What is a Proper Punishment for PED Use?
I’m just creating a thread for this since you guys started kicking it around on the last one and I’ve got nothing to post unless you all want to talk about Tim Lincecum’s blister. Next.
My two cents: I’m not even going to look up what the current punishment is. I seem to remember it starts with a 50 game ban and a second violation gets you 100 games. Not sure what happens if you’re caught a third time. I don’t like the idea of a 100 game suspension for a first violation and a lifetime ban for a second one. I’m not against the death penalty for criminals but I don’t think it’s appropriate for a baseball infraction. PED’s will always be part of the game and I don’t like the idea of one guy getting a lifetime ban and a bunch of other guys using them freely–just cause they’re smarter than the dude who got caught (or they have more $ to buy the best masking drugs) is not a reason to bounce those who are caught for life.
Anyway, what do you guys think?
A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball 
No dessert for one week.
i like suspension and voiding of the contract. if you get past the appeals and all that and it’s decided that they are guilty, what’s the difference in what the punishment is?
I agree about the length of suspensions, Flav, and am not down with any lifetime bans for the reasons you mention. I agree with Michael and others that PEDs are here to stay. Cheating (whatever the form) has been with the game since its inception (doctoring balls, amphetamines, roids, etc.), and players will continue to seek out the latest and greatest that do what they want, and helps them mask it, etc.
Just legalize their fricking use, and put some type of rules and parameters around their use.
On the other point from yesterday’s thread…the World Boxing Council…er, I mean the World Baseball Classic: I heard John Smoltz today saying that perhaps a short tournament that takes the place of the All Star game would be better. One of the problems with the WBC being during ST, many players are trying to get into playing shape, are not at their peak performance, and that is one of the reasons they choose not to participate. Have the WBC mid-season when everyone is grooving, and you would have better participation/more realistic representation. Anyway…I just thought it was an interesting spin (and supposedly this has been discussed).
I don’t like the idea of stopping in mid-season for 10 -14 days so these countries can play each other. It would be more of a joke than it is now, since the players would have no time to organize into actual teams; they’d have to just show up off the plane, suit up, and start playing for their country. At least with this pre-season approach, they can assimilate into and practice with their “teams” a little bit. Plus, there’s no mid-season disruption…
Not saying I agree with it. Just a different perspective. And if I am a team that is clicking on all cylinders at the mid-point, don’t think I want to take a couple of week break for the WBC.
So, what was the answer to the question you posed on the BBOTD page yesterday, Flav (what the three had in common)?
All 3 were the same chick
Damn…coulda fooled me. Well, I will always love her in the “surf” pict…
Well hell I said that yesterday.I will take the credit and parade drum roll.
Loo has it right…
If trying to get an edge warrants punishment, ban sports.Whether it’s good for the athlete health wise is an irrelevant argument as to whether it merits punishment. If it’s a BFD to someone to punish these guys, do it because they’re idiots and leave the bullshit morality out of it.
Make them sit at the table until they finish all of their vegetables.
Or,
First offense – The player has to live and hang with Bud Selig for a month.
Second offense – Well there never would be one, would there?
The death-penalty analogy is, obviously, hyperbolic, but it’s apt, too. Take a look at the drug agreement documents on bizofbaseball.com. The protocols are unbelievably strict. (The team getting tested receives about one-day notice, but the agents sent to the ballpark to test don’t even get the list of the selected players they’ll test until they’re en route in the big black SUV with smoked windows.) The sort of high-stakes attention to detail that the state must use when seeking and enforcing the death penalty really does in some ways resemble the mlb/union’s zero-tolerance approach to PED testing. You’re talking about a guy’s career, or shot at a career. You’d better not screw it up.
We don’t get glimpses of how oppressive the testing process is, how huge a part of the game it has become, unless someone tests positive and gets suspended. Then we get a quick look. Similarly, most of us don’t really understand how hugely expensive the death penalty is — and I’m not talking about the death-row costs alone. In California, the death penalty clogs the courts, particularly the supreme court’s, dockets. Imposing the death penalty requires two trials–one to decide guilt and one to decide to execute. Then the convict has an automatic right to force the state supreme court to review it all. As a result, the overworked supreme court declines to review the majority of other appellants who petition for review.
So just as it makes sense to abolish the death penalty and redirect all of those misspent state resources into something more productive, it makes sense to accept better life through chemistry and regulate PED use rather than spend a fortune trying in vain to abolish it. I’m in favor of lessening the penalties. The links TF posts on these issues contain a lot of good information and proposals. imo.
Any offender should automatically have to play for the Houston Astros the following season.
Chi, you can’t “legalize” PEDs in the baseball sense. Steroids and any kind of testosterone precursors are a federal controlled class III substance — the same class as barbiturates, tranquilizers, painkillers like Vicodin. Possession without a prescription is a federal crime, and sale/distribution of them is obviously a more serious crime. So, baseball can’t legalize within baseball the use of something which if used/sold outside the ballpark gates is a serious federal crime. That is another thing that is so amusing to me about PEDs use in sports. You have guys testing positive for steroid and artificial testosterone use or even admitting it like A-Rod, yet the Justice Dept. won’t go after them for committing a federal crime, unless of course you’re Barry Bonds — a guy who did NOT admit using PEDs knowingly, or ever officially tested positive for using them, and they went after him for allegedly fibbing about it…
Obviously, they *can* be legalized… by prescribing them- just some are already prescribed, often for the same reason they would be for use in sports.
Agree, Michael.
Doctors cannot “legalize” scheduled drugs by just prescribing them. If the prescription is a fraud and a ruse for illicit use of the drugs, then the MD and the user are in criminal trouble under the statutes. If that were not true, you’d have hundreds of MLB players regularly using “prescription” testosterone and steroids. There are lots on ADHD drugs already, but rampant “prescription” steroid and testosterone use is obviously a legalized bridge too far…
Of course doctors cannot prescribe drugs willy-nilly without regards to the law. But it’s not true that PEDs can’t be prescribed legally- that part is at the discretion of the physician, and proper regulation is the key. There are perfectly legal and ethical reasons that many may be ordered- it’s not against the law that substances can be utilized to increase endurance, injury recovery, build muscle mass- it’s the sport, not law, that impose arbitrary limits that may be restrictive but not illegal. Again, this needs rational discussion by medical professionals, not yahoos..
Medical professionals and lawyers like you? Of course PEDs can be prescribed “legally”. Did I say they couldn’t be? They can’t be prescribed illegally, i.e., for reasons other than for what illness or condition the drug is designed to remedy. Why else would players go to BALCO to get their shit — because legit MDs won’t prescribe the shit for them for illicit uses, at risk of losing their license to practice and going to jail. Why is that so hard for you to understand and turn it into some sort of argument? There’s nothing controversial about it, other than you may not like how the law works. So, talk to your Congressman and get steroids off the Schedule III list. Meanwhile, if you want to ask your MD for a couple of cycles worth of steroids and testosterone prescribed for the diagnosis of “so he can pump more iron at the local Golds”, be my guest. If you get it, let Melky know, he may want a referral…
Blade, I responded in yesterday’s thread to your question about lifetime bans…
I saw that snarkk. What you said about Congress (and already enacted laws) prohibiting their use; as well as the anti-trust exemption makes sense, insofar as ensuring MLB minimally do what they are doing now. Same deal with the players having little or no recourse, should they be popped for banned PEDs (per the bargaining agreement).
Thanks!
Gone home too soon…RIP Alvin Lee.
Sad news…one of the all-time great rock guitarists. Loved him (and Ten Years After) in high school (Cricklewood Green, Watt, etc.). RIP…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bW5M5xljdCI
And one of my favorite Alvin Lee/TYA songs…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJE5tvWiIQk
I thought Alvin the Chipmunk had passed away, that’s out of touch I am..
Good comments about PED use.. After sleeping on it, I say fuck it.. If we don’t know who is doing them unless they are caught, and since MLB isn’t going to get super serious about their use, then I’m wasting my time worrying about the use of them.
Agree with Srarkk, Bonds was the fed’s whipping post.. How many millions did the investigation cost? What did he get fined, 5 thousand bucks? That’s some serious Ostrich egg on the fed’s faces..
PED testing bores me. Next subject.
Awright.
Lincecum’s blister.
Pickle juice or super glue?…
Timmeh can just piss on his hands.That’s the what Moises Alou always did.
Always wondered why his bat handle was yellow.
Maybe Timmeh will develop a new pitch.
Not the splitter.
Not the spitter.
Yep, the pisser…
Kat beat me to it…tell Timmy to piss on his hands…scratched again…now they are saying Saturday will be his next outing…
DH? It sucks…
Oops, sorry about the big youtube link… I thought the url would show up, not the big ass TV screen.
Damm that’s a bummer about Alvin Lee.Use to see him at Winterland .10 YEARS AFTER Fantastic Band!!!RIP Alvin you were one of the all-time best on Electric Guitar!!!!!
Yeah, Alvin Lee used to play the Keystone PA all the time. Incredible guitar player. He seemed to fight the whole guitar god label after Woodstock. A Space in Time album is about 80 acoutsic and is outstanding.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGpGQYbOzg8
Uh-oh. Romo just blew a save — with a little help from the Mexico LF — vs. Italy.
Bounced from the playoff by SF and now Chris Carpenter and Rafael Furcal out for the season. I wonder if Beltran regets his signing decision? Or Ichiro for that matter. I remember seeing some rumors that SF expressed interest in him before he signed with NY. I would have like to see an Ichiro, Pagan, Pence OF but it wasn’t meant to be. Now A-Rod and Texeira out with injuries and possibly Cano and Granderson if the suspension rumors are true. Must be awesome.
Blue Jays are looking better every day for the AL East. On paper. They look kinda like the Dodgers, AL style. Lots of dough dropped, no way to know if it will work…
As T.Boswell wrote;
“In the past eight months, the Dodgers, Blue Jays and Angels have assembled players with every headache known to the sport. Greinke, Hanley Ramirez, Josh Beckett, Carl Crawford, Adrian Gonzalez, Jose Reyes, Melky Cabrera and Josh Hamilton have three traits in common: big talent, fat contracts and thorny issues that led previous employers to trade them as part of salary dumps or else pursue them tepidly when they became free agents.”
http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2013-02-27/sports/37326525_1_zack-greinke-tigers-nats
Dirt, somehow the Cards always seem to land on their feet. I don’t think the loss of either of those guys will derail the Cards. Their division isn’t that strong (Milwaukee is decent), and they’ve got a flamethrower Pen. Plus the Cards farm system always somehow seems to be stocked at the ready. I suspect they will be in the division hunt again in September…
PED?? well how do you evaluate talent if everyone is doing them? as far as punishment, our countries own war on drugs is a prime example of how things are going. Now as far as punishment for taking a band substance?? well do you do it the way the courts do it? Misdemeanor or a felony. Or is it a felony for all. If you want to truely abolish the problem. You ban the player for a year. That sends a message to the players, the coaches and the owners. You have to punish all three for anything to be effective.
I’d say the current upgraded MLB drug policy is a joke. Melky gets popped, what’s his punishment? 50 games, and loss of way less than a $million; then his additional penalty is a new 2 year deal with Toronto for $16 million. Boy, that hurts. Colon with the A’s? He got popped, then the 50 game see ‘ya. Then, the A’s turned around and gave him a new one year deal for $3 million. Ouch, that one hurt so much. How can Selig say with a straight face that this thing is working? The ownership themselves reward the caught abusers with exactly the thing that was the player’s goal for using in the first place — more guaranteed dough…
Tar & Feather these offenders now.Or just Stone them, and burn em on a Stake.
Heck, Kat.
Do what the owners do.
Give ’em a raise…
I’ll tell you who should receive the death penalty- my sister. Who just sent me the computer I built my Mom years ago.She sent all the crap that went with it- in 6 fucking boxes, each filled 99 percent with packing peanuts. She *will* die, it’s just a matter of how painful I will make it.
Hilarious Twin!!
Send her back the boxes all stuffed. with Zeke’s turds.
I hate packing peanuts. With a passion…
The Panda hits a two-run double to score Scutaro and another runner, as Venezuela trails the DR 5-2.
This game is loaded with major leaguers.
I love Stevie Nicks singing “Landslide,” a terrific song, but that Clydesdale commercial has gotten old.
hilarious commercial with the g’s re-creating the “it’s not over until we say it’s over” scene from Animal House. Pence is blutto of course, giving the speech. posey is otter, bumgarner is stork, belt has a great mustache and does d-day and the capper is our own timmy l as boone.
if romo can’t save a game against the eye-talians, what use is he?
You got a link? I can’t find it on google.
i don’t think they have posted it yet. they’re waiting until it hits the airwaves. you might try comcastsportsbayarea
Tolbert on his “minute” bit lamented the death of william moody, aka Paul Bearer yesterday. Nice story confirming same on yahoo sports, btw, complete with tweets from those in the business.
My vegas buddy and my fool cousin (former roommates) watched every wrestling show they could find on cable, including the mexican version. One night (20 yrs ago maybe) my buddy and I took my godson and his little brother and their stepdad to the Cow palace and last bout was Undertaker vs. Sid Vicious. A white casket is at ringside, and eventually Sid thrashed U and stuffs him in the casket while Paul Bearer is throwing a fit outside the ring. Minute or so later the lid pops open and undertaker sits up. Pretty funny stuff…tho nothing compared to watching the crowd, which included non other than Ann Calvello that night.
First violation = one year ban, second violation = lifetime ban.
But I do think there should be some system of *possible* reduced suspensions for offenders who can prove that their ingestion of a banned substance was through simple negligence rather than willful intent. It would kinda suck for a guy who fails a test over some random low-level stimulant in his cough medicine to get the same punishment as a guy like A-Rod who had a small army of drug dealers mainlining HGH into his system.
Shit, on that, you could sleep and get stronger at the same time!
As long as the blood test includes heroin combined with the PED–‘sall good
Heroin and steroids together — would that be called a “fastball”, “splitter”, “slurve”, or “cutter”?…
That really depends on the actual ingrediants of the PED.
But, in general–I guess it would be called:
PHOWOOVLAKLENTINEFARFLAVEN!!!!!!!
My post above was meant to be a reply to tedspe.. These Racer 5’s coupled with my 35th B-day are getting to me..
Either way doesn’t make sense but we still love you chico
REVRETT!! And a freakin’ HAPPY BIRTHDAY to you, lad!
Nodding off, Roids? Made sense to me! Thanks tedspe.
One last thought on Alvin Lee.
“I’d Love To Change The World” is one of the most beautiful songs ever written. Most beautiful song ever guitared (and if that’s not a word–it should be)
And most every asshole that hears it says “God, I love Eric Clapton”
Fuck you assholes!!
And R.I.P. Alvin. You were one of my heroes. I’m truly, and I say this because I think you’d appreciate it–forlorn
God Bless All Flappers!!!
hit ’em where they live, cash fine = one month’s salary on first offence, two months on second in addition to lost wages due to the suspension. these cash fines to be used to educate amateur and youth sportsmen and/or to support detection efforts/research. Second offense @ major and minor leagues = 1 year!!!
http://brewernation.mlblogs.com/2013/02/16/mlb-networks-top-100-players-right-now-heading-into-2013/
I’m sure you have the ‘A Space in Time’ album, Ted. One of Alvin’s best. I posted that Hard Monkeys song. Love the aucoustic/electric/acoustic fades back and forth.
As far as PEDs go, maybe my one and done is too harsh, but then ‘penalties’ now are lame. The impact to him was minimal, as I’ve said since it happened. And, as I said back then. he’d land on his feet this season anyway, so the deterrent for him was the summer off, a ring, and a shiny new contract with a brand-new team.
I’d say 1st positive, one year suspension. 2nd, 2 year suspension, team sanctions as well. 3rd, done.
The talley for positives should be tracked and penalized on a team level as well.