You Playa Da Game, But You No Trada Da Picks

Posted in Uncategorized by snarkk on July 17, 2012

Alright you 8 balls. No game yesterday, no stormy waves or flat calms. So, with the Giants, as usual, needing bodies at the trade deadline (which ones is another discussion), I’m getting back to a pet peeve: MLB does not allow trades of draft picks. I mean full-on trading of picks for players and/or other picks. There’s no crying in baseball. And, no trading of picks. Both verbotens are, in a word, horsemanure.

The Giants may be loathe to trade Gary Brown, Tommy Joseph or even a low minors guy like Krick, but they’ve got little else in the system others covet. They can’t gut the big club that already has no depth. So, how to get the player(s) that might put them over the top this season? Trade PICKs. Yeah, if they COULD trade picks. The Giants could package their 2013 and/or 2014 #1 and/or #2 or whatever with a middling prospect and/or Nate or Huff or whomever, and get a decent RH bat or Houston Street or [insert your preferred target]. Trading picks would help clubs fill needs while still keeping core strengths and top prospects for a stretch run or the long term. And, that increased flexibility could be a huge game changer for getting bodies before the deadline. Especially now since with this bullshit second Wild Card, the increasing supply of pretenders and contenders likely prefers not to give a major league body to get one from the now-dwindling supply of bottom feeder clubs. The new Snarkk’s Law is that trading picks keeps down the marginal cost of acquisitions in a tightly-supplied market. (Hopefully more dependable than the Laffer curve — it got hit hard — early and often).

The arguments against trading picks are lame. The rich teams like the Yanks and RSox will load up on picks they’ve cleaned out from the small market teams. Answer: Nah. Just rule that picks can only be traded for major and minor league players or other picks. No cash. Small market teams will keep trading away top picks because they can’t sign them. Answer: The “slotting” system already offers mild protection against that. More can be done. Limit the number of picks tradable by a club in any one season and limit the number of future years to 2 or 3 so a bad team can’t piss away their next decade of picks. And reduce the number of draft rounds to a dozen or so – that way there’s more FAs available for anybody to grab with good scouting. Not everybody wants to play for the Yankees. Drafted players sometimes won’t sign, so some picks acquired would be wasted. Answer: Unlikely for top picks, and if it happens, hard cheese (see Pirates with cheddar and Appel). If you are a dogmeat team and want to trade your good, but too expensive MLB player to a contender to grab that club’s first round pick next year, sniff around and make sure your targeted player(s) is/are signable and whether they’re hooked up with Borasss. You could also limit the tradable picks to the first 2 or 3 or at most, 5 rounds. Manageable, and fan followable. Trading your 21^st and 36^th round picks would be dumb, near valueless. Picks after the first few rounds are not worth much in terms of projecting who is going to be a prospect – might as well be a PTBNL.

I’ve dropped links below to some related articles. Trading picks would not be difficult to implement. The NFL, NBA and NHL all do it. But, then there’s the idiot Bud factor (see replay and 3+ years of the A’s/Giants “blue ribbon” territorial rights panel). Under the new CBA, 2013 will see the first of a yearly lottery for the bottom 10 revenue and 10 smallest market teams where among them, 6 additional draft picks will be awarded. Those teams alone can then TRADE the awarded picks once — they can’t be re-traded. Why have a lottery for this? It’s nonsense. Just GIVE each of those clubs an additional, repeatedly tradable pick. IMO, the new bottom feeder lottery is a throw-away bone, and predictably for MLB, needlessly contrived and complicated, but at least a baby step towards tradable picks.

Lots of NFL fans, like on Chuck’s blog, love to jerk off year round to the NFL draft, climaxing in April when Goodell hits the Radio City stage. In stark contrast, because there are so many rounds and so many players, nobody but dopes like us gives a crap about the MLB draft. But, it IS important. Just look at the Giants and Nats first rounders on the big clubs. Tradable picks (including compensatory ones) would fuel fan interest in at least the first few rounds of the MLB draft.

And, if picks could trade, this upcoming trade deadline activity would be far more volatile — and fun. Across MLB, the use of picks in trades would promote more fan buzz for teams still in the hunt, and more hope to clubs out of it – they’d be holding onto players as late as possible to squeeze top picks for next year out of the stupidest contenders. Hell, trading picks would be worth it alone for just energizing the sub-market for rent-a-players. If Alderson could have given up Beltran in exchange for SF’s #1 and #2 pick the next season or conditionally (if he extended with the Giants) for both #1s the next two seasons, Wheeler might still be in SF’s barn…

1. http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2012/05/30/wisch-why-cant-mlb-teams-trade-draft-picks/ 2. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/380347-why-cant-mlb-teams-trade-draft-picks 3. http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20111130&content_id=26059392 4. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1196153-2012-mlb-draft-why-teams-should-be-allowed-to-trade-draft-picks

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Nipper said, on July 17, 2012 at 3:43 am

MLB draft ……I don’t give a damn. Period.
Bozo said, on July 17, 2012 at 5:05 am

“Hell, trading picks would be worth it alone for just energizing the sub-market for rent-a-players.”

This year MLB has made it even tougher on the rent-a-player market. Starting this year, if a player is on the last year of his contract and gets traded, the team that traded for that player will not get a supplemental pick even if the player is offered arbitration.

“After the 2012 draft, free agents will no longer be classified by “type”. Instead, a team will only be able to receive compensation if it makes its former player an offer at least equal to the average of the 125 richest contracts.[29] However, if a player is traded during the final season of his contract, his new team will be ineligible to receive any compensation.”
blade3colorado said, on July 17, 2012 at 6:16 am

Weatherproof games: Indians-Rays and Cardinals-Brewers

Giants-Braves could experience a short rain delay when first pitch is scheduled for 7 p.m., but these thunderstorms should pass through quickly. Marlins-Cubs, Orioles-Twins and Pirates-Rockies each could experience a brief intermission with thunderstorms arriving in the mid-innings.
willedav said, on July 17, 2012 at 7:27 am

Good arguments, snarkk. It’s too bad selig is so glacial about implenting a new idea, and of course that he makes it so complicated trying to placate everyone and waters it down to unpalatable level.
Interesting that one of the articles is centered around the Cubs, who as the writer admits have drafted miserably. For a team stuck with vets with bad contracts that are hard to trade, acquiring draft picks would be a godsend. That way a team could rent a Soriano for a couple months without having to give up a player already in the system in a deal that could work out for both teams.
I would also argue that such a system could actually help the smaller market teams— if the Royals could sell off Frenchy for high pick instead of player, they could then draft their own, or use those acquired picks and stockpile them as trade bait to make a deal for an established player at position of need.
Look at all the years the Rays sucked and had high picks—if they had been able to trade some of those they surely could have acquired some real mlb level talent for them and possibly have been more competitive sooner. I guess of course you could always have someone make a Ditka deal and give up 8 picks for ricky williams—which I’m sure bud would disallow under “best interests of baseball”—esp if someone involved was in a dress.
Alleykat said, on July 17, 2012 at 7:32 am

Great topic Snarkk…I recommend you for Comish!!!
I too feel MLB should get out of the “Stone Ages”and have draft picks to deal.It would make it a hell of alot easier to get deals done with other teams without blowing up your farm system.
chipower9 said, on July 17, 2012 at 7:40 am

Good topic, snarkk. I definitely think trades have the possibility of enriching the game. But as willie mentions, Selig won’t make this type of move. He’ll implement some chicken shit type of change, like having the hosting of the World Series tied to the winner of the ASG, or adding the second wild card.

Michael – from yesterday’s thread…I will take your next slot. So, I have this coming Thursday (7/18) and the following Thursday (7/25). If someone else really wants this spot, let me know.
willedav said, on July 17, 2012 at 8:18 am

The Pirates are in the perfect situation to take advantage if such as Snarkk’s idea were in place now. They might be a bat or two away from postseason which would greatly enhance team revenue and provide cache to become more attractive destination to potential FAs instead of the opposite. They get an extra pick because Appel stiffed them–if they could deal one or both of those for a bat such as Willingham to the Twins who might have more long term goals in mind, both teams could benefit. And again, with extra picks the Twins might be able to turn those into productive players they control or trade them for someone they really like.
- snarkk said, on July 17, 2012 at 11:39 am
  
  Good points, WillieD. Great example of how tradable picks right now would help a contender that can’t afford to trade a player to get a player, and help the bottom feeder club re-stock for the long term. It makes so much sense, that’s why MLB isn’t doing it….
Alleykat said, on July 17, 2012 at 8:25 am

Votto,Bautisa,Ortiz all injured.All were in the HR derby.Hmm,just. thankful Posey,Panda were not in it.
Not a fan of that event.Look what it did to Bobby Abreu’s swing after he particpated,totally fucked him up the rest of the 2nd half.
unca_chuck said, on July 17, 2012 at 8:55 am

Bud Selig and good ideas go together like sushi and ice cream.
- Nipper said, on July 17, 2012 at 12:15 pm
  
  BLEEP!
willedav said, on July 17, 2012 at 8:56 am

Can’t recall where I read it, but someone said trade deadline will be where we see what others think of dodgers farm system. by all accounts, it is not near what it used to be, with some arms but not much else. Two of them Eovaldi and Tolleson are already up.
the others that have come up–de jesus, van slyke, herrera, sands and now luis cruz—don’t appear to be any great shakes or they would have stuck around. In their place are juan uribe who was at SS sunday, adam kennedy, juan rivera, j-h jr, gwynn jr…,none of the above are bringing a quality bat or arm to replace barbs if his DL stint lasts more than current 15.
Despite wild pitching in a run, joe blanton wiped them out for 8 last night, and struck out Kemp for the last out of the 8th. Last time i predicted SF might run away with division, we went on the suck road trip. But, LA sucked as well and only wound up with the half game lead, which has quickly become a deficit. They just don’t have as good a team straight up as SF I don’t think, and we’ll see if they have enough to offer compared to other teams as they try to acquire the likes of Dempster or another bat.
- twinfan1 said, on July 17, 2012 at 9:42 am
  
  The respected John Sickels rates their system 22nd, ours is at 26th. This was in January of this year:
  http://tinyurl.com/6mjpyvc
twinfan1 said, on July 17, 2012 at 9:12 am

Actually, past round 1, the MLB draft becomes a near crapshoot. Even Round 1 is nearly that. Take a look at the 2007 draft, that’s a hardly a collection of All-Star MLB players.Except in very few cases, a draft pick is not going to be an intregral part of a trade.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Major_League_Baseball_Draft
unca_chuck said, on July 17, 2012 at 9:17 am

Well, Atl is red hot, coming off 7 wins in a row. And we have bubbles and his magical mystery tour starting tonight. Atl is squeezing out Jerrjens lotion and his 5.00 era. Let’s hope we hit on this roadie.

The heat wave broke (88º 60% hum), but the weather is scattered t-storms for the next few days. Strangely enough, Atl is barely above ,500 at home (23-22), but is killng on the road (26-17). As hard as this team struggled on that last east coast swing, they really need to get 3 wins. 4-2 would be a lot to ask for, but they should be able to break even.
DJLoo said, on July 17, 2012 at 9:32 am

YOUR MOTHER HAS A HAIRY PUSSY!!!!!
- DJLoo said, on July 17, 2012 at 9:32 am
  
  Whoops, sorry that was supposed to be on yesterday’s thread…
  - chipower9 said, on July 17, 2012 at 9:37 am
    
    “What’d you say about my Momma?”
    
    “I didn’t say nuthin’ ’bout the bitch!”
- blade3colorado said, on July 17, 2012 at 10:22 am
  
  I thought it was, “The best part of you dribbled down yer momma’s leg.”
chipower9 said, on July 17, 2012 at 9:36 am

I’m down with 3-3. The thing that sucks about this trip…Zits opens and closes the trip (possibly against Doc in Philly – but for now it is looking like he will match-up with Blanton). Maybe he will pull a pink stuffed elephant out of his ass and surprise us with two quality starts (wins?).
- blade3colorado said, on July 17, 2012 at 10:24 am
  
  Any time you go .500 or better, that is a good trip IMO. Unless, of course, you are the hapless Houston Astros, then a .500 road trip is cause to break out the champagne.
snarkk said, on July 17, 2012 at 11:26 am

In my thread, there’s a hidden tribute to a ’60s TV show and an actor that recently passed on. If you ID it and him, you’ve proved your age and earned a salute from me…
- zumie said, on July 17, 2012 at 11:50 am
  
  I’m going to guess “McHale’s Navy” and Ernest Borgnine, although I’m not sure if I ever saw a single episode of the show. But you did open with a reference to the sea. (grin)
  - blade3colorado said, on July 17, 2012 at 12:03 pm
    
    The phrase was, “Alright you 8 balls.” Yes, McHales Navy and Ernest Borgnine said it. Almost said Laffer curve, but I know that charts a relationship between tax rates and tax revenue.
  - eddacker said, on July 17, 2012 at 12:03 pm
    
    I’m guessing, no I know, zumie has it right (or left depending on how you roll) McHale’s Navy always was showing sailors whispering about how much the MLB draft keeps them going into old age.
- snarkk said, on July 17, 2012 at 12:17 pm
  
  Good job, guys. You got it, I even dropped in a sailing reference. McHale always called his band of merry men “you 8 balls”. Ernie Borgnine was a class act, and a real guy. I saw a clip where Tim Conway was talking about him. Conway was new to acting, a rookie, and Ernie was already an Oscar winner and many movie credits, so TV was kind of a lark for him, a money thing. Conway asked him one afternoon before the shoot what his “motivation” should be for the scene. Ernie said, “Your motivation is that if we don’t finish this shoot before 5, I’m gonna kick your ass”…
  - unca_chuck said, on July 17, 2012 at 12:43 pm
    
    One of my favorite movies as a kid was Ice Station Zebra. Ernest Borgnine was great in that.
    
    His Spongebob work was also top-notch.
  - Nipper said, on July 17, 2012 at 12:48 pm
    
    Borgnine was better as a heavy in films. McHales Navy had a very strong cast to back up Borgnine. Of course most of the actors were very old men to be on active duty. Wink, wink…
  - blade3colorado said, on July 17, 2012 at 12:56 pm
    
    Chuck, I remember seeing that movie in Hawaii (I think I was 13). Like you said, a great movie (albeit, the critics panned it) and excellent special effects for that time, e.g., first live shot of a sub’s continuous dive. I think it lost to 2001 A Space Odyssey for Oscar special effects. All sorts of things going – star vehicle for Hudson, who’s career was going nowhere, beginning of Jim Brown’s new career as a movie star, and Patrick McGoohan, took a break as The Prisoner, a wonderful television show I liked.
    
    Oh yeah, Chris Berman referred to major league pitcher Bob Sebra as “Ice Station Sebra”. Dumb, I know.
  - unca_chuck said, on July 17, 2012 at 1:56 pm
    
    Yeah, I was 7 when it came out. Saw it at the old Fox theatre on 3rd Ave. in San Mateo.
gianthead said, on July 17, 2012 at 12:09 pm

Back from vacation, the great blackout of 2012 (four days of no power) and witnessing two Giant defeats against the Nats….is Tommy Joseph expendable? Willingham for Jospeh and couple of other low-level prospects?

Willingham seems to be one of the few bats on the market and the others with the Pads or Douchebags are not likely to send their hitters to SF.

Huge two weeks of baseball coming up. Survive this road trip and then Dodgers at ATT at the end of next week…may be able to create some breathing room…
Alleykat said, on July 17, 2012 at 1:35 pm

Hey alright I will date myself….Went to Universal Studio as a kid,it was just small venue back in the 60’s not like today.But they did have the cool sets of both McHale’s Navy island set and the Munsters House with the stairs that go upstairs rise open where the dragon comes out of,+The neat coffin phone booth where Herman Munster made his calls.
twinfan1 said, on July 17, 2012 at 1:39 pm

Well, it kept the paychecks coming, but I still find it a shame that fine actors like Borgnine and Griffith are most remembered for silly television series. Excuse the literary reference, but it reminds me of O’Neill’s father, a Shakespearan actor who opted for the ease of touring in the lead role “The Count of Monte Cristo” – a money making but unchallenging role.
The fictional James Tyrone, modeled after O’Neill’s real father, said in the play:
”That God-damned play I bought for a song and made such a great success in – a great money success – it ruined me with its promise of an easy fortune,” Tyrone declares toward the end of ”Long Day’s Journey,” adding, ”What the Hell was it I wanted to buy, I wonder . . .'”
OK, back to the regularly scheduled “The Fonz Returns”
unca_chuck said, on July 17, 2012 at 1:59 pm

Yeah, you look at guys like Fred MacMurray, who was great in Double Indemnity and other ealy roles, and see him on some stupid-ass sitcom like My Three Sons and yeah, at some point it’s about getting anything.

At some point everyone jumps the shark . . .
chipower9 said, on July 17, 2012 at 2:09 pm

Today’s starter for the Bums (against Doc H) is still listed as TBD (not sure where the hell he came from). Barbara B threw before yesterday’s game, but from an article on the Bum’s site: “Manager Don Mattingly said he doubts Tuesday’s starter will be Chad Billingsley, who took an MRI on Monday — his second in as many days — that revealed only inflammation in his sore elbow. Billingsley played catch before Monday’s game and said it went well.”

Also read that in addition to Victorino, the Bums are also potentially eyeing a trade for JRol.
- blade3colorado said, on July 17, 2012 at 3:13 pm
  
  Yeah, Victorino is not playing well right now, so he is a perfect buy low candidate.
- blade3colorado said, on July 17, 2012 at 3:14 pm
  
  Conversely, Rollins is – excuse the pun – on a roll right now. Has been playing really well.
ewisco said, on July 17, 2012 at 2:16 pm

Blanco RF
Theriot 2B
Cabrera LF
Posey 1B
Sandoval 3B
Pagan CF
Sanchez C
Crawford SS
Zito LHP
- chipower9 said, on July 17, 2012 at 2:35 pm
  
  Hmmm…Hector still the catcher for Zits and Tim. I remember when we kicked the tires on this weeks ago wondering how long it would last. It’s lasting…
  - twinfan1 said, on July 17, 2012 at 2:43 pm
    
    And Bochy just said that Posey would catch Zito tonight. Wouldn’t surprise me if something was up with Belt.
  - twinfan1 said, on July 17, 2012 at 2:55 pm
    
    Or- he’s just not hitting. And a helluva lot more drama with Hector out there.
chipower9 said, on July 17, 2012 at 2:34 pm

Wow…Sanchez DFA’d by the Royals…
demp28 said, on July 17, 2012 at 2:34 pm

Royals designate Jonathan Sanchez for assignment. Called up Ryan Verdugo; the other pitcher traded for Melky. What a steal of a deal.
- chipower9 said, on July 17, 2012 at 2:37 pm
  
  Beat ya to it, bruthah…even tho you are the one who gave me the initial heads-up…
  - demp28 said, on July 17, 2012 at 3:44 pm
    
    Yeah well I was typing on my smartphone, not a computer with big ass keys.
demp28 said, on July 17, 2012 at 2:37 pm

Verdugo to start tonight for KC.
- chipower9 said, on July 17, 2012 at 2:38 pm
  
  Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz….
twinfan1 said, on July 17, 2012 at 2:38 pm

It was a great deal for us even if Jonathan was on pace for 20 wins and a CY.
- chipower9 said, on July 17, 2012 at 2:46 pm
  
  I agree, Michael.
- eddacker said, on July 17, 2012 at 2:55 pm
  
  Yeah, I’m not going to make merry over a ball player’s demotion. I like good baseball and I know how hard it is to be successful in the MLB so I root for every player to succeed and when they don’t I hope for a comeback. I am glad we got Melky. I do hate the Yankees and a few players, but that is not for public display when they do bad, it is personal.
  - ewisco said, on July 17, 2012 at 2:58 pm
    
    don’t see why we wouldn’t try to grab him and work something out in the minors. it will be interesting to see who and how long before someone grabs him.
  - blade3colorado said, on July 17, 2012 at 3:17 pm
    
    Agree with ewisco – grab Dirrrrty and see if he has anything left. Not like it’s a big risk. Who knows? He might still be salvageable.
ewisco said, on July 17, 2012 at 2:56 pm

is Posey having more soreness than they’re letting on? It sure seems like it. Sanchez is an 0-3 away from having the same BA as Belt (who has a better OBP and Slug). HS did have a nice night batting but i don’t understand why he’s seemingly so highly regarded where Belt seems to be constantly struggling to get AB’s.
- eddacker said, on July 17, 2012 at 3:03 pm
  
  Belt could be traded before the night is over. Huff is available.
  - Alleykat said, on July 17, 2012 at 3:39 pm
    
    Well that would be the dumbest thing the Giants do if they are counting on Huff down the stretch.
  - snarkk said, on July 17, 2012 at 4:33 pm
    
    Available for what?
    A poker party with unlimited cigs and beer?…
twinfan1 said, on July 17, 2012 at 3:05 pm

Hector is a good hitting but so far lousy fielding catcher- but coming off a 4 hit night and with Belt not hitting, I have no beef about it. Huff looming in Fresno is a bit scary, though. We could probably get Hart for Belt and a mid-level prospect. I think Brandon is already over due for a change of scenery.
snarkk said, on July 17, 2012 at 4:17 pm

I predict if they trade Belt he will turn into a young stud next year, wherever he goes. The continual mentioning by any Giant management representative of Huff as any kind of a serious contributor this season is ridiculous…
- Flavor said, on July 17, 2012 at 4:30 pm
  
  I’d be very surprised if they traded him but I could see Twin’s “Belt+ for Hart”— I don’t want Hart though, so I hope it doesn’t happen.
  I’d bring Direrrrty back and let him pitch for the Grizzlies for a while. Didn’t we do that with The D-Train? It costs nothing, why not?
- twinfan1 said, on July 17, 2012 at 4:32 pm
  
  Well, I’ve always thought that they’re keeping Huff around because they don’t believe in Belt.
- snarkk said, on July 17, 2012 at 4:40 pm
  
  Huff is not near as fast a runner as Belt. His OBP will be 80 to 100 points below Belt’s. He is nowhere near as good a fielder as Belt. Huff is a ground out machine. Not to mention there’s no reason to believe Huff will hit many home runs in the second half. And, Huff will not be a Giant after October. Other than that, he’ll be great if he comes back to displace Belt…
  - twinfan1 said, on July 17, 2012 at 5:02 pm
    
    I’m not endorsing it.
DJLoo said, on July 17, 2012 at 4:34 pm

Buster hits like Thurman Munson in his prime…
Flavor said, on July 17, 2012 at 4:55 pm

The Giants aren’t going to trade Belt and give the job to Huff. That’s an easy call. I could see them bringing Huff back and giving him some starts to see what he’s got before the trade deadline. If nothing, which is likely, then Sabes can set his sights on a 1-bag before the deadline.
I’ve got no idea why they don’t want to just roll with Belt. After he finally started hitting they made a big ta-do about how he’d made changes to his hitting and everyone seemed on the same page. Then he went into another visible slump. I say *visible* because when he’s slumping he looks awful at the plate.
Anyway, at this point, I SUPPORT giving him the job everyday and leaving him alone for the rest of the year. I don’t want Hart, he’d hate hitting at ATT and he’s a .250 hitter, at best, right now. I brought up Derrek Lee a couple of months ago but I think it’s clear he doesn’t want to play baseball anymore.
There just aren’t that many other ideas that interest me at first base besides Belt these days…….
- twinfan1 said, on July 17, 2012 at 5:13 pm
  
  It’s my idea to trade Belt because they’re fucking with him. Playing him 50-60 percent of the time is bullshit. I don’t think they*will* trade him but I can absolutely see Huff having one one good game and Brandon sits for a week. Look at how they fucked with Travis. Guzman’s *sister* was next in line…
Flavor said, on July 17, 2012 at 4:57 pm

I’m not sure why Kruk/Kuip are harping on this “Melky wants to prove the Braves wrong” theme. Melky was a fat fuck when he played for the Braves. He doesn’t have to prove shit to them. He should apologize to them, if anything…….
Now The White Shark, he’s got every right to try to stick it to Atlanta this week…….
- snarkk said, on July 17, 2012 at 5:02 pm
  
  K and K like to hype shit and talk shit that the casual fan eats up without thinking. You’re not the casual fan…
snarkk said, on July 17, 2012 at 5:04 pm

Buster definitely clutching up the hits today. That was a cool RBI pick up, after Melky legged out that double against Bourn. Looks like Melky’s hamstring is no longer an issue…
eddacker said, on July 17, 2012 at 5:11 pm

Dare I dream? “Zito stops red-hot Braves” He looks quite nice through 3.
I may be convinced by ewisco that Posey is hurting in the squat.
eddacker said, on July 17, 2012 at 5:16 pm

I just yelled at the tv
opps, wrong thread
zumie said, on July 17, 2012 at 5:16 pm

Well, that just made it a moot point about H. Sanchez.
twinfan1 said, on July 17, 2012 at 5:18 pm

In case you’re wondering, I think Jackson Williams would come up if Hector were hurt enough to go on the DL.
- Alleykat said, on July 17, 2012 at 5:32 pm
  
  Boch will go with his butt buddy Whitey first,wait and see
Flavor said, on July 17, 2012 at 5:19 pm

Verdugo is already making the Royal fans wish Dirrrrty was back—-
- twinfan1 said, on July 17, 2012 at 5:27 pm
  
  I’d guess Jonathan will have several teams looking, at least at a minor league deal. We all know the score: lefty, under 50, breathing..
zumiee said, on July 17, 2012 at 5:25 pm

Keep matriculating around the bases, boys.
- unca_chuck said, on July 17, 2012 at 5:29 pm
  
  Ha ha ,. ,. ,. One of my favorite old VCR tapes is NFL bloopers from around 1981. Hank Stram and Lou Saban are all over that tape. Funny shit.
- DJLoo said, on July 17, 2012 at 5:31 pm
  
  How can all 6 of you miss a play like that? ALL 6 OF YOU?
Alleykat said, on July 17, 2012 at 5:26 pm

Hector out leg injury.Posey back to Catcher.Dave im an idiot Flemmimg sayin :Well that’s not good we don’t. have another Catcher.Hey Dave,Panda becomes the emergency Catcher you RETARD!!!!
unca_chuck said, on July 17, 2012 at 5:27 pm

BUSTER! Having a game . . .
Alleykat said, on July 17, 2012 at 5:29 pm

Way to break this game wide open,with that Baseloaded clear the bases double by Buster.3 hits to boot!!
DJLoo said, on July 17, 2012 at 5:30 pm

Buster is having a Casper Wells caliber game…
- Flavor said, on July 17, 2012 at 5:32 pm
  
  Come on, like anyone could ever impersonate that guy…..
unca_chuck said, on July 17, 2012 at 5:31 pm

Well, Belt gets to play now.

Paging El Presidente . . .
- willedav said, on July 17, 2012 at 5:45 pm
  
  oh yeah. that will solve our right handed power bat off the bench problem right away. And he can’t be worse at 1b than he was behind the plate–two birds with one no whitey.
- twinfan1 said, on July 17, 2012 at 5:50 pm
  
  It would be Jackson Williams, Chuck. IMO.
Flavor said, on July 17, 2012 at 5:33 pm

Zito has turned in another “give em a chance to win’–much better than that, actually. Now he’s rolling with 8 runs, which is like fucking porn to that guy, and we have about a 98% chance of winning this bad boy…….
eddacker said, on July 17, 2012 at 5:37 pm

I know I am going to miss Zito’s complete game shutout, but I may get some sleep dreaming of watching some October baseball.
zumiee said, on July 17, 2012 at 5:38 pm

“Hey, if you think real hard, maybe we can stop Whitey!” A voice from the stage tried to rally the spirits of the crowd as everyone prepared for the inevitable. The thunder grew louder and the winds swept across the festival site. A few seconds later the first drops of the approaching storm were felt.

“No Whitey! No Whitey! No Whitey! No Whitey! No Whitey!”

The crowd picked up the rhythmic chant begun on the stage. Soon everyone was shouting the defiant chant at the top of his lungs. It was the last great challenge; the last battle for the Woodstock crowd to win. They had beaten the odds and the claims of disaster with impressive shows of solidarity and brotherhood. They had survived the food and water shortages, the traffic, and even the mud, but victory over Whitey had thus far eluded them.
- zumiee said, on July 17, 2012 at 5:43 pm
  
  Fun with cutting and pasting.
  - TedSpe said, on July 17, 2012 at 5:49 pm
    
    “There’s some No Whitey rumors going around but don’t panic, there’s a rumour going around that is poison, but it’s not, it’s just No Whitey rumors, man…if you’re concerned about it just take half a tab…”
DJLoo said, on July 17, 2012 at 5:45 pm

“Avilan” sounds like something you take for depression…
Alleykat said, on July 17, 2012 at 5:54 pm

Sure Boch was cringing having to bring Belt in the game.Burriss?,Nate? a pitcher? anybody have a spare 1B glove besides Belt.
twinfan1 said, on July 17, 2012 at 5:55 pm

Williams is a former 1st round pick, said to be an excellent defensive catcher- and finallly hitting a little. If they brought Whitey up instead, Jackson should just retire.
- Alleykat said, on July 17, 2012 at 6:14 pm
  
  He might as well.Though their is miniscule chance he gets the call.After all Whitey’s tutelage of that stellar staff in Fresno may keep him there.(grin)
willedav said, on July 17, 2012 at 5:56 pm

Funny that willingham’s name has come up on this thread a couple times. F-G has an article about whether Twins should deal him or not. One thing about Twins is that they actually have a decent LU, but their SPs are flat awful. No contender is going to give them an SP, and probably not even a decent prospect SP, for willingham. If he went to the NL he’d have to play LF,where he’s a definite defensive liability. But in the draft with high pick or two, someone could work out for them.
zumiee said, on July 17, 2012 at 6:05 pm

Speaking of the baseball draft…..in the Clemente book, in those days, even though he was on a Dodger minor league team, Clemente was available to be drafted by some quirk of the drafting rules, and the Dodger minor league team spent the whole season NOT playing him much because they wanted to try to hide him somehow. Fat chance. The last-place Pirates were now being run by…..Branch Rickey, the guy that had signed Clemente into the Dodger organization.
Maybe Bochy thinks Belt can still be drafted! Oh no I didn’t!
- twinfan1 said, on July 17, 2012 at 6:14 pm
  
  My recollection was that Rickey or a scout saw Clemente throw the ball in some pregame activity and the rest is history..
Flavor said, on July 17, 2012 at 6:13 pm

Eli signed a weird deal last December with the team where he makes 600K this year if he’s on the team or 175K to play in the minors. I’m assuming they’re keeping him around as a total last chance insurance policy. I doubt they’d call him up but they might if they’re tired of paying him 175K to play in the minors…….
- DJLoo said, on July 17, 2012 at 6:17 pm
  
  They could use Eli in Philly in case Victorino gets out of line. Wasn’t that Eli’s solitary highlight from 2011?
  - Flavor said, on July 17, 2012 at 6:23 pm
    
    That *Bouncy-Ali* thing he did? Maybe. Either way, he’s good to have around when there’s ass to kick, or at least when you need someone to threaten to kick some ass. Plus, I’d like to get a look at that head—see if he’s still rolling with the “1800’s President look” or if he’s taken on a new look. He’s a chameleon you know…….
DJLoo said, on July 17, 2012 at 6:13 pm

Belt hasn’t shown me a damn thing…
- Flavor said, on July 17, 2012 at 6:15 pm
  
  well he’s got a snappy name, that’s gotta count for something, Loo. Plus, you’re just too bedazzled by this *Munson* performance by Posey to see the Belt situation rationally……..
- Alleykat said, on July 17, 2012 at 6:16 pm
  
  Neither has Whitey.
- twinfan1 said, on July 17, 2012 at 6:22 pm
  
  Pirates ae contenders, they won’t be moving McGehee
  - Flavor said, on July 17, 2012 at 6:24 pm
    
    Boo hoo. He sucks, they can have him.
  - twinfan1 said, on July 17, 2012 at 6:37 pm
    
    I was trying to cushion the blow for Loo.
  - eddacker said, on July 18, 2012 at 1:29 am
    
    LOL very grin worthy, Mike
ewisco said, on July 17, 2012 at 6:38 pm

Zito has been throwing this little breaking ball that kruk is calling a curveball. It looks like it might be mire of a slider. It’s certainly not that 12-6 curveball we’ve seen from bz. I still see that but not as often and this little thing seems to be working.
ewisco said, on July 17, 2012 at 6:45 pm

Panda sucks. Trade him.
twinfan1 said, on July 17, 2012 at 7:23 pm

Pavlovic seems to think that Whitey would be the obvious choice, and maybe it’s true. But I don’t see how you justify passing up Jackson. He hadn’t hit a lick before this year, and it’s the PCL, but Whitey has NEVER hit a lick.
Looking more and more like Whitey- Williams might as well take the Ledger.
zumie said, on July 17, 2012 at 7:24 pm

Abreu batting lead-off? Donny Two-trips is getting a little desperate….
Bozo said, on July 17, 2012 at 7:24 pm

Tell me again why I didn’t go to Atlanta? Oh yeah, those three losses I sat through in 10,000 degree temps in DC made me gun shy.

Good win tonight.
blade3colorado said, on July 17, 2012 at 7:26 pm

Obviously, Climate Change is over rated.
zumiee said, on July 17, 2012 at 7:29 pm

Alright, who had the Giants winning the Zito game in Atlanta 9-0? Anyone? Anyone? Buehler?….
- blade3colorado said, on July 17, 2012 at 7:36 pm
  
  Good one Zumiee . . . Much better “Live” though . . .
- Alleykat said, on July 17, 2012 at 7:45 pm
  
  K&K….Said for the record.Zito is 26-0 when getting 9 runs in a game.Hilarious! Geez let’s hope so,l could.see.only Todd Wellemeyer blowing that many runs.
Alleykat said, on July 17, 2012 at 7:39 pm

Right now the almighty.Bochy,is saying he will wait for a MRI result on Hector before calling up a Catcher,Pablo will be the backup for now.
Macdog said, on July 17, 2012 at 7:40 pm

Shades of 2010? Right after the All-Star break, Timmy pitched a complete-game shutout and Zito threw 8 scoreless innings. This year: Timmy 8 scoreless innings and Zito 7.
Flavor said, on July 17, 2012 at 7:49 pm

Fantastic job by Zito setting the tone for this tough road trip. He’s doing things he’s never done before and for that, especially with Timmy so fragile, we should be thankful. It’d be great if Sabes didn’t have to go after a *Wandy* and instead went after a hitter……..
- Nipper said, on July 17, 2012 at 7:58 pm
  
  Yeah Zito somehow keeps plugging away. He had command.
Flavor said, on July 17, 2012 at 7:51 pm

Do you guys think they pay all their catchers in the minors 175K to play this year? Of fucking-COURSE they are calling up Whiteside……..
- Alleykat said, on July 17, 2012 at 8:03 pm
  
  Hey BF,they will probably be stupid enough to call up “Two catchers” right now Whitey and Jackson,cause they still want to be cautious with Posey,so the short in of the stick,will be Belt as usual.
  No fuckin way Pablo will get behind the dish,though he is the emergency guy right now.Unless Belt has a catcher’s glove in his bag.
- twinfan1 said, on July 17, 2012 at 8:13 pm
  
  Since it was dumb retaining him in the first place, it wouldn’t surprise me.
Flavor said, on July 17, 2012 at 8:14 pm

by my count, ZIto’s had 13 *good starts* and 5 *bad* starts this year. And I’m not a *quality start* guy. You guys can go through his line and decide for yourself. I’d love to go back and see what all our *Zito win predictions* were. I think I said *3* before the season started.
- blade3colorado said, on July 17, 2012 at 8:18 pm
  
  No idea what I said, except I was unequivocal about him being a satisfactory 4 or 5 pitcher. He has easily out performed that status.
  - Flavor said, on July 17, 2012 at 8:29 pm
    
    before the season started, you were one of maybe 2 here who thought he’d be a serviceable *5*. WillieD was the other one? I can’t remember.
  - blade3colorado said, on July 17, 2012 at 8:35 pm
    
    Yeah, the hatred was unbelievable for him here. Almost like Zito took money from their family. LOL. Perhaps willieD was one of the others who said the same thing. Not certain Flav. I think some people looked at Zito as if he was the ugly stupid red head of the family, i.e., everyone else was so handsome or beautiful (good pitchers) and he was diminished by their excellence. Who knows . . .
  - Flavor said, on July 17, 2012 at 8:42 pm
    
    I got on some time in May. I could find the thread but it certainly wasn’t before the season. Dennis had his poll at comcast sports and that’s where the *Thirteen Percenters* were born.
  - twinfan1 said, on July 17, 2012 at 8:44 pm
    
    Zito was disliked because of his performance here, which totally supported the dislike. In my case, I recall saying he was evil, an agent of Beelzebub, and certain to let us down when needed the most. Is that hate?
  - blade3colorado said, on July 17, 2012 at 8:48 pm
    
    Evil? Beelzebub? Not certain if it is hate, but I have a question . . . do you have garlic on your door?
  - twinfan1 said, on July 17, 2012 at 8:55 pm
    
    We need him to finish that way, however. He has yet to put two “serviceable” halves together since he got here.
  - twinfan1 said, on July 17, 2012 at 9:08 pm
    
    The garlic is around my neck. It must remain there always- which makes dicing it for the puttanesca sauce an serious adventure…
  - blade3colorado said, on July 17, 2012 at 9:13 pm
    
    I always look up words I don’t know – Spaghetti alla puttanesca . . . There is an actual dish called “whore’s style spaghetti” – a spicy, tangy, somewhat salty Italian pasta dish invented in the mid-20th century. The ingredients are typical of Southern Italian cuisine: tomatoes, olive oil, olives, chili pepper, capers, garlic.
    
    I learn something new here everyday. 🙂
Flavor said, on July 17, 2012 at 8:17 pm

I don’t give a shit who the Giants call up. If Hector is hurt (and I haven’t checked the internet for a couple of hours except this site) then a *Whitey* call up will only be a good thing for the Belt-Fanatics (and though I’m not a fanatic, I’m on board considering our other possibilities).
This will just mean Buster sucks it up and plays every day and Belt does the same. Whitey bobs and weaves in the dugout. Doesn’t that work for everyone?
- blade3colorado said, on July 17, 2012 at 8:23 pm
  
  I could give a rat’s ass who they call up too. However, there is NO WAY buster sucks it up and plays every day. He might see an incremental uptick in his workload, but you have to remember there are no catchers, except possibly in the American League (due to the DL) that play every day, e.g., Carlos Santana is one that comes to mind. Even AL catchers take off at least one game a week.
  - blade3colorado said, on July 17, 2012 at 8:24 pm
    
    *DH I meant vs. DL.
- twinfan1 said, on July 17, 2012 at 8:30 pm
  
  I give a shit, because I want the guy who would be the best back up catcher. IMO that would not be Eli.
  - Flavor said, on July 17, 2012 at 8:37 pm
    
    to me, IMHO, that’s only an issue if he plays a bunch of games. Last year, it was a massive issue, because every game we played after Buster went down we had an Aaa catcher starting for us.
    If Whitey comes up and jizzes all over the dugout for a couple of weeks with an occasional start, I don’t give a shit……..
Macdog said, on July 17, 2012 at 8:20 pm

If I go to Sunday’s game at Philly and see a Zito-Whitey battery, I’m gonna be one pissed off Giants fan.
- Flavor said, on July 17, 2012 at 8:29 pm
  
  Why? Any Zito start, whether it’s a boon or a bust, is riveting theater. Who gives a shit who’s catching him?
Macdog said, on July 17, 2012 at 8:36 pm

It’d be just my luck of getting to two Giants games all season and Whitey plays in one of them.
- Flavor said, on July 17, 2012 at 8:40 pm
  
  Mac, I don’t know what it’s like to live in another area and catch a Giants game, but I’m *guessing* that it’s all-good no matter what happens. Don’t you just wake up with a stupid grin on your face and not take it off till you hit the sack that night?
  - Macdog said, on July 17, 2012 at 9:37 pm
    
    Ha-ha, Flav, you’re right as always.
blade3colorado said, on July 17, 2012 at 8:45 pm

Flav, you and other Fantasy League players know this . . . not certain about others – Catcher is one of those positions where there are very few “tier one” outstanding players. Quite frankly, even the ones that were supposed to be good this year, fell on their faces, e.g., Santana, Napoli, etc. My point is that there are EVEN LESS satisfactory to good second string catchers and most teams only have a serviceable first string catcher . . . then there is a big, big fall off. Not all teams, but most. We are fortunate to have someone as good as Buster starting. Most teams don’t even have that.
- Flavor said, on July 17, 2012 at 8:55 pm
  
  check out my 8% owned catcher, Doumit. I picked him up a month ago in the Flap (because he’s my 2nd catcher in all my NFBC leagues) and he’s hitting .366 over the last month.
  I don’t really give a shit what type of production I get from my catcher (If it’s not Mauer or Buster or Ruiz, etc). I just don’t want them fucking up my batting average. Though Doumit isn’t playing every day, he’s doing exactly what I need.
  By the way, have you noticed that I’m starting to rev up in our league?
  162 games baby, I don’t give up till the end……..
  - blade3colorado said, on July 17, 2012 at 8:57 pm
    
    That’s why I only play with the best. 🙂
    
    Pssst . . . Speak to Chuck and the other laggards.
  - blade3colorado said, on July 17, 2012 at 9:04 pm
    
    Also, my 99.9% catcher, the aforementioned Carlos Santana, is no longer an anchor around my neck thanks to Kevin trading me Ruiz. Grin.
snarkk said, on July 17, 2012 at 8:55 pm

I contend the key play in tonight’s game was Zito’s “hit” early to left, where he chopped his usual grounder towards left and Chipper bent down to get it like Walter Brennan, and whiffed on it. That opened the floodgates. Chipper can still swing the stick, but he’s definitely 40 when it comes to fielding…
- Flavor said, on July 17, 2012 at 8:58 pm
  
  that was big at the time but this was an across the board ass-whooping. The Braves didn’t show up ready to play tonight, not sure why……..
- unca_chuck said, on July 17, 2012 at 9:00 pm
  
  Also Jerrjins getting to the bag late and missing 1st base . . .
- blade3colorado said, on July 17, 2012 at 9:01 pm
  
  That’s what pisses me off about being in Colorado. I figuratively “roll the dice” each night hoping that the game will be on the pc . . . More times than not this year, my “connection” doesn’t have the game on (probably because the FCC is after him. HA!). Anywho, my point is that I miss these nuggets that you just described snarkk, about Chipper’s fielding; and what Flav described about Axford last night. Not the same as watching words and numbers scroll across the browser dialog box. Sigh.
- unca_chuck said, on July 17, 2012 at 9:02 pm
  
  Yeah, he looked like Vlad Guerrero out there.
snarkk said, on July 17, 2012 at 9:01 pm

Belt’s definitely got his dauber down. I would not be surprised at all next year if the Giants move Buster to first and put Hector permanently as the starting C, and bring up Joseph, if he continues to progress at AA. They still have Susac coming up through the system in reserve. With an organization full of good, young catchers at various levels, it makes sense that they use them all to either play or as trade bait. I think they will become convinced after this season that Buster’s value as a hitter is enhanced big time if he does not catch much, or at all, especially since he is a RH 1Bman where HR power to LF at ATT is good, and considering they have catchers out the wazoo in the system…
unca_chuck said, on July 17, 2012 at 9:05 pm

I don’t see that happening at all, Snarkk. Buster is a pretty lousy 1st baseman. They’d more likely trade their prospects from someone.
- blade3colorado said, on July 17, 2012 at 9:07 pm
  
  Agree with Chuck. Again, catcher is a thin position. Buster as a catcher is gold . . . As a 1st baseman? He is less than fool’s gold.
  - snarkk said, on July 17, 2012 at 9:11 pm
    
    How is catcher thin? SF has one of the best minor league catching corps in baseball…
  - blade3colorado said, on July 17, 2012 at 9:14 pm
    
    lqtm . . . Umm, perhaps that is true.
  - Flavor said, on July 17, 2012 at 9:16 pm
    
    He’s talking about in all of baseball
- unca_chuck said, on July 17, 2012 at 9:18 pm
  
  *for*
ewisco said, on July 17, 2012 at 9:08 pm

I’ve been a zito apologist for just about forever. i think twin can back me on this. what i’m seeing this year that i haven’t in previous is this little slider/slurve/curve thing. he’s throwing it for strikes and people are looking at it. more importantly, they’re looking at something right over the plate and not swinging, meaning that they’re looking for the little slurvy thing. I don’t remember which percent i’m in, i think i’m the 87% but i didn’t see this coming. i think twin has cautioned us that one half does not a successful zito make. but he surely looks just a little different this year.

that being said i’ve now made him bomb his next start and we’ll be back to the “can you curse them by saying it” thread.

perfect game, perfect game!
twinfan1 said, on July 17, 2012 at 9:15 pm

At this stage, if both of our problem children pitch well, they could call Chuck up to catch- they’ll win the division in Secretariat fashion.
blade3colorado said, on July 17, 2012 at 9:18 pm

Well, past my bed time in Colorado – Good night everyone.