A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball

More Morse, Less Hunter

Posted in Uncategorized by Flavor on November 11, 2014

There’s some light hearted chatter about the Giants being “in” on Torii Hunter. Here’s hoping that’s not true. The Giants should be “out” on Hunter. Besides there being competition for his services, we already have an outfielder with an iron glove who can hit. His name is Mike Morse. And while you could certainly argue that Hunter has been more durable I’d rather sign Morse who is 7 years his junior. And while I can appreciate a good dick joke as much as the next guy, Hunter spends way too much time talking about his junk to the media. I’ll take the dude who’s banging out NLCS game tying home runs over the dude who’s firing off junk-jokes. Right?

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  1. sfsarge said, on November 11, 2014 at 8:12 am

    Yeah, let’s pass on the guy who robbed Barry Bonds of a home run in the all star game

  2. dirtnrocksnomo said, on November 11, 2014 at 8:12 am

    If it means no Torii Hunter then by all means bring back Morse. The guy came through with some pretty key ABs in the post season no?

    Nice 3 in 5 pic as the place holder for ring #3. I’m hoping the style is more 2010 than 2012. When your biggest complaint is the ring that is being cast and the palm trees planted at the yard its good to be a Giants fan.

    • Flavor said, on November 11, 2014 at 8:41 am

      agree on everything you wrote.

  3. zumiee said, on November 11, 2014 at 8:14 am

    Yikes; no on Hunter. There have to be some better options.

  4. zumiee said, on November 11, 2014 at 8:25 am

    But having said that (and still not endorsing Hunter), it’s been a successful strategy for Sabean to bring in a few older vets each time, who haven’t won a ring yet, who might inspire more hunger in the team to win yet another ring, Morse and Hudson being the latest examples. So, I’m not totally opposed to the strategy. Of course, the older vets have to produce to make it happen. And example where it didn’t work was Miguel Tejada. He was just DONE. You can’t bring in somebody who’s DONE.

    • stickman said, on November 11, 2014 at 8:59 am

      Poster child for “Done” might have “Winning Uggla” topping Tejada Toast by a couple of furlongs.

  5. twinfan1 said, on November 11, 2014 at 8:27 am

    No on Hunter strictly because of his age. No on Morse because he doesn’t belong in a non- DH league.

    • twinfan1 said, on November 11, 2014 at 8:45 am

      With that said,Hunter has had 13 of last 14 seasons with 500 or more plate appearances, 9 of them more than 600 PA. Morse has one. On a 2 year deal if the choice was strictly one or the other, Hunter is the much better and more durable player.

  6. Alleykat said, on November 11, 2014 at 8:29 am

    Hunter’s 40 ferchrissakes, don’t want to relive the gerriac days of Outfielders Moses Alou,Steve Finley,and Randy Winn!

  7. zumiee said, on November 11, 2014 at 8:33 am

    This is my lasting memory of Torii Hunter:

  8. zumiee said, on November 11, 2014 at 9:17 am

    Jake Peavy compared to zumiee:

    In honor of winning the World Series, Peavy has bought a San Francisco trolley car and is having it shipped to his 5,000 acre ranch in Alabama.

    Zumiee is hesitant to buy tickets for a Richard Thompson concert in Berkeley for the middle of December, because sometimes the Central Valley gets very foggy that time of year, and it would be a drag to buy the tickets and then not be able to use them because of the fog.

    • Bozo said, on November 11, 2014 at 9:24 am

      Get the tickets and if the tule fog is to much get a motel room. RT is worth it IMO.

      • James said, on November 11, 2014 at 9:52 am

        He won’t have a band. Saw him with Frith and Kaiser once (at Ashkenaz!), and then solo a couple of times. Better with a band.

  9. Bozo said, on November 11, 2014 at 9:23 am

    Those one year, “make good” contracts have worked out pretty well for us, that second year, not so much. I would only try and re-sign Morse as a bench PH/DH guy. Although, Morse came up as a SS,Third baseman so if we can’t re-sign Pablo maybe…Nah.
    As an everyday OFer, I would pass on Hunter unless all other OF options were gone, or if my only other option was Rios.

    • twinfan1 said, on November 11, 2014 at 9:31 am

      Yeah, one has zero idea what to get from Rios.

      • Bozo said, on November 11, 2014 at 12:03 pm

        That and his name has been connected to the Giants for so long, he would probably be considered a 5/10 rule guy for us.

  10. Borgiaà0 said, on November 11, 2014 at 9:30 am

    Fangraphs rated Hunter 2nd worst defensive player in all of baseball. He’s that bad. He also belongs in the AL.

    I question the Giants even being interested. Writers like to do this to get as many people reading their shit as possible. Rosenthal is a whore.

  11. ewisco said, on November 11, 2014 at 9:39 am

    The Oregon State conversation reminded me of a buddy of mine who worked for EATON Corp. And yes, the women’s softball team named themselves the Beavers. I’ll leave the reader to put that together.

  12. James said, on November 11, 2014 at 9:46 am

    Torii Hunter’s defensive “stats” over the years are an amusing study in the value of those “metrics.” At the team level, the Fangraphs numbers seem borderline fraudulent.

  13. dirtnrocksnomo said, on November 11, 2014 at 12:46 pm

    I don’t know about Torii commenting on his junk and all. Maybe he needs some Bone Up 😉


    • Alleykat said, on November 11, 2014 at 1:22 pm

      Nice Dirt!
      Isn’t that what Napoleon used when he tore his Bone-apart..

  14. FanSince59 said, on November 11, 2014 at 2:58 pm

    If the Giants are going after Hunter, they must think they have someone in the wings that is about one or two years out to play left field…would that be Dominguez, Brown or who?

    • stickman said, on November 11, 2014 at 7:06 pm

      Mac Williamson. Injured early last season playing for Richmond where he was tearing up the pitching-heavy Eastern League.

  15. unca_chuck said, on November 11, 2014 at 3:02 pm

    He may not be born yet.

  16. gianthead said, on November 11, 2014 at 3:22 pm

    Tori Hunter would be a joke.

    Let me throw this out there. Heyman had a column yesterday tracking what an anonymous agent and gm thought of potential contracts for the top free agents.

    He threw out that the GM I believe thought Nelson Cruz would get just a one year deal, I guess based on his past, the agent thought 2 years around $35 mill and Heyman picked 3 years at $45 mill.

    If these are anywhere close to being accurate ballpark guesses, I would not mind the Giants over – paying for a limited 3 year deal at $20 mill a year. The short duration would be a great incentive to overpay by a few million.

    Can we afford it? Panda Morse and Romo combined to make $20 mill last year. Panda and Morse had 32 homers and 140 rbis combined. Cruz had 40 homers on his own and 108 rbis. So he is close to being as productive as Panda and Morse combined. Add in a platoon of third of Duffy/Arias/Hector Sanchez and that should more than make up the additional rbis. And can Cruz repeat those numbers. As Twin has argued for the last few years, a right-handed power hitter is just fine at ATT. I think would easily be a 35 homer 110 rbi bat.

    Now are those contract numbers by Heyman anywhere close to reality???

    • unca_chuck said, on November 11, 2014 at 3:23 pm

      Providing he doesn’t test positive again.

      • gianthead said, on November 11, 2014 at 3:34 pm

        That would at least be an out of the contract…so prospective lineup:

        1) Pagan – CF
        2) Panik – 2B
        3) Posey – C
        4) Cruz – LF
        5) Belt – 1B
        6) Pence – RF
        7) Crawford – SS
        8) Duffy/Arias/Sanchez – 3B

        Championship caliber? Fuck yeah…

  17. gianthead said, on November 11, 2014 at 3:29 pm

    The free agent contest had an interesting suggestion for a starting pitching free agent of Ervin Santana. That would be an upgrade over Peavy, especially if you can’t get him on a two year deal. I would pay him $13 mill a year for two. Rotation of Bum-Cain-Santana-Hudson-Petit works for me. Give Lincecum a shot for the 5th starter of you want. See you Voggy…

    • dirtnrocksnomo said, on November 11, 2014 at 3:35 pm

      I don’t see Petit moving to the rotation. With Hudson penciled in and Lincecum getting another shot there will be more than enough work for him. He’s shown that he does well in the long role and Bochy will likely keep him there until his hand is forced.

      • gianthead said, on November 11, 2014 at 4:44 pm

        I have no problem letting Lincecum getting the shot as the 5th starter…

  18. Macdog said, on November 11, 2014 at 3:37 pm

    Matt Williams named NL Manager of the Year. He gets my vote for taking out Zimmermann in Game 2.

    • Bozo said, on November 11, 2014 at 4:29 pm

      Hah. Agreed mac. Good one.

  19. Alleykat said, on November 11, 2014 at 3:46 pm

    Hector Sanchez 3B?
    He’s closer to retiring ( concussion’s)then returning.
    Susac will be the backup Catcher, and since Posey is never gonna play 3rd, who would of been a better option then Sanchez, there really is no place for him right now.

    • gianthead said, on November 11, 2014 at 4:43 pm

      I think if Sanchez wants to make a comeback, 3B may be his best and only option. The kid had a stick and if I recall other reams were asking for him in trades. He may be a mini – Panda if he can overcome this concussion issue…

      • zumiee said, on November 11, 2014 at 4:47 pm

        My wife and I were discussing this during the season: is it possible there’s something about Sanchez’s catching style that allows so many concussive shots to his head? Is that even possible, or is it just random luck; he just had a real bad run of luck? He seemed to attract those hits like a magnet.

      • Flavor said, on November 11, 2014 at 5:06 pm

        Yes, there is. Krukow said there was something in his stance that needed to get fixed. Can’t remember what it was but he mentioned more than a couple of times on his morning radio show

      • zumiee said, on November 11, 2014 at 5:11 pm

        Thanks for the info on that.

  20. zumiee said, on November 11, 2014 at 4:44 pm

    I love Richard Thompson both with and without band. I’ve seen him in concert both ways. But it doesn’t look like the Berkeley concert will work out for me this time, for various reasons.
    It’s at one of my favorite venues, I’ve mentioned it several times: the Freight and Salvage. He was originally booked for two shows, and they both sold out, so the show I was mentioning was a third one that was added.

  21. zumiee said, on November 11, 2014 at 5:09 pm

    Williams and Hurdle are 1 and 2 in the NL Manager of the Year vote.
    They were just road-kill for Bochy, on Bochy’s way to 3 in 5.

  22. zumiee said, on November 11, 2014 at 6:01 pm

    The Kings are ahead of the Mavs 24-4! Nice ball movement by the Kings. Good teamwork.

    • zumiee said, on November 11, 2014 at 6:03 pm

      And the Kings are playing actual, honest to goodness, defense!

      • Flavor said, on November 11, 2014 at 6:22 pm

        they seem to be for real. Kings/Dubs games this year will be awesome

      • zumiee said, on November 11, 2014 at 6:29 pm

        The Kings benefitted from getting rid of Isaiah Thomas; I was never a big fan of him. I see that he’s playing 24 minutes a game for Phoenix; too many minutes, IMO. Scott Brooks was a back-up point guard for 11 years in the NBA, and he averaged 13 minutes a game in his career. I might go 15 minutes for Thomas, but that’s about it. He turns the ball over too much, and looks for his shot too much. The Kings tried to make a starter out of him, which was an ill-advised move, IMO.

  23. zumiee said, on November 11, 2014 at 6:35 pm

    McLemore is such a bigger factor this season for the Kings. His rookie season last season was so erratic. He honed his game in the off-season.

  24. zumiee said, on November 11, 2014 at 7:21 pm

    And then….Cousins gets in foul trouble and it all falls apart. Wilt Chamberlain never fouled out of an NBA game in his entire career. Cousins undid his team tonight.

  25. paulinasia said, on November 11, 2014 at 7:21 pm

    In some ways, I guess Bochy is sort of a microcosm of the team he manages — Giants widely considered to not be the best team in baseball, but they beat the best teams in baseball; Bochy finishes 3rd in Manager of the Year balloting, but (as Zum noted above) he beat the 1st and 2nd guys. I doubt that award would mean all that much to Bruce, not after 3 rings. Craig, another one of your “you didn’t win the World Series” awards….

  26. zumiee said, on November 11, 2014 at 8:08 pm

    I read today that the last Cy Young Award winner to win a championship was Randy Johnson in 2001. Kershaw will be winning his “didn’t win the World Series” Cy Young, and MVP, too. It’s going to be a long off-season for Kershaw, after his flop in the playoffs.

  27. zumiee said, on November 11, 2014 at 8:29 pm

    The MLB/Japan series is being played on an infield that looks like a little league infield: all dirt.

  28. willedav said, on November 11, 2014 at 8:43 pm

    Morse in the NL last year had an OPS second only to Posey at .810 and 35 points higher than Pence. Slugging pct .475 second only to Posey. Dangerous and powerful (at least for SF) middle order bat.
    Blanco OPS of .707, right in line with career numbers. First half of season–.223 BA .301 OB .299 slugging .601 OPS. Finished strong to get up to .260, which again is his ceiling. Fine defensive OF, but does not excel at leadoff and is questionable base runner. Best spot in the order, 7th.or 8th.

    If you believe WAR is the dominant stat in all of baseball, fine, play Blanco to your hearts content. But if you want to score more runs, no. I think he is strictly a back up, and would argue Perez has more upside. Barring a deal for Markakis I’d sign Morse in a heartbeat and back him up with Blanco and Perez, and sub him out late game or for PR.

  29. willedav said, on November 11, 2014 at 8:52 pm

    Barkley cracked me up with his *fast til Lakers win* riff. When one of his buddies asked him, “Suppose Kobe sprains an ankle?”, he said, “I might die.” Said he would survive on water and Vodka, no meals, lol.
    After LA finally got their W, Lakers kid Ed Davis tweeted words to the effect that Fat Ass Barkley can finally eat.
    Which sounded a lot worse than it really was, but still. Ed who?

    CBS blogger said, “Nice retort Ed. Now that Barkley can eat again, Lakers can go back to losing.”
    Which of course they did tonight. They are really historically bad, basically Kobe and nothing, and even when he does play well (like vs. GS here) they still lose handily.

    • zumiee said, on November 11, 2014 at 9:10 pm

      And Kobe’s so unlikable anyway. It probably galls him that he never became beloved nationally, like Jordan, and has been mostly disliked, especially after the incident in Colorado.

  30. zumiee said, on November 11, 2014 at 11:23 pm

    Dodger fans getting philosophical:

    I tried to badger a Giant fan friend the other day…. telling him pitchers are much better remembered for their
    Cy Young awards than WS rings. I think he may have agreed, but didn’t care.

    by Freddy V on Nov 11, 2014 | 9:31 PM up reply

    I’d trade Clayton’s 3 CY’s for 1 WS ring…and so would he.
    Stop badgering Giant fans. They’ve won 3 of the last 5 titles..we’ve won dick. They have what we want. Leave them alone.

    by KellyStephen on Nov 11, 2014 | 9:37 PM up reply

    • DJLoo said, on November 12, 2014 at 4:57 am

      I wonder if Bonds would trade his 7 MVPs…

  31. James said, on November 11, 2014 at 11:43 pm

    It’s treated as a given by many that Morse did a fair bit of damage to the Giants defense while playing LF. I’ve always thought this was pretty suspect, especially in absolute terms. LF gets relatively few plays, and most are routine.

    I also think the Fangraph defensive stats like UZR that downgrade the WAR value of players like Morse are suspect. I noticed that FGs now has a section called “Inside Edge” fielding. It looks like what they’re doing is categorizing each ball hit to a fielder into degrees of difficulty, ranging from Routine to Impossible, and giving the percentage of outs recorded in each. For LF in particular, a very large percentage of all plays falls into those 2 extremes, which is kinda what you’d expect. What’s remarkable is the very small number of actual plays that fall into the other categories. This aligns with my own hunch that a handful of missed plays can highly exaggerate the view of a player’s defensive shortcomings.

    Here are Morse’s numbers:


    Here are Matt Holliday’s:


    I swapped out the percentage of balls Hunter Pence got to in the various middle categories for Morse’s. The difference between Pence and Morse is about 4 more outs made.

  32. […] said, on November 11, 2014 at 11:43 pm […]

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