2 Ellises and a Cruz
Without these three guys, the Dodgers would be NOWHERE this season. The “Big 4” get all the publicity, but it’s these three guys, grinding out tough ABs, starting and keeping rallies alive, who have kept the Dodgers chugging along. The Big 4, as a unit, have not lived up to the hype yet, and in fact, the hype has kind of faded for the moment. Ethier is having a nice season, Ramirez is a player on the decline, Gonzalez has yet to prove he can get a team over the hump, and Kemp is clearly still feeling the hamstring to some degree. It’s especially noticeable on defense. When he and Ethier are hitting on all cylinders on defense, the rightcenter gap pretty much disappears. Not so these days. There’s a gap between them now. And AT&T Park has a lot of green grass to cover.
Having said all that, it’s a tough one for Timmy tonight. I think that, other than Victorino, whose glory years are behind him, and the pitcher’s spot, there’s 7 tough ABs for Tim to work through each time through the order. And it’s especially important that he dispose of the 2 Ellises and Cruz without expending a zillion pitches, getting weary, and making mistake pitches to the Big 4. As always, he needs to get his pitches down in the strikezone, and stay consistent. Don’t be walking guys. If a couple of the Big 4 hit a solo homer, no big deal. We still win 4-2. But if he’s walking the 2 E’s and C, trouble. The 2 E’s and C have been catching some breaks, and those breaks are due to lessen at some point. They’re going to put the ball in play, trust your defense, and DON’T WALK THEM.
40,000 people in the stadium, and untold thousands at home will be pulling for Timmy to help the Giants retake the homefield advantage for the rest of the season. Turn it back into OUR HOUSE in a big way. This is Giants baseball. You come into OUR HOUSE, and you get SHUT DOWN. We want it back to where opposing teams don’t FEEL comfortable here, they don’t LOOK comfortable, and they don’t ACT comfortable. Dominant pitching, solid defense, and an offense that will keep battling, will find a way, and never gives up. It’s Giants/Dodgers. It’s September. It’s a battle for the division title. Let’s do this thing!!
A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball 
I completely, without reservation, 100% agree with you on this topic.
Tolbert spoke about the chemistry thing yesterday on his show, often saying the same thing I said since the Dodgers went on their buying spree. Basically, he noted that you can’t just throw a bunch of all starts together and think it’ll work. It’s not like pressing a button. Guys have to know each other, trust each other and they have to be playing together with something other than just their paycheck as a motivator–they have to have a common goal. When you play all season with a team that *something else* either develops or it doesn’t and that the fine line between good chemistry and bad chemistry.
The current Dodgers never had any time to find out if the *something else* ever developed or not and the season is going to run out on them before they find out the answer to that question……..
I don’t know about “chemistry” being that huge of a factor with the *entire* team. Bonds and Pornstar Stache come to mind. Someone mentioned earlier this week that the catcher and right fielder not only don’t have to like each other, they don’t even have to know each other
If you’re winning, there’s good chemistry. If you’re losing, it’s bad chemistry…
Lets go GIANTS!
I’m ready to read a Willie post!
relax, my man, it’s like 10 hours to game time…. stay thirsty my friend, but you might want to pace yourself.
Woo! Hoo! what he said.
Excellent, and I too could not agree more, Zumie. And like you, I am ready for some unequivocal ASS WHOOPIN’ from our boys in the Orange and Black. Make our yard the Shop of Horrors again for opposing teams. They have done it before (as Chuck, I believe, pointed out yesterday). Time to get back on track.
I have to share a funny story with you guys. I noticed yesterday that I had not turned over the page of my Giants calendar (from Opening Day) to September. So, I flip the page, and who greets me other than Freddy Sanchez. Hmmm…interesting. So, I was then curious who was on November. B-Weezie come on down. And of course, I now had to flip to December, and low and behold, it’s the Pride of Danville, Nate. Of course, January was Tim and things were back to normal for the remainder of 2013. I just thought it interesting that for three months in a row you had players who are not playing with the Giants.
Anyway, as discussed yesterday, this is by no means a “must win” series. Even taking one is no cause for deep concern and a sweep by the Bums is not the end of the world. But take this first game, and even more so the series, and that wooden stake is oh so much closer to bursting that blue heart of the Bums.
Orange and Black Forever! GO GIANTS!
Oh, and before I forget…
FUCK THE DODGERS!
Chi, tell us how you really feel about the Da Bums!! ha ha
Good one zum. I always liked Mark Ellis and wished SF could have picked him up before beane let go another guy into our division…a coincidence maybe but there sure are a lot of them. I admit i’m surprised AJ Ellis is still hitting as well as he is. And I’ve been wondering for weeks who the F is Luis Cruz–all I’ve heard is he has had an extensive minor league career.
So many of other alleged LA top prospects have been total flameouts (X Paul, Jerry Sands, Abreu kid etc) as position players, which has resulted in them peopling the roster with the likes of career backups Hairston Jr. Adam Kennedy and Juan Rivera. But the above guys have done a good job replacing the departed Casey blake russell martin and MIA juan uribe.
Man I’m glad we’re four and half up at this point. Been pulling for Timmy all year. A couple key wins over the Dodgers now would do wonders for him going into the post season.
Well, Craig and others could be completely right, or the “two Ellises and a Cruz” could turn out for LA what Cody and Burrell et al were for the Giants two years ago. I don’t really think the latter is going to happen, but it could. That’s what we will be watching unfold beginning tonight (well.. your tonight, my tomorrow morning). Biggest start of Tim’s season — time to rise and shine, Timmy. If he coughs up 3 runs in the top of the 1st, it’s going to be a painful game.
I happen to think more than others here that this series is indeed “must win”, starting tonight. I spoke before about the need to avoid a skid in September, because skids in September kill playoff hopes. They lose tonight, they’re skidding. Then it gets into their heads. Completely agree with Zum about the attitude they need to bring tonight: Not in our fucking house, pal. I know there are no fans here of any team from Boston, but in that season of their first Super Bowl win, the Patriots had a great TV spot showing a couple of the players walking down the sidelines with the crowd at full pitch during a game, saying things like “Not in our house, baby. Not today, not ever.” Not empty swagger, just confidence and focus. That’s what we need to see tonight.
Apparently, the Boston refs got the message, too, right before the Raiders were about to win that game in the snow.
Shit happens.
Kyle Williams agrees, Paul.
Think the sell out crowd will be jacked up from the 1st and Timmeh will feed off that and really deliver tonight in this huge 1st game! Fuck those pukes from LA!
Rockin the Giants Always!!!!!!
Well, that was what Dodger management is hoping still, is that those 4 will gell at just the right time and go on to the WS. Not happening. and I point to Philladelphia as my example, they were picked to go all the way with their pitching and there hitters in 2010 and 2011. they failed in both years. And their team was together the whole season. So I just don’t see the dodgers pulling it together.
the chemistry thing is often misunderstood. It doesn’t mean all the players like each other and hang out after the games. It CAN mean that but it doesn’t have to.
Chemistry happens during the game between the lines— players have common goals, players know what to expect from each other— and it develops over the course of time.
Besides being 2 future hall of famers (that had a BIG part of why they played so well in SF) Bonds and Kent were able to play the game TOGETHER between the lines. It didn’t matter if they didn’t like each other outside of them…..
All things Timmy. The one thing that I’ve noticed all through this season is when he’s off, he’s missing up and in with his fastball (to a right-handed hitter). When he is doing that, he walks a lot of guys. If he gets that pitch down in the zone, guys swing at it more, and he doesn’t walk as many.
I’ve often thought that was something mechanical, like he’s trying to hump it up there a little faster, but by this point, he should have figgered that out. A ot of his struggles seem to be concentration issues. Like striking out the 3-4-5 guys, and walking the 8 and 9 guys.
Who knows? Just bust some shit tonight, Timmy. Time for a cake walk. A 7-1 game would be nice.
Ramirez is hitting .275 with the Dodgers, .343 OBP, .875 OPS. His HR and RBI totals as a Bum project to about 30 HR 105 RBI. It’s not unreasonable to expect some reality in assessing his performance. He has, in fact, been the only addition to make a real difference- and that’s the problem- their plight has zilch to do with chemistry but failed expections thus far from the other aqcuisitions- and a couple of imjuries to boot.
Chemistry? A totally different conversation, and none of us know whether the Dodgers have good or bad “chemistry”. Again, the Dodgers have failed to make up ground because the new players, aside from Ramirez, have not performed as the Bums hoped they would…
Chemistry has a ton to do with it–of course none of us know how much. It affects all sports and teams at the highest levels. To not consider that it has an impact on how teams perform together, or saying *their plight has zilch to do with chemistry* is a short sighted statement, in my opinion……
and I’m glad you brought up Ramirez— always known as a *me-first* player, it wouldn’t surprise me in the least if he’s more concerned about personal stats than helping the team win and having a common vision with other team members. That’s the kind of shit that contributes to shitty team chemistry……..
Good personal stats kinda contribute to wins. What’s “none-sighted” is citing Ramirez as a contributor to ‘shitty team chemistry” without knowledge of any such thing.BTW, “team chemuistry” is largely a clubhouse thing that may or not help a team on the field. Maybee I’ll discuss it in my next thread, baseball as a “team game” is totally misunderstood- it’s not untrue, and certainly it helps if your guys aren’t running into each other…well, we’ll discuss it later…
TF’s analysis is right on the mark.
Michael – on one hand you say “Chemistry? A totally different conversation, and none of us know whether the Dodgers have good or bad “chemistry.”
Then you say that “…their plight has zilch to do with chemistry but failed expectations thus far from the other acquisitions – and a couple of injuries to boot.”
I agree we know nothing about the Bum’s chemistry (or lack thereof), but on the other hand, I could see where the lack of chemistry could be part of the problem with their lack of production. It is all hypothetical, as none of us know for sure. But to emphatically say it has “zilch” to do with the situation, almost seems an oxymoron.
True, I was overreacting to what was said about team chemistry-there’s zero evidence that the Dodgers problems have anything to with that.. W\hat we do know is what I said- other than Hanley- their acquisitions have underperformed. and a couple injuries have hurt.
Chemistry is always about performance. Can you have good chemistry with bad performances? No. The 2010 Giants had guys that performed out of their minds for a brief period of a season or less — some due to PEDs we’ll never know — but they performed. THAT led to good chemistry. The A’s of the early 70s were excellent, clutch performers on the field that led to 3 straight WS titles. Off the field, they fought like tomcats over a kitty in heat. The Walsh and Seifert era Niners were a team of stars that excelled on the field. Not all of them got along off it, but it had great chemistry because they got it done on the gridiron. Whoever said it, said it well — show me a team of lovable losers, and I’ll show you some losers…
Of course you can have good chemistry with bad performances. You say so your yourself in your final remark-
“show me a team of lovable losers, and I’ll show you some losers:”…
The whole chemistry issue is a non-starter because no one knows how much it is a facror either way.
But you keep bringing up the 2010 team and PEDs- it makes none sense that these guys quit using them. None. There is absolutely no explanaion why a guy who had a great year and wasn’t caught using would have quit them.
The lovable losers is “lovable” from the fan perspective, as in the Cubs fan mantra, has nada to do with inside. As for the PEDs, I’m not going to rehash that issue. With Melky and Braun et al, everybody now and the past 15 years is under suspicion. When, why, if; it’s all a crapshoot. Certainly the 2010 Giants are not beyond suspicion. Whether they used and then quit using, just quit the game after, or still use, likely we’ll never know. And, I’m trending to not care anymore…
Sure, some 2010 Giants would be under suspician-especially by those who suspect everyone. But it’s disingenuous to cite those guys without having any explanation at all why their performance fell off after 2010. The PEDs stopped working for some unkknown reason? They’re idiots who figgered “why have a good 2011, too?”
And if you don’t want to rehash it-don’t bring it up.
I’ll bring it up or not, if and when I want to.
You are free to ignore, or argue, as you wish…
So you want to throw around accusations you can’t prove, but don’t want to “rehash” it or even apply common sense to the accusations.
I made no accusations. I said everybody in baseball, including the 2010 team, has to be under PEDs suspicion. That’s just reality, and is the POV now of many baseball commentators with more knowledge of the game than you or I. I’ll not participate in any further back and forth with you about it. I decline nowadays to carry on useless battles on this blog…
Actually, I made the point long ago about everybody being under suspicion- what I didn’t do was specifically name certain Giants players. You’ve gone on to say-amazingly- that you didn’t suspect Melky- I think you show that you suspect players who meet two criteria- they had unexpectedly superior years and you didn’t like them in the first place…
And I gave the reason we should suspect all-unfairly, I might add-because Selig has not released the 200 plus names of players known to have used but remain unidentified..
Excellent analysis Zumie; 3 games to see what the Gmen can bring. I hope the pitching is the bright spot. and some use of triples alley would be nice. After a day of rest and after the losses to AZ, our man Bruce should come up with a great clubhouse chat.
Panda, Pagan and Lincecum taking us over the top tonight. Or Belt Buster and Pence.
Any news on Nady’s hammy?
Go Gigantes!
You can thank Bochy for the team chemistry when he had that big barbecue on his ranch outside San Diego for the team.
Fuck Mark Ellis. I never did like him. He has a goofy smile and he’s a thorn in the Giants side wherever he plays.
Luis Cruz? I’m tired of hearing about his rise to The Show after being a minor league lifer. I think Lasorda rescued him out of the Tijuana League, er, I mean smuggled him in. Fuck him too.
Giants need to go nuclear on the fucking Bums, and it starts tonight.
GO GIANTS!!!! FUCK L.A.!!
Don’t sugar coat is Sundance…tell us how you REALLY FEEL. 😉
Well, professional athletes would disagree with some of you about the impact chemistry has on team performance, but differing views expressed on a blog certainly can’t hurt anything. Have at it. Later.
Pro athletes would disagree with each other on it, also. And they’ll also argue whether winning creates good chemistry or good chemistry creates the winning.And it is still impossible to prove it either way….
I see Zumiee’s thread point, but I disagree with his take on Ramirez, where he says, “Ramirez is a player on the decline.” Huh? In 38 LA games, he has a .280 BA, 10 homers, 23 runs, 37 RBI and three steals. Twin is correct when he says that the HanRam acquisition has been a definite plus for the Dodgers. Sheesh, just from a Fantasy League angle, numerous sites, such as CBS, are projecting him as a top five SS next year based upon what he has done since the All Star break. Yeah, I know Ramirez is a selfish player, but I haven’t heard any negative comments out of LA or from his team mates saying to get rid of his ass.
Regarding team chemistry in general, I think it’s over rated. It seemed like the A’s always fought in the Charlie Finley days, when they were winning championships. Same thing for the Yankess when Munson, Jackson, and Martin were feuding. I do think “chemistry” comes into play for the following baseball related activities:
1. Center fielder (and to a lesser extent, the LF and RF) not showing leadership in the outfield, e.g., calling for popups; calling the other two outfielders off; missing the cut off man; not knowing how many outs there are, etc.
2. Short Stop has to direct “traffic” in the infield, ensuring players don’t collide with other fielders trying to make the same play. When the ball is hit to the right side of the field, the shortstop covers 2nd base. Often when a base runner tries to steal 2nd the shortstop covers. Communicating how many outs there are to team mates.
3. Catcher calls the game; and related with that, works with the pitcher prior to the game to ensure they are on the same page with regard to how to pitch opposing hitters. Backing up the first baseman, etc.
This shit has nothing to do with team chemistry and performance, but might make the players happier (grin) – Going out to dinner, drinking after the game, and other extracurricular activities such as 3somes, 4somes, and moresomes with team groupies. 🙂
This is the most pumped I have been about a game in two years…a big win tonight could put all the pressure on the Dodgers to have to win tomorrow against Matty….
A woman I once pursued briefly a bit, off and on, but was quite keen on, told me she thought we just didn’t “have chemistry” to go further. I could have handled that better, had she told me that AFTER I’d gotten into her pants. 😉 Not that long thereafter she met a dude she married (I went to the wedding) who was a total douchebag, and she divorced him after about 5 suckage years. I felt sorry for her, but was always tempted to ask: So how was THAT chemistry workin’ out?…
Great story snarkk . . . I have had similar experiences and yeah, I agree that getting laid before being told to hit the road, is an effective salve emotionally and . . . umm, for the baloney poney. 🙂
LQTM…
I like the Knute Rockne bit at the end, Zumiee. Got me fired up. Think this is IT for Tim. (Of course, I’ve felt that about a dozen times already this year.)
And I like the Knute Rockne metaphor…quite accurate. And LMAO about your “I’ve felt that about a dozen times already this year”…you and everyone else, Salt. Good stuff.
thanks, Chi.
Is this chemistry thing anything like the momentum thing?
What value does momentum have in baseball?
Sometimes it makes a runner over slide the bag..
good answer love it
In regards to Han-Ram, I fully expect that about three months into next season, the implosion will come…he will be pissed with how much attention Kemp and Gonzalez are getting…
BTW, as usual, it’s a wonderful post from Zumie. Disagrreing with some of it doesn’t change that.
My take on Hanley was taking into consideration the defensive side, too. I’ve seen a lot of the Dodger games over the last several weeks, and he’s giving some things back on defense, IMO.
He is benefitting from hitting in front of Ethier, no doubt, but I’ve seen him kill some of the Dodger rallies. He doesn’t hit for average anymore; he’s up there taking big hacks, trying to go yard all the time, which is fine. Uribe did that for us in ’10 and it was very very helpful. Was Uribe in decline? Well…..sort of. He was actually tailing off at the end of ’10, although still contributing huge clutch hits. And then, of course, the next season he fell off the planet.
Well, I don’t have the exact splits since he joined the Bums, but as someone mentioned earlier, Ramirez is hitting .280 over the last 28 days. 9 bombs, and 22 RBIs. August he hit .282 and in Sept. he is hitting .316. For the year, .256, 24, and 85. I would take that production for our shortstop in a heartbeat. Sure, we all have heard what a jackass he has been, but again as someone mentioned, I have heard nothing from his teammates asking to “get his ass outta here.” He is not one of the Bum’s problems at this point, IMNSHO.
But you know what…I could really give a rats ass about the Bums. I look collectively how they are doing and all I can say is “Good Fucking Luck.” Fuck THEM!
Let’s Go Giants!
We can’t expect a stellar performance from Lincecum. Not based on history this season. If he can go 6 and give up just 2, even 3, that’s probably about the best we could expect. Hope is another thing. 7 frames and 2 runs or less would be a hope. He typically can’t locate and throws too many pitches to expect a 2011 throwback time tonite. Giants need to get out of their home hitting funk and score…
Fuck Kemp,Fuck Either,Fuck AGon,Fuck Ramirez ,Fuck Ellis,Fuck Punto,Fuck Kershaw,Fuck Beckett,Fuck Barbie,Fuck Mattingly and his fucking prissy coaches,And especially “FUCK CHEMISTRY” cause this Fucking team has none!!!!!
So Dodgers just go FUCK YOURSELVES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Don’t know much about history, don’t know much biology. Don’t know much about a science book, don’t know much about the french I took . . .
Bender the Robot tells the Dodgers….
Presented without my opinion are the second half numbers for the starting 5. The 4 numbers are W-L, ERA, WHIP, and average innings per start. I’ll only add the numbers for Zito and Vogelsong are misleading to the extent that they’re worse of late.
Bum 4-5 2.97 0.977 6.54 IP
Matt 4-2 3.65 1.170 6.6 IP
Tim 5-4 3.26 1.269 6 IP
Vogie 5-3 5.20 1.472 5.3 IP
Zito 3-2 5.40 1.345 5.5 IP
I was excited about this series awhile back, now I’m FIRED UP.
Zum – Put me in coach.
Kat – BLEEP the ever fucking shit out of em, dude.
All the games matter, but this one, really, really matters.
Let’s get out there and kick some royal blue ASS until it’s black and orange.
GO GIANTS!
Pagan CF, Scutaro 2B, Sandoval 3B, Posey 1B, Pence RF, Belt LF, Sanchez C, Crawford SS and Lincecum RHP
and the Belt/Sanchez experiment begins. I’ll be firing back the 12 yr-old scotch and getting my orange on.
Could be a LU we need to get used to — next year.
Unless Belt misplays his first two line drives…
If nothing else, this will be interesting. Good luck Brandon…show ’em you can do it!
He needs to channel the spirit of Pete Rose, who I think played 2b, lf, 3b, and 1b for the Reds over the years. And I vaguely remember Chipper Jones playing some outfield for the Braves at one point.
Well, positively bizarro, and this LU has me believing The Timmy-Posey Feud rumors. Arias, you have my simpatico.
Get Zumiee into the Giants dugout before the game to give this pep talk. STAT.
On the days they want Buster in there but not catching, this LU is the best they can put out- offensively. Petit is up, BTW, and he’s not…
I would not want to hear the management team making these decisions. First they didn’t want belt in the lineup and now they don’t want him out so our defense at three positions goes retro. This must mean they are betting offense carries the day against da blue, beckett.
eddacker shaking his head: “it is not the despair, despair I can handle. It is . . . the . . hope I can’t stand.”
Like I said yesterday- they have to keep Belt’s bat in the LU right now, even if it means LF. Look, despite some revisionist history, Huff was fine there in 2010- he butchered RF last year. If Huff can play it, Belt certainly can..
he’ll make 4 errors tonight, of course….
With Nady out, I think this LU makes the most sense offensively. And, they need offense. Belt has been hot, he can’t stay out of the LU. If they get ahead or are ahead late, then just move Blanco into LF, Belt to 1b and Buster to C for defense to lock the win down. Hector’s then out, but Whiteside’s available to catch in an emergency. But, if Belt in LF misses a line drive for a 3 run error, I disavow any approval of the move … 😉
I think they’d put Wihitehead in there before resorting to Buster if/whewn they are closing the game out.
LF is fine for Belt. I mean, him or Huff? Easy.
Aaahhh didn’t see yer 3:19, Mike . . .
IS Nady out? Day-to-day? 15 day?
That’s OK-if you’d seen it, you’d disagree 😉
Huff couldn’t possibly be there for anything but PH duty and emergency 1b. I would hope…
Last I heard Nady is D2D…but expected to miss the series. Supposedly had an MRI yesterday, but I have not seen any results…
Well, if this Timmy/Buster feud is real, then we’ll see Timmy traded this offseason. He stalled on the long term deal, and now he appears to be floundering as a starter. Buster is the face of the team now. There’s little reason to keep Tim Jim next year since he’ll bail anyway after 2013.
Might as well try and get something for him. There are plenty of teams that will take a chance on him, and give us something in return.
Certainly possible. So, who replaces Tim? Have to look at the FA list.
There’s squat for starting pitching that would be MLB ready in the SF minor leagues.
We’re seeing the past month a preview of the demise of the top notch pitching window for the Giants…
The prob with playing a Belt in LF is that he’s not used to it at all, has not played the OF even once this year; so he could end up pulling a hammy going after a frozen rope. Then, where are we?…
Pulling a hammy playing baseball has to be the gayest thing ever. I mean, really.
It’s cold out there at ATT, Chuck. I had a bad one about 10 years ago playing softball, running from first to second. Felt like I got stabbed just above the back of the knee, fell down. The bruising grew to about the size of a grapefruit, was blue green for about 6 weeks, I could barely walk the first two. Hurt like hell, too…
Oh, I’ve pulled one as well a few times. No fun, but we’re not pro ball players. These guys have nothing to do but get loose and stay in shape.
Thing is, you rarely hear of basketball playes pulling hammies. They run anout 10x more than your average baseball player on a given night.
Agreed, but sheise happens. Nady is an older player, he was used to playing in hot nights in Fresno, then came here to cold ATT to play. I don’t know what the trainers do to keep guys legs warm in between innings, if anything. I really dunno. But, when I’ve been in the stands watching and freezing my ass off, I’ve often wondered how the players avoid getting more muscle pulls than they actually get…
There are going to be plenty of pitchers out there. Hey, Bartolo Colon’s available.
Seriously, Sack Grienke’s there if they want to crack their wallets. If not him, Dan Haren? The Los Angels Angels of Angels got to dump some salary.
They aren’t going to trade Tim. They’ll fatten him up again and give it a go…
After pulling the hammy, he could trip and break his leg, which could become infected and have to be amputated, meaning there would be a real good chance he wouldn’t be better than Dunn anymore…
Just wondering Twin,if they had to amputate both of Belt’s legs,would he ever need to wear a Belt again?
In his Splash update this afternoon, though written obtsusely, looks like Schulman is finally calling bullshit the “rest” excuse for Posey not catching Lincecum. He doesn’t offer an alternative reason. If somebody reads that differently, lets hear it. If that is what he means, then why don’t the beat writers dig and find out what’s really going on — like bad chemistry? I guess that would take time away from the lunch line in the press box…
Chuck, you’ll get no argument from me in regard to trading Timmy, but you indicated, “. . . now he appears to be floundering as a starter” and per the stats Mike provided earlier, that isn’t the case. At least it hasn’t been since the All Star break.
“Tim 5-4 3.26 1.269 6 IP”
By any quantitative measure, those are quality starts.
Those numbers are OK, but they sure ain’t Timmy-from-the-past numbers. He ain’t on his game. Let’s put it like that. He’s walking guys more, and his fastball is gradually slowing down. The thing is, the Giants are not signing him to a long-term deal. Keep him and ride the string out?
No way. I have been leading the parade so to speak to trade his ass. Him and his agent bet on that outrageous contract proposal before the season and lost. I didn’t even like the Giants counter offer (which I also thought was too frickin’ generous).
My point is in all fairness, he has pitched way better since the All Star break versus the first part of the season.
Oh, I agree. I still think he’s off his feed though. I don’t know if he can bounce back like he did with his previous ministruggles. This appears to be much more serious. Like his best effort now will in no way resemble a 2010 start. Better? Sure. Even if he can shake off that creeping malaise, the Giants are not going to keep him. Unless his demands com WAY down. Or he returns to his 2010 form next year and the Giants make a midseason blockbuster deal.
I suspect – at least in the minds of Giants brass – he is auditioning for a contract as we speak. If he doesn’t perform in this last month and (if we make it) the playoffs, the Giants will decide his fate. That doesn’t necessarily mean they will trade him immediately following the season, but it does mean he’s on the clock right now insofar as his contract. Spring training and early part of next season wont mean jack about him getting a mega contract. He has to perform right now. Of course, if his demands do come down significantly – I’m talking WAY DOWN in years and money – the Giants might accommodate him.
Well, it could just be that catching Timmy is a pain in the ass with all the 55′ courve balls and such. Fuck, I don’t know, but if we go to the playoffs, I’d hate to have all these defensive moves coming into play. Timmy at least has to deal with Buster catching him in the playoffs. Zito hopefully won;t need to pitch. I don’t want to have all these stupid shifts in the postseason.
I would buy that excuse from time to time, but not EVERY Lincecum start. Crap, Posey is supposed to be, and is, an all star catcher, and Lincecum, at least was, a top tier pitcher. Did Johnny Bench bag out every time some starter with nasty stuff was starting? Either Posey’s ankle is not as good as they say, Posey has issues with Lincecum and Zito, or a combo of those, or something like that. If Posey is the catcher, and his leg is fine, he should be catching more than 3 out of every 5 starts, especially with Belt hitting for over a month now. And, your point is well taken re: the playoffs. Posey surely would catch most of the PO games, I would assume Tim would be on the roster for the odd start, but not Zito. Would Bochy start Hector in a PO game to catch Tim?…
Huh, took a look at last year, and Belt played 31 games in LF last year.
He’ll be fine.
Yeah, I have no idea what’s up with Timmy/Buster/Zito. I thought early on that one day through the rotation would be good to keep Posey fresh, but there’s no way you lose him 2 out of 5 . . .
James, I just saw that link to Two Lane Blacktop. Can’t say I’ve heard of that one. James Taylor? Dennis Wilson? Warren Oates? I think it said 1971. Got to try and find that movie. The local video store has Vanishing Point.
Netflix has it.
“Legendary musicians Dennis Wilson (The Beach Boys) and James Taylor co-star in this controversial and acclaimed film about drag-racing drifters who are more devoted to their ’55 Chevy than they are to each other. Directed by cult legend Monte Hellman, this definitive American road movie tells the story of two drivers who battle across the back roads for possession of each other’s pink slips and the affections of a mysterious young hitchhiker.
Cast:
James Taylor, Warren Oates, Dennis Wilson, Laurie Bird, Harry Dean Stanton”
Loved Harry Dean Stanton in “Paris, Texas.” Ted, chime in.
This movie kicks ass . . .
Or maybe it’s stupider than I remember.
About the Bullit car chase, it’s funny to see the Charger trying to corner on those skinny-ass 78s. The Mustang (damn, I want to get another one) is at least set up with some nice tires . . .
I always liked Warren Oates. Not another pretty face, that. In the movies, when he told somebody he’d kick their ass, he pretty much looked like he could do it. I liked him a little more, and he was probably a better actor, than Bronson. Dunno if they did, but it would have been cool if they had been in a movie together. Then, put them with that old western actor Jack Elam, and you’d have three badass dudes. The Ugly, The Uglier, and The Ugliest…
Yeah, Mr. Majestyk is one of my all time favorite movies. That, and The Mechanic. The Death Wish shit, Ehhh. Telephon is a great movie tho.
For stupid trashy car movies, don;t looke further than Death Race 2000, and (the original) Gone in 60 Seconds.
Looks like a post I made disappeared. Anyway, yeah, I really liked The Mechanic. Even though it had the “actor” Jan Michael Vincent. Dude couldn’t act out of a wet paper bag, normally. That was one of his better performances, he had it coming to him in the end…
A couple of hours to game time. Let’s roll.
Hey, leave Jack Elam out of this. Used to be a lot of people said I looked like him. 😛
Loved him in the two “Sheriff” pictures he made with James Garner.
I would have loved to be him for a while. Got to act with John Wayne and be a badass in a bunch of Westerns. I’m sure you’re way better looking, Edd…
Here he is for the first minute or so…. http://tinyurl.com/ydngasn
I’m surprised there isn’t more talk in the thread about how big this game is. It’s huge. It’s easily the biggest game of the year and it will dictate the rest of the series. And this is without question Timmy’s biggest start in nearly 2 years. I am expecting a good effort out of Beckett tonight–at least, I don’t think he’s going to implode. Beckett is a lot a stuff (negative) but he’s a big game pitcher who isn’t going to be intimidated by *the moment*. If Timmy comes out and pitches like a stud and beats Beckett that’s like winning TWO games, in my opinion. If he comes out and is casting his pitches all over the zone and Bochy has to come get him in the 4th inning it’s almost like handing the division lead to the Dodgers in terms of momentum.
I’ve got no idea or feel for how tonight is gonna play out. All I know is I haven’t looked more forward to a baseball game since playoffs, 2010……..
Link to the right to talk about your garden…
I’m looking forward to the game but just don;t consider it as big as some. Yet I agree with Craig in that I have no idea which way it goes tonight. I’m hoping for a big effort from Tim rather than counting on it.
I’m with you on that Flav.
Zum gave us a fired up thread but it shouldn’t really be needed. This is a Friday night Giants/Dodgers game, at home, in September that counts. Agreed, I’m off my rocker, but that has my blood boiling.
About an hour to game time, and I’m fired up and ready to let this thing roll.
Bring it Dodgers because you, are, going, down (PUB- palms up beckoning).
I’m nervous. I’m averting my eyes. Give me time to rev up. I’m a scaredy cat.
by the way, I am 100% totally pissed off that Bochy is doing this “Belt to LF” thing TONIGHT–first time all year he’s played LF? Hasn’t even taken fly balls in the OF since ST? All because of this idiotic tap dance that management is doing around Buster and Timmy? This whole thing has gotten way out of hand and it’s weird because Bochy didn’t strike me as the kind of guy who’s going to shy away from fixing a conflict between two players……..
We’ve weakened our defense significantly for this game and for absolutely zero reason…….
Our defense would be dominant with Posey catching, Blanco in LF and Belt at first—so dominant that I bet they would save more runs than tonight’s LU will score. No way to prove that of course, but we are significantly risking something awful happening of defense tonight….
Okay listening to everyones favorite, Mr. T on KNBR coming home and he asked if someone offered you the Giants/Dodgers series tickets (3) or the 49er ticket which one would you choose! Have at it
Kev–maybe I missed a little of that but it sounded to me like he was saying “if you could only watch one, which would you choose, the series or the NIner game.” If it were tickets there is no other answer: you go to the game in Green Bay. If it’s just pick which one you’d watch I’d go with the Giants series just for the pure entertainment value hours over the 3 quick hours of the Niner game…….
Yeah, I couldn’t tell which it was but I like my question better anyway ha ha
The other thing is I thing football is more of a watch live either on tv or in person, where as baseball I can tell what it is by listening, so I would be at the Niner game and listening to the Giants game
Granted this is a baseball blog, but for me I am a SF fan so, this would be extremely hard choice, on the one hand the Giants are in a race for the PS, but then it is opening Day for football, only 16 games
Well, I am a bit up for this game. after a 3 hour ‘nap’. Uncertainty is the new torture, the Giants have re-invented themselves in unexpected ways. I say the Dogers look at these games as primal. Where the rubber hits the road these games may deflate team chemistry and provide anti-momentum. My take is, for this serious, erm series we GOT to show up and if we are flat or counting on the baseball gods, then we may give the dogers something they can take back east with them. And then the tone in our clubhouse would make a deaf man cry.
ed, Friday night Giants/Dodgers. I know you’re up for this, it’s in your blood my friend.
Pro football is totally a TV game, IMO.
Are you kidding? I’d hit Lambeau Field and get in position to get me a piece of Greg Jennings! 🙂 🙂 🙂
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/greg-jennings-says-things-bit-grabby-during-lambeau-172313471–nfl.html
No, I’m not kidding. I’m sure there are games some would like to see in person, but if actually seeing what happens is the idea, it’s TV in a landslide.
I agree with you totally– but GB one time would be most epic.
Agree 100% Twin…However Niners-Packers in GB is a bucket list must.
I understand wanting to see Lambeau once.
Good news for my fellow out of state Giant fans…Tomorrow’s game is being televised nationally on FOX. I can’t remember the last time that happened.
I agree with Flav’s concern about tonights LU…You weaken yourself at C, 1B, and LF…All for the addition of Hector Sanchez…I still can’t fathom why Arias couldn’t play LF at least as well as Belt.
Yeah, football is meant to be watched on a big screen at home, sports bar, or a party. I have frozen my ass off at Mile High, CU, Candlestick, Stanford, and other venues. Besides being miserable, football is a terrible game to watch live, insofar as missing so much of the action, e.g., line play, close calls, etc.
That being said, I never enjoyed myself more than I did during the 49ers first Superbowl year, when I saw them beat Dallas during the regular season, albeit, I wish I could have been at the “The Catch” game for obvious reasons.
Not sure what to make of Adrian Gonzalez’s criticism of the Boston baseball scene. He’s probably mostly accurate, but I’m just not sure what it accomplishes. I guess it was just his frustration at being one of the guys singled out as not getting them to the promised land, and he always has kind of a laid-back look to him. The Boston fans took that as him not caring that much, I guess, which isn’t necessarily the case. It’s still unreal that Boston dumped him. He’s about the last guy I wanted to see back in the NL West.
Word is, he was what would on The Sopranos be termed a “rat.”
This national anthem’s gonna clock out around 25 minutes
Nice thread zumie. Though I’m a bit surprised with all the Knute Rockne references no one did a pre-game Bochy speech to the team:
Men, I was talking to one of our biggest fans earlier today just before he passed out. “Skip”, he said, “sometime when the team is up against it and the breaks are beating the boys, tell them to go out there with all they’ve got and win just one for… the Nipper. I don’t know where I’ll be then, Skip,” he said, “but I know I won’t be smelling too good that’s for sure.”
Haha that was epic.
Craig, per your 5:35 and 5:37, see my 8:15. Early posts on this thread discussed this game tonight. Some Flappers think this is a must win game (myself included) for both Tim and the team, others not, but everyone is pumped for it. What really matters is that the team is pumped for it. Coming out flat tonight would be a very bad sign, but coming out guns-a-blazin’ would prevent a 3-game skid and set the tone for the rest of the month, not just this series. And yeah, Belt in LF NOW makes little sense and so very much weakens the infield defense. Another key to this game, providing it’s not a blow-out one way or the other, is how Bochy uses the ‘pen, last seen in a state of confusion, IMO… Here’s hoping it all falls together very sweetly tonight.
Sorry, I just scanned the thread (worked all day) and I didn’t see you post. To me, I was just surprised that the thread wasn’t dominated by the gravity of tonight’s game.
Agree. Gravity is a good word for it. 99% of the time, I’m feeling fairly light and breezy about the team; must confess to not being very at peace at the moment. A good game from Tim and just enough offense at key times will bring back that peaceful easy feelin’……
Just got home about 10 minutes ago. I swear as soon as I walked out of my office about an hour ago 4 guys and 3 girls walked right by me on Sansome Street in full Dodger gear on their way to the park. It’s an omen. Only I don’t know if it’s good or bad
got my game face on, game snacks ready, play ball!!!
Game Time!!
No Cruz tonight, I’m surprised. Adam Kennedy? Wasn’t he on that ’02 Angels team? Is Uribe even on the roster?
Cruz’ green card expired.
Orange Friday, woo hoo
Bochy goes with the we need to rest Posey – day game tomorrow
Tight zone tonight?
And the walk.
See ya, lads. I’m off to watch this at a bar
animal!
What is up with the empty seats behind HP? Dodger fans buy ‘Em?
I just got a “server maintenance” error message. MEGA BIG FLAVOR SHADY _do_not_work on the server during a game??
I’m not. I got that on my ph too. Hope wordpress tighten’s up their game quickly
Put the screwdriver down, big fella,
hey, are those empty easts the ones with blue shirts in em now?
especially this game
Belt!!
He wuz robbed.
That Beckett sure is a smug looking, fat checked motherfucker, isn’t he?
The best description of that fuck I’ve ever heard…
He’s actually a brilliant addition to this rivalry
Hector doing a heck of a job