67 to Go….
Do you think it’s possible that the Giants go 40-27 the rest of the way? Because that would get them to 92 wins and if not the NL West crown, certainly a playoff spot. They have the worst record in major league baseball since June 9th. THE WORST. If that’s a little too sobering for you, on June 8th they had the best record in baseball. THE BEST.
So who do you think this team is? The worst? The best? Something in between?
So much of their fate depends on whether Angel Pagan comes back healthy. And of course, if they manage to acquire the vaunted Ben Zobrist. 🙂
Personally, I don’t think there’s any way in hell they go 40-27 the rest of the way with the currently assembled team. Blanco has to stop playing regularly. And the offense has to start supporting the pitchers who are absolutely pitching well this season.
I’m most concerned about the closing position. If the team does start to hit well enough to win regularly again they aren’t going to be blowing people out. They’re going to be playing nail biters and that means lots of closing opportunities for Casilla. And the last thing a struggling team needs is a closer blowing a bunch of games for them.
The psyche of the team just couldn’t handle that.
I think they go 30-37 the rest of the way. Yes, call me a “doomer” I can handle it. I’ve doomed it up before, I’ll doom it up again. Put your predictions in the comment section below and/or click on a poll answer.
A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball 
Grabbing Zobrist would put them solidly in category 36+ for me.
Romo is a Rags fix, and what has happened lately with Cain Vogs Lincecum makes me feel so much better about state of SPs. I think SPs are largest issue, including how many effective innings Hudson has left. Solid work from them cuts down on pen load…worry about J Lopez who has to get out AGon tough LHs.
Offense has to pull more of the load, led by top dogs Posey Belt Sando Morse. These guys have to help win the torture games, and D from Craw, whomever at 2b and CF has to be strong.
Doable.
Also consider lack of competitive teams for WC—only 2 in West and East, max of 4 Central with a couple only pretenders imo.
Thx to Loo for yahoo link on Gwynn cop out from Fox/mlb. Read a few comments from bloggers who weren’t enamored of Jeter lovefest and unanimously opposed to what Fox has done to AS etc.
I’ve got part of some season tickets. I want to be on the whole Together We Are Giants train. I just don’t get that warm fuzzy feeling. The team seems devoid of leadership in the clubhouse. They’re missing that Uribe type guy that gets that breakthrough double. The starters are picking it up so there’s a glimmer of hope. A faint glimmer.
When he is in the clubhouse, dugout, etc., I think Pagan is one of those guys (providing spark and leadership).
For me the Giants are a good team. A Great team? We won’t know that till the playoffs. We all knew the Giants were not going to hold onto the gravy train they were on for the first two+ months. But I truly doubt they are the worst team in baseball either. So yes I still see them making it to the playoffs.
And for a more somber note, RIP Johnny Winter, a great guitarist.
Did not see your reference to Johnny Winter, Kev. Sad sad news. I grew up listening to Johnny Winter.
Good thread, Craig.
I agree with Willie. My 36-40 choice is based on “IF” they get Zobrist. IF that happens, and IF Pagan comes back healthy, then I think this is quite do-able.
On a separate and totally unrelated topic, Johnny Winter has passed. He died yesterday in a hotel room in Switzerland.
Those who know me, know I have an ardent appreciation of music, and the blues is definitely one of the genres that I love (my overall favorite).
Wishing Johnny’s family, friends, and band mates peace and comfort during this time of loss. May your soul forever rest in peace, Johnny.
http://tinyurl.com/q4h34h3
Yeah, just saw that, Chuck. Sad indeed. Growing up[ in the 70s was certainly a time to be a fan of guitar players. Sad we’ve lost so many recently. Love this old Winter/Derringer stuff.
Great video clip, Charlie. Thanks for sharing.
Hard to believe he was 70. Fuck…we’re all getting old!
Casilla is the least of my worries. He’ll be fine. This set up I like. Romo seems to have his slider back, but I don’t see him getting the closer role back any time soon.
I don’t think they desperately need Zobrist if they get a healthy Pagan back. This shit begins and ends with Pagan. I just don’t have a good feeling about his imminent return. It would be nice to be able to get Pence out of a leadoff role and in an RBI spot, but that means Pagan is back and hitting.
I am sort of on the fence on Zorbist. Pagan healthy would be nice but that hasn’t been his track record. If he is able to stay on the field, Zorbist can fill the suck hole known as 2b. Another hitter that can take some walks would be nice I suppose.
Agree with you on the closer. Romo is better as a set up guy and Casilla can lock down the job with some solid outings coming out of the break.
When you come down to it, Casilla is physically built for closer. He’s done it before. He’s good. He’s ready to accept the role. Just do not let him bat. Ever.
No shit! If I’m Bochy I tell him to go up the without a bat . . .
I am absolutely NOT on the fence with Zobrist. Even if Pagan comes back soon and can play a majority of games, the team can use a vet bat like Zobrist in the line-up. Very good OBP and contact hitter, and he has some pop. He can play 2nd, SS, and all OF spots (gotta love that flexibiltiy).
If Pagan falters, you have a guy you can put at the top of the order to play either CF or 2nd.
I don’t think it will take anything exorberant to land him, although the Reds and Mariners are supposedly in the hunt for him, too. Giddy the fuck up, Sabes and nail this trade down.
I predict 35 to 40 wins, maybe a few games over .500. I do think they get a playoff spot, somehow. This may be silly, but I put a lot on this week, on the next seven games. Coming out of the gate strong would count for a lot, a lot. I need to research 2012. We sucked before the ASG. We must’ve had a strong second half then, though we are well past the half this year. As you all know, 2010 was a torture path to the last day, but that made the Giants battle-tested. The miracle of that year was: how did we do it?! SD owned us. They gave us a gift. I think they lost 10 in a row near the stretch. But I’m not sure of the 2012 victory arc.
Coming out of the gate strong would help wipe clean the last month of suckitude so I am with you there.
One of the things I remember about the 2012 season is how quickly the Giants’ magic number melted away in the last few weeks of the season. It seems that, often in sports, the key is playing well and just waiting for the other teams in the division to collapse. The Padres collapsed in ’10, and in ’13 the Dodgers benefited from the rest of the division collapsing. It doesn’t always work. Obviously, the Braves of ’93 didn’t collapse.
So now we stand at a weirdly critical point of the season. The Giants were in free-fall for about a month, and still somehow are only one game out, zero games out in the loss column. It’s truly one of those “glass half full, or glass half empty” situations. You couldn’t fault a person for being either “doomer” or “pollyanna” at the moment. (Although I’m not a big fan of dividing fans in such an arbitrary way. Life and/or sports is never that simple.) We stand at a kind of scary, yet exciting precipice of the season.
I really wish the games were resuming today. Thursday off after the All-Star game is a bad move by MLB, as I’ve whined before. Having to wait all the way to Friday night to resume is a huge derailment of the season.
I guess I’m sitting on the other side of the bench, because I’m guessing they’ve got 95 wins in them.
As I’ve said before, fuck the Farm. I think the deal will be for both Zobrist and Price.
I will be surprised if they do not land Zobrist. I think Price is a REAL long-shot. I have read numerous articles where it is said that Tampa will want (and get) more for Price than the Cubbies got for Samardzija (and Hammel). Just don’t see the Giants having the required pieces to sit at that table.
Pawlie – the 2012 team won five out of the gate, post AS break. They also lost 5 of 6 to end the month of July. Overall in July was 12-12. They had winning months every month except July, and October (1-2). Overall for the season, they were 94-68.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/SFG/2012-schedule-scores.shtml
Thanks. Great stuff.
Thanks for the video clip, Chuck. Another of that era of musical greats passing away.
We had some of the Winter brothers albums at our house when I was a kid. We had a 45 of Edgar’s “Frankenstein” that I played quite a bit on the ol’ record player. Man, I loved 45s; they were so cool.
The talent of the Winter brothers is immense. The fact they are both albino is part of their mystique, but the musical talent just seemed unlimited Here’s an amazing clip of “Frankenstein” being performed:
Great clip, Evan. Thanks for sharing. I had forgot that Edgar played sax, too. Was a great time for music…
Next couple weeks could be interesting as the *sellers* start auctioning off pieces of failing ships.
I’ve always liked Denorfia, who would be great guy to have around for outfield D and could lead off if needed.
Prado would be another versatile smart hitter ala Scut, classic #2 guy ahead of bashers…who need to do way more bashing second half.
Either or both of these guys, plus a Zobrist, instantly upgrade team depth and hopefully do not cost Panik (who I guess was a SS in college…hmmn). I know none of above are kids, but all are smart contact hitters and would provide insurance if Pagan is in fact unable to be a factor, and if SF were to lose Sandoval or Morse after this season.
I went 31-35, and that’s being optimistic with the team currently as is. I’d bump it up a notch if Sabes can pull off a couple trades. Zobrist would help with that hole at 2B, but if Pagan’s not going to be ready any time soon, then they desperately need a leadoff hitter so they can, as many have mentioned, put Pence back into an RBI spot where he belongs. As for the ‘pen, my concern isn’t so much Casilla as closer but whether he gets enough chances from here on out. I’m also a little concerned about Huddy and MadBum, the latter not having a good start in almost a month. Maybe the break did ’em some good. And I’m with WillieD: the big bats have gotta start bopping, especially Morse, who’s been lost for a month now.
Zobrist can solve the lead-off problem if Pagan cannot go. And if Pagan can…he can hit in the 2 spot, and as you said, this frees Pence to go to an RBI position (5th, etc.). If the Giants could make ONLY one trade, I see this one bringing the most bang for the buck, given that they have the pieces to make the deal, and that he can play so many positions, and lead-off.
Meaning Zobrist can hit in the 2 hole if Pagan is in the line-up…
Yeah, Zobrist has done some leading off this year, but has settled into the #2 spot for the Rays of late, so I guess he can fill that void. That still leaves another OF, since Blanco sure as hell isn’t the everyday solution. Unless you want to stick Z in the OF and go full-on Panik mode at 2B.
Mac – hoping like hell that the latest estimate is correct, and that Pagan is activated near the end of July. If he is back and healthy, Blanco’s ass goes back to the bench.
One more and I am done…Johnny Winter live at the BBC in 1974, playing The Stones stalwart “Jumping Jack Flash.” RIP.
Fox network and MLB going into damage control, per Ken Rosenthal
Fox and Major League Baseball have issued a joint statement on why the loss of Tony Gwynn was not mentioned during the All-Star Game broadcast last night.
“We are deeply saddened by the loss of Hall of Famer Tony Gwynn, an extraordinary individual whose memory we have honored in numerous ways in recent weeks. The Baseball family has sadly lost a number of people this year – including Hall of Famer Ralph Kiner, Frank Cashen, and former All-Stars Jerry Coleman, Jim Fregosi and Don Zimmer – and did not want to slight anyone by singling out one individual.”
What a weak ass excuse!!
that’s funny. They didn’t want to slight anyone? They’re blatantly slighting someone in their prepared written excuse. Where’s the Bob Welch reference?
Bunch of fucking tools at Fox. They could have easily had a “moment of silence” to recognize ALL that were lost this past year, and read their names in alphabetical order.
Lame. About as weak an excuse as an adulterer blaming the tempter or temptress. Not sure that makes sense, but I wanted to work sex in there somehow.
Count me in the Poly camp. Going to go with 41 + wins. Guess who said this, “They kind of respect the game. They go out there and play the game really hard.”
Give up? Miguel Montero, the Snakes catcher said that about us (read more below).
http://espn.go.com/blog/los-angeles/dodger-report/post/_/id/11298/giants-rivalry-gets-a-jolt-after-the-break?ex_cid=espnapi_public
Good read, Polly, er Steve. JK brother…I am in the glass half full Polly camp, too. Especially if the Zobrist deal comes to fruition, and Pagan returns healthy sometime around the end of the month.
It appears the Dodgers stacked their rotation to throw their top three in the first post-AS series. So, that match-up will look like this:
Game 1: Lincecum vs. Greinke
Game 2: Vogelsong vs. Kershaw
Game 3: Cain vs. Hyun-Jin Ryu.
BEAT LA!
I love the fact that ESPN SportsNation thinks we will face plant. FUCK THEM ALL!
SportsNation
Who will win the National League West?
67%
Dodgers
29%
Giants
4%
Neither
I’ll be on and off here for the next few weeks. Vacation time towards the PacNWest.
Go Giants…
Have a wonderful vacation, Tom.
enjoy your Makers (and your Maker)
well not like “meet your Maker”; just have a great vac
enjoy the trip dude.
38-29 is doable. We have a LOT of division games at the end but only 6 against the Dogs.
That being said, we have 3 east coast trips in the next 6 weeks though.
38-29 may indeed be doable, but I am not sure that wins them the West (or even a wildcard slot). If they went 38-29, the bums would only have to go 36-29 to also reach 90.
I think they will need at least 92 to win the division.
Speaking of division games. One part that stood out in the article that Steve shared was this:
“They just haven’t been particularly good when they play the Giants so far, going 3-7 in head-to-head matchups. On the other hand, they have gone 26-10 against the three sub-.500 teams in their division while the Giants have gone just 18-18 against those teams. It’s that disparity, largely, that allowed the Dodgers to make up 10 games in the standings in about four weeks.”
We all know the Giants need to play well against their division foes, but this just highlights it. Sure, we’ve done great agains the bums head-to-head, but against the rest of the division, the Dodgers have been superior. That must change for the Giants to win the West.
I saw Zobrist play a rehab game in Syracuse a few years ago. My only recollections were twofold: 1. the stadium was almost empty; it had rained; you could eerily hear players more than the few fans 2. I approached the bullpen pitchers, on the field, to talk about my book; some of them were up with the Rays on 9.28.11; they acted like mute dunces 1a. Zobrist left no impression on me whatsoever. Rays fans are pretty fond of Zobrist, and VERY fond of Price.
Giants will be an underachieving club in the second half. Their offense is just not good enough to keep this going. Sabean will have to make some moves to create a better lineup. Depending on Angel Pagan an injury plagued player is FOOLISH and STUPID. The rest of the main players must have career years. So far they are not. They just are not good enough. Cain has to pitch better but he’s most likely to be a victim of a poor offense.
Hmmmm….so, what you are saying is that the team (with Pagan healthy) that had the best record in baseball for the first two months isn’t any good?
Granted, I think they were playing a bit over their heads, but they are better than the credit you give them, Nipper. Trade for Zobrist and get Pagan healthy and this team will win the West, and you can eat your words.
Take a look at The 501 from field level
Nice. I work right down the street from the stadium. My company is handling all the IP Networking hardware. I keep meaning to head over there at lunch for a look.
how wired does that place look?
That place looks bad ass! I remember being bummed during the final series for the Giants at the Stick. There were not many dry eyes in the place. But the first time I stepped into the new ball park, she was a distant memory. We should consider a Flapalooza at the 501. Do they sell SRO tix? 😉
Heard from Tedspe!!! He is okay. He still loves us. He will return. And it will be a good omen; auspicious.
That’s awesome news, Pawlie. Not to take anything away from those who blog here regularly, but I think most will agree that the blog was better with TedSpe around.
TedSpe rules.
Interesting split on the poll so far. I certainly don’t see the club going 40+.
Interesting. More optimistic, glass half full, Polly types on The Flap than not.
Well, don’t go to the Splash. Not that I have recently, but it’s a wasteland of A’s trolls.
Damn…I haven’t even THOUGHT ABOUT the Splash in a looong time, let alone been there. Truly have almost forgot about the place.
Been away for a few days (it is “the break” afterall), hiking down in the Blue Ridge Mountains (photos on FB to follow), and I tried to catch up here but not sure if I caught every golden morsel of insight and comment herein.
One thing I do want to mention: some comments here from some Flappers being kinda tired of *negativity* here the past few weeks. I’m actually kinda tired of some Flappers criticizing other Flappers for being *negative*. There’s a difference between negativity and reality. Context is everything. Such as, if you knew that the stock market was at 9000, right now… is that good? Only if it had been at 5000 and was trending up. If it had been at 12,000, then no, it’s not good. If someone told you, before the season started, that the G’s would be one game out at the break, wouldn’t you have taken that? Yes and no. That fact by itself is rather meaningless without context. If you also knew the G’s had been 10 games out but now were only one game out, yeah, great, they’re trending up, lots to look forward to. But the fact is, they were 9-1/2 games UP, not that long ago. The bitching and moaning here by some Flappers is not *negative*, it’s fucking reality. I was called a doomer here a few weeks ago because I said I wouldn’t be surprised if LA was in 1st at the break. Fuck doomerism, hello reality.
Right. Long way to go. Do I think they will play as poorly as they have recently the rest of the way? No. Do I think they will play as well as they did during the glory days? Also, no. Right now, for the rest of the way, they have to play at least 2 games better than LA. That seems doable. But probably only with some changes. If Sabean does not make moves to improve this team before the end of July (or August, I’ll cut him that slack, he’s done it before), then the reality will probably be negative. I am not a doomer. I resent being called such. But if you’re tired of negativity here, then you’re kinda not facing reality… up to this point. Wind it up, baby, kick some ass and have a great July, August, and September. Usually, I just want to see the team playing good ball, and let the chips fall where they may. Play good ball, chips fall well…..
great post, thanks for saying it in a way I wanted to but failed to.
Craig, you never fail, you often nail it and if not then at least you instigate…. 🙂
Good post Paul. If I get your drift, essentially you’re saying that Doomers have taken the Red Pill (they are realists and believe in the Matrix) and the Pollys have taken the Blue Pill (they don’t believe in the Matrix). 🙂
“I’ll take the reds, man….” Cheech. Or was it Chong…. 🙂
LMAO…good call (reference to Cheech and Chong).
Great post, Paul. I have mentioned the negativity in the past. But it isn’t just the negativity in general, it is just in some instances the same point being beat again, and again, and again. I too am a realist, and said (probably not as elegantly as you) in the past the same about them not being as bad as they have been of late, but also, not being as good as they were the first couple of months. They are somewhere in between. And I agree changes are needed…I have kicked a couple of prospective moves out there as many Flappers have.
I do not ever recall calling anyone a doomer. If I did, then I was out of line. I respect everyone’s points of view, even if they differ from mine. But there were instances where I just felt like a point had already been made numerous times, and wanted to say “enough already, we fucking get it.”
Anyway, it is all good. I am cautiously optimistic. The starters have started to show some life, and that is one of the keys. The bullpen was bullet-proof, but has shown cracks of late. They need to shore things up. And we all know there is a need for someone to play 2nd or OF, who preferably can hit at the top of the order (a couple of names have been kicked-around). Bottom line, as you, me and others have said, there will have to be a move or two to shore up the team and set them up to be competitive down the stretch.
Hope your visit has been good, and looking forward to a possibility of meeting up when you get out to CA.
Paul, what I read Sunday and what I’ve read too much for my taste are posts about a joke offense and the mgr. waving the white flag. So what happened? Giants scored 8 and the joke O kicked butt. For all the talk about how the A’s were superior and did this and that with patient hitting taught through the organization BS, the Giants hitters loaded the bases with hits and walks that created the situation that allowed for grand slams. And then took advantage, like the good teams do. This while the A’s forgot to score for 20 innings vs. seattle.
As for the A’s, they won 3 times in Bay Series, then left town and lost 2 of 3 to Seattle. Did I hear anything about M’s being a superior team for beating the A’s and shutting down their offense? Or how much of their lead the A’s have lost to teams right behind them?
Over the course of 162 games and 6 months, ALL teams are going to have streaks and stretches where they are hot and also not. So are hitters and pitchers, who will go up and down throughout the season. I think the Giants are better team than they have shown and are fully capable of competing with best in the league, and I believe that their record shows that. Not one team in entire league is more than a game or two better than they are over almost 100 games.
Their mgr. has a style that fits his players and does a great job of handling a bullpen, and has a fine coaching staff. The GM has a track record of making great acquisitions when needed, and I think he feels one is needed now and I have confidence he can make that happen again.
I don’t think what is wrong with them can’t be fixed nor that *issues* are unique to SF. Every other team in all of baseball has their own set of problems and most have a lot more than Giants do. If fans want to complain and criticize what they don’t like, I’m sure they’ll have plenty of opportunities over the course of the season and also hopefully much to rejoice about.
If others would rather treat the team like a dissecting table and cut them into shreds, so be it.
I really have little idea what the A’s have done since the bay bridge series. I know they hit a rough spell, but I don’t follow them daily, in the standings, anywhere, really. The things you say about all teams having ups and downs over the course of 162 is absolutely true. Some choose to see the good in those ups and downs, and some choose to see the good.
For all the accolades thrown their way, the A’s have little margin for error. They only have a 1.5 game lead themselves and any hiccup, they are in 2nd.
Yeah, Paul, context is a bitch. But as the downturn spun on a dime, the thought is they can turn back. Problem is, it turned on Pagan’s injury, and I sure don’t get a sense he’s near to coming back.
Anyone heard anything new about Pagan?
Apropos of nothing, I just looked at the standings. I didn’t realize Balt was in 1st place. . .
New thread is up….