Post Basking: Broken and Beaten
Recently, someone made a comment about not wanting the Giants to turn out to be the worst “next year” World Series champion of all time. I concur. I don’t know what that record is. If you exclude the Marlins (and you have to since they were completely dismantled after their WS win) I think it’s impossible to not at least consider that this team is the worst World Series follow-up team of all time. And that is irritating on many different levels. I don’t want them being some trivia answer from Elias. Its incomprehensible for me to consider that they’ve gone from best to worst in less than a full season. And make no mistake about it, this is the worst team in baseball. Three teams have worse records than they do. One of those teams, Miami, kicked our ass 3 out of 4 back in June. The Cubs just swept us in our park. There was exactly one team that won less games than the Giants did in June (The White Sox). Exactly one team has won less games than the Giants have in July (The Astros). Answer honestly, do any of you think we could beat either of those teams in a 4 game series right now? I don’t.
Watch the interview with Bochy post game from yesterday. I have NEVER seen a more beaten down manager in the history of interviews. His body language is pathetic:
http://www.csnbayarea.com/blog/andrew-baggarly/bochy-wont-commit-zito-wont-rush-vogelsong
If the manager looks and acts like this how could you possible expect the players to come out with ANY life at all?
I can’t even recall what a knowing dude head nod looks like, much less how to do it…….
A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball 
Totally agree with you. I’ll be bummed. As if I am not bummed enough already. I was thinking about this on the way in this morning. Despite the injuries does this total collapse expose Sabean’s approach? It certainly highlights the lack of player development.
Regarding Bochy. He needs to buck up and stop with the slack shoulders and moping. He needs to be more aggressive at the mic. We expect him to do more damage with the opportunities he’s given.
Congratulations for your very interesting website on the SF Giants. Ciao!
Gonna say a few things. First off, an apology for blasting off yesterday at Snarrk. The frustration level of the last 2 months got the best of me. It started when the Gloating rooster started gloating a couple weeks ago after a “forever” hiatus. I told him to go fuck himself when he showed up the first day.
I don’t think there is anybody here who thought this season would go the way its going, so why would management think that. They brought back a championship team everyone thought would be competitive. In fact, they overpaid some guys to do so.
I’m just gonna say its hard for me to kick them when they’re down, considering the joy they brought the last few years.
I read the comments here almost daily. If I don’t have anything new to add, or I disagree with what I read, I don’t comment anymore to avoid conflict.
When you guys diss on management, without knowing what goes on behind the doors, or in the meeting rooms, or the trainers room, it kind of irritating. The club and organization feels a lot worse about whats happening than we do. Believe it or not.
Insofar as I am concerned, apology accepted wswins. Glad to see you come back and post! 🙂
Hey, I felt the same way, and let snarkk know as much. As I said yesterday, no one is right or wrong in their expectations for the team. We may just have a different spin than the next guy.
As Blade said, I am glad to see you back (I remember you posting here and on the Splash as “wswinb4igo.”
Anyway, I totally concur on your spin on management. We have no idea what is being discussed, what the parameters (money, etc.) are around those discussions. I am going to give them the benefit of the doubt. If someone disagrees with that, and wants to hang it on management, that is their prerogative…we can simply agree to disagree.
good to see you back; hope you saw my comment yesterday
I think it is to his credit that Bochy doesn’t call his guys out in public and rant and rave. I think he just can’t believe what he is seeing, and I’ve heard him use the expression, “This isn’t who we are.” Yelling and screaming like billy martin and tossing spreads or going Ortiz on the dugout is just stuff I don’t believe in.
He has tried a number of different players in different spots, with little success. Tanaka and Perez gave the team a brief spark that was extinguished all too quickly. He also shoved the Groper, someone I wasn’t sure even belonged on the team to begin with, into the rotation and he’s been fine. But the players either make the plays or they don’t, and Bochy doesn’t have a bat in his hands.
Planning a LU without Posey in the middle of it, even though he too is slumping, is tough. I think SF has to be at least considering what they are going to do with him, because it’s obvious he needs to be an everyday, as in 162, player. As a C, that isn’t going to happen, and his occasional forays at 1b don’t help the team defense. so I think something has to give there, and it will affect off season moves.
I’m hoping Timmy, Hunter, Javier, and whoever else get traded just so they can be in the playoffs this season. It would be cool to see those guys in the playoffs for somebody.
Tim and Javier I can see…Hunter, absolutely not (not unless they got a BOATLOAD in return). No way in hell I want to see the team going into next year needing TWO OFers. Take a look at the FA OFers…it is pretty slim pickings. I think they need to make every effort to bring Pence back (and he has publicly said many times he wants to come back).
It doesn’t bother me if people want to talk about the 2013 Giants being the biggest post-champion collapse of all time. To talk about the collapse, they have to remind people that the Giants won the World Series in 2012.
Good point, Z.
Anyway, worst follow-up seasons after winning it all? Here’s the Top 10:
1. ’98 Marlins 54-108. I agree with Flav, this shouldn’t really count since the Marlins made no effort whatsoever to try and repeat.
2. ’91 Reds 74-88.
3. ’18 White Sox 57-67 (although who knows what was going on with the team soon to be known as the Black Sox).
4. ’32 Cardinals 72-82
5. ’86 Royals 76-86
6. ’67 Orioles 76-85
7. 2003 Angels 77-85
8. ’19 Red Sox 66-71
9. ’89 Dodgers 79-83
10. 2007 Cardinals 78-84
So there it is. The Giants now have a goal: 55 wins to avoid being #1, and 75 wins to beat out a team that was actually trying. That means they’ll have to play about .500 just to match the ’91 Reds. Maybe this can motivate them, because nothing else seems to be working.
’89 Dodgers should be 77-83.
Interesting. Thanks for the list.
yes, thanks for compiling the list and giving us something to *shoot* for
Thanks for sharing the list, Mac.
The big disappointment this season is that the Giants didn’t “defend the crown.” They didn’t even come close to defending the DIVISION. They handed the division over.
Funny thing is they have played these teams in the division tough for most part. They are 8-4 vs. Dbax, and pounded the Pads last time they went down there. I would have thought either of those last 2 series would have been springboard to better things, but it hasn’t happened.
All the times we have seen a Giant blast one at ATT that wound up being caught, you would think the hitters would be happier on the road, esp in a warm weather hitter friendly place like Philly is. Couple more days to see if something snaps them out of it.
Our SF Giants. oh how the mighty have fallen. This shows exactly why it is so hard to win the WS. Especially when you look at the way they won it last year. The only thing I don’t like about this year is the lack of competitiveness. No fire in the eyes, dead looks. whatever you want to call it. Would any of you want to trade places with a Cubs fan?? I think not. I am filing this year with all the other bad years the Giants have had. I can at least say that my team has won Two WS!! and they won both in dramatic fashion. I also look at the Nationals who put their best pitcher on the shelf because they wanted him healthy for this year. Last I looked they are in third place. And probably will not make the playoffs. I don’t want to see the Giants sell the future for trying to make the playoffs this year. As far as I am concerned this is just a shitty year for the Giants. We will see what next year brings, and the year after that, and so on and so forth. Go Giants
BF raises a good issue. A timely one. I’ve mentioned it before. Lots of fans don’t want to hear this. Because Bochy reached near sainthood last post-season with a run of managing moves for the ages. But, like I’ve said about Sabean, it’s only fair that if you get the credit, you’ve got to take the heat. No, Bochy doesn’t play. He doesn’t throw the ball, or hit the ball. But, he’s the captain of the ship. Sabean built the ship. Bochy captains it. And, this ship has run aground. He’s been on the bridge for this grounding, at least I assume he’s not been below decks and letting first mate Wotus run the ship in dangerous shoals. What blame does Bochy have in this debacle? And, it has been a debacle, as BF says. He has to get some of it. Because if he doesn’t, why is he there? I don’t know what’s going on in that clubhouse. As usual, the local beat scribes are near worthless on meaningful inside dope. But, it can’t be good. Whatever Bochy’s been doing, it’s been a colossal failure going on 3 months. If Bochy didn’t have the earned capital of 2 WS rings in 3 years, obviously, most teams would have fired his ass for 3 months of this slide, whether he deserved it or not. And, this has happened with much the same team he had last post-season. You can’t blame injuries any more. Pagan is out, but everybody else has been manning the ship pretty much intact for quite a while now. Pablo, Posey, Pence, all the infield. It’s there. The pitching is obviously off last year, but other than Zito, its been more than decent, especially recently. Still, with better pitching you can’t win playing the horrid ball these guys have been playing. The mental errors, base running gaffes, lackluster energy and effort, that reflects badly on management. I reject this Krukow “they’re gassed” business. Bullshit. This is professional baseball. Were Bench and Morgan and Rose “gassed” when they won the second of two titles in a row? Hell, I’m not even asking for another title. I’m just asking to be competitive, to not play embarrassing ball. To not get swept at home by the fucking Cubs, and look horrible doing it. If you don’t deliver on your job or to your client, what do you think the reaction is if you tell your boss or client, “Sorry, I was gassed”. Yeah, a death stare. This team has run aground and is taking on a ton of water. If Bochy is a hall of fame manager, he needs to start hall of faming a bailing effort, pronto. I don’t want my team to be a laughingstock of all time “first to worst” trivia questions…
mmm. motivation is a tough thing at this level, esp given how much money a lot of these guys make. Bochy has tried to not let guys get down by platooning, the idea being if a guy is struggling vs. LHP, then give him a day off and then put him back in the LU where he is more comfortable. This was the plan for blanco/torres until Pagan got hurt, and he has done it with Crawford (.200 vs. LHP) and Belt.
The results, of course, haven’t been good. bochy left Belt in the other day he struck out 4 times. Abreu is not a good defensive player, and Arias hasn’t provided pop like he did in past. Torres yesterday had a double and a walk, got SF early lead and then scored to tie it up after Zito gave up 2.
Blanco and Torres are what they are–they weren’t supposed to be everyday players, just complimentary ones. No one else Bochy has played in the OF has done much, including Frenchy. Sabean isn’t going to acquire Trout today either, so Bochy has what he has. I don’t think fining guys for baserunning blunders like Belt last week or for errors in the field is going to accomplish much–IF/OF practice on a regular basis, I do. He can’t exactly sit the whole team, and I don’t want to see Fresno Giants at every position.
Being a little facetious here, if some Grizzlies can play a clean, hard game, and still lose, I’d rather see that than the brand of horsemanure ball we’ve seen since Mid May. BTW, Bochy is the last guy I give credit to for pumping up and supporting Belt. He’s publicly dissed the kid more than once, and jacked him around so much his head’s on a swivel, so letting him get a golden sombrero doesn’t impress me at all as great personnel management. Bochy’s known as a player’s manager. Fine. But, a great manager does different things under different circumstances. What he’s been doing hasn’t been working to field at minimum, a group that even looks like they give a shit out there…
I agree with you to a point. Yes, Sabean owns part of the blame. Yes, Bochy does too. But I will stand with my original analysis (and it will not change) that the brundt of this tailspin is on the players.
And I do believe that injuries did, and still do play a part in it. Voglesong is not back. Panda was knocking the cover off the fucking ball (and hitting everything from wormburners to the letters) before he got hurt. And while you can (acurately) say that many of the OFers had better stats than Pagan, I still think he brought a lot of “intangibles” to the table, and that his loss is bigger than most here think it is.
Anyway, the players own most of this clusterfuck IMO.
Personally I would like to see Scutaro, Lopez and Lincecum moved with Pence staying. I realize they don’t have anyone to replace at 2b internally but maybe trade him to Texas for Kinsler and get younger at 2b. Or make a run at Cano in the off season but I doub they will shell out that kind of dough. Especially if they want to keep Pence, which I am not 100% behind but Sabean and Bochy love the guy and his WWF type entrance when he was aquired last year was pretty cool. I don’t know. Haven’t thought it through but the Giants need to get stronger defensively up the middle and to me Scutaro is the definition of an empty .300 BA.
I’ve been reading a new book called “The DiMaggios,” about the three major league brothers. One of the many interesting things in the book is that the championship bonus money for winning the Pacific Coast League championship in the early days was more than the winning major league team got for winning the World Series.
I’ll preface my comment by saying that I have said some of the most stupid and imbecilic things on this blog, where in some instances, I might have offended someone. Consequently, I have apologized (I hope I have in all situations, but perhaps I haven’t. My bad if I didn’t). Fortunately, you guys have forgiven the dumb things I have said. Equally important, Flav has allowed me to continue posting here . . .
So when someone apologizes – as wswins has done earlier this morning – I think it should be noted. In my book, that takes courage and humility to be able to recognize when you are wrong. In any event, I’ve said my peace. Go Giants!
I agree with that 100% (and I too have made my share of dumbass comments) Blade.
“Nothing succeeds like success.”, wait, I read dumbass comments as Dumas comments.
OK, dumbass comment, “When you swim in a creek, and an eel bites your cheek… that’s a Moray”.
One of the things I enjoyed about first of Phil Jackson books was his unconventional approach to teamwork and motivation, often centered around a religious theme—those being native American and Soto Zen. I think this works for a lot of sports, tho it is tough to get hardened professionals to accept it.
You have to block every thing out and *just play*. You can’t worry about what jumbotron shows your BA or youir ERA to be–you focus on what the situation is and hit, pitch and field your position. With failure such a large part of baseball, you can’t keep that stuff in your head, it will blow up your concentration on everything else and doom you.
Teamwork has to be unselfish and unconditional–you could see Z pissing into his glove the other day when Pence dropped a fly ball. Later Pence made a diving catch to save his ass. A guy who throws away a DP ball is still your teammate, and you are counting on him to make the next play or get a knock when he is at bat.
I think bochy’s approach is as sound as it can be in hard times–he is appealing to their sense of pride as mlers. Look in the mirror, pick yourself up and play smarter and harder to get the teams out of its collective doldrums; do whatever you can to help the team win. But you can’t do that until you clear your head of all the other shit, where you are in standings, etc., and just play.
You know what I want? I just want a win tonight. I don’t care how. Gaudin can throw a damn perfect game. He can allow 7 earnies in the first, and they come back to win 8-7. He can grope a ball chick in between innings (just kidding). Or anything in between. I don’t care. I just want a win to stop this bullshit and slow down the handwringing I’m doing, we’re all doing. The Phills suck balls. So do we. But, we need to get a win. Let’s get one…
Yeah Flav,did see Bochy post interview, he was beatin down like Dan Akyrod in Trading Places, with nothin to say that would leave this team with any reason to play hard for him anymore.a
Worst Fist Pump
http://tinyurl.com/lgj8l5e
That is funny. Lucky he didn’t tear his ACL, too…
Padres acquired Ian Kennedy. Hopefully this show Sabean that you can buy something even if you’re out of it.
Pence has basically told Sabean he’ll come back to the Giants if they trade him. Sure, there’s no guarantee in that. And, other teams obviously will now be wary from hearing that. But, WTF? There’s no guarantee some idiotic team or owner won’t waive incredible dough and contract years in front of Pence, and he’s gone anyway. And all we get is a no-name, high compensatory pick that still has NO present value at the MLB level. None. You can’t even trade the pick for a player. So, Pence playing in RF to play out the string just makes very little sense to me, when a trade has concrete upside, and the other options are Crapshoot City…
Holding a hard line with what they’ll take for Pence and Lincecum and make qualifying offers this winter if they aren’t traded now is the wise decision. The idea that they should just take what they can now is bad thinking. IMO.
As to the Kennedy trade, the Dback GM is an idiot. Hope we can find a like minded nincompoop in a deal for Lopez…
I agree.
so do I, agree, that is
I didn’t say take what they can get. That means Sabes has no balls as a negotiator. Maybe that’s true, but I would hope not. It looks like the predicable has happened. NOTHING. So, we’ll see about the offseason. At best, if they leave the Giants get a pick for each of them that won’t help the team for 4 years, if ever. Figuring on getting two Buster Poseys isn’t going to happen. IMO, this non-move is not “wise”, given the shape this team and farm system is in…
I wasn’t responding to your comment, Snarrk..
But a non-move is better than making a stupid trade. And they might keep at least Pence and Lopez. Despite the renewed doomerism here, this is not a team in need of an overhaul.
When you’re 11 games out of the lead in a dogmeat division, and 13 games below .500 at August 1, you’re lousy. You need to re-tool…
I must say, I’ve never seen you more engaged than now, Snarkk. Really have to go now, will you be watching the game? Do you have a garden, maybe you can weed out the tired, bolting greens instead ? In any case, enjoy the rest of your day..
I’m engaged because this fall from grace is just mind boggling to me. From the mountaintop, this fall is startling. After 2010, they were very competitive in 2011, even with losing Posey. They were not only competitive, they were in it to nearly the end. This, this, whatever this is, is an embarrassment. It shouldn’t, but it’s almost, almost to the point of sullying the joy of October 2012 for me…
“I don’t need to hear more about farm system rankings. I’ve seen them. They’re all bad. It’s unanimous. ” They rank from middle of the pack to the bottom. You chose the Bleacher Report, a totally worthless source. But what’s unanimous is that you DON’T make a trade if it doesn’t improve the team and/or system. Without knowing what the offers were, it’s impossible to make the assertions you’ve made. Despite some mistakes, Sabean’s record over the last few years is good enough for me to trust his judgement.
Well, I don’t think they need to re-tool. The deadline has passed, and no moves for the Giants. Indications are they will make qualifying offers to Tim and Pence, and will also try to work out a new deal with Lopez.
With only two pitchers locked-up for next year, Tim could be a piece of the rotation for next year…maybe more. Vogelsong is an option, too. They will need a starter or two, any way you slice it.
If Pence inks a new deal, they will need a LFer. To me, the Blanco/Torres/Tanaka (the list is fucking endless) experiment was an utter failure.
But otherwise, I think most guys just are scuffling hard.
My point is they need to make a few moves, but I don’t think the team needs to be totally re-tooled.
Right now, Sabes better be holding up a coupla teams with a .38 special iPhone for as much as he can get for Lopez. That’s the minimum I expect out of this. Damn shame, too. It’ll be good to get player(s) we need, but I just now got to the point where I don’t call him Gomez…
RHer, no Belt. OK, he’s been struggling- his OPS this month is one point below Posey’s 😉
But they’ye still on the Pill ? If they want to bail on Belt, just move Posey to first for good and take a look at Monell. Pill is a fucking waste of time. And no, I don’t give flying fuck what Brett Bilko does today, and neither does any sentient observer..
Enjoy the game, I’m out..
1. Gregor Blanco (L) CF
2. Marco Scutaro (R) 2B
3. Pablo Sandoval (S) 3B
4. Buster Posey (R) C
5. Hunter Pence (R) RF
6. Brett Pill (R) 1B
7. Roger Kieschnick (L) LF
8. Brandon Crawford (L) SS
9. Chad Gaudin (R) P
Bud Norris traded to the Orioles for a minor leaguer? As Bochy continues napping.
2 minor leaguers. They were 5/6 ranked in O’s system. O’s have a better system than we do so that would probably translate to our 3rd best prospects
The list compiled by Macdog makes me think this post-Series crash is not as rare as I’d thought. Anyway, have not seen the Bochy clip, yet. Not sure I can stomach it. Bochy will always hold a dear place in my heart, BUT if what you say about defeatism is true, then maybe a change is in order. It’s only July 31. Show some pride, fer Gawd’s sake. And have some fun. Get some backbone and don’t be the Monterey Jellyfish.
I said about a month ago that Boch might not make it to the end of the season. Rash? Sure. But Jesus, after seeing that interview I think it may not be a bad idea. He’s more animated in his sleep.
Fuck me. I’m hearing they didn’t even trade Lopez. What? He is a vestigial organ on this team. He has no role on a loser. He is a fuckin FREE AGENT in 60 days. If they got a bag of balls for him, that’s a plus. Unfuckingbelievable. What front office in its right mind does not trade Lopez in this situation? I’m thinking other GMs don’t want to deal with Sabean. It makes absolutely no sense otherwise. None…
Agreed…I kept hearing that Sabean was holding out for a top prospect? For Lopez?
When the farm is as bare as ours, you have to cast a wide net. There may be truth to that theory Snarkk…I think we both mentioned that several years ago.
That was when the story came out that multiple GMs said Sabes never returned their calls. That he was hard to get a hold of, hard to deal with. He poo poohed it, said something like it was sour grapes or he can’t return every call of every dick and harry with a stoopid proposal. Well, I’m thinking it was right, and the GMs of baseball have Sabean at the bottom of the rollodex now…
Good memory! I had forgotten what started the discussion, but that was it.
He is a free agent and the story out already is that the team will work on a new contract for next year. Obviously, they were not going to give him away, as he plays into the design for next year, and possibly beyond.
I’m telling you guys, the Giants ain’t dead, the fat lady hasn’t sung, the POTUS says they’re a second half team and… Humm Baby. I think we should start with a win today. Come on Giants, baby needs a new pair of shoes.
OK that’s all the positive I’ve got.
I am with you, Clown!
As I said after the 2010 WS, I could live the rest of my life in peace with one chanpionship. And then last year really was the most improbable path to championship by our comeback wins against the Reds and Cards and then sweeping the Tigers with Panda hitting 3 homers in one game….we will never see such a run again I think in our lifetimes with the Giants.
As I described on Monday, that success has given me an unexpected passitivity with the daily grind of a baseball season.
I will never utter a Sabean/Bochy criticism with any gusto (I may still bitch when Bochy fails to walk a batter to set up a frickin double-play;) – that was for Twin)…
What is apparent is that the 2012 Giants pulled off one of the most improbable World Series victories in baseball history. It was a magical team of destiny rather than a team of great players from top to bottom if that makes sense.
So seeing them flounder with essentially the same pieces is not really that surprising. Hell we won a world series with Edgar Renteria, Juan Uribe and Pat Burrell as starters.
So time to rebuild and rebuild our farm system…I would like to see Gary Brown at some point and would still like to see Jacoby Ellsbury leading off next year, Pagan in left and Pence in right…
It’s bad enough this team is in the toilet. But, to see a front office that isn’t even trying, is just beyond words crazy. I’m serious, I think other GMs must not want to deal with Sabean. He’s saying the offers were “embarrassing”? How? Why? Let’s hear what they were. You’re telling me NOTHING offered for Lopez would have helped the organization? When the only loss is the services of a guy, soon to be a Free Agent, that throws to 1 or 2 batters every 2 or 3 days, maybe — that is, IF the team were a contender? When is the last game Lopez pitched this season, let alone a game that meant something? He’s a worthless luxury on a loser team playing out the string. On a contender, he’s a gem that with a critical out might win you a playoff series. Given that, you still can’t or refuse to make ANY deal? Absolutely mind boggling…
They may keep Pence and Lopez- even Tim- but for sure you don’t know that they won’t. Despite the highly amusing diaper wringing just months after our 2nd WS win, this is not a team in need of an overhaul, they’ll need a couple pieces and will have plenty of money to get them. When I have more time I’ll talk about farm system rankings, BTW. In an another aside, Sabean and Beane, over the last 15 years, have been nearly identical in “bang for the buck”, averaging 2.6 million per win.
I don’t need to hear more about farm system rankings. I’ve seen them. They’re all bad. It’s unanimous. More importantly, I’ve SEEN our farm system’s contributions to the big club this year. So far, they’ve proven they’re not even close to MLB material, and validate the rankings. I don’t know whether SF willl keep anybody that’s a pending FA. That’s up more to the player than to the team, since other teams have a chance to throw money and years at them. That’s why they should have traded these guys NOW. This season is lost, there is no reason to keep these pending FAs, when they COULD sign them in the offseason anyway, after getting known quantities in return, instead of some high, but still crapshoot draft choices. I’m done, I’m so pissed off about this Lopez thing I need to get out before I repeat myself again and again. Later…
I’am with ya Snarkk…I have already hit the Jack and the soda and it’s not even five here in Houston…I think I was the first to suggest the Giants could be sellers over a month ago and most here (you were the exception) thought I was crazy…Turns out we weren’t sellers after all.
They didn’t sell- as I said they wouldn’t-I’ve said they might not sell *or* buy if they fell out of it because they don’t need rebuilding. Sabean was willing to deal only it the offers were ones he couldn’t refuse. It’s encouraging for SF fans that he’s thinking like I do 😉
snarkk – do you have a fly on the wall calling in the details? Really…how the hell do you know they are not trying? I am sure Sabean entertained offers, but none met his and the management team’s criteria.
I agree with Michael (and a few others)…this team needs a couple of pieces here and there…they DO NOT need an overhaul.
I think you are over-reacting…but that is just my opinion. We all have our right to voice them, and again…I respect yours, but disagree with most of your rant.
When Sabean says the trade offers were “embarrassing,” he is not going to publicly mention any GM, club, or player specifically. For better or worse, these are his fellow brethren (GMs) and he will have to deal with them in the future. It makes no sense to specifically insult any of them in the news media.
In my opinion, none of us know exactly what transpired during the trade deadline period. In short, no deal may have been a good deal. Again, only my opinion, but I am glad Sabean is running the show then some of the clowns we have had in the past.
Last but not least, Peter (Giant Head) reminded us of something that we should never forget – “What is apparent is that the 2012 Giants pulled off one of the most improbable World Series victories in baseball history. It was a magical team of destiny rather than a team of great players from top to bottom if that makes sense.” and “Hell we won a world series (2010) with Edgar Renteria, Juan Uribe and Pat Burrell as starters.”
Think about that for a second, especially in regard to the 2012 Giants . . . The Rockies “Rocktober” isn’t as improbable and as miraculous as our 2012 playoff run and World Series championship we achieved. Plus, our run resulted in a World Series championship. Theirs? Meh.
Well then he never should have used the word “embarrassing” to begin with….That’s a pretty passive aggressive way of doing business. Of course it’s no more embarrassing then asking for a clubs top prospect for Lopez.
I read that he was asking for a MLB ready starting pitcher who was controllable.In light of the AZ-SD trade, that’s not as bizarre as it might seem. I didn’t see that he wanted a team’s top prospect.
I cannot find the article now, but supposedly, one of the deals that Sabean was trying to work in a Lopez trade was for one of the Tribe’s top pitching prospects. Cleveland wouldn’t bite.
Obviously, the team’s brain trust thinks that Pence, Lincecum, and Lopez can be viable pieces in the future, and they were not going to “give them away.”
I trust Sabean and crew to make the right calls, so I am down with them standing pat at the deadline.
Scott Downs postseason record: 0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0
Joe Thatcher postseason record:0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0
Javier’s postseason success demanded that Sabean set a high bar.
that’s totally true. He’s got to go to Winter Meetings and deal with these fellow GM’s down the road. I can’t imagine whoever offered him a trade proposal for Lopez feels too much respect from Sabes for mocking his offer(s).
The Angels and Braves even showed Sabean what Lopez is worth— a couple of days ago the Angels traded lefty specialist Scott Downs to Atlanta for a 25 year old former first round draft pick reliever who hasn’t panned out but who’s having a nice year in AAA.
GMs always bad mouth the winter meetings, the deadline offers, etc, That’s SOP. No one gives a shit about it.
I’m sorry, but my left hand was much better today. And deadline day is too big a day to miss.
Sandbagger;)
A 4 run lead? In the 1st? Pinch me.
Dang good first inning.
Just got home and caught up– I admit to having a soft spot for the debut kids who bring their families in for the game. Kieshnick looked pretty bad on those first 2 swings- very happy for him and his fam
I was calling for Kieschnick a month ago. 🙂
I was calling for Kieschnick a month ago. 🙂
Alright- how did that happen? 🙂
Oops.
“Rich Doobie” — one of the great pitching coach names of all time. Maybe he’s bringing some of the kind out there to chill Kendrick out.
Brett pill, doing shit that others haven’t. Nice to see
Pill! World Series here we come . . . 😉
Well, and this is fuckin bipolar of me, but as 2011 demonstrated, teams in the lead can collapse (we have no danger of being confused for a team in the lead). So, imagine how fuckin amazing it would be if we did mount a comeback. (Twin, I will let you brag with a zillion told you so’s.) Hell, I’d get excited WITH JUST ONE SMACKDOWN WIN TONIGHT. Gotta start somewhere.
What a fantastic, refreshing game. Maybe This will put a little pep in Bochy’s step
Agree. Things we haven’t seen in weeks.
I suppose there’s always good news and bad news about most things. That Sabean didn’t just give players away is good news. That the team didn’t get any kind of player that could help now or next year is somewhat odd, but i’d guess that means Sabean would rather be a bit more busy in the off-season finding the missing pieces. What bothers me most about the free fall for the past 2 months (besides it having virtually no explanation) is that maybe a lot of the outsiders who never gave the Giants credit were right — the team was lucky, and the proof is that basically the same cast of characters who won it all are sucking now, less than a year after winning it all. Maybe this collection of players really just is not that good. They certainly haven’t been for more than 2 months. But some possible good news (about the state of the team) is that all the players who were rumored to be trade options but who weren’t traded were all very happy to still be on the Giants. That says something. Now if they would just start performing as we all know (or.. think) they can….
you said what I was trying to say, but more eloquently
Mind boggling. A rout.
Not a rout, yet. I could not relax even when we were beating the Cards 9-0 in the pennant clincher. So, it’s not a rout unless we go ahead 14-1. In the 9th.
I have the Philly feed and they continue to insult us, e.g., “A week worth of runs for the Giants.” Fuck them. We can make fun of our red haired clumsy kid, but the neighbors can’t.
Hahahaa. Put so well, Steve. Phuckyall, Cheesesteakville! Just be happy I’m not texting at the Academy of Music in the midst of a Balanchine-choreographed pas-de-deux, biatches!
😉
Just as I was reading your response, the Philly announcer pointed out the Phillie Phanatic (mascot) sitting on a woman that had a Tim Lincecum jersey on. Too funny.
Odd innings, good.
I have to think that the fact the team is intact let the guys breathe a sigh of relief, enabling them to play looser. But we all know deals can still happen. We got Cody Ross AFTER the non-waiver deadline.
Yes, it could happen.
New post on my blog . . . Short, short video of a fumarole.
http://aroundtheworldwithblade.wordpress.com/2013/07/31/fumaroles-at-yellowstone-national-park-montana/
I have often in my travels around the US (when I’m here) heard a LOT of opposing teams’ announcers diss the Giants. I guess that’s what I meant in my 5:05 post, about the external nay-sayers, and damn, don’t they all feel justified now that the team seems to officially suck this year. But yeah, Steve: any one of us could jokingly say here that the 7 runs is indeed a week’s worth of runs for this team, but Phils’ announcers? No, they can’t say that. :-p
Other than Zito, the starting pitching has been good lately. So, Vogie takes Zito’s spot in the rotation? Zito’s not worth much in the bullpen, but it seems the likely scenario. They wouldn’t just flat-out cut Zito; they wouldn’t do that to him after what he did for them last season.
Anyone see Mark Ellis’ walk-off hit last night? For quite a while, the Dodgers have had the most violent celebrations. They now tear the jersey off the guy who gets the hit as they pummel him, and they pull the winning run-scorer to the ground.
It’s hard to see how it can get any stupider.
My hunch [and HOPE] is that the Dodgers have peaked.
If Pill goes on a tear, would they be foolish enough to ditch Belt?
it would be foolish bc despite the error the other night, he is a very good defender. Maybe as good as Ishi. But I don’t see enough games to know for sure.
Bochy was pretty ticked off at Belt in that “Buckner” game. On the baserunning gaffe, Bochy just turned and walked away before Belt got to the dugout.
Bochy has turned away from Belt in the dugout even when he’s had big hits.
Rich Doobie is good Flav,but ive always liked Dick Pole better.
When he would go out to talk to a pitcher,the pitcher usually thought they were getting the “Shaft”
🙂
Usually I don’t care to see the folks behind home, but tonight I keep trying to figure out if the lady with the nice rack is attractive or not.
I was going to post something similar about a half hour ago but I’ve been too distracted by the spectacular rack.
since I can’t get the game, take a phuckin screen shot off the TV and post here…pronto!!!! I’ll decide!
um, doesn’t the rack make her attractive in and of itself? that’s my existential query.
If Pill goes on a tear (doubtful) I’d be 100% behind sitting Belt so he can play. This league is about production, not OPS and other stats. Belt has had his opportunities this year and he’s literally swung and missed at them. How many k’s does he have this year?
He had five in an extra-inning game. I remember that.
gawd almighty, that was the night of eternal doom; thanks for the reminder
Great. Panda hurt again. Shocker
They say he’ll be back tomorrow or the next day. No shocker there- he’s a gamer- not to mention their best RBI guy over the last month.
Sandoval’s hurt again. It might get to where they just shut him down for the rest of the season.
what happened?
Running out an infield hit, he hit firstbase awkwardly and hurt his foot. I don’t know if it’s the one hurt earlier in the season.
Thanks. Put my guy Arias in there for a month.
I just saw where Homer [speaking of pitcher’s names] “Not George” Bailey is 6 and TEN. Ten losses?
It’s unreal. That guy looked like the best pitcher ever when he no hit us. And his stuff is legit. What gives? Who’s hitting this dude?
Pill belted that one… I mean, he got all of it.
Belt who?
somebody just Tweeted R.I.P. @bbelt9. Ouch. Way to go, Mr. PharmaDinger!
I hope they save some of this shit for the rest of the road trip.
blade, I keep trying to tell ya, they are just gearing up.
Craw, Brandon that one… I mean, he got all of it.
I don’t care that Pill isn’t a prospect. I love him for 6 hits (and counting) in 2 games and giving this Giants fan a chance smile
I’ll take it/him/them whateveh.
They are wasting everybody’s time with Pill. Craig knows that. I knew that there would be some ridiculous comments if Pill had a good game. On the other hand, Kieschnick has some promise- he’s had his progress impeded by some injuries. But Pill has already shown he’s a suspect, not a prospect.
Sorry, but a game or two has not suddenly elevated Pill to a potential regular. If the idea is to bail on Belt, they’ll need to make a trade or move Posey there.
But the plan is for Belt to back in there soon. Even with his problem witth Belt and Belt’s slump, Bochy is too smart to think that Pill has any shot at being the regular 1st baseman. If it’s not to be Belt , it will be Posey or someone from outside.
actually, you don’t know if Pill is going to be any good or not. None of us do. I don’t think he’s a prospect, I’m on record as saying that. But you didn’t think Crawford was a prospect and he’s here to stay. We are all wrong from time to time. Pill playing every day is important from an energy standpoint. This team was dead in the water. Even if he and Kiesh fail, it’s easier for everyone to tolerate that than Belt and Frenchie striking out or making out all the time………
The fact that I’ve missed some ( as you admit you have) doesn’t make me wrong on this. He’s (Pill) had numerous chances up here and failed. As he will again. That’s my opinion and I’m right oftem enough for you to stop trashing me and my comments.
Pill’s Twitter ID is @PillzRgood. Just what the doctor ordered, dude.
I remember reading his epic tweet last week about Braun and thought that handle was ironic
Bozo 6:13PM . . . In Bozo I trust.
I’m loving the game. I demanded a win, I’m getting it.
Pill is doing great. Good for him, and the team.
Piling on Belt is BS, though, after one good game from Pill. Let’s see how long Pill hits this way. I’d guess not too long, given past history.
Belt has done no worse than most, better than some, during the free fall…
Belt plays first base. You have to hit if you play that position. There isn’t another 1b in all of baseball that’s all glove/no hit. This isn’t shortstop.
And while Belt’s Ops is passable, he strikes out too much and doesn’t hit for enough power for all the walks he takes.
I don’t dislike Belt, I’m indifferent to him. But as we know this lg is about production. He’s not been producing for a while now, it’s time for him to ride some pine
I get all that, and I agree. They should trade Belt, since they Fuck with him at every turn. I like the kid, because I think he’s got talent and has been turned inside out for no good reason by Bochy and the coaching staff. Why DON”T they get rid of him, then? Because they don’t think Pill is any better, long term. If Kieschnick turns into any kind of possibility in LF, Belt won’t even get a chance to play LF with Pill at 1B in the the coming weeks of playing out the string. So, they need to shit or get off the pot with Belt. They can still trade during the waivers period, or trade offseason. To me, it’s obvious management has given up on him, and I think they have wasted a very talented young player. Some other team will benefit, apparently…
I disagree that they’re fucking with him. He played in 145 games last year. 98 games so far this year. The dude is getting his time out there. And if they’re messing with his swing, there’s a reason for that. Otherwise, just fire all the coaches and let the players do whatever the hell they want. He’s tall, his swing has holes and he’s apparently a bit of a head case in terms of being too emotional. Take your coaching and the feedback from your coaches and fucking do what they say.
Look, this is a 5th round pick, it’s not like he was some lock. It’s quite possible that Brandon Belt just isn’t any good……
If he wasn’t ready as a 5th rounder, they shouldn’t have brought him up a year too early, which they did. But Huff crapped out, and they had nothing else. Consequently, he’s been fucked up trying to change his swing, playing against/not against LHPs, which he originally hit very well, told to be aggressive, not take walks, then he’s aggressive and Ks a lot — all on the fly while trying to hit major league pitchers. All while being publicly trashed by management. Just trade him and be done with it and get him the hell somewhere else with new coaches. If he succeeds/fails in a new place, we’ll know what happened here — either he was fucked with, or he’s no good, the usual Giants position player draft pick that doesn’t develop…
the announcers and the manager (and even the GM) did seem to publicly comment on him an unusual amount. Maybe there’s a reason for that and we aren’t privy to it.
Well, Belt is very obviously intelligent and very much not of the typical ballplayer mode. That makes some people nervous.
Here’s a tongue in cheek look at how he’s viewed:
4 for 4- making strides
3 for 4- decent day
2 for 4- waaaaaayyy too inconsistent
1 for 4- slumping
0 for 4 – batting 9th tomorrow.
In fact, even after the 5 K night he was second in OPS, OPS+, wOBA, and wRC+ among the team regulars- better than everyone except Buster. The last few days have taken a hit on those numbers but it’s totally absurd to be counting on the Pill to out perform Belt. They should have moved Pill to a bandbox and taken the rest of the year further evaluate Belt.
they’ve been evaluating Belt for a year and a half. Stop obsessing on numbers that don’t impact the game. He strikes out all the time. He’s not producing runs the way a first baseman should produce them. Fact.
So, for whatever reason, Belt doesn’t seem to make management all warm and happy. Could it be that they just want to trade him?
If a team in the playoff hunt needed a replacement guy for a MLB drug suspension or just needed a solid 1B, couldn’t they have already worked out a trade deal with the Giants? All the other team would have to do is put their young stud, that the Giants happened to want, on waivers. The Giants are so down in the standings that the pick would pretty much fall to them and they could complete the trade.
Or maybe not, but having the MLB suspension after the deadline might be to a lower placed teams advantage.
Meanwhile, Gaudin throws another (yawn) 7 solid innings..
Yeah you right, salty.
I know, lol. Zito has to watch these starts and just say “what the fuck?” To himself over and over
maybe *groping* the ball right is his secret
Well, he did look as happy as a drunk groper in a hospital ER.
Pence and Blanco the only ones w/o a hit. Come on! And I really, really, really want a game in which we are error-free.
Just to calm down and add some perspective, Astros up 11-0 vs. Balt. #justonegame
If you were crawling through the desert and came across “just one glass of water” it would look pretty fucking good, right? lol
true, but I was sure you’d use an analogy involving me and the mystery large-racked spectator on a desert island.
Get that run back, Giants…
I know it’s lame but I’m jazzed right now, for the first time in weeks. I just watched a bunch of YouTube highlights from the NLCS final game
Nice no torture win.
Hell yeah. Great win fellas, let’s do it again tomorrow.
I’m down with that.
Victory, sweet victory. Never to be taken for granted again.
Muh-muh-muh-muh-muh-my Kuroda will try to slow down the Dodgers tonight.
And tonight I’m a Yankees fan.
One game at a time, sure, but I’d view it as HUGE if they can win tomorrow and take a series on the road. Please, let’s do it, boyz.
In my opinion, Bochy plays the hot hand with regard to Pill and Belt. Belt has had his chances, as has Pill. Since no one else is available, per Bochy – they platoon until such time that one of them establishes himself as a legitimate 1st baseman (doubtful in my mind) or we get a real 1st baseman. Flav said it best the other night, Belt is “just a guy” and they are a dime a dozen in this league.
Pill and Belt have not had the same number of chances. So, why not let Pill play? I don’t think he’s going to pan out but WTF do I know?
No problem . . . That’s why I said “play the hot hand” (which is Pill).
Pill has been in the organization for dogs years. He’s nearly 4 years older than Belt, and has a couple thousand more pro minor league ABs than Belt (3322 to 670). If you believe that the Giants organization can recognize talent when they see it, there must be reasons why Pill has been a minor league lifer…
I’m not saying this applies to Pill, but a lot of ball players fall through the proverbial crack. Evaluation is subjective and humans make mistakes. Fortunately, this is becoming less and less so, with the use of Sabermetrics.