A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball

The Dodgers Tangled Financial Web of Lies

Posted in Uncategorized by Flavor on June 28, 2011

Sierrra Nevada’s post at the end of the last thread was too good to let die there and I am interested in all your thoughts about the way McCourt was running the team. I honestly didn’t understand everything he was doing but the basic gist of it was that money that was supposed to be shared with other owners was getting diverted back to McCourt. Here’s the link to the rather complicated flow chart: http://www.dodgerdivorce.com/2011/06/mechanics.html

And here is SN’s post. Thanks for doing my work for me today, dude. I could have discussed the irony of Zito and Voggy pitching today’s double header but most of it would have just been obvious observations:

Sierra Nevada said, on June 28, 2011 at 12:17 am (Edit)

Getting back to the question Flavor asked of “are other owners getting away with the same kind of arrangements?”, I would bet that the answer is yes and no.

Yes, in the sense that the league expects a team with attendance and revenue issues to do whatever it takes to stay afloat, and is happy to dole out revenue sharing to such teams as a way of keeping team values up and always on the rise.

But teams like the Yankees and Dodgers are expected to make money and be feeders of the revenue sharing system. So for them, the answer is No. The sin that McCourt has committed is he took a team that owned its own stadium and could be reasonably expected to be a profit center for the league in perpetuity, and turned it into a revenue sink. What McCourt has done has basically fucked the league’s basic economic model. You can bet that the other owners, particularly the ones that count on revenue sharing to fund their “lifestyle” are not going to be too keen on seeing that happen. Not to mention the players association – if the other cash cows of the league get hollowed out like the Dodgers have, the free agent market collapses, because there will be no “profitable teams” to spend lavishly on FA’s and the small market teams will have to live within their means, which means no big free agents for them at all.

The only question is, can McCourt take the league down with him? When betting on legal outcomes, the rule is “bet on the side that has the richest guys”. Normally that means that the rich guys who own the rest of the teams in MLB win the day. But McCourt has borrowed a lot of money from a lot of rich guys to fund his scheme, and they will be on his side if a league victory means they don’t get paid. If McCourts debt has reached “too big to fail” territory, the league is fucked.

Reply
And here’s a poll that is trickier than it looks….

171 comments

171 Responses

Subscribe to comments with RSS.

  1. dirtnrocksnreno@yahoo.com's avatar dirtnrocksnreno@yahoo.com said, on June 28, 2011 at 7:14 am

    I didn’t follow last night but great insight from SN. From everything I have read it sounds like McCourt should never have got through the door and is a greasy little weasel. Giants diehard or not LA going down in flames is bad for the sport. And to think Cuban could have paid cash and brought innovation to the streaming video/internet side of marketing. People mistake him for a blowhard but you dont acquire his kind of wealth being just a blowhard

  2. Rough Trade's avatar Rough Trade said, on June 28, 2011 at 7:35 am

    Baseball will survive. FA mrk is already dominated by the big money teams. Don’t see how this changes that. And if profits and subsequently salaries were to take a bih hit, that might not be a bad thing..

    • Sierra Nevada's avatar Sierra Nevada said, on June 28, 2011 at 8:52 am

      Baseball will survive, for sure. Baseball really is “too big to fail.”

      But my point in last nights post is that, what McCourt did could be done by any owner or ownership group, including ones like the Yankees. Imagine what would happen if the Yankees sources of income became separated from the team. No millions to revenue sharing. Imagine what would happen if the only buyers for MLB teams were finance guys who knew how to gut the profits from a team. There would be no “big money teams.”

      It would be game over. MLB faced the same thing with Hicks, and took him down. But the Rangers weren’t a Yankees/Dodgers type team. You can bet that MLB is going to be even more motivated to take the guy’s bullshit money machine apart.

  3. Nipper's avatar Nipper said, on June 28, 2011 at 8:00 am

    Worrying about the Dodgers…….now really! McCourt is finished and MLB will choose new ownership. Cuban isn’t an MLB type of owner. No way.

  4. stixwiz's avatar stixwiz said, on June 28, 2011 at 8:15 am

    Incisive take, SN. My own take is that our whole society has gone past the days of entrepreneurship and into the shadier realms of finance capitalism where greed and sleaze rule. Personally, what i would like to see is a broader application of the Green Bay Packers model; where subscriptions to generalized team ownership are established in communities and regions as in GB essentially ruling Wisconsin FB, while a large number of Wisconsinites own the Pack.

  5. Sierra Nevada's avatar Sierra Nevada said, on June 28, 2011 at 8:59 am

    By the way, the whole “protecting profitable teams that contribute to revenue sharing” is the essence of the Giants opposition to letting the A’s move to San Jose. Baer has made the argument, and seems to have garnered support from other owners, for the idea that the Giants ownership has turned the team into a juggernaut that can contribute to profit sharing for the long term, and letting the A’s into that territory would threaten the Giant’s profits, and the sharing of it, substantially.

  6. Flavor's avatar Flavor said, on June 28, 2011 at 9:18 am

    Regarding the Voggy/Zito poll, I am assuming that Quade will throw his best hitters at Voggy in Game 1, figuring anyone of his B-list players can beat Zito. I doubt more than 3 or 4 position players play both games. Anyone know what the wind is doing? If Voggy finally has a bad game today our pitching staff will be decimated by the middle of the second game. But seriously, I could see Zito having a good game. 2nd games of double headers are often dull, just finish up quick and go home. Anyone remember if the Haliki no-no was the first or 2nd game? I was there, it was the first game I ever attended, but I can’t remember if it was the first one or the second one—I can’t remember the other game at all……

  7. twinfan1's avatar twinfan1 said, on June 28, 2011 at 9:35 am

    Well, “B” list guys are usually impatient hitters, the kind Zits can handle..Anyway, nobody’s getting rich guessing how Zito will fare. As to Vogelsong, its also “who knows?” If you’ve seen interviews with him, he talks like it’s a magic spell…
    It would be cool if it lasted long enough for him to make the ASG..

  8. Del Mar Dennis's avatar Del Mar Dennis said, on June 28, 2011 at 9:44 am

    I guess we officially have a platoon in CF. Rowand and Tejada back-to-back. The natives ought to love that…

    CF Rowand
    SS Tejada
    1B Huff
    RF Ross
    3B Sandoval
    LF Burrell
    2B Hall
    C Stewart
    P Vogelsong

  9. Kevin's avatar Kevin said, on June 28, 2011 at 9:49 am

    Dennis is slacking so here you all go

    Rowand CF
    Tejada SS
    Huff 1B
    Ross RF
    Sandoval 3B
    Burrell LF
    Hall 2B,
    Stewart C,
    Vogelsong P

    • Del Mar Dennis's avatar Del Mar Dennis said, on June 28, 2011 at 9:52 am

      You were saying? I should expect so much coming from an A*** S**** apologist…

      • twinfan1's avatar twinfan1 said, on June 28, 2011 at 10:01 am

        Kevin, I let him have his snarky little pleasure.. but DD- you’re late on the Splash. MOVE!

      • TedSpe's avatar TedSpe said, on June 28, 2011 at 10:05 am

        Being a little shit, I just posted on the Splash

      • Kevin's avatar Kevin said, on June 28, 2011 at 10:41 am

        LOL, come on Dennis say it wilth me, Alex Smith is the 49er starting QB for the 2011 season. live it, embrace it, love it!!

      • Kevin's avatar Kevin said, on June 28, 2011 at 10:44 am

        I hit refresh before I typed anything and your LU hadn’t come in yet. weird.

  10. twinfan1's avatar twinfan1 said, on June 28, 2011 at 9:53 am

    I like your LU better, Kevin

  11. TedSpe's avatar TedSpe said, on June 28, 2011 at 10:02 am

    Wonder if there’ll be a rain delay. It’s coming down at the moment

  12. twinfan1's avatar twinfan1 said, on June 28, 2011 at 10:10 am

    Weird, the weather report says it’s sunny there. Are you talking about HERE, Ted?

    • TedSpe's avatar TedSpe said, on June 28, 2011 at 10:22 am

      Downtown San Francisco. Although it’s waning a bit. Still steady but not pouring

    • TedSpe's avatar TedSpe said, on June 28, 2011 at 10:25 am

      Oh shit! For whatever reason, I though today was a home game.
      I’ll shut up now

  13. Bozo's avatar Bozo said, on June 28, 2011 at 10:21 am

    MLB ownership is a strange club. Some of the owners are also more pals with Selig than others. From what I’ve read some of the Selig gang didn’t much care for McCourt. The main reason Selig put a kibosh on the FOX deal (if you can believe anything that, that used car salesman says) was because it included an additional 50 mil for both Frank and his ex to go directly into their pockets. If you look at some of the shady deals with ol’ Bud’s pals like letting Loria out of Montreal to buy Florida from Henry so he could then buy Boston and MLB would run Montreal, you just have to think Frank and Bud were not the best of pals. Or, the flush deal Angelos got when MLB sold and moved the Expos to DC (I think that some of that cash goes directly into Angelos’ pocket). Or, the teams like Bud’s own Brew Crew taking money from the revenue sharing and not seeming to be putting it back into the team (I mean the Pirates can’t win in 18 years? Come on). Where did that cash go?
    I’m sure most owners are doing somethings that doesn’t really show on the books. The Giants for example, have two (at least) corporations, The baseball club and the stadium. The Giants will make a percentage off of the concessions as well as the stadium group (at the Stick the City ran the concessions so they got that percentage split). Also, I’m pretty sure the baseball club pays rent to the stadium group to play at ATT (it just goes from the left pocket to the right). To the public the owners talk about the stadium debt, I’m guessing they only report the rent to MLB. I’d be willing to bet the Giants and other clubs have at least 3 sets of books, one gets reported to Forbes, one to MLB and one to the ownership group or individual. That’s why I think the MLB ownership gang didn’t think McCourt was their type of sleazeball and said bye, bye (also there was probably some numbers listed in the divorce that MLB didn’t really want to be public).
    Since I’m not an owner a lot of this is just guessing, the profits for a MLB team are murky at best.

    • Bozo's avatar Bozo said, on June 28, 2011 at 10:25 am

      For those that don’t want to read that long post. MLB owners are sleazeballs and McCourt wasn’t their kind of sleaze.

  14. stixwiz's avatar stixwiz said, on June 28, 2011 at 10:24 am

    Checked out the Augusta Green Jackets website for the first time this season. You know, the A-ball Sally League team. Not too much talent lodged there, but a tad more hopeful than the Fresnobus as currently constituted. Appears the Giants are well stockpiled for quality third basemen. Additional to Conor Gillaspie and Chris Dominguez in AAA and AA; they have a second year kid outta Louisville who has picked up his power-stroke compared with his first MiL season at Salem Keizer. 11th rounder Adam Duvall currently is hitting only in the .260’s, but half of his 73 hits have been of the E.B. variety with 17 doubles a pair of triples and 17 long-balls. On the hitting-challenged Jackets he has tallied 43 times and driven in 57, along with 33 walks as compared with 53 strikeouts. Duvall may be worth the occasional eyeballing.

    Also playing for Augusta is defensive whiz SS Ehire Adrianza, who was injured early on. His offensive stats are modest with a .321 OBP; a .386 SP and a .236 BA. No SS help there in the immediate future.

  15. twinfan1's avatar twinfan1 said, on June 28, 2011 at 10:30 am

    Bochy’s son Brett is there- some good numbers. 16.2 IP 10 H 6 BB 23 K 2.70 ERA

  16. Del Mar Dennis's avatar Del Mar Dennis said, on June 28, 2011 at 10:45 am

    I can’t believe I’m gonna actually ask this question, but is Whitey going to be available to catch Gm 2?
    He’s missed the last 3 with his quad and elbow issues. Asking a lot of Stewart to catch both…

  17. Craig Vaughan's avatar Craig Vaughan said, on June 28, 2011 at 10:55 am

    I think Whitey getting back burnered had more to do with Stewart’s emergence and less to do with injuries. He’ll catch the 2nd game. But Stewart, I think, has moved ahead as the #1 catcher until they deal for one……..

  18. eddacker's avatar eddacker said, on June 28, 2011 at 11:08 am

    I do like the confidence and enthusiasm Stewart shows as the backstop. Of course the defense is good and offense isn’t much lower than Eli

  19. twinfan1's avatar twinfan1 said, on June 28, 2011 at 11:19 am

    Pavlovic on Baggs’ blog also thought Stewart had passed Whitey. He noted that yesterday. He hasn’t shown it yet but he’s also a slightly better hitter than Eli. It’s pretty much a no brainer. Whitey can’t hit OR catch OR throw..
    Stewart’s a fine talker, too. He and Affeldt should speak for everybody..

  20. willieD's avatar willieD said, on June 28, 2011 at 11:29 am

    that is a nice slide from the Gamer, angling your body away and not giving the C anything but a couple fingers to get the tag on.

  21. twinfan1's avatar twinfan1 said, on June 28, 2011 at 11:34 am

    The Gamer’s talents may have diminished but he knows how to play the ggame..

  22. eddacker's avatar eddacker said, on June 28, 2011 at 11:36 am

    OK, all weekend I winged about ESPN not having the Giants games on, but here it is 7:30 in the evening and the CSBA game is on, in HD with our announcers and we are up 3-0.
    World Series Champions and me
    yowser!

  23. eddacker's avatar eddacker said, on June 28, 2011 at 11:37 am

    Looks like Rowand likes the warm confines

  24. Del Mar Dennis's avatar Del Mar Dennis said, on June 28, 2011 at 11:52 am

    Like I said yesterday, wind’s blowing out.

  25. twinfan1's avatar twinfan1 said, on June 28, 2011 at 11:53 am

    I don’t think this game ends 3-2.

  26. twinfan1's avatar twinfan1 said, on June 28, 2011 at 11:58 am

    Hadn’t heard much, so I checked Runzler’s numbers- 14 BB in 16 innings. Not exactly stretching out- that’s 5 starts. 4.50 ERA.

  27. Del Mar Dennis's avatar Del Mar Dennis said, on June 28, 2011 at 11:58 am

    That didn’t take long. Just a note: The Giants are 17-0 when they get a lead of at least three runs.
    This one will be a test to make it 18-0.

  28. Bozo's avatar Bozo said, on June 28, 2011 at 12:06 pm

    Panda cookin.

  29. willieD's avatar willieD said, on June 28, 2011 at 12:06 pm

    Nice shot from sando! Hope SF doesn’t try and go HR derby on this guy…4 singles and a walk got them 3 in the first. Be patient, don’t try to do too much.

  30. Bozo's avatar Bozo said, on June 28, 2011 at 12:09 pm

    Helloooo Mr. Bat.

  31. unca_chuck's avatar unca_chuck said, on June 28, 2011 at 12:09 pm

    Pat the reawakened bat!

  32. That's *mr* mrbill to you!'s avatar That's *mr* mrbill to you! said, on June 28, 2011 at 12:10 pm

    It’s gonna be a barn-burner.

  33. Del Mar Dennis's avatar Del Mar Dennis said, on June 28, 2011 at 12:13 pm

    This HP ump is brutal. His zone is all over the place…

  34. twinfan1's avatar twinfan1 said, on June 28, 2011 at 12:18 pm

    First team to 12?

  35. Kevin's avatar Kevin said, on June 28, 2011 at 12:22 pm

    Well, if the Giants keep up this offense, they will probably have none for the Zit boy. Of course if the wind is still blowing out for Zito’s game his batting practice fast ball will be landing on the street or into one of the open windows that is across the street from the ball park.

  36. TedSpe's avatar TedSpe said, on June 28, 2011 at 12:28 pm

    Phew

  37. willieD's avatar willieD said, on June 28, 2011 at 12:29 pm

    great job by vogs there…might have saved the day with the two Ks.

  38. Kevin's avatar Kevin said, on June 28, 2011 at 12:33 pm

    watching ESPN game cast, showing picture of batter and pitcher. They had Vogle with a Pirates hat on and the Cubs pitcher with a Mariners hat on. ESPN at its best!!

  39. stixwiz's avatar stixwiz said, on June 28, 2011 at 12:34 pm

    Willie: You beat me to the punch. Things couldda really gotten outta hand with the meat of the order and a couple guys on with only one out. Those K’s were extra special. Vogelsong gutted it out very nicely. Just got in from gardening to that scene, quickly noted how the Giants scored and then switched over to e-mail, not to jinx the Jints.

    Whaddam i tell youse guys about the hitters picking it up on this road trip. Course i was hardly alone in that observation.

  40. twinfan1's avatar twinfan1 said, on June 28, 2011 at 12:42 pm

    Giants have owned the Game 2 starter, Rodrigo Lopez.He’s 0-3 6.97 in 6 starts.

    • Del Mar Dennis's avatar Del Mar Dennis said, on June 28, 2011 at 12:53 pm

      So with Zito going as well, I take it you like the OVER.
      Hey, I just got a call from CSN. I won some prize contest answering some trivia questions. They’re going to announce my name tonight on Chron Live at 9 PM. Be sure and set your DVR…

  41. unca_chuck's avatar unca_chuck said, on June 28, 2011 at 12:48 pm

    Another jam, another escape . . .

    WOW. Special K to end the threat . . .

  42. unca_chuck's avatar unca_chuck said, on June 28, 2011 at 12:57 pm

    Stewie’s bat is coming alive . . .

  43. unca_chuck's avatar unca_chuck said, on June 28, 2011 at 1:03 pm

    Chalk one up for Stix . . .

  44. Del Mar Dennis's avatar Del Mar Dennis said, on June 28, 2011 at 1:03 pm

    I was just about to suggest PHing Torres for Rowand vs the right-hander. WTF do I know?

  45. Bozo's avatar Bozo said, on June 28, 2011 at 1:03 pm

    sweet

  46. willieD's avatar willieD said, on June 28, 2011 at 1:04 pm

    nice hustle from stewart, who looked like he was out. Gamer and burrell raking today.
    Meanwhile, cubs team ERA taking another great leap forward.

  47. twinfan1's avatar twinfan1 said, on June 28, 2011 at 1:08 pm

    Repay showed he was safe.

  48. Sierra Nevada's avatar Sierra Nevada said, on June 28, 2011 at 1:10 pm

    C’mon Vogelsong, step on their throats.

  49. UsedtobebigSarge's avatar UsedtobebigSarge said, on June 28, 2011 at 1:17 pm

    Hall sucks ass!

  50. unca_chuck's avatar unca_chuck said, on June 28, 2011 at 1:19 pm

    Vogie got shaved on about 3 of those pitches. Bullshit.

  51. unca_chuck's avatar unca_chuck said, on June 28, 2011 at 1:23 pm

    Unbelievable. This strike zone is an amorphous blob . . .

  52. unca_chuck's avatar unca_chuck said, on June 28, 2011 at 1:23 pm

    Fuck. Hall ain’t flying back from Chi-town

  53. UsedtobebigSarge's avatar UsedtobebigSarge said, on June 28, 2011 at 1:24 pm

    The umpire sucks ass, and for the record Hall sucks ass!

  54. Del Mar Dennis's avatar Del Mar Dennis said, on June 28, 2011 at 1:24 pm

    Hall is a goddamn butcher. But shame on Vogelsong for walking ’em loaded with an 8 run lead…

    • unca_chuck's avatar unca_chuck said, on June 28, 2011 at 1:25 pm

      Well, the ump had plenty to do with the walks . . .

  55. Bozo's avatar Bozo said, on June 28, 2011 at 1:24 pm

    I’m guessing that Hall won’t be playing in the nitecap.

  56. unca_chuck's avatar unca_chuck said, on June 28, 2011 at 1:24 pm

    That better be an error.

  57. unca_chuck's avatar unca_chuck said, on June 28, 2011 at 1:26 pm

    Font has 2 more weeks of rehab?

  58. Craig Vaughan's avatar Craig Vaughan said, on June 28, 2011 at 1:28 pm

    I’m only catching this on the internet, but Christ, talk about staggering into a win. Voggy is at 107 pitches, they arten’t sending him out for the 6th are they? He didn’t look like he got much help from his defense, at least mlb gameday didn’t make it look like he did.

  59. Sierra Nevada's avatar Sierra Nevada said, on June 28, 2011 at 1:30 pm

    That was not throat-steppage, Ryan. Well Giants, now that you’ve helped them off the mat, could you at least kick them in the groin?

  60. unca_chuck's avatar unca_chuck said, on June 28, 2011 at 1:30 pm

    Well, shit that was getting called strikes were squeezed off for the first 2 walks.

  61. unca_chuck's avatar unca_chuck said, on June 28, 2011 at 1:32 pm

    Vogie’s looking like he’s going to keep going.

  62. unca_chuck's avatar unca_chuck said, on June 28, 2011 at 1:33 pm

    Hall needs to hit a 5 run HR here to make up for his shit inning.

  63. unca_chuck's avatar unca_chuck said, on June 28, 2011 at 1:33 pm

    TF, where’s yer post go?

  64. Rough Trade's avatar Rough Trade said, on June 28, 2011 at 1:37 pm

    I take it we won’t be hearing anymore bitching about Burriss starting?

  65. unca_chuck's avatar unca_chuck said, on June 28, 2011 at 1:41 pm

    Nice AB by Nate . . .

  66. That's *mr* mrbill to you!'s avatar That's *mr* mrbill to you! said, on June 28, 2011 at 1:41 pm

    first to 12 … heh.

  67. Kevin's avatar Kevin said, on June 28, 2011 at 2:05 pm

    over on ESPN Game cast, they have a box that gives the percentage of the chance the team is going to win. right now they give the Giants a 98% chance of winning.

  68. Sierra Nevada's avatar Sierra Nevada said, on June 28, 2011 at 2:28 pm

    If the park and the lineups keep the scoring up for the 2nd game, criminy, what a day for Zito to come back.

  69. twinfan1's avatar twinfan1 said, on June 28, 2011 at 2:38 pm

    18 to go.

  70. Del Mar Dennis's avatar Del Mar Dennis said, on June 28, 2011 at 2:39 pm

    Like clockwork. Tejada homers once every 125 ABs this year…

    • eddacker's avatar eddacker said, on June 28, 2011 at 2:44 pm

      well let us pray he gets 3000 ABs this season

  71. unca_chuck's avatar unca_chuck said, on June 28, 2011 at 2:45 pm

    Ballgame . . .

    6-1 for Vogie . . .

  72. twinfan1's avatar twinfan1 said, on June 28, 2011 at 2:46 pm

    Get used to him, dumbalayas.

  73. Rough Trade's avatar Rough Trade said, on June 28, 2011 at 2:48 pm

    Good for Miggy. But I thought he would show more exuberance than that considering how jacked he gets on a broken bat single.

    Great day to be hanging around the house. Hopefully Zits won’t spoil the party.

  74. eddacker's avatar eddacker said, on June 28, 2011 at 2:50 pm

    Actually, I was pro Tejeda and recently Huff is a bigger question mark.

    as in where are his numbers.

    but who knew? Stewart and Crawford are filling some holes. volgie is gold. and now? the new BZ!

  75. Nipper's avatar Nipper said, on June 28, 2011 at 2:55 pm

    A sweet game!

Newer Comments »

Comments are closed.