The Curious Case of our #2 Catcher. Why Should this be So Difficult?
Last year, we were force fed a heaping dose of pain. Down the hatch went El Presidente and his untrusted VP. All season we waited for Sabean to find a competent, major league replacement for Posey but none were to be found. Picking up someone like that, mid-season, is just not an easy thing to do……
At the end of the season we saw Whiteside STILL playing, even in meaningless games. Hector Sanchez watched quietly from the bench probably wondering to himself “How could THAT guy be playing in front of me?” The season ended and we had all learned a good lesson about the back up catcher role. When your starting catcher is a star, you simply have to have a back up for him that is competent. It was ugly and obvious: there was just too great of a drop off from Posey to the deep depths below of Whitey and Stewart………
Sadly, the off season brought us nothing except the same guys. A lesson that I thought was so obvious to learn clearly wasn’t and from the start of spring training all signs have pointed to the same 2 numb skulls fighting it out for the back up catcher spot……
And with Posey getting almost no game conditioning behind the plate this Spring it would seem obvious to me that having a competent back up would be critical going into the 2012 season. And I think we all know that he’s going to be seeing a lot of time at first base this year. Again, unless the Giants are planning on having an orange back stop as their replacement player, the writing on the wall seems to be the back up spot going to Whitey or Stewart…..
Here’s what the catchers have done this spring:
Toss Susac, Williams and Joseph out since they were just in Arizona to smell the air and be seen by the coaches. The obvious player who is tearing up the Cactus league is Mr. Hector Sanchez. The current belief is that he’s getting better at calling a game but that he’s not ready yet. Apparently, he won’t know what to throw Braun in a 2-2 count. I don’t think this should be the reason he isn’t our #2 catcher on opening day. For starters, he’s not going to learn what to throw mlb hitters if he’s catching down in Fresno. Like anything else, at some point he’s going to have to do it in a game and there will be some bumps along the learning curve. A possible response to this would just be to have our veteran stud pitching staff shake him off if he calls the wrong pitch. I know this sounds like a WILD plan but come on, is it really that hard to have the pitcher over rule the guy a few times over the course of a game?
With Posey playing a lot of first base, the back up catcher WILL get some regular playing time. And when Posey is catching, Hector can sit in the dugout, watch and learn. Hell, have Decker come sit next to him for a month or 2 and teach the kid everything he needs to know. Daily catching lessons from watching and talking to Posey (as well as Mr Former Catcher Bochy) will accelerate the learning curve. And while he’s learning and playing a couple of days a week he’s doing something completely foreign to Whitey and Stewart—he’s *hitting*.
Maybe Bochy and Sabean are cool with 3 automatic outs at the bottom of the line up (Crawford/Whitey or Stewart/Pitcher but they shouldn’t be. How can you win consistently if you are literally giving away 1/3 of your outs every game?
Hector Sanchez should be the back up catcher when the team breaks for San Francisco. But we all know he won’t be………
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hopefully not too long after. There is a relationship btw SPs and the C, and even if we think it shouldn’t affect things, it does. The C also has to work with the pen guys, from affeldt to casilla and wilson, and SPs as varied as the flamethrowers to the soft tossing Zito. Give him a couple months getting his fundametals down,
But, to paraphrase Johnny cochran, “If Hector can hit, the others should split.”
Thanks for running this thread’. This situation is the most frustrating of the spring. You just can’t have Stewhitey catching 20+ games back there and not hitting. Agree Hector can learn on the job. This just reeks of Bochy’s stubbornness when it comes to veterans. Remember how long it took Posey to crack the line up when he was clearly ready.
Yes, I do remember, but how did that work out again? And Lincecum is on record saying how much Molina helped him to get his Cys, and how long it took he and Posey to get on the same page.
I think Posey is only going to go 3 days a week behind the dish as the season kicks off so by carrying Hanchez it would be trial by fire which seems to be the problem in Bochy and Sabean’s mind. I’ve been listening to spring training games this year and don’t recall Hanchez having caught any of the back end guys or Wilson yet so maybe that is telling. He’s is a switch hitter so there is that highly coveted versatility coming off the bench. Between PH and filling in for Posey, he should get enough ABs. I am on the fence on this roster spot but would rather see him get the shot.
watching lehigh and ohio u was a lot of fun, and poor SMC got burned by a well run iso play by purdue, who then stopped gaels last shot (after a dumb one by page and bad t/o by steindl). Lot of good ball played by a lot of guys for whom this is as far as they go.
flav mentioned lebron the other day, who doesn’t do much for me either in terms of “greatness.” But, if I was coaching him, I’d post him up and dare a smaller guy to fight him off and try to out muscle him inside. Put Bosh at high post where he can shoot or drive and wade on the same side wing (so you can’t double) as James, and either of those two enter the ball inside to him and cut to the hoop. No one his size can handle him inside or run with him in open court, and if you put a C on him, just move james 5-10 ft out to short corner and he takes him to the rim with his quickness. Add a shooter on the weakside and a pass first PG to set it up, unstoppable. And don’t walk the ball up the court neither.
But no more 3s , and none of that stupid boring high screen and roll BS where he is alone 30 ft from the hoop.
They wont do it. Sanchez needs to play everyday and once, twice, or even, three times a week wont cut it. He will go to the minors for further seasoning, then be called up (if he continues to perform; and Stewart and/or Whitey are flailing), where he can be that “once, twice, or three times a week” guy. Again, right now, he needs to play and there are no spots for him on the roster, thus he’ll be sent down.
If it were 20 games, there wouldn’t be much of an issue, but it looks to be 40+. But a couple things- Posey was clealy ready when he cracked the LU, it can be argued that the extra time in AAA is why he *was* ready. Total, he played barely more than one major league season in the minors. There isn’t a persuasive argument that he was held up..
Now, as to Hector, yesterday Bochy said what we all know: ““Hector is doing all he can do,” Bochy said. “(But) it’s a long shot.” I would expect Stewart to open the season but one good way to judge who is getting a serious shot, is the at bats. Hector has 20 to 17 each for Alphonse and Gaston. And Bochy is now praising his defensive work. I also would like to see him make it out of camp but he’s only caught 46 games above “A” ball. A month or so to polish his skills wouldn’t bother me.
And I would be ok with this. Giving him another month of catching every day will only help and having Stewart catch a couple of games a week for the first month isn’t going to ruin us.
BUT, if it goes on all year that will be unacceptable…..
BF puts his foot down hard!
Thought John Shea’s piece today in the Chron did a good job highlighting the dilemma.
“Of the Giants’ four main catchers in training camp, three are comfortable catching any pitcher in any ballpark against any opponent. The other is a 22-year-old who started last season in A-ball and is getting a crash course on catching, throwing, positioning, tagging, pitch-calling, ball-gripping, ball-blocking and strategizing.”
Hector: “I’m learning everything. A lot of it is new for me.”
Bullpen coach Bill Hayes:
“Sometimes there’s a lot of excessive movement. He doesn’t need a moving target back there,” Hayes said. “I talked to him about setting up a little earlier and having a little less movement. Umpires don’t like movement.”
Shea adds: Neither do pitchers.
http://tinyurl.com/77uwrkn
Shea’s column specifically states/conveys what a few of us intuitively knew . . . Thanks for sharing St.
De nada.
I think we’re all used to the vague ‘needs to work on his D’ and don’t hear much about the the subtle things.
Are you enjoying being back in the states or still feeling wanderlust?
Here’s what Bochy and Cain said just a couple days ago;
“Matt Cain spoke highly of Sanchez’s game-calling after throwing to him on Wednesday.
“I don’t know if (he) was maybe timid to call different pitches here and there, but I think now he’s got the confidence to take some chances on throwing pitches in or throwing changeups behind in the count, or throwing different pitches. I think he’s got that confidence,” Cain said. “Because I think he relays that confidence from maybe the pitching staff and the way that all the guys are not afraid to throw any pitch really in any count.”
I asked Bochy about Cain’s comments, and he said, “The kid’s got a lot of confidence. He can hit, he can catch and throw. It’s just a matter of getting some time up here to where he does feel like he belongs and carries himself like that.”
So Bochy said he hit, catch,and throw. Cain says he can call a game. I guess we need to know if his ambrosia salad is as good as Vera’s…
Quite frankly, I miss S. and C. America, especially Ecuador . . . Not a lot of artifice there, i.e., the people seem more authentic and genuine, especially the women. 😉
That being said, there is a lot to be thankful for, e.g., indoor plumbing/toilet paper, friends, family, my own bed, and . . . the start of baseball season (grin).
Yeah, I was in Chile last May and felt the same thing. I did have use of my buddy’s IPad with 3G and MLB, so I was able to keep an eye on G’s games while cruising around Santiago. Very surreal exp.
I heard good things about Chile (and Columbia). I met three women who were from Chile in Quito and we palled around for 4 days . . . They were absolutely gorgeous, all in their mid-20s (ask Flav, he has access to my Face Book page pictures). Anywho, they said their country was beautiful and they would be my tour guides if I ever go there. I may take them up on that offer. 🙂
Another person I met there, named Jose, said that Americans still have a misconception about Columbia. All the major cartels have been eliminated. You still have as much drugs coming out of the country, if not more. However, they are all “Mom and Pop” operations and they know not to touch the tourists or make spectacles of themselves . . . or else, the policia and army will put severe heat on their operations.
Yeah, I took my 7″ Samsung tablet and that worked out fine . . . much better than my Apple laptop would have, since I was backpacking and needed every bit of space available.
It will all work out gents.
It’s obvious Boch is only looking at 1 stat this spring for his backup catchers ,Stolen Bases!
Whitey and Stewless both have 1.
Ed from across the pond would be up for a live draft? Bless you my son. Say hi to the Duchess of Cambridge for me. And tell her she has impeccable taste in fashion. She’d look good in a cardboard box.
ST Paddy’s Day …..!
Nipper, my middle name is indeed Patrick. But I still feel slighted.
Why no Happy St. Dennis’s Day?
Send Sanchez to Fresno. Why not? We don’t want him sitting on the pine or stuck in the bullpen at ATT. Plus it gives BF an issue to fret over!
Why does it seem that other teams are willing to let rookies learn on the job while the Giants won’t do it unless backed into a corner by injuries or complete lack of production at the position. Which they’ll have plenty of if TF is right and Stewhitey catch 40 games.
Hey Loo! Did you see Street Life win the 2nd at the Big A.? Impressive closing into those pedestrian early fractions. The son of the ’07 KY Derby winner Street Sense, is an imposing figure. Big horse. But I don’t like the way he runs. He runs with his head too low. He’ll probably be the wise guy pick for the Wood, but I think I’ll have to pass. No thanks.
Brian, I don’t believe Stewrt/Whitey will catch 40 games, I think Sanchez will be up pretty quickly if he doesn’t face plant in Fresno. And neither I, or more importantly, Bochy, rule out that he makes the team out of camp. It’s certainly obvious that they like him…. it pisses me off WAY more that Zito has already been given the number 5 starting job…
OVER/UNDER on the number of Zito starts this year? I’ll set the line at 16 1/2.
What say you?
Reminder: A’s/Giants game will be on CSN today at 1:00.
Reminder #2: Giants/Dodgers will be on MLB Net at 7:00 later tonight.
But I should be passed out by 5:45. So please give me the rundown tomorrow.
Thanks Dennis, I was about to write an open letter to MLB and Bud Sellout about this being ST and folks here on the EC might not be up to speed yet for 10ET starts.
But since Dennis put up this reminder, I’ve got the game on with Kruk and Kuip.
First bold prediction of the year from yours truly. Well, it might not be really that bold, but it’s outside the box — MadBum will have the most W’s from our starters this year. 16.
As I’ve posted, many experts, including me, consider him the ace already. Nothing outside the box at all.
He’s third choice in the betting window behind Timmy and Matt.
That’s outside the box.
FanGraphs, BP, along with most experts have the top 3 as MadBum, Cain, Lincecum. And I’ve informed you long ago of the same thing. Pay attention Denny. Or stick to the ponies..
Oops, sorry, I forgot to use your new name…Dennis Hussein Abd-Smith
Odds for most wins by a Giant’s starter:
Timmeh: 6/5
The Horse: 9/5
The Hick from NC: 7/2
Voggy: 8-1
The Antichrist: No odds. But your soul will rot in hell should last past May.
It’s a good chance to look at a lot of guys… wait a minute . Take 2: it’s a good chance to check out some young guys…OK, there will be many baseball players to watch…
If you’re into that…
I haven’t had a chance to read the posts yet. The Giants are starting right now on Comcast. And are on tape delay tonight on MLB network.
Actually it’s two different games. The day game vs. the A’s, and the split squad tonight vs. the Dodgers, both on TV. Cool!
Ah, I see Dennis had it covered. Cool.
This being St. Patrick’s Day, I’d be remiss if I didn’t mention Silky Sullivan and provide this clip.
If you have a few minutes, please watch…”and there was Silky Sullivan…”
Good thread summary BF. I’ve said before that I think Sanchez will get at least another 300 innings or so, at minimum, of catching down in Fresno with more teaching — 30 games or so. That should take him through Mid May. I’d bank on more time in Fresno, especially if SF is doing OK in wins. Hector will improve his D, and keep sharp at the plate, hopefully. Doesn’t seem like a bad plan. If they bring him up mid season for some offensive pop, they’ll be more comfortable with his D. This veteran pitching staff should have no issues in game calling — as you said BF, what’s the problem with shaking a guy off once in a while? The game calling aspect is way overblown with a veteran staff. He clearly should be ready to backup if not catch a lot by midseason, and should be a big contributor next season. The switch hitting aspect he brings is cool, not to mention the pop…
What was the reason again that I wasn’t supposed to like Melky?
Who said you weren’t?
Maybe I’m wrong, but I thought I read some shit by some sports columns when we first got him. Don’t think they were out of KC but I can’t remember. Not so?
I think you’re right twin. I just went back through a bunch of articles and could only find stuff that said he wouldn’t be able to do what he did last year. I couldn’t find anything that said he was a fuckwad. I’m glad, because I think the guy will produce..
However, we all acknowledge that ST numbers are not neccessarily an indicator of regular season performance- yet we all ignore that on occasion. If we remember that Huff hit .369 with 6 HRs last year in AZ, it might help remind us…
The “Manchurian Candidate” mind control that you were subjected to here.
Nate with a nice RBI double and a patented throw out at home. Like some of you, I’m leaning a tad towards preferring him coming off the bench after two trips through the lineup for D purposes, and timely hitting. He seemed last year to really prosper in the latter innings coming through with some clutch hits. That’s assuming Blanco continues to impress, and could start in right — his speed early in games would be disruptive and help set the table…
Nice outing from Timmy. Looked sharp.
Pablo!
Giants hitting on all cylinders today. Let’s start the season!
OK, I’m probably the 500th Flapper to say this but damn, I think the Panda is going to have a huge year.
Joan Embery and Jack Hanna know about Panda’s. The Giant’s don’t know dick about Panda’s.
Please: Don’t feed the animals.
Anyone who bets on the horses when they run on an off track is a goddamn fool.
I told you guys my middle name was Patrick. My second middle name is goddamn fool.
Just for my own satisfaction, did any of you watch the Silky video?
It would mean a lot to me if your responded yea or nay.
I know the horses ain’t the bag of most of you guys, but Silky was more than just a horse…
He was mighty fine eatin’?
I watched it, Dennis. Nice film. I’m not a horseracing fan, but it’s an interesting story. I like newsreel films. They capture a time in history. 1958 is an interesting moment in U.S. history, the ending of an era.
OMG! He’s back! Think “heavy sinker”, think can’t get anybody out…Scott Frigging Munter!
Him & Taschner were a decent R-L combo out of the pen for a very short time…
That’s a ringing endorsement.
There was a Bill Hall sighting during the Yankee game earlier today. He hit a homerun. I don’t know what his chances are of making their team.
Dontrelle Willis got released from whatever team he was trying out for. I wonder if anyone else will give him a try.
Ryan Braun is having a miserable Spring. He’s got the added pressure of everyone watching to see how he does at the start of the season. He won his case on a technicality, and he has to play under a cloud of suspicion. Not a fun way to play baseball.
I checked out the Silky video Dennis….good stuff. I bet on the horses once every couple of years, but I was impressed by your analysis of “Luck” (I wasn’t aware of the show) and also watched the video for that you posted yesterday.
I’ve only been to Santa Anita once and it was by total accident. In the late 80’s I was on a 2 car road trip to LA to raise hell on the Sunset Strip with some buddies from Sactown. We were all in our early 20’s. We had some free place to crash lined up in the Arcadia area and somehow it fell through and, cheap bastards that we were, we ended up sleeping in the cars. We went to breakfast the next day and somehow stumbled upon Santa Anita. We were impressed with the place, so we drove in to check it out. We ended up walking in while the morning workouts were taking place. It was all very casual. I don’t think we had to pay anything and we just sat there in the bleachers forawhile, shooting the shit and watching the proceedings on the track—-none of us really knowing what was going on, but digging the surroundings nonetheless.
I think he comes from 40 lengths back to win this one
Oh, it’s the same one posted before. I didn’t even notice the clip. I presumed it was something new about him the way D was so emotional about it.
Any reports on how #38 is after those 30+ pitches?
Here’s my Vin Scully impersonation:
“Belt hit a windblown homerun”
“Belt hit a windblown homerun”
“Belt hit a windblown homerun”
“Belt hit a windblown homerun”
“Belt hit a windblown homerun”
“Belt hit a windblown homerun”
“Belt hit a windblown homerun”
“Belt hit a windblown homerun”
Braun’s playing under a cloud of suspiscion? Poor guy. He shouldn’t have cheated.
Oh I didn’t mean anyone should feel sorry for him. I’m just saying that he didn’t get off as scot-free as some people might think. He has to play without his juice, with everybody ready to pounce on him if he does poorly. It’s not a good situation for him.
He’s going first pick in the first round in many drafts. Shit, with all the clouds you’ve noted I wouldn’t risk the #1 pick of the draft on him. Shit, I wouldn’t take him ANYWHERE in the first round.
I haven’t researched this because he’s not on my draft board, but is there a possibility that MLB could win some type of challenge or protest of the arbitrator’s ruling? And if that happened, wouldn’t the 50 game suspension kick in? Another reason not to draft him…….
Another thing about Braun- he lets his teammates and a bunch of other people go out there and defend him, and in his heart he knows what he did. Hope he can sleep well at night.
No, he DID get away with it. Scott free. And that’s the bottom line. He got off on a technicality and had the balls to carp about how badly he has been treated.
Baseball is a sport full of pressure. The batter has nowhere to hide in the batter’s box. Braun KNOWS everyone is watching to see how well he can try to prove he wasn’t juicing. That’s extra pressure on him. He’s about 1 for 15 so far in Spring Training, which may or may not be some kind of a foreshadowing of his season to come.
Braun’s career had sort of existed in a kind of obscurity before, playing in Milwaukee, with Fielder on his team, getting more of the media buzz than him. He’s fully front and center now, without his juice to help him.
WTF is Jefferson doing showing up and going 2-14 in his first game as a Dub? Dude, you’re a bad salary swap for a bad attitude guy and a first round pick (seriously, that was unreal that Oakland got SA to do this deal).
If your shot isn’t falling in your first game for your new club maybe continuing to jack up misfires is not the best route to take………..
Blancoooo . . . nice grab.
Fuck, Vin. I’ve been watching the game for one inning, and you’ve mentioned ‘windblown’ 55 times. . . .
OK, Flav. I’m in. Let the sucking begin.
deJesus is hurt. The dreaded (for him anyway) oblique.
Every time you turn around, you see Blanco crossing homeplate.
This is the first i’ve seen of him. Or the Giants for that matter. DUde flys. Nice d as well.
“This is the first i’ve seen of him”… Zumie told you- you have to turn around..
A friend stopped by, said Belt hit a home run. I missed it. What kind of home run was it?
“San Francisco entered the game leading all National League teams in exhibition batting average, runs, hits, home runs and slugging percentage.” Taken from the story on SF’s MLB site. Ah, dreams of the coming season — take out the word “exhibition” and wouldn’t that just be so refreshing…
Hope they haven’t peaked too soon 😉