Taking a Gander at our 5th Outfield Spot
So we know that Pagan, Melk and Nate are going to be our starting outfield. I hope that’s a fluid thing, if Belt has a monster spring and Nate just kinda pushes the ball around I see Belt as a far more productive *starting* player. Nate is a secret weapon off the bench. I don’t see why the Giants keep trying to force him into the starting LU. Anyway……
I’m taking Huff out of the discussion for the outfield because I just don’t think that at this point in his career he should be playing anything other than first base. Bochy probably sees this differently but he’s not writing this blog post so….Huff’s not an outfielder. There. It’s been said……..
Peguero and Kieschnick are the two home grown guys. I put very little value on what players do BEFORE they get to AA. Any A-league is really made up mostly of pitchers who have one pitch, usually that’s a fastball, and the hitters down there just sit on it. AA and AAA is where you start to see the ball bend and that’s where you find out what kind of a hitter you’ve got.
Peg’s and Keesh are 23 and 25, respectively. Peg’s has been in the org since 2006 and just hasn’t been able to take the next steps necessary to make it out of *prospect zone*. They finally moved him up to AA last year and he had a very nice year.
Here’s what he did in 2011 between San Jo and Richmond (I’m assuming you can figure out what these numbers are):
Keesh is probably considered a lesser prospect. He’s older and at 25 he needs to get it going in a hurry. He did ok at SJ in 2009 but he’s been kinda spinning his wheels in Richmond the last 2 years:
I don’t believe that either of these 2 guys have a shot at the #5 OF spot this year. Possibly Peguero…….
That leaves 2 other guys, Tyler Graham (who’s actually on the 40 man roster) and Gregor Blanco, Bunter Extraordinaire. Tyler is homegrown out of the 2006 draft. He is freakin’ f-a-s-t. At least, from a stolen base standpoint. 2010 was his *monster* year and last year he stole 60. That’s an inflated number because of Decker’s directive to run seemingly every time a player got on base. But you’ve still got to be fast to steal 60.
Blanco is interesting. He’s fiddled around in the minors since 2002 but he did play for Atlanta and KC for parts of 2008 and 2010. Here are his major league stats:
Last season he hit, impossibly, .201 in the the minors. At 28. that does not exactly put you on the fast track back to the major leagues. BUt a weird year like that hints at a possible injury he was playing through. Career minor leaguers who are on the wrong side of their 20’s don’t have the luxury of relaxing in the training room and healing whatever ails them.
And who could forget his magical 2010 when he led the major leagues with a .706 batting average? Ok, that was his bunting average, but he still led the entire league in something. That counts right? Plus, he’s got Bozo the Clown in his corner and I KNOW that counts for something…..
Assuming Belt takes over the starting OF spot and Nate goes back to his rightful seat on the bench, who do you think our 5th OF is going to be?
A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball 
I still say it is Burriss…
Well, it ainlt Christian. He dropped the easiest fly ball I’ve ever seen a pro drop.
It’s a landslide for Igor, uh Gregor . . .
Yeah, it’s not that Huff can’t play the OF, I just don’t want the team to be forced into playing him there.
The absolute best case scenario has Huff in LF, Belt at first. Aubrey’s offensive upside is still miles better than Nate’s.
Well, I’d just flip/flop Huff and Belty.
If burrell can play LF, then Huff could too. All this talk about speed in the OF is great…a bigger ? is if any of them can actually hit well enough to deserve to play regularly. If Huff and Belt both can, they gotta be in there, and bochy can use one of the rest for late inning D. Surprised no mention of Burriss as 5th OF—he’s destined to be poor man’s J. Hairston, who can play anywhere, runs well, just not much of a hitter.
Honestly tho, if we are talking about Sf 5th OF (who has to be strictly end of the bench guy), it must be ST. I’m more worried about what the first second and third guys do…and not in ST.
If they were considering any of these, I’d go with Roger because he’s RH and has power. They acquired speed in Pagan and Cab, so it’s not as glaring a need as it was last yr.
ST……Keesh is a LH hitter.
With Boch no way he goes with any.one other then Cart Blanco.He loves Vets.I like Graham alot,but he won’t make the team.
I’ll be damn…scratch my vote.
Some of you may have missed my man Blanco getting a couple of SB last night, but to recap, he got on base twice, stole second twice and scored twice. By the way he has been officially adopted by the Clown tribe. His new tribal name is Bingo Blanco.
I think how Belt does is the key to the final roster spots. I imagine they are hoping for Pill to stick so they have a RHer off the bench, Burriss I would think is a long shot with the two Ragin’ Cajuns and if Belt doesn’t win an everyday starting position they may keep him in Fresno (I’d rather see him in SF). Should be a fun spring.
Also, good game by Ishi. I hope the kid gets the 1B job for the Brewers. I think he would hit well at Miller on Draft park.
Chuck loved Ishi!
Pagan just said on knbr that he worked out 3X a day in off season and he’s gonna steal 50 this year. Me Likey.
I think Huff will be the LFer and Belt the first baseman. Nate will be the 4th OFer and Pill the 5th. If Pill proves that he’s what should already be known-a AAAA player, he’ll be waived soon and Blanco will probably get the call. Peguero and Kieschnick are not in the picture at this time.
Again, and maybe it will sink in this time- the team plans on Huff, Belt, and Pill to take care of the reserve OF positions. There will not be Burriss, Blanco, Graham, or anybody else unless one of the Huffington Gang goes away. Or the Nate gets traded. The most likely scenario has Pill and Blanco battling for the last spot but Graham and Manny are in the picture. It’s a question of what’s more valuable late in the game- speed and defense ( defense probably rules out Burriss) or a potential power bat. I can most easily see Nate and Blanco taking over in the late innings-Nate to right, Melky to left, Blanco to CF…
Huff did not have problems in LF, it was in RF that he had his difficulties.
Of course if Pill goes, they are completely bereft of power OTB from the R side. Think they would have to find someone to fill that role. Blanco is also a lefty, in a very lefty OF if you count Belt Huff. Remember reading something about the G’s not being interested in Damon or Matsui becuse they felt they were already tooo L-H.
It’s hardly certain that Pill gives them that power. But whatever, it doesn’t change the fact that for any of the speed OF reserves to make the team, one of the Huffington guys will have to go. Over the course of 162 games, a speedy defender is more valuable anyway, IMO. But I suspect that Pill will get his shot.
I think back to the tremendous lift Burrell and Uribe gave them in 2010 with their big hr’s off the bench. Even Rowand occasionally. And Edgar with the biggest of all. They didn’t get that last yr even though they had guys like Rowand Ross Burrrell and Tejada with RH power.
Now they have Theriot and a kid with 60 ML ab’s.
Burrell had 1 HR off the bench ( 1 for 7), Uribe had zero off the bench, Edgar zero HR off the bench, Rowand had 2 in 22 AB. The key bench players from either side were Ishi and Nate.
That’s what I just said. They lacked the power from the R’s.
Those are the 2010 numbers. Your memory is faulty.
It does sound like your 2010 was even better than the one the rest of us saw. Do you have any of it on video?
😉
Ok. So you’re comfortable leaving it up to Nate. Cool.
I agree with twin. If Belt makes the team (I’m don’t think that’s a given yet) Huff would be in LF and Nate on the Bench. If Pill isn’t the second coming of OrtRod, they would have to keep him for some kinda power off the bench.
I don’t know if it’s because of the tornados or not, but man my internet connection has sucked since last Friday. I’ve been having to post my stupid crap 2 or 3 times for each post. Shows what an idiot I am.
As I showed, the team got very little from the RH bench in the WS year. Too big a deal is being made of the alleged need for a RH power bat.
ST is still not getting it- they had poor numbers from the RH bench in 2010, the year they won the WS. It is his imagination that Uribe, Burrell, and Edgar had all these big HRs off the bench. Pat had one, Rowand two, Ross zero, Juan zero, Edgar zero, Guillen zero…
The numbers are from Baseball Reference.. but listen, ST, as Joe E. Brown said, “Nobody’s perfect”. I had the wrong guy hitting a walk off for the Pirates- and I was wrong for 20 years. I even forget who I said it was now, the real hero was Bob Skinner. He’s LHed and he’s also 80 years old, I doubt he’s the guy for this year…
And I thought it was Bill Mazeroski all these years . . .
(wink wink all that crap)
I’m a man !!
If Belt makes the team, it’s more likely he’s going to make it as a utility OFer, and occasional 1bman and PHer. Unless Huff slaps Bochy with a used thong, he will start the season at first base, and would have to slowly sink in the West — maybe through May, for Belt to take over first. Huff will be far more of a defensive dsaster waiting to happen in the OF than Belt. Unless he just tears it up in ST, I’d be in favor of Belt starting in Fresno and getting regular ABs until/unless Huff craters, then bring up Belt in mid-season to stay…
If Nate craters, Belt certainly could get to the OF that way. Don’t want to see the re-emergence of the water buffaloes . . .
It’s more likely that Belt will be the starting first baseman and Huff LF- which has been his best position defensively. If Belt and Huff both hit this sprng, both will stsrt…IMO…
I think it’s possible as well, just with Huff at 1st . . . IMRO
They need Pill as a backup off the bench/PH’/ spot start.This guy has the extra power they need.Hit a Bomb today.along with Belt.Play these guys!
Pill will probably get his chance. But whether he’s needed more than a guy like Blanco is hardly a given. I think Brett will be renting…
Supposely Carte Blanco can play all 3 OF spots,that could be your 4th OF remedy as well.Though I hope not at the expense of Pill.Tough calls still ahead.Burris is gone.for sure book it.
So after Zito’s first spring outing, he has an ERA of 9 and a WHIP of 2.50.
How does he get in mid-season form so quickly?
I don’t know but there’s something to admire about consistency.
Two solo bombs for Melky today. Both leading off the inning. That’s one way to manufacture a run.
So whose Cactus League numbers are we taking seriously and which mean nothing?
It’s not clear to me what an “off the bench” statistic means. If a guy doesn’t start for a few games, and then starts and hits a homerun, that is not considered an “off the bench” homerun? It has to be a homerun that was hit by a guy who didn’t start in that particular game? It doesn’t seem like a totally worthwhile statistic.
A pinch hitter . . .
Lies, damn lies, and statistics?
If you are hitting a lot of home runs off the bench, you work your way into the lineup . . . or the job falls to you. Like it did for Burrell.
The thing is, the guys Twin points out (Uribe, Rowand, Rent) were nominally starters. They weren’t on the bench a long enough time to be hitting HRs from the bench.
Or they were on the DL . . .
Burrell hit ONE HR as a non-starter in 2010. And what I pointed out was that ST misremembered- He thought Uribe, Burrell, and Edgar hit numerous PH home runs, they did not. Burrell had one, Rowand 2. Uribe and Renteria had zero.
If the guy starts, it is not an “off the bench” HR. I have no idea why that is a difficult concept. And I don’t think an “off the bench HR” is an official stat anyway. A PH HR is.
The significant point is that there is hardly a necessity for a RH power hitter “off the bench”. They didn’t have one in 2010 and things worked out just fine.If Pill can provide that, cool… if not, their season is not toast.
well, the only mild argument was that they already had power in the LU in 2010. With it absent last year it would be nice to have some of it SOMEWHERE especially if it’s on the bench later in a game. Who wouldn’t want to have a guy with a big bat to come in and win a game with a walk off?
I’d hardly bitch if Pill can do it…and I’d hardly bitch if Blanco or Graham can give them speed and defense “off the bench”… the pernt is that is one or the other as things stand now.
Just saw some info on Zito’s outing. 2 runs, 4 hits in two frames. Not horrendous. Fastball only hit 82, but they are saying the gun was “slow”, at last per Baggarly tweets. OK, whatever. Melky looks like the real deal 1/2 a week into the ST schedule. He’s in a contract year, so that’s obviously an incentive. Looks like Giants definitely will score more this year — can they get to the magic 4 rpg?…
Zits did throw 26 strikes out of 35 pitches though Snarkk.so atleast his control is good.If he can get first pitch strikes.with his curve,his 82 FB might work some if he can spot it some.
Shit, theyd better start juicing the guns . . .
Anyone taking the Cactus League numbers seriously is in big trouble. There ain’t no “real deal” 1/2 week in. How much history do you need?
And OMG- Zito support.
No, that 82 MPH fastball will not cut it. Guys’ll just wait and make him come in. Like they always have.
2010 Cactus leaders were Darren Ford, Bowker, and Aaron Rowand. Last year it was Buster, Huff, and Whiteside.
Reality bites. thx for a dose of sanity in ST.
That 5th spot looks to suck so much that a guy like Yourkin probably got in the picture with just 3 decent innings. And no, those numbers shouldn’t mean much either, but when we’re hearing of 82 MPH and a slow gun, we’re in dire straights.
Zito’s tale of the tape will come in his last two ST outings, when the oppo rosters are firming up, and all their minor league hitters are down in minor league camp. 82 mph even assuming a faulty gun is not good, regardless of whether he’s got his curve working. If he can’t whip that new windup into some 88 or 89 mph fastballs once in a while, he’s not going to be giving 5 frame starts; more like 2 or 3…
I didn’t see the start but it’s obvious what he needs: more crouching! He just didn’t get his crouch on today, no biggie, go crouch it out a little harder next start…. 🙂 🙂 🙂
The only Spring Training numbers I care about are the good ones put up by the guys who suck. I’m rooting AGAINST this happening.
Zito having a good Spring will only delay the inevitable of needing to replace him shortly into the season.
The other guy who I don’t want to see have a monster Spring is Nate but for different reasons. As I’ve said many times, I think Nate is better coming off the bench and if Nate has an average/poor spring and Belt hits lights out I have fooled myself into believing that Belt might actually take the job from Nate.
Also, Whitey or Stewey have big springs would be bad for our team when considering the upcoming season. The best thing for the C situation is for both to hit like shit and Hector to crush it thereby forcing Bochy to make the *hard* decision to let Whitey ride off into the sunset. He can text him or call him if he misses him. He could always take him fishing in the off season, too……..
BF thinking……
I’m glad Twin posted the Cactus League leaders from 2010–11. I put zero stock, and always have, in what a guy does in ST. It’s just a time to get get your timing down as a hitter and to stretch your arm out as a starter. Also, don’t get hurt.
Taking a look at the youngsters is a bonus but no player should win a starting job in ST just because he hits .440 against AAA pitching and hungover vets.
Hungover vets…? Our Giants?
I don’t take squat in ST perfomers.Perfect example…Randy Elliot back in 77.That dude was raking every pitch all spring ,hitting HR’s,triples,doubles ,waiting for Robert Duvall to call him the next Roy Hobbs.Hit over .750 that spring for the Giants.
Of course never found the magic when the regular season started,and was out of baseball the next year.
Poor Randy. Hundreds of Spring Phenoms have come and gone since his year, but he’s always the guy held up to the ridicule. At least he got himself that cup of coffee…
“I don’t take squat in ST perfomers..” except Pill, it seems. Looking at Elliott’s year after his big ST, I doubt that Brett equals his numbers.
Twin..Difference between Pill and Elliot though is the 1,000 or so ab’s Pill has had in the minors.He is much more a finished product.Even has a edge on Belt in that respect.
Twin..Difference between Pill and Elliot though is the 1,000 or so ab’s Pill has had in the minors.He is much more a finished product.Even has a edge on Belt in that respect just not the hype.His last month up here last year showed me he has a solid approach batting and is not over matched.But we will see how it all shakes out.But im pulling for him,he’s, paid his dues.
As most of us would agree, Bruce Jenkins is a fantastic sports writer. And while I don’t think Freddy’s season has that much to do with OUR overall success, this is still a paragraph that perfectly captures the essence of spring training…..
“Set against the backdrop of a tree-laden neighborhood in gorgeous, late-afternoon light, Buster Posey and Freddy Sanchez went through their paces on a back field at Scottsdale Stadium before the game. Manager Bruce Bochy, hands on hips, was a most interested observer. There wasn’t much to see, just two guys running 50-yard semi-sprints in a wide arc, but this was no ordinary scene. It was the season.”
Love it.
Pet peeve about the Merc:
They have all sorts of links on their main sports page but when you click on them they are often barely more than a tweet—like a paragraph at most and they say nothing more than the headline says…..
The Chron doesn’t do this.
I don’t subscribe to print-paper media anymore except the New York Times—haven’t since I cancelled my subscription to the Chron after they hatchet-jobbed Barry with 11 out of 13 letters to the editor that were negative (it was something like that, I can’t remember the exact pro/con ratio).
But the con job the Merc does with these purported *articles* is bullshit……
Mark it down: Belt will lead the team in homers. Hope it’s over 20…
Could be Mr. Loo but I don’t think he’s the favorite. I think Panda hits 25 or so. At least. If Belt played the entire year I think he could hit 20, but I think Huff is gonna get the 1-bag job and fiddle around with that for a while.
Posey? I just don’t see a really strong year–this is *ease back in* year. And it could easily be much darker and worse than that.
Coming back from this type of injury isn’t just a physical thing, it’s mental too. Imagine the impact your ankle gets as a major league catcher. You’re up and down 170 times or so a game, you run the bases, you are part of collisions…..
I just don’t think Buster is good to go in 2012. I’d certainly never draft him in the absurd rounds he’s going in. 5? 6? Fuck that…..
So what do you have Pablo for?
I think Pablo, Belt, and Huff all go over 20.
my *Nate to the Bench* dream will have to come through for this to come through. I hope it does, and if it does I could see this happening, not a huge surprise at all………
Pablo & Belt will wage a season long Maris/Mantle type duel for the Giants home run lead.
Jenkins is the best and a big part of it that he’s not afraid, as he puts it, to be “dead wrong in public”…I used to have a frequent E-Mail correspondence with him, we spoke more of our fathers than each other. Enjoyed it very much…
Wish I could feel good about Huff. Just looked so washed up in ’11.
His lower body is in much better shape. His legs are locked in right now…….
His 2009 wasn’t much different from his 2011.
Well, I thought I’d be posting a lot less now. Sorry about that. GNight.
Here’s a list of players that could sink or swim right now and I’d be completely fine with the sinking part (as well as the swimming part) as long as they don’t take too long to sink:
1) Zito
2) Huff
3) Freddy
4) Nate
5) Crawford
6) G–Blanc
Now, the first 5 sinking all at once would cause some major problems. I just don’t think any ONE of them is critical to our success in 2012.
Blanco sinking would only bother me because of what it would do to the clown. I’m a bigger fan of Bozo than Bozo is of Blanco so I can’t support a Blanco melt-down failure because of what it would do to a Flap vet, not what it would do to the team. 🙂
“It’s where you call the bar, or the bar calls you…” Still one of my favorite lines of all time…….
Sorry about the BB today, by the way. That was out of line……
Never apologize about the BBOTD. They’re all winners!
Well, the comments are all winners. The babes are flowing on a weird continuum that doesn’t seem to have a starting point, an ending or a purpose….
I still fucking love that page……..
Yeah, Craig, obviously if all or most of them tank, that’s trouble, but that’s likely not going to happen. Agree that Zito, Nate, and Crawford could tank and the team would probably be ok, but I think they need Huff and Freddy to be strong… Huff for his power (and he seems like “he’s back…..”), and Freddy because if the middle infield ends up having to be Font and Theriot… ugh. So I agree with Jenkins about Freddy being a key, just for that reason alone.
Huff is replaceable by Belt and Freddy is a taped up shell of his former self. People need to stop thinking about Freddy in terms of who they *remember*. He’s an unexpected cough away from another trip to the DL. What Theriot would give you wouldn’t be that much less than a semi-healthy 2012 Freddy. Plus, he’ll play better D and steal you a bag now and again, something Freddy can’t do since he can’t run or throw anymore. He’s a side note to this season……
I guess we shall see….
Don’t underestimate the potential impact Pagan could have at the top of the order.
I don’t, I think he’s going to have a huge year.
Agree, Pagan and Melky both, MUST be impact players, and I believe they will be the keys to starting the engine…
After his stellar outing today, Barry Zito met with the press and made one of his most manly/macho statements ever. A true sign that he’s going to turn his career around:
“To paraphrase Rowdy Piper, I’m coming into this season to chew bubblegum or kick ass!! In that order!! And I’m all outta….Hey! Where did all those Bazooka Joes come from?”
Then he turned left, crouched in the direction of Andrew Baggerley and tried to leap frog him, unsuccessfully, in a failed attempt to mount his unicorn. I’m telling you, it’s going to be a weirdass year……….
hahaha
If anything, maybe Zitty’s getting married will slow his pimp roll through every baseball town in the league.
Maybe his lack of success has to do with the draining of his essence and his precious bodily fluids.
Great scene from a great movie, chuck.
What the fuck it had to do with out little tete-de-tete I got no fucking idea.
But thanks—-
“Gentlemen!!! You can’t fight here!!! This the WAR ROOM!!!!”
It was my take on Zitty’s struggles. See the words above the nice picture . . .
And leave your tits out of it . . .
I beg your pardon
And let me say this for the one thousanthdth of the time:
IT DON’T FUCKING MATTER WHO THE FUCK BATS 3R’D OR 4’TH OR FUCKING SEVENTH IN THE LINEUP AFTER THE FIRST FUCKING INNNING!!!!
DAMN, PEOPLE!!!!
Wake up
Can I get an Amen
No.
So this is that blog you’re always talking about eh, teddy? Missed you at the Stud the other night.
A midnight hookup on the Flap? Has to be a first.
Flight got in late from Panama (via Miami), but still had time to review the Flap at 1:50am. LQTM.
I just reviewed the blog’s last couple of days and I have 3 comments (all unrelated to baseball) . . . Big props to Snarkk for the Sean Connery Award Ceremony video clip. Probably my favorite actor of all time (along with Wayne and Eastwood) and especially all time favorite Bond (new guy Craig rocks too). Like Snarkk said, Connery still is impressive at 79.
Second comment is in regard to Kat’s comment regarding Ronnie Montrose – Saw him at Winterland and am sad to hear he passed away . . . sigh.
Last comment is in regard to Mike’s POTD . . . The power of prayer is unbelievable – and as Twin well knows (old lady told me this years ago), “God Moves Mountains, But You Have To Bring A Shovel.” Keep fighting Twin, God is right beside you shoveling too!
Nice post, Blade, welcome back. Sounds like you had a great and interesting trip. Ah, travel….
Thanks Paul . . . As you well know my friend – There is no place like home:-)