What the Fall Out will be From the “Row-ada” Exits…..
Probably not much. The bloggers will have 2 fewer targets to direct their venom. But there are still plenty to take aim at as Beltran will be finding out soon enough. He’s probably at the front of the line with Dirrrrrrty and Zito on the DL and Row-ada getting let go yesterday. Ross, Huff, Torres and Burrell did too much for us last year to ever end up taking on the bulk of the fans furor…..
How will the loss of those guys effect team chemistry? Not as much as consistently winning would have effected it. Everyone talks about this magically 2010 and how all the guys came together with a common goal, arm in arm, etc…But that happened for one reason: a bunch of guys, many of who were outcasts and unwanted by their previous teams, all came together to have career years (or months as in the case of Ross) and they were winning games consistently. THAT is what builds chemistry. And I’ll tell you something, almost everyone is good at winning. Winners come together pretty easily when they were all thought to be losers and they are proving everyone wrong by winning. Consistently.
Then the off season came. Who knows what went down. Lots of celebration and extended partying. Maybe some of them weren’t working out as hard. A few guys got some very nice, “take care of your family” contracts handed to them (deservedly so). A couple of guys got married and/or had kids. Their priorities might have changed a little as they had crossed off “winning the world series” off the list of things they wanted to do in their lifetime. Then 2011 starts with high expectations but the core guys all get injured and last year’s miracle guys all took 3 giant steps backwards at the exact same time. New guys get brought in at the break sending a message to the guys currently playing that management is moving on from the magic of the 2010 guys. Maybe a little animosity about those moves. More losses pile up. And the guys that are so good at handling winning might not be as good at handling losing. Presto: you now have some shady team chemistry.
So losing Row-ada was nice. I enjoyed both of those designations immensely. But I don’t think for a second that the current team chemistry is going to improve much. That will get better when one single thing happens: they start winning consistently. And could there be a better opportunity than a weekend of Sept games against your division arch rival (at least this year) as their strut into town carrying a nine game winning streak (along with some fabulous team chemistry)? We’re going to be trying to beat them without the magic of 2010. And they have found the same magic in 2011. It’s gonna be tough……..
Anyone can be good at winning. How you act when you win doesn’t impress me. It’s how you act when you lose that shows me your true character. Learning to lose with class and dignity is something you are either good at or you’re not. If you’re not, it’s very likely that your team starts turning on each other. I don’t think that’s happened in SF. But the good vibes from 2010, even for the guys who still here, have been washed away by a season of losses and injuries and a National Media that is now collectively writing “they are who we thought they were.” That’s a misguided notion considering all of the key injuries we’ve sustained. But it HAS to have an impact on the attitude the players take day in and day out. Again, this is where the bad chemistry comes from, not from 2 guys like Row-ada……
A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball 
Indeed. Those old enough to remember know the A’s of 1972-73-74 had brawls in the clubhouse. But won. Period.
I thought Burrell’s quote and actions yesterday were instructive. I don’t have the exact words, but something like, “This is a business, not a hobby. We get paid for winning. Something had to happen.” And yet, since his and Rowand’s close friendship goes back to their friendship as Phillies WS winners, they hugged goodbye. So I guess you can call that a combination of business and chemistry.
It’s a new day.
Roll it.
So the call ups, will Bochy go match ups. Or Is it Fontenot, or Crawford at SS. And is it going to be Torres, Beltran, Ross for the outfield? Rowand and Tejada are gone, lets look to the last month of the regular season. Can the Giants pull it together to win the division. Some sports writer for the SacBee made the comparison of the release of Rowanda and Tejada was like pouring cold water on the team and they then came out and performed the way they should have been.
Lincicum/Kennedy on saturday could be the key to this series. Having Cain, Timmy and the Songster going for the G’s is obviously ideal. You figure they have an excellent chance to win behind Matty, though he HAS to eliminate the early runs and the runs after the g’s have scored, both recent foibles. Song may be fading down the stretch as the workload starts to get to him. I don’t think he’s ‘reverting to form” as much as getting tuckered out. That makes the saturday matchup probably decisive in determining who is going to win the series. I like the fact that the d’s are coming in on a tear. it’s got to end sometime. a couple of runners on and an early jack by pat the bat will have the place going bonkers, and may just fire up the entire team. but then again, two pitchers duals with the g’s squeezing out two wins could also play hob with the d’s psych. They know how important this series is, even with their 6 game lead. A sweep and the g’s are in their head for the rest of the year. A series win for the d’s could just about put the cork in it for the g’s.
Don’t you just love the stretch drive?
Winning is the only chemistry that matters.
Bochy says he’ll use MDR more. I would. Whatever the numbers say or don’t say, this guy brings it, makes things happen. Use him. It’s critical. “The fire inside.”
am I contradicting myself on chemistry? whatever
nip at 8:34 is actually right…I always liked madden’s line, “winning is the great deodorant.”
Sure the clubhouse was rocking, bum dominated and they f-ing beat somebody and whacked two bombs.
Shut down the Dbax and it could happen again.
And I agree, losing two guys who weren’t going to play much anyway doesn’t really mean shit except to fans/bloggers who were way tired of both
. Pitching has to hold up, same old same old. They shut down the better hitting teams last year, and will have to do it again to win.
Losing seldom brings out the best in anyone.
I think that signing Rowand was a key move toward turning the franchise around after the Bonds era.
Remember, that late Bonds era clubhouse was not someplace any FA wanted to come to, plus the fact that ATT is perceived to be a hitter unfriendly park. At the beginning of the post-Bonds era, the Giants HAD to overpay for someone like Rowand. I also think that the Giants sticking with him for so long, giving him every opportunity to contribute (and then some) helps the Giants sign FAs in the future.
Whatever else you say about Rowand, he played hard, prepared himself, and was a team guy. Personally, I don’t think the Giants win the WS last year without the change that his signing brought to the clubhouse. I am not happy they had to DFA him, but since they did, all I can say is: Thank you and good luck in the future, Aaron Rowand.
Tejada gets no such thank you from me. He isn’t a bad guy, but my take on him is that he is just one of those guys who is focused on himself a little too much, and doesn’t get it about putting himself second to team success. I am glad to they cut ties with him.
Tejada had the one misstep and HE called a meeting to apologize. So while he was was a huge disappointment for his performance, as usual, the blogosphere is going overboard in vilifying him. I thought he should have been released over the jogging incident, but his apology and the content of it, changed my mind. That he and Rowand ( they have their own names) were released over performance, or lack thereof, is entirely appropriate. and in Aaron’s case, overdue. But as I said last night, and has always been the case, the players departed with more class than their detractors ever exhibited.
Will this change team chemistry? First: neither of these guys were clubhouse “cancers” to begin with, so in that regard.no. Also, neither had been important factors for quite some time, so it’s really not even a performance enhancement. Burrell and Pill won’t be taking time from them, but mostly from Belt and maybe Huff. So the upshoot is really more of a statement from the boss: no one is guaranteed a job here..
Briefly, two things:
1) willieD said, on September 1, 2011 at 9:02 am
“nip at 8:34 is actually right…” A date and time that will go down in infamy
2) Row-ada? Hmmm. I’m seeing a short shelf life.
Does Rwanda work for you?
Grin
Ross had a great postseason, he wasn’t a huge performer in the regular season. It’s yet to seen whether Dirty had a career year, Torres certainly seems to have, and MAYBE Uribe. That’s it. Panda’s down year completely offsets Torres, so the carreer year theory is down the Kohler..
I was thinking Huff had a career year as well but that’s not really true. I will say he exceeded expectations, though.
Very few voters on where we stand at the end of the AZ series. There’s a link on the right to vote. I have 3, attainable with a sweep. Flavor, Willie, and Ted have 4, they’re out ( unless there was a rain out.) Doomin’ Chucky has 7, if we lose two of three, he’s got it.
I really didn’t believe Arizona was going to have a 9 game win streak. Stupid math.
Hey, this was before the jettisoned Row-Row and Tejada.
That should buy me a 5 out . . .
And before you blow your gaskets, Mike. I’m kidding.
I never blow gaskets, Chuckaluck, you have a serious misunderstanding of my posting “demeanor”. I think you’re cute, dude…
Oh, come on now, pal. Offhand posts are routinely followed by one of your classic vitriol-filled diatribes.
Don’t go all disingenuous on us.
Well, the 2-3 run HRs started coming in bunches around Sept. 1 last year when the new guys (and DL returnees) all seemed to catch fire. And this is what is sorely lacking these days. They have ONE non-solo HR in 3 months? Some crazy shit like that? Oh, yeah. Pablo got one as well vs Houston. 2 in 3 months. Unreal.
I don’t expect Huff or Ross to go wild, but Jesus Christ, they have to get SOMETHING out of Beltran. He’s been one swing pop-out (or ground-out) in most of his ‘important’ ABs since he got here.
Team chemistry may not improve with the DFAing of these two. Maybe it will — Sabes took the action certainly with that squarely in mind, as well as clearing deadwood to open two spots. They could have DFA’d Cabrera and lost about the same performance, but it was Tejada with the ‘tude that got canned. And, Squatty was a problem in the clubhouse — read the beat reporters’ reportage. He may have been classy on the way out the door, but he wasn’t in his complaints behind closed doors. Don’t forget the ridiculous centerfield or else hissy in spring training — I said then he was doing it get management to move him. And, the the last straw for BowTie was probably the Chicago newspaper dissing of SF — which Squatty then proceeded to fib on radio about how it was all context, not intent. Yeah, classy. When the WS champs reunion meets in 2020, maybe he’ll be there, maybe he won’t show — the vast majority of SF fans won’t miss him if he decides to beg off and attend a critical Chicago Bears preseason tilt..
I said both were classy ‘compared to their detractors’
A lot of blah blah blah in Baggarly’s take but even he finally concludes that any kvetching was just “two guys who wanted to play ball”…
So the “career year” hokum is really just saying that they won the WS because some guys had good years… shocking.
Uh huh
Well, maybe Torres had a career year. Hard to say with so much time on the DL this year.
Yeah, I did list him as one who probably did. But 2 or 3 guys having career years is hardly unusual on a championship team.
Standing up for Tejada and Squatty is utter nonsense. They were deadwood, and complainers to boot. Tejada showed up management. His piss poor performance offered no protection from getting sacked as a consequence. Rightly so. Squatty’s ‘tude in the clubhouse now revealed away from the glare of the 400 swings per day Krukspotlight finally got management’s goat, capping with his stunningly bad on-field performance. He ended his Giants career at a 1 for 23 clip. You don’t sack a guy to whom you still owe $13+ million because “he just wanted to play ball”. He might have wanted to play ball, but he made it clear not for the Giants — so they accommodated him. Now let’s win some games…
.
I said:
“That he and Rowand ( they have their own names) were released over performance, or lack thereof, is entirely appropriate. and in Aaron’s case, overdue.”
I’m just not Snarkklefucking them.
“You don’t sack a guy to whom you still owe $13+ million because “he just wanted to play ball”.
You cherry pick Baggarly, that was his conclusion.
“Yes, the Giants are better off having made these moves. Privately, I have to believe they are wishing they pulled these triggers several weeks ago.
But when you get down to it, these were just two guys who wanted to play ball. Maybe they’ll have a chance to do that somewhere else.”
Everyone can read Baggs blog. They can make up their own minds on Gamer and what they can read themselves. Here’s a few lines:
“Rowand wasn’t happy, and he didn’t just wear down the coaching staff. His constant complaints about his reserve role wore on teammates, too.”
“But by now, it’s obvious that jettisoning Rowand and Tejada had a lot to do with getting rid of negative vibes — almost as much as their declining production.”
Sabes jettisoned ’em with plenty left to be paid on their deals, especially Gamer — that’s the ultimate detraction. They’re gone, it was right and proper, and probably too late. It’s a total waste of time to argue about the post mortems. You go ahead, though, as usual.
Next…
And the conclusion from Baggarly:
“Yes, the Giants are better off having made these moves. Privately, I have to believe they are wishing they pulled these triggers several weeks ago.
But when you get down to it, these were just two guys who wanted to play ball. Maybe they’ll have a chance to do that somewhere else.”
And I already, properly, concluded that the moves were appropriate.
What Snarkkles calls “standing up for’, is code for “no character assasination”..
Fox Sports 38ish looking MLB commentator Jon Paul Morosi claims that the Giants dynasty is over. He does admit that SF would probably be in first place if Posey and Sanchez had been around all season, but then goes on to aver that the Snakes will have a better pitching staff by 2013 as he expects departures from Cain, Vogelsong and Sanchez via Free Agency and posits that Arizona’s starter talent in their minor league pipeline will pretty much sweep the field in a couple years.
Counting on promising young pitchers is something the Giants know a thing or two about. Some of the hopefuls from the past two-three years are currently struggling in the pipelines of other systems right now. It is easy to jump on a bandwagon and pronounce a winner, but when some pundit who probably never even played college ball and is still likely on the sunny side of 40 makes projections a couple years into the future; my surmise is that he is mostly blowing smoke. He touts Kirk Gibson for Manager of the Year. If the Snakes do win the division, Gibson’s managerial skills would not be the key factor in their rise. He may not be at all a bad manager, though a young and hungry team has made him look pretty astute.
Shit, this is the usual attention deficit theatre bullshit these ‘sports’ guys spout to sound knowlegeable. Before last season, one of the wonks at ESPN breathlessly declared Tony Romo the greatest QB in Dallas history.
Hmmmm. I can name 4 offhand who are better. Fricking Danny (twinkie defense) White had more success than Romo. As did Morton, Staubach, and Aikman.
Does Cain live in AZ?
I’m not sure but during the season he lives in Noe Valley in the City. My Chinese dad runs into him every once in a while.
Kind of interesting that Burrell, frequently cited as a clubhouse cancer before he came here, is now touted as one of the leaders in the clubhouse. And he was said to have complained about his reduced role earlier this year. Fact is, Tejada and Rowand were released over non-performance, they could bitch like a Snarkkle and they’d still be here if they’d contributed more. Burrell is back only because of the hope that’ll rediscover his magic from last year. Bitching for more playing time doesn’t get anybody released- poor performance does.
What is also weird is Huff had something of a “clubhouse cancer” rep when the Giants signed him as well. At least that’s what the local media said. Everything I’ve seen is to the complete contrary but I have to admit, I paid little if any attention to him before he was signed by SF. And if I recall properly, Huff addressed it himself and said the rep was due to frustration on always being on a losing team. I’m not sure if that’s a justification for being an asshole, if he really was, but it’s an understandable repercussion.
Baggarly recently posted that Huff has been an “absolute ghost” after losses this season, and as we all know, he was a regular Chatty Cathy last year.And aren’t he and Pat the revelers in a constant stream of rumor about drunken debauchery? They’re here despite dreadful perfoprmance and questionable off field behavior only because there’s still hope that they can contribute. . no such hope was there for Rowand and Tejada- that’s why they’re gone.
“Drunken debauchery”…… our Giants?
I think the last time Burrell homered I was handicapping the Kentucky Derby…
Well, for the most part, winning breeds camraderie. Losing breeds aloofness.
If I was Keppie, say, and Huff was clowining around after yet another loss, I’m not sure I’d feel all that good about a guy who has way underperformed all year screwing around in the clubhouse. So, if they go elswhere and get trashed, fine. Who’s to know? It’s like everyone on the team is walking on eggshells, anyway. Timmy’s frustration comments I’m sure were taken to heart by the hitters, as he rarely shows any kind of emotion, on the mound or in the clubhouse, in a negative way anyway.
Maybe this is the kick they need. Something to build on. I don;t know. They CAN sweep the Snakes. But they HAVE to score early and put the Snakes on their proverbial (If nonexistent) heels.
camaraderie
cameraderie
Uh, nvrmnd . . .
scales? Rattle?
LQTM . . .
ESPN gives us a 4.7% chance of making the playoffs. (Really.) That right there gives me all the reason to go all counterintuitive and be more hopeful. We were all Rodney Dangerfielded last year, so bring it on. It would be thrilling to see those percentages climb every day this weekend. If not, no regrets from this fan. This will always be a basking year in my memory. Now we just have to see if it ends up sweet or bittersweet.
“Jon Paul Morosi claims that the Giants dynasty is over.”
A “dynasty” is now defined as one year? Who knew? Nevertheless, still basking . . .
I thought the same thing. Who knew we were living in a dynasty? If not Ming, maybe Ping? Anyway, morose Morosi can wait and see.
Or the Pong era
Ome on guys. Everyone knows this is the Bong era . . .
That 4.7% figure is every bit as ridiculous as the 97% figure of a few weeks ago.
Here’s a reasonable mathematical scenario that would end in a tie after 162:
Take 4 of 6 from AZ head to head.
In the remaining 19, SF goes 12-7 while AZ goes 8-11.
Math problems? Call 1-800-[(10x)(13i)2]-[sin(xy)/2.362x].
I always loved the ad for learning how to read.
Just call ABC-DEFG
Did you call it?
now THAT is funny x 2
If they win, it would simply be part of the 3% of the time AZ would take the West were the season played a thousand times.
If I’m Barry Zito, this doesn’t sound to encouraging . . . Sabean said Zito was not part of this week’s conversation, suggesting the pitcher’s future will be decided later. Asked if Zito still remains part of the mix for next year, Sabean said, “I have no idea.”
*too
When do they announce the call-ups?
Dillon? Kevin or Matt? I know Johnny Drama is the flavor of the month, but I’ll stick with Matt.
“Let’s do it for Johnny, man. We’ll do it for Johnny!”
A classic quote, dennis, but Johnny Drama’s got a few winners as well:
“If you can’t get laid here, turn your dick in”
Probably tomorrow morning.
I’m expecting very little from Burrell. For starters, he’ll probably only get 3 at bats a game. What kind of defense will this dude be playing when he comes back? His foot his still a little fucked up. I’d like to see him more as a PH but it looks like he’s gonna get a chance out there. Oh well, it’s not like Belt earned the job. He was borderline bad. DeRosa to take at bats away from Huff? Hmmmm. I guess. He’s been producing a little when he’s been out there. Probably no Pill and that’s fine with me. I’d rather see DeRosa than Pill at first base….
The People’s Socialist Republic of Baseball: “Frank McCourt has reportedly been offered $1.2 billion for the Los Angeles Dodgers in a bid that would get funding from Chinese government-owned investment banks.
“The Los Angeles Times (http://lat.ms/r9r0Gg) reported Thursday that it has learned the contents of a letter to McCourt about the bid that’s being headed by Los Angeles Marathon founder Bill Burke.
“The bid terms call for an all-cash payment to buy the Dodgers, all real estate related to the team and the team’s media rights.
“It says the money would come from ‘certain state-owned investment institutions of the People’s Republic of China’ as well as unidentified American investors.”
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2011/09/01/sports/s161742D47.DTL
If McCourt is smart, he should grab it. The average MLB franchise is now worth $523 million, an all-time high and 7% more than last year. Example – NY Yankees are worth $1.7 billion. However, if you take their Yes network and Legends Hospitality Management, the worth goes up to $5.1 billion. In the NL, the Phils are worth $609 million.
By the by, the Giants are worth $563 million per Forbes and the Dodgers were estimated to be worth $800 million (despite McCourt running the franchise into the ground).
But the penalty for stealing 2B would be working 7 years on a farm collective.
ouch
I think the Giants are worth north of that number. Like to see Forbes’ cap rate and what income stream they’re using. First variable probably too high given current econ conditions, second one probably too low. The ATT property, plant and equipment is probably alone worth north of $300M, before even counting the business and trademarks…
I would take this as fiction, but I think the year is 2011. global economy.
I knew it! That thing with Che — you know, down in Bolivia — nnnnnever happened. He’s been holed up in a seedy North La Brea motel biding his time, waiting for the right catalytic event. We’re doomed — doomed! Who knew it would be — the Dodgers?!
I thought the theory was, if we let the Communists own 1 team, soon they’ll own 2, and then 4…
“Those little yellow reds!” – Maj. Frank Burns
talk about stimulants! I mean, stimulus!
This is just gonna play hell with stats — you know, the key element in baseball. “Up to bat, Andre Ethier, with 56 打点 on the year, batting .297 and 109 人力资源 with runners on base.”
Chuck, I know Chuck knows 49ers (like Bo knows just about everything) . . . Anywho, across the bay is this kid named Taiwan Jones and I’ve heard good things about him. Any chance of him being more than a spot player behind Bush and McFadden? Inquiring minds want to know (especially those with a football fantasy team).
Blade, Jones is a local kid as he played his HS ball in Antioch. He was a terror in college at E. Wash but his competition was sketchy and he played on a red football field at home. He ran a super fast 40 time at his Pro Day at the local JC in Martinez. That was good enough for Old Man Al to use a 4th rd pick (way too early IMHO) on TJ. He’s looked good this preseason, but it’s only preseason.
But to answer your question, yes, he’s a “deep sleeper” behind McFadden. In fact, I’d rather have him behind him than Bush as the Raider #2. But McFadden is your guy… I hate Raider players, but I think McFadden is in store for a very good year. Baring an injury that I’ll be doing an Indian Rain dance in hopes for…:D
Thanks Dennis. We had our draft the other night and I didn’t select him, nor did anyone else. However, he’s available and I’m thinking about dropping my number two tight end, Brandon Pettigrew (Winslow is 1 on my team) and picking up Jones. Right now, I have Rashard Mendenhall, Jonathan Stewart, and Ryan Torain as my running backs and I’m not too confident in the latter two.
What do you think Dennis?
I would go with one TE and on the bye week or if Winslow is injured, I can get one off the waiver wire . . . in my mind, they have minimal FL point value.
Well, you have a chance to draft your favorite guys again…I have one spot open in my ESPN league. We could use a guy with your determination (no quitting) and fervor for the fantasy game. It’s just a bunch of us 49ers fans (Chuck’s playing) trying our luck at the fantasy football game. Give me an e-mail if ya wanna play so I can send ya an invite…
dunkirkwantsrevenge@comcast.net
Blade, I think Pettigrew and Winslow are a wash. In fact, if I had my my druthers, I’d take Pettigrew over Winslow this year. As for your RBs, I like Mendenhall, but I’d try and upgrade the other two if ya can. Stewart is in that big timeshare w/ D. Williams who just received that bit $$$ contract. You know they’re gonna try and make him earn it. Torain?Sorry, I think Tim Hightower is the RB to have for the ‘Skins. Hell, even their rookie, Helu might make a better option as a RB2 for Washington.
I have a super-duper sleeper RB, but that would cost you and everyone some coin. 😛
Well, when you draft last – you get stiffs like Stewart and Torain. Yeah, I was hoping that Williams would say sayonara and Stewart would be the default RB. Torain has talent, but is INJURY PRONE, thus Shanahan getting Hightower and Helu . . . in short, he doesn’t trust Torain. No way to upgrade either, unless I can bamboozle someone in a trade (not likely, no Flappers are participating . . . HEY, I’M JUST KIDDING 🙂 )
Hmm, interesting about your opinion of Pettigrew and Winslow – not certain I agree, but I will take it under advisement. However, in answer to my question, would you shit can Pettigrew (Winslow) for the Oakland kid, Jones? I’m thinking that if Bush or McFadden get injured, this kid is in like Flynn.
Hunter?
Surkamp’s minor league start tonight: 6IP 0ER 4H (all singles) 5K, on 70 pitches (46 strikes). Anxious to see him back up here.