Bochy Finishes Third in MOY
I think we can all agree that a third place finisher for the best manager in the game is a joke. I can marginally get behind Johnson winning it. Barely marginally. He did have to keep a young team who’d never been in a stretch drive before cobbled together while losing his best starting pitcher in September. Off the top of my head they had to deal with one significant injury–Werth. I wouldn’t call the injury to Storen *significant* because Clippard is a better closer anyway. To me, The Nationals were like a young 2 year old who shook free on the lead and keep going because they didn’t really know any better and they put up a couple of soft early fractions. But like I said, Johnson held them all together good enough.
Dusty Baker finishing in front of Bochy is an utter joke. They lost Madson before the season started but I can’t imagine that he would have been better than Chapman. And Votto was limpy most of the year. But I don’t see any other obstacles that Baker had to manage around. He had a very good team that performed as expected and they won 97 games. Am I missing something here? What other adversity did Baker manage through?
Now let’s take a look at Bochy (and all of this is me just free-stylin’ off the top of me dome):
1) He had to manage the delicate case of Buster returning from a horrific injury. I think everyone agrees that the 100 or so at bats he got him at first base was critical to keeping him fresh enough to play in 148 games in 2012, about 30 more than the Giants had hoped he would play in before the season started.
2) He had to deal with nearly an entire year of his ace doing his best Pre-2012 Zito impression.
3) He lost his best hitter and all star LF amid great scandal and holding the team together and pushing the right buttons from then on must have been unbelievably tricky.
4) He lost his all star closer 10 games into the season and yet knew exactly how far to roll with Casilla before deftly going to BBC and having it actually work— I commented as the season was ending, i can’t ever remember a BBC work successfully for a winning team (post 1990 or so). Think about the number of decisions a manager has to make when using the BBC–and the number of bad decisions he COULD make. And compare that to the brain dead manager who just goes 7th/8th/closer over and over and over and over…….
5) He lost his all star 3rd baseman to 2 injuries (cost him about 50 games) and dealt with a tricky off field issue that could have blown up much bigger than it did.
6) there are probably another 3 or 4 issues that Bochy managed through that were more difficult than Baker had to deal with but they aren’t coming to me right now…..
I have always felt that the MOY vote should occur AFTER the playoffs have concluded. Player stats are fairly easy to translate and cast your vote based on what you see in the boxscores. But knowing the value of a manager is much trickier. You have to watch them manage every day and know the obstacles that they are facing over the course of a season. And no one watches a team play every day except the people and the fans associated with the team.
The playoffs are the MOST IMPORTANT games of the year. Pressing the right buttons as a manager during the playoffs is more critical and harder to do than during the regular season. Plus, those who vote on the award are presumably actually watching the games in the playoffs. Only then do I think a voter is qualified enough to vote on MOY…….
Bochy has been a HOF manager in his last 2 post seasons. He should have won the award both years just off what he did in the playoffs. But oops, the votes were already cast. You can’t tell me that most of the voters who cast their vote for Baker or Johnson didn’t wish they had a do-over after watching how Bochy managed the team to another world series win in 2012. The work he did in the playoffs SHOULD matter. Whatever, he’s probably on his boat fishing somewhere right now not giving a shit about the results of that vote……
A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball 
Everything you said Flav, I’m on board with. Actually, I will go further with regard to ALL awards – they should all be decided after the END of the season, including PLAYOFFS. For example, although I had Trout winning the MVP award, dollars to donuts, he doesn’t get the award because Cabrera won the Triple Crown. Big fucking deal. In just about every respect, Trout is the better player. Fast forward to the World Series, Cabrera flopped in the biggest “Show on Earth.” I get it that we don’t know if Trout would have done the same thing, but tough cheese, I just think it’s stupid to hand out awards before the playoffs are over.
By the by, I just read JBat’s POTD . . . Excellent my man! I agree with what you said about Affeldt and I loved this line, “. . . a 4 pitch K of Fielder with one breaking ball just jelly-legged big Prince then blowing a heater by him . . .”
“Jelly Legged?” Hilarious. I hope that isn’t copy righted, because that’s my new “put down” I will test out in Fantasy League basketball. I’m guessing that line works across all sports, e.g., “Lebron slam dunked on Kobe and left him Jelly legged.” HA! 🙂
Didn’t Baker have a heart attack and mini stroke or some other medical issues?
yes, at the very end of September. Hardly something to give him MOY for. In fact, his players playing through that are the ones that actually dealt with it.
I think he may have gotten some sympathy vote from that. Not saying I agree. I don’t know how Bochy didn’t win this year. He was plainly most deserving. East coast bias.
Hard to believe anyone would disagree with who really deserves MOY after post season, just on pen mgmt alone. Gibson won it last year, and you knew that was a joke. Johnson I’ll reserve judgement on to see if he can keep his team on top. the whole stras thing stinks, and what he said about it was total BS.
Even reg season Bochy had so many more issues to navigate through, including all the new guys he had to incorporate into the LU, the young guys Belt and Crawford, and how to use his back ups like arias blanco and Hector, plus the whole Huff issue. 2012 was a way different group from even 2011, let alone 2010, and he managed them differently too.
My godson from SD is going to be up here next week. As a kid he wore Clark and Bonds stuff, but now he has turned his back on SF and is all in on the Pads and Black. I gotta wonder what Pads fans feel NOW about shoving bochy out the door after he’d got them to playoffs a couple times. Might be a long while before that happens again. Meanwhile, I’m shoving parade pics in his face, again.
Thank that arrogant prick Sandy Alderson for gifting us the best mgr in the game.
Excellent thread, Flav. And I agree whole-heartedly. I also agree with Steve re: ALL awards should be voted-on/determined AFTER all the playoff/World Series games are complete.
I went back and read the posts from yesterday that I had missed. I was on-board with Affeldt since the season ended (along with Blade and Twin), and I did say I thought two years would be ideal, but if three is what it takes, then giddy up…you HAVE TO resign the guy. WTF…it isn’t my money, and Charles Johnson (our principal owner at 25% is the richest damned dude in the game).
Loved the link you posted on salaries/value, Blade. I threw a couple names in there. Some no surprise, others somewhat so.
Zito (should have expected this): 15.3% of salary. Value = – 0.91
Scoots: 1.89/6.36
Belt: .39/8.18
Crawford: .39/6.97
Also enjoyed the article from Fangraphs…thanks, Michael. I threw-out a 3 year 25-27 suggestion yesterday, and have also mentioned that I didn’t think a three year offer would seal the deal. I thought three should be the end of the line, but after reading the article, and some of yesterday’s posts that I had missed, I am down with 4. He made less than 5 last year, so how would 4 at 36 work? Anyway, if Sabes is confident he brings all of them back, I am down with that.
I can see how many would vote for Davey Johnson. And yeah, I may be a bit biased, but I am also someone who watched damned-near EVERY fucking Giants game, and agree that Bochy dealt with a ton of adversity.
Mac – to answer your question from yesterday…yes, Johnny B. did experience an irregular heartbeat, and then while being discharged for that, suffered what was termed a “mini stroke.”
Fuck I miss baseball. It’s going to be a long winter.
I agree that Boch should have been MOY but like he said “It’s all about the ring, trust me,” he said. “It was a great year for baseball and, in particular, for the San Francisco Giants. It was just an unbelievable year. We got what we wanted. I’m in a real good place.”
I don’t remember all the injuries on the Nats but at the start of the year it seemed like a bunch. Besides Werth, I think Morse went down for a considerable time, Desmond for awhile and I think they lost their catcher (who I’m sure had some issues after being kidnapped in the winter). So I’m OK with Johnson winning the award but I sure wouldn’t trade Bochy for him and I agree with him “It’s all about the ring”.
According to Henry in the Chron today, “Angel Pagan….is not expected to sign quickly as he sorts through several offers. The giants have checked on other FA CFs, including Torii Hunter and Shane Victorino, as insurance.”
Arggh! I realize it’s only november and Pagan has every right to carefully examine all options for yrs/bread, but…..SF I’m sure will make a competitive offer, and ultimately it has to come down to where you want to play and what you want to do, like say *win*. SF has to be a great place to play, full every day and night with enthusiastic fans and a strong latin presence on the team. Mgmt and coaching staff are excellent with 2 titles in 3 yrs with diverse groups. Getting to playoffs and winning them provides a hell of a nice bonus at the end of the year too. Isn’t the goal of every single player in any major sport to win championships? Why would you walk away from that and the guys that made it happen?
For whatever he makes I’m sure Pagan can live pretty well in off season when he goes home to P-R, and he’s not a selfish one dimensional ingrate like Soriano of Cubs. So what is not to like about SF, team city and extended bay area fanbase?
The Reds and Braves I think are the primary bidders for Pagan (however, there might be more out there that I am not aware of). Regarding the Reds, they don’t have much salary room/money to play with, as I pointed out yesterday. The Braves are a conservative club and don’t throw around money like it’s growing on trees. Consequently, I agree (with Willie) that the Giants will have a competitive bid on the table and it will come down to where he wants to play, as well as who he wants to play for – the World Series Champ or one of the “also rans.” 🙂
I also think that any contract will be 4 years or will have the 4th year as an option.
Well, he wasn’t going to win it, that was a no-brainer. Did he deserve to? Well, I disagree that the postseason should count. A manager whose team didn’t make the postseason can definitely have done a better job than one whose team made it, and that’s happened quite often,IMO. He should not be penalized for not having the opportunity to show his chops in the playoffs. If the playoffs were included there would be no reason to have the MOY, IMO. The WS winning Manager should get it, no reason for a vote. Once the playoff teams are established, they’re all good teams. You’re the MOY if you win…
Did he deserve it based on the regular season? Payroll is a factor, Reds and Nats had about 70 percent of ours. Preseason expectations play a part. Looking at a couple dozen ESPN contributor’s calls, the Reds and Giants had about equal expectations, Nats were picked to be better but had virtually zero support for their division.
Then there’s what the guy overcame to deserve consideration. I agree that Bochy overcame much more than Baker, whose main issues were what Flavor noted- Madson and Votto.
Frankly, I think Bochy suffers from the same misperception that he did among fans in the Bay Area- his communication skills are not the best and he just doesn’t come as smart as he really is. He is not a better manager now than he was in 2008, but he’s become appreciated more by the fans as they’ve had the opportunity to see him with a decent team. Nationwide I think he’s still seen as a plodding guy, a good pen manager, but overall somewhat of a dullard.
Bottom line: should have been Johnson, Bochy, Baker. IMO. Only one of those guys is basking, however.
Good points, and I can see your point on the awards being decided BEFORE the playoffs.
“Freesttylin’ off the top of me dome”? Flav, you been hanging around Eddddddddd a little too long!
But yeah, I agree. I figured it would come down to Johnson and Bochy. Baker? Uh, no. Cincy cruised through their season with little drama or injury. Johnson had a lot of shit to deal with. The zillion dollar man Werth went down after playing real shitty to start the year was only one of many early injuries. The whole Strasburgh deal he had to manage through. Although how he didn’t foresee that becoming an issue down the stretch is hard to fathom. So, that’s more a diss if anything. Unless the owner said ‘no way no how no matter what’ to DJ about his playing time. The Braves did it right. Why couldn’t they? It’s ludicrous that they pitched Strass to his arbitrarily imposed limit as fast as they could, and then shut him down.
So, yeah. Bochy should have won it.
Twin, I’m just saying that how a manager manages in the playoffs should count for something. If a voter is undecided between Johnson and Bochy going into the playoffs then how they manage the post season might tip them way way or the other. If a voter was undecided between Bochy and, say Mattingly (who didn’t make the playoffs) that’s tough shit for Mattingly. Or, maybe Bochy mishandles and mismanages the post season and the voter decided to give it to Mattingly based on that.
Again, if the voters watched ALL of the regular season games I feel like they’d be qualified to vote on MOY. And you have to assume they are watching the playoff games but not all of the regular season games.
Winning the world series MAY be a reflection on how good the manager managed–or maybe it was just a dominant team who cruised to a win (ie, any number of guys could have managed them to the title). In that case, the guy wouldn’t get my vote, if I had one.
But I would want the post season to help determine my decision one way or the other— it’s a chance to watch a manager on the biggest stage with the littlest margin for error either shine or fail.
It’s really not an issue that I’m terribly concerned about. As we all acknowledge, Bochy has the ring, Maybe Baker’s mini-stroke gsve him the second place edge. When MOY came up earlier, I thought Bochy would need a serious family or health issue to take it. Hell, a two week absence because of anxiety attacks and he wins in a landslide 😉
BTW,Bay Area Sports Guy claims that Greg Papa has said on his radio show that Smith’s concussion was “karmic retribution” for John Harbaugh’s Raven team running the fake FG up 24 against the Raiders.
http://tinyurl.com/azz2n8u
Papa’s the biggest ass-clown in Bay Area media.
No offense Bozo!
Yeah, I would think that if you GET to the playoffs, it should be part of the determination of MOY. Not the deciding factor, but certainly part of the discussion. How Bochy handled the rotation through the playoffs was damn near perfect, even with Bummie’s and Timmy’s ill-fated playoff starts. Some of it was luck, but having 2 lefties go against Deetroit when the Tigers were shit at hitting lefties was brilliant, even if that’s just how the rotation fell into place with Vogie and Matt closing out the NCLS. Boch didn’t HAVE to start Bummie, but he felt they fixed his mechanical issues, and bingo, up 2-0 with your 2 best starters ready to go.
Just as the Cy Young award has undergone a major change in the way pitchers are evaluated, thanks to what I believe Flav calls the underlying numbers, maybe the MOY award needs a similar revision. It’s become automatic that a manager whose team improved from a losing season to a winning one will win the MOY class. In this case, of course, it was the Nats in the NL and the A’s and O’s in the AL. I guarantee whoever manages the Pirates to their first winning season since ’92 — and lord knows when that day will come — will be the no-brainer MOY.
That said, Johnson, Baker and Bochy all had superb seasons despite having major issues to work through. The Strasburg one was unprecedented, especially in this instant media age, and Johnson deserves credit for handling that matter. And Baker had to put up with an endless stream of criticism over lineups and such. Heck, a bunch of us here in Jersey would bitch about Baker any time Todd Frazier wasn’t starting, and that gripe was likely even louder in Cincy. But in the end, it was Johnson who was the no-brainer pick due to the big jump in wins.
Interesting to look at the voting results. Bud Black and Mike Matheny each got 1 vote. Ron Washington somehow got the same number of votes as Jim Leyland — 2 — despite gagging away the division. Joe Girardi was 5th — I actually thought he had a pretty good season and maybe should’ve finished a little higher after dealing with even more crap than usual in New York.
The Strassburg deal is hard to fathom. My point is why rush the guy to his arbitrary limit? To think they could have used him in the playoffs is the understatement of the decade.
They could have pitched him from the pen early in the season. They could have replaced a few of his midseason starts with bullpen sessions. They could have done a number of things to stretch out his season. They seemed bound and determined to get to his 160 inning limit and shut him down. Then came the bullshit comments by the owner about Strassburg’s ‘mental makeup’ and all the denials and such.
It’s also hard for me to figure that Johnson went along with all this. Surely he knows how to stretch a pitcher that he KNEW was up against the limits put forth by the owner.
It’s like Colorado and the 70 pitch limit for all their starters. Who buys into that?
And now for something completely different. This is from ABC’s Denver affiliate, Ch 7:
Ooops.
I have always liked him, as a player and with the mets he created a lot of mets fans. Right, Jon Stewart?
Where is David Allen “Davey” Johnson now?
I am sure we all know the answer.
He was out of baseball, almost completely, for 10 years and now he is back. And problably the only manager I can’t hate after winning MOY over my choice.
This article might not meet the Flap criteria for a “where is he now?” as it is a year late. Be that as it may I remember watching him come out of the Nats dugout during a game early this season and I spontaineously said to the tv, “that’s Davey Johnson, how nice to see him on baseball field.” Along the way he has been in and out of the MLB more than once.
In 1970 he was an all star, gold glove 2nd baseman on the Baltimore World series team. 5 years later he was playing in Japan. In 1978 he ended his MLB playing career with a half-a-season with the cubs. He was then out of baseball (with a couple of minor exceptions) for 6 years. He then foujnd his place as a manager for 16 years until the 2000 season where he disappeared from baseball for 11 years.Except as a consultant and tell me one great player not named Bonds that hasn’t been some kind of consultant?
In a strange twist he found his skills were needed again and he became a MLB manager just before the trade deadline of the 2011 season.
With a full 11 seasons between managerial work and at the age of 69 davey now has a MOY in both leagues and I think it is a great story for this “mild mannered manger”. Welcome back
but don’t you think he looks like an aging chipmunk?
Good stuff here all around. I tend to think the selection of MOY should consider the postseason as one factor, but everybody here has made good points. Anyway, who gives a shit. I’ll take a ring any day.
I wonder if Jim Riggleman laments, “That could’ve been me!”
ha, but he told them! pulled a Pawlie Kokonuts job move
At the end of the day (or at any point during the day or night) I agree with your point, Pawlie “Anyway, who gives a shit. I’ll take a ring any day.” LMAO…that was good.
I’m sorry, dusty sucks.
Agree . . . Ironically, he has something like 3-4 MOYs. Nevertheless, I bet he would trade all of them for one championship.
Lets face it, all fans are biased to there team and when your team wins the WS, why shouldn’t your team win ALL the awards. So hell yes Bochy should have gotten the MOY award. But the bottom line as a fan, I want to see my team win the WS. until I started reading the the Chron online and reading the comments and then reading this blogg, I really didn’t give a shit about all the other awards, every year. If I did not see the Giants in the WS, the season and everything else about baseball was over!! Are you guys telling me that every year the Giants were not in the WS you read up on the two teams that were in it that year? and then you thought about who should get MVP, CY, MOY etc, etc. I tip my cap to you as a Baseball Junkie not just a Giants Fan. Now I am not saying I don’t follow baseball, I do, but not with the same zest I follow the Giants. Can any of you name the MOY for oh say just 5 years ago. 2007? But we ALL know the Giants did not win the WS that year. So while awards are nice, I want my team to win the WS!!
Very appreciative letter emailed to the fans [or is it just me??!!] by Larry Baer. One quibble: we Giants fans are not just in the Bay Area.
sent him an email thanking him for the gracious note, and reminding him of the fans beyond the Bay
Dear World Champion Giants Fan,
After the final out of our World Series Championship in Detroit, I watched our players toss their gloves in the air and howl and leap onto each other and hug and wipe away tears. I have been watching and rooting for the Giants almost since birth. I have never seen a team like this one. They were utterly selfless and utterly devoted to each other. They never stopped battling, clawing their way back from the brink of elimination six times in the postseason. Every game was a Frank Capra movie – inspiring heroics, unlikely twists, hard-fought redemption.
As I watched manager Bruce Bochy and his staff spill onto the field, I imagined what was happening in San Francisco. All of us who traveled to Detroit – including every player and coach – knew Coit Tower, the Ferry Building and City Hall were awash in orange light. We knew that fans had filled every inch of Civic Center Plaza to watch Game 4. We knew that throughout the Bay Area, living rooms and pubs were packed with people wearing Panda and Baby Giraffe hats, fake beards and “Vogelstrong” bracelets.
We also knew that no matter how talented the players or how ingenious the manager, no team can win a World Series Championship – much less two in three years – without a little magic.
Our magic is you.
I wish you could hear how our players talk about you, not just with each other but also with players on other teams. Brandon Belt says base runners on first base tell him they’ve never heard a park as loud as AT&T. Hunter Pence says that Giants fans are “the ultimate motivator.” Matt Cain calls you their 10th player.
So believe me when I tell you this: Our players carried all of you with them onto the field at Comerica Park. And they were unbeatable.
Like 2010, this World Series Championship was truly a shared victory. So it was humbling during the parade last Wednesday to see fans holding signs saying “Thank You!” The gratitude is ours. We don’t win without you. You filled AT&T Park every game. You supported the players and coaches through the highs and lows. You flooded onto Market Street and into Civic Center Plaza in a celebration that felt like the world’s biggest family reunion.
We came away from that unforgettable afternoon even more inspired and energized – and immediately got working on 2013.
Critical to any championship team is the general manager, and in Brian Sabean we have one of the most accomplished in the business. He and his staff continue to be the modern model for baseball operations departments, combining cutting-edge analytics with deeply experienced and stable leadership. With two World Series Championships in three years, Brian solidified his reputation for drafting and developing young talent, finding undervalued players who become critical contributors and constructing a deep and versatile roster.
He has the perfect partner in Bruce Bochy, now universally acknowledged as a master strategist who, having won eight of the nine Giants World Series games he has managed, is surely on his way to a spot in Cooperstown. The 2012 World Series starting lineup had just one position player – Buster Posey – in common with the 2010 World Series starting lineup, underscoring Sabean’s ability to identify players who fit the Giants’ approach to winning – strong pitching, outstanding defense and timely hitting – and Bochy’s ability to meld them into a cohesive unit.
We move into 2013 with great excitement and optimism. The pitching staff – both starters and relievers – continues to be the strength of the team. Matt Cain, the anchor of the staff, keeps getting better, pitching a one-hitter on the home opener, a perfect game on June 13 and earning the win as the starting pitcher in the All-Star Game. He is signed through 2017, ensuring leadership and stability for a long time to come. We have all the starters signed for 2013: Barry Zito, Ryan Vogelsong, Madison Bumgarner and Tim Lincecum. Most of our stellar bullpen will be back, too.
Homegrown players Brandon Crawford and Brandon Belt emerged as solid starters, joining Pablo Sandoval and Buster Posey as core position players who give the Giants a strong foundation into the future. After missing a year to a devastating injury, Buster reclaimed his spot among the elite players in baseball and as the heart and soul of the Giants. He was nothing short of remarkable this season, leading all of baseball with his .336 batting average, leading all National League players with a single-season record of 7,621,370 votes in the All-Star balloting, hit a grand slam in the decisive Game 5 against the Cincinnati Reds to clinch the NLDS, won the Hank Aaron Award as the best offensive player in the National League and was the NL Comeback Player of the Year. He is a finalist for the NL’s Most Valuable Player, which will be announced tomorrow, November 15.
Despite two stints on the disabled list this season, Pablo showed his star power by hitting three home runs in his first three at-bats of the World Series, batted .500 during the four-game sweep and earning the Series’ Most Valuable Player Award.
In all, we are now accustomed to high expectations and rest assured, the day after we returned from Detroit with the World Series trophy, we were back at work analyzing ways to make the 2013 team even better.
On behalf of Brian, Bruce, the players and everyone at the San Francisco Giants, thank you for your tireless support. Thank you for taking us into your lives like family. Thank you for making us better.
We look forward to seeing you at FanFest in February!
Lawrence M. Baer Signature
Laurence M. Baer
President and Chief Executive Officer
San Francisco Giants
Larry must be a Flapper. 🙂
thanks for copying it and pasting it, Blade
De nada.
Yes…thanks, Blade. And hell yes…I do believe he is a Flapper!
Not so oddly, I don’t have much to criticize about Baer’s letter. 😉
After 2 WS wins in 3 years, there’s not much to grouse about.
Note that he specifically mentions Sabes and staff using “cutting-edge analytics”. Clearly not a throwaway phrase. Obviously a riposte to the stories about Sabean being a doubter of Sabermetrics…
I remember in 2004, when Sabean was criticized unmercifully for signing “older players” and Sabean dismissing his critics as a “lunatic fringe.” Afterwards, quite a few fans used “lunatic fringe” as a rallying cry, printing up t-shirts with the phrase and wearing them at the phone park. LMAO. Even Felipe Alou groused about Sabean sending him players that might require CPR or even last rites during a game.
However, fans forget 3 key reasons that Sabes surrounded Barry with relatively cheap veterans: 1. The Phone Park cost, i.e., the “Wise Men” (I stole that from Training Day) told him that he had a certain amount to spend and not to go above that amount; 2. Again, related to holding down costs, he was not allowed to overspend in the draft; and, 3. The “win now” mentality with Barry still viable meant that the draft was an afterthought, as long as he was around. Despite these restraints, Sabean was successful during the period that Barry Bonds played . . . However, the piper had to be paid when Barry retired and the Giants record reflects that.
Very cool. I guess I didn’t check my email . . .
it is sorta nice that the players on other teams acknowledge the fact that the Giants have some pretty damn good fans. It was a different world at the Stick, and even a different vibe since the new park opened. Gone are a lot of the posers with their laptops sitting in the bars in the club level not even bothering to watch the game.
After Barry left, things seemed to get closer to reality and less a reality show. Around 2008 through 2009 the fans base returned to more of a real fan and not part of the Barry travelling circus. Not that I begrudge Barry anything. He built the damn place for God’s sake.
MOY award is even more ridiculous than the other awards — there’s no objective criteria whatever. Melvin got it over Showie, which is a bit of a surprise, and that’s nice, but otherwise, BFD. I wouldn’t sweat Bochy not getting it. I guess Bochy doesn’t care much either, even privately, unless he’s got a contract provision that gives him a new fishing boat if he wins MOY. Otherwise, why should he care beyond one “hurumph” — he’s got 2 rings and a shot now at HOF consideration, and probably another year’s extension this offseason. MOY award or another $2.5 million? Rough choice there. Dusty would obviously give up his 3 friggin’ MOY awards for ONE ring…
Guess Bochy will just have to console himself with his two World Series rings.
I suspect Bochy’s public demeanor doesn’t help him in these bullshit MOY deals. In interviews he comes across as sort of your out-there-a-little bit uncle who has lost a bit off his fastball, so to speak. He doesn’t manage that way, obviously. And, we hear/see him much more out here, so we get a more in-depth view of him with all that regularly in the mix. But, most of these writers and the eastern media types don’t see him much other than the occasional interview. They’re in their own world, and the Giants are just not a part of it…
Similar to the Republicans being in the “Fox bubble” where no other alternative insight/news is allowed in, the East Coast is alone in thinking that the Yankmees define their bizarro World.
Easy now, easy now. There’s me and Bozo and Macdog east of you. This week I learned a term to describe this: EPISTEMIC CLOSURE. Apparently the term got popular in 2010, via Julian Sanchez. This week I heard David Brooks (a conservative columnist I like) use EPISTEMIC CLOSURE to describe the G.O.P. in a conversation with E.J. Dionne on NPR. (Speaking of NPR, I really worry about Nipper. Where is he? We miss him.) Anyway, epistemic closure is a great term to describe that bubble which we all have to a degree.
Whenever I say East Coast bias or bubble, you three get passes (get out of jail free cards?). I thought that was already understood? 🙂
If that term has anything to do with an episiotomy, I want nothing to do with it.
But, seriously folks. Is David Brooks really a Republican? The pretzel logic in some of his columns tells me he’s a secret Dem trying to rationalize his public perception as some sort of GOP intellectual; since he’s no longer a GOPer as that movement has violently veered into the rightist ditch. Plus, he’s not necessarily an intellectual, either. I’m unsure that the GOP has HAD an intellectual of any weight since WF Buckley passed on. Ryan? Gimme a break…
Agree that there are NO GOP intellectuals anymore. I use to love Gore Vidal and William Buckley debates. Great theater.
yes, Blade, understand; crass of me to bring it up so often; wrong of me
When I was in high school, I went over Bill Buckley’s house. BTW, I do a wicked impersonation. Or did.
I get to look down on the East Coast and its bias.
They won’t know what hit them.
🙂
Edd, you can look down on the East Coast just don’t start pissing on it. I don’t want to get sprayed because of poor aim.
Last I heard from Nipper, he picked up DJ Loo in his van. Neither have been heard from since,
And since when is England the east coast?
By the way, only two Bay area sports writers voted for Bochy in the number one slot.
Free DJ Loo!!!
I got a letter from Baer, too. It was different from the form letter most seem to have received..
“Dear Mike,
Thank you so much for your helpful advice this year and for taking the heat about my misgiviings on Sabean’s acquistion of Pagan and Bochy playing Crawford. I know you were behind those decisions all the way. Thanks for falling on what should have been my sword..
But I want to especially thank you for the delicious dinner you prepared for Pam and I at your home. We had a wonderrdful time-Pam really enjoyed the bruschetta, and the Crème brûlée was magnificent- it was quite an honor that you let me man the blow torch to caramelize it. What a thrill!
Thank you again for your help as I’ve settled into my new role, I’ll look forward to your salary and roster recomendations for 2013.
My best as always,
Larry
LMAO…and then you woke up. 😉
You know what? Just once, just once, I’d like to see someone get a letter like that in real life.
I just got this e-mail from Baer:
Hey Assbite,
Two outta three years — World Series Champs. That good enough for ya, Chief?
I’m tired of your lame wisecracks and insults. What other MLB front office exec has that record of recent objective success? (Bow Tie didn’t do THAT much in 2010). And, we’re selling out our seasons, no thanks to you and your once-a-season cheap-ass personal attendance with your little brats. So, thanks to our great fanbase, not you, we have enough money to keep this winning train’s momentum going into 2013 and beyond.
I’m looking forward to you lightening up on ripping me in recognition of this success. Not that I could give a rat’s ass one way or the other. And, by the way, I’m going to double down now on those funky, incessant, largely stoopid game promotions and commemorations that bug you. Rest assured I’m going to sell trinkets and licensed product of every kind and nature into the foreseeable future because Giants fans will eat this World Series shit up for the next decade, regardless of how we do on the field. And, because the “Committee” demands that I do it.
Go Giants!
Respectfully yours,
Larry
P.S.
Blow me.
******************
All things considered, I thought it was a rather nice missive… 😉
Hilarious snarrk.
haha, you KNOW that’s what he wishes he could say on Tom’s show sometimes. He definitely wanted to talk to Ralph like that before they canned his ass.
Yikes. Just reading about the Marlins’ salary dump. Does the commissioner EVER halt a transaction “in the best interests of baseball”? BREAKING: R.A. Dickey and David Price get Cy Young awards.
The trade would never have gone through under Giamatti or Vincent. Either would probably have worked behind the scenes to force Loria out of baseball before this, given his track record of shenanigans. This is bad for the game. But, under the Budster, anything goes until the team reaches crisis at rock bottom (McCourt). IMO it’s an abomination that this franchise has two WS wins in the past 15 years…
Happy for Dickey and Price, but especially Dickey, who by all accounts, is an outstanding individual.
Yep, I think Dickey was a good choice. Good story, too…
While they’re giving shit away, do you think we could get Giancarlo “Don’t call me Mike” Stanton for Conor Gillaspie and Boof Bonser?
Shoot, they can have Manny Burriss, too…
Have you been asleep clown? Per the Repubtards, President Obama is in charge of giving shit away.
Manny is no longer ours, he’s opted for free agency. Uh, the Marlins might be a suitor…
OK on Manny. I heard that they outrighted him with Hensley, but Manny was gonna go back to Fresno again. Time to grow up, I guess, and see if there’s greener grass elsewhere. Hey, Miami’s probably got some openings…
Apparently Ron Wotus is interviewing for the Mariners managing job. . . .
I hope he gets it. But, in AL, would be a waste of his tactical skills. Beachhead for a Timmy connection later?…
Since teams share gate receipts in MLB ( I think 60/40 Home/Visitor), wouldn’t the other NL East teams be pissed about this trade? None of them get any of the Marlins players. All they get is a surely diminished share of gate receipts next year when they play 10X in Miami in front of a coupla thousand fans, most of them in the lounge/club in left field…
Snarkk, I’m not sure about the gate receipts but there is some big cash windfall coming for…..mlb tv deal? Something like that? 50 million to each team? I might be imaging this story, some of you can help me re-remember….
Bud has been fantastic as commish in one single way: He’s made a shitload of money for all the owners—he’s turned millionaires into billionaires. Every single decision he’s ever made has been with that one background factor in mind—how much scratch is this going to net us?
Well, there’s no doubt Loria played the Miami politicians and voters for fools. He got a new stadium, bumped the salary up for the first season in it, and is now clearing the decks to count his rev sharing dough that will net him a higher cash flow than fielding a competitive squad. Loria and McCourt — now competing for the most despised MLB ownership…
oh I don’t think there’s a competition, Loria is running away with it……
The good news from this big trade is that Toronto is now relevant again. The AL East is the real deal again, up and down the division…..
I would luv to see the Yanks and BoSox both shut out of the POs next year…
i could totally see that happening and I’m with you, it would be spectacular theater. The Red Sox are always just an implosion waiting to happen and they usually do it in boring, predicable fashion. By that I mean, when they start to lose, you know the implosion is coming. The Yankees aren’t that way at all. They manage all aspects of drama and losing better than the Red Sox. But if the Yankees get pushed a little more, push them over the top of the cliff….oh man, I will be enjoying the drama of 2012 in New York. It will be better than any fireworks show I’ve ever seen in real life……..
Well, yes and no. Things got pretty messy with A-Rod in the series against Detroit. Girardi had to ask the PA announcer not to use A-rod’s name when Ibanez pinch hit. I loved this: after the Yankees lost and after the story broke that A-Rod was giving or trying to get chick phone numbers, the NY Post on the front page showed a baseball w/ this scrawled on it: “Dear Yankees, We don’t date LOSERS.”
…including the Rays, too
Well, on paper they are. But seriously, how many times have any of us looked at the YankMees or Red Sox and said they were loaded and a lock (rhetorical question)….
Even Bowie Kuhn, hardly a strong commish, voided Finley’s attempted fire sale in 1976. Finley sued and lost: The ruling:
“The Commissioner has the authority to determine whether any act, transaction, or practice is not within the best interest of baseball, and upon such determination, to take whatever preventative or remedial action he deems appropiate, whether or not the act, transaction, or practice complies with the Major league Rules or involves moral turpitude.”
Exactly. And that was basically my entire point. Selig has supported everything Loria has done to make dough. He’s not going to stop this deal because it would mean his overall profit maximization would be worse. He already scored his stadium. Now all he had to do is get rid of the contracts he took on to make it look like he was competing. Now his team salary cost is like 16 million for 2013. And he still gets all the revenue sharing that will be coming his way.
Advantage: Loria.
Selig: happy
Thanks for hunting this down. It gnawed on me ever since Boston unloaded salary. Thanks for the exact wording, though clearly it is now an empty phrase.
come up with a new screen name or go away—flavor
well, you’re right; shhhhhhhhhhhhh; don’t tell anyone
Funny. From a Huf Post article on the Miami trade:
“[Miami] Radio talk show host Jeff DeForrest began fielding calls from irate listeners shortly after news of the trade broke Tuesday. “The next move obviously is to have Fidel Castro throw out the first pitch next year,” DeForrest said. “That’s the only way they could alienate the fans more than they have.”
How many *irate* fans are actually in Florida? They were filling like 20K seats last year, and that was in the brand new stadium………
However many there were, apparently there are less now. South Fla has got to be the worst place for a baseball team in the country. Population very transient, many with roots and loyalties from elsewhere, lots of things to do otherwise, etc. They just don’t give a crap, yet you’d think it would be otherwise with a strong Hispanic, Caribbean and Central and S. American ethnic population that traditionally loves baseball. Strange situation. And, bad for baseball. Lew Wolff may ask Loria if he can buy and just move that stadium to San Jose…
He’s got a no-trade clause, but why not A-Rod to Miami for a coupla players, and the Yanks still pay him 90% of his deal. That might work for everybody…
Mark this down: A-Rod is going nowhere, nowhere but the Bronx. Book it.
OK, Pawlie.
You’re back there, so I’ll take your word for it…
Yeah, Pawlie, that NY Post front page was a howl: http://www.nypost.com/archives/covers/;jsessionid=1DB7C2A3318487DC706A8A248C832066?dateChosen=10192012
One of the things I’ve come to really appreciate about Bochy is his recall after games. He really remembers everything. He may use good ol’ boy country tone, but the recall is always very precise. He can talk back the entire game to reporters, and I’m not sure all the managers could do that. It shows the intensity of his concentration.
Not to poke fun at Leyland….but anyone else remember in the World Series, at a critical moment late in one of the games, the camera showed that Leyland had abandoned his usual spot, and was in a distant part of the dugout, in front of one of the heaters, getting warmed. And the GIANTS were the team that the national media said would have issues with the cold weather in Detroit. The national media seemed sort of unaware how cold night-games can get in SF.
I realize Leyland is an older manager, but he’s not all THAT old. He’s 67 correct? People act like he’s 87 or something.
Can you imagine Bochy abandoning his spot in the dugout to stand in front of a heater? It’s unthinkable.
Marlins had some decent if not exceptional attendance numbers until ’98 when the first break up of the team went down. The fans haven’t given a shit since- they were 15th of 16 in attendance in their second championship year of 2003. In ’97 they were 5th in attendance.
well what is your opinion of what happened? They got a brand new stadium and no one showed up. Is that an entire community turning against Ozzie’s idiotic comments about Castro? Or is it something else?
It happened well before Ozzie- when they broke up the 1997 championship team, the fans stopped coming. Never returned. My opinion is very simple- they showed utter contempt for their fans and the old farts chose lawn games instead of getting ripped off by scumbags..
From their first year in 1993 through 1997 they were 5th, 6th, 8th, 10th, and 5th ( of 14 teams ). Since ’98 when they broke up the champs and went 54-108, they have never been better than 12th (this year) and were 15th or 16th of 16 teams 10 times.My point being that they did have OK attendance until they spit on their market in 1998.
WTF does it take to post a picture on this @#$%ing site??? I uploaded a picture (new media) that is supposedly tied to a DJ Loo sighting, but damned if I can get the fucking picture to post…
Blade, thanks for the nice words about my post, but I can’t take credit for the jelley-legged phrase. That belongs to Steve Lyon’s character in “For Love of the Game.” He plays an announcer, along with Vin Scully, who calls the Kevin Costner character’s (Billy Chapel) perfecto and uses the phrase. Interestingly, Chapel plays for the Tigers at the end of his career. I agree that it’s hilarious and really descriptive. Yet another thing I love about baseball,the little details like that that flavor things up. The movie is a bit sappy, but sure to please die-hard baseball fans
Regardless of the authenticity of that potion of your post…it kicked ass. Hope to see you here more frequently, JBat.
Thanks Chi.
New thread, if I may be so bold. (grin)