A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball

Taming the Dirrrrrty Snakes

Posted in Uncategorized by Flavor on August 4, 2011

Yesterday was a good example of why I’m not worried about the Snakes. When your big free agent pick up is Jason Marquis, you’ve got problems. Marquis sucks. He’s usually good against us and he sucks against everyone else. But yesterday we slapped his ass around. And Voggy showed once again why he’s the MVP of this team. Ha, kidding. No more MVP talk from me. But he’s been lights out at home and how critical will that be come playoff time?

Cabrera has been fine. Nice to see him hit something. Really, anything was going to be an upgrade over what we had. And, Cabrera does have the *experience thing* going for him. I never doubted his attitude on his teammates, he seems to be having a ball out there. Who wouldn’t after getting traded to the World Champs? It’s possible he’s going to ride that high all the way to and through the playoffs. It’s possible. I still don’t like the bad karma of picking up the arch nemesis of our World Series hero. But whatever, we have a title to defend, I’ll worry about that curse if it ever comes to pass. (Notice how I never use the word *jinx*????) 🙂

336 Responses

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  1. unca chuck's avatar unca chuck said, on August 4, 2011 at 9:17 pm

    One of the fastest games this year . . .

  2. snarkk's avatar snarkk said, on August 4, 2011 at 9:18 pm

    Per ESPN, Bum is the 5th worst run supported pitcher in the NL, before tonite’s game. He’s moving up (or down, depending on how you look at it) after this one…

  3. snarkk's avatar snarkk said, on August 4, 2011 at 9:19 pm

    Bochy ought to go out and throw a tantrum at this ump and get thrown out, Stir the pot. Do something…

  4. twinfan1's avatar twinfan1 said, on August 4, 2011 at 9:20 pm

    Jesus Horatio Christ, it’s a Doomer Convention.

  5. unca chuck's avatar unca chuck said, on August 4, 2011 at 9:22 pm

    Slow night

  6. unca chuck's avatar unca chuck said, on August 4, 2011 at 9:24 pm

    Fuck . . .

  7. twinfan1's avatar twinfan1 said, on August 4, 2011 at 9:25 pm

    Any progress on that solution. Willie?

  8. twinfan1's avatar twinfan1 said, on August 4, 2011 at 9:32 pm

    You idiots think maybe Lee has had something to do with this?

  9. DJLoo's avatar DJLoo said, on August 4, 2011 at 9:35 pm

    Fuck him. He’ll never live down Renteria.

  10. paulinasia's avatar paulinasia said, on August 4, 2011 at 9:36 pm

    I’m not an idiot. Lee had everything to do with it.

    • twinfan1's avatar twinfan1 said, on August 4, 2011 at 9:41 pm

      Talking to the idiots, not you.

      • DJLoo's avatar DJLoo said, on August 4, 2011 at 10:14 pm

        If we could talk to the idiots, learn their languages
        Think of all the things we could discuss
        If we could walk with the idiots, talk with the idiots,
        Grunt and squeak and squawk with the idiots,
        And they could squeak and squawk and speak and talk to us.

      • ewisco's avatar ewisco said, on August 4, 2011 at 10:26 pm

        nice loo.

  11. snarkk's avatar snarkk said, on August 4, 2011 at 9:36 pm

    Ross takes 2 straight fballs right down the inside part of the plate, thigh high, to end it. This offense is crap, has been crap, and will be crap. The pitching must carry this squad to the playoffs, this shit for brains offense will not get it done. Fuck this!….

    • twinfan1's avatar twinfan1 said, on August 4, 2011 at 9:44 pm

      Sounds like you’ve had enough.

  12. unca chuck's avatar unca chuck said, on August 4, 2011 at 9:38 pm

    Hinshaw DFAed to make room for DeRosa . . .

  13. Rough Trade's avatar Rough Trade said, on August 4, 2011 at 9:39 pm

    Always been about the pitching.

    Paul, What we miss from last yr; Huff Ross and Torres not the same and those ‘big’ hr’s from Burrell and Uribe.

    • twinfan1's avatar twinfan1 said, on August 4, 2011 at 9:43 pm

      Well, and several DL stints plus two guys out for the year. Those things do hurt.

    • zumie's avatar zumie said, on August 4, 2011 at 9:45 pm

      Yeah- the ‘game-changing’ homerun. We don’t get too many of those any more.

  14. snarkk's avatar snarkk said, on August 4, 2011 at 9:52 pm

    Sweet — Cody with the golden sombrero.
    Beltran must be wondering WTF kind of loser hitters he’s signed on with. Right now, the only position guys worth a crap are Beltran, Keppinger, and Panda, with Cabrera an honorable mention just because he hasn’t been here long enough to piss me off.. Everybody else can be DFA’d and be replaced by a Fresburgian, and I wouldn’t give a crap. Geez, I’m glad they won last year….

    • twinfan1's avatar twinfan1 said, on August 4, 2011 at 9:55 pm

      Don’t you have a bogus PI case to pursue? Beltran is thrilled he’s with a contender…

    • James's avatar James said, on August 4, 2011 at 9:58 pm

      I think they have to hold on to the guys in the commercials, at least. I expect to enjoy some Pat Burrell ABs in Sept. as a result.

  15. paulinasia's avatar paulinasia said, on August 4, 2011 at 9:56 pm

    Yes, when I was talking about the 3 new additions really not being “additions” but replacements, I was trying to think positively that they would in fact replace what we’ve missed this year due mostly to injury. But you’re absolutely right about production being down from others as well.

    Will Burrell get more chances once he’s back? He and Pablo seem to be the only HR threats, plus Huff now and then. If they ain’t gonna hit the big ‘taters, they’s gots to do something else. Rallies. Line drive hits. Smart base-running. Kind of like yesterday. I still think they can. Maybe Sabean will also pull off another stellar waiver wire pickup this month or next. Not every pitcher is Cliff Lee. Yesterday I think will be a better harbinger (not sure I’ve ever actually typed that word before…) than today.

    • James's avatar James said, on August 4, 2011 at 10:03 pm

      Pat the Bat still with the second highest OPS on the team, excluding Beltran’s NYC PAs

  16. snarkk's avatar snarkk said, on August 4, 2011 at 9:59 pm

    Screw Lee. He’s threw crap the whole July. Like just about everybody else, he comes against the Giants and looks like fuckin’ Koufax. Admit it. This team’s offense stinks on ice, it is dead fish washed against the shore, it is a sewer farm with a backed up main drain. It is horrific, with stats to prove it. If I’m a Giants pitcher, I look in the mirror and see Edward Munch’s “Scream” staring back at me…

    • twinfan1's avatar twinfan1 said, on August 4, 2011 at 10:03 pm

      The only thing worse than the offense is Snark bitching about it 24/7. STFU.

  17. twinfan1's avatar twinfan1 said, on August 4, 2011 at 10:00 pm

    Yeah, Sabean missed out on Henry Blanco…

  18. twinfan1's avatar twinfan1 said, on August 4, 2011 at 10:09 pm

    Snarkk must be a prime coronary candidate. He’s fucking postal, every game, win or lose. Why even watch them if it makes you so fucking miserable for months at a time ? See if Denny will give you a Ledger, pal..

    • twinfan1's avatar twinfan1 said, on August 4, 2011 at 10:16 pm

      He was fucking bitching after the 8-1 win.Pathetic..

  19. paulinasia's avatar paulinasia said, on August 4, 2011 at 10:10 pm

    Agree, James, about Burrell (unless you were joking about looking forward to more at bats for him)…. He’ll be rested, too, for all his non-play of late. And… Lee has, on numerous occasions, looked like Koufax… and will continue to do so…

    • James's avatar James said, on August 4, 2011 at 10:19 pm

      No, not joking, Paul, although I think you and I may be the only ones on The Flap who share that view.

    • snarkk's avatar snarkk said, on August 4, 2011 at 10:20 pm

      Against the Giants, they ALL look like Koufax and Drysdale…

      • twinfan1's avatar twinfan1 said, on August 4, 2011 at 10:27 pm

        You’ve made your point for the 1256th time. .

  20. twinfan1's avatar twinfan1 said, on August 4, 2011 at 10:23 pm

    What is supposed to be wrong with him? I forget.

  21. ewisco's avatar ewisco said, on August 4, 2011 at 10:31 pm

    one game. not part of a season ending series. come back off the bridge. good night gentlemen.

  22. twinfan1's avatar twinfan1 said, on August 4, 2011 at 10:36 pm

    Ewisco, those on the bridge should be encouraged to jump

  23. Del Mar Dennis's avatar Del Mar Dennis said, on August 4, 2011 at 10:52 pm

    “Pat the Bat still with the second highest OPS on the team, excluding Beltran’s NYC PAs”

    James still coming hard for his number one guy. You got to respect a man for that. What I can’t respect is the fact that statement displays the inadequacies we still have in the outfield. Worley tomorrow? Shitholtz in LF, I would imagine. Cody Ross? Seriously. Plunk that bat-throwing horse-disrespecting sumbitch. I’m sick and tired of Cody still skating from that bat toss vs Cain. That shit lingers, and it’s here to stay — until we plunk him!

  24. twinfan1's avatar twinfan1 said, on August 4, 2011 at 11:17 pm

    Well, if Fathead hasn’t figgered it out yet, Belt won’t be in the 4 tomorrow. We’ll see but consensus is that will be Beltran/Sandoval 3-4, as God intended. Last night Torres was on twice while drawing 21 of the 80 pitches Marquis threw. I’d suspect he’s in. Probably Mr. MVP,too.

  25. Del Mar Dennis's avatar Del Mar Dennis said, on August 4, 2011 at 11:44 pm

    I’ll say it again — Cody Ross needs to get plunked in the ass!

  26. willieD's avatar willieD said, on August 5, 2011 at 8:34 am

    I was following along cbssports game tracker site in the first inning last night, which was mostly phils fans arguing over whether rollins made a dumb move trying to steal. Kuiper had said pitch before he was leaning pretty hard as bum ignored him. Anyway, one of them asked, “How can it be 59 degrees?”
    Summer in SF. Out of towners don’t get how 20 minutes can equal such a difference.
    That was Lee’s 5th shutout of the year, so it’s hardly an embarrassment. And Bum did mostly silence the Philly bats, including Howard. Pitching like that and SF will be fine, this weekend and beyond.

  27. willieD's avatar willieD said, on August 5, 2011 at 9:03 am

    Nice fangraphs article on the Giants pen from 8/4. Props to romo lopez and ramirez, interesting comments from bloggers, including couple local SF fans. good stuff.

  28. Nipper's avatar Nipper said, on August 5, 2011 at 9:44 am

    No disgrace to lose to Lee when he’s at the top of his game……..frustrating sure.

  29. stixwiz's avatar stixwiz said, on August 5, 2011 at 9:55 am

    True. A loss to Lee is a loss to Lee. Totally tough when he’s on. Every position player but Ross got a hit against him, but no way could they bunch them. Point is, they need to remember this evening that Worley is not Lee and to take out their frustrations on him. Bout time that kid gets taken down a peg or two. If nothing else it’s about time Lady Luck came into play on the Giants behalf.

  30. twinfan1's avatar twinfan1 said, on August 5, 2011 at 10:45 am

    Good posts, Willie. As always.

  31. Del Mar Dennis's avatar Del Mar Dennis said, on August 5, 2011 at 10:50 am

    I have Worley going in one of my fantasy leagues. I hope I don’t *jinx* it for tonight.
    Never fret the jinx. Our skipper is as superstitious as I am. I knew there was a reason I liked Bochy…

  32. Rough Trade's avatar Rough Trade said, on August 5, 2011 at 11:02 am

    I’m waiting for the usual gleeful “what’s the problem? We’re still in first place!!!”

    • Kevin's avatar Kevin said, on August 5, 2011 at 11:21 am

      Ask and you shall receive, First place, still top pitching staff, still no offense. TF, explain how Bochy bats Ross in the lead off spot and then drops him to the 8 hole.

      • zumarust's avatar zumarust said, on August 5, 2011 at 11:27 am

        Ross batted in the 8 hole a few times last season. I would say that, currently, only Keppinger, Sandoval, Beltran, and Cabrera have established permanence in the lineup. Everybody else is open to change.

      • twinfan1's avatar twinfan1 said, on August 5, 2011 at 11:42 am

        I guess I missed it, has Bochy divulged tonight’s line up?

    • twinfan1's avatar twinfan1 said, on August 5, 2011 at 11:38 am

      Did Snarkk steal your screen name while you slept?

  33. twinfan1's avatar twinfan1 said, on August 5, 2011 at 11:39 am

    Sorry, that was meant to reply to RT..

  34. twinfan1's avatar twinfan1 said, on August 5, 2011 at 11:42 am

    I’m waiting for the usual gleeful “the season is over”

    • Rough Trade's avatar Rough Trade said, on August 5, 2011 at 12:42 pm

      Get a grip man. You’re losing your sense of humor.

      • twinfan1's avatar twinfan1 said, on August 5, 2011 at 1:20 pm

        It wasn’t funny unless it was a Snarkk impersonation… I’m sure you’ll recover. Just make notes of my posts…

  35. James's avatar James said, on August 5, 2011 at 12:11 pm

    The team runs scored/allowed totals are again even at 112 games into the season. Without an uptick in the offense, the plus 6 in the Pythagrean W-L could evaporate pretty quickly. On the other hand, some years you just get lucky. Or in our case, the really bad luck is canceled by some good.

    • James's avatar James said, on August 5, 2011 at 12:40 pm

      Of course a big uptick could wipe put the plus 6, too :-). The presumption is that the Giants will continue to play a lot of close games.

  36. stixwiz's avatar stixwiz said, on August 5, 2011 at 12:48 pm

    These next couple weeks with six more at home vs the Phils and Pirates and then a ten game r.t. including 3 at Fla and 4 in Hotlanta will be a trying time for this team. I wouldn’t be all out of shape if they go .500 during this period. Later in the month, starting in Houston, the opponents all have losing records. Divisional rivals during September means SF should win upwards of 60% of those games. Team pretty much needs to win 4 of 6 during the remainder of the homestretch to hold the line vs the Snakes. Otherwise, second place in the NLW may loom for a spell. Giants look to have more staying power through September than Arizona, though.

  37. Del Mar Dennis's avatar Del Mar Dennis said, on August 5, 2011 at 1:12 pm

    I wish I could say what I knew Dirrty’s gonna give us tonight. It’s a total crapshoot. But I think as usual, control will be paramount. Philly has the 2nd least amount of Ks, and the 4th most amount of Ws. They’re pretty patient and selective at the plate. No big mystery for Dirrrty to be successful tonight — throw strikes!

    • James's avatar James said, on August 5, 2011 at 1:31 pm

      If the biceps pain was really acute, it would explain how his control went from poor to unacceptable. It’s interesting that BW is at *5* BBs per 9 innings. Both testify to the fact that a walk is truly not as good as a hit when the issuer of the walks also Ks 1 per inning and has a good hits/IP ratio.

      • twinfan1's avatar twinfan1 said, on August 5, 2011 at 1:48 pm

        WHIP is completely abused stat by the riff raff. I doubt that most Bers truly understand that it’s two stats. Jim Kaat and Nolan Ryan had the same WHIP. They must be the same guy….

      • James's avatar James said, on August 5, 2011 at 3:04 pm

        Oddly, this argues for at least reconsidering Dirty as a bullpen guy. The drop off in velocity from 92-94 to 89-91 usually happens after a couple of innings, and it predates his “injury.” I wonder if he hasn’t been consistently battling some level of biceps pain as a starter.

  38. twinfan1's avatar twinfan1 said, on August 5, 2011 at 1:23 pm

    Yeah, it’s a mystery. But a show of hands for those who wish Zits had the spot. Kinda funny- if Zits pitched as Dirty has at his worst, Zitfuck WOULD be back…

  39. Kevin's avatar Kevin said, on August 5, 2011 at 1:29 pm

    Dirrty had better have the concentration of a vulture waiting for something to Die

  40. twinfan1's avatar twinfan1 said, on August 5, 2011 at 1:36 pm

    Considering what our level headed starters have done to put the team in the hole immediately of late, maybe a Nut Case start is just the ticket.

  41. eddacker's avatar eddacker said, on August 5, 2011 at 1:38 pm

    My this season keeps rolling on! And it has been a good one. Love watching this team play, great park, great manager and Grateful Dead Day.
    No blueprint for Sanchez’s start and there has been no blueprint for this team and they are leading the division. While torture is still with us it has taken on a different method.
    we know this team can win, we have no reason to give up hope. The newest challenge will be the dog days; but I don’t want to skip to the end of the book and see what happens ’cause I am enjoying my team.
    Oh, fuck the fillies

  42. Del Mar Dennis's avatar Del Mar Dennis said, on August 5, 2011 at 2:12 pm

    Hey, we just released Jose Casilla. I guess that was the corresponding 40-man move needed for MDR’s return.
    Does that mean we’re going with only 11 pitchers? Be still my heart.

    • Del Mar Dennis's avatar Del Mar Dennis said, on August 5, 2011 at 2:39 pm

      Never mind, I got my Casilla’s mixed up. You’ve seen one Casilla you’ve seen ’em all…

  43. Del Mar Dennis's avatar Del Mar Dennis said, on August 5, 2011 at 3:13 pm

    Torres CF, Keppinger 2B, Beltran RF, Sandoval 3B, Huff 1B, Cabrera SS, Schierholtz LF, Whiteside C, J. Sanchez P

  44. Freshtodef80's avatar Dr. Mantis Toboggan said, on August 5, 2011 at 3:33 pm

    The cult of Nate has to be depressed!

  45. snarkk's avatar snarkk said, on August 5, 2011 at 3:35 pm

    Phills are good at taking pitches. That ain’t good when Dirrty pitches…

    • James's avatar James said, on August 5, 2011 at 3:47 pm

      20 BBs in 32 innings, but 2.86 ERA, 3-1 W-L. It ain’t exactly been bad until now.

      • twinfan1's avatar twinfan1 said, on August 5, 2011 at 4:35 pm

        Your response is why Snarkk despises numbers.

  46. zumie's avatar zumie said, on August 5, 2011 at 3:59 pm

    Well, I wasn’t inclined to do it, but I looked up the baseball pythagorean theory. My computer’s text wasn’t able to show the formula properly when I tried to cut and paste it over here. The theory doesn’t strike me as Bill James’ best work.
    “Pythagorean expectation is a formula invented by Bill James to estimate how many games a baseball team “should” have won based on the number of runs they scored and allowed. Comparing a team’s actual and Pythagorean winning percentage can be used to evaluate how lucky that team was (by examining the variation between the two winning percentages). The term is derived from the formula’s resemblance to the Pythagorean theorem.”

    • snarkk's avatar snarkk said, on August 5, 2011 at 4:15 pm

      Who gives a crap what a team “should” have won based on yet another Jamesian formula? They won what they won. I’m guessing, but this formula applied probably shows the Giants should have won fewer games last year, and probably this year, too. Intuitively, we may already know that. That’s the chemistry, the mojo, the whole greater than the sum of the parts that makes a championship year special. The actual results mixed with the personalities of the players make the team’s performance all the more remarkable and enjoyable without the artifice of extending the reach of Pythagoras to reduce the sweet ephemeral to bland numerology…

      • twinfan1's avatar twinfan1 said, on August 5, 2011 at 4:17 pm

        Actually, last year the Pythagorean figure was 94-68.

      • James's avatar James said, on August 5, 2011 at 4:18 pm

        Yawn.

      • zumie's avatar zumie said, on August 5, 2011 at 4:23 pm

        Whether people agree with Snarkk on that or disagree with him, this is a nicely written sentence:
        “The actual results mixed with the personalities of the players make the team’s performance all the more remarkable and enjoyable without the artifice of extending the reach of Pythagoras to reduce the sweet ephemeral to bland numerology…”

      • James's avatar James said, on August 5, 2011 at 4:28 pm

        I prefer teams that are less than the sum of their parts, and who still win. That’s way cooler.

      • twinfan1's avatar twinfan1 said, on August 5, 2011 at 4:30 pm

        Often we think we do know something intuitively. One of the merits of statistics is to confirm or debunk that intuition. For instance, everybody be hatin’ on Ross and last night he gave pretty good reason for that. Yet he is now second only to Pablo in both OBP and OPS among active players( newbies totals only with Giants), . I think I’d wager a lotta money that Snarkk didn’t intuit that…

    • James's avatar James said, on August 5, 2011 at 4:17 pm

      “Pythagorean Projections, statistically, are surprisingly accurate. Almost all franchises average around 3.2 to about 3.5 games off of their Pythagorean projections per season. In any one particular season the projections might be off as far as about 10% (1876 Athletics) but as the sample size grows—to say, the 19,120 games the Cubs have played in their history—we find that our projections get far more accurate. Over the course of Cubs history Pythagorean projections say the should have won 47 more games than they did, that puts the Pythagorean method a little less than a quarter of a percent from dead-on accurate…”

      From
      http://baseballperspectives.blogspot.com/2006/02/pythagorean-projections-and-team.html

      • snarkk's avatar snarkk said, on August 5, 2011 at 4:28 pm

        So what?…

      • James's avatar James said, on August 5, 2011 at 4:30 pm

        You anxiety over the offense is about hwo the the remainder of the season plays out, right?

  47. zumie's avatar zumie said, on August 5, 2011 at 4:12 pm

    Funny post by the first commenter at ExtraBaggs today:
    “Bochy! AHHHH WHERE IS BELT? I can’t believe Sanchez is batting 9th! Huff in the 5 spot? Torres leading off? WTF! THIS LINEUP SUCKS.

    I just took care of the first 20 posts.”

    • twinfan1's avatar twinfan1 said, on August 5, 2011 at 4:15 pm

      Nothing about Michael Tucker?

    • Sierra Nevada's avatar Sierra Nevada said, on August 5, 2011 at 4:24 pm

      The whining does get old real fast, doesn’t it? The salient facts from my POV:

      The Giants won the World Series. They are the Champions of all of baseball.

      The Giants are almost guaranteed to be playing in meaningful games from now until the end of the season.

      As a team and to a man, they compete and comport themselves like winners until the last out is recorded.

      They have lost quite a few lately, but not because they suck, but because slumps happen, and good professional teams (yes, I do think the Dbags are good, in their limited way) have been bringing the “A” game against them. The way things are going right now, it does not look like the end of the slump is in sight.

      Last night sucked. Some great pitching and some great 3B defense by the team with the best record in the NL shut them out. It sucked.

      Madbum pitched well, and didn’t melt down after giving up the early bombs. The guy is good, and getting better.

      Last and probably least, I would rather listen to the taunts, jeers, jibes, and and ignorant drunken slobberings of idiotic phillyfans for hours on end than to listen to another second of Giantfans whining about the hitting, the lineups, the roster moves. Yes, we all know about the team’s, management’s and players’ limitations. Whining about well known weaknesses of a heavily scrutinized team is not some kinda brilliant insight.

  48. twinfan1's avatar twinfan1 said, on August 5, 2011 at 4:13 pm

    Current Phillies are hitting .194 against Dirty. Rollins is 2-20, Ibanez 0-10, Pence 1-6, Ruiz 1-13.
    Faring better are Utley .286 1 HR 3 RBI, Howard 6-17 0 HR 3 RBI and Victorino 8-19 but zero RBI. All in all, they’ve done very little damage, just 1 HR in 125 AB… just reporting the numbers, obviously it’s extremely difficult to gauge how it will go down tonight… but Im looking forard to it.

  49. snarkk's avatar snarkk said, on August 5, 2011 at 4:26 pm

    Baseball is constantly being assaulted by a rush to reduce everything to numbers. I blame the media for this, they need content, content, and more content. The Giants glorious 2010 season is not some sort of econometric model. It happened because of players, coaches and fans. The game needs more personalities, not fewer. There’s a place for analysis, sure. But, baseball is memories. And, memories are made of plays and players, not sabermetrics and Pythagoras…

  50. annapirhana's avatar mailorderwife said, on August 5, 2011 at 4:30 pm

    Anyone here read Affeldt’s recent blog entry regarding women submitting to men/men being the head of the household? Having sat in the players’ wives section, I’m not surprised that this is modus operandi. I think he broke my brain. Interested to hear male opinions. If I submitted to my husband, he’d send me to be deprogrammed.

    • Sierra Nevada's avatar Sierra Nevada said, on August 5, 2011 at 4:40 pm

      Yeah, that creepy submission stuff is, well, creepy. Of course, all of the Abramaic religions make a major fetish out of the relationship to God, so it it not surprising that they extend that fetish to other relationships. In other words, don’t be down on the Christians, Muslims, and Jews about the whole submission thing, it is the very nature of the religion. Affeldt seems like a good dude. His religion is not my cup of tea, but a good dude is a good dude.

      • twinfan1's avatar twinfan1 said, on August 5, 2011 at 4:49 pm

        It’s probably not a real good idea to delve into the players personal lives and political views. On that level, ignorance is bliss.

    • snarkk's avatar snarkk said, on August 5, 2011 at 4:46 pm

      Where’s the blog? Maybe I can program my wife to follow Affeldtism…

      • James's avatar James said, on August 5, 2011 at 4:51 pm

        Nothing like enjoying those ball player personalities.

      • annapirhana's avatar mailorderwife said, on August 5, 2011 at 5:00 pm

        http://jeremyaffeldt.wordpress.com/ – the first entry on “How to be a husband”.

        On the whole, I respect Affeldt, even if his views sometimes repulse me because of my bad history with the fundie church. However, I do feel that he tries to think for himself in offering a different view on gays, or at least in trying to get Christians to be more loving towards the LBGT community. His retweeting Rick Warren stuff, however, I can do without.

      • snarkk's avatar snarkk said, on August 5, 2011 at 5:56 pm

        There was a decade there in between the 70s and 80s where Gary Lavelle headed the “God Squad” on the Giants, a small group that wore religion on their uniform. It got a little uncomfortable sometimes, more so when the teams really sucked. But, they managed to not alienate the fans, and generally seemed to keep publication of their beliefs to a fair minimum…

  51. twinfan1's avatar twinfan1 said, on August 5, 2011 at 4:33 pm

    Yet you have never presented as person who enjoys a ballgame..

  52. twinfan1's avatar twinfan1 said, on August 5, 2011 at 4:46 pm

    Being interested in and up on statistics and enjoying the memories, the men who play the game, the plays… are not mutually exclusive. I have 50+ years of wonderful memories of the game and there’s not a fucking stat in any of it…I’ve shared much of it and resent any inference that interest in the numbers reduces my love of the game and the players. I’m certainly not one bitching 24/7, win or lose. No man or woman here or anywhere can claim to love this game more han I have…
    Well,according to the numbers only 1.7 percent can…

    • James's avatar James said, on August 5, 2011 at 4:55 pm

      Poring over the Sporting News stats goes hand in hand with watching Gary Thomasson ground out to second base.

  53. zumie's avatar zumie said, on August 5, 2011 at 4:51 pm

    “Often we think we do know something intuitively. One of the merits of statistics is to confirm or debunk that intuition.”

    That’s well said. A lot of fans, myself included, tend to fixate on the most recent failure instead of prior success. Statistics are dispassionate. And I’m not against Bill James. He’s brought some interesting ideas to the game, and has influenced how people perceive the game. Like anything, though, it can be taken to excess.

  54. zumie's avatar zumie said, on August 5, 2011 at 4:53 pm

    James, did you choose your Flap name as a tribute to Bill James?

    • James's avatar James said, on August 5, 2011 at 5:06 pm

      Zumie, yes. It’s a carry over from the Splash where I had an abbreviation for “Like Bill James Never Happened.” It still amazes me how many times I hear that sabrmetrics has “taken over.” Bill James may as well be Heidegger to the average KNBR caller.

      • zumie's avatar zumie said, on August 5, 2011 at 5:14 pm

        For me, I was one of the early folks championing Bill James, and then over the years I lost track of what he was doing, but then all of sudden it seemed he was topic A all over baseball. He had just kept plugging away with his Baseball Abstracts, and he just won a lot of people over. I still remember his explanation for how he got going on sabrmetrics. He heard Whitey Herzog say that Ozzie Smith’s defense saved two runs a game. And he just decided he’d had it with baseball people saying all kinds of things, and it always being excepted as fact at face value.

      • James's avatar James said, on August 5, 2011 at 5:23 pm

        I started reading the Abstract around 1981. It was actually the writing that hooked me. My favorite book of his: “This Time Let’s Not Eat the Bones: Bill James Without the Numbers.”

      • zumie's avatar zumie said, on August 5, 2011 at 5:35 pm

        Yeah, the most under-rated thing about Bill James, is the writing and the storytelling. He’s gotten stereotyped as a stat-person, only.
        I can still remember some of the stories. When he talked about a job he had unloading railcars, in order to make a baseball analogy, or talking about some of his ballpark experiences. He obviously loves the game, and brought some empowerment to fans. He showed a way that fans could challenge the conventional thinking of those inside the game, and remarkably his ideas were absorbed into the game. A case could be made that he eventually belongs in the sportswriter’s wing of the baseball Hall of Fame.

      • zumie's avatar zumie said, on August 5, 2011 at 5:44 pm

        Of course, a big crowning achievement was when he got hired by the Red Sox organization as an advisor, and got to be there when they won two World Series. So, he’s probably got two World Series rings, which is pretty darned cool.

  55. twinfan1's avatar twinfan1 said, on August 5, 2011 at 5:00 pm

    Well, we sure get plenty of those dispassionate numbers if the Giants’ hitting is the topic..can’t get enough of those.

  56. zumie's avatar zumie said, on August 5, 2011 at 5:03 pm

    Affeldt’s essay is pretty nuanced actually. However you feel about his beliefs, it’s obvious he’s given it a lot of thought.
    50% of all marriages in the U.S. end in divorce, and yet, the same is true of Fundamentalist Christians. 50% of those marriages end in divorce, too.
    Here’s what Affeldt said:
    http://jeremyaffeldt.wordpress.com/

    • Sierra Nevada's avatar Sierra Nevada said, on August 5, 2011 at 5:14 pm

      Not to go all stat-head on the topic, but the divorce rates are generally worse for fundies than other groups. But correlation and causation being different animals and all, I don’t hold that against them. But I will say that the Submission paradigm (submission to God, the father, the husband, the Pope, yadda yadda) is pretty fucked in the head.

  57. twinfan1's avatar twinfan1 said, on August 5, 2011 at 5:15 pm

    Snarkk has written some wonderful essays on the game, and I recall that we shared a fondness for Crash McClain. I guess we just express our passion for baseball in different ways.

  58. snarkk's avatar snarkk said, on August 5, 2011 at 5:47 pm

    I don’t claim that stats and enjoying the game are mutually exclusive. Stats have always been associated with this game more than any other, because of its nature of individual performance contributing to the whole, of the reality of the greatest hitters being statistical failures. It’s how we measure player against player, era against era, even though recent events call into question how to smooth the wow and flutter of steroids on inter-period comparisons. I’m all for progress in player evaluation, we all know Sabes and Company have been accused of being behind the curve on this. But, at some point, IMO all these numbers and stats and attendant analyses merge into noise. It shouts out the truth of what you see. The raw power and laser eye of Bonds, the deliberate measure of Beltran’s swing, the smooth hands of Vizquel, the drop of Timmy’s change-up, hell, even the klank of Freddie’s glove. Those things are enjoyed and annoyed through the seeing, the hearing. The game is the riot of colors in a summer sunset, the numbers are the gloaming…

  59. twinfan1's avatar twinfan1 said, on August 5, 2011 at 5:55 pm

    I guess I did sort of ask.

    • twinfan1's avatar twinfan1 said, on August 5, 2011 at 5:58 pm

      It was a dark and stormy night for a ballgame..

  60. twinfan1's avatar twinfan1 said, on August 5, 2011 at 6:19 pm

    I don’t imagine that many here are bitching about the advanced statistics that enabled Tim to win his Cy Young awards. But at any rate, it’s a totally individual thing as to how much or little one values the numbers., often it’s selective- OPS is important unless a guy you don’t like has a high figure…

  61. snarkk's avatar snarkk said, on August 5, 2011 at 6:20 pm

    Giving McClain a shot to play and hit a coupla HRs in the Show was one of the best things this Giants regime has ever done. His story IS baseball, in a nutshell. I see on Wiki he’s now a scout for Japanese baseball. If he’s willing and able, maybe the Giants can find a place for him in the organization. The guy is a baseball lifer, and I am admittedly envious…

  62. Freshtodef80's avatar Dr. Mantis Toboggan said, on August 5, 2011 at 6:34 pm

    Did you guys watch Chronicle Live? It was funny to see Ratto, Cohn, and Murph try to out doom each other.

  63. snarkk's avatar snarkk said, on August 5, 2011 at 6:44 pm

    Here’s a vignette I’d like to see on that Showtime thing.
    First: Zito in his shades and the latest blonde driving down Highway 1 in his ga ga sportscar, whatever it is, wind in their hair, followed by Zito in his kitchen spouting blather.
    Next: McClain, a lone gaijin, slurping noodles at a Ramen stand outside Shinjuku station, Tokyo.
    Which is more compelling?…

  64. twinfan1's avatar twinfan1 said, on August 5, 2011 at 6:49 pm

    Maybe you can talk Craig out of the McClain bat I sent him…
    I had presumed that Scott was a butcher in the field- he was actually a very good defensive player at first and third and a former college QB. Maybe it was a conditioning issue with him. Always seemed he should have gotten a better shot than he ever did.
    Funny, I remember a strike out as a pinch hitter as much as his couple home runs. Ninth inning, I think they were down one, two out, Just the classic “leave Earth” Matt Stairs scenario. Scott struck out but all three swings were classic HR hitter efforts. If there is such a thing, an exciting strike out…

  65. twinfan1's avatar twinfan1 said, on August 5, 2011 at 7:07 pm

    Anybody remember Randy Bass? Started with the Twins, hit just 9 HRs in the bigs, but 246 in the minors and another 202 in Japan.A VERY interesting career, even an episode that led to the suicide of a GM.Wiki says he’s now a Democrat in the Oklahoma legislature..

  66. wilcojoe's avatar wilcojoe said, on August 5, 2011 at 7:30 pm

    It’s funny, as opposite as they may seem at times, Twin and Snarkk are the two posters that I tend to agree with the most.

    • big flavor's avatar big flavor said, on August 5, 2011 at 7:38 pm

      that’s another POTD Wilco, I feel the exact same way……

  67. Rough Trade's avatar Rough Trade said, on August 5, 2011 at 7:34 pm

    Good news in Az. LA up 4-0.

    • Rough Trade's avatar Rough Trade said, on August 5, 2011 at 7:36 pm

      Collmenter may not make it out of the 3rd.

  68. big flavor's avatar big flavor said, on August 5, 2011 at 7:37 pm

    Hey dudes. Still working my way back to the Bay Area, that’s why I wasn’t able to change the post today. I just checked the boxscores and Jesus Guzman hit another bomb today. I think it’s funny that no one has even mentioned his name or the fact that since he joined the Pads at the MLB level he would be our most productive hitter by a mile. Good for him, he’s taken advantage of a great opportunity. Three weeks ago I picked him up on all four of my fantasy teams, mostly on a hunch and now he’s carrying a couple of my teams. He’s a little like Jack Cust (at least when Cust came into the league). Horrible defense but a guy who can flat out rake. I haven’t checked his defensive state because they mean nothing to me, but he must be holding his own at first base……
    I should be back Sunday morning but I’ll change the thread tomorrow morning……..

    • snarkk's avatar snarkk said, on August 5, 2011 at 7:44 pm

      Take your time, drive safely…

      • DJLoo's avatar DJLoo said, on August 5, 2011 at 7:52 pm

        Step on it!

    • wilcojoe's avatar wilcojoe said, on August 5, 2011 at 7:52 pm

      Guzman actually made SportCenters Top 10 for a diving stop, catch and throw to the pitcher he made last night.

  69. DJLoo's avatar DJLoo said, on August 5, 2011 at 7:37 pm

    I am positive I see Brian Sabean in Row 1 behind home plate at Fenway…

  70. unca chuck's avatar unca chuck said, on August 5, 2011 at 7:40 pm

    Name rings a bell. Did he play for the Giants for a short time?

    • DJLoo's avatar DJLoo said, on August 5, 2011 at 7:50 pm

      Nope. You’re thinking of Randy Elliot. Or Randy Kutcher. Or Kevin Bass.

    • big flavor's avatar big flavor said, on August 5, 2011 at 7:51 pm

      i remember Kevin Bass but he’s obviously talking about a different Bass…..

  71. unca chuck's avatar unca chuck said, on August 5, 2011 at 7:41 pm

    Wish Cabrera was batting 5th though.

  72. snarkk's avatar snarkk said, on August 5, 2011 at 7:41 pm

    Gotta luv the early rally and one run. Too bad Huff couldn’t avoid the usual grounder to the right. He just should not be hitting anywhere above 7th right now. Keppinger seems a keeper. I would not mind seeing him in an SF uni next year. He can play SS or 2nd, a solid pro, nothing fancy, no speed, but I’ll take a .280 hitter anytime in a middle infield spot. Who knows whether they’ll try to keep Cabrera, he’s got some years on ‘im, and Kepp is 31…

    • DJLoo's avatar DJLoo said, on August 5, 2011 at 7:46 pm

      If Ted was here: Keepinger seems a kepper.

  73. unca chuck's avatar unca chuck said, on August 5, 2011 at 7:43 pm

    And, just for fun, fuck the numbers.

    • snarkk's avatar snarkk said, on August 5, 2011 at 7:45 pm

      Apparently, the Niners are thinking that way…

    • Del Mar Dennis's avatar Del Mar Dennis said, on August 5, 2011 at 8:08 pm

      OK. Fuck number 11. Fuck number eleven. Fuck number 10+1. Fuck number 12-1.

      And fuck #8, Shane Victorino. Tie ballgame.

      And just for the helluva it. Fuck #11 once again.

  74. big flavor's avatar big flavor said, on August 5, 2011 at 7:57 pm

    fuck my ass. Gallardo is on my bench tonight,as is Maybin (one of the hottest hitters in the national league over the last month or so). The fucking shitty internet service in Sun Valley fucked me……..

    • Del Mar Dennis's avatar Del Mar Dennis said, on August 5, 2011 at 8:11 pm

      Flav, sounds like you’re in a perfect mood to start saving #11 once again.
      You and about a million others…

  75. wilcojoe's avatar wilcojoe said, on August 5, 2011 at 7:57 pm

    Kruk sure was quick to correct himself there….”He’s looking for some tail (long pause)….Shrimp tail.”


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