Post Basking: Broken and Beaten
Recently, someone made a comment about not wanting the Giants to turn out to be the worst “next year” World Series champion of all time. I concur. I don’t know what that record is. If you exclude the Marlins (and you have to since they were completely dismantled after their WS win) I think it’s impossible to not at least consider that this team is the worst World Series follow-up team of all time. And that is irritating on many different levels. I don’t want them being some trivia answer from Elias. Its incomprehensible for me to consider that they’ve gone from best to worst in less than a full season. And make no mistake about it, this is the worst team in baseball. Three teams have worse records than they do. One of those teams, Miami, kicked our ass 3 out of 4 back in June. The Cubs just swept us in our park. There was exactly one team that won less games than the Giants did in June (The White Sox). Exactly one team has won less games than the Giants have in July (The Astros). Answer honestly, do any of you think we could beat either of those teams in a 4 game series right now? I don’t.
Watch the interview with Bochy post game from yesterday. I have NEVER seen a more beaten down manager in the history of interviews. His body language is pathetic:
http://www.csnbayarea.com/blog/andrew-baggarly/bochy-wont-commit-zito-wont-rush-vogelsong
If the manager looks and acts like this how could you possible expect the players to come out with ANY life at all?
I can’t even recall what a knowing dude head nod looks like, much less how to do it…….
A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball 
True, victories, not to be taken for granted anymore. Actually, I like what Sabean did, which was nothing. That’s his statement to the team (for now) that hey, I built you into this team, and you won championships, so of course I’ve not giving up on you.. yet. Show some pride, guys. This is yours, the rest of this year. Go for it. .. Maybe a lighter team after this, beginning with tonight’s good win… If not, Sabean is going to be busy this coming off season.
Good post. Agree.
I totally agree. I am just hoping the do-nothingness creates a seismic, radical, ontological, palpable shift for the good. Shit, just imagine if we were to creep back and put some fear into our NL West competitors. Granted, we’ve got a long, long way to go before that is remotely possible. But, hey, August 1 is tomorrow. New month, new start. I’d have to look it up myself, but as noted in my book the Cards were way back at this point in 2011. OK. I’ll look it up and be right back.
I still think Belt could be a significant player. Hate to see it come to this. Maybe this just isn’t the place for him, but I wish it was.
The Kennedy trade absolutely baffles me. Why would the Dbacks give up on him? And they got nothing for him. Thatcher is a Mijares-caliber guy, not in Lopez’ league. Great move by the Pads. Wish it could have been us, but I wonder if the snakes would even make a deal with us.
well, why did the Yankees give up on him? Gibson likes *his guys* maybe he’s not one of those guys. They shit canned Bauer too.
Kennedy leads the league in hit batsmen regularly. I’m not saying that means anything, but it’s something he leads the league in. Maybe he’s just a dick.
San Diego picked the Snake’s pocket.
the trade made no sense. There’s a behind the scenes reason that he got dealt. Either that or the AZ Gm is just a fool……
Plus, he is “locked up” contract wise until 2015. Great deal for the Padres. Sherpa fans have been complaining all day and evening about the Kennedy trade on the airwaves . . . They want to know why the Sherpa Dalai Lama . . . Umm, GM didn’t make this trade. 🙂
Somebody actually hit HRs tonight. Amazing how that helps win games…
There’s pleny of time to make deals if/when they get on a run in the next 2 or 3 weeks. Zito’s status for the rest of the season might be the biggest puzzle. One thing is sure –he won’t pitch in a Giant uniform after this year .
Why would they make deals if they go “on a run”, if they didn’t make them before today? Get rid of Zito, that would be fine, but won’t happen. They would need to play 40-16 ball from here on in to get to 87 wins. The chances of that are non-existent. Playing the youngsters, whoever they are, is the goal now…
Circumstances are different in trading for help after the deadline. You should know that, Snarkk.
Of course I know it. Weird shit can happen after the no waiver deadline. But, if anything does happen, it will be of no consequence…
I should be quoting from Baseball’s Starry Night but too lazy. From Wikipedia:
After close of business on August 24, the day the Dodgers completed their sweep, St. Louis had fallen ten games behind Milwaukee in the NL Central standings and 10½ games behind the Atlanta Braves (and in third place) in the NL Wild Card standings. Manager Tony La Russa said on the struggles: “I guarantee that the team you have seen the past few weeks is not the team we have, and I believe you will start to see our team tomorrow.”[74] Chris Carpenter and other veterans called for a closed, player-only team meeting, which was held the day after the Dodgers series ended.[75] St. Louis’ odds of making the playoffs stood at 1.3%.[76]
Were there any other teams in-between, though? That makes it exponentially more difficult.
they were 3rd in the WC, which is how they got in ultimately
August 24th? Shit, that gives the Giants almost 4 weeks to suck the baloney poney before they get serious. 🙂
Henry Schulman @hankschulman 22m
As we were walking out of Bochy’s office he stopped us and said, “Oh, we’ve optioned Pill back to Fresno. #sfgiants.
–shows how much Bochy appreciates someone actually hitting the fucking baseball……..
Bochy was joking. Not particularly funny, though.
it was a joke, obviously, but it was also a subtle reference to giving a hitter some props who actually did what the rest of them haven’t done: hit. 6 hits in 2 games is worthy of some honor from the fans. It doesn’t mean we believe it will continue, but it’s worthy of….dare I say it?…A *Knowing Dude Head Nod*……
Pill has a good chance at all of Linden’s Fresno career records. Let the man go to pursue those records.
What did Bochy say when Belt had a 3 for 4 with a dinger, and double and a few RBIs? There was one or two in there somewhere this year. Probably, ” Uh, yeah, kid got a little lucky tonight, put some good swings down. Gotta keep it up, stay aggressive”…
More on the Kennedy trade…I usually don’t buy the “something must have been going on in the clubhouse” explanation, but I’ll go along with that explanation on this one. I do think Gibby and Towers are very big on getting “their kind of guys” in that clubhouse, but I thought a headhunter like Kennedy was the kind of guy they liked on their side.
To paraphrase a line from Lynryd Skynyrd: “that’s one hell of a price to pay to get a LOOGY.”
well, headhunters have attitudes too. You have to to be one. Maybe his personality wasn’t jiving with Gibby or his teammates. And they clearly showed a precedent to trade a talented arm due to that player also being an asshole when they ditched Bauer…….
Nice thoughts to sleep on Paulie.
This may be the first time this season I haven’t watched a Giants game. But I had the GameDay on while watching season 1 of House of Cards.. Watching what probably is truly sleazy stuff going on in Washington
turns my stomach; but the refreshing glances to the game watching the Boys pile it on tonight put a smile on my face that just won’t go away…..
I’ll let myself bask in the thought that maybe the players considered themselves a family that they didn’t want to break up…. and just the relief of seeing them together for 2 more months put a little spark in them….
Now… I’ll just put my wife’s Yankee hat on and watch a little hopefully Bomber attack on the Bums.
Stew is 3 for his last 38 for the Yanks. The guy can’t hit. We, of all people, know that.
Pill will beat out Tanaka and Perez for this year’s Eugenio Velez award. His hyper-proletarian visage will also compensate for any body language deficits.
personally, and I can’t speak for everyone, but I see through your 1-line hyperbole. And here’s a tip: while you’re jacking off to OPS you might want to consider run production now and again, as well as how many times your dude K’s and doesn’t hit home runs……..
and the position he plays DOES matter, unless you want to own that comment of “my prediction that he would hit better than Crawford is finally coming true”. Easily your worst post ever (and I know I paraphrased what I put in quotes, didn’t feel like looking it up)……..
Come on BF. Pill’s had two good nights. Cool. Belt can sit and sweat and ruminate about playing for the Astros. Whatever. Do you really think for one second that if this team weren’t in the crapper, and was actually in the hunt on August 1, that after 8 years in the minors, Pill would be getting a bunch of playing time?…
no, of course not. He’s getting playing time because of a pathetic, team wide melt down. You of all people, I would think, would appreciate the sight of Kieshnick or Pill at bat today. You just spent 24 hours demanding changes and a win. Well, you got it and I’ll celebrate for you…….
Stranger things have happened snarkk. There was “a guy” named Andres Torres who spent parts of 12 seasons in the minors before getting a full time gig in 2010.
OPS pretty much falls in line with wOBA and wRC+, both of which are recognized as good indicators of offensive production. For instance, Buster rates first in all three categories. OPS is hardly a meaningless stat ( or rather, two stats, as you know. And until the last week ( hardly enough of a slump to warrant benching ), Belt was second in all three categories and third in slugging pct.
We should all pay attention to James. I don’t always agree with him, but he knows his stuff.
those numbers are indicators of possible future results in the HR, runs, RBI’s category. They don’t guarantee shit. Look at the scoreboard and see how many OPS’s, wOBA’s or wRC+’s they’re counting……..
this league is about one thing: PRODUCTION
Of course I’m cool with the win. I demanded one. 😉
But, I don’t see where playing Pill gets this team anywhere. Feel good for a while, I guess. He’s not in their plans for next year, he can’t be. Otherwise, they’ve wasted his career in the minors. He’s a younger McClain, and I loved McClain. But, at some point, you have to decide if Belt is in the plans. If they’ve already decided he’s not, fine. Trade him, and I won’t kvetch about him any more until I can say I told you so when he hits for another team. If they haven’t decided, WTF does playing Pill for any concerted length of time or platoon whenever Bochy feels like it against LHPs do for that decision making, but confuse it?…
wOBA and wRC+ measure real time production. You were all over wRC+ as an indicator last year and used it to trash Belt. In fact, you pulled it up when someone noted his “runs created” numbers, a Bill James stat. wOBA measures a player’s overall offensive value and wRC+ measures runs created, ballpark adjusted- production. Neither stat is just an indicator of possible future numbers, they are both real time stats-as is “runs created”.
Maybe what Gibson doesn’t like is that Kennedy has sucked. He has a losing record and an ERA over 5.00 The Bax pen sucks too, so maybe it just got better and they are supposed to be deep in young SPs.
I’m starting to feel indifferent about Belt too. I was looking forward to more hitting like I saw end of last season–which has happened all too infrequently. End of last week he went 1-19, blew the groundball that turned a sure W into an L, made the base running gaffe and saw his BA drop to .250. Bochy gets pilloried for sitting him and playing Posey vs. LHP, so he leaves him in, and Belt looks clueless striking out 4 times. If you want to talk bad body language, no one is worse than Belt. He’s just not putting up 1b numbers; I’m not sure why but I just don’t think it has much to do with Meulens or Bochy.
I think Bochy is actually doing him a favor by letting him clear his head for a couple days. I still think he needs to be in there on regular basis, but…as the Mexican dicho says, when you are in the saddle, ride well.
Hopefully today gets everyone feeling better, they can settle down and play good ball. Tampa, next stop, is tough.
fantastic, reasonable post. I’d make it POTD but you’re too modest for that shit. 🙂
6 hits and a HR in two games? I’m officially on the Pill!
Wow, lots of great posts tonight. It’s almost like The Flap raised its game to equal this rare Giants blowout victory.
I’ll be at the game tomorrow (or later today), and I’m now much more stoked to be going off a win like this instead of yet another wretched loss. Hey, they got a chance for a 2-game winning streak!
send pics!
When the Giants are floundering, I like two teams – the Pirates and Indians. Consequently, I loved this quote from the online paper I was just reading:
“In the midst of a revival that has an entire city brimming with Bucs fever, Pirates general manager Neal Huntington reluctantly held back from making any deals. “We talk a lot about, we don’t want to do something stupid,” Huntington said. “We were willing to do something stupid, we just didn’t want to do anything insane.”
Well, they went hard after Stanton and dishy get him but had they gone a little harder that might have put them over the top
Sabes isn’t willing to do something perfectly sane, because the offers embarrassed him. That should make the other GMs put his phone number even further down in the rollodex. If the Giants can’t get it done, I’d be up for a Pirates’ autumn resurgence, yep, that would be cool. They’d trot out old vid of Stargell and Clemente and Blass and Tekulve and those hideous 70s uniforms and hats. Very cool…
We’re not sitting in last because of the usual suspects named ( the OF platoon and Belt) – Start with Zito, Vogie, Timmy, and Cain. The late inning pen (getting it to Romo) failed when Casilla went down.Then long slumps from Panda, Scooter, and Pence, poor performance from Pagan before he hit the whirlpool. Even Posey has had a bad July.
Alright men. We won one. It was against the Phlat Phills, but hey, I’m not telling if you won’t. The Makers will taste a bit better in a few minutes. Just one finger tonight. Bochy is leaving the Sunday start blank so far at the Rays — Zito is in limbo for that one. Bochy had better get a good idea, quick. You don’t want Zits to go in there and let that roadie ERA get over 10 about 4 batters and 30 pitches in. That would not be a good way to end a career. Maybe he’ll go on the DL or get Buster’s flu. GNight…
Enjoy the Makers. I don’t even know what that is, I rarely drink hard alcohol. Maybe at Flapalooza 3.0?
I’ll bet Snarkk was instrumental:
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505125_162-57569826/whiskey-lovers-cheer-as-makers-mark-restores-proof/
If the season ended today, the overwhelming blame for the last place finish would fall on the pitching. It has been an utter disaster. My guess is that the stats at the end of 162 games will tell the same story, even if they take Zito out of the rotation.
End of July runs scored
2012: 412
2013: 411
Runs allowed
2012: 406
2013: 470
Haha, M. Ellis comes in on a double switch and drops a pop-up to let in 2 more runs, Bombers 3-0 in the 9th.
That was on Puig.
But isn’t it a trip to hear Scully? The guy really is classic. I’m not sure I could take his delivery every day, but damn he’s fun once in a while — especially on a day when the Giants already have romped.
“They have a relatively new stat — walks and hits per innings pitched — WHIP, w h i p . . . .” Holy shit. Is this a parody or a real game?
“But you put your big boy pants on and deal with it and go out and play.”
Mrs. James wondered if a player’s 5th tool might be tucked away in those pants.
I rather enjoyed watching Ellis and Puig blow that pop-up in the ninth inning.
Ballgame over. Yankees win! Theeeeeeeeeeeee Yankees win!
It was hilarious how Ethier got jobbed on strike three.
Not the first to have that happen vs. Mariano.
As dire as it looks now, we’re not out of it. Unfortunately the concept that the best trades may be the ones not consummated is not a concept that many are conversant with- and I’m not referring to anyone here, it’s a general and truthful observation. As to the ludicrous notion that no one wants to deal with Sabean, one has to have been asleep in a Philippine cave for the last few years to even suggest such nonsense. There is absolutely nothing in his record to suggest he wouldn’t have made moves if he felt the offers were good enough to help us.
I’m wavering now.
Perhaps its WAS better you were going to keep your posts to a minimum… 😉
lol
Good post Mike.
I agree with Twin. No matter how it looks now, I’m glad Sabean didn’t move a bunch of bodies willy-nilly. Even trading Lincecum which one misfortunate was proposing did not come to pass. And bad mouthing Sabean is left to the uninformed.
I think the playing the kids fans have an idealized concept of same that just isn’t accurate. The thought that these guys will bring a new level of energy, and play all out gung ho fun to watch to baseball, is BS.
What have the Giants *kids* brought this season, except for suckitude? I don’t want to watch Kickham and surkamp start games, and I don’t want to watch 2 months of Noonan and Perez and Hector either. These guys were not part of the solution, they were part of the problem—good for a couple weeks tops as replacements, and then back to reality of not being ready or capable to play at ml level.