Gearing Up For the World Baseball Classic
Mark Purdy wrote an article at the Merc yesterday questioning why we should care about the WBC. It was quite USA-centric. I suppose he’s asking why Americans should care, since we aren’t sending *our best*. Every other team in this competition is sending their best and for the baseball fans of those countries I am guessing they care very much about the outcome of their team’s games. So if Purdy is asking the *world* if they care about the outcome of this competition he would probably get a very different answer than he would from a typical American.
I’m going to try to watch some of it and to answer Purdy’s question, I do care about how the USA does. We might not be sending all of our best players but those we are sending, I’m assuming, are proud to represent our country. And, if we can beat Cuba, a team that looks loaded with hitters, with less than our best team, in some ways, that’s almost BETTER than if we sent a team of all stars.
This is the same as the Olympics. Do we care about that? Well, for 2 weeks every 2 years I seem to care a little about skiing and ice skating and track and the 40 yard dash and floor routines and *even* certain swimming events. So I think I’ll muster the enthusiasm to root for the USA the same way I rooted for Michael Phelps. I don’t know why I was rooting for Phelps, I find swimming to be incredibly uninteresting, but there I am, every 4th year rooting for guys like Michael Phelps to bring a gold medal in swimming back home.
And if we get bounced out of this tourney the way we have twice before then maybe we decide to send better players next time to give us a better chance at winning. We did it in ’92 with the Dream Team. But who knows, maybe we won’t have to. I’m looking forward to Cuba trying to hit RA Dickey’s knuckleball.
A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball 
I would add a fourth choice –
I care a little bit – but NOT MORE than Spring Training.
I am more interested in seeing how those “bubble guys” do, in relation to grabbing one of those few open spots on the Giant’s roster, than cheering on the Red, White, and Blue (and I am very patriotic).
I will probably try to catch Friday’s game (I believe USA vs. Mexico).
I’m conflicted. I hate when our players are playing in it because if they get hurt, I will be pissed off. On the other hand, I would like the U.S.A. to whup some Latin American and Southeast Asian ass.
By the by, Paulinasia – your yahoo email account got hacked. I sent you a message indicating under no circumstances should you (or anyone else who received your email) open up the link. You need to do an anti-virus, malware, and registry scan. Also, change your password and mention to Yahoo, you got hacked. Hope you get it fixed. 🙂
I don’t care a lick about this Bud Selig invented event. IMO, it should be called the ATM, Anything To Make (a Buck).
I think it stinks.The risk of injury outweighs the glory of victory.You lose a key player for the season for this exhibition is not worth it to me.Yeah you can have the risk of injury anytime in ST or during the season but why add the extra risk for this?
Do like checking out the bubble guys and rising prospects in ST like Chi mentioned. You never know who tears it up and possibly makes the team.
I think it is way more interesting to watch some of the other teams than USA. It’s obviously big deal to Taiwan and Japan, and of course the latin countries, but I’d only watch after the Chinas and Italys of the world are eliminated and it gets down to best vs. best. That should be good baseball.
This is also a time when college and even local HS b-ball is heating up, end of reg season/conference tournaments (which I like even better than big dance) coming up. A gal who helps me coach in the asian rec league plays for a local public HS (and that knocked off SF private school Sacred Heart Cathedral) that is still alive in NorCal playoffs. It’s gonna be hard to drag me away from that, tho WBC would have a better chance than watching ST games, which I just can’t get into at all until A’s-SF final pre season games played here.
How is it more of an injury risk to play in a WBC game vs a spring training game?
If this sounds too pro-America, so be it be it: if our foreign born players want to represent their birth country, they should play for them full time.
As far as caring about the tourney itself, I hope Freedonia wins and Rufus T. Firefly saves the clincher..
“…Rufus T. Firefly saves the clincher..”…Nice. Love me some Marx Brothers…
I’m surprised to see you go with the love it or leave it angle here.
I might tune in to watch Vogey pitch, or maybe watch Pablo and Marco play for Venezuela, or Sergio for Mexico. But otherwise, I have very little interest in the WBC. LIke spring training, the only thing I’ll be rooting for is that none of our players get hurt in these exhibition games.
The Cactus League games are far more interesting, IMO, although wondering why Unca Goober let Hamels get destroyed by the DR yesterday is of some interest.
I would think the risk for injury is higher in the WBC games. More intensity to the games; the “everyday” players will be expected to play more innings per game, I would think. Pitchers might be taxed a little more. I’m just guessing.
Having said that, I don’t think the tourney is necessarily a bad thing. It’s trying to promote baseball around the world, and that ain’t a bad thing.
I love the fact these guys want to play for their home country. Utterly pointless in having the event otherwise.
It’s a cool concept, but the WBC really doesn’t interest me. I’d rather follow tweets and stories from ST..
Joe “Freakin” Torre is managing the team.That’s enough reason right now not to be interested.
Damm lucky Buster decided to bail,Torre would have gotten him killed at the plate.
How exactly does he do that?
I like the WBC concept but with spring training, the regular season and then playoffs, MLB just occupies too much of the calendar year. It is not a feasable tournament for MLB players to participate in.
The good to great players in the tournament are scattered across a bunch of teams and they’re playing in an artificial tournament for ersatz national pride. The Little League World Series, which always seems to be on restaurant and bar tvs every year, offers another international perspective on baseball. (Although I think one year all the kids from Saudi Arabia were Americans whose families worked in the oil industry.) The WBC seems too much like the same sort of baseball background music. It’s ok, but ST is a lot more interesting.
I’m mildly interested in the WBC. Baseball is an international game, so I’m down with the idea of a world tournament, particularly since the corrupt Olympic poobahs decided to toss it from the Olympics (seriously, no wrestling now in the Olympics — they can’t make any money off of it, and the women won’t watch it on tape delay at night). The top baseball powers in the Carribbean and Central and S American and Asia contribute players to MLB, so I’ve got no problem with US born players going to play for their ethnic heritage countries. It adds some spice to the situation, obviously, and US fans can better identify and get into the games that way. As for getting hurt, I don’t see much difference of the risk between this and ST. A pitcher can strain an elbow throwing to some guy from S. Korea just as easily as he can throwing to some no name minor leaguer in Mesa in the “B” game of a split squad day. A hitter can take one of his wrist from a Cuban flamethrower in San Juan just as easily as take one off of some 27 year old AAA dude humping up to make an impression out at Salt Shaker Fields at Crooked Talking Stick in Phoenix…
Played Talking Stick once Snarkk.Great course to bomb the Driver, wide fairways.
I still can’t believe the removal of wrestling. Is that decision final? I thought it was a recommendation at this point. Either way, just entertaining the removal of the oldest type of competition known to man is unbelievable.
Wrestling was among several sports canned for 2020 as not to be in the 25 “core” sports. http://espn.go.com/olympics/wrestling/story/_/id/8939185/ioc-drops-wrestling-2020-olympics. Here are the 25 “core” sports for 2020. http://www.olympic.org/news/ioc-executive-board-recommends-25-core-sports-for-2020-games/190772
The sports canned all have the chance to appeal for reinstatement as an additional sport beyond the “core”, but apparently only one will be re-instated. It’s a money play, that’s what the Olympics is all about now. Synchronized swimming and rhythmic gymnastics with flag waving — that’s fine. But, wrestling, maybe the oldest Olympic sport known to man other than running, is about to be dropped. Dan Gable types from all over the world are no longer worthy of being Olympians? I suppose wrestling’s had its share of doping issues, but I haven’t heard it being worse than any others — and weight lifting is still in the 2020 “core”. The Olympics are no longer about sport, they’re about the moolah. When I was in high school, the wrestling dudes were always in their wrestling room with the big mat, or out on the track running their asses off. You’d walk by the wrestling room door, if it was open, the sweat stench was unbelievable. A lot of the kids made fun of the wrestlers as dorky, but a few of us knew better. We had wrestling in PE once for a week or something. Brutal. That sport is rough, you need to be in tip top aerobic shape, or you’re going to be crushed. And, the wrestling dudes had muscles, none of that phoney baloney weightlifting muscle. The real deal, strong as cable type muscles. If I needed a dude to have my back in a fight, I’d probably pick a wrestler over a football guy. Strong, and better endurance. Wrestling really only has one venue that promotes it, and where the dedicated wrestler can achieve the ultimate. That’s the Olympics. I can’t really think of any “athletes” that are more worthy of that word than wrestlers…
All of the prime-time Olympic women’s beach volleyball TV coverage became laughably absurd. It couldn’t get more cynical. There’s still a lot to like about the Olympics, but there’s definitely some changes that need to be made….
I did appreciate that there was a lot of Olympic coverage across several network channels. There was a variety of choices.
I like the WBC if only because it encourages baseball in countries not name America or Japan.
I’d like to see Israel v Germany. hehe Canada fields a good team and Venezuela has 2 of my favorite Giants.
It is certainly as good as watching Fullerton play college ball.
I’m very interested in seeing Cuba play– mostly their hitters. Too bad Cespedes can’t play for them again–bet he’d kill to play with those dudes one more time. But what do I know, maybe they hate him for defecting.
I think it’s fantastic that these guys get to play for their home countries on such a big stage. The “Pablo Sandoval’s” spend their whole lives dreaming of making it to the major leagues and then when they do there’s a piece of themselves they have to leave behind. Shit, I’d be bummed if I had to leave the US to fulfill my drama of playing at the highest level.
Remember that video of Sandoval running out his HR while his countrymen went crazy? He’s never looked so happy in a home run trot before. I can’t imagine what that was like for him– or what it will be like for him to play for Venezuela in the WBC. He’s gotta be feeling like he’s living a dream …
Romo vs. Sandoval in a 9th inning confrontation in a close game is the kind of thing that would make the WBC an interesting thing.
I guess it’s a slidings scale. The real baseball countries–Venezuela, Cuba, DR and Japan, in particular–field good, genuinely national teams. But at the other end of the spectrum, as proud as Sir Bam Bam Muelens may be of his knighthood, or as fond as he may be of tulips and wooden shoes, I don’t see much Dutch connection to the game.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/friv/placeofbirth.cgi?TYPE=active&from=1851&to=2012&DIV=countries&submit=Run+Query
I like the WBC and Spring Training games about the same. It’s baseball on TV, and that’s a cool thing.
Hosmer replacing Texieria– the USA just got better. And I think Hos is gonna have a very nice year for the Royals in 2013
I think there’s about 12 people watching this Italy/Mexico game lol.. Actually that’s Italy playing the Angels. I just got home and flipped it on. 9th inning, Angels leading 12-5
Here’s a little fact I don’t remember anyone mentioning (maybe somebody did)- the Giants pitching staff had the second to lowest average speed on fastballs in MLB in 2012. So, the Giants hit the fewest homeruns, and pitched the second to slowest fastballs, and won the World Series. You gotta love it.
Hadn’t heard “slowest fastball” stat but sounds about right. Yes, if you assign slow and weak and then put “world series win” after it, that’s rad
It was mentioned in one of the season preview magazines. I don’t think they gave the source of the stat.
MLB hitters can hit 97 mph fastballs. It’s not easy, but they can do it. Giants staff has a lot of guys that throw the ball with some sort of a bend in it. Harder to hit that, for sure. As for HRs, I wouldn’t mind a few more from Giants bats this year. 15 or 20 more would be nice. With Panda hopefully healthy all season, and maybe Belt hitting a few, plus Pence here all season, that should be doable, if not a few more…
I love Chris Rose and I think he and Millar are hilarious together
I advocate for playing for the country one is a citizen of. Or just leave the US out of it if we’re not sending out our best.
Go Rufus!
Regarding Flav’s question about “how is it more of an injury risk to play in this gig vs. Spring Training?” In my opinion, Giants players are under the direction or guidance of the organization coaches, strength trainers, etc. Under their auspices – they do it the “Giants way.” Consequently, they only have themselves (organization) to blame if a player is injured, especially if it is due to overwork, wrong technique, physical training methods, etc.
I posted a new thread on my blog. Hope you’re all well. 🙂
I don’t think I’ve told you what a great blog you have, Steve. It’s beautiful.
Thank you Michael. I’m amazed at how Flav has turned one out for the last 4 years (or is it 5?) . . . I like your blog too and I suspect that you’re probably thinking the same thing I am with regard to writing blogs: It takes a whole lot of discipline and perserverence to do one. Consequently, I am even more amazed that Flav has been able to do this for so long. That being said, IT’S A LOT OF FUN! So perhaps, that’s why Flav, you, I, and others blog.
I just got back from a one day tour of Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia. What an amazing city. I met some wonderful people on this tour that made it even more enjoyable.
I doubt all of a sudden that the USA players are under the thumb of Joe Torre and assistants for their conditioning. Surely the players are adhering in some form or fashion to conditioning schedules set by their own teams and communicated to the USA team coordination. The Giants supposedly have given Panda a conditioning schedule he is to adhere to while in the WBC. And, I doubt Torre would, for example, make Vogelsong pitch 9 innings. There are 15 pitchers on the USA staff to allow for proper stretch out as if in ST, along with 13 position guys, so nobody should be overworked over a possible total of what, 6 to 8 games? Otherwise, the teams wouldn’t let their players participate…
You’re probably right snarkk. I just would hate to have a Giant hurt on one of these gigs. Shit, I sort of hate it when our players get selected to the All Star game. However, that’s mostly because I am so competitive and I want the Giants to get their rest and relaxation in, so they are locked and loaded for the second half division title drive. LOL.
There are very few things I give a fuck about anymore.
The WBC is definitely not one of them.
To me WBC is the World Boxing Council.
FWIW, no verification, but this guy Joe Bisceglie pegged Melky before it got out.
He’s saying Robinson Cano, Alex Rodriguez, Curtis Granderson, and Ryan Braun are all getting 50-game suspensions.,…
http://www.sportsgrid.com/mlb/robinson-cano-alex-rodriguez-curtis-granderson-and-ryan-braun-might-face-50-game-ped-related-suspensions-this-season/
They should give Braun 100 games off.
And take away his MVP.
Braun had a dirty test result last year, and survived suspension only because a doofus arbitrator saw malfeasance in the handling of a sample where there was absolutely none, according to MLB protocols and standard practice in other sports. I won’t be surprised if this turns out true, since no player in MLB can be assumed clean of PEDs. If true, it would be amusing, in some way, that you’ve got 3 big time Yankees involved, and actually testing dirty, which Bonds never officially did. A-Rod already admitted to doping, so in another way, this would not be much news with respect to him, other than why would he get only a 50 gamer, since he admitted using before? That’s how stupid this stuff is…
If MLB and the players were serious about PEDs, they’d forget about this talk about upgrading the penalties. Just agree that if there is a positive test, the player’s team has the option of voiding the rest of the player’s contract, unless the player can prove the team was in on the deal. If you have to start from square one on your contract, the incentive for using the PEDs is really reduced. Getting docked 50 or a 100 games or even a year’s worth of losing your pay is worth the risk of using PEDs if you get a 6 year deal for 80 million or whatever. But, if the team can void the deal in year 2 after a dirty test, that’s huge…
I can hear the players and the union reps respond to that proposal. False positives may be the lynch pin of their argument. Personally, I have no idea how likely false positives may be.
The players union would go ballistic.
Well, the players have already agreed to penalties for positive tests, so if they’re concerned about false positives, they’ve already gotten past that. I read a lot about the testing stuff when the Braun deal went down last season. They’ve used the lab(s) to test that are used for the Olympics, supposedly the best labs available in the world, and a multiple test and samples protocol is used. The chance of false positives has been reduced to as small as it can be, whatever that is, to the point where a fact finder in litigation would be hard pressed to agree without evidence of intentional malfeasance by the lab. That’s why the Braun thing was so ridiculous. There was no evidence presented that the lab in Montreal botched the testing. The argument came down to how long the sample sat in the tester’s refrigerator over the weekend, and who might have had access to it. Even though that procedure IMO clearly did NOT break any protocols agreed to (I read them), and the package plus the multiple seals on each sample were fully intact upon arrival at the lab; plus there was no ID problem that the samples were Braun’s…
I think the 50-100 game suspension incremental punishment is the compromise the union made in light of the false-positive problem vs. the need for enforcement. There may be other issues they’ve pushed. I don’t know. But the union and the player definitely have not gotten past the false positive problem.
They’ve gotten past the false positive issue for minor penalties, you mean. If it means more than a slap on a wrist, they may not agree with a protocol that is good enough to take away gold medals and suspend Olympic athletes. Which is hypocritical, if that is what their position is. I heard on the radio the other day that many players are now supporting stronger penalties, because they (supposedly the clean ones) are tired of being painted with the brush of PEDs use. If true, the “false positive” issue may not be as strong as you think it is…
My personal experience with drug testing is ancient. I was a railroad brakeman in the 80s, before I went back to school, and the RRs started testing us after the Reagan recession, as part of a down-sizing plan. Also, coincidentally, a fairly cheap and accurate test for marijuana had just become available. This was in the days of the poppy-seed-bagel false positives. I realize that technology is a million times better today. But the principle is the same. The union has no choice but to balance the likelihood of true positives against the possibility of false. A guy who gets tagged with three positives — well, I’m not a statistician, but I think I can estimate the odds. So the 50-game, 100-game, and then banishment progression the union has endorsed makes some sense. Letting contracts go up in smoke over test results would give a huge amount of power to the testers. A “labor” union, as somewhat absurd as its role in this context may be, can’t relinquish so much for all of its members.
1st positive should be one year, 2nd suspension, banned for life. This pussy footing around is buillshit. This’ll be another feather in the cap of the hypocricy of the drug testing program.
Fucking Melky gets a 2/16 deal after his positive. Plus he gets a ring. and he got 1/3 of the season off.
Poor guy.
Fucking Braun crows about the ‘justice’ of his technicality? Christ.
Agreed 100%…
I just tune it out, We’re the World Fuckin’ Champs. Again.
The 2010 & 2012 teams had their share of juicers.
And it’s fine with me.
If MLB and the players union don’t get on top of this shit quickly, MLB will have yet another black eye and fans will will leave. I’d rather root for clean little leaguers than a bunch of dirty MLB players.. Cheaper, too.
You can’t close the door on this- the PED era is here to stay. So what the hell, who’s using on the Giants? Remember-they don’t have to be good, and there’s no reliable profile. Who are our lovable band of cheatin’ bastards? We know we’ve got ’em.
Get used to it.
You’re right.
Me? I am in the PED camp. They let the “genie out of the bottle,” so live with it. Actually, embrace it.
Let’s get some damn rules outlining their safe use. Either that or get rid of the sham that is the Hall Of Fame. I am on the same page as Mike and anyone else here who thinks they are here to stay, so why not get some frickin’ rules or guidelines sanctioned by MLB???? MLB should hire physician specialists that can write the program on their purchase and use. I don’t have it all worked out in my head . . . someone smarter than me has already done that. I have seen articles on these proposals and it makes sense. What we have now is a cluster fuck of “smoke and mirror” prohibition rules that are not effective. I still suspect that 25% of the players are taking some form of PED.
By the by, an excellent column was written by Roger Cohen on Adderal addiction by college students. This is a PED too in my opinion. Sorry, I don’t have the link to his column. Google his name and I think you can find it though . . .
Blade, the pro sports leagues are going to have some form of PED control. They have to; first for public consumption, and especially for MLB, to keep Congress off its back from that reccurring, annoying threat of removing that cute little anti-trust exemption that helps MLB make the $ billions it does. At this point, I don’t give a rat’s ptuut about who’s using PEDs. I used to, but not anymore. Because I’ve learned that guys are going to continue to use ’em, and they won’t get caught unless they’re idiots, or until MLB really gets serious about stopping their use, which it isn’t, and likely won’t. MLB is not really serious about the A’s moving anywhere, the Budster and his anonymous blue ribbon panel have studied it for half a decade and nothing happens. Similarly, MLB isn’t serious about stopping PEDs use, either. So, I’m down with embracing it, as in, I just assume lotsa guys, like before, are using something, and you don’t know who is and who isn’t, so screw it, just play ball…
That’s the frustrating part.. Not knowing who is on them, false accusations, etc..
Blade’s opinion would work for me, but as Snarkk pointed out, it would never happen.. So we’re stuck with the status quo… IMO, either MLB needs to allow the use of PEDs like Blade said, or get seriously tough on users – like lifetime bans – news that would seriously rock the sporting world and shake it’s foundations.. I don’t think either is going to happen, so, we’re stuck in this rut. And it’s not fun as a fan. All or nothing, not this tiddly wink half-assed BS that MLB and the players union are playing..
Yeah, Chico, it’s a kind of a limbo situation, but I’ve come to terms with it in my favorite sport. I had no idea, no idea, that Melky was doing PEDs. And, I saw him all the time. On MY team. It wasn’t like he was bombing dingers every game. He was hitting line drives, legging out doubles, making throws from the OF. He was just ballin’. Some may have GUESSED he was up to something, given his past in Atlanta, Royals and the Yanks, but hell, he’d lost weight from Atlanta, was in good shape, obviously was playing for a contract, and didn’t look like the Michelin man. Melky’s deal convinced me that I’m not going to care about PEDs anymore. Because if I’m clueless that a dude on my OWN TEAM that I see all the time was using shit, and supposedly the team management was clueless, than HOWINHELL am I supposed to know who else is using on the other 29 teams? I can’t know, and MLB and the players apparently don’t care much, so I’ve decided also not to care. As Jeff Kent used to say on KNBR — I’m going to just “enjoy the game”…
Yeah, good point. It’s one of those things that is tough to accept for me.. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not some puritan born again Christian or anything, (far from it ;), it’s just tough to swallow, that’s all. For a second there I really thought they had gotten a handle on it, but in all reality, it’s just as bad as it ever was.. I want to see some Dodgers on that PED list soon!
I’ve said it before, but great blog you guys have here..
I wonder if it’s even possible to implement a law in the United States, where someone is denied employment for life? Snarkk and other attorneys would know better than I. Just wondering if that would be impossible to implement. I know Pete Rose was banned from the HOF, but this is different. Shoeless Joe Jackson’s situation is different too, since they didn’t have civil and employment rights that were as stringent as they are now. Anyone with an opinion, please provide . . .
Didn’t they ban Armstrong for life? Athletes shelf life is so short, that even a 10-15 yr ban could effectively end their career.
Blade, the pro sports at the major league level are governed by the collective bargaining agreement between management and the union. If the CBA agreement includes penalties that would include a lifetime ban from playing, then it controls. Outside of a CBA, nobody can be officially denied making a living short of being incarcerated for a crime, or banned from practicing medicine for cause after due process, and things of that nature. The NBA and NFL are on thin legal ground IMO when they deny underclassmen otherwise old enough to work legally, the ability to be eligible for their drafts. If some college kid tested those rules, I think the leagues would lose, probably under some equal protection or similar constitutional argument. I’ve railed against the NCAA and colleges re: their role in providing free fodder for the NFL and NBA, so I won’t rant about that here…
Chemists are always going to be ahead of the curve, and always have been. The trainers will tell guys they won’t get caught, and the training/recovery benefits are obvious. Bigger faster stronger won’t ever go away….”using” is here to stay. Just hope it doesn’t trickle down with unreliable guidelines, to HS kids.
Statement W last night by Stanford at Cal. The Pac 12 is embarrassing itself every weekend as the conference no one wants to win. I bet they get more teams in the NIT than NCAA, and conference tourney is a total crapshoot….emphasis on first part of that word. Who does monty shove now?
Well. IMO, the first thing to understand is that baseball does not care about players using PEDs except from a PR POV. Additionaly, there is little to show how much they improve performance- I’ll show the link to the list- in many cases they have been performance *de-hancing” in practice. Another point I’m not going to argue because it’s fruitless- it could not be argued that it’s not a level playing field if they are available to all or that there is anything inherently wrong in using these substances to increase performance.
As far enacting enacting draconian penalties that deny a person employment in their chosen field, pro sports get away with a lot that would be illegal in the work place (see the NFL PCP, and they already are abusing player’s rights in this- whether we believe him or not, supposedly baseball believed that Mota accidently took some child’s cough medicine that contained a banned substance. If so, his penalty was outrageous. In any case, these substances are generally used to aid in injury recovery, the ability to train harder more effectively, and build muscle mass- this is worthy of all the hysteria?
This link is not up date, but it’s good to show that are obviously other factors beyond PEDs that affect performance among users.
http://www.baseballssteroidera.com/bse-list-steroid-hgh-users-baseball.html
The second baseman of the future?
Are the new rebuilt Buster Posey..
Come on to the plate now Scott Cousins.
No wonder they have so many of those pesky oblique injuries.
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