The Millerification of Baseball, and Sports
Marvin Miller, who died yesterday at 95, was the Walter Reuther-Martin Luther King, Jr.-Eugene Debs-Joe Hill of baseball. Something like that.
Who had a greater influence than he did?
Not many.
I remember thinking of him as arrogant. Plus, he was “ruining” my beloved game.
I don’t quite feel that way now.
But on balance, what do you think? Is the game of baseball better or worse as a result of his legacy?
Incidentally, he obviously belongs in the Hall of Fame, but it is not surprising that the powers-that-are have not seen to that.
A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball 
Of all the things he did for the players, I think his work on the pension plan is somewhat overlooked. I have never read his book “A Whole New Ballgame” but I would like to hear his take on Bowie Kuhn. Ever since Kuhn kicked Mays and Mantle out of baseball for getting jobs as Casino greeters, I’ve hated the man. So Miller fighting him every step of the way makes him one of the good guys IMO.
Yes he should be in the Hall, this is what Miller said about it a few years ago “It’s been about trying to rewrite history rather than record it. They decided a long time ago that they would downgrade any impact the union has had. And part of that plan was to keep me out of it.”. Whenever they open a Hall of Fame that’s actually dedicated to the history of baseball and not it’s politics, he’ll get in (so will Rose and Shoeless Joe).
the HOF is a joke. They keep guys out who should get in and don’t let them in till they’re dead. Miller will probably get in now that he’s died…….
I think it’s hard to argue against the positive impact that Miller had not just on baseball but across all sports. Prior to the work he did, baseball players were basically slaves. And while free agency has blown up to the point of many teams being excluded from signing certain players, I still prefer this system to the one pre-Curt Flood……
Speaking of the HOF, the ballots are going out today. Bonds, Clemens, and Sosa (among others like Craig Biggio, Mike Piazza, and Curt Schill(ing)) and are all now eligible. . .
Free agency led directly to escalating salaries, but that’s on the owners.
It also led to rooting for the jersies rather than the players, as they switch willy-nilly from one year to the next.
But yeah, baseball was indentured servitude before free agency. You had no way out. Good, bad, or indifferent, that work environment was onerous to say the least.
How often do no players make it into the HOF on a given year? Cause I don’t think any of those players are going to get voted in…….
Here’s a pretty good column on Miller: http://www.nj.com/sports/ledger/izenbergcol/index.ssf/2012/11/marvin_millers_changed_the_fac.html#incart_river
Is the game better or worse? The Giants have won the World Series in two of the last three seasons, so as far as I’m concerned the game’s never been better!
I’m sure it was great being a Giants fan back in the 60s knowing that every year, unless there was a big trade like the Cepeda deal, players like Mays, McCovey, Bonds, Marichal and Perry were always on the roster. But it was a ridiculously unfair system, and so Miller was the right man at the right time to turn MLB on its head. Now, as Fay Vincent said, “At the moment, they (the players) control the games.” That Miller is not in the HOF is a travesty.
Just when I’m thinking about cutting back on reading this damn blog, along comes a thread like yesterday’s and I get sucked back in. What incredibly moving posts, especially from Flav and Snarkk.
Excellent article…thanks for sharing, Mac.
There have been some years that no one has made it. Upwards of 10-15 per year are eligible.
You don;t think Schilling gets in, Flav? He may be the only one . . .
The only thing Schilling gets into the HOF is his bloody ketchup sock.No way he gets in.
I have a dream that ballplayers will not be judged by their team colors but by the content of their bank account.
Miller had a big impact on the game, no doubt. I’m ambivalent about non-players other than umps and radio announcers being in the HOF. That includes writers and any other non-players. They can certainly have a history section in the HOF about important people that impacted the game, but actually being a HOF member seems a little off to me. Why not Doctors Jobe and Andrews for their Tommy John surgery pioneering? They’ve done more for the game than a lot of people the last two decades…
For those who care, ESPN is showing the Jim Harbaugh press conference at noon (in 10 minutes) to announce his starting QB this weekend. . .
Colin it is . . .
Barry Bonds is quoted today in the Splash about the HOF ballot, and his treatment for the upcoming vote. He actually sounds pretty resigned about it, and IMO, has some valid points. I’ve come full circle on the ‘roids thing from my view a few years back. I was pissed at Bonds and the others for using ‘roids, and I thought they dirtied the game, and shouldn’t get into the HOF, even if otherwise eligible. Now, with all this info out the last few years, hell Bonds was just one guy playing against a whole league of ‘roiders. We don’t know and never will know what percentage of the league was on ‘roids during Bonds time in the late 90s through mid 2000s. We DO know that there were lots and lots of ’em using. Krukow today said on radio when he broke into MLB in the ’70s, hell before every game, if you wanted to you just walked to the trainer’s room to get a few greenies and be on your way for the game. I assume he’s not blowing smoke just for Bonds’ sake. If that’s true, and I assume it is since we’ve seen/heard many, similar stories from others, are we going to blow out all the ’60s and ’70s HOFers because maybe or it’s likely they were using PEDs, along with the rest of the league? If no, then there’s no difference here, IMO. I say vote Bonds in now. Won’t happen, the writers voting are hypocrites, because if they were around during Bonds’ era, they had to know what was going on before the public did, and other than Boswell, didn’t write a word until they absolutely couldn’t hide it anymore…
Here’s a link to the HOF ballot. http://baseballhall.org/news/museum-news/big-names-biggest-honor
IMO, only Biggio has a good shot at getting elected, maybe Piazza. How do we know Biggio didn’t use PEDs? Or Piazza? We don’t know, we won’t know. That’s why there’s no rational reason why Biggio should get in, but Bonds does not. I would guess Jack Morris will get more votes, but miss getting in again this time…
Curious to see what Atlanta gives BJ Upton, as it will surely impact what Pagan gets.
absolutely–5 years/75 mil. Pagan isn’t going to get anywhere close to that but I could see Pagan now thinking he’s worth 12 mil a year off that. So, if he sticks with the 3 years he says he’s cool with then now he’s looking at 36 mil or so.
Standards just to make the HOF.ballot are hitting a all-time low.Royce Clayton and Ryan Klesko LOL..They can’t be serious.Shit where’s Johnny Lemaster then ferchrissakes.
Maybe they confused Clayton with Miguel Tejada after watching “Moneyball.”
Good article on CSNBA on Wilson, and he might land with the Dodgers. With this humongous new cable TV deal, they certainly will have the cash to toss around on more risky players…
http://www.csnbayarea.com/baseball-san-francisco-giants/giants-talk/Could-Brian-Wilson-end-up-with-the-Dodge?blockID=807281&feedID=2539
Thanks for the link. Good stuff from Baggs. I had never read one of his CSN Bay Area columns before. I tried to look for it once last season, couldn’t find it, and never looked for it again.
And sounds like that’s happened to a lot of people. The number of comments that have been posted after Baggs’ column today?
Two, count ’em, two people.
Ouch.
The old Baggs blogs on the Merc got tons and tons of attention. Several hundred per blog before, during and after Giants games he covered. It would be heavy for all of his posts, since he normally did several after a game on different topics. But, not so on CSNBA. The website is very jumbled, to start. Hard to really focus on what’s what, and who’s writing what. It’s just not very well done. Plus, I think a lot of bloggers just either don’t know about it, or find CSNBA not their cup of tea, for whatever reason. It also seemed easier to log into the Merc blogs compared to the CSNBA. I doubt Baggs is happy with the vastly reduced traffic his columns seem to get. He traded that off for a bigger paycheck, I suppose, and TV exposure…
Yeah, I totally agree. I just posted a thing down below that has some similar thoughts.
Speaking of voting….for people who like irony, it looks like after all the votes are done being counted, Romney will have 47% of the vote.
I saw that Z. I guess he was just confused about who the 47% were voting for.
Speaking of the election, where’s my free stuff? Did it go to someone who voted for Romney?
Mitt’s voters were all at that mansion dinner where he got secretly taped. That was the tape of the year. Just a bit better than when in one of the GOP debates, Rick Perry went total brain fart on his memorized talking point and said “Oops”. He was toast after that. I lived in Texas for about 3 years. Texas politicians are slimy, ignorant, and vain. And, those are the good ones…
I see no prb with 3 yrs for AP. But agree w baggs. think he will want 4
Baggs’ reader comments is up to 4 now, for today’s column. Obviously, Baggs is getting paid more for his new gig, but it’s possible he has far less readers. I wonder if he’s fully happy with that trade-off.
And, sure, he gets a lot of air-time as a commentator now, so maybe he doesn’t care.
But….I wonder if it bugs him a little that he has less people saying, “Hey, Andy, I really like what you wrote today….” There doesn’t seem to be a “buzz” anymore about his writing. Kruk and Kuip used to mention his columns once in a while.
At heart, Baggs is a writer. A pretty good one. And, diligent. If he does all that work, and nobody’s reading it, I’d guess that as a professional writer that gets him a little pissed, even if the checks are bigger than before…
well, they are probably reading it, just not blogging about it underneath his article. If there isn’t any blogger action most bloggers just read and leave. But I’m sure he has all his followers from the Merc. Having said that, I used to read his Merc blogs every day and now I read maybe one of his CSNBA articles a month (for all the reasons you guys listed above, that site sucks).
Eli Whiteside must have his head spinning like Jerry Mahoney [an outdated reference]. Monday’s ESPN MLB transactions say he signed a one-year deal with the Skanks. Today he gets DFAed by them. Go figure. So, does he get paid for 2013? Who loves ya, Eli? We do. From a safe distance. (Enjoy those two rings.)
I think they signed him to a conditional MLB / minor league deal, with a guaranteed amount around $250K or something at minimum, even if he ended in the minors. Maybe this DFA is part of that plan, and he’ll have to make the big club to get the big dough at $$650K or some such. Or, not… 😉
I’m torn. I didn’t know who the fuck Marvin Miller was until about 4 years ago when I read about him. His approach seemed like complete hubris and assholiness and seemed like a major league fuckhead. And yet…everyone won with his cantakering(sic).Everyone ended up winning.
I’m not sure the final result was his original goal–but it certainly became a win-win.
But frankly, I don’t think he was that premonitious.
I think it was luck.
So God bless and R.I.P. and all that. Death is never anything to celebrate. But Marvin Miller appears, to me, to have been the lucky recipient of a really crazy fuckhead idea that just ended up working out with all the negotiations despite the original intentions.
Yes. I’m an asshole.
Hello. My name is Ted–and I’m an asshole—–“HI TED!!!”
LMAO on Ted’s post. They say opinions are like assholes, and everyone has one, so WTF…I’ll share mine.
By the way, nice thread, Pawlie.
Miller had so much to do with the game that we Flappers all love so dearly, and with all due respect Ted, I think it was more than luck (again…just my opinion). I read snarkk’s comment on who should and shouldn’t be in the hall (mainly talking non-players outside of umps and radio announcers). But really, if an ump or an announcer is in, then I think that Miller should absolutely be in the HOF.
I watched a follow-up with Tim Kurkjian, and I think he summed it up quite well when he said, and I paraphrase (this in reference to why MM is not in the Baseball Hall of Fame) “I think it is just a case where management figures do not like him and that is unfortunate. The bottom line is you cannot write the history of baseball without Marvin Miller being right in the middle of it and the BBHOF is the museum which chronicles the game of baseball, and you cannot chronicle the history of baseball without Marvin Miller.”
I read where the HOF’s motto is “”Preserving History, Honoring Excellence, Connecting Generations.” If the “Preserving History” part is true, then Miller should be in.
I agree with others and think the HOF is a joke. There are players and baseball figures (like Miller) who belong, but because of politics, they are not, and that is a sad statement in relation to such a beautiful game.
Calvin Griffirth and his clan owned and ran the Twins when I was there.Calvin was a noted skinflint but he thought himself a generous man.Zoilo Versalles had a thing for expensive Italian shoes and he had dozens, which he really couldn’t afford on his 28,000 salary- so Calvin bought them for him.If the first CBA had been in effect, he probably would have made enough to buy them himself…(That was just a litle sidenote of no big importace)
Marvin Miller was one of the most important and influential men in the history of sport, that’s he’s not in the hall is a travesty.He was also of the few sane voices in the PED scandal, saying the union ( he was no longer the head) should never have agreed to testing,When a guy like Manny Burriss deposits his $377,000 buck World Series share, more than 12 times more than the 1965 AL MVP made, he can thank Marvin Miller. And before anyone kvetches about player salaries- the owners are making record profits and they have one product that generates those profits, and the concessions, parking fees, the salaries for the “lttle people”- clerks, ushers, etc,etc. The product is the ballplayers.
I beg to differ, Twin. As stupid and seemingly meaningless as the current testing is, it is better than nothing. To let PEDs go unchecked would be tantamount to making baseball like football. Throw in the smaller parks so in vogue, and baseball scores would be 17-13. 15-9, and shit like that. No thanks. Sure, people are still cheating, but scores have come way down from the heydays of the steroid era.
It’s like the whole idea of legailzing all drugs. I really don’t have a problem with that, but it sends a clear message to everyone that life is a free-for-all and we don’t need rules. There would be about 10 years of bad craziness til shit settled down.
It’s a big topic we’ve discussed before, fruitlessly. Seriously, I’m sorry I mentioned it again.
I don’t begrudge anything the players get in their contracts. In most cases (Texas and A-Rod?), if the owners couldn’t afford it, they wouldn’t pay it. MLB is making money hand over fist, so Miller’s legacy is the size of the players checks. The HOF as the museum of baseball can cover all the non-player contributors to the history of baseball without making the most prominent actual HOF members. Which is part of my view that the more MLB has become a business first and a game second, we’ve lost the focus of the players being the game. With players moving through multiple teams in a career, the more the fan has become like an NFL fan — you root for “the laundry”, and not so much the players that wear it, because they change clothes pretty often. IMO, that’s an unfortunate outgrowth of what Miller and the player’s union strength in bargaining position has brought to the game…
The real world and how it would be if it was like baseball in the pre-Miller days: Jimmy Smedley retires after 50 years as Window 2 clerk at the Orchard Avenue McDonalds..
I was just reading about Brooks Robinson and how he ended up broke. Made less than a million in his 23 yr career.
fyi…Good piece from Boswell
http://tinyurl.com/c8dhk9e
Speaking of Robinson, and Miller’s legacy, Boswell said this:
“Some athletes will still go broke. But thanks to Marvin Miller, none will have to feel such mortification because their employers systematically robbed them of rightful fortunes, keeping the cash for themselves.”
Thanks for the link, Salty.
Boswell is one of the better sportswriters out there. Years ago I read his book that profiled Jim Palmer, Don Baylor, Eddie Murray, and someone else.
Interesting little Miller tidbit I just read from Bill Madden of the NY Daily News:
“On a separate front, Miller negotiated numerous lucrative licensing and marketing deals that added millions of dollars to the Players Association coffers, in particular his 1981 success in opening up the baseball card industry to competing companies. The move ended a quarter-century monopoly by the Topps Co., which was paying the players a paltry $125 apiece annually for the exclusive rights to their images.”
Disturbinbg news that might explain Leyland’s poor managing tn the series. Evidently daughter Patti was summoned to help him. This is just an excerpt, this is a teeribly unfortunate thing;
“Family members were quick to point out that they were all very proud of the Tigers manager.
“You see that sparkle in his eye once that first pitch is thrown, and you know you can’t take this away from him,” Leyland-Ford said. “But at the same time, you watch him try to take the field with his pants on backwards, or forget that Delmon Young has an OPS against lefties nearly 200 points higher than he does against righties, and you know he just can’t do it on his own anymore.”
Leyland-Ford’s husband, Ron Ford, went on the record Thursday saying he fully supports his wife taking some extra time to help her father, and noted that the Tigers were lucky to have her there making sure Jim eats and chooses a batting order using players on the team’s active roster.
“Sometimes I wonder if he would be better off in a little less stressful environment,” Ford said. “Managing a team in the World Series is a lot for somebody like Jim. I just think someplace like with the Royals or Astros might be a little more his speed.”
that’s devastating. the tigers are paying jim for his daughter to manage? you can’t believe they don’t know.
wow.
In other news, Alex got screwed.
Sheesh. What’s the back story? It makes it sound as if he has early-onset dementia, which would be no joke.
Sadder, less funny, and truer:
http://www.theonion.com/articles/oh-right-world-series,30169/
Why sad? I Tweeted it. (Sad because no one seemed to care?) Um, we did! #basking
There have been more than a few bitter posts on the Flap about East coast bias, regional SI covers etc. Basking is defined by the wider context — if the country doesn’t give a shit that SF won the WS, it does slightly diminish the satisfaction of winning a contest that’s already a bit puffed up by a misnomer.
Of course, the Onion is satire. It is an exaggeration.
http://literallyunbelievable.org/
Twin, stop posting The Onion stories here since it’s clear that many (including me) don’t know anything about that publication. If you’re trying to be funny with it qualify it. And if you have to qualify it, maybe the joke just isn’t that funny…….
Whatever. Just delete it. If you want me too, I will. I would have thought the pants on backward was a clue, but I guess not.James seemed to get it. And it *is* funny. All the more so when it’s thought to be true. If you want I’ll edit it saying it was a stupid non-funny joke. Of course then people will want to know how stupid it was.
GNight.