Is This The Final *ABL* Day for 2012?
I think tonight’s start is *it* for Timmy. I can’t imagine the Giants running him out there in the sweltering Atlanta heat if he pitches poorly tonight, at home, against arguably the worst hitting team in the national league. I’ll discuss *options* a little later in this thread.
We have spent a lot of time discussing the causes of this spectacular collapse by the 2-time Cy Young award winner. It’s probably a combination of a lot of things–some that are fixable, some that aren’t. Personally, I think we are way past taking one good start and feeling like he’s turned a corner. There isn’t *one corner* to turn. Timmy is at the top of Lombard Street looking down. And if he pitches well tonight, I’ll be happy because we likely won but it won’t do a thing to change my feelings about where he is or where he’s going this year. I think this is a lost year for him and while it’s certainly unusual for a pitcher at his age with his resume to have an implosion year like this one, there a lots of examples of pitchers *close* to his resume who have had one-off years. And my feelings are, turn the page on this season sooner rather than later…….
I’ve never had a problem *turning a page* on a player and moving on. That might sound heartless but it’s not (to me). Growing up, horse racing was a huge part of my life. And despite the cynical take a non-horse racing fan would take to the sport, the fact is, I’ve never known a more *emotional* sport for true, die hard fans. But in horse racing, you have to be ready to withstand the blow of your favorite horse disappearing at any moment. Whether they break down in a race or they abruptly retire, you can’t get too close to the horse as a fan or you’re just setting yourself up to be let down over and over. I had lots of practice moving on from a horse that I was emotionally connected to. Why? Because there is no horse that’s more important than the sport.
And it’s the same for me in baseball. There is no player that’s more important than the team. My problem isn’t “Oh no, what shall we do, we just *can’t* move on without our beloved Timmy!!!!”. My problem is, after we DL him, what will be the plan to replace him>>> And by *replace* I don’t mean replacing 2-time CY award winning Timmy. I mean replacing the guy who will be dragging a 6.42 ERA out to the mound with him tonight. The bottom line is that we don’t need Timmy to return to his long lost former self. We just need a guy who isn’t going to implode every start. The Giants have 3 rock-solid aces in Cain, Bumgarner and Voggy. And whatever your opinions are of Zito, he’s given the team a chance to win more often than not each time he’s taken the hill this year. Lincecum has not done that. He’s started 18 games this year and the team has won 4 of them. F-O-U-R. That can’t continue….
And I don’t think we have an answer in-house. I suppose the Giants could cobble together some kind of “Penny-Hacker” concoction but that likely wouldn’t be better than “6.42”–they might do it in Atlanta just to buy Sabes a little time. But at this point in the season, the answer is obviously a mid-season trade. If Sabean went out and got a guy like Wandy Rodriguez, I think all of our problems would be solved this year. Wandy might be a perfect target, in fact. He’s making 10 million this season, 13 million next season and then there’s a club option on him for 2014. So he is NOT a rental. And if he’s not a rental, I would give up Brown and a couple other lower level prospects for him. And remember, the long-term depth of our pitching staff is NOT looking good right now. In 2014 we have exactly 2 pitchers who will be on that staff (Cain and Bum). The Giants are going to seriously have to look at picking Zito’s option up if they don’t find some other arms. And I’d rather pay Wandy 13 million and Zito his 7 million dollar buy out than give Zito 18 million dollars……..
But that’s a discussion for another day. The point is, there are a lot of #2/#3 pitchers to target in a trade. Wandy is probably considered their #1 so you aren’t going to get him for a combination of “Nate/Burriss/Linden/any other shit you can think of.” Remember, if we don’t want them other teams probably don’t, either. You HAVE to give up quality to get something you want in a trade and no team is gonna get hoodwinked in a trade as the deadline approaches. The sellers have all the leverage at this time of the year (ESPECIALLY if they are selling pitching, something all teams need) and you’re probably going to have to overpay a little to get what you want……
But something has to be done NOW. We aren’t talking about a position player who’s having a terrible year who you can just hide somewhere in the LU. We’re talking about a key starting pitcher and we can’t continue to lose 78% of the time he pitches. I agree whole hardly that our season is probably toast if Zito *reverts* and Timmy doesn’t. So one of them has to go. If we can add a pitcher via trade who can at least go out there and give us a chance to win most of the time we are going to be good to go with our *3 Aces* + new guy + Zito and a competent offense leading the way. The Giants can DL Timmy with some phantom injury and figure out what to do with him sometime later this Summer. Either that, or just bring him back to replace an injury or Zito if he *reverts*……
A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball 
Good players do have down years (and I do mean entire season), so I think it’s a little early to shoot Lincecum. One of my early heroes was Frank robinson of the Reds, HOF with many great years, But after hitting .342 in ’62, he hits .259 in ’63 and his OPS drops 200 points. Next 4 years he never hits below .296, with one season of over 1.000 OPS. Then in ’68 his numbers drop to .268 and .830s OPS. The Reds think he’s done, ship him off to the Orioles, and he wins the MVP. Can you imagine what fans, and Frank himself must have felt when he went from league best to league average/below? Reds were often in contention, so that same argument we have posited here–if TL was doing anything at all , yada yada–was true back then too.
Loo posted last night that the Stros are double A club, and while I won’t argue that, I wlll point out something uniquely cool about baseball. The shittier teams are not losing 15-0 every night and getting blown out like shittier teams in the NBA or NFL. The crummiest teams that lose 100 games (and stros are on pace for that) are still winning 60 times during the season.
The A’s had recently lost like 9 in a row, but spanked the Red Sox, whose clubhouse guys make more than most A’s, 3 straight. Hell, after the Giants left town, the rockies who hit like shit on the road, have won only 1 moe game than the astros and are playing without Tulo, walk in and take 2 out of 3 from the Nats with their best home record and top wins in the NL.
and you’ll notice I said “one off” year. I could see him turning it around next year. I could also see him not turning it around. Either way, I’m ready for the page to be turned on Timmy this year. As I said, we can’t absorb an entire season of this coming from a guy who start 20% of all our games….
willieDav, bad memory and probably, a bad example too. Specifically, it was after he hit .296 in 1965 – a very good year for him – that he was traded to the Orioles (in 1966). After his .268 BA in 1968 that you cited, Baltimore retained him for 3 more years, where he did do well.
Actually, I like Flav’s post because he is thinking “outside the box.” I will comment more on this later . . .
I did mess up the years before he was traded, you’re right. But there was the drop off in the down year of ’63 for the reds after a stellar one, and 3 years later he was MVP of the league in the AL. Couple years after that (’68) comes another off season before 3 more good ones as you point out. All I’m saying is even the best players in the world can have an entire season of less than great baseball, and still rebound and regain form.
Yes, I do agree with that point willieDav. Quite frankly, Robinson did not get along with the owner DeWitt. He asked for a raise that year and Dewitt – who I suspect was a racist – turned him down flat. Wikipedia says this about the trade:
“Prior to the 1966 season, Reds owner Bill DeWitt sent Robinson to Baltimore in exchange for pitcher Milt Pappas, pitcher Jack Baldschun and outfielder Dick Simpson. The trade is now considered among the most lopsided deals in baseball history, especially as Robinson was only 30 years old and appeared to have many productive years ahead of him. DeWitt attempted to downplay this fact and defend the deal to skeptical Reds fans by famously referring to Robinson as “an old 30.” It forever tarnished Dewitt’s legacy, and outrage over the deal made it difficult for Pappas to adjust to pitching in Cincinnati (he was traded out of town after only three seasons). There were also rumors that Robinson did not get along well with teammate Vada Pinson.”
Robinson suffered from double vision and severe headaches resulting from a horrific collision out at
second base with Al Weis in June 1967 that lingered and were the reason for his sub-par ’68 season.
He is also credited with creating the “high cut” stirrup that was fashionable years ago…
I always crack up when someone wants to hold onto a player longer than their odometer warrants. Hey, even I have done it – both recently (Dustin Ackley) and in the past (Willie Mays and Muhammad Ali).
Regarding Ackley, he was a young stud who was called up last year and did an outstanding job for an otherwise, forgettable team, the Seattle Mariners. Both him and Jason Kipnis, were thought to be the new up and coming 2nd basemen. I drafted Ackley in the Flap league because he was thought to have a slight edge over Kipnis. WRONG. Terrible selection on my part, as Kipnis has shined and Ackley has dimmed . . . An hour ago, I dropped his ass in FL. I was done, finished, kaput, etc., with his sorry ass.
Emotionally, when Willie Mays was traded, I cried. I also got in a fight with my best friend, who had always maintained that Aaron was the better player. We would get into heated arguments regarding that debate. It especially got bad the day Mays was traded to the Mets – he was egging me on and I finally cold cocked him, other friends separating us. I was wrong on both accounts (for crying and fighting). Mays was finished with the Giants and I ignored the signs on the wall.
Muhammad Ali was another all time great, where it tore me up when he was beaten by Leon Spinks. Leon Spinks? The ignominy of it all. Worse, was when he was beaten to a pulp by Larry Holmes. I, along with many other people, thought Larry was going to kill him that night. I just wanted the fight stopped for my hero.
I have no idea who we would target in a trade for Lincecum. I also have no idea if it is a good time to trade him now or prior to next season or to even trade him at all. I vacillate between these choices. However, I do agree with Flav that he has become nearly useless or to use my term, he SUCKS. I do trust in Sabean though. I think he is burning the mid-night oil attempting to solve this conundrum.
“There is no player that’s more important than the team.”
True, but I do have favorites that I pull hard for when they struggle (both Tim and Huff fit that category for me).
The Giants trading for pitching would blow the sports media’s collective mind. I do like to have insurance and trading for a solid starter wouldn’t bother me. Trying Tim in the pen for awhile wouldn’t bother me either. I don’t think I’d be as worried with Tim in there as say Hensley or Penny. Can you imagine if Tim found his stuff in the pen? You’d be talking a Smoltz like situation and SF would have a Closer controversy on their hands. And yes, I do think Timmy has the type of arm that would respond to pitching one inning a few days straight.
Trading Brown doesn’t bother me as much as most folks. I like the kid and think he’ll do well but getting a speed type hitter probably isn’t as hard as getting a big bopper for Pac Bel.
First things first, Timmy needs to go out and win this one, if nothing else for his own piece of mind.
So, add 13m to the 66?m already owed the rotation next year and give up their only top OF prospect to boot? That’s out of the box alright. Out of the park as well. OUT OF YOUR FRIGGIN MIND.
Weatherproof games: Indians at Blue Jays, Nationals at Marlins, Red Sox at Rays, Pirates at Brewers and Rangers at Mariners. Expect to see images of raindrops falling on tarps throughout this weekend, as both Saturday and Sunday have thunderstorms in the forecast for New York, Baltimore, Atlanta, Chicago, Colorado and Cincinnati. Kansas City and Minnesota will be dry, but the mercury will be in the low-to-mid 90s. As usual, Los Angeles will be sunny in the 80s and much cooler temperatures are in the offing (high 60s) for San Francisco.
An eye opener for sure. I haven’t read every post this week, but earlier the discussion was..Has there EVER been an elite level pitcher like this fall so far so fast, and recovered? A guy in the conversation for the best opening 5 years in baseball history. Yes I said history. Love to see a stat comparison with any other 1st 5.
So again my question is did any of you come up with someone?
No one came up with anyone who recovered from a FULL season horror show. As was pointed out though, Tim’s not in that territory yet since it’s only mid-season. The clock is ticking…
There are way more buyers than sellers now due to the addition of the second wild card. The Giants have nothing of much value to offer (that they would be willing to give up). Hopefully they can at least get the great Casper Wells from Seattle.
The Giants have blue chips (Brown, Panik and Hembree) it’s just a question of whether they’ll bite the bullet and pay up. Wells is *interesting* how does he do at pitching?
Wandy is not getting a blue chipper from anybody, IMO. But I’ve never been a “bunch of shit” guy either. He may be Houston’s #1 but he’d be our 4 or 5 and we are not giving up Brown for him. IMO. If that’s what they’d want, there’s kind of an alternative to trading for him- not trading for him. As far trading Tim this year, Sabean would be insane-considering his contract and his performance to date, they’d have to put together a ridiculous deal where they give up a boatload of prospects and probably pay the bulk of his contract as well.
They need a “decent” second half from either Tim or Zits, at this point I can’t imagine anyone giving a shit which one. We should know enough by the deadline to see if we really do need another starter. If Tim is pitching well, they won’t need one. If Tim is on the DL or in purgatory, they’ll need to obtain one, as history shows that Zito can revert at any time.
Twin, I’ll assume you weren’t addressing my post since I didn’t suggest trading Timmy. And as I said in the thread, we can’t have both of them pitching giving us no chance to win. And even if you think Zits is going to revert, he’s given us a chance to win, usually, when he’s gone out this year. Wandy’s contract could depress his trade value a little, but again, that’s why I want him. We could use the depth in 2013-2014.
No, I wasn’t addressing your post. Didn’t see it until now- as I’ve said- it takes me a long time to type and edit a post. Sorry about that.
Three starts or so for each before the deadline if Tim stays in the rotation. As I said in my last post, I think they deal for a starter if Tim is out, how Zito is throwing won’t affect that because his history says to NEVER count on him.
Not a problem, I was just clarifying.
I wonder if a certain struggling Royals lefty can be had Dirrrrt cheap?
Oh, the horror!
Why? I’d rather keep sending tim out there.
Do you believe in miracles? YES!!!!!
Working out (I hate legs) I came up with a couple more *one offs* a little closer to home. Half the blog here was ready to DFA Pablo after 2010….while he is certainly less than svelte now, he has proven himself to be a legit all star and .300 hitter. Even more extreme would be Matt Kemp. I remember ragging on this guy for 2010, when his OPS was a Nate like .760 and he got caught stealing 15 times (with 19 total SBs). There was a game when he caught hell for not hustling to the plate after a hit and the batter got thrown out before Kemp crossed the plate. His OF play caught some heat too.
Uh, how do you like me now? Last year the OPS was .986 and he was runner up (not in my book) to Braun for MVP of the league. This year that OPS is 1.166! And our boy Nate knows all too well about his D and smarts.
I have a hard time with the idea of replacing a guy with lincecum track record and the ability to still get hitters to miss pitches he puts where he wants to (his biggest issue, imo) for a wellemeyer ironhead sadowski type. Or giving up top prospects and paying a guy like Wandy or ryan dempster if you want to go that route. These type of guys are going to be expensive to acquire and keep, and has been mentioned here before, nate and a package ain’t gettin that deal done.
Interesting enough a F-G article I read months ago predicted this scenario—where the comp for talent will drive up the price because of the extra WC and more teams feeling they have a shot at it. Which also makes what you do off season more important, because picking up pieces this time of year will be harder.
LMAO . . . Willied, you are exactly like me . . . I hate working out my legs too. Ugh.
willie, I had read that about the extra WC and trades but a team also has to consider the new compensation rule. Last year we didn’t get a comp pick for Beltran because we couldn’t offer him arbitration per his contract. This year a team can’t get anything if a player is on the last year of his contract. So the lack of a rental market will probably also skew the prices for players with more than one year left on their contracts.
“After the 2012 draft, free agents will no longer be classified by “type”. Instead, a team will only be able to receive compensation if it makes its former player an offer at least equal to the average of the 125 richest contracts.[29] However, if a player is traded during the final season of his contract, his new team will be ineligible to receive any compensation.”
Liriano K’d 15 last night…
Loo, that guy boggles the mind. I bet if I pick him up in FL off the waiver wire, he reverts to his POS form.
He K’d 8 thru the first 3.
Great article about Jon Miller in the chron: http://blog.sfgate.com/thebigevent/2012/07/13/jon-millers-tough-rookie-year-with-1974-photo/
The A’s might be sellers and they seem to have a lot of pitching stockpiled. With Suzuki struggling, one of the young catchers might get their attention. also they could use someone like Arias for short/3rd.
People forget that a contender can be a buyer and a seller at the same time…
How the hell can you have an organization supposedly totally geared to pitching and not have at least some kind of serviceable AAA or AA pitcher that can come up to the big club and at least not start a forest fire every time he starts? Wheeler’s not the issue since he wouldn’t even be ready to sub in for Zito or Timmeh this year. There’s NOBODY in the entire Giants organization that they can pull up here to sub in to start for Zito or Tim? And the A’s are putting Blackley out there every 5th day as a Giants GIFT? WTF was that? Surkamp being DL’d is no excuse, there will always be some guy with a bad arm in the minor league organization. What happens if Lincecum continues suckage AND suddenly one of the OTHER three SF starters goes down with a cranky elbow for 3 or 4 weeks? To get a guy who is a #4 at best in Wandy or similar, they may have to give up one of their few real minor league position prospects? This is a huge problem, and a total screw up squarely on Giants management…
I predict Tim strikes out the side on 9 pitches in the first inning…
I have a better chance hitting the PK 6 today with 6 singles than that happening. In other words…They both have none chance!
DMD: I was almost going to tout you on to hunch play “Sunday At Nipper’s” yesterday at Belmont. I actually thought he had a big shot. Euthanized at the 1/8 pole. What a lovely sport…
Snarkk—– I agree that it’s almost inconceivable that we would have nothing ready to fill a void in the starting rotation. Hacker has a decent record at Fresno but a shitty ERA. Petit is probably our best current AAA SP. If they just wanted to skip Tim’s next start (which would be a good idea no matter how he does tonight) they could just let Penny take it.
If he pitches well tonight I’m sure they give him his next one but if he gets batted around by the (L)astro’s then what are the chances they let him pitch next week in Atlanta. I think his next start is in Atlanta, if not he’d get the first game in Philly. Either way, I don’t want to have to watch that……..
Usually teams have at least one good to decent prospect and a bunch of late 20s and lifer guys at AAA that fill out the roster and at least would be serviceable for a while at the big club, or at least for a handful of starts nobody knows what they’re tossing, so they get by just by being an unknown. Just like the guy a few years back we had that then ended up with the Angels later for an extended cup of coffee, forget his name now. Hacker and Petit are on the 40, so I say get one of them ready. Seemed to me in ST Petit had the livelier arm, but not sure. It’s not at all beyond the pale that TWO of the five starters any team has at the beginning of a season may need to be replaced at least for one DL stint or longer, yet apparently the Giants are not prepared at all for that possibility. The Yanks had both Sabathia and Pettite go down in the space of three days or something like that. They went totally inside the org to get replacements…
http://www.capitalnewyork.com/article/sports/2012/06/6090779/pettitte-and-sabathia-go-down-and-yankees-go-endless-backup-well
Matt Palmer
That’s him. OK for a short while. Then went to the Angels and had a good half season or so, then Pfffft…
Flav, excellent thread this morning. One of your bests. And that’s saying sumthin’.
“Because there is no horse that’s more important than the sport.” Excellent line. I’m too emotional myself with the horses. It’s one of my biggest downfalls. With all the blood, sweat and tears involved, I could never own a horse. And besides, where the hell is he going to sleep in my little apartment?
I’m off to go botch and bungle Hollywood Park today. Wish me luck.
You have about 6 hours to post time, Dennis. Are you going there on a pogo stick?
I fell off a Pogo Stick (by Mister Jolie out of Liberty Stick) when I was eight and chipped a tooth.
I’m watching Boys In The Hall and this is the All Star show . . . Pete Rose was prophetic when he said, “We can’t lose . . . We have all the brothers.” Likewise, Brooks Robinson, explaining why the American League lost so many games in the 60s and early 70s, said, “The American League was slower to add the black players.” This is a great series (that I am sure most of you have seen).
Tim needs to pitch much better, but I would love to see the defense play a real good game behind Lincecum tonight, particularly Pagan. Someone on the Flap suggested the D, when Lincecum pitches, gets like they used to do when Zito pitches. They get a negative vibe, wondering what bad things are going to happen, and it affects their play. There could be something to that.
I think it may be the fading of joints during the pre-game ritual followed by Doritos. Not to mention Zito always pulling out his acoustic and playing Bob Dylan songs.
My suggestions?
Replace the Doritos with microwaved White Castle sliders and make Zito go electric
Pagan needs to get rolling again offensively as well – wouldn’t surprise me to see him back in the lead off slot before long …
I’m with you. The defense does seem to sag now when Tim is pitching. And, he’s letting an early fuckup get to him because his confidence seems already shot, for good reason…
Urban is interviewing Giants VP Bobby Evans on 95.7 and asked, hey, Melky was in the news this week of course for All Start MVP and for saying that he told his agent to contact the Giants and start conversations about a contract. What’d you think about that, has his agent contacted you? Evans replied he “hadn’t heard” that Melky said that, but that it was “nice to hear” that he had said it. WTF — that Melky quote was all over the media all week; if you’re the contract guy for the Giants, how can you not hear about that quote from your best hitter?…
Yeah, that sounds very weak, as well as unnecessarily stupid. If Melky hears that, he’s liable to tell his agent, “Fuck that coy asshole, we’re waiting until the end of the season to negotiate.” In short, Evans should have used the proverbial “no comment,” instead of being evasive in an annoying way.
that almost sounds like a joke he didn’t get off right. As you said, how could he have not heard about that? Maybe he meant he hadn’t heard from Melky’s agent?
No. He also separately said he hadn’t heard from the agent…
Ah The Great Timmy debate, so I will admitt that I don’t know how the inner workings of the team works. Meaning I don’t know how or when guys can be brought up, sent back down etc. so why can’t the giants bring up on of the prospects for a game or two? Just like hitters, pitchers need to see what they are capable of. Just a thought
Blade, read your post about the book The Terror, sounds like the movie The Thing?
You know Kevin, in many ways it is, except this monster isn’t shape changing like the “Thing” was. Besides the monster, you have the other issues confronting the 150 plus men, e.g., extreme cold, hunger, both steam ships boxed in by ice, and they are running out of coal (to cook and heat the ship). As Zumie said, Simmons is a great author, that ties this episodic novel together. If you get a chance, pick this book up at the library. Very good long read that holds your attention.
Snarkk, I was the one who suggested the D played tight behind Timmy. I threw the same theory out there regarding Zito the last few years. The only thing I can think of to stop that from happening (if that is indeed what’s happening) is for the Tim to throw better.
Miller made a comment a few Timmy starts ago as the game was getting under way: he said (paraphrasing it) that he was surprised at how quiet the crowd was–like they were *waiting* to see what was going to happen to Timmy–edge of their seat kind of thing.
The same thing is happening with the fielders, I think…….
Yeah, it’s clear when Zito is pitching one of his interminable innings, the defense goes walkabout on him. Tim is giving off similar vibes now, although it kills me to say that…
If The White Shark has lost his starting job then why not put Pagan back in the 1-hole and give Nate the RF job back? He’s not hitting in the 6 hole, maybe, as Loo suggested above, they move him back to get his bat going again). It would improve the OF defense slightly (since Nate would make any defense better) and we’d still have a lot of speed on the bench for late in the game (Christian, Blanco, and Burriss).
Our bench, at least in terms of hitting, is almost non-existent….
So, if in fact they bring Huff back for whatever reason, maybe a final do or die two weeks, who gets DL’d for the roster space? Burriss?…
probably Christian, unless he keeps hitting and stays atop the LU. Both he and Blanco are redundant as back up OF’s. It’s weird how both Blanco, and now apparently Casilla, have lost their jobs. I know both had a pretty good scuffle going (Blanco worse than Casilla) but I didn’t think it was so terrible that it was time for a switch…….
I think it’s too early to bail on Blanco. Yeah, he’s fallen, but I think he’s just tired. To me, he’s got way more to offer team energy and setting the table than Christian, who’s a journeyman that has good defensive play, but at best might get hot with the bat a coupla games, then down the dumper…
I agree on the *tired* theory. So why wasn’t he in there first game back off a long break?
I have no idea. I thought the same last night, why not Blanco starting after a long AS layoff? Probably because Christian had a coupla good games before the break, and Bochy is into who’s hot when nobody owns the position. So, Christian went Ohfer, though with an RBI…
It could just be the start of a Blanco/Christian platoon.
I think that’s the move, Flav. We know what Nate is, and he’s bound to go on a hot streak…
Macdog, if you are around – I think Trout is slowing down . . . Only 3 for 4 today, with 2 SB, and 1 run today.
Maybe I’m not paying enough attention to Tim’s starts but I don’t remember the defense being THAT bad behind him. There was the Pitt start that was bad but I don’t think the team was mentally into that one for whatever reason–day game (after a night of booze and whores) and the final game before the all star break….
I don’t recall any other game standing out in terms of bad defense that led to lots of runs
Pagan F’d up on an early drive to center, I think, in DC, in Tim’s game, and that really hurt. There’ve been several games where the infielders haven’t handled balls cleanly and missed DPs or made bad throws, which get magnified because Tim then gets hammered soon after. I don’t think we’re hallucinating that the defense has not been stellar behind him. Plus, the oppo has been hitting rockets off him, and you can’t expect every rocket to be picked clean, particularly with the way this D has played this year…
Of course, Pagan has had plenty of F ups this year with everybody else pitching, too…
I was at that game snarkk and I couldn’t believe the route that Pagan made.
I am fairly surprised at the number of players hitting over .350 right now: Melky, McCutchen, Wright, Ruiz and Trout–and Votto is almost there at .344
That’s a lot, IMO
I agree with Z about Pagan’s iffy defense when Timmy pitches,but on the other hand, we’re usually talking about him misplaying 400+ lasers to CF..the pitcher has some culpability as well…
I had listed the internal possibilities a week or two ago- Hacker, Petit, etc. Hacker’s ERA is over 5 his last ten starts, Petit is 2.13 w/13 BB 68 K in 63 IP over is last ten. He’s a *real* wide guy and has some MLB experience, albeit with little success.But I’d look at him first among the internal options. I’ll look at external options later.
BTW, maybe I mentioned it, but the team has a club option on Vogelsong for 2014.
the game is at 2am tonight and I will have to watch it in the morning, so nobody post any spoilers during the game, OK?
got it. Hey, at least you’re going to be good to go for the Olympics, right Edd? Please, no spoilers for that, ok? 🙂
Everyone is worried it will be rained out as we have had a very wet summer 3 days in June we had more rainfall than a typical June month!!
It is a great honor to be in the same area as an Olympics, last one was LA
How is that a great honor?
On a positive note, the fans at AT&T have been making some nice grabs on Tim’s home run balls…
that just isn’t positive enough, got anything else for me?
the cubbies are beating up on the snakes
2 games in a row
RA DIckey is working on his 3rd bad game out of his last 4. Could the jig be up on this gimmick?
I have it on good authority he isn’t
Hey, Ed. Thanks for taking the fantasy bullet for me the other day. I was about to p/u Ian Kennedy again the when you beat me to the punch. Since his first three starts (on my org. team), Kennedy should have his name written a bullet. He stinks on ice.
Ian? I have it on good authority he isn’t
Hey Blade if you like those types of books, check out James Rollins. He mixes fact, history, and fiction. He uses quantum physics and nano technology
Yeah, I like him . . . He writes adventure novels ala Indiana Jones.
Blanco RF, Theriot 2B, Cabrera LF, Posey 1B, Sandoval 3B, Pagan CF, Sanchez C, Crawford SS, (Lincecum P)
!!!!!???
Agree with you on the “posey first base” thing. Unless Bochy thinks Hector is a better hitter than Belt, it makes no sense. Maybe they’re just dead set on keeping his legs fresh but shit, they just came off a long break….
I have no idea if this is anti-Belt or if Tim and Buster are on the outs, but this LU is clearly worse defensively and offensively than Buster catching and Belt at first.
So of course Tim will spin a 1-Hitter and Hector will drive in all four runs.
Or, Posey will not catch a short hop throw for out #3 and two runs will score and Hector will go 0-4 and have two passed balls and a wild pitch, letting in 2 more runs. We don’t know, but even if it comes out great, and I hope it does, at least going in it seems not the best defensive set up for success in today’s game…
This supports a ghost of a theory that has sat in the back of my mind but has not been articulated: Timmy is out of synch with his catchers. So maybe the thinking here is that Sanchez un-Zitoed Zito and can un-un-Timmy Timmy.
Sanchez has caught Lincecum the last 5 games, 3 of which Tim sucked, and in 1 of the other 2 — the A’s game in Oakland — he sucked in the first frame and then got out of it miraculously to throw a good next 5 or 6. To me, Tim’s offered equal opportunity suckage regardless of catcher, but at least Posey is better defensively against all the pitches in the dirt Tim throws…
Hey, Flav and Loo. They’re about to run the Landaluce (Seattle Slew – Strip Poker by Bold Ruler) Stakes at Hollywood. I bet you guys remember that D. Wayne Lukas fast filly from the early ’80’s. Her unbeaten career was cut short by a deadly virus. Like Loo said, “What a lovely sport…”
so much for good authority
So much for fielding your best team.
Sanchez is now catcher to the riff raff?
Good thread, Magnus. I agree with nearly everything there, but then I’m an ass-kisser (at least here).
Here’s what I am honestly afraid of and disquietingly “certain” of: Timmy has a case of Steve Blass Disease. And no one ever found the cause of that.
Maybe I am inclined toward this conclusion because I met Steve Blass last Saturday in the press box in Pittsburgh right after I met Kruk&Kuip.
You won’t meet a more affable, pleasant, humble person than Steve Blass (actually K&K were the same).
So.
The inexplicable loss of superior ability and talent does happen.
What then?
You can’t put Timmy in the OF like they did for Rick Ankiel.
Magnus may be right.
Giddyup.
With a slight teardrop for my thoroughbred dream.
p.s. Stewart O’Nan revealed to me that two years ago Steve Blass had two holes-in-one in one round! (Blass by the way has a new book out; I intend to read it.)
What do you know about Kerry Kennedy getting popped for hit and run? Any idea about the drug(s) she was high on? Sheesh . . . I like the Kennedy’s politics, but their personal lives really suck wind.
. . . and in other news, Time reports, “Authorities in Papua New Guinea have arrested 29 members of a ‘cannibal cult,’ who’ve been accused of murdering seven witch doctors in the country’s jungle interior. The cult members reportedly ate their victims brains raw and concocted soup from their penises.” 🙂
Read more: http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/07/14/papua-new-guinea-cult-members-arrested-for-cannibalism/?hpt=hp_t2#ixzz20diRu7Y6
I would imagine getting shot in the head really sucks wind…
That would be a very bad day,
Papua New Guinea in the interior might be a little freaky, but the developed areas are no picnic. An Aussie friend of mine is ex Army and still in the reserves, he’s comfortable using guns and knives, believe me. He has visited Port Moresby, capital city of Papua New Guinea, and he said it was the scariest urban environment he’d been in. Violent crime is rampant, and foreigners are targeted. The watch words are get in, get out…
Sorry, the Posey/Hector thing today, of all games, seems dead wrong. This is a huge game for Lincecum, you need the best defense out there, and they do not. Plus, Belt needs to get the ABs, Bochy is starting to jack him around again. No Belt at 1B, and Hector trying to block Timmeh sliders/splits in the dirt with men on doesn’t appeal to me as putting the best out there for success today…
I have said many times since 2010 that I was wrong about Bochy being a bad manager. He’s a fantastic manager. And one thing that i realize he’s always done is manage without giving a shit about what anyone else thinks. He could care less. And whether the ship is going down or you’re 6 outs away from winning the World Series, that’s the type of dude I want running the show…
If the ship’s going down, Bochy better give a shit about where the lifeboats are, else I’ll really lose respect for him 😉 …
Craig, so do you support this Posey/Sanchez alignment ? You just said you didn’t. It’s always possible I’m missing something, of course.
Since 2010 I’m a Bochy guy, as I’ve always made clear. But I can turn as easily as most humans. Not imminent, though. I love Bruce. (My 15yo daughter loves the way he talks, as do I. In post-game press conferences he is measured, cagey, decent, diplomatic, sending coded messages to players. He strikes me as a good military-type leader (isn’t he an army brat?), in that he backs his men, takes no guff; they go to the front for him. Joe Maddon is like that, too. They are loose and easy but don’t cross ’em.
Vungo having a nice game (3-4). I think every time Loo brings him up he goes off. 🙂
Luke Bryan checking out his “cheat sheet” arm for the Star Spangled Banner during the All Star game. I guess he thought he was taking an algebra exam. Ha.
maybe he can share notes with christina aguilera.
SOHCAHTOA?
Excuse my membership in the ignoscenti, but what is *ABL*?
Anything But Linoleum…
Walkoff blast by Crawford — Yes !!!!
Just screwin’ with ya, edd….
Does this mean we can’t talk about the game tonight? If so, I expect the same courtesy from Ed regarding the Olympics. 🙂
That’s right. No ping pong spoilers, no way!…
Count me amongst those disappointed and perplexed to see Sanchez getting 2/5 of the starts at catcher now.
agreed. If you want to rest Posey, as I’m sure he C tomorrow with the day game following the night game, then sit him for 9. Sf is off monday, and thursday and sunday are day games with early starts But last night was over quickly, barely 2 and a half hours, as I reminded Nip..who remains postless.
Don’t tell me some homeboy gave you the old, “I think that’s my van, eh?”
I saw a piece before Sanchez caught Tim for the first time that Buster wanted that start behind the plate. He can’t be happy. As I alluded to, there almost has to be an issue with somebody- because this is a demonstrably inferior LU to Posey/Belt- on every level. If it’s Belt, and that’s more likely, just ship him off to Milwaukee with Crick for Hart.
Seems to me that either the Giants have had minimal clubhouse drama (maybe more this year), or we hear little of it, or both. Can you imagine if we were in NYC? I’ll leave it to Loo to suggest the Post or Daily News heds. Speaking of the clubhouse, what’s with Huff? I think he comes back, they give him a week or two, and if he isn’t pretty darned good, he’s DFA’ed. In NY, he would’ve been axed while waiting for his flight at LaGuardia — or it would’ve been on the back of the Post or News. I think the Giants are more patient than most teams — not that that results in a better end product. Exhibit A? Ryan Garko.
From the “where are they now?” file — Fred Lewis is now with the Buffalo Bisons, the AAA teams of the Mets. In 66 games so far this season, Freddles’ stats are : BA .295, OPS .859, HRs 7, bobbled balls in the OF, priceless…
I’m not driving to Buffalo to see him, but when they come to town, sure, I’d wish him well.
Strange to not start Belt tonight. Despite a SO, I thought he had a good game last night at the plate working the count for a hit, BB and also scoring a run. Another out he hit the ball hard just right at the CF. I guess Bochy just wants to remind him who’s in charge or something. I generally like Bochy but his treatment of Belt is nonsense.
One never knows what’s going on behind the scenes. It was just two games, but Belt was anemic and passive in Pittsburgh. (There’s a movie or song title in there somewhere.)
The whole club was endemic in getting handed their asses in Pittsburg. Post AS is the start to the second half. New season. Last night was a good night at the plate and the Astros suck. What better way to get Belt going then to run him out there 2 days in a row or maybe even 3.
Closest I remember to the urgency of this start for Tim was Dirty before the no-hitter against San Diego.
true; he was ready to be demoted to the bullpen then, true
OK. To do a totally bipolar flip on Timmy (and I only caught the last few pitches of the eight-pitch inning): it can’t be a Steve Blass-type of thing. It’s not like he CAN’T find the plate. It’s focus. My ballet-dancer daughter Evelyn has danced for America’s greatest ballerina, Suzanne Farrell. Evelyn told me this week that before a performance Suzanne Farrell says, “Don’t lose your focus out there.” Focus.
Advance notice: don’t expect me to post about Timmy’s performance tomorrow. But then again I have been known to flip my views.
A Cardinals fan in my book knew the Astros pitcher in HS.
Brilliant catching by Sanchez so far. The other possibility is that Bochy is still one of those baseball “minds” who won’t be convinced by logic and evidence that a pitcher’s performance isn’t affected by who’s catching.
Good to hear from you James! Please be sure to monitor Tim’s body language as the night progresses! How are we looking in regards to RISP tonite?
LOL, SanDawg. I haven’t forgotten the prospect of that Manhattan later this summer.
I like Timmy’s pace. I think it’s Ralph Kiner who liked to say that good pitchers pitch as if they’re double-parked. Gibson and Seaver were quick workers, if I recall correctly.
Actually, the quote is, “Gibson pitches as though he’s double-parked.” (broadcaster, Vin Scully on Bob Gibson)
However, Ralph Kiner did say, “Two-thirds of the earth is covered by water. The other one-third is covered by Gary Maddox.”
that’s fantastic, I’ve never heard that.
Maybe Kiner was quoting Scully or maybe it was a common phrase among all broadcasters — but yeah Kiner repeated the Maddox one often.
Just got home from our town art/wine/big tit festival…..
Twin, to answer your earlier question: No, I do not support the Sanchez/Posey LU. I was just making a point (earlier) that Bochy doesn’t give a shit about what anyone thinks about his managing or his LU’s. And while I disagree with him sometimes, that’s a great quality to have as a manager, if the manager is competent……
Damn, when they show the tv view from the catcher it’s impossible to see the spin on the ball right now….
It is a great quality, especially when your competence isn’t being measured by irrational decisions.
how were the tits?
And Twin, that Dirrrrrrty comparison was perfect. The only difference is that Dirrrrrrty was about to get demoted. That’s not going to happen to Tim, he’s not going to AAA……..
If Tim went to Fresno and he was able to work things out with the SideofWhite catching… ahh, never mind.
Loo gave me a little grief about it, in fun I think, but with that being the first time Jonathan’s Dad had watched him start, that had to be a show of suport for his son at a crossroads in his career. I thought it was an incredibly real and touching moment when they hugged
no doubt, I can’t recall a MORE touching or emotional moment on TV.
I’m glad for Tim right now, though there doesn’t seem to be any movement on his fastball. I’d keep a close eye on the guy when the shadows go away.
Yeah, everything looks flat.
I hope that’s not the report from Magnus’s festival.
if that was the report, that would have been an inaccurate report……..
UC Berkeley, the #1 sports school in the SF Bay Area!!
😀
You guys know the name of my fantasy team?
You can add Lowry, he’s a PUSSY.
Well, there goes our future shortstop.
Atleast Boch jerked Christian out of the LU to where he belongs on the “Pine Meat”.
Really ticked how he keeps fucking with Belt’s head though,the dude needs to be starting everday ferchrissakes.And I will really be pissed off when he brings his vet boy Huff back and throw him a few bones as well at 1B.Wait and see that will probably happen.
well, that was disappointing to see Lowry go down. But Dennis, if he’s torn his ACL then for you to call him a *pussy* means you’e either stupid or a complete asshole. Which one of those guys do you wanna be?
I’ve got him on 3 teams, on two of them he’s on my bench because he’s not hitting lately. So, if I’m gonna follow my own thread I’ll just say this: Cross him off the list!!!!!!!!!
“I’m a stupid and complete asshole?”
I hope you bought the correct ring size.
If you call a guy a *pussy* for tearing his ACL than there is no other possible assignment for you…..
In fact, Lowry was gutsy, keeping his foot there, knowing he was probably going to get drilled.
well, the shadows backdropping the outfield are now gone, so let’s see what happens.
I don’t want to jinx him, but he is doing really good tonight.
I would pay big money for the camera to pan over to the bleachers, after Kruk notices the picturesque skyline, the home crowd munching on their fries, the quiet evening game…..and they cut to a shot of The MelkMen fingercuffing a melkmaid or two. Loo might appreciate that more than the rest of you. 🙂
In a recent interview, Giants backstop Buster Posey claimed the reason he is not catching Lincecum, the two-time National League Cy Young Award winner. “It started in ST and I could see Timmeh was not himself. By two games into the season I just couldn’t do it any more. It was breaking my heart to see him like that. I went to skip and he said they would let Hector do it.”
short version of the dream that just woke me up, so I figured I’d watch the game.
I never read that before . . . Moreover, it doesn’t sound like something Posey would say. Ed, do you have a link?
read the final sentence, pfffftt
I still want the link from your brain housing unit.
Dennis may have typed too fast after hearing K&K say spiked?
Hey, Ed. My middle name is Patrick.
Go ahead and toss and turn that sucker around. As Mr. Rodgers used to say, “It’s a beautiful day in my neighborhood..Won’t you be mine, won’t you be mine, won’t you be my neighbor?”
How do, neighbor?
I am sad, it was too difficult to walk the betting parlors here and I didn’t get anything down on that horse MM(?)
good to see you, sir smile
Shhhhhh. Fat Boy is now at the plate
Bon Chance…
and Seabiscuit scores the first run, gamer face is back, bring on the Nats
And the whhhhhhhhhiiiiiifffffffff………..
Take a seat Pablo…..
The first two strikes to TL and that last pitch to Pablo, I am thinking wow, this kid has something. Between he walks some guys. as we like to say in the Pawlie house: be a ballerina.
seems mlb.com is not fully back from the melt down yesterday. They sent me a 40% off coupon for the mlb shop to say they were sorry about the games Friday not being broadcast over the internet.
Judging by the jackets I see Amy and the fans wearing it is perfect Lincecum weather