A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball

Pence No Longer By the Fence

Posted in Uncategorized by Flavor on June 4, 2016

When AJ Pollock went down for the year for the D-backs everyone said what a big blow it would be. Like if the Giants lost Pence. I didn’t agree then and I don’t agree now. The Giants and Arizona are built completely different and are run differently. Also, I think everyone overreacted at the value of Pollock. AZ wasn’t going to ever be as good as the pundits were thinking. Same way SD wasn’t going to fulfill promise last season.

Loo brought up the idea of taking Markakis from the Braves who would be salivating at the idea of shedding the rest of his deal. The Giants beat writers scoffed at this idea when I proposed it and one of them, I think Baggs, said the Giants would only be looking at a 2 month rental. Suggested our sights be set closer to Jeff Francour.

Can I raise a topical point? Why should the Giants just be looking for a 2 month rental? Because Angel Pagan is such a rock solid reliable player? This is beyond stupid. The Giants are the worst team in the history of baseball at developing outfielders. So the pipeline is bare and broken UNTIL they produce one.

During the season, that means trades are the only way of acquiring legitimate mlb talent. Tell me what could possibly be wrong with picking up a steady outfielder like Markakis for the long haul?

When and if Pence came back this year, BELIEVE ME there would be a spot for him. And there will be a spot next year. And probably the year after that.

I’m not saying that Markakis is the answer, but the idea that the replacement has to be some shit-done player like Francour is ludicrous. If they’re going to do that, just do the Mac-Park thing instead. We need good outfielders. Lots of them. We should stockpile them.

Markakis is available? Great. Come aboard. You got a brother? Bring him too.

203 Responses

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  1. willedav's avatar willedav said, on June 4, 2016 at 7:53 am

    IF, you are going to add an OF Markakis would be the floor imo. I think Flav is right, go after someone you can keep in the LU for a few years if you are going to do something about state of the OF.
    In house might be able to handle it; Sabes looked the other way before Giants wound up with likes of Panik and Duffy, Crawford too. And generally the guys he brought in (Hicks Uggla Tejada MacG OCab) didn’t cut it after 2010 days of Rent/Uribe/Ross.

    The division looks weak to me, so SF just has to stay ahead of LA, who also seem weaker and have the rook mgr dealing with diminished pitching staff and underperforming hitters. The others are bottom feeders.

    Wild scene in SD vs. Rox last night—Melvin Up stole home with bases loaded and Pomeranz at the plate, as LHP Rusin went into full windup. Mel got walking lead broke into sprint and then made evasive slide to tap plate with left hand as he eluded tag.
    In first inning, Rusin threw Kemp a fastball with 2 on that he drove 450 into upper reaches of LF seats for a 3-0 lead. In the dugout afterward Arenado went ballistic on C Hundley and later apologized for it.

    Great gutty performance from Cueto (and Wainwright for that matter), timely hits good D, pen held off Cards.
    Great posts from Daniel yesterday, good to have around. Two good teams competing, good baseball.

    • Richard M. McMinn (@mikemcmn)'s avatar Richard M. McMinn (@mikemcmn) said, on June 4, 2016 at 11:16 pm

      Timely hits? The bases were walked loaded! I, for one, was betting the slumping lineup would find away to not get a run out of it. So with that in mind I suppose there was a “timely hit”. Otherwise they were as gifted the win like so many more of their recent 1 or 2 run games.

  2. blade3colorado's avatar blade3colorado said, on June 4, 2016 at 8:00 am

    Personally, I don’t like either player much, but if given a choice – of course, Markakis would be the one I would go with. Versus Francoeur, that’s a no brainer.

    The positive thing about Markakis is that he gets on base where things can happen. But he plays for the Braves, who struggle to make anything happen. He is one of the few bright spots on the team despite his paltry .238 average. So if he came here, his excellent OBP would continue and his batting average would improve because he would be better protected by the Giant LU, where he would see better pitches to hit.

    Power? He hasn’t had double digit HRs since leaving Baltimore, so who cares? He wouldn’t have hit them here anyway. Defensively, he’s a plus outfielder. Not certain, but I think he won 2-3 gold gloves – so again, that would be a big positive at the Phone Park.

  3. Carstie Clausen's avatar Carstie Clausen said, on June 4, 2016 at 8:13 am

    Great post, Flav. No! To rents replacing Pence at the Fence. Willedav is totally spot on about Markakis being at the ground floor of possible replacements. Giants can no longer pose as bottom-feeders, no matter how much turning dimes into dollars happens to appeal to Sabean. Go for the gusto, gang. I’m still musing over the possibility of Ozuna ~ and would not be averse to giving up the likes of Shaw to get him…even though there is little doubt that Shaw has star credentials abuilding. He would be extremely tempting to the scabrous penny-pinching ripoff owner of the Marlins. We are talking a 22 Y.O. who should be a M.L. starter by 2018~ maybe even next season for a perennially rebuilding team.

    At this point it looks as if SF is an outfielder and perhaps one veteran reliever away from a very nice shot at four in 7. Go for the gusto, gang.

  4. willedav's avatar willedav said, on June 4, 2016 at 8:16 am

    Mac referenced Bullets talking about Warriors comeback from 3-1 deficit. During convo I heard early yesterday on kNBR, one of the talking heads mentioned Jeff Malone. wow what a deadly midrange shooter, lost (and still very important imo) art these days ala Livingston. Had great 5 yr run of 20+ ppg for Wash mid to late 80s.

  5. dirtnrocksnomo's avatar dirtnrocksnomo said, on June 4, 2016 at 8:22 am

    Opa!!!

  6. unca_chuck's avatar unca_chuck said, on June 4, 2016 at 8:35 am

    Yeah, the main point being, getting a guy like Markakis is not blocking the next Willie Mays who is flying through the minors. We rolled the bones with Pence because of this very fact. As has been beaten into the ground for years now, we haven’t developed a homegrown OFer since, I don’t know, the Reagan administration?

  7. Macdog's avatar Macdog said, on June 4, 2016 at 8:54 am

    Watching Giants-Braves the day after Pence got hurt, I briefly considered bringing back Francoeur — until he struck himself out twice vs. MadBum on pitches way out of the zone.

    I like the Markakis idea, too. It makes even more sense to get another OFer under contract considering Pence, now 33 and given his injuries the last two seasons, can no longer can be counted on as an every-day player. And as Loo suggested, it shouldn’t take much at all to get Markakis from the rebuilding Braves.

  8. Carstie Clausen's avatar Carstie Clausen said, on June 4, 2016 at 8:58 am

    Another Miami possibility would be their very good 25 y.o. left fielder Christian Yellich. He would be expensive as he is having a strong season. He would just about wipe out the farm, copping not only Shaw, but probably also one of our 3 strongest starter prospects and likely either Parker or Williamson as a dice-throw fill-in replacement. IF the braintrust is pretty sure SF would have a better than even chance of overcoming the Cubs and the Nats in the Playoffs, he might just be worth busting the bank.

    Of course Miami would deal ~ considering their ownership. But again, the cost would be high.

  9. willedav's avatar willedav said, on June 4, 2016 at 9:01 am

    With Cal primary coming up, all the big players have been here lately, which of course produced police activity at Trump event downtown San Jose (about 15 minutes from where I live), as has occurred elsewhere.
    Gad this is depressing. He just spouts stuff off the top of his head that are flat ridiculous—no drought in Calif, hater Hispanic judges are biased against him, other countries are stronger than US—and his followers eat it up.
    And of course he’d fix it all, even telling the PGA that moving the golf tournament with his name from Florida to Mexico would not happen once he got in. Scared to think what would tho.

    In Colombia in late 1940s, 2 strongly divided political parties squared off for election and immediately before it the more liberal candidate was assassinated. The conservative one won and started reprisals vs. other side, which of course retaliated and there started 20 yrs. plus of “La Violencia”, and included brutal military dictatorship for a few years 1953-57.
    Ultimately parties got together and compromised to share power of presidency in name of peace and prosperity.

    Seriously, I wonder what happens in America after this election. Trump has threatened those who oppose him if he gets in and if he doesn’t you gotta wonder how he and his followers would react.

    • willedav's avatar willedav said, on June 4, 2016 at 9:10 am

      thanks god for baseball, something not even Selig can ruin.

    • Carstie Clausen's avatar Carstie Clausen said, on June 4, 2016 at 9:36 am

      Willedav: There was some serious rioting by Hispanics at the Trump rally in San Jose, with some of his supporters getting beaten and many who were heavily harassed. Trump may be an obnoxious ass, but when his detractors (some number of them probably illegals) manage to trump Trump’s blatherings by violent acts against his supporters; we are looking at a situation in which there are no good guys. An election between the Trumpeting Elephant in the room and the psychopathic Wicked Witch of the West is grounds for total bedlam.

    • unca_chuck's avatar unca_chuck said, on June 4, 2016 at 9:38 am

      They will slide back into obscurity.

      That being said this is a very dangerous time.

      I said 6 months ago we are one more ill-timed scandal from President Trump

      God help us all. Like someone funnier than me said, if Trump wins, Canada will be the one to build a wall to keep Americans out.

      • Carstie Clausen's avatar Carstie Clausen said, on June 4, 2016 at 9:41 am

        If the war-loving psychopathic Wicked Witch Hildenheimer wins in November the probable nuclear fallout will render Canada unlivable too. About the only probable positive about Trump is that he’s far more likely to make some kinda sleazy deal with Russia and China than get us involved in total nuclear wipeout.

  10. alleykat69's avatar alleykat69 said, on June 4, 2016 at 9:05 am

    I wouldn’t mine trying to get Josh Reddick instead of Markasis personally.
    Though Billy Ball never wants to deal with us atleast make a call and see where it leads..

    • Carstie Clausen's avatar Carstie Clausen said, on June 4, 2016 at 9:38 am

      Reddick and the Redass Carolina Cowboy on the same team might be taken by the terminally politically correct as grounds for something other than quiet contemplation.

  11. unca_chuck's avatar unca_chuck said, on June 4, 2016 at 9:33 am

    I liken what happened in SJ (the attacking of Trump followers) to what happens after a team wins it all.

    An excuse for assholes to fuck with shit.

    Hah! The last home grown all star outfielder was ……..

    Chili Davis in 1986.

  12. alleykat69's avatar alleykat69 said, on June 4, 2016 at 10:33 am

    Yeah Chuck and then you have to go back another 30 years + with some kid named Willie Mays..

    • zumiee's avatar zumiee said, on June 4, 2016 at 10:54 am

      Hey, my man Bobby Bonds was not only an All-Star, he was MVP of an All-Star Game. 🙂

      • snarkk's avatar snarkk said, on June 4, 2016 at 11:00 am

        Bobby Bonds, Class A Fresno Giants, 1966…

  13. snarkk's avatar snarkk said, on June 4, 2016 at 10:47 am

    Kat, don’t forget Sarge, Garry Maddox, George Foster, Kenny Henderson.
    I believe that Sabes’ regime doesn’t really care about developing outfielders. He doesn’t value them much. Seems from the outside that the idea is that when we need one, we’ll get one. Infielders and pitching are valued. That’s the best explanation I can think of that explains the total lack of a quality OFer being developed under Sabean’s watch. Not one. He and his crew have proven too smart to think that the best explanation is that this front office for 20 years is just crap at picking and developing outfielders. I’m trying to give them the benefit of the doubt. Maybe they ARE just crap at it, but if that is the case, that’s just weird…

  14. snarkk's avatar snarkk said, on June 4, 2016 at 10:55 am

    The Pence mess is a golden opportunity for Parker and Williamson to show whether they are big leaguers. My guess is they are not. But, you don’t know until they get the opportunity. There’s nothing more they can show at AAA. They aren’t 21 and still developing — they are either going to make it, or they are forever AAAAers. For them, it’s time they get a shot to show whether they can hit at this level. Glove work on either seems fine, Parker appears better. So, play these guys and by the trade deadline, the Giants will know if they need to go outside to get an OFer. Unless they do a total out of the sky move like bring up a AA guy, maybe Arroyo and throw him into the outfield. You guys with the minor league knowledge maybe can educate us on a wild hair choice from AA?

    And please, agree with BF, no Francouer, no broken down dude with a track record but who’ll be out of the game next season. I thought that guy would be a coach by now. The Giants have coin, somebody wanting to offload a decent OFer making a lot of cash sounds like a target of choice…

    • Carstie Clausen's avatar Carstie Clausen said, on June 4, 2016 at 11:25 am

      Good basic take and likely the go-to for the powers that be during the short haul. If the team can endure a June with a .500 record or better with at least one of the pair playing on a daily basis; they are then likely to stick with the situation until the All-Star Break. At that point, should moves be needed, they will likely be made. So the next 6 weeks ~ possibly less if there is either a double flop or a single breakout ~ will be the window of opportunity for Parker and Williamson.

  15. snarkk's avatar snarkk said, on June 4, 2016 at 11:10 am

    I had no idea.
    Bobby Bonds, Jr., Barry’s brother, played minor league ball for 11 years. Never made it to the big time.
    http://www.baseball-reference.com/bullpen/Bobby_Bonds_Jr.

    • zumiee's avatar zumiee said, on June 4, 2016 at 11:15 am

      I didn’t know that.

      Sometimes having the same name can be an extra burden. Mickey Mantle later in life said he regretted naming a son Mickey Mantle, Jr. His son was crushed by the public’s expectations. A similar thing happened to Joe DiMaggio, Jr.

  16. zumiee's avatar zumiee said, on June 4, 2016 at 11:11 am

    Once in a while I give the Baseball Hall of Fame website a look to see what articles they have posted, and here’s an article about a 1973 Jim Ray Hart card.
    http://baseballhall.org/discover/card-corner/1973-jim-ray-hart-topps-card

    • djloo27's avatar djloo27 said, on June 4, 2016 at 1:07 pm

      Zumiee: Thank you for posting this great and sad article.

  17. zumiee's avatar zumiee said, on June 4, 2016 at 11:26 am

    Hillary is a “war-loving psychopath”? I don’t see it. She’s hawkish on a few issues, but not more than a lot of other politicians. She’s the bland moderate in this election campaign. Bernie excites the Left, Trump excites the Right, and Hillary…..is just there. Like macaroni and cheese. Most people like macaroni and cheese, but few would pick it as their favorite meal.
    I think Bill Maher said it well. He said something like: “One of her campaign ads says ‘Are you ready for Hillary?’ And I said, ‘Sure, I’m ready.’ It’s like when you’re at the doctor’s office, and they say ‘Are you ready for your shot’ and I pull up my sleeve, and say, “Yeah, I’m ready.'”
    Hillary’s strategy seems to be to appear to be the “safe” pick. It may end up not being a successful strategy, but it appears to be the strategy.

    • zumiee's avatar zumiee said, on June 4, 2016 at 11:29 am

      All of that is just my opinion, obviously.

      • zumiee's avatar zumiee said, on June 4, 2016 at 11:32 am

        And it very well might end up being a winning strategy for Hillary. It’s not the strategy I would advise her to take. It’s helpful if the candidate can actually generate a lot of excitement on the campaign trail.

    • snarkk's avatar snarkk said, on June 4, 2016 at 11:43 am

      The fact that these two are the only real choices available to lead our country is bullcrap. With my low expectations, I am still astonished that someone as crazy as Trump will actually be nominated for president. The Republican party has totally gone wacko, I wouldn’t trust it to run a Dairy Queen – to get a Blizzard you’d have to prove that you weren’t gay, were Christian, and didn’t use the Pill or never had an abortion. We are now officially near the old USSR in terms of choosing federal officials. With gerrymandering, nearly the only way to get rid of your Congressman is to have him quit, or die. It doesn’t matter if these guys get caught with hookers, or DUIs or whatever. The only thing that might get you tossed out is if you are found to be a pedophile, and that’s no guarantee you’re booted. We need more than these two corrupted parties (one being totally in chaos) as real choices, but that’s not happening. The only gov’t where you have some semblance of choice is local…

  18. blade3colorado's avatar blade3colorado said, on June 4, 2016 at 11:42 am

    If Hillary wants a united Democratic Party, she’ll add Warren or Sanders to the ticket . . . or else. Much likelier Warren will be the pick, despite concerns of a Mass. Republican governor selecting a Republican to fill her Senate seat. Additionally, she will have to change that “Super Delegate” bullshit for the next election. What else? Oh, Bernie’s review and approval of the Democratic platform at the convention, along with a prime time spiel by Bernie.

    You heard it here first. 🙂

    • snarkk's avatar snarkk said, on June 4, 2016 at 12:09 pm

      I think Warren would be a good choice, throwing a bone to the leftier side of the party, and cementing the women’s vote. Trump has already been trashing her, he has more than an inkling Warren could be #2 on the ticket and an attack dog against him. I am amazed at the gutter level of discourse Trump continues to spew against his opponents, perceived or real, and the flat out provable lies he just throws out there. It’s nothing I’ve ever seen/heard this is politics so far in my lifetime, and it seems to energize his followers, not bother them one bit. The fact that the guy used to call up reporters and radio stations in NYC under some fake name to give support to himself is just flat weird, but like everything else weird about the guy, his followers love him the more for it. This guy is not a Republican as far as I’ve come to know that term in this country. Since he’s their leader, I consider the Republican party to be dead, non-existent. It is now some strange brew of evangelicals with nowhere else to go, know nothings, science deniers, neo-confederates, just plain racists, pissed off white men, and anarchists…

      • zumiee's avatar zumiee said, on June 4, 2016 at 12:13 pm

        You said that well, in my opinion.

      • snarkk's avatar snarkk said, on June 4, 2016 at 12:17 pm

        Thanks, zum. Now back to ragging on Giants’ medicos… 😉

  19. Flavor's avatar Flavor said, on June 4, 2016 at 11:43 am

    not sure if this will format correctly, but check this out from Ali’s daughter:

    • blade3colorado's avatar blade3colorado said, on June 4, 2016 at 11:44 am

      Awesome! Thank you for sharing Flav!

  20. zumiee's avatar zumiee said, on June 4, 2016 at 12:03 pm

    Pence having the hamstring removed is not quite Lott having half an inch of his pinky finger removed, but it’s a little like that. Having a body part removed in order to get back on the field quicker.
    The MLB Network mentioned that Pagan had a hamstring removed by surgery last year, and it hastened his return to the field. The MLB Network meant that as a comforting thing to Giants fans. Well, that had the OPPOSITE effect of being comforting, by using Pagan as a comparison.

  21. zumiee's avatar zumiee said, on June 4, 2016 at 12:10 pm

    I looked online for articles clarifying hamstring removal, but I couldn’t really find a good article on it. There are so many variables and different scenarios. One thing I did learn is that we have more than one hamstring in the back of our leg, and the definition of hamstring itself is blurry. There is a lot going on in that area behind the human knee. The knee itself is highly complex, and not really set-up for a lot of the sports we put it through.

  22. zumiee's avatar zumiee said, on June 4, 2016 at 12:18 pm

    So, just winging it here: A torn hamstring bleeds, obviously, hence the swelling and black and blue of the area behind the leg. A completely torn hamstring can be surgically removed, and the leg can function without it (because the leg has more than one hamstring back there), after the post-op recovery, which would include some more bleeding and swelling. So, then it’s several weeks for the surgery to heal, and then a resumption of baseball-related activity.

  23. zumiee's avatar zumiee said, on June 4, 2016 at 12:20 pm

    I have a possibly dumb question: wouldn’t the removal of a hamstring then put more stress on the remaining hamstrings? I have no idea. Maybe it wouldn’t.

    • snarkk's avatar snarkk said, on June 4, 2016 at 12:33 pm

      Yep, you’re right, there are actually 3 or 4 “hamstrings”, depending on what you read, with similar, yet different purposes. Pence may have injured only one, but we’ll probably not know. I don’t know what they mean by removing one, I doubt an entire muscle is removed. Maybe they clean up the tear, and just don’t reattach it surgically, as the grow back could take much longer to heal. If the hamstring tendon is pulled off the bone, seems to me they have to re-attach the tendon, that’s not an option as the muscle balls up. The second link below shows actual hamstring surg photos, not for the faint of heart. After looking at that, Pence coming back in August seems wishful thinking…
      http://orthoinfo.aaos.org/topic.cfm?topic=a00408
      http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/39/8/569.full
      http://www.strengthandconditioningresearch.com/muscles/hamstrings/
      http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Hamstring+group

    • Locojuan's avatar Bozo said, on June 4, 2016 at 12:54 pm

      From what I read, there are apparently five tendons (hamstrings) behind the knee. The one that Pence tore is typically the one they use to replace a tendon in the elbow.
      I don’t know if removing one adds more stress but remember when Renteria had a tendon problem in his arm? He was able to start throwing again when the thing tore completely off (I remember what a weird thing that was back then).

  24. snarkk's avatar snarkk said, on June 4, 2016 at 12:21 pm

    The thing about Pence out is that Parker playing more puts the Gyros LU into an overwhelmingly lefty mode. OK for Bernie and all RH starter oppo, but a little tough in late innings against LH relievers in a close game…

  25. zumiee's avatar zumiee said, on June 4, 2016 at 12:29 pm

    Parker showed an encouraging sign in his last couple of ABs yesterday. He laid off of the junk in the dirt and drew a couple of walks which were part of rallies. Just smart baseball like that is what the Giants need to keep the conga-line moving.
    How about Bochy’s use of the squeeze play yesterday?! How cool was that?!

    • snarkk's avatar snarkk said, on June 4, 2016 at 12:34 pm

      Yeah, I heard the safety squeeze on the radio b-cast. Nice move to get that 5th run…

  26. zumiee's avatar zumiee said, on June 4, 2016 at 12:45 pm

    I don’t know if Daniel will see this, but I want to thank him again for the two links he posted of his reviews of two books about the Cardinals. The reviews were very in-depth and insightful.

    • Cardinal70's avatar Cardinal70 said, on June 4, 2016 at 5:55 pm

      Glad you liked them. Hope you’ll check the books out!

  27. zumiee's avatar zumiee said, on June 4, 2016 at 12:48 pm

    The White Sox are apparently close to a deal with the Padres on a trade for Shields.
    Maybe we go after Kemp? Just kidding, or am I?!

    • zumiee's avatar zumiee said, on June 4, 2016 at 12:51 pm

      OK, I just looked at Kemp’s contract. Yikes, no way. He’s owed $22 million a season until 2019!!!

    • snarkk's avatar snarkk said, on June 4, 2016 at 12:52 pm

      He’d be just a little better than a statue or Vlad Guerrero patrolling RF at ATT…

  28. zumiee's avatar zumiee said, on June 4, 2016 at 1:02 pm

    The Dodgers hit four solo HRs in their 4-2 win over the Braves last night. Three of the HRs were hit by Seager.
    It illustrates the most basic difference between the Giants’ and Dodgers’ offenses. The Giants are mostly about the conga-line, and the Dodgers are mostly about HRs. It’ll be interesting to see how the different approaches play out in the division race.
    The Giants have better pitching, overall, than the Dodgers; but the Dodgers, by far, have the better closer.
    A baseball season is an unfolding story. 🙂

  29. snarkk's avatar snarkk said, on June 4, 2016 at 1:03 pm

    In the NL, the Giants are 4th in OBP, 3rd in bases on balls, dead last in total # of strikeouts suffered. All good stuff. They should get their hitting in gear soon, and with that amount of getting on base, should score more. These stats are a huge change from the few short years ago when we had a squad full of guys just swinging at S all the time, with no plate discipline, including Panda leading that effort…

  30. Locojuan's avatar Bozo said, on June 4, 2016 at 1:15 pm

    The Giants have said in the past, that their drafts are usually picking the “best” player available at that time and it isn’t based on position.

    Look at the 2009 draft, our 1st round choice was Wheeler (6), we took him ahead of Minor and Leake (7 and 8). Probably not a bad choice except when you think about the Angels picking Trout at #25. The Giants and all those other teams passed on Trout. The thing is The Angels had three picks in the first round, besides # 25 they had #s 24 and 40. At #24 they picked another OFer ahead of Trout it was Randal Grichuk (the White Sox at # 23 also picked an OFer, someone named Jared Mitchell).
    Our picking Belt in the 5th round was pretty good call.
    So are we and all these other teams just plain stupid or is it a bit of a crap shoot after the first couple of picks? Not sure, but the Giants are probably fielding the most Home grown starters over any other team in MLB right now, so they must be doing something right.

  31. pawliekokonuts's avatar pawliekokonuts said, on June 4, 2016 at 1:22 pm

    Giants not the worst team in HISTORY at developing OFers: Mays, Kirkland, Wagner, the Alou brothers…

    • snarkk's avatar snarkk said, on June 4, 2016 at 2:05 pm

      Not in history, just in Sabes’ history…

  32. alleykat69's avatar alleykat69 said, on June 4, 2016 at 1:30 pm

    Their fastest OF of all time imo were all homegrown products I believe?So they had some magic potion drafting occasionally with Bonds,Matthews, and Maddox they could flat out run down any line drive..

    • pawliekokonuts's avatar pawliekokonuts said, on June 4, 2016 at 1:37 pm

      you know it…and many more will come to mind here

    • djloo27's avatar djloo27 said, on June 4, 2016 at 2:02 pm

      I think at one time they also had the oldest outfield of all time…Barry, Moises, Finley?
      They might have all been over 40!

  33. djloo27's avatar djloo27 said, on June 4, 2016 at 1:44 pm

    Maybe their success back then was because of their willingness to draft blacks and Latinos (Pirates, too)…
    Other teams were known to feel differently, I believe.

  34. djloo27's avatar djloo27 said, on June 4, 2016 at 1:54 pm

    I used to have a few beers with a great old guy here in Brooklyn who was drafted by the NY Giants. He didn’t go far but he played minor league ball with Kirkland and Bill White. I remember him saying that if those 2 ever forgot that they were black, there would always be someone in the stands to remind them. He also said that in Brooklyn, loving the Dodgers was like loving your mother – meaning it was kind of a given thing (unless you didn’t like your mother, I guess).

  35. Flavor's avatar Flavor said, on June 4, 2016 at 2:03 pm

    this was long, I had to watch it in a couple of sections. But for someone who didn’t have the best historical understanding of Ali, I found this to be exceptional.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJX7bgvBXAQ

  36. snarkk's avatar snarkk said, on June 4, 2016 at 2:04 pm

    Whatever happened to that Cuban OFer they got for $1.5 million about 2 years ago? And, that Gorkys Hernandez guy is at .740 OPS in Sac, whatever…

  37. Macdog's avatar Macdog said, on June 4, 2016 at 2:12 pm

    Mets catcher Plawecki having a tough day. He missed a tag at home on a Marlins baserunner when all he had to do was touch home since the bases were loaded. Plawecki then led off the next inning with a double — and was picked off second with Colon trying to bunt.

  38. Carstie Clausen's avatar Carstie Clausen said, on June 4, 2016 at 2:13 pm

    Zumiee: You haven’t been accessing websites independent from the mass media of mind control, mesmerization and general corporate-sponsored garbage…or at least to any degree. Hillary was the main push behind the attacks on Yugoslavia and Serbia; the coup d’ etat in Ukraine along with her Wicked Witch of the East Viccious Nudelman (aka “Cookies Nuland); the current pro-terrorist attempted takedown of Syria and most egregiously, the destruction of Libya and the murder of its leader Muamar Gaddhafi. She famously cackled when he was anally raped with a bayonet: “We saw, we came, he died.”

    The Clinton’s are money-grubbing materialists, always with hands out to the biggest polluters and most especially to the titans of the WarDefense industry like Lockheed-Martin with their Trillion dollar plus F-35 which aviation experts across the world laughingly denounce as the “F-35 Turkey”. Such models as have flown have been regularly bested in test combat by third-generation fighters. But the City of London bankster investors (prime shareholders) are delighted with those no-bid, cost-plus contracts.

    • Flavor's avatar Flavor said, on June 4, 2016 at 2:26 pm

      Stix. Enough already. Giants blog. Remember that.

      • Carstie Clausen's avatar Carstie Clausen said, on June 4, 2016 at 2:41 pm

        Okay, Flav. It’s a bit like Ali’s situation when it comes to free speech in this country. I get it. When political issues get raised, i tend to react, as i probably am the most deeply politically informed poster on this Giants blog. If such issues do not arise i tend to stick to the Giants and do not even generally wander off into football, basketball or hockey. Giants blog. Yes, that’s why i’m here.

      • Flavor's avatar Flavor said, on June 4, 2016 at 2:52 pm

        i don’t mind political talk. I just don’t want it to go overboard with mass media mind control bullshit

    • zumiee's avatar zumiee said, on June 4, 2016 at 2:42 pm

      Stix, I think if you go back and read what I wrote, I wasn’t really defending her all that much.
      In your first paragraph, in my opinion, you’re giving her too much credit on those things. Admittedly, you and I probably read different sources. But at this point in my life, I’m just not going to radically change my views on certain things. Hillary, in my view, always sees which way the wind blows before making a decision. There’s very little that’s “rogue” about her. I don’t think she really sits around trying to think of creative geo-political ideas.
      I think the bottom line on her is she wants to be the first woman president, and that would be a huge historic accomplishment, obviously, and everything else to her is kind of secondary to that. She’s not an inspiring speaker, and she’s actually a pretty terrible campaigner. She and Bill are often tone-deaf on the campaign trail. She did finally attack Trump pretty hard yesterday, so maybe that’s another shift in strategy.
      Your second paragraph describes at least 95% of our Congress. Again, Hillary is what she is. But that’s part of her campaign strategy. Her strategy seems to be “If you like me or don’t like me, at least I’m a known quantity. The other two candidates are too risky.”
      When I described Hillary as moderate, that’s just as much a statement of how far to the right the GOP has moved.

      • zumiee's avatar zumiee said, on June 4, 2016 at 2:43 pm

        Oops, I read BF’s post after posting that. Sorry. 🙂

  39. snarkk's avatar snarkk said, on June 4, 2016 at 2:41 pm

    Marty Lurie notes:
    Buster 2 for last 20; Belt 13 for last 28; Span 5 for 35 with RISP; Duffman 14 for 108 on the road (ouch). Duffy should get a few days off, and come back further down the order. He keeps hitting like this and I’ll be wondering if Evans can locate McDP…

    • zumiee's avatar zumiee said, on June 4, 2016 at 2:47 pm

      Duffy’s thing of going to the right side all the time is kind of played out. The other teams are on to it. They pitch him outside HOPING he’ll go to the right side because they’ve stacked their defense to the right. He needs to use more of the field.

      • snarkk's avatar snarkk said, on June 4, 2016 at 3:02 pm

        Agreed. I also think Belt should once in a while be able to block a few into the LF side of the diamond to beat the shift everybody throws on him. Hell, he pushes one down to where the 3rd baseman should be, and he has a double. When he first came up, he used to hit oppo field all the time, with power. I think they’ve turned him into a pull guy. This shift business now is all the rage, I think hitters should be non-compliant and try to beat it…

    • Flavor's avatar Flavor said, on June 4, 2016 at 2:54 pm

      Duffy is still hitting the ball hard. He’s a line drive machine. I’m fine with him staying in the LU. Hits will start to fall.

      • snarkk's avatar snarkk said, on June 4, 2016 at 3:04 pm

        You keep saying it BF, hope they start to fall…

    • Carstie Clausen's avatar Carstie Clausen said, on June 4, 2016 at 4:14 pm

      Been on the move Duffy outta the three-hole hotseat for weeks now. Welcome aboard, Snarkk.

  40. gianthead's avatar gianthead said, on June 4, 2016 at 3:04 pm

    Who here on the Flap advocated the year before we sign James Shields????? 🙂

    F Him and his contract and let the White Sox enjoy. I think we need a better option than Markakis but screw Francouer. I laid out the players who make sense to me besides Osuna. Pearce or Souza seems a logical solution….

  41. zumiee's avatar zumiee said, on June 4, 2016 at 3:05 pm

    Dodgers game is on the MLB Network tonight, though I don’t think we’re going to get any help from the Braves tonight, as they face Kershaw. It’s not just that Kershaw’s a great pitcher, but the umps are really on his side now, in a Tom Glavine kind of way. Everything close to the plate is going to Kershaw. A quick 2-0 victory, and the umps are out of there in 2 1/2 hours or less.

    • zumiee's avatar zumiee said, on June 4, 2016 at 3:16 pm

      Used to drive me nuts the way the umps gave Glavine such a wide strikezone.
      And Kershaw gets that curveball wrap-around strike way more than anyone else. All pitchers want that strike, but Kershaw gets it a lot more. It’s frustrating to Bum, because he can’t get that call more often.

      • djloo27's avatar djloo27 said, on June 4, 2016 at 4:03 pm

        I don’t think I ever hated a team and their broadcasters as much as the ’93 Braves.
        Except maybe the 4X Stanley Cup winning Islanders…

  42. gianthead's avatar gianthead said, on June 4, 2016 at 3:12 pm

    The thing I like about Hillary is she is a neo-con on foreign policy….just pulling your leg Flav…

  43. Flavor's avatar Flavor said, on June 4, 2016 at 3:37 pm

    gonna have to put out the bomb-call for Duffy tonight just so Snarkk can have an easy breezy night. 🙂

    • snarkk's avatar snarkk said, on June 4, 2016 at 4:04 pm

      You’re worrying me. 😉
      You keep saying Duffy will come around, and Duvall is a POS — though he’s hitting HRs like a damn machine.
      Yep, put out the bomb call for Duffy, or turn on the Duff signal, whatever works…

  44. James's avatar James said, on June 4, 2016 at 4:07 pm

    Duffy has a good LD%, but the % of ABs where he hits the ball “hard” is below average. Presumably Fangraphs has defined ranges based on the statcast MPH numbers. The starter who has had the worst luck on the team is Posey: http://tinyurl.com/jr966jd

    • djloo27's avatar djloo27 said, on June 4, 2016 at 4:09 pm

      They have a bad luck stat now?

      • James's avatar James said, on June 4, 2016 at 4:17 pm

        Would you prefer a good luck stat?

      • snarkk's avatar snarkk said, on June 4, 2016 at 4:18 pm

        The good luck stat shows Jeter hitting a career 1000…

      • snarkk's avatar snarkk said, on June 4, 2016 at 4:26 pm

        BTW, Jeter is getting married this July in Napa. I’m waiting for my invitation in the mail. Coincidence that he’s no longer under contract for big bucks and now getting married? Nah, that pre-marital separate property is a freekin’ big number…

      • djloo27's avatar djloo27 said, on June 4, 2016 at 4:58 pm

        I wouldn’t be surprised if he uses a tape of Bob Shepherd to introduce him and his bride for the first time as Mr. & Mrs. Derek Jeter…

      • wilcojoe's avatar wilcojoe said, on June 4, 2016 at 5:11 pm

        That’s Gold Loo!

  45. snarkk's avatar snarkk said, on June 4, 2016 at 4:15 pm

    June 3rd yesterday. Hot and muggy here, and in St. Louis, too. All kind of reminded me of this. She’s living somewhere in Mississippi now, dropped out of sight years ago…

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tR97ITFD76M

    • djloo27's avatar djloo27 said, on June 4, 2016 at 4:20 pm

      Pass the black-eyed peas!!!

  46. snarkk's avatar snarkk said, on June 4, 2016 at 4:20 pm

    Why is Panik getting thrown out at 3rd with no outs?
    Giants baserunning is F’d up so far this year…

    • zumiee's avatar zumiee said, on June 4, 2016 at 4:22 pm

      Yes.

    • djloo27's avatar djloo27 said, on June 4, 2016 at 4:22 pm

      Giant baserunners never had a lick o’ sense;
      Pass the biscuits, please…

      • snarkk's avatar snarkk said, on June 4, 2016 at 4:30 pm

        Well, it’s a shame about Panik, anyhow…

      • djloo27's avatar djloo27 said, on June 4, 2016 at 4:35 pm

        LULZ!

      • djloo27's avatar djloo27 said, on June 4, 2016 at 4:43 pm

        Still lulzing here, Snarkk!

  47. gianthead's avatar gianthead said, on June 4, 2016 at 4:21 pm

    Decker 3b coach? Is this a one day thing?

    • snarkk's avatar snarkk said, on June 4, 2016 at 4:51 pm

      Kelly’s gone to attend a graduation. Not his from 3rd base coaching school, unfortunately…

      • djloo27's avatar djloo27 said, on June 4, 2016 at 5:01 pm

        You are scorching, Snarkk…

  48. Flavor's avatar Flavor said, on June 4, 2016 at 4:22 pm

    few things dumber than getting thrown out at 3rd with no one out.

  49. djloo27's avatar djloo27 said, on June 4, 2016 at 4:28 pm

    I must’ve known at least 20 kids named Aledmys back in high school…

    • Flavor's avatar Flavor said, on June 4, 2016 at 4:34 pm

      lol, Loo you are always on. 100% gold 24/7

      • djloo27's avatar djloo27 said, on June 4, 2016 at 4:37 pm

        Not in real life…

      • Flavor's avatar Flavor said, on June 4, 2016 at 5:36 pm

        well, I choose to believe this is how you are 24/7

  50. djloo27's avatar djloo27 said, on June 4, 2016 at 4:34 pm

    Those Kobe commercials give me douche chills…

  51. djloo27's avatar djloo27 said, on June 4, 2016 at 4:41 pm

    Dzija see that?

  52. snarkk's avatar snarkk said, on June 4, 2016 at 4:43 pm

    Samardz with the Samingle, and RBI!…

  53. alleykat69's avatar alleykat69 said, on June 4, 2016 at 4:43 pm

    Shark attack delivers the RBI!

  54. djloo27's avatar djloo27 said, on June 4, 2016 at 4:45 pm

    As Nipper used to say on the Splash: CHOMP!!!

  55. djloo27's avatar djloo27 said, on June 4, 2016 at 4:54 pm

    Duffy might prefer being moved out of the 3 hole, but would never say it….

  56. snarkk's avatar snarkk said, on June 4, 2016 at 4:55 pm

    Duffy hit it hard, but again into right.
    For him, seems like nothin’ ever comes to no good up on that right field shift…

  57. willedav's avatar willedav said, on June 4, 2016 at 5:01 pm

    Hella nice grab by Duffy there.

  58. alleykat69's avatar alleykat69 said, on June 4, 2016 at 5:01 pm

    Duffman’s glove work was exceptional on that foul pop up.Most impressive play worthy of a gem cam ..

  59. snarkk's avatar snarkk said, on June 4, 2016 at 5:05 pm

    Later dudes, gotta go out to an emergency wine tasting at the local wine shop…

  60. unca_chuck's avatar unca_chuck said, on June 4, 2016 at 5:07 pm

    Belt trying to go oppo . . .

  61. djloo27's avatar djloo27 said, on June 4, 2016 at 5:09 pm

    Could you imagine this team with Pablo at his best?

  62. unca_chuck's avatar unca_chuck said, on June 4, 2016 at 5:11 pm

    Too bad that didn’t roll into the dugout. Nice, Brandon!

  63. unca_chuck's avatar unca_chuck said, on June 4, 2016 at 5:13 pm

    Gregor!!! El Tiburon Blanco!

  64. willedav's avatar willedav said, on June 4, 2016 at 5:14 pm

    sacfly ribeye luv it.

  65. alleykat69's avatar alleykat69 said, on June 4, 2016 at 5:14 pm

    That was great base running by Crawdaddy going for that 3bagger, and then gets the run on the sac fly!
    Great job!

  66. djloo27's avatar djloo27 said, on June 4, 2016 at 5:16 pm

    “Fun and fundamentals”
    -Charlie Fox

  67. gianthead's avatar gianthead said, on June 4, 2016 at 5:23 pm

    White Russians have been poured for the Sharks…

    • Lurker John's avatar Lurker John said, on June 4, 2016 at 5:35 pm

      Nice. Always makes me think of The Big Lebowski.

  68. Lurker John's avatar Lurker John said, on June 4, 2016 at 5:34 pm

    This is only the second time I’ve seen Samardzija, but this guy has some serious cheese. That 4th inning every speed ball he threw hit 97 mph with nasty movement. I can see why the Giants coveted him. The defensive play he made was nice too. He moves like a cat and and he can swing the bat.

  69. blade3colorado's avatar blade3colorado said, on June 4, 2016 at 5:36 pm

    Not certain many of you heard about Arenado blowing up in the first inning after Kemp’s bomb last night. Oh yeah, Upton stole home plate as well . . . It was the first straight steal of home by a Padres player since Everth Cabrera on July 14, 2012, at the Dodgers. Anywho, I concluded a couple of things from last night’s game:

    In his first trip through arbitration this winter, Arenado took home a hefty (relative to other first-time arb players) $5 million payday, and he’ll go through that process three more times due to his status as a Super Two player before hitting the open market following the 2019 season. The $5 million is peanuts. Conclusion? Arenado is DEFINITELY NOT RESIGNING WITH THE ROCKIES IN 2019.

    The Arenado incident illustrates the smallness or cluelessness of Walt Weiss – Why hasn’t he had an “Arenado moment” during the entire time he has managed this clusterfuck? Blowing up in the dugout (preferred) or at least one behind closed doors, where he overturns the post buffet table spread and lets loose with a torrent of f bombs would show he at least cares and is in charge. To the best of my knowledge, this has never happened. In short, Weiss comes off as being a tool for the Monforts/Bridich.

    • willedav's avatar willedav said, on June 4, 2016 at 5:39 pm

      this was discussed on mlb net last night. One guy said Arenado was out of line for not taking it into the tunnel, other guy said if Weiss let it go then it didn’t bother him.
      arenado later admitted he was wrong and should have taken discussion out of the dugout.
      Makes you wonder.

      • blade3colorado's avatar blade3colorado said, on June 4, 2016 at 5:48 pm

        Arenado is frustrated with losing. He cares. The team is rudderless with Weiss. Ask any fan in Colorado and they will tell you that. They’re also very positive about what Arenado did. It was needed.

  70. willedav's avatar willedav said, on June 4, 2016 at 5:36 pm

    killer change from Wacha he’s got a number of Giants with it.
    When he leaves ball up tho they are making him pay.

  71. Flavor's avatar Flavor said, on June 4, 2016 at 5:38 pm

    Buck is such a tool.
    “The Giants have a pitcher they really like in Albert Suarez…”
    Really? We REALLY LIKE him? The fucking brass didn’t even know who he was 2 weeks ago…..

    • willedav's avatar willedav said, on June 4, 2016 at 5:41 pm

      yeah I think they like the other Suarez in the minors (Andrew?) better.
      I advocated for Moss a year ago. He hit for Oakland, not a hitters yard, and does have some pop, low OB..
      Not a great OF sure, but I like the guy….more than Jay Bruce anyway.

  72. Lurker John's avatar Lurker John said, on June 4, 2016 at 5:45 pm

    I sat and watched some douche on MLBN defend Arenado’s despicable display for about 10 minutes while Dan Plesac and Harry Reynolds told him how wrong he was and why, which boiled down to you don’t blow up a teammate in the fucking dugout. The douche guy kept saying he loved Arenado’s passion and how he was sick of losing, blah, blah, blah. That’s great, but not the way you go about it in baseball. It just isn’t. Baseball is still a relatively conservative sport and there are ways you do things and ways you don’t.

    That type of display pisses off the old-schoolers big time.

    • blade3colorado's avatar blade3colorado said, on June 4, 2016 at 5:51 pm

      You’re wrong. You have no idea about the situation in Colorado.

    • Lurker John's avatar Lurker John said, on June 4, 2016 at 5:55 pm

      I can certainly follow it from afar. Colorado stinks, Weiss is out of his depth, Arenado is their best player, I get it. You don’t embarrass a teammate in public, you take it to the clubhouse. You think Bochy would put up with it?

      • blade3colorado's avatar blade3colorado said, on June 4, 2016 at 6:02 pm

        Of course not. Apples and oranges LJ. Making that comparison is ludicrous. Bochy is in charge and has shown that, e.g., most recently with Casilla. Weiss has not.

      • blade3colorado's avatar blade3colorado said, on June 4, 2016 at 6:04 pm

        By the by, outside media has it wrong – it was not directed at any team mate (i.e., Hundley). Just a convenient excuse. Arenado said that afterwards and Hundley agreed.

      • Lurker John's avatar Lurker John said, on June 4, 2016 at 6:18 pm

        You forget that I read virtually of your posts, blade, so I do get details about the situation in Colorado. My point is valid. You were supporting Arenado’s display (“preferred”) not Weiss’s handling of it. Arenado is a grown man. He can go to Weiss on his own and air his grievances. I’m not absolving Weiss of shit, I hope he does stink as a manager because it helps the Giants. I’m only criticizing the manner in which Arenado handled the situation.

        And I appreciate them circling the wagons after the fact, but I saw the video, Arenado was in Hundley’s face the entire time, no one else’s, and Hundley didn’t look too happy about it.

  73. Lurker John's avatar Lurker John said, on June 4, 2016 at 5:50 pm

    The Shark is laboring in the 5th. Lot of pitches.

  74. Lurker John's avatar Lurker John said, on June 4, 2016 at 5:51 pm

    unbelievable

  75. alleykat69's avatar alleykat69 said, on June 4, 2016 at 5:54 pm

    Pitch #80 was not kind for Smores..
    3-0 pitch and they let the kid loose, gutsy call, smart call.


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