This is Zito’s Worst Spring as a Giant
I suppose the headline is at least arguable. Man, he’s had some doozies! In 2008, he had a 10.31 and a WHIP of 1.96. He walked 13 and struck out 4 batters that year.
But I still think this one is worse. His ERA is better (6.61) and he’s definitely crouching his ass off. But he’s given up 25 hits in 16.1 innings. Opponents are hitting .379 off him and his WHIP is an incomprehensible 2.08!
If I wasn’t a Giants fan I would be totally intrigued with what he’s going to do once the season starts—like a *just how bad can this get* kind of moment.
People forget, he only started 9 games last year. And it wasn’t just because of his *injuries*. He didn’t start a game after July 31st and was reduced to 4 relief appearances in September. So when you hear fans say “he’s just as good as everyone else’ #5” that isn’t actually true. I’m not going to bother to look it up, but most teams have a #5 who makes more than 9 starts in a season…….
And most #5’s have WHIP’s that fall somewhere in the 1’s….
So we’re going into our 6th season with Zito. Six long years. What to expect in 2012? Well, we know there’s going to be lots of crouching. Maybe he’s crouching so much so we can’t see him on the mound–can’t boo what you can’t see, right? I’ll let Clubber Lang handle this prediction:
A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball 
His new bride, “Dammit Barry! How many times do I have to tell you to lift up the toilet seat when you take a leak?”
Poor Barry doesn’t get any love . . . sigh.
Quick stats from the Flap League . . .
2011 HRs
Shady – 177
Sactown – 283
blade – 238
Pussy – 251
Bozo – 248
Dirt – 189
NoTalent – 345
Pawlie – 245
UncChuck – 269
Kevin – 218
Berra – 267
GiantHead – 218
2011 Stolen Bases
Shady – 149
Sactown – 149
blade – 175
Pussy – 132
Bozo – 172
Dirt – 166
NoTalent – 146
Pawlie – 149
UncChuck – 152
Kev – 113
Berra – 162
GiantHead – 222
No talent and Sactown are the big boppers (even though No Talent won’t have Howard much of the year) and GiantHead doesn’t believe speed kills.
I like those stolen base numbers better than my home runs…
No surprise that Rebecca had 283 hrs. She digs the long ball.
Zito either produces value or must leave the roster one way or the other. Someone has to have the guts to finally pull the plug. It just didn’t work here.
This is getting into Armando benitez territory…other than K and K, I don’t notice anyone defending the guy, even on the splash, and fans reception at ATT isn’t going to be pleasant.. I think someone needs to convince him it’s time to retire, as in an offer he can’t refuse..
Agree WillieD.. His introduction on this years team might get more boos then Joe Lacob.
Benitez started blaming teammates and fans. That, even more than poor performance, earned him his trip to the airport..
I majored in latin am history, which was much more fascinating to me than US. The generals used to tell the president they were replacing, “either we go the airport or the graveyard. Your choice.”
That is a great line willieD which I have heard more than once before, most recently in Panama.
yeah, this goes back to the 70s when i was at jose state, and was probably old then. Seriously tho, there are so many bad guys (and some good) in the hist of Mexico and the SoAm republics of argentina brazil peru colombia and venezuela, plus uruguay and bolivia. Never got enough of reading about this stuff, including a seminar on chile (dozen books i think), post allende.
I was very surprised to see Sports Illustrated pick the Giants to win the NL….noit surprised they have the Angels winning the Woirld Series.
If that happens, will be a tremendous season. I am still a bot more pessimistic about our offense, but I see us winning the West.
Who would you rather pay back? The Yankees 50 years later or the Angels 10 years later?
My bookie from last month. Otherwise there’s a knock on my door.
I consider the pitching to be a bigger problem. Right now, with Zito definitely a question mark to be in the rotation and Vogelsong a health question mark, Surkamp is the 4th starter, and then? Ramon Ortiz is actually a possibilty and the fact that he could be a possibity puts Zits back in the rotation. Matt Yourkin is a 29 YO lefty from Napa, a true journeyman. The fact that *he* can be mentioned shows how thin we are. Forget the 5th starter, we only have 3 reliable ones as of now- and the names I’ve listed are IT. We have no prospect waiting for his chance…
Of Fangraphs top SF 15 prospects, the highest rated pitcher is a 6th round pick rom last year, who has never pitched in pro ball yet- Josh Osich. He’s rated above Surkanmp. Josh is 7th, Eric 9th, reliever Hembree 10th. Basically, we have Surkamp and some kids ready for “A” ball…I think I’d watch the waiver wire for a possible 5 this year.
They just released Ramon Ortiz.
So that leaves the Zit and Surkamp as the 4/5, depending on Vogelsong’s health. None of the three can said to be reliable starters as of now. Ortiz and Yourkin are going to Fresno, nothing changes from my earlier post, as long as Denny isn’t driving them..
This is Flav’s blog, but the reason I come here is because anyone can provide an opinion and (hopefully) not be ostracized for it. So, I said Barry was a satisfactory end of the rotation guy (4 or 5). Here are my specific reasons why:
A guy who tosses nearly 200 innings, has a K/9 that sits between 6.5 and 7.0, a low 4.00-range ERA, and 10 wins is a solid back end of your rotation kind of guy. Even Zito’s peripherals looked good then with a solid walk rate, LOB%, and an FIP that was fairly close to his ERA totals. The numbers certainly aren’t gaudy but if those are the totals coming from your fifth starting pitcher, then you’re probably doing ok.
Last year, should be thrown out and here is why:
The pitcher you saw last year is not really a fair representation of Zito. He took a comebacker to the mound in mid-April that hit his right foot, his plant foot, and he never quite recovered from the damage done. He made it back briefly in mid-June, but between the Giants trying to now juggle six starters and the right foot still seemingly causing issues, Zito had his difficulties. When his right ankle gave out on him during a play in the field in mid-August, he was done — put on the shelf indefinitely. Take away that injury and perhaps Zito pitches with the consistency he had in the previous two years.
Done laughing? Hey, I made jokes about his injury last year too. However, the fact of the matter is that HE WAS INJURED AND NOT FAKING IT. Believe me, the Giants organization attorneys are probably researching any way they can get out of that monstrosity of a contract.
It still boggles the mind that the Giants ponied up $126M for 7 years to a guy who was already losing velocity on his fastball, was losing break on his curve, and saw his ERA stabilize up in the 3.80+ range with an FIP about a full point higher during his final two years in Oakland, but folks, that’s what frickin’ happened. If you want to blame someone, blame the suits that offered him this contract. Blaming Barry is ridiculous. Now, if you have a view that is different than mine, please provide a rational rebuttal, besides, “Barry sucks” and his contract – which is immaterial now since he is being used as a number 4 or 5 in the rotation. Thanks for letting me share. 🙂
I’ll say one thing. You’re right about the contract. You can’t blame Zito for accepting what was offered
When asked what he expects from Zito this year, Bochy replied “Just give us a chance to win”
That’s setting the bar high
I’ve been a bit of a zito apologist for the last couple of years. I thought a lot of his problems were getting his curveball called for a strike, especially for strike 3. It seemed like, for the games i watched and i watch most of them, when his curveball isn’t called he would get frustrated. it seemed he said to himself “fine. you won’t call that how about this fastball” which was then hammered. Last year though, it seemed like it was more a velocity issue on his fastball. when it’s in the mid-high 80’s, he’s effective. once he drops below 85, he’s toast. Don’t know if can learn to be effective with an 82 mph fastball as the speed change to his curveball isn’t that big. In any case, it’s who we got. I agree with twin that the prospects in the minors are awfully thin. whatever happened to that guy they traded last year (for beltran?)?
I think I’d be more worried if Bubbles had a GOOD spring. As in “I’ve turned the corner (I’ve crouched around the corner?) and won’t get hammered 3 out of 5 starts.”
His problem is he can’t throw the curve all the time. Guys wait on him until he has to come in with a hittable pitch or take the walk. Drrrrty fell victim to this as well. Though not as badly. But both would end up at about 100 pitches by the 5th inning.
By the by, from 2007-2010, he averaged 1.85 WAR per season, which — contract details aside — is great for a fifth-starter. Ask Twin if you don’t believe me.
Blade sings to Barry
Seems we and everybody else have this Zito hand wringing every Spring. Frankly, it’s old, way past old now. Into the 6th season with this dude, my view is we don’t need to hear from him anymore, not a word. No excuses, no explanations, no zen-like bullshit, no Tom Houseisms. Just get people out, or get out. Period. They just released Ortiz, which I don’t get, he’s been not so hot, but yesterday pitched very well, where Zito got absolutely rocked. I don’t believe for a second that Zito is a league comparable #5 — his bad Karma to the team is off the charts. Most #5s are at least serviceable. He goes out, and we all wonder when the roof is going to cave in. When he pitches, bad things happen…
He’s going to Fresno( according to Henry)..unless he gets addicted to the raisins, he can be back in a couple hours….
Baggarly reports:
1. Surkamp has a balky elbow. MRI in progress.
2. Ortiz released because of $100K Giants would have to pay him if in organization past a certain date. Really? We got Zito getting hammered and $100K is a problem? Sheezus…
3. Franchez shut down the last few days means things don’t look good at all. Baggs asks career threatening?…
Who is this? In three spring starts he has a 9.72 ERA, 8.1 innings, 13 hits, 11 runs, 9 earned runs, 5 walks, 8 strikeouts, a .351 opponent’s average, with a 2.16 WHIP. Stats per Baggs.
Hint. The Melky trade is so far looking pretty good for Sabes…
Sanchez
He had two bad 1 and 2 inning starts. A much better one a couple days ago. I covered this for you. For money, I’ll give you several links-he’s either the 1 or 2 for KC…
Why don’t you people just be consistent? Decide whether ST numbers are important or not. You decide whether they’re important based on whether you like the guy. There’s no winner or even leader in the trade so for.
And even Zitman’s ST numbers don’t mean shit unless there’s an injury or mechanics issue. He’s going to, uh, pitch rather poorly regardless of his ST numbers. Jumping all over them is just absurd.
ST numbers?
Before everyone else says it, who cares?
Sanrkk have you heard the expression “throwing away good money after bad”?
Are you saying Zito is bad money?… 🙂
Well, dead money anyway . . .
Blade–I’d argue against your claim that he never recovered from his foot injury. The first injury was a sprained foot. Even after that healed they kept him on the DL to work with Raggs on some mechanical stuff. His 2nd injury was related to the ankle not the original sprained foot that he hurt in April…..
Also, I don’t think that looking at 2007–2010 is the right way to go if you are trying to predict how he will do in 2012. He has lost velocity over the last few years. Some reports are that his fastball is as low as 82 mph. With him getting hit harder this spring than any other, the 82 mph claim is entirely plausible…..
And Zito will not be able to get hitters out consistently if he’s throwing that slowly. At this point, he’s not an average number five. He isn’t an mlb pitcher anymore. And I believe his performance this year will prove that before he is ultimately DL’d again or, hopefully, released……
Yeah, BF. I don’t understand why Zito apologists, and there are some, continue to have hope. He’s not getting younger. As he ages, he’s not going to suddenly find more stamina, more power in the arm, regardless of what new trick he brings to each new spring. It’s like the Gamer — “he works really hard, 500 swings a day in the cage”….
On the contrary snarkk, I don’t consider myself an “apologist” for anyone. Barry Zito is the worst free agent signing (and there have been quite a few) the Giants have ever made. I have said that many, many times. In fact, I told my buds on the day of the signing, “WTF?” I guess “hate” just isn’t in my vocabulary. What I didn’t appreciate – besides the signing of Barry – was the Giants trotting him out there as their number one pitcher for the first couple of years . . . this exacerbated a bad situation.
Nor do I have “hope” for him . . . If we had a deep rotation and prospects in the minors that were ready, I would be first in line to say, “Plug someone else in.” However, they really don’t have anyone else, thus we’re stuck with Barry. All this hand wringing is amusing, but I still haven’t seen any in-house alternative fixes to replace Zito.
When they decide they’ve had enough of Barry Zito, Surkamp figures to be the first man up. I have no problem with that.
Oh wait! The Giants announced today that starting pitcher Eric Surkamp had an MRI on his left elbow. Surkamp’s elbow had stiffened up on him and he hasn’t played catch the last two days. He was supposed to pitch Monday, but is awaiting the results of his MRI. The team is hoping it’s just inflammation and a week of rest will cure the left-handed hurler. Like Twin said, who replaces him?
When Bubbles was, on SOME occasions, able to throw in the 86-88 range, he was mildly effective. For whatever reason, he has not been able to consistently do this. And it is getting worse apparently.
You all know that Surkamp also has a fastball that is high-80s, right?
They’re gonna end up trading Tommy Joseph, Panik or some other prospect for a SP this year.
“Book” meet “It!”
Who the hell is Joaquin Arias? He’s supposedly on the fast track to make the team. I haven’t been paying that close attention, but the dude has played at 2nd 3rd and sort, and Bochy is apparently inpressed. I guess this has something to do with the ragin’ Cajuns being available for trade.
He’s “in the mix” because he’s a good defender at all the infield positions. He’s also a .276 hitter career in the bigs, although with no power at all. As in 0 HRs, although he did show a little in the minors.
Bochy is impressed since he can field, but can’t hit. At least that’s better than Tejada and O. Cabrera last season, where both could do neither…
I pity any Flapper who might have landed Zito on the autodraft.Like pork bellys Sell…Sell Sell…
With 12 teams in fantasy baseball, it is very unlikely that a number 5 would be on your staff Kat. Not impossible, but unlikely, since I was surprised to see on CBS, that Zito’s average draft position is 261.
And here I thought bumping him up would be a sure way to get him. Oh well, he’s available on the waiver wire.
Would not be shocked if the Giants go with Clay Hensley as the 4-5 pitcher right now.
Hearing Shawn Estes on the broadcast with Doug Greenwald just furthers my belief that he’s a fucking moron.
What does it say about the Giants pitching depth in the organization if they can honestly say there is nobody better in the organization than Zito to take his place? First, I don’t believe there isn’t anybody, anybody, even a little better than he is anywhere in the organization for that #6 or #7 or whatever he really is. He is flat awful, as in reaching or crossing the line of being not major league serviceable. If that is true, it’s a huge, huge problem for this organization, and it needs to go out and tell Oswalt to get his arm strength up and get ready…
It’s so bad, they signed Brian Burress. He might get a shot if Surkamp is gone for awhile. League is pretty threadbare, too, which explains D-Train finding another taker.
There’s always a huge huge problem, you wouldn’t have it any other way. Put the smiley face here..anyway, it’s true, there isn’t anybody better if you understand that he should really be the 6 if everyone is healthy. But it doesn’t matter- it’s time to be done with him. Sorry, Steve…
If, IYO he’s #6 assuming everybody’s healthy, then who is #5?…
Surkamp.
No need to be sorry Mike. I have no dog in this hunt, i.e., I could give a rat’s ass if they keep him or can him. However, like you – I get tired of people ragging his ass. Giants will make a decision or they wont . . . all up to them.
Ok, agreed. So, lets assume with a healthy Surkamp the Giants will go .450 or .500 in his starts, and would go .300 in Zito’s starts — an assumption that is not unreasonable. In a competitive division, that means easily 5 or 6 more losses in the season under Zito as #5, and short term, could be 2 or 3 more losses the first 2 months of the season. Under those conditions, I argue that the Giants to an extent do not care about winning, they care more about losing organizational face, or some other reason to keep Zito, because he gets paid regardless. Keeping Zito is NOT a supportable baseball decision– it cannot be justified 6 years in, honestly, on baseball grounds…
So, owners don’t necessarily know all that much about baseball. Releasing Zito will not be Sabean’s call. It’s the owners’ call. The contract is too big for anyone but the owners to make the call.
I have no idea who you are trying to convince, Snarkk.. certainly not me. Remember- I’m the Shark guy
I’m not trying to convince anybody here that they shout cut Zito. I’m just trying to figure out if anybody has any real insight, baseball insight or otherwise, WHY the team just won’t cut him. Losing organization face is not a reason. Giants fans overwhelmingly WANT him to leave. When people say its an ownership choice, well, duh. But, what is it that ownership needs to further review? They’re going to pay him the dough, regardless. Do they really think he’ll improve if they cut him, and embarrass them by winning a dozen games with the Yankees or Dodgers? That’s the only thing I can think of that’s stopping a DFA…
Damn, 6 years of rehashing what to do with Zito. I think I will go out to the fantasy league and put him in my bull pen. Maybe then Bochy will know what to do with him.
LOL Kev . . . Post of the day 😉
Oh, yeah. I guess I should look at my team.
Hey Dennis, you want Alfonso Soriano?
Thanks to the wonders of the autopick, Soriano was drafted onto my team for me.
The reason I bring up Joaquin Arias is that I’ve never come across his name here, there, or anywhere til I read today that he’s a possible to make the team.
Low-level guy? Sure . . . at least he’s versatile. But he certainly isn’t power off the bench.
“But he certainly isn’t power off the bench.” If he does make it, he wil replace another guy who isn’t “Power off the bench”, but presumably provide better defense. You people need to get off your POTB obsession.. He’s not going to affect Pill, anyway. Now we need two POTB guys? Greedy greedy greedy…
Question: Arias has played 23 games in ST and you hadn’t heard of him until today?
I just thought he was one of those “filler” guys for ST. I was surprised to hear they were getting really interested in him.
Like I said I’m not paying that much attention to ST. I’ve barely seen half a game. Most of the games are dutring the day, and I’m working.
And, like I said, he’s is making one of the Cajuns expendable.
My whole point was, I’d never heard anyone anywhere talking about the guy til I saw his very real shot at making the team reported in the Bee today. I don’t listen to KNBR and I don’t read the Chron much anymore either.
You guys are lagging . . . This is where I get my Giants news . . .
He’s been bantered about on the chat shows and as a dark horse for the 25 in the newspaper blogs. Links? No, but I’ve heard his name on KNBR gamecasts and seen him talked about — I think in both the Pavlovic and Baggs blogs. He’s supposedly a better glove than Theriot and the Runt at SS, can play 2nd and 3rd, too (most games in MLB he’s played 2nd base), and now with Franchez having his career maybe hanging by a labrum, Arias’ glove looms larger.
He’s a career minor leaguer, with 113 MLB games under his belt. http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/a/ariasjo01.shtml. Suffice to say, if we’ve got Arias, Burriss, and Crawford playing up the middle IF positions, I’d jump for joy if all of them hit a combined .250…
Ewisco, you were asking about Wheeler…..I saw some video of him during one of the Mets’ ST games on the MLB network. He wasn’t pitching for the big club; he was pitching on one of the minor league fields. The only thing they said about him was that he hit 97 on the radar gun that day, which is cool, but not necessarily meaning much of anything. They consider him the Mets’ #1 pitching prospect.
—–
Not sure why Snarkk goes on about Oswalt. There just isn’t any way the Giants are going to release an $18 million a year pitcher to sign somebody for $9 or $10 million a year. Maybe the Yankees or Red Sox would do that, but just about no other team is going to do that. They just aren’t, and to angst about it seems pointless to me.
If hardly anybody will do it, then he won’t cost $9 million…
A lot of teams don’t have to eat a Zito-type contract before signing Oswalt.
23 to 25 teams pull in less revenue than the Giants…
Jesus fucking Christ on a stick, the season ain’t over because Zit is now our number 4. I don’t understand the doom and gloom lately, the way this team is right now we’re in the playoffs. With a few tweaks along the way, we are deep into the playoffs. The last couple of weeks it sounds like we’re rooting for the A’s. News alert, we are not rooting for the A’s. If you all think the season is lost, I hear OSF is driving a bus to Bryn Mawr and the ticket is as cheap as the gin, although gotta tell ya, I hear Bryn Mawr looks a lot like a basement in Walnut Creek.
Some pessimism crept in, I think, because the Giants haven’t been hitting very well in the second half of Spring Training. People are getting nervous about whether that means anything or not.
Zum and Bozo, voices of reason . . . Thank God.
The tenor here has been gloomy from the start. I don’t know why you go on about the hitting. BTW, Fatso was 3 for 5 today with a 2 run walk off HR…
Again, the concern should be for the starting pitching..
I’m not as concerned about the starting pitching. I guess I’m just choosing to not be concerned. My attitude is that if I have to be concerned about the starting pitching, it’s going to be a LONG season. I’m going to assume Vogelsong has another nice season, and Zito gets a quick phantom injury.
We have some outstanding professionals to fret about the offense, I leave it to them.
Now, today, Theriot took a pickoff throw in the face and had to leave the game bleeding from the nose and mouth. No reports yet on extent of injury…
Giants play hardball; show no mercy at the sentencing hearing for the woman payroll manager that stole $2M from them. http://tinyurl.com/d2elkfl
Let the Zito jokes begin…
Big fire going on here southwest of Denver (lower north fork fire it’s being called), with sustained winds of 35-40mph, gusts to 75mph. This is near where I use to live in the mountains . . . From my condo window, the smoke plume is unbelievably large. Already a crown fire – most dangerous fire to fight.
Pablo, Buster, Belt, and Huff will be a very solid heart of the order. If the newbies do what it’s claimed they will-get on base, Crawford and Burriss just have to stay awake and the team will hit just fine…
Pablo, Buster, and Melky I’m sold on. The others are question marks. Belt a smaller question mark than the others. The most awesome thing in the world would be Crawford and Burriss nailing down the middle infield. That would be beyond huge.
At least with those two I can’t bitch about how old they are, my usual Giants complaint.
Oh wait, they’re too young…
Speaking of expendable Cajuns . . .
Who might that be?
The 103 win Giants of 1993 used 11 of the most mediocre starters you ever saw.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/SFG/1993.shtml
Two of ’em happened to have unconscious years. And who the fuck is Greg Brummet?
On the starters – Vogs and Zit were always 4 and 5, with the injury it’s now Zit 4 and Vogs 5. No big change there, the big change is if Bum can handle the 2 (I think he can but that should really be the question on starters).
Relief- We still have one of the best staffs, the Leftys are awesome, if Wilson has problems we have options to fill that gap for awhile (maybe not the whole year but I think we’re OK there).
Hitting – Huff should be an upgrade over The Bat, Belt should be an upgrade over Huff. I don’t know about the Fatso stuff but I expect Panda to have an all-star year. Angel over Torres? Don’t know yet. Melky will be more consistent than Cody and Blanco more rounded than Ford. Nate is a fourth OF and that won’t change. Burriss for a short time will be OK, long term? With Crawford’s D any offense will be OK. Posey is the big question mark. Can’t just think of him as 1B, Belt is better D and probably about the same numbers. If Buster can’t catch move him to third and Panda to left or trade his ass.
Catching- Hector will be up before the all-star break so I’m not sweating Stew or Eli in the first half.
This is a long post so not many will read it, but that’s my take. Fuck it, let’s start the season and see what really is needed.
I read it and thank you for posting it. I agree with most of it too.
Sorry if I jumped on a soap box, it just seems we keep going on about what’s wrong with the team and not enough about what’s right.
You wont hear me saying that John. I like ALL the acquisitions/trades Sabes made this off season. Will they all work out? Probably not. Baseball is like that.
Occasionally, you see a few people that think the Giants have some sort of money tree outside the stadium that the owners can shake any time they feel like, where adding to the roster is a simple decision. Works in reverse too, i.e., why can’t the suits eat Barry’s contract? Think about that for a sec . . . What if they asked a homeowner who is underwater on his mortgage, “Hey, why don’t you walk away from your mortgage?” Easier said, than done.
I called him Fatso. You don’t know me all if you think I’m down on him. If I can’t kid about him, no one can…
Well, I guess it’s good to see someone not saying of Crawford “if he hits .220”, but “any offense” will not do. Folks act like he’s Ozzie. He’s a good defensive SS, not great. He has to hit. And he doesn’t rate a cult yet…
I read it. I like most of it, except Panda will never be in LF…
Is that who “fatso” is? Personally, I can’t keep up with all the nicknames that the Giants are affectionately blessed with here. I give all of you A+ for creativity. Sort of like Chuck, I get much of my information about the Giants here (since very few Giants are Fantasy League worthy). I think I mentioned a couple of weeks ago that I was scratching my head about some guy you all were calling Blanco??? Who the fuck is that? New name for Whitey? I finally went to the Giants site after snarkk gave me a clue, 9 stolen bases in spring training. Holy Shit! The guys name is actually Blanco.
You guys fool me all the time. 🙂
Twin, sorry for using the Fatso remark, I was just trying to highlight the fact that a lot of people seem to be abscessed with Panda’s weight and not the all-star he is.
Snarkk, he may not ever play LF but he is more athletic than Kevin Mitchell and Panda could if that was what’s needed. My point was, if Buster can’t play Catcher why weaken the team by putting him at 1B (long term thing, short term I have no problems).
Well, they had four acceptable fives- find ’em, feed ’em, and suit ’em up..
Schulman says it’s just a flexor strain for Surkamp. Back in a week or two.
“This is a long post so not many will read it”
Come on, Bozo. We deserve better than that. We’re a bunch of readers here.
you’re the best one. 🙂
You mean the rest of you aren’t reading 1,000-page Neal Stephenson novels?!
I read 3 of is books this morning, but we aren’t talking about me, we’re talking about normal people 🙂
Getting through the whole Baroque trilogy (Quicksilver) was tough, but most of that was waiting for the next one to come out. I haven’t read his new one yet and look forward to him going back to the Snow Crash days.
Zum are you into William Gibson at all? On his blog, he mentioned listening to my band before going to a book signing in SF. That was almost as cool to me as being mentioned in Zippy the Pinhead.
A lot seems to be made about how Zito has no zip on his pitches. It ain’t just that; I can remember some S-L-O-W pitchers that drove the hitters crazy (Tommy John later in his career, Frank Tanana well after he lost his fastball, Moyer, just the other day, etc.). They threw “junk” but very effectively. Zito’s junk is just… junk. Michael (and others) is right, the hitting will be much better than last year and it says here that Bochy will manage it well with all the pieces he has to work with. With Zito still here and Voggy and Surkamp fighting aches and pains, they’re going to need a new hand. Oswalt would be cool, IMO, but yeah, they’re not going to pay that unless they really need him. Right now, I’m sure #1 on the list of things to do in Scottsdale in these final days of ST is finding a 5th (or a 4th for that matter)…. and I’m betting they’ll find it.
Forget his fastball, his problem is the same it’s always been since he was here- he can’t throw strikes. And I don’t mean he’s wild. He’s had reasonable success against impatient hitters who will chase his slop. If forced to come in, he’s burnt toast. 2-0, a good hitter up, just cover your eyes.
As always, nice to “see” you, Paul.
I’ve always wondered if it makes the fielders a little more nervous fielding behind Zito, knowing the other team is probably going to be hitting some rockets.
Well, Vogelsong pitched well, so he should be ready to take his turn on Apr 15th and at least give them 4-5. Hensley Mota can easily give them a couple of innings if needed.
Yeah, cool news. Too bad this one today wasn’t on TV.
Here’s Henry’s story on it:
“….Ryan Vogelsong’s Cactus League debut, which was a smashing success.
Vogelsong threw 39 pitches in a 4-2 victory against the Royals and was so economical he lasted into the third inning. He allowed two doubles, one of which should have been ruled an error on Nate Schierholtz, walked none and struck out Billy Butler and Mike Moustakas on curveballs.
With Barry Zito struggling and Surkamp now on the shelf with a flexor tendon strain, Vogelsong’s outing cheered the Giants immensely.
“Huge relief,” manager Bruce Bochy said. “He’s so important to this rotation and this club. He’s one of our guys. It’s nice to see him on track. We have a plan for him to pitch on the 15th, and he’s on his way to that.”
Vogelsong will throw 50 pitches against the Reds on Saturday, then likely stay in Arizona while the team heads north and make two starts in extended spring training to prepare for an April 15 season debut.”
The way things have shaken out, Vogelsong could be the most important guy on the team.
Moyer was throwing 79 mph the other day, and the Giants couldn’t hit him. Zito can’t spot his pitches consistently like Moyer. That’s the problem. Hitters ignore his curve — they’ll take it and risk a called strike. And, when he gets behind, he can’t use his lame fastball on hitters’ counts, because when he throws it then they’ll crush it unless its absolutely perfect on the black. But, we all know that, we’ve seen it for a while now…
Help me here . . . There was a guy in the late 60s and 70s that played for the Red Sox that threw a softball “blooper” like pitch. The guy was a black latin and he was sort of heavyset and smoked cigars. Forgot his name, but he was quite successful.
Luis Tiant?
Looks like he’s still the man…
that is a fuckin’ epic picture of a man who still has enough *old man strength* to kick the ass of 90% of men half his age……..
Yeah, I seem to vaguely remember him striking somebody out (Tony Perez?) on that pitch early in the ’75 World Series, and then tried to do it later in the Series, and the batter hit it for a homerun. Or maybe I’m totally remembering that wrong. (Yes, I remember stuff wrong sometimes, which has been well-proven on this blog. )
I meant to put a (grin) on that, by the way.
Yep. Thanks:-)
Blade said: “Think about that for a sec . . . What if they asked a homeowner who is underwater on his mortgage, “Hey, why don’t you walk away from your mortgage?” Easier said, than done.”
Flavor: you just can’t compare the 2. A home owner who’s underwater is fucked. It’s usually their single asset. And they can’t sell it. The Giants have money. Gobs of it. I suspect that if they sold the team they would sell in the ball park of one billion dollars. And if their cable deal isn’t as sweet as the Dodgers deal then they need to renegotiate……..
Asian Paul said: “They threw “junk” but very effectively.”
Flavor: Zito’s *junk* is his curve ball. That’s it. And it’s still pretty spectacular. But he has no other pitch and his fastball is now traveling along at 82 mph. How slow does a baseball need to be thrown before it can no longer maintain flight? This should be a science project at Paly High……
He can’t locate his non-curve balls. That is the core issue at this point in his career. And if your curve ball is all you have it’s a pretty easy pitch to stay away from no matter how much it bends. There is no easier pitch to identify from a lefty than a big, loopy curve ball (I know, I’m left handed and i still, to this day, can throw a disgusting curve ball that sails harmlessly by the batter (usually anyone who’s drunk or stupid enough to stand in the batters box before a softball game 🙂 )……..His other pitches are traveling at imminently hittable speeds and they cross right through the hit-me zone……….
Anybody else watching this beat-down Texas is putting on the Reds? 12-0. I wonder if Texas will beat their way through the AL again this season, only to lose to the NL team in the World Series. They could become the Buffalo Bills of baseball.
Yu Darvish is on all 5 of my fantasy teams and he’ll be on a 6th if I decide to buy another one. It’s the same as horse racing, the Euro’s who come over aren’t understood by the American bettors since they just don’t have their Euro form to read. Listen up, I know Darvish has all the publicity, that doesn’t mean a saber-stat guy is ready to pull the trigger on him. But I am, he’s legit and the real deal……..
Jeff Francis could be avail soon.
Tiant was great… effective as a pitcher, hilarious as a human being. I still remember some funny commercials he did for some brand of sausage. And from what I remember, even when he was hurt, he took the ball and pitched better than anyone else. One cool dude.
I don’t know why I remember him pitching but I totally do. Saturday Mel whatever highlights? He fell into and will always fall into the category of *old school badd ass* player from the 70’s. I’d say about 92,543% of those guys could kick the shit out of any of us if we deserved it back then. And, look at that dude, he’s putting up with ZERO shit right now, lol……..
Mel whatever Allen
“This Week In Baseball.” Those kinds of shows were great back in the pre-ESPN, pre-CNN days. Remember the weekly Notre Dame football re-cap with Lindsey Nelson? That was essential viewing.
Mel Allen was the greatest voice in baseball history, IMHO…
“How ’bout that!”
“The fastball is the best pitch in baseball. It’s like having five pitches, if you move it around.” – Luis Tiant
Per Wikipedia, “Tiant broke through in 1968 (he began his MLB career in 1964), after he altered his delivery so that he turned away from the home plate during his motion, in effect creating a hesitation pitch. According to Tiant, the new motion was a response to a drop in his velocity due to an arm injury.[1] Twisting and turning his body into unthinkable positions, Tiant would spend more time looking at second base than he did the plate as he prepared to throw. In that season, he led the league in ERA (1.60), shutouts (9, including 4 consecutive!), hits per nine innings (a still-standing franchise record 5.30, which broke Herb Score’s 5.85 in 1956 and would be a Major-League record low until Nolan Ryan gave up 5.26 hits/9 innings in 1972), strikeouts per nine innings (9.22, more than a batter an inning), while finishing with a 21–9 mark. Beside this, opposing hitters batted just .168 off Tiant, a major league record, and on July 3 he struck out 19 Minnesota Twins in a ten-inning game, setting an American League record for games of that length. His 1.60 ERA was the lowest in the American League since Walter Johnson’s 1.49 mark during the dead-ball era in 1919, and second lowest in 1968 only to Bob Gibson’s 1.12—the lowest ever during the Live Ball Era. With lefty Sam McDowell, Looie is the only right-hand starting pitcher in the AL to S0 9 batters/ 9 innings 2 seasons (1967 & 1968). With McDowell and Sonny Siebert and others, the Indians staff led the AL in SO 5 consecutive years, including a record 1189 SO in 1967, a record that would stand for 30 years until the steroid era.”