Brian Sabean is Afraid of His Own Shadow
“There were a lot of bad deals to be made and we certainly didn’t want to be a part of it”— Brian Sabean.
What does this mean? Was Sabean out there looking to give up literally NOTHING for reinforcements? Because that’s not how trades work, Brian. We know for a fact that he was in on talks for Bonifaco and Denorfia. I’d like to think he had a conversation with Texas about Rios. Or with Tampa about Zobrist. But those 2 guys didn’t get moved so let’s look at the first two players and see what this ultra-step price was that Sabean was afraid to pay for fear of participating in a “bad deal.”
(And I’ll preface this by saying, what you think of Bonifaco or Denorfia is not important. You can argue whether either is an upgrade on Panik or Blanco, I say it is but that’s not the point. Sabean has been quoted as saying he didn’t want to participate in a “bad deal.” So let’s see what those guys cost……)
Bonifacio went to the Braves (along with lefty reliever James Russell) for a class A catching prospect that was a 2nd round pick in the amateur draft in 2013. In 356 at bats this year in the SALLY league, he’s hitting .279 with 5 home runs. Granted he’s only 21, but if you can’t hit better than that in a straight-ass fastball league, you are not a blue chip prospect–you are a fringe prospect, and Sabean has boatloads of those guys. And I will refer you to the SF Giants minor league link to the right to see all the catchers we have at different levels who are hitting as well as this chump.
Now to Denorfia— The Padres wanted Escobar for him and Sabean said no and pivoted to Boston and that’s how we got Peavy. But what did Seattle give up for Denorfia? They gave SD Abraham Almonte who is a 25 year old outfield who sucks and a 25 year old pitcher who is just spinning his wheels in the minor leagues at a variety of different stops for the M’s. So essentially, Seattle gave up 2 guys who they don’t want who aren’t in their plans who no one considers prospects for Chris Denorfia— a guy who Sabean DID target, this is fact. We have OODLES of guys like these guys in our shitty farm system……..
So what gives here? Does Sabean not understand the concept of countering? Fine, you don’t want to give up Escobar but there are PLENTY of players littering their minor league system at all levels who match up with Almonte and Kohlscheen.
So where were these “bad deals”, Brian? Where were the deals that you felt like you were gonna get totally fleeced and that’s why you did nothing today?
Answer: Sabean has lost a step. Whether he can’t pull the trigger because he’s gun shy or maybe he just doesn’t have a realistic idea of what his farm players are worth. I don’t know. But saying “there were a lot of bad deals out there” should only have been in the context of what they might have acquired that wouldn’t have ended up panning out. There was nothing they could have given up, relative to what the Braves and the M’s gave up (or what the Yankees gave up for Prado) that would have ever in a million years been considered by the fan base to be a “bad deal.”
What could Adam Duvall have fetched? The Giants don’t even consider him a prospect but he could have easily gotten any of the guys listed above.
Sabean’s hands are warm tonight and our season is OVER………
A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball 
Fuck it. if Sabean isn’t going to waste brain power and single A floating bodies to improve the team, I’m not going to get all fired up when they slowly sink in the west. He had all last offseason to address his bench and did very little. Sure, we’ve had injuries, but who hasn’t? We bring up guys that go 0 for June. The starters are all in a collective funk and rhe season lurches on.
Sure/I’d be happy as hell if they all started playing like they did in April/MMay, but I won’t be that surprised if they don;t.
All bets are off if the stagger into the playoffs. They could catch fire with Bummie, Huddy, and Timmy (or Cain, or even Vogie) but even that’s a bit of a hallucination. The only good news is we have waiver claims ahead of the Dogs. Whoop-de-fricking-doo.
And at least the FDogs did not get Lester or Price…
Ok at the end of the day I just wanted to get Bonafacio just so that we had a couple months of great arguments in the Flap. Now that would have been fun.
but trying not to rip Sabean, but we could have had Bonafacio in the spring once he was let go by the Royals and would have cost us anything via trade and probably just a couple mill. But now what I read for what the Braves gave up essentially nothing, makes me nauseous.
And for what the Rays got for Price is ridiculous. Could we not have done better than that deal and get Voggy the hell out of the rotation?
Of course meant would not have cost any prospects to have tried to get Bonifacio in the spring after he was released….
The rays got completely taken for Price. I don’t know if they panicked it what. They could have won the east this year with him and did nothing to strengthen themselves for next year. Total bonehead move by them
But at least they kept Zobrist;)
And there I your post of the day…or at least this thread…
I had this question at the end of the last thread about Fuggla…he is gone right???
The ball is in his court. He can report to Fresno or walk.
Ok see you Fuckla..thanks for the update…
Second base is Panik’s place.
not so fast Loo, Matt Duffy is getting called up. Double A. Decent hitter. Gonna leap frog our boy Panik. He’ll be starting tomorrow I bet.
But come on…. Double A? And his BABIP is .391. Next……
Damn, we did not get a chance to see him in Richmond…guess we will see him live in NY Monday…..
If your not going to buy, then why not sell? I would have had zero problem if they traded Pablo, Hudson, Pence, Romo, etc. for prospects today. I know that may sound ridiculous when your eight games above 500 and only three games back but they did nothing to help them the rest of the way and ultimately things will get far worse before they get better.
for the right deal, I totally agree with you…..
Forgot Lincecum…I threw this idea out a couple of weeks ago if they really imploded whether they would do this. I think it is hard when they are in the wild card to then throw in the towel. But hopefully we can hold on and at least make the playoffs and hope things catch fire like in 2010 and 2014. But come next trade deadline, I would not be surprised to see us as sellers with Lincecum and Hudson as coming free agents and maybe contemplating moving Cain…
foreshadowing? meant the other even year…
Cain’s contract and elbow make him immovable forever, and Pence is a keeper. Would’ve definitely dealt Panda, Romo, Hudson and just about anyone else in the right deal. Maybe Sabes is telling the truth…
what’s Buzz Saw up to these days?
Buzzsaw moved away years ago. No idea where he is. If I have any problems at Citifield this weekend, I’m on my own.
wish I was there to back you up. I know about BUzzSaw moving away, I guess I’m just always secretly hoping there’s a reunion with you dudes. How rad would it be if you were at the game this weekend, got into it with some chump and out of nowhere BuzzSaw sees what’s happening from a section over and immediately steps over seats, fans and ushers to your rescue. I’m tellin’ ya, non-gay baseball fan-man love is a beautiful thing, ain’t it?
Nobody ever starts with me. Subways, bars, ballgames….
They just stare for a while and disappear.
Yeah that remark by Baggs really pissed me off, well atleast the Dodgers didn’t get Price or other upgrades( like they need any more) while Sabean and his fat cats F. O. Sit on their fat asses and fuck the fans!Don’t want to make a trade to just make one routine!!
“Just like saying you won’t get hit by a car if you stay in your house all day “
The only player traded today who I really would have liked to see on the Giants is Price. Any one of the rest add about 50 OPS points above Blanco currently, and that is just not going to make that much of a difference.
Funny that I’m more hopeful than most about SF’s playoff chances. A lot of pretty good players are going to have to finish with worse numbers than they sport right now, if they’re really going to finish with a crappy record.
Of course, one not unlikely scenario is that they continue to suck through August, bore the shit out of us as they fall 10 behind, and then go on a hot streak in September that lands them at 86 wins.
I think you and I are in the same space as far as where the team is, and where they potentially could go, James.
I gotta figure Epstein wanted Susac for the bone….in that case , No f- way.
Who else was traded that was feasible or a fit?
Sabean does have a proven record of nailing it at the d-line for middling prospects…FSanchez Lopez Ramirez in 2010, Scutaro Pence in 2012…even Garko didn’t cost squat
And when he had to, he sacrificed a blue chip in Wheeler for Beltran.
Just went out and got Peavy….whether he overpaid is debateab!e. He had to do something fast and pulled the trigger.
So, I don’t buy he’s gun shy. As he said, he’s been doing this a long time.
And let’s face it. Bo knee face eee o was not going to turn this ship around.
Would like to know what Sabes offered.
Thanks salty, I agree..
I’m right there with ya, Salt. Thanks.
“Our season is over (in caps)”….seriously?
I can think of a lot of teams who fall into that category, but I don’t view SF as one of them.
Another good call in my book, too.
Your use of the word “afraid” in the hed is instructive. As Jayson Stark wrote, Beane and Dombrowski were not *afraid* to trust their scouts and their instincts in order to fearlessly deal. (And to deal with postseason victory in mind, mind you.) Sabean is afraid, from what he exhibits. And I’m afraid that we’ll be watching other teams roll to postseason wins. Can you believe the rotations now out there? Yikes.
Loo: take the 7 train and go. Just for old time’s sake. Amazing my parents let me do it when I was 14, 15 years old.
Tom Verducci in SI has a wonderful tribute to Roger Angell, the first writer to be inducted into the HOF (Spink Award) who is not a member of the BBWAA.
I remember this article discussed on the radio the other day, and then I forgot about it. Looks like a great read. Thanks, Pawlie.
Here is the link in case anyone else is interested.
http://tinyurl.com/q2oq27j
I’m also seeing tweets from Phils phans blasting Amaro for not doing anything as well, and this is a team that’s out of contention.
Amaro: “I’m not necessarily disappointed,” he said moments after the deadline. “I’m more surprised that there wasn’t more aggressive action from the other end. We have some pretty good baseball players here. Our goal all along was to try to improve the club and there really wasn’t a deal to be made that would help us do that.”
Sound familiar?
ha, absolutely! But Amaro is worse than Sabean. Something is going on there if he couldn’t sell off any of those pieces in a buyers market.
Yeah, hard to believe he couldn’t unload someone like Papelbon, who the fans despise, or Byrd.
Even a local radio guy, Chris McManus, in Syracuse criticized the Phils the most; said they had guys who are coveted, albeit with $tring$ attached: Byrd, Howard, Hammels, Lee (now hurt again). And he didn’t even name Utley and Papelbon. And NONE of those guys moved? C’mon. Blasted the Phils.
If I’m the Phils owner, I fire him for incompetence. Not only do you put together a shit overpaid team but you can’t even move one of the MANY coveted players you have? Horrible. He’s an idiot and I already knew that……
That thought did cross my mind: “Mr. Amaro, may I have a word with you? Close the door.”
I’m out. G’night, girls.
I’d say the Cardinals may’ve worsened themselves. Other notable inactives: Reds, Angels, Mets, Pirates, and Dodgers. But more will happen.
There may be one thing we are overlooking…maybe ownership said fuck you when Sabean tried to get sign off on anything in play today. They may have said you spent $150 mill already and we are in the wild card, we’re not spending a dime more…
Interesting about trusting scouts. Sabean was quoted as saying 8 different scouts gave the OK on Peavy. 8! That does suggest trepidation.
I’m sure Sabes doesn’t just make decisions unilaterally, and I doubt he travels the country to look at minor league players or even major league ones. So scouts/advisers it is, preferably plural, along with minor league mgrs. and coaches at every level who see not only giants prospects but everyone else’s.
Might not be more than Sabes using guys he trusts to make sure the guy was a lot better than his numbers indicated.
I’m blown away the A’s traded Cespedes. I don’t follow them, but I assumed he was one of their best players. I hate complimenting Beane or the A’s, but that was a fucking ballsy move and I hope it works out for them.
I agree it looks like we could have taken a more competitive run at Bonafacio and Denorfia.
Fantasy League = Me and ? (another team) making a trade based on need.
MLB = Team X and Team Y making a trade based on the following:
1. Need.
2. Is the player(s) in the same division, i.e., will this trade “haunt” our club in the future?
3. Is the player a 10-and-5 rights dude (which means he has the right to refuse a trade), e.g., most of the Phillies being mentioned here. The players’ union wants these rights to mean something, so players are discouraged from waiving them.
4. What are the contract implications, e.g., will the player be locked up for the next couple of years or is he a “rental?” Will the player commit long term to the club he is going to? Will this contract be dead weight in the future?
5. How old is the player(s)?
6. If prospects are involved, how will this affect your minor league system going forward?
7. Will my owner or ownership committee approve this trade?
8. Will my owner or ownership committee allot additional monies going forward to sign the player(s) in the future? In other words, is this trade not only for this year, but future years? Or is it a one shot deal similar to what the A’s are doing – pushing in all their chips on this poker hand?
9. Any other considerations that I have missed, but am sure other Flappers can think of . . .
On the road again……..
Zum mentioned Justin Turner earlier in thread as bench guy who scored winning run after singling for LA night before. He’s hitting .300 filling in for Uribe, and Uribe himself is hitting near there too.
Puig has an OPS of .950, 30 doubles 13 HRs after last night. Hanley is at .815 and so is Kemp now. AGon has 71 rbis, and Dee Gordon having a break out year.
And that’s difference to me—who among Giants is having a break out year? How many hitters over .800/.900 OPS? Anyone, regular or part time bench guys, over .300?
When Giants won it all, both seasons they had guys get hot and finish strong. Even last year Belt Pagan Pence finished year hot. And that’s what it’s gonna take.
A Denorfia or Prado or Parra or Asdrubal Cabrera all would have improved the team sure, but these aren’t .800 OPS guys either. 2 months left for big (and little) guns who are .800 plus OPS guys to have more games like Wed, when they made up for poor outing from SP and scored enough runs for comeback W.
By the by, in my opinion, Sabean acquiring Jake Peavy was a brilliant move primarily because of the competitive differential between the American League East and National League West’s lineups. The five AL East teams have averaged 4.13 runs per game between them; the five NL West teams have averaged 3.96. In addition, since the beginning of 2009, Peavy has a 4.23 ERA, 1.22 WHIP and 20.0 percent strikeout rate in 25 starts versus AL East foes; he has 3.63, 1.11 and 23.3 numbers in 13 starts against NL West teams during that time span.
One thing I’ve always said, and I stand by it: a man without some numbers is no man at all.
Sabean must be doing something right. SF’s Series chances improved yesterday: http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=24322#.U9uQcgEdIrY.twitter
Got the post deadline blues, Bippies?
*It’s true: Sabean didn’t make any bad deals ( or if you prefer, any *more* bad deals )
* After a thorough search of the cargo compartment, it’s been confirmed that Uggla was not on the plane . Don’t even owe him meal money
* If Hicks was brought up, be careful- it might be Dan in a girdle- just hit him a few grounders
* I guess I was wrong about Pablo. He celebrated not being traded by downing 14 banana splits.
* Who said it was a bad day for Sabes- as per PECOTA our World Series odds went up .01 percent
*OK, it went up from 3.7 to 3.8- still…
*Price only moved the needle for Detroit by 0.5-I told you he was a no good scum sucking yellow bellied bottom feeding Kale Chip eater.
* I don’t want no steenkin’ prospects- mostly the sellers wanted big leaguers
*Dan Uggla and Tyler Colvin for Matt Duffy and Jarrett Parker : the best trade of the day
*Good morning
You know you can go out and get all the talent you want, they still have to make it happen.
Look what happened to Kershaw last year, outdueled twice in playoffs by Cards rookie Wacha.
And of course, Cody Ross, who said to Doc Halliday, “I got your ace right here.”
Things could be worst department:
August 1st, 2013 5th place 10.5 behind
Would 86 wins be a Bad Penny year?
I think it really comes down to getting into the playoffs. If they don’t then bad year and who knows what happens in the off season.
Baseball Prospectus now has us at 87 wins and WC spot against St. Louis…
Didn’t see your post, TF.
I assume a Bad Penny year belongs to a special category of unexplained, inevitable failure.
bad penny year is/was very explainable, part mental because of the perceived inevitable…
Plugged Nickel year at this rate.
Right. 86 and a play-in game is as good as it likely gets.
Unless the slumbering offense wakes up.
They miss the playoffs, and I think it’s prospect hunting they’ll a’go.
To get to 86 wins, the offense will need to at least stumble out of bed. They’ll need to score another 200 runs, at minimum, unless the pitching somehow recaptures pre-2012 performance levels. I doubt those 86 wins are good enough for a wild card spot, though.
I will be in Row 1 behind the SF dugout tonight.
Visit me before I get ejected.
Pav tweet:
“It’s official: Matt Duffy, Jarrett Parker called up from Double-A Richmond. Uggla, Colvin designated for assignment.”
Duffy will get time at 2nd base, Brown passed over again, this time for Parker.
“Duffy, 23, has .332/.398/.444 line for Richmond with 20 stolen bases.”
Parker, 25, is .275/.368/.463. Hit a 500 foot HR this spring. as played all 3 OF positions. Hits from the left side. 11 for 14 SB has stolen 28.
One thing Sabean accomplished yesterday was to set the media narrative. A Chronicle headline this morning: “Deadline Market Proves Too Costly.” The angle in the article is based entirely on what Sabean said.
The article could just have easily been titled something like “Giants Choose Not To Deal,” and, with the article written in a different way, would have given a different slant to things.
Flappers before have mentioned how soft the Bay Area sports reporting is, and in this case the reporter seemed pretty pliable.
James, regarding the Freight and Salvage, I won’t be at the Iris DeMent concert, but I’ll be at the Eliza Gilkyson concert in Sept.
Last night’s concert was very cool. It was a double-headliner, actually. Singer/songwriter Tift Merritt performed for the first hour, and then after an intermission, a bluegrass group, Chathom County Line performed. Both acts are from North Carolina, and the show was billed as a kind of evening of North Carolinian music. We were there more to see Tift, whose singing and songwriting we are very fond of. She’s got a sincere quality to her music that reminds me of Emmylou Harris. The bluegrass group in the second hour was entertaining, too. High energy and awesome command of their instruments.
For those of you that haven’t been there, the Freight and Salvage in Berkeley is a very pleasant place to hear music. They do mostly acoustical-music type shows. It’s still billed as a coffee house, but it’s a theater more than a coffee house. The old building was more of a coffee house. The old building had its rustic charms, but the new building is more comfortable, more accessible, and bigger. In some ways it may lack the intimacy of the old building, but the old building had somewhat uncomfortable chairs and not much leg room, for me.
We spent a good chunk of time in Half-Price Books last night, and got our browse on, big-time. It’s fun sometimes to just do a good ol’-fashioned browse.
We had dinner at an Hawaiian BBQ place on Shattuck. Good food at very reasonable prices.
We also went to the Dark Carnival bookstore on Claremont. Good to see that bookstore still hanging in there. While we were in there, a woman came in and bought ten books! You gotta love Berkeley.
Black Oak on San Pablo, Mrs. Dalloways on College, Pegasus on Shattuck and Solano are still in business, too. I was pretty bummed when Black Oak moved out of my neighborhood – many books for the kids purchased there, once had a great Classics collection, and it was a pretty good place to sober up after Tapas and cocktails at Cesar.
Anxious to see the kids, Duffy and Parker. Duffy looks like help but can’t help but think of Kieschnick/Bowker boys when looking at Parker.
Hope he fares better.
Both have pretty good differentials between BA and OBP. Duval was another Brett Pill.
For WillieD:
http://www.newyorker.com/humor/daily-shouts/sonny-rollins-words
Just flipped my Giants calendar (Opening Day give away) and for August…BB9. It has to be an omen of good things to come (even though I have heard from multiple sources that Sabean is an idiot). (The idiocy is yet to be confirmed.)
Happy Birthday to Jerry “Captian Trips” Garcia. One of the greatest guitarists of all time.
Riding that train, high on cocaine.
Casey Jones you better watch that speed!
About the 2:30 mark…The Man. Love ya and miss ya, Jerry…enjoy that “Fat Trip” and we’ll catch ya on the other side.
And for you jazz hounds…there is some superb clarinet here…
Good stuff, Chuck . . . I think that’s Branford Marsallis . . .
It’s Branford, yes–he was only supposed to sit in on a couple of songs in the first set but they loved him so much he played through the whole show and the rest of the tour. I can’t remember if it’s from this show but his solo in “Turn On Your Lovelight” is fucking amazing.
Pence RF
Duffy 2B
Posey C
Sandoval 3B
Morse 1B
Perez LF
Blanco CF
Crawford SS
Vogelsong RHP
Cain to undergo season ending elbow surgery according to Boch . . . Cain wants to keep pitching, but the doctors are advising surgery for the loose bodies . . .
Not surprised…I think it is the right move (the one they should have made a year or so ago).
Will the most recent flavor in the 2nd Base merry-go-round provide the spark that gets this offense off their duffs tonight? Was hoping for the return of our regular 1st baseman tonight but looks as if it will happen later in the weekend.
Both offenses look pretty challenged in the 6-9 slots. Starters are close to being on a par. Tops of the lineups must produce for either team ~ unless one of the guys down the slots gets lucky or has a breakthrough game. Hoping Duffy carries over his Eastern League dominance over into The Show. I’d be totally delighted with a .270 average over the first ten games with, say, a .320 OBP and a couple of SB’s as well as solid defense. If he can achieve that level from the get-go and with the immanent returns of our 1B and CF, the offense could wake up.
And, in what must be considered good news, Pagan had a nice game for the AZL Giants.
http://www.csnbayarea.com/giants/pagan-shines-arizona-league-rehab-debut
Can’t get back here fast enough.
I am cautiously optimistic…come on Crazy Horse!
I hope the Giants at least win one in NY. Yeah they’re finished. Too much has gone wrong. Too many key people not having career years. Even Pablo can’t do it in a salary drive year. Damn whatever happened to our Giants?
Finished? FUCK THAT! 54 games left. Brew some Yuba and wake up.
The Yankee/Red Sox game started at about the same time as the Giants game, I think, and the score there is 3-1, and they are 2 1/2 innings behind the Giants game. What the Yankees and Red Sox do to a baseball game isn’t the way baseball is supposed to be played. And it’s not good for the sport.
Pence heating up again would be an awesome thing.
Duffy looks like he could be Lincecum’s younger brother.
First hit, and first RBI! Cool!
His family is excited. Who’s not excited? Joe Panik. And the Panik family.
I hope the Duvall family enjoyed their trip out to a big league game.
We’ve seen a lot of families of rookies this season.
Good job Vogs. Very enjoyable game.
Vogey Strong! That was quick.
Great game. Like the rook at 2nd. Go Giants!
I don’t know if they showed it on the Giants ‘cast, but the Mets doing their dugout towel routine after a HR looks silly when they’re losing 5-0 in the 8th. I wonder if Loo got a good look at it.
The plastic wrap is up over at Pav’s blog.
Can’t believe I’m back already. Great win. Me and Jarrett are best buds. The rooks were cool, Blanco, too – the vets were a little snobby to Loo (or maybe terrified). Cain & Bum refused to look at me. But Timmy fist bumped me over the dugout mid 8th. YEAHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!
not bad Loo. Send me some pics for once. I think I speak for Flapper Nation when I say I need to get a look at you…..
Belt took BP. Hit almost everything the other way. Parker kid has long hair. Didn’t hit any out in BP. Doesn’t stop moving till the pitcher throws. When he came in from shagging flies he shook Sabean’s hand (he was observing from the side). He was either thanking him or introducing himself. Most of the vets completely ignored all the screaming kids (and immature adults) before the game. Travis looks happy to be back.