The Dark Years: 2005-2008
Seeing Todd Linden’s story in the Chron made me think about unhappier times in our history. After the Giants won 91 games in 2004 the team nosedived for the next 4 seasons. Not surprisingly, 2004 was also the last great year for Barry Bonds. He would retire after the 2007 season. Every team goes through lulls in their franchise history (except the St Louis Cardinals, for some reason) but the Giants slide into 4 years of less than average was easy to see after it happened. Sabean had spent the better part of his GM career placing secondary vet pieces around Barry, largely ignoring developing talent at the minor league level. When Barry stopped slathering flaxseed oil all over his body, the Giants had no answers………
Obviously, he fixed the flaws in his GM game and he is now one of the underrated yet brilliant GM’s in the game.
Let’s look at some of the prospects and non-prospects from the Dark Years who somehow made it into a regular season SF Giants jersey:
1) Lance Niekro. The Giants took him in the 2nd round of the 2002 amateur draft and he made his first appearance with the club in 2003. In 2005 he played in 113 games for SF and banged out 12 bombs. After JT retired he was the opening day first baseman in 2006. That day was probably the last highlight of his career. He last played in the big leagues in 2007 and reportedly had tried to turn himself into a knuckle ball pitcher in 2009. It did not go well.
2) Dan Ortmeier: at baseball almanac it says he doesn’t have a nickname but we know that to be untrue. He is the great “Ort-Rod” who played in SF over the course of 4 seasons. He hit all six of his career home runs in 2007. He signed iwth Colorado and played for their PCL team in 2009. No info on him since then.
3) Brian Bocock: he was drafted in the 6th round of the 2006 amateur draft. Average glove/no hit, he was actually in the opening day starting line up that was quite possibly the worst opening day starting line up in the history of the SF Giants. I challenge any of you to find a worse opening day starting line up than this: Molina, Aurilia, Durham, Castillo, Bigcock, Roberts, Rowand, Winn and Zito. Not surprisingly, we lost to the Dodgers 5-0. Bigcock’s big moment in baseball was that day, he scored 93 underwhelming at bats that season hitting .143. He hooked up with Philly somehow and had 5 at bats in 2010 for them. No hits. 2 runs. Bye Bye Bigcock. I think he’s in Japan now.
4) Todd Linden: a 2001 1st round pick, he played in parts of 5 seasons for the Giants, ;ast appearing in the majors with Florida in 2007. he’s been to Japan and elsewhere and now he’s back in the Giants org providing adequate minor league depth for Fresno.
5) Brian Dallimore. He wasn’t drafted by SF, he signed as a free agent in 2002. Somehow, he was called up in 2004 and hit his one career home run that year. I forget the circumstances, but I recall it being a very big hit that won the game for us that day. I’m sure others will remember it in more detail. He had 7 plate appearances for the Giants in 2005 and never played at the mlb level again. I’m assuming he found a way to feed his family with the Stanford degree he had to fall back on.
There were others, Brian Horwitz, Kevin Frandsen, John Bowker, Coner Gillespe, Ryan Rohlinger……it’s a long, sad list. And this thread is starting to make me sad so I’ll stop now………
All of these guys wish they could have had half the career that Travis Ishikawa had (and is still having) and that says about all you need to know about The Dark Years…….
A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball 
The Dark Years. Until I moved in 2008, I was still going to around 30 to 40 games a year. Finding someone to fill my guest/extra seat was very difficult even when I offered the seat for free. I tried finding a single Giants fan at the stadium to give them the ticket (just buy me a beer inside), only to have someone else sit next to me. I guess whoever I gave it to, scalped it to get a Bleacher seat and maybe a free beer for themselves (I think my club level seats were $55 – $65 during those years). So I started eating a lot of tickets.
What do I remember about the Dark Years? I sat next to a very, very expensive coat rack.
I sat next to a very, very expensive coat rack . . . Funny line clown 🙂
I don’t know about that but i just read that Lindsay Vonn is dating Tiger. EWWWWWWWWW.
Then the darkness turned to light. The clouds parted and horns blared. I am thankful to be around for the golden era of San Francisco Giants Baseball.
New post on my blog. Flav is probably right about that line up being one of the most putrid in Giants history. However, it seems like I can recall the mid-1970s through the early 1980s stinking up the joint (and believe me frigid Candlestick Park didn’t exactly inspire fandom to attend games enthusiastically, sans a half-way decent product on the field).
It’s strange to look back on the Dark Years now. As Bonds got ready to clear out his locker, renting the three semi-trailers and 12-man crew he’d need, etc., the draft got ugly. The Giants had no first-round picks in 04 and 05. (As many of you probably know, and I repeat this only to develop the darkness theme, they lost the 04 pick in return for signing Michael Tucker and the 05 for signing A Benitez.) Then they had a few high first round picks during the Dark Years–Lincecum (10), Bumgarner (10), Posey (5). Decisions like that will dispel some darkness.
Amazingly enough–and I completely forgot this fact–the Giants had 5 more first round picks after Bumgarner in 07. All five are still trying to break into the big leagues for more than a couple of games in September. The list of failures never gets short. There really are only a few sure bets in every draft, and they can be found in the top ten, I guess. (Zack Wheeler was the last high pick the Giants took (6, in 09). Of course, he’s gone. That’s a fact we’ll probably hear about repeatedly over the coming years.)
Anyway, Sabean’s now playing a sophisticated game, keeping the team in first place without the high picks and without the high-risk superstar slugger. (No Pujols nor A-Gon, thank you.) The new challenge may be the no-price-is-too-high dodgers. Perhaps this is the start of yet another new era.
My daughter and I sat down from a couple of Mets fans at Sunday’s game against the Rox. We had some good banter about the Giants “renting” them Ramirez and Torres for a year in exchange for Pagan. And of course they had to get their ribs-in on the Wheeler trade. They expect he’ll be up this year…regularly throws in the mid-90s.
There you are. We might as well get used to it. Sounds like a great trip to ST, btw. I didn’t have much interest in going a WBC game here at China Basin, even as the ticket prices dropped below $10. But if I had the chance I’d drop everything to sit in on a few ST games. Well, not this year. But great hearing about it.
Saw a couple days ago the A’s sent down Michael Taylor again. You just never know enough about “prospects” and how they are going to handle themselves at mlb level, regardless what ever gaudy numbers they put up in minors or ST.
Seeing the name Jose Castillo brings back a lot of bad memories. Sabes got stuck with this guy in his starting LU because he low balled Pedro Feliz who wound up in philly after hitting 20 bombs 4 yrs in a row for us. Sure he struck out a lot and had a terrible OB, but was steady fielder with over .400 slugging who could play every day…and Sabes plan B was scramble mode.
This also wasn’t Kruk’s better days either. He used to rave about whomever giants brought out of the pen in those days, talking about their “electric stuff” etc. Then Sadler or some other stiff would get lit up, like the night I watched the pen heimlich the game vs. the Nationals the night Bonds broke the HR record.
due to the number of times the camera’s panned to a child eating food or someone else gorging themselves on garlic fries, these years were also the hardest for Loo to watch, too. 🙂
I consider the “Dark Years” the years from 1981 through 1985. There had a brief resurgeance under Frank Robinson in 1982, but those were the years when the performance “de-hancing” drug Cocaine was an epidemic, a strike in 1981 made the season a farce, and for the only time in franchise history, the team lost 100 games (1985)..
But as always, there was hope on the proverbial horizon- in the person of Andy of Mayberry, uh, Roger Craig-who took over for the congenial but over matched Jim Davenport in late ’85. Man, I could taste a Giants/Twin World Series in ’87- that Card series hurt more than any-we had ’em. Joe Price turned in one of the great relief jobs in postseason history in Game 5 and we left town up 3-2 and never scored another run…
And while my dear Twinkies went on to win the series in 7, the Giants had long become my true love…
Seeing Willie’s post, different strokes, I guess. To me, following the progress of prospects, good or bad, is a huge part of why I follow the game. I can’t imagine only caring about the prospects, no quotation marks needed, when/if they’ve become stars. Just a different way of looking at things. BTW, Kruk was right- Sadler did have electric stuff. Probably best stuff on the ’08 staff, but couldn’t throw strikes..Merkin Valdez was another kid with a big arm. Merkin had a lot of arm trouble, neither he or Sadler were stiffs, they were just a couple of many who didn’t fully realize the dream.
IMO.
Agree following the prospects for me has always been interesting. Now more than ever really. Never used to pay much attention to the draft before Lincecum.
Have always enjoyed following the prospects. Still have big hopes that Kieschnick can have a good year in Fresno, get the call-up, and truly challenge for a starting OF position next year.
I remember years ago (this is when the Giants AA team was still in Shreveport – Captains, I believe). I was down on a trip with the Air Force and remember seeing this slick-fielding kid at SS. Name was Royce Clayton…turned out to be a pretty fair SS.
Yahoo sports has a column about defending champ Kentucky being one of the snubs to tournament selections. Calipari is exhibit A in my argument about players/coaches. He recruited a powerhouse team that dominated defensively and won it all the year before and he admitted there was not a lot of structure to what they did. They all left early for the NBA, and this year now that he actually had to coach a lesser talented team, they sucked in a not very strong over all SEC (which got more teams into NIT than NCAA). Result is his team is in the NIT vs. Robert Morris.
One night at practice in Asian rec ball years ago we were scrimmaging another team 8th-9th boys in our org at same age level coached by a good buddy of mine. We were blasting them, my buddy called a time out/water break and I could hear him lighting his kids up, and I turned to our guys and said, “You guys are making me look bad.” My best player replied, “No, we’re making you look good.”
WillieD, you might like this:
http://www.app.com/article/20130318/NJCOLUMNIST09/303180099/Red-Bank-native-Toole-welcomes-defending-champs-Robert-Morris
yeah, thx man, cool story. St. Mary’s plays tonite, if they win they get Memphis. Other play in tonite is North Carolina A and T, home of Niner’s great Dwaine Board and if I remember right, Al Attles.
Reading about Linden reminded me on an interview I caught recently with the infamous Charlie Sheen, who said he’d trade winning an Oscar for just one Major League AB.
When Merkin Valdez had to change his name from Manny Mateo, I was like, what? You changed your name to fake pubic hair? This was before finding out that his real name was Merkin and he used the name Manny Mateo who was younger.
Younger by 9 months.
Great stuff by Kuiper this morning talking about the WBC:
With the Americans out, like I mentioned the crowds would be sparse only 25,000 unlike the 40,’000 +games they would draw.So he talks about the pigeons with more manurvlibilty to bombard the fans in the stands.He recommended “Umbrella Baseball Cap Night”
Also mentioned the on a bad radio/TV night for him Krukow or Dave the pigeons seek them out on a bomb run in the players parking lot…Classic Stuff Kuip!!!!!!!
I’m just happy to get on with the real of business of the Spring- getting ready for the season to come. Barring injury, I still think the 5th OF spot going right to the end- the negative to keeping Peguero is that they might want him to play more than he would up here.
Fun times. OD lineup 2008
Roberts Aurilia Winn Molina Durham Rowand Castillo Bocock Zito
I think the final OF spot still shapes up as either Peguero or Gillespie. We had to leave Sunday’s game early to catch our flight home, but saw later that Cole hit a walk-off. This notwithstanding, I think it will be Peguero. It was Saturday’s game, I beleive where Peguero started in LF. Played about 5 or 6 innings there, then logged rest of the game in CF (an inning) and RF. He had a couple of nice plays digging balls out and had strong throws back to the IF.
Infield spot is more of a condumdrum.
I think Gaudin has the inside track for the final pitching spot.
The starters all look dialed-in (sans Pablo’s elbow) and ready for the season to start.
Peguero has been my pick from the get go.But I can see them going with the Cole to begin the season at least. Gillespie has nothing left to prove in the minors. On the spot are Andres and Blanco to produce right away or I could see Peguero taking over, or even Brown if he starts strong in Fresno.
Jackson Williams has nothing left to prove either, though he can’t hit,he does call a good grizzly game behind the dish.
Whatever, dude. I’ve already said Quiroz is likely to get the call. Who you going with if Hector doesn’t go? It might depend on how long they expect Hector to be out. Although I don’t expect Jackson to be the guy, he makes sense for the short term as he’s easily the best defender. Since they kept all three, I’d say it’s still open. They might even give Monell a taste.
Did Williams piss on your pansies, “what’s your deal”?
It’s possible for the vets to suck enough to give Bond a reprieve. They’re working on it.
What day is it, has the real season begun?? Did Punxsutawney Phil say a shorter spring?? These are the real questions. and I want answers!!
Google
Brian Dallimore’s 1 career HR was a “Grand Slam” it was also his 1st ML hit.Yeah it was big for the kid.
The 2000s “Dark” time were a direct result of the Bondsian contract with the devil that the Giants made. As much as Sabes now gets his deserved props for 2 WS wins in 3 years, he has to wear the architect’s ring of the “Dark” time fiasco — along with Magowan. They rode the Bonds horse to the HR title to get butts into seats, which they did, and ignored building a team that could consistently win and keeping the underlying organization healthy at the lower levels…
I agree with a lot of that, but I doubt Sabean wanted to sign Bonds for that last year, at 15 million or whatever it was. It was MaGowen wanting Bonds to get the HR record in a Giants uniform. A record that now seems kind of irrelevant.
I could be wrong on this but I was under the impression that Sue Burns was the catalyst for the last two Bonds contracts.
Yeah, that makes sense. I stand corrected. (grin)
No worries Zum. Like I said, I could be wrong on this but with the highest owner percentage and her (and her husband’s) love of BB, I have to think she could override anything Peter or Brian had to say in the matter.
Cheers man.
BTW, I love your Central Valley Minor League takes, besides Richmond, I’m going to try and get to a Norfolk Tides (Orioles, I think) game this year.
It might be time to forgive if not forget.
I think it is well past the time for both…
Not many team escape some down or dark times. I still get a kick out of “FireSabean” who had a nice gig for himself until 2010 made his life miserable. I forget the blog, but remember reading that he made his last post the day we won the series.
The Giants dark period of 2005-2008 was full of positive change in my personal life as I got married in 2005. The World Series was kind of lackluster during those years. And the Tigers gave one of the worst World Series performances in MLB history against the Cards in ’06. My wife and I were watching a lot of minor league baseball during that period. We haven’t watched as much minor league ball lately. And we have a big screen TV now, and the MLB TV package…..
The rebuild that culminated in the 2010 title began in 2006… so Sabean’s “dark years” were brighter than some would have it.
In retrospect yes, but not at the time, for the vast majority of Giants fans.
Well, the vast majority of fans don’t pay attention to the farm system. I did point it out at the time time, though. Many times.
Cool. Give yourself a big ‘Atta Boy.
Zumie, I’m pointing out what I posted which not many understood at the time. I also posted they’d go 88-74 in 2007. Like everybody else, I have hits and misses. And like like everybody else I don’t point up the misses eveyrtime I post about the hits. Lay off before someone says I’m picking on *you*…
Using that logic, the 2000-2002 period of big club success was “darker” than some would have it, since that was the period minor league talent should have been developing to help win in 2005-2008…
That’s true, and has been acknowledged “using that logic”… Again, I posted many times (as have others) about the deficiencies in drafting. Sabean has admitted they were late in using the tools that other clubs had been utilizing in rating prospects ( many of them were those sabermetric statistics.They also were late into getting back into the Latin market.
Winning is the best exorcism and the best illuminator.
And as John Madden said “It’s the best deodorant.”
Twin, No I don’t want Jackson pissing on my pansies that my kill them.He could piss in my Azaleas though,that is suppose to be good for the extra acidic it supplies the plants.That’s only after he washes his hands after working in Vera’s kitchen first.
You almost nailed the joke to the punchline “Wash your hands and make me a cheese sandwich”
2005-2008 did have some nice moments, though, too. Tim’s 18-5 and Cy Young being a big highlight. And that series where the Giants took 2 out of 3 from the Yankees was very memorable.
Every season I’ve watched go by in the 58 years that I’ve followed and loved the game has had wonderful moments. I can’t imagine that not being the case for every fan- the wonderful moments, that is. And while I rejoiced for the players and the team employees for the 2 titles, I wouldn’t love the game any less if they they none.
Sure, your Pirates won in ’60, and your Twins in ’87 and ’91.
The rest of us Giants fans really needed ’10 and ’12.
Well, ’10 is what we really needed; and ’12 was an extra amazing blessing.
None of the titles made me love the game any more than I already did. And I never “needed” any of them, Zumie. My fondest baseball memories were of the Pirates when they they were awful. Granted, I was a boy then and the times were different, but I loved the O’Brien twins, Toby Atwell, Johnny Powers..
And Dick Stuart, of course, I have bored you all with the birthday story many times. And my novella, gone forever. I’ll take the regret of losing that to my grave.
Yep, LT fans like me with no championship for 40+ years pre-2010 wasn’t just a dry spell, it was a drought that many of us thought would never end. Sure, the occasional memorable win and individual player exploit memories helped over that time, else we wouldn’t be fans. As did the occasional playoff appearances. But, overall, rooting for the laundry for that long without seeing it drenched in WS champagne was tough. Enjoying the game only goes so far. There was nothing like the 2010 postseason and WS win. No substitute for that feeling. None…
I’m not satisfied. I want 5 or 6 more. 🙂
Look at the losing this way: It netted them Buster and Tim. And Bum.
If 4 years of dogmeat performance means 2 more WS wins out of 3 years soon thereafter, great. I’m for it. Let that dogmeat period start in 2065…
I’ve been a Giants’ fan for over 35 years, I wanted a championship for the guys just as much as anyone else. But for whatever reason , I never thought of it as mine too much. After they won in 2010, I thought of my late brother,and of George, the double amputee and monster fan who died last summer, and I thought of the cassoulet that was supposed to be enjoyed at Le Central after the parade in 2002. And we had a little parade which was George’s idea and we ate the cassoulet ( which prepared over a weeks time) , which was delicious, rich with duck confit and homemade sausages and white beans…then I put my wife to bed and talked with George and watched the game again. .. so-maybe I did like it more than I say..
now that’s a tidy short story in itself; a very succinct and pleasing portrait
Thank you.
They’re talking of R&R for Panda for the next few days. Besides the inflamed ulnar nerve, he has a “chronic bone spur”. Groeschner say he should be ready for the opener. Hector probably not. And Mijares will face hitters tomorrow- If he has problems, that could open up a spot for Runzler.
I was happy for the players when they won in 2010 but I was significantly more happy for “me”. Hundreds of games at the stick, thousands of hours listening to games on radio or watching on tv and all I ever got to show for it was constant ribbing from the Boney One about how many titles the A’s have won while we’d won nada. There was huge satisfaction for me in finally having my team win.
2012 was a fantastic beat down on those who said we won 2010 because of luck.
There’s a reason we give out knowing dude head nods. It’s cause now, we know. And we’re on top of the baseball world, right along side the players until further notice…..
Amen.
Championship #1 was Nirvana.
#2 was champagne in Nirvana.
#3 will be Nirvana with Daisy serving the bubbly with her room key…
I think of anyone on that team, and anyone on past Giants teams to whom 2010 meant something, I was more happy for Murph. 50+ years of cleaning after these sweaty dudes, and he finally gets a ring, plus a full playoff/WS share, as he did for 2012, too. My hat was/is off to the guy…
I was happy for a lot of people more than I was for me. Not because I’m wonderful man who deserves to be the Pope ( although that’s true, also), but there were just people I knew who it meant a lot to. George was one. Merna was happy for her favorites- Andres,Timmy,Uribe,– she didn’t like Wilson much. I was real happy for you guys.
I was happiest of all for Edgar, who gave the best no BFD home trot in series history.
Baggs’ report on Panda’s elbow bone spur (“since 2009”) is a bit of a revelation, to me. At least I don’t remember that being specifically revealed before. Anybody heard that before? If this is a revelation, why the removal of the curtain now if per Groeschner, it’s “chronic”, but no biggee?. It’s not nice to hide the tests from Dr. Snarkk…
As they say on The Sopranos, “with all due respect,” 2005-08 were hardly the darkest of our years. But it just doesn’t matter anymore to me. It does not matter. 2010 brought redemption, newness, whatever-you-want-to-call-it. 2012 more of the same, plus the icing on the cake of “validation.” I ain’t gonna lie, and I’ve said it before; I was simply on the cusp of accepting that the Giants would never win the Series in my remaining years. I would’ve rolled with it. As I learned in 2010, just Being There was a thrill. But let’s be honest, it’s a lot easier to talk about this now, on the sunny side of things. And I do not take that “sunny side of things” (e.g. two rings) for granted at all. At all. It now colors everything, and gives me a greater degree of tolerance for anything that unfurls.
As I remember, and it’s getting harder, the 70’s, after ’71, and post-Mays, were pretty damn “dark”. Horace Stoneham, need I say more? And, at the Stick, that’s way darker than 2004-2008 at ATT. Fox, Westrum, Altobelli, an old Rigney, Bristol (yikes!) — what a group of managers it was, with a commensurately pretty horrible set of teams. I looked at the records, the whole period 1972-1980 was .478 winning % in aggregate. The Count’s exploits and the one year magic mind meld of Lon and a young Al Michaels might have been the highlight, they even dumped Stretch on 10/25/73 to the Pads for Mike Caldwell. That was definitely a dark day, though I don’t remember it. Caldwell actually helped out for the first year, then he sucked on some bad ’75 and ’76 teams…
I almost forgot.
Two words for the late ’70s.
Spec Richardson…
And, in the late ’70s, Chuck will remember this, Eddie D hired Joe Thomas as GM, maybe the worst 2 years or whatever it was of a GM in NFL history, certainly Niner history.
So, you had Spec Richardson and Joe Thomas as GMs in SF at the same time at the end of the ’70s. Now, THAT’s dark. Compared to that, now is positively a supernova of SF pro sports success…
With no viable backup at second or short, we may need to bring Theriot back. He is average at best but he is a solid enough backup.
Well, it’s gotta be a two way street. If Theriot burned a bridge, that’s on him. I’d take him back in a second and his celebratory fist pump/yeah!!!!! after he slid home in Game 4 like a 5th grader slides on a water slide on a Summer afternoon tells me he hasn’t burned all the bridges there are to burn….
alliemeadows21
2:02 PM on March 19, 2013
With no viable backup at second or short, we may need to bring Theriot back. He is average at best but he is a solid enough backup.
Only took you 3 weeks to catch it.
Catch what? I haven’t been posting there until a couple days ago, But who would think that anyone would want to appear as if they’re Soph… you owe me flowers, dearie..
It’s the first Splash post of it’s that you mimicked word for word. There was nothing to catch.
I hear an echo. wtf?
If Theriot is in nobody’s camp, what does that say?
If he did hook up with SF again soon, I know what that says about ST. It’s not worth much…
Last I heard, Theriot was shooting for a starting job with the Cards. If that doesn’t work out…
what’s the latest on Brian Wilson, anything at all?
Last I heard on radio he was down in LA “working out”. Beard and all…
i see. But I would not be shocked if Blade encountered him in Kuala Lumpur or some other exotic place.
Bangkok, more likely. He traveled to Thailand several years back with an A’s hurler whose name escapes me. God knows the arc of his exploits in a place like that…
Not a good game for Crazy Horse and P.R. so far. The Giants game is coming on the MLB network later tonight.
I wish that Buick commercial would end with Peyton Manning slamming into a utility pole…
dellavedova is flat out fun to watch, I love that guy. SMC gets Memphis–barkley says they have no chance. Course he also had middle tenn tonite.
calipari and defending champ kentucky loses to freaking robt. morris…hope no one in pac 12 embarrasses the conference like that.
Goodnight Adam Shabala, wherever you are…
Hey, do you guys remember…?