Baseball: Routines, Rituals and–Magic
Bruce Bochy said Tim Lincecum will pitch as scheduled Sunday and that Hector Sanchez will catch him which means Sanchez will catch Lincecum in the post season as well.
The thought, the very *thought* of the potential NL MVP and probable batting title winner in only 50% of the post season games. At least as catcher. HOLY SHIT!!
A lot has been discussed here, mostly vitriolically negative, about putting Posey at first or sitting him when Lincecum and Zito pitch and having Sanchez behind the dish. Common sense rationales for this move have been offered (Lincecum’s erratic/jazzy style is too much punishment on a catcher of Posey’s value and still healing body), excuses have been put forth (Sanchez needs playing time and, hell, it’s not like he’s hitting the Mendoza line) conflicted personalities have been entertained (Posey=Jimmy Stewart/Lincecum=Keith Moon) and, of course, solutions have been delicately proposed (TIMMY AND BUBBLES NEED TO JUST FUCKING MAN UP!!!).
I’ve been pretty neutral myself. Yes, replacing Belt at 1st with Posey and putting him in left takes away our best defense situation. But I see Sanchez playing like a major leaguer. Look at his B/A, his putout AVG and he certainly isn’t losing any games for the Giants. Look at the Zito/Giants record in his last 10 starts as was brought up in the thread yesterday and up till his last start’s brain fart, Lincecum’s looked good since the AS break and mostly who the hell am I to question Bochy?
But another thing, and I’m not sure about Zito, but if I recall Posey *was* catching Lincecum when the season started. Up to about mid-June and Lincecum…sucked. Always on baseball teams when something doesn’t seem to be working they shake things up a little bit and that’s when the whole Sanchez thing started. It didn’t work any miracles at first but as noted since the AS break, it seemed to smooth its way out pretty good so maybe Bochy just doesn’t want to mess with any mojo. Remember, baseball is a hugely uncertain sport from pitch to pitch for everyone involved and therefore hugely superstitious. I read an article by George Gmelch on this subject talking about the famous routines of the past (Boggs and his chicken diet, Glenn Davis chewing the same piece of gum during a hitting streak, Turk Wendell wearing a necklace of teeth from animals he’d killed). Hell, even in 2010 Huff had his rally thong and Wilson and Romo with the beards. There’s the taboos (never saying “no-hitter”), the “lucky” numbers (when Ricky Henderson came to the Blue Jays he paid Turner Ward $25,000 for the right to wear #24).
So as illogical and unscientific as it is and as dull and pragmatic as Bochy always appears, there’s as good a chance as any that he’s just being superstitious on this matter. It might be something just that silly. The Magic What Is Baseball.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDZFf0pm0SE
And lest we forget–FLAPALOOZA 2.0 TONIGHT!!!
Be there or be square. Me? I can be neither, either or both. Go figure.
A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball 
So I’ve done a bit of an about face on this topic. Previously, I’ve felt, like most fans, that we’re better with Buster catching and Belt at first base. Posey is a better catcher than Hector, he’s a better hitter and Belt is a better fist baseman than Posey and *whoever* in LF is a better left fielder than Belt….
But Ted, you bring up an excellent point. First off, the “Giants have won Zito’s last 10 starts” is the end of that conversation. Hector HAS to be catching Zito. The reasons don’t make sense. The Giants have won the last 10 Barry Zito starts…..
Timmy has had a much better 2nd half than first half. His pre-all star break ERA was 6.42. Since then it’s been 3.67.
Because I didn’t have to do much this morning since Ted wrote this awesome thread, I decided to go through each of Timmy’s starts and see who caught him. Posey caught him almost exclusively until 6/22 (to be discussed shortly). Hector caught him in his 2nd start of the year (a loss).
But Hector got the start on 6/22 and Timmy got a no-decision. But that was the game where the Giants scored 4 runs in the 9th to beat the A’s. I’m wondering if Bochy saw that as some kind of *good luck* thing? Hector got the following start on 6/27 and Timmy got the win. That was followed up by three more Hector starts that resulted in 2 losses and a no decision. Since then, Hector has caught him 9 more times with Timmy getting 5 wins, 3 losses and a no decision.
Buster has caught him two times in the 2nd half: a win on 7/31 and a loss on August 15th.
Whitey caught him twice in July and Timmy got a W and a L.
Timmy’s record with Hector is 6 wins, 6 losses and 3 no decisions.
Timmy’s record with Buster is 3 wins, 9 losses and 3 no decisions.
Bottom line: The Giants are winning more games with the way things are now than if Buster were catching these 2 guys full time. There’s no way Buster would have done better than 10-0 with ZIto over the last 10 starts and while Hector’s 6 wins/6losses is no great shakes, it’s miles better than BUster’s 3/9 with Timmy. It is clear though, that 6/22 was the date things started to change behind the dish…….
Plus, Buster is hitting .372 when he plays first base this year and I think there has to be something said for the wear and tear on his legs by getting him close to 100 at bats this year at 1B.
So to sum up my thoughts, I’m ok with Hector catching, Buster at first base and Belt in LF vs right handers (and night games) 🙂 ). It’s been working for months. Why fuck with it now?
I sent you an email Flav.
Thanks for the in-depth analysis, BF. I had been of the “TIMMY AND BUBBLES NEED TO JUST FUCKING MAN UP!!!” camp of late, but after reading your post, I agree…why fuck with something that is working better than the alternative that I thought was better. Giddy-up and keep on keepin’ on! Bottom line is if the Giants win…I could give a fuck.
Even in 2010 there were rumblings about chemistry btw Lincecum and Posey, and TL spoke glowingly of Molina being a big part of Cy years. For whatever reason they just don’t click, and I think bochy/rags feel there is a better chance they get lincecum’s best effort with Hector.
I don’t make anything out of Posey numbers at 1b–second half he’s lit up the entire world, and I would assume majority of the time he has been at 1b it would have been vs. LHP which he also rakes. He’s hitting .330 and leading the freaking league and could probably do it if he was in LF and Belt at 1b.
Posey is of couse being the good soldier and absolutely would not say anything for publication but it has to bug him. And I think that will definitely be a factor that will make mgmt. not averse to trading TL in near future.
Timmy is already signed for 22.25 mil next year, and is then a FA in 2014. With the year he has had this year, I see no way in hell he is “trade-able.” Will be interesting to see how the whole Tim thing shakes, but I don’t see a trade being a part of what happens.
I’m sure this wasn’t done lightly either, because I think Jenkins mentioned this—media will be all over it during post season, guaranteed. Giants will have some splainin to do, in front of everyone, as to why the LU is different. Would bochy not play Belt vs. LHP and put Nady in LF with Tim/zito on the mound?
I’ve thought about rotation, and IF Cain and Bum went at home, then I would assume TL would get game 3 on the road. If SF was up 2-0 he would have chance to clinch and get some cred back; if series was 1-1 that would be the swing game with all the momentum and maybe single most imp game of the season up to then. Lincecum better be up to it or he is setting himself up for ton of shit.
If it makes that much difference for Tim, it overrides the bit of defense they lose. I wish they could work it out, but if it means a well pitched game, that’s more important. Giving Buster a break from catching couldn’t hurt. I’m not losing sleep over it.
Don’t know if there are others, but Maddux wouldn’t work with Javy Lopez all those years in Atl. Had people scratching their heads. Javy had 34hrs and 106 Rbi’s in 1998 and who was catching Maddux in the postseason? Backup Eddie Perez..
And Javy didn’t play 1b either.
This may be way out in left field (no pun intended), but would it be safe to say that the whole Buster/Timmy thing might be due to Timmy being a bit jealous of Buster’s success to date since he came up in 2010, and that Posey is the anointed face of the franchise? I know the stats don’t lie, but it makes you wonder.
I think Bochy has a lot to do with this. Remember, on 6/22 Hector started catching Timmy again (first time since 2nd gm of season) and it was a no decision– but that gm was epic and I think Bochy went with Hector again in Tim’s next start partly due to superstition or whatever you want to call it. He’s basically been catching him ever since 6/22 (except for a couple Posey/whitey appearances).
According to media guys, Timmy and Buster get along fine in the clubhouse, often seen together watching a gm on the couch. I think One of the Merc blog guys said he’s seen them laughing it up together many times.
More likely it’s stupid player superstition.
Recall Timmy talking in Spring Training about how important it was having Buster back and what he meant, inferring that his 2011 was not as good because he missed Posey. Then the rough start and..suddenly the problem is Buster? Please.
I didn’t say Buster was the problem.
I wasn’t saying you were, Demp. I’m talking about Tim suggesting Buster is the problem.
Problems? What problems? Bochy knows best.
fuckiing a
I need another you tube song Mr.Ted
God Bless You
Ashkon should parody this song for 2012
I’m going to try to man up for tomorrow’s Post-Flapalooza post but maybe one of you sober east coasters should keep an eye out and be ready to pinch hit. I’ll trade you. Looking forward to seeing some of you knuckleheads.
Absolutely. It promises to be one of the great social events of the year!
Scott and Zelda just RSVP’d when they heard Thurston Howell the III was coming
I can go into numbers later but here’s an irrefutable bottom line- Posey is a better catcher than Hector, Belt is a better first first baseman than Posey. Both are better hitters than Hector. Ergo: Buster catches, Belt play first base, Hector sits. If Timmy is the problem, he can sit, too…doing whatever he was doing when his teammates were celebrating the division win. Vogelsong appears back on track, he’ll be happy to throw to Posey, Whitey, Whitey’s sister… anyone.
Concise, factual, well thought out, prudent, logical, sensible and–ain’t gonna happen
Baseball is superstition…magic
No, it won’t happen. We saw Brandon in LF- it speaks volumes to the lie about “no rift” that Bochy would even consider a LU that would weaken us defensively at 3 positions.
good answer,
here we go into the post season. Somebody better get busy on this team.
Cause we love them.
Go Giants!
The first two games that Hector took over, Tim had a good effort against the A’s and a 7 inning shutout against the Dodgers, the series where everyone shut them out. Then, with Hector catching, he had two of his worst starts of the year- giving up 7 and 6 earned runs against Washington and Pittsburgh in 3.1 innings each.
Then came the All-Star break, and he’d been better since then, until his last start. There is zero way to support that his second half improvement had anything to do with Hector.
Ted
flapooluza, baby
the freaking internet,
bring it on
I’m going to tweet out a fair number of Flapalooza pics during the evening so if you care about such things you might want to “follow” me on twitter. There’s a link to hit over on the right side near the “one tweet down” widget. I had hoped to get the new iPhone 5 by today but I haven’t had time yet so the pics won’t be as crisp had I not procrastinated that AT&T visit……..
Maybe they used Apple Maps to find your address, thus the delay in the iPhone 5. 🙂
Wishing a great time for all at Flapalooza..
Twin, I don’t doubt for a second Posey’s superiority > Hector at catcher or Belt’s superiority > Buster at first base. I just think Bochy likes the fact that the team wins so many games when Hector is catching Timmy and Zito. And I think there might be something to what I already said above, that Bochy might buy into the superstition thing a little bit, too. Hector started getting almost all the Timmy starts right after that epic comeback vs the A’s on 6/22.
Officially, Bochy saying it’s all really his idea and Linecum had no input. Bruce just “likes the way it’s been going”. Whatever.
well it’s kinda hard to argue with that, isn’t it? 10 straight Zito start wins plus 6-3 (with 1 ND) in Hector’s last 10 starts with Timmy. They’re winning a shit load of games doing it this way.
Then I guess it’s what I knew all along anyway-I’m smarter than Bochy 😉 I already tried a witch doctor and she was cooking up crack in her van. Anyway- we’ve praised Bochy foor his postseason magic- that will take a huge hit if/when we lose a game or series because of poor defense. And how much of an overall upgrade is Hector instead of either of the left fielders? I’d say minimal if at all. I want Blanco out there when balls are being crushed to left off of Tim and Zito…
I think I showed the run support in those 10 starts. And it absolutely can be argued that Tim’s second half has nothing to do with Hector. And, BTW, of those 10 straight wins with Zito pitching, Posey caught 5 of them.
Hey Flav, I sending an Email to try and test out this skype thing.
just hit me with your skype screen name, I think I can find you that way
and I now see you’ve already done that.
There’s a good article in the Chronicle today about the Giants success in hitting with runners in scoring position in the second half of the season. No major revelations in the article; but it does point to a clubhouse meeting Bochy had with the hitters before a mid-season series with Colorado, and I guess Bochy more or less challenged the hitters’ manhood, and they responded to the challenge. They went on to trounce Colorado, and have been one of the best RISP-hitting teams in MLB since.
I don’t always agree with Bochy’s decisions, but clearly he has his team’s full respect, and they respond to his challenging them.
To reiterate- Giants have not lost in Zito’s last ten starts, 5 of which Buster caught, 5 Hector. I’m going out on a limb and guessing that the 64 runs we scored might have more to do with the 10 wins than who caught him.
Well, if you want to get all “down to earth” and shit.
But there’s no magic in that
Your’re right, Ted. And I don’t want to argue with Craig on his Flapalooza Weekend. Kinda ticks me off, though. I was saying Hector would make the team before Bochy was saying Hector would make the team. Have I been hoisted on my own petard? .
I actually hadn’t checked to see who caught Zito in his last 10, I just assumed it was Hdctor. My mistake for sure.
You know, we’re all looking at this as all good for Hector, but think about it- not only are they saying it’s OK for him to get all beat up by Tim’s bouncerinos, they’ve also told Buster not to block the plate or he might get maimed or killed or something…. But it’s OK for Hector.If I’m Hector’s agent I’m like: “So my guy is catching your two CY winners and you don’t give a shit if Prince Fielder plants him under the batter’s box? Show me the money… ;- )
You know?Baseball has just reminded me of how blind I am.
Games are great. Teams take me to new hights.. But todays game olny really has meaning once it is done.
God, how much I love today’s game.
How much I love to play the game.
But heere there is the magic of baseballl.That moment of looking back on a game.
Remembering.
How you felt, how it makes you feel.
Only then can the game take hold
only then do you love and understand that baseball is ,much more that a game.
It is a way of life. One day at a time. One strike. One hit. One day
BTW I am up rfor a tweet, skypr, google vidio chat, what ever
email me your skype name
BTW, have you seen me on video? Not a pretty sight
but I am still here
Oh, in case we need to find each other my name is eddacker, pretty much everywhere. Except Yahooo where I am the orb of wisdom.
Because I love Orbs, and, well, you know
Because I got that name back when there were like 12 yaoo names. Maybe I clould seel it?
Except that reeminds of the guy who asked me Wwho in the fuck would want that name?”
Next year stick Buster in Left and we’ll have an AS LFer again OR put the Panda in Left and Posey at Third..
Before you say it Unca, yes I believe either Pablo or Buster could do well in Left. Although, I like Posey at Third as far as an easier switch for him. Sandoval could cover Left well with the right positioning (IMO). The only weird thing to me would be switching the positions of two All Stars. Hector is getting a crash course in Catching this year, so I think he’d be fine starting (hell two out of five starters already want him to catch).
Well, I think one of the big changes in the favor of things like that is we used to say that Posey’s batting numbers were only real good for a catcher, and that isn’t true anymore. Those numbers are good at any position.
You know, really I can get anywhere, except fotr last week, when I was offline for a coupke of days. A nice time was had by all.
Ed, get back on your feet, you’re the one they can’t beat, and you know it
And you’re fooling yourself if you don’t believe it.
Your future looks quite bright to me.
And yes, I’m randomly quoting a Styx song.
Many think that the Native Americans were the first to skype their foes who had fallen in battle, but the truth is the White Man used to skype before that. It’s one of the lesser known facts of history.
You know Z, that reminds me of that old Abe Lincoln quote “You can’t always believe what you read on the internet”.
September production. Runs, RBI, HR through now. Rest of numbers are going into tonight.
Regulars only:
Posey 17 R 4 Hr 18 RBI .358 BA .999 OPS
Belt 11 R 3 HR 15 RBI .314 BA .926 OPS
Crawford 13 R 0 HR 4 RBI .288 BA .787 OPS
Sandoval 12 R 4 HR 17 RBI .297 BA .845 OPS
Pagan 19 R 0 HR 6 RBI .282 BA .777 OPS
Pence 12 R 4 HR 21 RBI .216 BA .702 OPS
Scutaro 22 R 1 HR 21 RBI .408 BA .955 OPS
Does that include Hunter’s HR in the first?
Yes. So if the question was who would step up in September, the answer is everybody…
Tweeting out some pics right now–you can click on them to the right “onetweetdown”…
I look like I’m 3,000 miles away.
Cheers all.
Damn!
Fuck. 5-3 Pads. Shut these dudes down and bring out the ol’ kick ass stick.
sent you a pic, Craig Just me.
I’m not *that* ugly.
Well, I have never been a pretty boy.but the camera adds an ugly. I gross myself out
Looks like I missed a big Hunter Pence moment. But I did get to see NO WHITEY. hehe
Or..
Oh well…left at 5-3 for a dip in the hot tub…and a little somethin’-somethin’afterwards…looks like I didn’t miss a damn thing…except maybe some exquisite Flapper posts! 😉
And on that note…Fuck the Padres…
Let me think, you live in the foothills, you’re having a hot tub and you are a Giants fan.
shit, I’d fuck ya.
Well, goodnight. Hope you all had a nice time.
Yeah, I think my team are the champions. And in fine style.
Well, we are 0-2 on Flapalooza’s whether they be named “Number 1”, “2.0” or “A Bunch of Drunk Flappers” (which is a condition that only affected a few of us)….
But still…. 0-2 in Flapalooza events………
Might wanna shake it up next year…….
Massive kudos to me (why not?), Blade, Ewisco, WillieD, Snarkk, Ted and Bozo for setting up a schmorgesborg of props to entertain us on skype and Pawlie who took time out from his busy day of snapping pics with Tampa hotties to check in with us as well…..
And Twin for checking in, too…….
And to all, a good night……..
Regardless of the 0-2 on the Flapaloozas….hope you guys had a good time. I will definitely make it next year.
Time the for the Orange and Black to bounce-back tomorrow and win the series. Then it is off to The Latrine to open some whoop-ass on the Bums. What a way to end the season and prime for a playoff push!
‘Night Flappers…
BTW…great picts from tonight…
Hope everyone had fun tonight. I lost my stupid glasses, which I use for driving, so I won’t be making any trips after dark for a bit. Gah! Take care everybody, and we’ll get ’em tomorrow!
Great Flapalooza!
It was fantastic meeting WillieD, BF, Ewisco, Blade (again), and the irrepressible TedSpe, who does the greatest impression of Richard Burton since, well, Burton himself as he played George to Martha in the unforgettable “Who’s Afraid of Johnnie Lemaster” opposite Gary Thomasson.
Tonight reminded my of a favorite Doors song — Not to be sung with their lyrics, but these.
http://tinyurl.com/6zn78a
Giants in the streets, they’re up to my ankles,
Giants in the streets they’re up past my toes;
Giants in the streets, the town of Los Altos.
Giants on the rise, it’s following me.
Just about the break of midnight, it’s Flapalooza…
They came, then they drove to the title,
Sunlight in their smiles.
Giants on the streets,runs a river of gladness.
Giants in the streets, it’s up to my thigh.
The team runs down the legs of the city;
The women are smiling; orange rivers of laughter.
Giants in the streets of the city of St. Francis
Giants stains the roofs and the palm trees of the City of Angels.
Giants ARE our love in the lateness of summer;
Giants orange sun in the boob fatalistic L.A.
Giants screams her brain as they chop off her curlers.
Giants will be born in the birth of a nation;
Giants is the rose of mysterious Flapnation….
Nice
Looks like the Giants are going to have to spoil the Bums chances of crashing the playoff party. Cards can’t close the deal.
Great flappin’ FLAPAOOZA tonight!!
It was such a freaking trip to actually meet Flav, Blade, Snarkk WillieD and Ewisco. Mofos looked nothing as I thought they would though.
It’s just so weird that each and every one looks exactly like Tony Curtis circa 1955.
😉
Here’s the thing though. I mentioned I have no sense of directions, right? So I left s.f. around 3:30pm. After asking 3 to 5 people who actually lived in town and had no idea where it was, I got there around 6pm out of pure luck and osmosis.
Then I was going home. After about 45 minutes driving around I finally pulled over to a lady walking her dog. “Uhm..” I asked–What City am I in right now? She replied “San Jose”
I swear to God, if she looked even remotely like Dionne Warwicke–I would have went–amok. So, I asked her how to get back to S.F. She gave me directions–and they were wrong. After another 45 minutes driving adrift, I pulled into a gas station. I asked the dude–What City am I in right now? He replied “San Jose”
However, he told me how to get to 280 and I finally got home–around midnight.
It took me this long to just settle enough to rant about my fucking commute.
But again–FLAPALOOZA was a success. Skyped Pawlie and Bozo as well.
Good times!!!
But next year?
San Francisco
FOR GOD’S SAKE!!
Good morning, gentlemen (question mark)
Missed you guys and Girls. Is this a great team or what?
new thread
Did some one say new thread?