A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball

Some Final Penn State Thoughts

Posted in Uncategorized by Flavor on November 11, 2011

I’m trying to get amped up about a baseball story, I really am. There just isn’t much there to *amp* about. Does anyone really care where Yoenis Cespedes lands? I would love for him to become a Giant but that’s not happening. I’ll tell you one thing about that dude, he needs to tone down his post-HR behavior. He watches every single one of his bombs for like 3 seconds, or more. That will get him some bruised ribs if he tries to pull that crap in the major leagues…..

I went running very early this morning over at Stanford. I used to run the football stadium before they remodeled it. Now I run the tennis stadium–it’s not nearly as long but it’s steep, straight up. When you get to the top and look south you’re looking into the office windows of all the university coaches. It’s maybe 100 feet away, you can see them in there working away. It was before 6am and this morning there was just a single light on. I couldn’t help but wonder if Stanford’s version of Sandusky was in that office that morning, committing a similar crime. Why not? If a tragedy like that could happen at Penn State it could happen anywhere. This entire affair has ruined the way I look at college sports. Of course, I’ve always known about the dark side of college football–shady recruiting tactics, paying players, etc. But who could imagine that it was this dark, this disturbing?

Trip on this: If they could get past the morality issue on something like this and hide it for 13 years, what else have they had no problem sweeping under the rug? I think it might be time to change the “Success with Honor” football motto, don’t you?

It should be an interesting game this Saturday in Unhappy Valley. I wasn’t going to watch it, and probably will only tape it at most, but I do want to see how the players play this week. I’ve got no sympathy for them, they gave Paterno a standing ovation when he addressed them this week. I would like to see just one player stand up and quit the team over this. That might be asking too much from student athletes who are on scholarship. But a standing O for Paterno? That was *too much* too…..

There is some good that will come from all this, eventually. Parents won’t be so stupid from now on and just hand their kids over to adults without thinking first. You’re having my son sleep over in your basement? You want to take my 10 year old son to the gym to work out at 9pm? Say what???? Maybe there are kids being abused right now who hear this story and find the courage to tell someone. Maybe the sickos doing this see this story and decide to stop for fear of getting busted the same way Sandusky did. Our society isn’t doing enough to protect children from this kind of stuff. And clearly, society needs to step up and do something since the care givers aren’t doing shit to protect them from these monsters……

131 Responses

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  1. Nipper said, on November 11, 2011 at 9:17 am

    Yeah the real world sucks at times. Even in sports it keeps intruding like a horrible disease.

  2. twinfan1 said, on November 11, 2011 at 9:34 am

    Link to the right for comments on football and war..
    I’m done with the PSU scandal until more details are in, and there *will* be more, lots more. My question now, though, is “Why Bradley?”. Anyone who’s been there three decades knew of this, there are lot more people than Paterno who ignored it or did the minimum. On one hand I understand the desire to have a veteran hand right now, but every one that staff is poisoned by this… certainly no one more so than a guy who’s been there through the whole disgusting episode..

  3. St said, on November 11, 2011 at 10:10 am

    A lot more to this story…Reporters will be digging and uncovering much more.

    And why isn’t anyone mentioning perjury charges for Joe? No one can believe McQueery didn’t tell him precisely what occurred.

  4. PawlieKokonuts said, on November 11, 2011 at 10:11 am

    I’m sitting here in my kitchen, rain mixing with snow, chilled by something else. At the suggestion of a good friend, I just read the 23-page grand jury report. Unspeakable. And as others, notably Sierra Nevada in the POTD to your right, have said, there’s a larger issue. The issue of human beings protecting their own skin, preserving power, at the cost of grievous harm to others. The way I can learn something from this is to strive to be a person of conscience, on any moral issue whatsoever — war, peace, social justice, protecting children, abuse, neglect, opportunity, you name it — and to act or speak accordingly, and never let fear of position or embarrassment or threat or ridicule stop me. So, what I’m saying is this. It is easy to demonize what happened at Penn State. Rightly so. But as Magnus points out, it is surely not limited to one institution. I need to be alert to what is before me now. And I’m not talking only about sexual abuse. I suspect there are situations every day where my silence can be hurtful. One comes to mind. I was in Florida in 2005 visiting my dying brother. A retiree at the poolside table made some crack about “those Katrina victims on welfare in New Orleans.” I can’t recall the words, but it was so callous and dismissive and racist that it took my breath away. Maybe I said something. I don’t remember. Maybe I figured it was beyond ignorance. Maybe I did not want to cause a ruckus and disturb my brother. But it is silence or inaction like that that I’m talking about. Sure, as Graham Greene would note, sometimes it is complex, but we need to pay attention.

    • zumie said, on November 11, 2011 at 10:47 am

      Pawlie, one of your key words there is “dismissive.” It totally describes Paterno’s and some others’ attitude toward those kids. Those kids were probably mostly from low-income families. They were NOTHING to Joe Paterno, in his mind. His maddening lack of urgency and interest in protecting those kids is something that will be his legacy now. And he will be fighting lawsuits the rest of his life.
      I read the Grand Jury report yesterday. In addition to everything else, Sandusky had been coaching high school football the last several years! There is so much more that’s going to come out about this whole sad story.

    • snarkk said, on November 11, 2011 at 11:12 am

      There are good people out there. In the wake of Katrina, my step mother in law in Texas, took in as foster kids 3 siblings from New Orleans’ 9th ward that evacuated to Houston along with their crack head mother. The authorities rightfully took the kids away from the mother, and my MIL has fostered them since. Now the oldest has already left and is a sophomore in a Texas state college. The middle one just entered a Texas state college this fall. Both are doing well. The youngest is still at my MIL’s home, she’s a pretty tough cookie to handle, but is doing reasonably well in high school, she might make it enough to at least start in a junior college and we’ll see what happens. Had they not been fostered by my MIL, the future of these kids was pretty damn bleak. My MIL never had fostered any kids, ever. But, she saw them in a local newspaper article as three kids in deep trouble, and said “I’ve got to do something”. There is no doubt in my mind that these kids would NEVER have the opportunity before them now, were it not for that one second of humanity from my MIL that resulted in a decision that changed their lives forever, for the better. For all the bullshit that happens out there, I think there is good that can happen out there. It does happen out there, we just don’t hear about it…

      • PawlieKokonuts said, on November 11, 2011 at 11:31 am

        Thanks for this counterweight to bleakness. Yes, anonymous good occurs daily. Thanks for the reminder, and thanks for what your step-mother-in-law did/does.

      • snarkk said, on November 11, 2011 at 11:50 am

        Pawlie. You know, it is very funny when I’ve visited her and those kids or she has visited with them here. We all go out together to a store or restaurant. Here is this smallish, 60ish, well dressed white woman, me and my wife and two smallish, cute, blondish Snarkettes, walking in and sitting down with three teenage black kids, two with pretty good dreads, and laughing and yukking it up as an extended family. It is not something you see every day. I can just imagine what people are thinking, because it’s easy to notice that people are LOOKING. “What the hell is going on THERE!” What’s going on is that this woman, with no reason to do so except a big heart, has literally changed 3 lives forever, maybe even saved them…

  5. Kevin said, on November 11, 2011 at 10:22 am

    I am done with PSU, I could not even read the first victims report. Just awful

  6. Kevin said, on November 11, 2011 at 10:23 am

    Anyway it is being reported that Burrell is going to retire.

    • Nipper said, on November 11, 2011 at 10:48 am

      Another player ends his career as a Giant. How many players has it been in the last 10 years? At least he will always be remembered as a champion.

  7. PawlieKokonuts said, on November 11, 2011 at 10:32 am

    A request to Flapper Nation:
    Can anyone help me on some research? ESPN in its MLB standings toward the end of the season would show %odds of a team making the playoffs. I can’t find those now. Contacted ESPN. Abysmal response. If anyone can retrieve those [or similar data from another source], I’d be indebted. Better yet, if anyone knows what algorithm or formula they used. I’m going to keep trying, but any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks.

  8. Nipper said, on November 11, 2011 at 10:39 am

    When it comes to child abuse, it’s as common as grass. It’s been going on for centuries. One thing is for certain, adults cannot protect children no matter how hard they try. It sometimes comes forth in a common nice guy approach…..a priest, a teacher, a friend, a relative, a coach etc. So this outrage as if sports is exempt from this reality is not realistic.

  9. unca_chuck said, on November 11, 2011 at 10:48 am

    Flav, your position is well-intentioned, but naive. These kids that were preyed upon came from situations where they were in no position to HAVE intervention from a parent figure. Whether from broken homes, or low income families, they were IN the 2nd Mile club to keep them out of harm’s way, ostensibly. Which is why this is very similar to the egregious harm done by priests in the church. The people entrusted to watch out and care for these boys were the ones perpetrating the crimes against them.

    I’m sure a lot of these parents (single moms, foster parents, whatever the situation, etc.) were HAPPY to have this organization available to them. They GLADLY handed these kids over. For all the shit that has happened, this will continue to go on. Parents still send their kids to Catholic schools. They still let their kids be altar boys (and now girls). Parents will continue to send their kids to Boys and Girls Clubs. Mainly because they have little other choices. Most companies don’t provide for child care any more. Social services for the disadvantaged have gone the way of the Dodo bird. This isn’t about college football. I don’t think there will be any backlash towards college football in general, because this has NOTHING to do with it. It has to do with a sexual predator that had access to young boys. If anything, groups like 2nd Mile will get closer scrutiny from people in a position to do so. Once would hope so, anyway.

    As far as Bradley goes, I’m with you, Twin. I can’t believe they promoted someone from within the coaching staff. They should clear out everyone. It is baffling to me the McQueary is the one catching all the heat. Yes, he should have gone to the police. But he was the low man on the totem pole. Basically a student assistant. For all the heat he gets, it should be triple for Joe Pa. HE was the authority figure. As old as Joe Pa is, this just may do him in.

    • Nipper said, on November 11, 2011 at 10:54 am

      They will clear house when this season ends in a few weeks. They have no choice. They have to get a new President, AD, Football coach and new assistants and start over.

    • PawlieKokonuts said, on November 11, 2011 at 11:39 am

      It is egregiously far-fetched and ridiculous of you to single out Catholic schools, altar boys and girls, and Boys and Girls Clubs as guilty parties, or assumed perpetrators by implication. That is a reductio ad absurdum to the max. And yet you can’t wait to say this has nothing, cap letters, to do with college football. Why didn’t you single out public schools, private schools, every day care, and every organization that kids interact with, including Chuck E. Cheese? Obviously, all organizations that involve kids need child-protective policies and protections and safeguards that are clear and enforced.

      • unca_chuck said, on November 11, 2011 at 4:31 pm

        Yer missing my point, Pawlie. Boy and Girls clubs. or your average day care. for the most part have enough safeguards in place. Or just common-sense rules. I’m not singling them out in any way. It’s just and example of a place that parents take their kids and place their trust in. The churches didn’t and still don’t, although now the awareness is certainly out there that these authority figures may not be what they seem. The Catholic church catches MY ire because I was raised Catholic, and 6 priests and nuns that were my teachers from 1st through senior year at various different schoools, were arrested for various child porn or molestation charges. The church is the worst of the worst when it came to dealing with known pedophile priests that they passed the buck on. Literally hunderds of cases. If Lutheran priests were doing shit like this, I’d be dogging them. Or Bhuddists or whatever.

        My point is that there are a lot of people out there that don’t have a choice BUT to trust others with the welfare of their children. Due to whatever financial or familial circumstances they happen to be in. Yes, it happens in schools, parks, days cares, whatever. It really can happen anywhere and any time. The difference being the systematic negilgence of Penn State (or the Catholic church) to allow the perpetrators to keep at it for long periods of time. That is the gross negligence at the heart of this. The fact that both institutions had numerous chances to stop this and didn’t.

  10. James said, on November 11, 2011 at 10:53 am

    First Fred Lewis, then Dirty, now Pat the Bat . . . . for whom will my heart bleed next year? Belt is the obvious candidate. Here’s another scenario: they sign Beltran, he hits 250, gets ragged on by everyone, but puts up a higher OBP and OPS than, say, Melky.

    Paterno even received his classical education at a time when cultural relativism was a mere gleam in 70’s academia’s decadent eye.

    • twinfan1 said, on November 11, 2011 at 11:14 am

      Brandon bailed on the good ole “good AB” not far into his tenure last year.It does seem as if his power numbers go feet up when he’s more selective. In the AFL, his OBP is back up over .400 while he has 1 HR and 7 RBI in 70 AB.

  11. twinfan1 said, on November 11, 2011 at 11:01 am

    Craig points up the dangers of turning your child over to an adult for fear of molestation. It shouldn’t be forgotten, however, how many good people are smeared by association when terrible things like this happen. And children in need of help may not get it . It’s hard not to wonder what an adult male is *really* volunteering for when he donates his time to children in need of help. This so distressing on so many levels…

    • unca_chuck said, on November 11, 2011 at 11:25 am

      Yeah, the thing is, most sane people would at least question some of the things that go on around these sleepovers and such. Look at Michael Jackson. Parents willingly let their young kids sleep over at Never Never Land. Why? I have no frigging idea. No matter who you are or what you believe, that would raise some giant red flags in my way of thinking.

      • zumie said, on November 11, 2011 at 11:28 am

        Those kids were in similar situations to the ones you posted about at 10:48.

      • unca_chuck said, on November 11, 2011 at 4:33 pm

        The difference being, 2nd Mile is supposed to be a place where kids are safe. Leaving your kids with some guy with a magic kingdom for a house, a monkey for a pet, and a hyperbaric chamber for a bed? Still and all, I’d pass.

  12. unca_chuck said, on November 11, 2011 at 11:20 am

    This stuff is so vile, no one wants to believe it. No one WANTS to think that a next door neighbor type guy who you’ve known for 30 years can be this purely evil. Whatever all this means, it puts forth the prevailing theory that people in the end trust each other. NO ONE expects a guy like Sandusky, the typical next-door-neighbor type, to be a sexual predator of the most vile nature.

    In DC, we went to the holocaust memorial, and it is filled with accounts of how Hitler systematically gained power and put forth his ideas about race and such, but no one really thought he’d get enough power to really act on his crazy-ass schemes about race, purity, and what he would or wouldn’t do in power. As late as 1937, he was still seen as a crackpot by a lot of the German population, and the world in general. Man of the year awards notwithstanding. Jews were trying to leave Germany in record numbers, but no one would let them gain entrance. Least of all the United States. The process to immigrate to America was convoluted at best, and 250,000 Jews did just that. But untold many more were denied the ability to move to the US. Many other countries deniad access to Jews as well. By the time the war started cranking up, Germany closed its borders and the rest is history.

    The point being, despite all Hitler’s words of racial inequality and Aryan supremacy, no one really thought he would act upon these crackpot ideas in the systematic and heinous way he did.

    This relates to Sandusky, because for all intents and purposes, he was a stand-up guys who was helping disadvantaged kids. He’s lived his life in a normal way that his perversions were not obviously apparent.

  13. zumie said, on November 11, 2011 at 11:25 am

    Something that could cheer folks up today a bit about college sports is the basketball game on the aircraft carrier. I’m looking forward to seeing that. Should be fun. It starts at 4:00 Pacific Time, on ESPN.

    • twinfan1 said, on November 11, 2011 at 11:28 am

      A very good friend of mine from my SF days was a lovely young woman whose father was named Carl Vinson…

  14. St said, on November 11, 2011 at 11:26 am

    I think it relates more to how many people stood by and did nothing and how many profited.

    Twinfan makes a good point. Heightened awareness can also bring hysteria, paranoia and many wrongfully accused.

    • zumie said, on November 11, 2011 at 11:34 am

      SFGate had a good article a few days ago about how much money the Penn St. football team brings into the university, and to that part of Pennsylvania on game days. Many, many millions of dollars are involved.

  15. Del Mar Dennis said, on November 11, 2011 at 11:44 am

    A little baseball news…Papelbon just signed with the Phillies.
    I can’t wait for that Pap-Melky showdown in the B9. I’d send up NO Whitey to PH.

    • PawlieKokonuts said, on November 11, 2011 at 12:29 pm

      I saw that Phillies were leaning that way but no deal yet. Where did you see he signed?

  16. twinfan1 said, on November 11, 2011 at 11:51 am

    Link to the right to comment on Harbaugh’s declaration that Alex is an elite QB- hate speech, threats, smears, will be promptly deleted.

    • Nipper said, on November 11, 2011 at 12:41 pm

      ESPN thinks Harbaugh is nuts or crazy like a fox. Everyone outside the Niners agrees Alex is not carrying this team. No way.

    • shaman138 said, on November 11, 2011 at 1:15 pm

      What about mocking, derisive laughter?

  17. snarkk said, on November 11, 2011 at 12:03 pm

    I think it’s clear they had to keep Paterno’s staff in place to finish out the season. If they fired the entire football staff with Paterno, they couldn’t play the last few games. I don’t think for a second that Bradley, who has been there for 30+ years, knows nothing about the cover-up. I would argue they should shut the program down today and forfeit the remainder of the season, but that’s probably impossible in the Stepford world of Happy Valley. McQueary, the witness of the shower abomination, s being kept on for one reason — the local authorities, the state AG, etc., have weighed in to keep him on. He needs to be “kept”, at least for now, because he is the star witness in future criminal proceedings. Better he have a reason to continue cooperation with the authorities. If he were to be fired and/or somehow become a target of criminal charges, his testimony would be more difficult, if not impossible, to obtain. Also, I don’t know how Sandusky continues roaming out on bail. Not that he shouldn’t get bail. I mean protective custody. There are people out there who would not cry to see him commit “suicide” — PSU zealots as well as possibly very powerful people that he can finger as being part of the cover-up or of this rumored pimping ring. What’s in his head right now (or maybe he’s kept blackmail records to protect himself) is very valuable information. The local DA who knew about all this went missing in 2005, never found his body, but his laptop found with its disk drive destroyed. Remember Sean Hoare, the reporter in London this summer that was the key witness in the Murdoch/government wiretap scandal? He conveniently ended up dead one July morning in his London flat. Within hours, the cops proclaimed that his death was unexplained, but NOT suspicious. How did they know that, before an autopsy? Google him now, there still is no report on his cause of death. Sandusky better have a well paid security detail…

  18. Flavor said, on November 11, 2011 at 12:04 pm

    My point of the thread was, people need to open their eyes more. Use common sense. If something smells funny to you, it’s because it probably is. And my hope is that from this their are current victims of child molestation who find the courage to come forward. Say something. They have to be watching this unfold and realize it’s not their fault and that if they talk to someone it can be stopped.

  19. Flavor said, on November 11, 2011 at 12:05 pm

    Baseball comment: The Phillies signed Pap? Good, he’s overrated and has been on a slide for a couple of years now. You know, if the Phillies keep doling out all this dough they just might find there not much left in the kitty for J-Roll. And how awesome would it be if he fell to us somehow?????

    • snarkk said, on November 11, 2011 at 12:14 pm

      The Phills won it all a coupla years ago, but I think they are not going to get back to the WS for a while. They spend a lot, get good players like the Yanks of the NL, but when it comes to the playoffs, they clutch it up. Their idiot fans put way, way too much pressure on them with the heavy expectations, and they get sphincteritis. It’s not coincidental that they won in 2008 with Burrell — he was nails in the NLDS and NLCS. He didn’t do a lot in that WS on the field, but he probably kept ’em loose, yet focused…

  20. Flavor said, on November 11, 2011 at 12:08 pm

    Snarkk–you’re a lawyer–how does upcoming civil suits affect Penn State’s next moves? I would think they would look a lot better to a jury if they shut the program down at the end of the season. Otherwise, they are just going to pay through the nose on this, right?
    What recruits would they be able to get in the next 5 years anyway? That 50 mil they’re making a year is gonna take a huge hit for the next 5-10 years with all the transfers we’ll see after this year and all the blue-chippers going to other schools instead of Pedophile State…….

    • unca_chuck said, on November 11, 2011 at 12:22 pm

      Like you said earlier Flav, how do you have recruits tour the campus, the weight rooms, and the showers?

      Walking through there would be too sickening to even contemplate.

  21. unca_chuck said, on November 11, 2011 at 12:20 pm

    Frankly, I’m surprised they are playing this game, let alone the rest of the string.

    The NCAA’s silence regarding this speaks volumes as to how they look to deal with it.

    Protect the program. Let the games go on.

    • Nipper said, on November 11, 2011 at 12:37 pm

      Green is a powerful motivator.

    • Kevin said, on November 11, 2011 at 12:46 pm

      Okay, why punish the students for the coaches transgressions?

      • unca_chuck said, on November 11, 2011 at 1:09 pm

        Sorry, but the transgressions far outweigh the fallout to the current team and students.

        If I was a parent of one of these molested kids, I’d be fairly horrified that the program rolls on.

      • twinfan1 said, on November 11, 2011 at 1:18 pm

        Shutting the program down is a knee jerk reaction that would serve no purpose except to punish innocent people. The trangressions are addressed by investigating and punishing the guilty.

      • unca_chuck said, on November 11, 2011 at 2:00 pm

        Who’s innocent, Mike? No one in the administration is innocent. No one in the athletic department is innocent. 13 years of turning a blind eye to the molestation of young boys should be felt in some way by the institution of Penn State. For the football program to still generate money for the school is a bit sickening to me. Yeah, they’ll get hurt big-time in trying to recruit players, but still, there will be enough kids to fill the spots. Maybe not the blue-chippers, but boo hoo. Isn’t that a shame?

        They may slip out of the top 25 for a year or 3, but as far as the NCAA goes, it’ll be cha-ching. Let ’em play.

        Bully for them for keeping it real.

  22. St said, on November 11, 2011 at 12:40 pm

    Before JVP was fired, demand for tickets sent prices soaring.

  23. Kevin said, on November 11, 2011 at 12:44 pm

    Yes Pen football brings in the second most money, Texas is #1. Last year after all expenses Pen football brought in $53 mil. Not exactly chump change, they will probably lose most if not all of that revenue

  24. unca_chuck said, on November 11, 2011 at 1:16 pm

    Who was the guy at USF? Quentin Dailey? After his sexual assault charges came to light, they cancelled their basketball program for 5 years. That might not have been the only problem, but it played a big part in a Christian (Jesuit) school in cutting the basketball program.

  25. twinfan1 said, on November 11, 2011 at 1:24 pm

    To say that may not have been the only problem is the understaement of the century..

  26. twinfan1 said, on November 11, 2011 at 1:29 pm

    It can be read about in more detail if one cared to be informed about the USF situation, but here’s a quick recap from Wiki.Dailey was the proverbial “last straw”
    “The Dons’ prominence in the 1970s came at a price, however. The NCAA slapped the Dons with probation two times in the late 1970s. Galliard was forced out as coach due to the first investigation, and an in-house inquiry after the second resulted in Belluomini’s ouster. It was also well-known that basketball players got special treatment; many of them were marginal students at best, and at least one instance where a player threatened another student was swept under the rug by school officials.[12] It was also common for “tutors” to take tests and write papers for players.[13]

    The situation finally came to a head in December 1981, when All-American guard Quintin Dailey assaulted a female student. During the subsequent investigation, Dailey admitted taking a no-show job at a business owned by a prominent non-sports USF donor. The donor had also paid Dailey $5,000 since 1980. Combined with other revelations, school president Rev. John LoSchiavo announced on July 26 that he was shutting down the basketball program–the first time a school had shut down a major sport under such circumstances. The move was widely applauded by several members of the coaching fraternity [12], as the Dailey matter revealed a program that was, in the words of San Francisco Chronicle sportswriter Glenn Dickey, “totally out of control.”[13]

    • unca_chuck said, on November 11, 2011 at 1:52 pm

      You mean Dickey got something right?

      • Nipper said, on November 11, 2011 at 2:33 pm

        Dickey is a fine writer. I heard he’s charging for his web site wisdom.

  27. unca_chuck said, on November 11, 2011 at 1:52 pm

    OK, it was the last straw . . .

  28. twinfan1 said, on November 11, 2011 at 1:58 pm

    There will now be federal involvement and if their investigation shows that shutting the program down is warranted, it will happen. This is not even counting the civil rights suits that are bound to follow. Calling for a shut down to occur before ANY due process has begun is wrong .

    • Nipper said, on November 11, 2011 at 2:32 pm

      Is that still allowed?

  29. twinfan1 said, on November 11, 2011 at 2:01 pm

    I will bow out of this conversation before I’m accused of condoning what happened.

  30. unca_chuck said, on November 11, 2011 at 2:04 pm

    I think there’s plenty of reason to cancel the rest of the season, but it won’t happen. Mainly because most of this current coaching staff was in place while all this shit was going on.

    By next football season, there will be enough that has come to light to figure out what to do.

    If some of the more disgusting rumors come to light, it could get real ugly.

    • Nipper said, on November 11, 2011 at 2:29 pm

      Sound off a few BLEEPS, Chuck!

  31. twinfan1 said, on November 11, 2011 at 2:50 pm

    Jenkins, in pushing for Beltran, agrees witth Craig and many others about Crawford:
    “Let’s just hope the Giants are serious when they list Brandon Crawford as their starting shortstop (assuming Reyes and Jimmy Rollins are out of the picture). They made a huge mistake last year, benching Crawford’s exceptional defense, and they can’t afford to botch those big plays again. Give this lineup just one more boost, and Crawford fits in perfectly.”

  32. snarkk said, on November 11, 2011 at 3:18 pm

    BF, I have a response to your questions about civil suits and a possible shutdown of the PSU program . Too long for a post here. I will send to you via e-mail, and if you want, you can post it maybe as one of the sidebar topics in case individual Flappers have the interest and patience to read it…

    • Big flavor said, on November 11, 2011 at 3:30 pm

      Thanks, looking forward to reading it. My point in asking about the value to PSU I’m shutting down the program was only in regards to how that would make them look to a jury. I’m assuming it would benefit them. “look how serious we took this, we shut the program down.”

      • Big flavor said, on November 11, 2011 at 3:31 pm

        “In” not “I’m”

      • snarkk said, on November 11, 2011 at 3:52 pm

        My short response is I believe a shutdown would have little to no impact on a jury verdict, or size of award…

      • xootsuit said, on November 11, 2011 at 7:51 pm

        Usually reaction to disaster by shutting something down, or fixing the defective turbine engines, etc., is bad news for the fixer. It’s an admission that something was really wrong and needed fixing (and, implicitly, should have been fixed before the disaster). So the rules of evidence prohibit much use of such evidence to prove liability. (Why? You don’t want to give the potential fixers any incentive not to make things better, or right.) So the juries will know about Penn State’s reaction to the disaster via the news, as we all know about it. But during the trials what Penn State did in response to the publicity about the disaster, may not even be mentioned. The juries probably will focus on the real crimes and, as they’re called, personal injuries.

  33. twinfan1 said, on November 11, 2011 at 4:08 pm

    I’ve reprinted one of the arguments to shut down the program. Link to the right.

  34. snarkk said, on November 11, 2011 at 4:31 pm

    I heard on KNBR that earlier this afternoon, PSU has now put McQueary on administrative leave…

  35. Flavor said, on November 11, 2011 at 4:45 pm

    I caught a bit of Radnich and the Racist yesterday. They seemed to believe that we should give some slack to McQueary since he was nothin’ but a poor grad student and can’t be faulted for not being more assertive in his response. Fuck that. First of all, as a caller pointed out, McQueary wasn’t some normal grad student. He was a former QB of the team. And what about his job with the fucking team? Maybe it wasn’t a payoff for not going to the police. But it sure makes him look like one of the WORST in this whole thing. This fucking guy SAW with his own 2 eyes what that dipshit was doing to that kid. Then he saw him bring other kids on that campus for years after it happened. No biggie to McQueary I guess. He had the job he wanted, the welfare of those defenseless kids was not a priority for him……..

  36. Flavor said, on November 11, 2011 at 4:47 pm

    by the way Snarkk, if you sent me an email, I didn’t receive it…….

    • snarkk said, on November 11, 2011 at 6:05 pm


      • Big flavor said, on November 11, 2011 at 6:53 pm

        Received. Thanks.

  37. zumie said, on November 11, 2011 at 5:16 pm

    Good game so far on the aircraft carrier.

    • unca_chuck said, on November 11, 2011 at 5:23 pm

      St Mary’s is playing tonight, right? Is thsi the college basketball kickoff or something?

      • zumie said, on November 11, 2011 at 5:43 pm

        Some games have already been going on.
        The ESPN marathon starts on Nov. 15th. Dave Flemming will be calling the St. Mary’s game.

        “Fourth Annual College Hoops Tip-Off Marathon: 21 Games in 25 Hours Highlighted by Inaugural Champions Classic Doubleheader

        For the fourth straight year, ESPN will celebrate the start of the college basketball season with a marathon of games and extensive coverage across multiple platforms. The College Hoops Tip-Off Marathon Presented by Disney Parks on Tuesday, Nov. 15, will include 21 live contests – 19 men’s and two women’s — in 25 hours across ESPN, ESPN2, ESPNU and ESPN3.

        The schedule will tip-off at 12 a.m. ET with Washington State at No. 23 Gonzaga on ESPN and ESPN3 and conclude with a DICK’s Sporting Goods NIT Season Tip-Off game from Stanford at 11 p.m. on ESPNU. Marathon highlights:

        * Eleven games on ESPN, highlighted by No. 6 Duke vs. Michigan State at 7 p.m. and No. 2 Kentucky vs. No. 13 Kansas at 9 p.m. in the inaugural State Farm Champions Classic doubleheader from Madison Square Garden in New York.
        * A special one-hour edition of ESPN’s College GameDay Driven by State Farm at 6 p.m., originating from Madison Square Garden for the Champions Classic, that includes pre-game, half-time, between-game and post-game reports and analysis.
        * Four of the top nine ranked women’s programs in back-to-back games: No. 9 Louisville at defending National Champion No. 6 Texas A&M at 4 p.m. on ESPNU and No. 7 Miami at No. 3 Tennessee at 6 p.m. on ESPN2 and ESPN3.
        * Seven of the top 10 teams – and 11 ranked programs overall – in the men’s ESPN/USA Today Coaches poll: No. 2 Kentucky, No. 3 Ohio State, No. 5 Syracuse, No. 6 Duke, No. 7 Vanderbilt, No. 9 Memphis, No. 10 Florida, No. 12 Baylor, No. 13 Kansas, No. 23 Gonzaga and No. 24 California.
        * An ESPN2 prime time showdown between top 10 teams pitting No. 10 Florida at No. 3 Ohio State at 8 p.m.
        * Analyst Doug Gottlieb and ESPN.com reporter Andy Katz calling Drexel at Rider on ESPN at 6 a.m. and appearing live at halftime on Mike & Mike in the Morning on ESPN Radio and ESPN2 to preview the day’s action.
        * An afternoon doubleheader of ranked teams on ESPN and ESPN3: No. 9 Memphis hosting Belmont in an EA Sports Maui Invitational matchup from Memphis at noon followed by No. 12 Baylor against San Diego State at 2 p.m.
        * Representation of 21 conferences: ACC, Atlantic Sun, Atlantic 10, BIG EAST, Big Ten, Big 12, Conference USA, Colonial, Metro Atlantic Athletic, Mid-American, Missouri Valley, Mountain West, Ohio Valley, Pac-12, SEC, Southern, Southwestern Athletic, Sun Belt, Western Athletic and West Coast. Either the Ivy League or America East will be added, dependent on if Syracuse plays Brown or Albany, respectively.
        * Commentator Dave Flemming and analyst Sean Farnham working two games: Northern Iowa at Saint Mary’s on ESPN and ESPN3 at 2 a.m. and a Progressive CBE Classic matchup, Austin Peay at No. 24 California, at 10 p.m. on ESPN2 and ESPN3.”

  38. twinfan1 said, on November 11, 2011 at 5:35 pm

    I’m watching the games from the weekend the Giants *really* won the NL West. Dodgers were in town. On Friday July 30, Huff had a big night, Giants jumped out to a 6-2 lead but with Wilson hurting the pen nearly blew it in the 9th, finally winning 6-5 after using 4 relievers in the inning. On Saturday, they won 2-1 behind Burrell’s blast off of Broxton in the 8th and flawless relief from Mota, with Wilson still out. On Sunday, Cain outduelled Kershaw, Wilson returned for the save, and with little fanfare or expectation, the man as responsible as any for their late run and WS win made his Giants’ debut: Javier Lopez…behind the game winning hit from who else: WS MVP Edgar Renteria..

  39. Flavor said, on November 11, 2011 at 5:41 pm

    I was at that Burrell/Broxton bomb game. I said at the time, and I still would say, that was the loudest I’ve ever heard the crowd at ATT…..

  40. stixwiz said, on November 11, 2011 at 5:51 pm

    Baseball talk. Jered McDonald on JaysJottings.com thinks his team should make a run at getting Matt Cain. He does list some very positive developments The Horse made this past season and that makes for interesting reading. His perspective on such a move being possible stems from the notion that Matt will be soon looking at a $15M payoff as per his contract and that he will be a F.A. after next season. He is of the opinion that the Giants will be too cheap to be able to re-sign him along with Lincecum.

    Where this guy goes off the rails is where he lists several Jays players and prospects who might make fits for SF. No mention of a proven CFer or a quality SS, but he addresses a presumed lack on the part of the Giants of much upper minors talent in starting pitching. What this whole exercise does bring out is the fact that the team will have some huge decisions to make in the not too distant future as to how willing the crowd of multi-millionaire owners may be in coming off as something more than a poor-mouthing second-tier ownership group. Giants are one of the richest franchises out there right now and can easily maintain within the top ten teams for player salaries.

    Though there may be some concern about possible free agency for Cain staring SF in the face, chances are better than 50-50 that barring 2010ish injuries, the team should win the West and once again be extremely competitive in the Post-Season. To make that happen, moving Cainer would absolutely be a step in the wrong direction. Overwhelming offers might get a fair hearing, but anything else concerning Matt the Horse might inspire lynch-mob justice down by McCovey Cove.

  41. twinfan1 said, on November 11, 2011 at 6:02 pm

    I remember you talking about that- and it was extraordinary because nothing had really led up to it, no big rally, . In fact, I seem to recall it was pretty quiet and then all hell broke loose. Fox had the game so maybe their coverage affected that- they didn’t seem to have much audio on the crowd.

    • Big flavor said, on November 11, 2011 at 6:59 pm

      I was on the rail next to the dodgers bullpen, the fans were giving it to bro ton pretty good (but respectful). To me, he looked like he couldn’t get loose, he kept tugging and dangling his shoulder– my buddy even commented that he looked hurt and his velocity was low that gm. The loudness hit full pitch as soon as the ball went out and it was sustained for what seemed like at least 45 seconds afterwards. Everyone was screaming, high fiving and hugging strangers. Well, not me, I stuck to the maniacal screaming and high fiving.
      The tv rarely captures the sounds of the crowd, in my opinion.

  42. zumie said, on November 11, 2011 at 6:09 pm

    Jonathan sounding a little whiny here. The Giants didn’t “want” to trade him since 2006. If he believes that, well, that says a lot, I guess.

    “I saw it coming,” Sanchez said during a visit to his new baseball home Thursday, as reported by the Kansas City Star. “It’s been that way since I got to the big leagues in 2006 that they wanted to trade me. Nothing came out but, every year, it was the same thing.

    “It was time for me to go to a different place and another team. My name kept coming up every trading deadline. It never happened. It did now.”

    Otherwise, Sanchez said he was happy in San Francisco.

    “They showed me everything about how to play baseball in the major leagues,” he said. “I grew up from there, but now I’m going to bring everything I have (to Kansas City) to make this team better.”

    • zumie said, on November 11, 2011 at 6:11 pm

      The first paragraph is me. The rest of it is from an SFGate article.

    • twinfan1 said, on November 11, 2011 at 6:20 pm

      He says they *did* want to trade him, not didn’t. It’s totally true that every year he was the subject of serious trade rumors. Don’t see how that could be denied. And the guy *can* read, he obviously knew of the talk.
      Anyway, I’m glad he’s where I can root for him without reservation.

      • twinfan1 said, on November 11, 2011 at 6:34 pm

        And if his ankle didn’t feel right, he was correct not to pitch again last year. Nen is a hero for wrecking his arm to pitch through injury in 2002. All he did was blow game 6 and end his career….good move.

      • zumie said, on November 11, 2011 at 6:47 pm

        My point is that, by using the word “want,” he’s making it sound like the Giants have never wanted to keep him, only that they “had” to keep him year after year. And I don’t think that’s a fair assessment of the Giants over those years.

      • zumie said, on November 11, 2011 at 6:56 pm

        I just re-read my original post. I didn’t make myself very clear. I meant to say that I believe the Giants didn’t “want” to trade him all those years. And, if he believes they did, he’s wrong, IMO.

      • twinfan1 said, on November 11, 2011 at 6:56 pm

        Well, he’s allowed to have his feelings about how things were, he probably knows more about it than we do. The first salvo in any whine fest came from the Giants, who brought up the ankle thing without purpose. He was already traded.

      • zumie said, on November 11, 2011 at 7:03 pm

        It’s kind of like he’s implying that if the Giants had shown him more love, he would have pitched better. A little excuse-making. Or maybe I’m reading too much into it.

      • twinfan1 said, on November 11, 2011 at 7:12 pm


  43. zumie said, on November 11, 2011 at 6:19 pm

    One of the many many things I like about Obama is that he pronounces the names of countries correctly. He pronounces Iraq as “E-rock.” And not the Sarah Palin innaccurate way: “I-rak.” Seriously, how hard is to pronounce a country’s name correctly, especially one that we invaded and have occupied for TEN years?
    But there’s Herman Cain the other day, talking about how he doesn’t bother to learn anything about the “small and insignificant countries” like “Uz-beky-beky-beky-stan-stan.”

    • snarkk said, on November 11, 2011 at 7:03 pm

      When I was a kid, it was thought that it was good, it was desirable and proper, to have smart people in charge of things, including government, at whatever level they might be. That, despite that there has always been a tint of skepticism in some parts of this country, of people with too much “book larnin’ ” as devious, or somehow not worthy of trust. Now, it seems fairly large segments of our society want patently dumb, unworldly people as leaders, as if the dumber they are, the more trustworthy or truthful. Now, the rest of the world is getting smarter by the day, yet we’re promoting dumbasses to as the best qualified to be our leaders…

      • zumie said, on November 11, 2011 at 7:08 pm

        The scary thing is that it seems the U.S. is going to fool around and elect to the presidency someday someone like Sarah Palin, Herman Cain, or Rick Perry. Our nation barely survived the Bush, Jr. years, and those three are dumber than Bush, if that’s possible.

    • Big flavor said, on November 11, 2011 at 7:04 pm

      Totally agree, its a pet peeve of mine, too. The easiest way to look ignorant is to mispronounce something. Or, in Perry’s case, not know the agencies that make up the government. Baha.

  44. twinfan1 said, on November 11, 2011 at 7:06 pm

    Well, regardless of the economy and the war, about all Obama will need to do to get reelected is just let the opposition keep talking..

    • zumie said, on November 11, 2011 at 7:13 pm

      In their race to out “Right Wing” each other, they’ve reduced the GOP talking points to some kind of complete blathering nonsense.

  45. zumie said, on November 11, 2011 at 7:17 pm

    Pretty cool, ESPN is showing the post-game concert on the aircraft carrier. Just wish it was a better band than Five For Fighting….
    Kudos to Michigan St. coach Tom Izzo for pursuing the idea of playing a game on an aircraft carrier on Veteran’s Day, and Roy Williams for being willing to bring his team.

  46. Del Mar Dennis said, on November 11, 2011 at 7:21 pm

    Good news: Wilson Ramos was found safe and sound. I’m sure you bleeding hearts will credit his return to Obama.

    • zumie said, on November 11, 2011 at 7:24 pm

      Who’s your pick for the presidency in 2012, Dennis? It’s always easy to play offense; let’s see you play some defense.

      • zumie said, on November 11, 2011 at 7:29 pm


    • twinfan1 said, on November 11, 2011 at 7:30 pm

      Well, it *was* a shrewd move- Obama told them we get Ramos or they get Perry, too.

      • Del Mar Dennis said, on November 11, 2011 at 7:37 pm

        I’d get used to saying President Romney if I were you.

        But don’t discount Newt. He could pull a Silky Sullivan and win this from behind.
        The former Speaker of the House is gaining ground as I speak…

    • PawlieKokonuts said, on November 11, 2011 at 7:47 pm

      Was “NUKE VENEZUELA AND CUBA” your option? I love “bleeding hearts,” What’s the alternative? Dry pumps?

  47. twinfan1 said, on November 11, 2011 at 7:42 pm

    Romney? You’d hate that DT Denny, he’s a commie as far as your kind considers it. I’d imagine you’d be on the Secret Service list again.

    • Del Mar Dennis said, on November 11, 2011 at 8:07 pm

      Who said anything about supporting Mitt? I was just giving the probabilities.
      And just what do you mean with “your kind?”

      Many would be upset and offended if I said “you people.”
      But I don’t give a shit. I’d then tell those people to quit their crying and STFU.

  48. twinfan1 said, on November 11, 2011 at 7:46 pm

    Ahh, Joe’s bringing Broxton in now. The Bat awaits. Craig is savoring his beer as the anticipation grows…

    • Flavor said, on November 11, 2011 at 8:06 pm

      that happened in the 8th inning, right? Can’t remember, I think it was the 8th. If so, the beer was gone and the cup at my feet…….

      • twinfan1 said, on November 11, 2011 at 8:14 pm

        8th inning, two outs, Buster was HBP, and Broxton came in. I’m about to watch Game 3 of the series..

  49. Del Mar Dennis said, on November 11, 2011 at 7:48 pm

    Odds for 2012 Presidential Election:

    Obama — Even money
    Romney — 2/1
    Newt — 10/1
    Cain — 18/1
    Perry — 30/1

    Gingrich is adding staff in key states, opening new offices this week and raising more money than he has in months. 10/1 is looking pretty juicy right about now.

    • twinfan1 said, on November 11, 2011 at 7:59 pm

      DT Denny is a little disgruntled, his party hasn’t had a candidate since Lincoln Rockwell…

  50. PawlieKokonuts said, on November 11, 2011 at 7:50 pm

    Marlins giving lots of “house” tours. Reyes. Pujols. I do not want those fecks winning their third WS.

    • snarkk said, on November 11, 2011 at 9:18 pm

      How can they pay those guys? Nobody goes to games down there. Is it a chicken/egg thing with the new stadium, i.e., “if we sign these guys, they (fans) will come?”…

  51. zumie said, on November 11, 2011 at 7:53 pm

    Five For Fighting has left the stage and has been replaced by one of those awful commercial country bands that play on commercial country radio stations. Well, I guess Steve Earle wasn’t going to get invited. (grin)

  52. zumie said, on November 11, 2011 at 8:09 pm

    Dennis, who do YOU want to win the presidency in 2012?

    • Del Mar Dennis said, on November 11, 2011 at 8:36 pm

      That’s a silly question. Me of course. Wouldn’t YOU want to be president?

      In all seriousness, a year ago I would have said Sarah just for shits and giggles and the enormous uproar it would have caused with “you people.” But since she declined to run, and since my favorite candidate since Reagan, our former HUD Secretary Jack Kemp passed away three years ago, I really don’t have a strong preference at the moment.

      But if I had to give you a name from the five most likely candidates at this very moment, I’d say Newt.

      • zumie said, on November 11, 2011 at 8:53 pm


      • snarkk said, on November 11, 2011 at 9:25 pm

        Newt is actually the smartest guy of all the GOP circus clowns. That, and the fact he has a history of ditching wives, means he has no shot to be nominated. Anyway, I thought a coupla months ago that all his campaign workers quit except his wife and dog when instead of attending to a couple of speeches, he stopped into Tiffany’s to grab a bauble or two on the way to a sailing vacation to the Greek Isles…

  53. Del Mar Dennis said, on November 11, 2011 at 8:47 pm

    Hey! I was comment 111 on 11/11/11. Do I win a prize? Yeah, the 11 horse (Rags for Ben) in the 5th at Hollywood is coming up. I shoulda bet Chuck’s horse — SKIPPY DUE ($10.00) just won the 4th.

    I hate being called Skippy by Chuck. TF just called me a Nazi in so many words.
    I like that better than Skippy.

  54. twinfan1 said, on November 11, 2011 at 8:56 pm

    We all know Newt is also far too moderate for you, Denny. And Kemp had some, uh, preferences ,that would have precluded him having any chance. You’re really a man without a candidate, just bet the chalk.

  55. twinfan1 said, on November 11, 2011 at 8:57 pm

    It gets worse, he calls me Skippy, too

  56. ewisco said, on November 11, 2011 at 9:00 pm

    you all are completely nuts. I have a 8:55 tomorrow with college gameday. Go Indians!

    good night gentlemen (?)

  57. TedSpe said, on November 11, 2011 at 9:02 pm

    “You people”, dennis?

    • twinfan1 said, on November 11, 2011 at 9:18 pm

      I said “your kind” to Denny. It’s payback.

  58. snarkk said, on November 11, 2011 at 9:31 pm

    Newt and Perry have the best hair of the GOP circus. Newt has more brains in his left testicle, but the personal charisma of a rotten pickle…

  59. TedSpe said, on November 11, 2011 at 9:35 pm

    One last thing on Penn State and especially about McQueary and his accountability.
    Look. We’ve all said if we had seen what he had seen, we would have a) found a weapon and smacked that Sundusky bastard or b) At the very least have screamed “WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON??!!” But a co-worker brought up an interesting hypothetical anology yesterday and it gave me pause. He said say you were working at a place 2 maybe 3 years. You’ve had lunch with a couple folks, maybe went out for drinks with a co-worker or two. One day, you’re working late and have to get a file or something. You go upstairs, hear a strange noise, kinda peak in the direction of this noise and you see someone performing an act on a minor, or it seems to be a minor, and you realize the person is someone you really, really thought you knew. Hell, you weren’t best buds but you at least socialized on occasion.
    You had no idea you were dealing with such a monster. The first reaction, unless you’re a sociopath, very well may be shock. Disbelief. Maybe you wouldn’t know what to do. And you just ran away out of confusion and, again, disbelief.
    Now, here’s where it gets different.
    Perhaps I would have called my father first and then reported it to “management” the next day. And maybe that’s all I would have done. For a day or two.
    And, again, this is the difference and where I think McQueary really fucked up. If I hadn’t seen anything
    done to this fucking pedophile after a day or two, oh fucking YEAH!!! I would have taken it further.
    And that’s the shame on McQueary. Not his initial reactions. But his lack of followup.
    I don’t care how low you are on the totem pole or how much you admire some of your co-workers or the excuse of how young he was at the time…it was the fact that he didn’t follow up…THAT’S why he’s also one of the criminals.

    • snarkk said, on November 11, 2011 at 9:55 pm

      Good points. I think we have to remember though that in 2002, even though Sandusky was no longer on the football staff and “retired”, McQueary knew that next to Paterno himself, Sandusky was the most revered guy in the entire program, and Paterno’s best buddy. So, he was really more than just a co-worker. He was something like the ex-CFO of the program, still the CEO’s best bud. I assume that is the thing that gave McQueary, a lowly grad assistant at the time, pause when he turned the corner to the showers and suddenly saw that vile act going on. That’s assuming McQueary had no previous knowledge of Sandusky’s pedophilia nor the details of his 1999 “retirement” to cloud his judgment and delay his actions. If Sandusky were a stranger, I would like to think McQueary would have tried to stop it then and there and/or called the cops…

      • snarkk said, on November 11, 2011 at 10:02 pm

        Of course, since he didn’t stop the rape at the time, McQueary should have turned the POS in himself after notifying Paterno and then learning in short order that nothing was done about it. He clearly gets an epic FAIL of humanity for that, just like the rest of the higher ups…

      • TedSpe said, on November 11, 2011 at 10:02 pm

        Yes, snarkk, if Sundusky were a stranger, it’s completely different

      • snarkk said, on November 11, 2011 at 10:19 pm

        Another thing I’d point out is that McQueary’s dad John knew all about this. The son consulted him right after he saw the rape, and father John told him to tell Paterno, not call the cops. John could have called the cops himself at that point, when he obviously figured out after a few days that Sandusky was going to skate. I think father John also had a previous connection with the football program, but I can’t find a link to that at the moment. I find this following statement by John the father the other day to be a strange admission of moral guilt and self-waiver of fault at the same time, whether intentional or not.

        “The investigation has been going on for three years, and I’ve known for 10 years,” John said. “This is about a child. … That’s what makes this tough on everyone.”


      • unca chuck said, on November 12, 2011 at 8:53 am

        So the dad did nothing as well. Brilliant.

  60. Nipper said, on November 12, 2011 at 12:58 am

    That whole Football program is going down the tubes. It’s just a matter of time now. The foot dragging and cover-up will really spread the mud around.

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