went down- you motherfucking GUARATEED he wasn’t going north under any circumstances. Over and over and over. Get smart for a change- pay attention to Mikey. You got those threads saved?

      • Flavor's avatar Flavor said, on May 15, 2011 at 11:25 am

        Tejada: 20 hrs? Next.

      • Flavor's avatar Flavor said, on May 15, 2011 at 11:25 am

        and the ONLY reason Belt stayed was due to an injury. Otherwise he would have started in AAA.

      • twinfan's avatar twinfan said, on May 15, 2011 at 11:39 am

        You were wrong-and loudly, obnoxiously so, as with Torres..
        “I’ve already said that I think we are going to start the season slowly.”
        Yeah, they’re barely in first- “NEXT”

      • Flavor's avatar Flavor said, on May 15, 2011 at 11:54 am

        what team did you watch in April? They DID start the season slowly, exactly as I said they would. Once they got off that brutal first 31 games to start the season they won 6 straight at home and then hit first place. I said 15-18 to start, I think I was off by a game or two. You said they’d win 98 this year. You’ve got a long way to go to get to that number. In fact, they are just about exactly on pace to hit my win total of 92

      • twinfan's avatar twinfan said, on May 15, 2011 at 12:08 pm

        They play through September, pal. And they were 17-16, that’s NOT close over just 33 games. First place after the injuries to Ross, Sandoval, Torres- 98 looks golden..

      • Flavor's avatar Flavor said, on May 15, 2011 at 12:12 pm

        I’ll admit that I fucked up counting the number of road games to start the season. I did it off the first 33 games but it was really the first 31 and then they came back and hit that 6-0 homestand.

  37. twinfan's avatar twinfan said, on May 15, 2011 at 11:06 am

    They will not go with Fontenot. If they bail on Tejada it will be Crawford or a trade.

  38. James's avatar James said, on May 15, 2011 at 11:20 am

    “Pretty much every single person discussing (broadcasters, players, coaches) say this is mental.” Sanchez’s assessment of himself is more straightforward: he’s not throwing enough strikes. He doesn’t throw enough strikes because it is a limitation of his skills. That limitation has not prevented him from becoming a successful pitcher.

    Again, Vogelsong is not doing this with an 88-90 mph fastball. His chances of becoming another John Burkett at age 33 are small. Instead, he is throwing at Matt Cain cruising velocity. The current K total is what gives me some hope that he can put together a nice year in which his long, hard won refinement of skills matches that surprising fastball.

  39. dirtnrocksnomo's avatar dirtnrocksnreno said, on May 15, 2011 at 11:24 am

    I could see Vogelsong sticking in the long spot for a stint. Mota has been lights out but peaks and valleys are going to happen over the season and Vogelsong offers more flexibility than say Runzler.

    • blade3colorado's avatar blade3colorado said, on May 15, 2011 at 11:32 am

      Joe – see above . . . You’ve got my interest again in regard to a trade.

    • twinfan's avatar twinfan said, on May 15, 2011 at 11:33 am

      He won’t be in the long spot. If he’s pitching well enough to stay at all, he’ll be starting. Pay attention here: Runzler will be gone. To keep Vogelsong AND Zito ,another reliever has to go. Everyone of them are proven, sucessful relievers. None are going down.

      • Flavor's avatar Flavor said, on May 15, 2011 at 11:44 am

        i understand Casilla will be replacing Runzler, everyone already knows this. I don’t think Casilla’s spot is guaranteed after that though. And it would surprise me a bit if they gave Affeldt a DL stint. The question isn’t will Zits and Voggy both be on the roster. I think that’s a given. The question is what role will each have and I have deftly outlined, with sound reasoning, the role for each…….

  40. twinfan's avatar twinfan said, on May 15, 2011 at 11:27 am

    James notes an imporant point- that 24 to 8 K ratio in 27 innings isn’t Sadowski shit- it’s quality.

  41. twinfan's avatar twinfan said, on May 15, 2011 at 11:58 am

    Saying it doesn’t make it so, Sobbenstein. For one, as I deftly pointed out -a lot can happen in a month- they could both be in the rotation -or neither. But get this clear,son: your notion that Zito replaces Vogelsong regardless of how Ryan is pitching, is utter bullshit. The only way Zits takes Ryan’s job is if Vogelsong is SUCKING- in which case he will be released.

  42. Flavor's avatar Flavor said, on May 15, 2011 at 12:03 pm

    by the way, we started the season 15-16 and when you’re the WS winner, that qualifies as starting slowly…..
    I agree that if Voggy implodes he will be released and that would make the decision super easy. That’s not my argument. As I said, he won’t stay this hot but I don’t think he’ll implode. He’ll look like a nice little 4/5 by the time Zito comes back. And that’s when Zito takes his job and he heads to the BP as the long guy. Now, sit back, STFU and watch it unfold one way or the other. One of us will be right and one of us will be wrong (unless Voggy implodes and is released, we both agree on that)…….

    • twinfan's avatar twinfan said, on May 15, 2011 at 12:12 pm

      Funny, you bail on your own call- they were 17-16, THAT was your sample size, very dishonest. And don’t tell me to shut the fuck up.

      • twinfan's avatar twinfan said, on May 15, 2011 at 12:17 pm

        I shouldn’t say “bailed”, you fudged the 15-18 to make it look better.

  43. Flavor's avatar Flavor said, on May 15, 2011 at 12:14 pm

    they did start 15-16. And as I said in the other comment above, I fucked up counting the number of road games to start the season. I based it off the first 33 but it was really the first 31 and then they came home…..
    All right, no baseball, and I am out for the next several hours. You guys have a good one…..

    • twinfan's avatar twinfan said, on May 15, 2011 at 12:19 pm

      Pathetic. You said 15-18 over and over. That’s your call, Soph.

  44. TedSpe's avatar TedSpe said, on May 15, 2011 at 12:16 pm

    SHUT THE FUCK UP

    • twinfan's avatar twinfan said, on May 15, 2011 at 12:20 pm

      Who are talking to?

    • TedSpe's avatar TedSpe said, on May 15, 2011 at 12:24 pm

      Mr. DeNiro

  45. TedSpe's avatar TedSpe said, on May 15, 2011 at 12:17 pm

    I’m jst saying…

  46. snarkk's avatar snarkk said, on May 15, 2011 at 12:20 pm

    Yeah, the chances are Vsong comes back to earth at some point over the next few weeks, but it might be a soft landing. He’s not 33 and where he is because he was great and everybody just overlooked him. But, I agree with Oracle. See what he does, first. If he does reasonably well, I don’t see that Zito is a lock to come back. They are going to have him do a coupla tuneups with Fresno. If he gets shelled there, then what, still bring him up? It’s a more fluid situation than most of us think, IMO. Why on earth would a team bring back the suckage and negative vibe to the team of Zito, if Vsong is battling, maybe somewhere under a 4 ERA, and the team plays better and wins at least half the time in back of him? They are 4-0 in games he’s pitched. If the only reason for the return of Zitoid is the contract, then that’s no reason at all at this point. The Giants owe Zito nothing in the way of playing time. The fans clearly would support Zito being sent to Siberia, or the Yankees. The only thing stopping Zito from getting jettisoned permanently is the front office not wanting to look like shmos with so much time left on his deal — but, the dough is spent, and he’s not going to improve. They just won the WS fer Kreisakes, they have very effective schmo anti-perspirant…

  47. blade3colorado's avatar blade3colorado said, on May 15, 2011 at 12:23 pm

    LQTM. “. . . schmo anti-persperant.”

    Good one Snarkk!

  48. zumarust's avatar zumarust said, on May 15, 2011 at 12:32 pm

    Giants fans are put in the unpleasant situation of having to root for Latos today against the Rockies. Latos looks like one of those Nazi white-kids from the Karate Kid movies.

  49. twinfan's avatar twinfan said, on May 15, 2011 at 12:32 pm

    Flavor had ’em 3 under after the road, so he changes it to one under after realizing his error. Weak.

  50. Big flavor's avatar Big flavor said, on May 15, 2011 at 12:50 pm

    I didn’t change my pick u dumbshit, I said I didn’t count the # of games to start the season correctly. Think about it, why would I do it 2 gms into the homestand? I based the prediction off all those rd games to start the season which I thot was 33. It was 31. All I did was point out they went 15-16 to start the yr. My 15-18 was always my prediction and I never changed it.

    • twinfan's avatar twinfan said, on May 15, 2011 at 1:06 pm

      Well, glad to hear you weren’t attempting another welsh. One has to wonder how off Flavor would have been if the injuries to Torres and Sandoval could have been foretold. 10- 23 maybe?

  51. twinfan's avatar twinfan said, on May 15, 2011 at 1:01 pm

    After Zits was left off the postseason roster after going 2-10 4.70 the second half of 2010-then promptly starts 2011 0-1 6.23… they’re not saving a rotation spot for him.He gets it if someone else is injured or approaches Zits-level suckitude. Otherwise, he’s out.

  52. twinfan's avatar twinfan said, on May 15, 2011 at 1:22 pm

    Maybe more interesting than the preseason W-L predictions would be how often a commenter wrote them off. We knows it’s a hundred or more for Dennis but it would be fun to see some others.

  53. James's avatar James said, on May 15, 2011 at 1:29 pm

    I don’t know if I published my 94 win prediction on the flap, but I have already forsaken My Lordly Giants once in an IM with a co-worker . . . .

    • snarkk's avatar snarkk said, on May 15, 2011 at 1:32 pm

      That’ll be one Our Father, and 4 Hail Mary’s. Giantimus vobiscum…

  54. twinfan's avatar twinfan said, on May 15, 2011 at 1:40 pm

    Well, I’ll heed the bosse’s adivce and shut the fuck up for the day… as much as they’re dissed here, there are more and “better” doomorons on the Splash. I’ll see to them for awhile. As I’ve noted, they are like the Undead: they are many but they are slow, stupid, and easily toppled…

  55. DJLoo's avatar DJLoo said, on May 15, 2011 at 2:02 pm

    Wow, all the snow melted.

  56. mrmrbill's avatar mrmrbill said, on May 15, 2011 at 2:43 pm

    Padres whacking the Rox again … 8-2 in the 8th.

  57. TedSpe's avatar TedSpe said, on May 15, 2011 at 3:01 pm

    Rainouts…suck

    • mrmrbill's avatar mrmrbill said, on May 15, 2011 at 3:28 pm

      Yes, but there’s always a rainbow. This morning, we were 1gm on top of first place. And though we didn’t even play, we’re now 1.5 (Rox got killed, thx Padres!). Productive day for not lifting a finger.

  58. DJLoo's avatar DJLoo said, on May 15, 2011 at 6:23 pm

    I see that the game will be made up as part of a day-night doubleheader on June 28, when the Giants begin another series there. Since when do they go to Chicago 2x in one year?

    • xootsuit's avatar xootsuit said, on May 15, 2011 at 6:36 pm

      89 and 98.

      • twinfan's avatar twinfan said, on May 15, 2011 at 7:34 pm

        Adjoining rooms at the Warsaw Hilton?

  59. stixwiz's avatar stixwiz said, on May 15, 2011 at 7:30 pm

    Nice to be noticed. Brad Evans, who does the Yahoo fantasy blog must keep a pretty close eye on the game. For the few games Andres Torres has been back, Evans has decided #56 is not a one-season flash in the pan, considering him quite underrated as outfielder #59 in the fantasy circuit with a value of about $1.30. Evans noted that though Torres is not likely to match his power numbers for the Gigantes, he is a good bet for steals and runs scored. Several Flappers could have told him that, but its nice when these guys discover hidden treasure on the Giants roster all by themselves.

    Of course, discoveries do come a bit quicker when your team happens to be World Champs.

  60. twinfan's avatar twinfan said, on May 15, 2011 at 7:47 pm

    Fangraphs was a great site for tracking Andres last year. Even here, he’s still grossly underrated. He was the 5th most valuable OFer in MLB last year..
    http://tinyurl.com/3jv89ck

  61. Flavor's avatar Flavor said, on May 15, 2011 at 7:49 pm

    I love having him atop the LU. Praying that he keeps his legs healthy this year…..

    • DJLoo's avatar DJLoo said, on May 15, 2011 at 8:04 pm

      and his appendix, too…

  62. Flavor's avatar Flavor said, on May 15, 2011 at 7:54 pm

    I’ll always love watching the Yankee drama unfold. Posada’s fucking WIFE tweets he’s got a bad back when it was obvious to everyone that he basically said fuck you to Girardi yesterday. Dudes have got to keep of their wives tweets, lol. They don’t have enough pitching, AROD is in a desperate slump, and somehow Posada is actually MORE DONE than Jeter. Ha, this will be an entertaining year in the Bronx. CC is counting the days until he can walk away from his last 92 million……..

  63. twinfan's avatar twinfan said, on May 15, 2011 at 8:05 pm

    Even if he wasn’t a great man, the passing of the head of Nathan’s Famous must be noted for his name alone. RIP Murray Handwerker…
    dog

    • DJLoo's avatar DJLoo said, on May 15, 2011 at 8:07 pm

      Ever been to Coney Island, Twin?

  64. Flavor's avatar Flavor said, on May 15, 2011 at 8:11 pm

    I still think Nathan’s dogs are the best. Twin, HOW DO YOU INSERT A PHOTO INTO A COMMENT???????????????

  65. twinfan's avatar twinfan said, on May 15, 2011 at 8:11 pm

    Nope. I was only to NYC once, in 1965 on one of the Twin’s roadtrips..I’ve talked about that summer of a lifetime before.

    • TedSpe's avatar TedSpe said, on May 15, 2011 at 8:24 pm

      As you have. But it was a good story. Tell it again.
      Please.
      Or SHUT THE FUCK UP
      Mr. DeNiro 😉

      • twinfan's avatar twinfan said, on May 15, 2011 at 8:36 pm

        It’s too long-but I got drunk with Billy Martin, got a date with the stewardess, and shagged fly balls with Tony Oliva at Yankee Stadium…dying then would have been OK…

  66. twinfan's avatar twinfan said, on May 15, 2011 at 8:32 pm

    First I make the comment. Then go to “edit”. Then to the “image” tab. You may have to “allow scripted windows”. Have the URL of your photo ready and paste it in the window ( make sure your cursor is where you want the photo inserted). Then “update comment”. Try it.

    • Flavor's avatar Flavor said, on May 15, 2011 at 8:34 pm

      thank you. You are the man……THE MAN……!….?

      • Flavor's avatar Flavor said, on May 15, 2011 at 8:38 pm

        sorry, that comment made more sense in my head before I posted it. That’s actually how it is in my regular verbal speaking life, too. I am confounded by how to post a photo in the regular comment thread and will try this out tomorrow. Time for a little easy 2nd grade homework and then off to bed. Good night Gentleman….? …and….(?)

  67. Flavor's avatar Flavor said, on May 15, 2011 at 8:33 pm

    7 innings of baseball this weekend. 7. S-E-V-E-N. And we skipped my daughter’s softball game (to her delight) so i didn’t even add any innings there. Ugh. Going through an unpleasant, shaky feeling of nausea that borders both addiction withdrawl and psychological dependence………

  68. Flavor's avatar Flavor said, on May 15, 2011 at 8:41 pm

    and god help this blog if I ever figure out how to post a picture into the regular comment threads (you’ll notice that I have mastered this skill in the main thread). I’m a photo-post-a-holic. Anything goes. Get your “scroll down” button handy, you’re gonna need it…….

  69. twinfan's avatar twinfan said, on May 15, 2011 at 8:42 pm

    I’m also to bed- night all.
    sleep

    • Flavor's avatar Flavor said, on May 15, 2011 at 8:48 pm

      mocking me. Goddamn you! Oh well. I’m out. Maybe PaulinASia keeps the blog going tonight…..

  70. DJLoo's avatar DJLoo said, on May 15, 2011 at 8:42 pm

    If you get stuck, I’m sure Katy can help you with it.

    • Flavor's avatar Flavor said, on May 15, 2011 at 8:45 pm

      I’m assuming you meant the HW but maybe I should check if she could do this pic-insert thing. Good call……

      • DJLoo's avatar DJLoo said, on May 15, 2011 at 8:46 pm

        Of course I meant the homework. Your grades are important!

  71. Flavor's avatar Flavor said, on May 15, 2011 at 8:46 pm

    and her fucking name is “Katie”, Loo. K-A-T-I-E. The whores whose skirts you look up at Mets games are named “Katy”. Please make a note of it……

  72. James's avatar James said, on May 15, 2011 at 8:52 pm

    “I see that the game will be made up as part of a day-night doubleheader on June 28, when the Giants begin another series there.” Already have tix for the night game. May need to trot out the tired Ernie Banks quote for Mrs. James.

  73. DJLoo's avatar DJLoo said, on May 15, 2011 at 9:03 pm

    How can anyone go to bed now? The Herculoids are about to take on the Amatons on Boomerang. Igoo would sure look good in black & orange…

  74. stixwiz's avatar stixwiz said, on May 15, 2011 at 9:22 pm

    Ready for bed here at 11:11 p.m CST. Just finished a fine, fine simple late dinner of steamed asparagus freshly plucked outta my north garden. Served em over thinnish chunks of American cheese and a few dabs of butter. Sprinkled a bit of salt, some garlic powder and a few drops of balsamico over the top. Scrumptious. First aspergrass of the year. Breakfast tomorrow will feature an omelette with second version of above along with bips of pre-fried bacon, some more cheese and maybe mushroom pieces and stems along with select fresh herbs such as sorrel from the garden.

    Prelude to a long day of spadework. Worst part about that is all the volunteer veggies and herbs such as rouge d’ hiver lettuce; parsnips, parsley; catnip; oregano and yes, you can eat those pretty little things (in all Frankness) violas (aka Johnny Jump-ups). Unless designated victims stop by and get gifted with take-homes, most of those lovelies will get spaded under. Can’t roto-till because of all the volunteers, some of which get transplanted elsewhere in the gardens. Good workout, though.

  75. unca chuck's avatar unca chuck said, on May 15, 2011 at 9:32 pm

    Bips?

    • DJLoo's avatar DJLoo said, on May 15, 2011 at 10:06 pm

      I have no idea what “bips” are Chuck, but I’ll betcha it’s not a typo…

    • snarkk's avatar snarkk said, on May 15, 2011 at 11:53 pm

      I didn’t know Bip Roberts was named after “pre-fried” bacon…


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