Grading the New Contract Guys
I know this ripping off the Merc blog post by Carl Steward but I was struck by it. I hadn’t bothered to grade Sabean’s off season moves so far but when you look at the guys he signed it’s really remarkable how they have all turned out: so far.
Huddy: A+
Morse: A
Hicks: B+
Colvin: B
Vogelsong: A-
Anyone got a problem with those grades so far?
A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball 
Nope. Not at all. I have no totals, but quite a few Flappers thought Sabean was nuts going with most of the 2012 crew and the “K-Mart Blue Light Specials” he signed. I’ve said consistently that Sabean has made very few errors in his career here, especially when you compare him with the other GMs around the league (past and present). No one is perfect, but his record of 3 World Series, 2 World Series Championships, numerous Division titles, etc., etc., gives him a pass to make a mistake once in awhile. Right now, this moment, he is the front runner for GM of the year. Easily.
So yeah, your grades are spot on Flavor.
Yeah, the grading seems accurate and fair. Giants are very fortunate in the quality of both its off and on field managers. And we must not forget the scouts and the evaluation staff. This is one well-engineered and well-oiled machine from top to bottom. Payroll is up there but not among the highest and definitely not among the most extravagant.
Proof is in the pudding. Giants on a pace for a 100 win season. Could get derailed a bit, but long losing streaks or even frequently dipping roller-coaster rides are unlikely due to a combination of team balance among pitching, field defense and power offense. Also a stopper like Hudson and a bullpen with guys like Affeldt and his microscopic and Machi with his sub-microscopic ERA’s are quite capable of stanching the bleeding.
This team is almost pure pleasure to support.
I’ve got no argument with those grades so far. Hicks is starting to make me a little bit nervous, and Adrianza playing yesterday might be a hint that they want to see what this guy can do (finally). 2nd base is still a potential issue as far as I’m concerned, but Hicks at least has pop and is better than adequate defensively. I’m guessing Panik is the chosen long term answer, because if he’s not, they better have a Plan B. As for Sabes’ grades on fashioning a bench, a generous D…
What about the Timmy signing?
Pence as well. Sure, they were here already, but they didn’t have to stay. I’d add:
Pence B+
Timmy C+
I’d switch the grades between Colvin and Vogelsong, although the latter has exceeded expectations in a big way and Colvin only has 45 PAs.
Wasn’t Lincecum an off-season signing?
Yeah at the beginning of the year these moves seemed like more of a hope and a prayer. Morse and Huddy were damaged goods, Hicks was a flier, Colvin the same, and Vogie was a complete disaster of a signing. Timmy is still working hard to be a successful finesse pitcher, and Pence is Pence.
JC Gutierrez…B+
Huff B-
The cherry on top of this banana split would be Samardzija. As ESPN points out . . .
http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/cubs/post/_/id/24293/samardzija-giants-might-be-a-good-fit . . .
Crick could be the centerpiece of a trade between us and the Cubs. Crick, 21, who’s 2-1 with a 4.08 ERA in Double-A right now and is ranked 69th in Law’s (whom I respect) top 100 prospects. Him and another top prospect will probably get this deal done. I would do this deal every day and twice on Sunday.
Several other teams are hot for him,too. ..think it would take Crick plus 2 other strong prospects. Ie…Law plus one other.
I just don’t see Giants doing anything with rotation now that Vog is pitching well.
WOW “Smoke and mirrors,” Hudson said after becoming the first Giant with a sub-2.00 ERA through 10 starts since Dave LaPoint in 1985.
That is from http://www.sfgate.com/giants/shea/article/Tim-Hudson-Michael-Morse-lead-Giants-over-Cubs-5508807.php
another tid bit from the article….Of the Giants’ 223 runs scored, a league-high 102 have come with two outs.
Samardzija to the Gyros I would think is a pipedream, though a nice one. Giants won’t give up multiple pitching prospects, which is what it would take. Voggy is probably gone from the rotation next year, and Timmy and Hudson the year after as their contracts end after the 2015 season. They’re going to need multiple bodies in the rotation by 2016, not just one. They’ve got nothing else to give in the minors, the position player cupboard is essentially bare. Can’t trade anybody on the 25, there’s no bench now. Crick is young, has control issues, seems just another “maybe” to me, probably the same to GMs…
I would off Crick, Panik, and another blue chip for Samardzija . . . and sleep like a baby afterwards. 🙂
Not even close to what I want, if I’m Theo Epstein…
Fill in the blanks then. Whoever are top three prospects are, then get rid of them.
Maybe our top three aren’t good enough compared to another team’s top three? Panik seems a fairly pedestrian prospect to me. I dunno, blade. The Giants farm system is pretty top heavy with pitchers, and we’re going to need some soon. So if you give that away for one guy, what happens if Samardzija gets Tommy Johned in August? It’s a risky move to give away your near term rotation potential for one guy…
As I pointed out to Kevin, Crick is only “potential,” and Samardzija is as sure a thing as you can get. Shit snarkk, come on – Crick could need TJ surgery next week. Do I have to mention all the NEW pitchers that have had this surgery? Age is probably down the list of factors when it comes to having TJ surgery. I would think pitching motion is the biggest factor (albeit, I don’t know for certain).
I’m definitely in agreement on Crick. To me, he’s just another guy, he might turn into nothing. Samardzija on the Gyros probably guarantees a playoff appearance, I’d agree with that. Without him, they might get there anyway. My point is in 2016 SF likely will be in need of replacing 3 pitchers on the rotation. Where are they going to come from if you trade the possible replacements now?…
Dunno. 2016 is an eternity away. You’ve summarized my point though, “To me, he’s just another guy, he might turn into nothing.” Posey was a sure thing. Bonds was a sure thing. Willie Mays was a sure thing. For every sure thing, there are a lot of “just another guy(s)” out there. Shit, it doesn’t even have to be a trade for Samardzija. If Sabes sees someone he likes and trades a blue chip prospect(s), I don’t sweat it.
The SPs have done what they needed to do, picking it up in the face of an inevitable falling off of the bullpen to more realistic numbers. The starters are collectively putting up league average numbers (3.5 is an ok ERA, not a good one), while the bullpen is now at 2.37. I see BP ERA still going up a little ways. I’d also deal for Samardzija.
The bullpen remains the biggest differentiator between LA and SF.
This move isn’t just for this season Salty . . . Hudson is long in the tooth (38 years old) and Voggy will be 37 in July. In my opinion, Crick is only a “maybe,” insofar as being a success. See Zack Wheeler, who has shown promise, but hasn’t ultimately delivered (high ERA and WHIP, and also walks to many batters).
Consequently, I view Crick as mostly a trading chip that should be cashed in if an opportunity presented itself. Also, don’t fool yourself about the stability of the Giants rotation or as you said, “I just don’t see the Giants doing anything with the rotation now.” Lincecum has NOT righted the ship yet – his 4.55 ERA and 1.61 WHIP attests to that fact. Who knows what happens to Cain, Voggy and Hudson going forward? I can’t read Samardzija’s mind, but I would get tired of losing playing for the Cubs. He has to have the Phone Park as his numero uno nirvana to rescue his putrid win/loss record. Yeah, he would get a lot of money where ever he goes, but I doubt he wants to go to a loser franchise and for this reason, I think the Giants should explore a deal with the Cubs.
So Blade what you are saying is that Crick is not showing the same potential that Bum, Cain and Timmy showed when they first came up? just some clarification. Thanks.
No, not saying that. What I am saying is that it is ONLY potential. Samardzija is the real deal and is relatively young. MLB blue chip prospects are not sure things like their brethren in the NFL. As I said before, I look at these prospects for the most part as trading chips when an opportunity exists to win immediately. With Samardzija, you not only get that, but the future as well. Something we didn’t get with Beltran for Wheeler. However, I approved that trade because I knew Sabes was trying to win a playoff spot, so I endorsed it. Crick hasn’t done jack yet, so for me to endorse trading him to improve our chances this year (along with future years), yes, I would do that Kev. 🙂
Thanks, just wondering I love get a lot of perspective on young players. Most of you guys are really good at this, I am only so so. I did pick Crawford as the starting SS a couple of years back. But they are few and far between for me. ha ha.
The Samardzija trade auction makes me bring up again the inability of MLB teams under the CBA to trade draft picks. GMs are obviously enamored with first round picks, they are loathe to give them up as compensation for picking up free agents. If 1st and 2nd round picks could be traded, you would get some very interesting trade packages offered to the Cubs, more clubs would be involved IMO…
That post at the mercy stuck with me too. Ive pretty consistently supported Sabean and liked Morse early too. Who said what and when? Eh. Whatever. I’m on the northbound train to phone book park now. I’ll have a cha cha bowl for you guys.
Go Giants!
Look up zumiee, he’s there at the game today…
I’d put the RSox on top of the potential Samardzija acquirers. First, connection with Epstein. Next, the Sox have a badass amount of minor league talent, and they have the coin to sign the guy long term and not bat an eye about it. And, Detroit, too. The owner will do anything to buy a championship before he dies. I don’t know what’s in the Detroit system, but they must have a few blue chips…
The money for the Giants really is not an issue. Lincecum, Vogey, and Hudson will be off the books post-20-15 (the year in which Samardzija becomes a FA). The problem I have is more dealing one of your top your pitching prospects. I could maybe be swayed to make the deal, but it certainly doesn’t fall into the “no brainer” category for me.
No problem with the grades you provided, Flavor, or really with the ones others have shared.
Not sure about dealing for Samardzija. No way I would give up Crick and a couple of other decent prospects.
Samardzija is also a FA after 2015 (as is the case with Tim and Tim). He is making 5.35 this year, and will be arb-eligible, so will probably get a small raise based on his numbers. His numbers are not earth-shattering (lifetime 3.9 ERA and 1.39 WHIP). So if you traded Crick and did not sign Samardzija to an extension/long-term deal, then you have one less piece (Crick) to potentially fill-out the rotation in 2015.
Edwin Jackson going for the Cubbies. Pads, of all teams, beat him like a drum in his last start down at PetCo. By all rights, Giants should do the same today. Timmy is Timmy. Could be a fair amount of scoring today…
Timmy is almost a guaranteed win today. Want to worry? Do it in his next start in Cincy. OH OH!
Yeah, that bandbox is scary…
will likely be blazing hot next week as well…
CF Pagan, RF Pence, 1B Posey, 3B Sandoval, C Sanchez, LF Colvin, SS Crawford, 2B Adrianza, P Lincecum
Looks like Bochy wants to see if Adrianza can hit, take some pine slivers out of his tush. Hicks taking two games off. Is 2nd base in play?…
Well, Hicks is 1 for 18 in his previous 6 games . . . just sayin’
The way I look at Adrianza getting playing time is to show case him for a possible trade. Now or later.
Surprised that Posey is playing . . . All the major publications were saying he would take the day off (mental health day). Sanchez is also hurting a bit.
Don’t you guys get tired of your opinions and predictions always being right….? lol
I agree with what you have as grades for those guys, though Hicks probably should be lower – he’s below the Mendoza line, and his OBP is now below .300 – so I’d go closer to B- or C+.
Good point B.J. (wasn’t aware that Hicks was flailing more then usual, until I looked at his recent stats).
Lets check the mid-terms first. Everyone is a champ in May.
NL West with the best record in baseball right now!!!
I could do with the Rocks and Doghairs losing a little more…
Hicks is no Bioinnifacio, but he has proven to be a servicable second baseman regardless of his BA and OBP…I say B+ is fair. And his productivity is probably Cano-esque!
I’m sure others were talking about getting Morse before the Giants did, I know I mentioned it in November last year. I think everyone knew he could hit, the only concerns that I recall were his defense and his health. As long as he stays away from the injury bug, he is/was a good fit for the Giants.
Bozo
Submitted on 2013/11/30 at 7:32 am
I’m not sure which OFer out there the Giants want to trade for, but in the meantime, I’m starting to think of Mike Morse in a Pat the Bat role. RHer with pop, he had some wrist problems last year but he had surgery this offseason and could probably be gotten cheap.
Geez clown – does Sabes have your cell #?…
😉
No. I think he’s kept track of all the times I’ve been wrong. Thankfully though, I;m pretty sure he’s lost track of all the times I’ve been just plain stupid.
On national sports radio shows, I hear, rarely, mention that the Giants are first in the NLWest and have the best record in MLB. Then, immediately on to the latest exploits and wackiness of Puig and much detail about the wringing of hands in RSox land after a 10 game losing streak…
I was just wondering when the National sports media would start the “Are the Giants for Real” headlines? Probably not until August, I’d guess.
32 pitches for Timmy in the first. That’s 3 innings worth for Hudson…
Good news is that Timmy escaped. Bad news is that it took him 32 pitches (2 BB),
Hudson would’ve thrown at least 3 innings last night in the time it took Lincecum to get through the 1st. And what a play by Sandoval.
Jackson has always had the SOs, but has never really put it all together. Fairly confident the Giants will figure him out.
Giants generally seem to do better against hard throwers than slop throwers…
That Dave LaPoint stat blows my mind. Is that actually true? I’ll be amazed if he had a sub 2.00 ERA after 10 starts in 1985. My memories of that guy are that he was terrible.
I don’t know but it was in the link to the article. soooo…hopefully someone did their homework before putting it in the article
Absolutely not true. Here are his splits for ’85.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=lapoida01&year=1985&t=p
If you average the April and May ERAs [(2.22 + 1.77)/2], it’s just below 2.00 through the first two months of ’85, but over only 35+ innings in 9 starts…
At this rate, Timmy will be lucky to get through 5…
Hilarious, watching ESPN game cast. Pic of Tyler Colvin comes up in a Rockies uni!! Ha ha
Timmy is so wild lately, I really think he should just go back to trying that thing a few years back when he pitched out of the stretch all the time. Now, Crawford boots a potential DP ball. I think the D gets messed up behind Timmy when he throws so many pitches…
70+ pitches for Lincecum through 4. Zitoesque. The upside — no hitter so far…
That’s his scooter? Hilarious. Does it even have a motor?
Yep, apparently electric motor. Has a battery.
How do the Giants allow a $90M player to use this thing on SF city streets (no helmet, too, apparently), but were PO’d that Kent got hurt allegedly riding a motorcycle?
http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/05/26/someone-stole-hunter-pences-scooter/
When I heard motor scooter, I was thinking Vespa or Honda . . . Ya know, something half-assed useful. 🙂
Extrapolate and Timmy could pitch a no hitter on 173 pitches…
Lincecum pulled for PH Hicks. Those 5 innings for him define “effective wildness”…
Gyros really should win this game.
They should not lose a home series to the lowly Cubs. Need to get some runs, maybe a dinger or two is in order…
Good job by Kontos.
Yeah, nice turn by him.
Crazy Horse getting it started. Nice.
Good looking day at the Yard. Yeah mama.
With hits and runs being so damned hard to come by today…G-men really need to cash-in here.
Atta babe Pablo!
Cha Ching! Pablo keeps adding zeros to that contract proposal. LOL . . .
Pay the man. Giants management will be fools if they do not.
The Panda Man
Tyler Colvin – come on down!
Colvin coming through.
More two-out RBIs. Pretty amazing…
Tacking on to their MLB-leading 2 out RBIs…
I’ll say it again.
Why not a squeeze here?…
Oy. Because a soft fly out is better?
I cannot recall the last time Bochy put on a squeeze (safety or suicide). One of the few things about him that I do not like, and one of the things that I really liked about Dusty.
At the risk of eye rolls, is Adrianza less or more likely to drive in a run hitting away or bunting for a safety or suicide squeeze? I say it’s at least a toss up, if not more likely with a bunt. Fielding and throwing out a bunt attempt stresses the defense more than a routine grounder or a pop fly…
Dusty would throw the sign out there, but if I’m remembering correctly, Roger Craig was a squeezing machine.
Yep. If Craig had a wet noodle bat hitting like Adrianza, with speed, Roger figured a bunt was more likely to get a run in than swinging away. He was a pragmatist manager. Bochy hopes the batter will make a play, he rarely forces the oppo to make a play. I say bunt and make the pitcher or 3rd baseman make a tough play…
True – the Humm Baby loved the suicide. And I loved that aspect of his managerial make-up…
Colvin…A-, just because expectations were so low. Belt comes back, the bench looks solid.
Kontos is dealing. Why not leave him in to finish the frame?…
There you go. Affeldt immediately puts two runners on. Bochy over-managing, and burns Affeldt in the 7th…
Machi getting it done, and saves Bochy’s ass. Nice job. Bochy over-managing like Selipe there…
Damn…thought for sure that was an inning-ending DP…
Hard to tell on the radio… (grin)
OK, with all of Tim’s walks, I didn’t realize the Giants had a no no going on until Affeldt gave up that hit.
The Machi-machine…
Mucho Machi Man…
Tacking on! Posey getting in on the fun…
More 2-down RBI fun. And, shockingly, helped by getting a guy in scoring position with a BUNT… 🙂
They are calling it a hit, so add on to the RBIs with two outs.
Changed to an error.
MORE 2-down RBI fun! Great clutch hitting by Hector…
Club the Cubs!
Gotta love this team!
Now that’s tacking it on. Yes.
Gameday mini . . . not the same as being there!
No shit…I’m with ya on that one, Charlie…
Mudbug having a hell of a time with the glove today…
Did they have a monster truck rally in the infield before the game?
Zumiee’s good luck attending games at ATT looks to continue. If SF gets into the playoffs, Giants need to get him tickets. Dirt sees a good one, too…
Haha. I’ve been lucky too. I’ve rarely seen a loss in person.
Anyone remember when the Giants last played a game without an error? Don’t get me wrong…they’re still winning games, but the D needs to be tightened up…especially with this tough roadie coming-up.
Ballgame. On to St Lou.
Playing like a well oiled scooter. 🙂 Gotta love it. Now, let’s go kick some Card ass.
Nice to win the series against a bad team. Cubs suck. Division winners do that, take series against teams they should beat. Now, hit the midwest and get ready for some good competition…
Phils beat Rox on Howard 3-run HR in 9th. It’d be nice if the Reds can get one in L.A.
Beating Kershaw a bonus.. 3-1 Reds, 6 th
3-2 Reds over the bumbinos top of the 9th. Nice home stand…now off to whoop some DeadBird and Reds ass.