THE San Francisco Giants Blog

Winning in Spite of Your Leader

Posted in Uncategorized by Flavor on September 10, 2016

“It’s all good baby, baby….it was all a dream…..”
But it wasn’t a dream, Biggie Smalls. All that stuff really happened. Gearrin was in left field. Casilla was allowed to pitch again and blew another save. And yet somehow, at 12:05am, the Giants won the game. A strange number of Flappers including those on the east coast were here live as human confirmation of all of it.

Question: Has Bruce Bochy gone mad? Or senile? Or does he just give 15 fucks less than he gave the day before? Maybe he’s now controlled by the mob and he screwed up losing last night’s direct order.

Another consideration: Bochy is trying to stick it to Casilla. Teach him a lesson. But would he do that at the expense of the season?

How about this one: Bochy hasn’t changed at all. Sobering thought…..

All I know is that a bunch of Giants fans are walking around tired today because Bochy is managing games like a quick pick lotto machine spitting out losing tickets. The pattern is now undeniable.

He seems to have lost his edge…..

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155 Responses

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  1. sandog said, on September 10, 2016 at 6:46 am

    I’m not sure what the hell was going through Bochy’s mind. He’s been going lefty/righty like crazy lately and all of the sudden he gives the whole inning to a guy who has been a mess. Maybe he WAS trying to jump start Casilla (and the team) by having him conquer his own personal Moby Dick. Bizarre logic, if so. Or maybe he thinks so many of those bullpen guys suck that Casilla still has the best chance to convert the save. At any rate, that was one hell of a wild ride.
    @ Loo: David Szott
    I have been sleep deprived all week and was in a weird state of mind last night watching all of that go down. But her reaction to the homerun with something like this:

  2. willedav said, on September 10, 2016 at 6:55 am

    I was on cbs site game tracker and Baggs said before it happened no way Casilla should be allowed to pitch to Lamb. Most others agreed, including Lurie Pavs and Schulman, before it happened, with Smith warming up. They all tweeted something about Lamb being in on deck circle. Bochy appears only one surprised by the result.

    Everyone else on the committee looked good last night, tho Gearrin is just excruciating to watch. Still a W, confounding tho it was.

  3. willedav said, on September 10, 2016 at 7:04 am

    I want to see more of Specs, but no idea where he plays. Same for Mac/Parker; Hernandez is a good CF too and can’t be worse hitter than Span right now.

    • Flavor said, on September 10, 2016 at 7:54 am

      agree big time on Gorkey’s replacing Span who can’t hit or field anymore. I like Specs off the bench tho

  4. mrsprtdude said, on September 10, 2016 at 8:22 am

    Another consideration is how this Casilla thing effects the younger pitchers. We all know confidence means something. Bochy says effectively…”This guy sucks, and we will likely lose if i bring him in to close, but I trust you even less”. Now any words he chooses to show confidence in them will be meaningless.

    Something to ponder…
    If you took the name off the jersey and just discussed the bullpen mismanagement, the players under-performing, the long bout of losing, and the apparent lack of energy and urgency and we would be clamoring to have this manager fired.
    Hasn’t this years Bochy compared less favorably than the Dodgers Mattingly??

  5. dirtnrocksnomo said, on September 10, 2016 at 8:55 am

    People don’t change man so when it comes to Bochy I’m going with the sobering thought. I try to withhold judgement on the manager until the season ends. The club’s second half nose dive makes that a tough thing to do but if they make it into the post season anything can happen.

  6. snarkk said, on September 10, 2016 at 8:57 am

    zum’s comment late last night on that Pence catch is well taken. Awesome effort. Remember that catch he mad at ATT up against the wall that was made into a T-shirt? This one would be, too, if it were at ATT. The guy has grit, I’ll give him that. He was player of the game last night for hits and D. Without that catch, the batter is on third at least with one out I think — so it likely saved the game so they could play on and further aggravate us until they won it…

  7. willedav said, on September 10, 2016 at 9:05 am

    Strick Romo and Kontos as RHP were all in before Casilla. He was next man up, so I don’t think it says anything to others. Every guy that gives up a hit or a run wants to be run out there again, just like a hitter who has an 0-fer; I think it said more when he yanked him the other night and brought in Osich to face LH.

    Law supposed to be ready next week. Gives Bochy another RHP to run out there critical situation. Nathan was really the guy that saved things and set up guys are often in tougher situations than closer is…imo more valuable.

    and yes, there are a number of high priced closers that will be FAs in off season if Giants want to go that route.

  8. snarkk said, on September 10, 2016 at 9:05 am

    No matter what happens in post-season, I think Bochy needs to think seriously about hanging up the spikes. He’s maybe got some health issues. He’s definitely got plenty of dough. He can be a FO consultant. This second half nosedive has tarnished the sheen on his manager’s medal. Then last night, the entire universe of Giantdom was yelling No No No at bringing in Casilla to close; and then NO NO HELL NO to face Lamb. Even the milquetoast beat writers were twittering WTF bon mots when Casilla came in. But, well, we all saw it. I hope to hell the Giants sneak into the WC, win it, play the Cubs and beat them, and go onto the WS. That would be a great way for Bochy to go out. Whatever happens, though, he should seriously think about walking away…

  9. pawliekokonuts said, on September 10, 2016 at 9:07 am

    The Day After: Hangover Redux Upchux:

    I didn’t watch watch the game, so looking at highlights the day after tells me: 1. DEFENSE won the game. Pence’s imitation of Pete Reiser and Crawford to Posey at the plate. (No, Span, I’m not including you and your ragdoll arm and error.) 2. Specs. 3. Bum sucked. 4. Gearrin has played more LF on this trip than Williamson. 5. Those 0 for 6s don’t look so hot on the resume…. 6. Trevor Brown, where was he? or 000? G’night.

    • snarkk said, on September 10, 2016 at 9:13 am

      I luv #4. Where TF is Williamson? The guy was starring in Boston and NY, now he’s invisible…

      • pawliekokonuts said, on September 10, 2016 at 9:23 am

        I stole it from Twitter.

  10. pawliekokonuts said, on September 10, 2016 at 9:12 am

    I think Bochy’s reasoning goes like this: Casilla’s been a good soldier. I’m loyal to my men. I’ll make him more of a man than he knew he could be, in the heat of battle. My hunch pays off, he’ll be worth a million bucks from here on out. Benevolent and cagey and playing a weird hunch. BUT UTTERLY MISGUIDED. Can’t happen again.

    • snarkk said, on September 10, 2016 at 9:18 am

      Bochy pulled Casilla in a previous game to avoid facing Lamb again, because Lamb has owned him (now 4 for 8, all 4 = HRs). And Casilla was pissed. IMO, this was a payback by Bochy to let Casilla chase some demons. And, yes, a totally misguided move. IMO he had to bring in Nathan to start that save chance. Casilla was way damaged goods from that last meltdown. Ol’ Boch just can’t help himself. This Pen is a mess, and he can’t figure it out. What does it say to the rest of team when they scratch and claw to take a lead to the 9th, and Boch keeps putting this Gas Bomb in?…

      • pawliekokonuts said, on September 10, 2016 at 9:25 am

        Well, you can’t say the ‘pen is a mess across the board. Come to think of it, 2 runs after Bum is pretty damn good through 12.

  11. dirtnrocksnomo said, on September 10, 2016 at 9:25 am

    If anything this nosedive makes Bochy more likely to come back regardless of the outcome. My guess is we’ll see a staff shakeup.

    Last night was nutso. The Gearrin move was something else. I seem to remember LaRussa pulling that in the post season a few years back. Hey, a W is a W and they gained a half game in the division.

    • pawliekokonuts said, on September 10, 2016 at 9:29 am

      I love the Gearrin move. That’s fine. It’s how we got there. He should play all scrubs today for the first 4. ALL. No one who played last night should start. I take that back. Pence would eat the bench.

      • dirtnrocksnomo said, on September 10, 2016 at 9:37 am

        Fair point. Other than Posey we probably see the same LU. Tomlinson has hit his way into more PT but where do you put him? I agree with others that want to see Gorky in there. He had a pretty good year in Sacramento and Span is terrible. I suspect Span’s legs are bothering him but they’re still running him out there thinking he’s the best option.

  12. alleykat69 said, on September 10, 2016 at 9:34 am

    Alright it’s Saturday morning and as they say on Murph&Mac “I got my coffee or “I Need a fresh pot”!!!!
    So since I can’t stand this guy to know ends and he cost me some potential nookie as well last night I’m rolling out some Santiago Casilla jokes for my own sanity!!
    Q..What do you get when you breed Casilla and a groundhog?
    A…Six more weeks of bad pitching.
    Q..What is the new cologne that is creating a lot of buzz?
    A..You wear it and the other team scores!
    Q..What is the difference between Casilla and a baby?
    A…The baby will stop whining after awhile..
    Q..What do Santiago Casilla and a possum have in common?
    A..Both play dead at home and get killed on the road!
    Q..What is the difference between SC and a mosquito?
    A..A mosquito will eventually stop sucking!!!!!!!
    Q..Why did Michael Jackson like to practice hitting against Santiago Casilla?
    A..Because he got to see lots of balls.
    Q…How does Santigo Casilla and his team spend the 1st week of ST?
    A…Studying the Miranda Rights..
    Q…Why does Santiago Casilla always smile during lightening storms?
    A.. He thinks his picture is being taken!

  13. blade3colorado said, on September 10, 2016 at 9:34 am

    I had issues with Bochy’s managing last night too (and other games as well). However, he isn’t an idiot or suddenly just became an idiot. Review his comments post game – this game and others – he mostly is logical about his moves. Frequently, he’s not only making a move for the situation at hand, but also long term, e.g., see snarkk and Pawlie’s comments about building up Casilla’s confidence. Additionally, I thought the move where Cory Gearrin played outfield was brilliant.

    Nothing happens in a vacuum, i.e., Casilla’s meltdowns are being discussed frequently by upper management and Bochy. It’s a delicate situation, not too dissimilar to past ones involving Timmy, Zito, Rowand, and more recently, Peavy and Cain. Remember, Casilla isn’t some “chump has been” like Uggla or Benitez. Nope. Casilla was a key member of all 3 World Series championship seasons.

    Perhaps, this article provides a little bit of context (or not) about Bochy’s moves last night.

    http://m.giants.mlb.com/news/article/200477542/cory-gearrin-plays-outfield-gets-save/

    Me? I am not going to throw Bochy under the bus, when in my mind – the players are mostly to blame for this 2nd half fiasco. Bochy is just plugging in players into situations where 9 times out of 10 they use to perform admirably . . . but today, 9 times out of 10, they face plant.

    • dirtnrocksnomo said, on September 10, 2016 at 9:46 am

      Sure a lot of it is one the players but Kelly in the 3b box and Casilla v Lamb last night, those decisions are on Bochy and its legitimate to question the moves. Generally I agree with you though. I’m not ready to throw him under the bus yet but put it this way, we’re leaning under the front bumper checking things out.

    • blade3colorado said, on September 10, 2016 at 9:46 am

      Also, I agree unequivocally with Chris Haft that intangibles such as trading Matt Duffy for Moore have been a factor in this dumpster fire 2nd half Giants performance:

      “It can safely be said, however, that third baseman Matt Duffy’s departure for Tampa in the Matt Moore deal upset the chemistry that the Giants have held so dear through most of Bochy’s 10-year managerial tenure. They jettisoned the winner of last year’s Willie Mac award whose sheer passion for the game earned him that honor. No longer could San Francisco brag about the all-homegrown infield which seemed to be such a source of pride. Duffy wasn’t indispensable, and maybe his Achilles strain would have limited his value as a player. His inclusion in the package of players the Giants yielded for Moore reportedly was necessary to execute the trade. Nevertheless, something was irretrievably lost with Duffy’s departure. And nobody can deny that Duffy’s injury, combined with the ailments that concurrently sidelined second baseman Joe Panik and right fielder Hunter Pence, significantly impeded the Giants’ progress.”

      http://m.giants.mlb.com/news/article/200275760/intangibles-a-factor-for-giants-in-final-month/

      • blade3colorado said, on September 10, 2016 at 9:49 am

        Of course, James and others would probably disagree with me. They would point out that “chemistry” has little or nothing to do with how teams perform.

      • dirtnrocksnomo said, on September 10, 2016 at 9:55 am

        I like Haft but I think the Duffy/chemistry thing has been overblown. If it hasn’t then the players need to get the F over it already. Duffy played 20 games in Tampa, went back on the shelf and it’s reported that he had Achilles surgery yesterday. The club had to do something at 3b.

      • blade3colorado said, on September 10, 2016 at 9:59 am

        Dirt, in fairness to Haft – Duffy is just one example that he points out in his column. Crawford, Cueto, Bumgarner, Smarg, Belt, Posey, and the list goes on and on . . . Or, as he said,

        “The state of the Giants cannot be pinned to any single reason or individual. Team slumps as well as team surges are always collaborative.”

      • snarkk said, on September 10, 2016 at 10:01 am

        Saying the team needs to get over it doesn’t mean it isn’t real or that they can. Haft isn’t the first guy to report on this Duffy thing. I’ve been looking for an overriding explanation for this fall off the cliff, and that seems plausible, even if we reject it as stupid or unprofessional. Why else would an entire lineup go into a collective hitting tailspin for half a season? Baseball players are creatures of habit; they aren’t Nobel Prize winners. The entire WhiteSox team got pissed because management said no you can’t bring your 12-year old kid into the locker room all the time, and not on the road. Maybe Duffy was seen as the rabbit’s foot…

      • blade3colorado said, on September 10, 2016 at 10:09 am

        I apologize for only pointing out Duffy. Yes, he was (and is) a favorite of mine, but as I just said to Dirt – Haft is only throwing out Duffy as one or many, many reasons for the Giants failure in the 2nd half. I stand by what I said on Facebook (blaming anyone and everyone), as well as posting this fan’s hilarious rant:

        http://www.yardbarker.com/mlb/articles/the_sf_giants_are_falling_apart_and_one_fan_is_losing_his_mind/s1_14326_21780634

        As this dude points out, there are literally dozens of reasons why this team is now the worst in all of MLB.

      • dirtnrocksnomo said, on September 10, 2016 at 10:11 am

        blade, I thought Haft’s column was good and you’re right he mentioned a lot of other things. I renewed my MLB app subscription and get video again. I really like the condensed game feed. I wish I could get that app on my TV. Then I would cut the cord for sure.

    • snarkk said, on September 10, 2016 at 9:52 am

      Bochy has the 3 trophies. That’s fantastic. But, teams don’t stop playing after winning titles. We can genuflect and bask all we want to the past glory, and give blame to the players where most of it lies, but reality is Bochy has been the Chief Engineer on this 2-month train wreck. Any other manager with a team that has this kind of talent and payroll would be under big time pressure for being the worst team in baseball since the AS break. You get credit for winning, you gotta take heat for losing. I’m thinking that Flannery’s leaving has something to do with this team’s failures…

  14. Flavor said, on September 10, 2016 at 9:43 am

    I tend to side with Dirt on this—Bochy isn’t doing anything different that he always has done. He’s rollin’ from the womb to the tomb with HIS GUYS. When it works out, he’s a HOF manager. When it doesn’t, he’s an idiot. So I think it’s safe to say Bochy is far from a brilliant mind but he definitely has had things go his way more times than not, especially before this season. But this season…..

    • snarkk said, on September 10, 2016 at 9:57 am

      He’s a Magician with the Pen. When the Pen guys are nails, anyway. Now that the core 4 is 3, and the 3 aren’t so hot anymore, well, the Magician needs a refresher course at Hogwarts…

  15. dirtnrocksnomo said, on September 10, 2016 at 9:50 am

    The only thing missing in last night’s game was a Samardzija pinch running appearance. I bet you he would have slid into home whereas Span just jogged in. I don’t know if you know this but he played college ball and is a great athlete.

    • Flavor said, on September 10, 2016 at 10:09 am

      he played college baseball dawg, that doesn’t make him a great athlete. It doesn’t preclude him from being one, but…..

  16. blade3colorado said, on September 10, 2016 at 10:11 am

    There’s an Art and Food festival literally right outside my door right now and I am going to forget about the Giants and enjoy some culture and food.

    https://www.belmarcolorado.com/festivalitaliano

    Enjoy your day fellas . . . 🙂

    • alleykat69 said, on September 10, 2016 at 10:57 am

      Say hi to Panda for me Blade!!

      • pawliekokonuts said, on September 10, 2016 at 1:25 pm

        hahaha

  17. snarkk said, on September 10, 2016 at 10:15 am

    Where are you dudes on Span?
    Major disappointment to me, partly because management touted this guy as pretty good, and paid him some pretty nice coin.
    I think the guy has been hurt all season, after having a bunch of surgery last year. He could be permanently damaged goods. This looks like Baalke drafting guys with torn ACLs.
    They’ve gotta trot him out again next Spring Training, but man. Hernandez shows was a real CF can do with the glove out there. And, he has legs. I’d play Hernandez over Span rest of season. But, again, the Giants play guys holding the big contracts until its beyond painful…

  18. unca_chuck said, on September 10, 2016 at 10:17 am

    Weird night last night I was laying in bed watching gamecast, and at some time around 12:30 I fell asleep in the top of the 12th with 2 on and none out. When I woke up 3 hours later my phone was dead and I couldn’t find out who won.

    Fell back to sleep and kept dreaming of the outcome. Good and bad. When woke up my phone was still dead and of course the Denver paper didn’t have the late score. Had to wait to charge my phone enough to check.

    Weird shit. I guess the moral of he story is, if you think team chemistry is a thing, then losing Duffy is an upsetter of that chemistry. No one really knows except for the folks in the locker room, but I’d imagine that something was lost. What is telling is there’ doesn’t seem to be any excitement in the dugout during games as was previously. Maybe it’s all the losing or maybe it’s camraderie that is missing.

  19. Flavor said, on September 10, 2016 at 10:28 am

    I am 100% firmly in the camp of *Duffy leaving didn’t sink this ship*. But I do think there is a chemistry thing in terms of team energy. I’ve been paying attention to the dugout reactions for a while now (well, like 2 weeks). Kruk is oblivious, a run will score and he’ll say “and watch the Giants dugout go crazy!” and I watch and it’s like 2 dudes who stood up to see if the ball falls and maybe a dude or two who fist pumps the air.
    Anyone else seeing this? There’s no Panda or Pat the Bat riling everyone up. Pence isn’t even doing it anymore.

    • dirtnrocksnomo said, on September 10, 2016 at 10:32 am

      Yeah, I’ve noticed that with Kuip too. lulz.

      Pence is out there flying around making plays. Maybe he’ll get everyone fired up.

  20. dirtnrocksnomo said, on September 10, 2016 at 10:29 am

    Span? Dude sucks. Even when he’s hitting all you’ve got is a slappy singles hitter. I think it was willie or mac that mentioned how many times he’s gotten to a ball only to have it bounce out of his glove. Not like he barely got leather on it but it landed in the webbing or pocket of his glove and he couldn’t finish the play. WTF is that about? I’m not going to look up the stats but he’s got to be in the bottom half of the league for defensive metrics. Would it of been better to keep Pagan out there? Probably not but it wasn’t much of an upgrade. I prefer Gorky all around and was surprised he didn’t come up sooner. I guess management wanted him to get regular playing time or something.

    • Flavor said, on September 10, 2016 at 10:35 am

      He’s in the bottom 5. Baggs posted it the other day on twitter

    • snarkk said, on September 10, 2016 at 10:49 am

      I admit, I’m a broken record. But, this is the bullshit outfield choices you get when haven’t developed your own MLB quality OFers for 2 friggin decades. The Giants will not pay for top quality FA outfielders, or if they will pay for select ones, the guys won’t come to ATT because it is death for power hitters unless they’re dead pull Right handed guys…

    • sandog said, on September 10, 2016 at 10:53 am

      Span’s got 9 homers. One less than future HOF’r/Gonna be better than Buster/somehow avoids ever getting criticized Joe Panik. Hell, 9 homers on this team puts you in the hunt for the team lead.

      • alleykat69 said, on September 10, 2016 at 11:06 am

        Shit Dawg,
        That’s a shitload of homers compared to Randy Winn’s final year with 2 in freaking 550 plus at bats and Bochy ever the loyalist to the end bless his heart,rode him the whole season long out in RF,even when all of us were yelling Nate, Nate,Nate
        Shit now that I think of it nothing does really change with Boch’s obsession with his vets even when their done and overcooked like the Turkey in “Christmas Vacation”

    • Lurker John said, on September 10, 2016 at 12:31 pm

      Goddamn right. He’s shit for a CF and his approach at the plate sucks. That stupid toe-pointing-the-wrong-way schtick has got to go. Does he think shit like that is going to magically make him hit better? His gaffe in the outfield may well have cost Bum his 15th win. And don’t get me going on the play at the plate last night. He looked like he didn’t give a hit whether he scored or not. Frankly, I don’t think he likes to get his uni dirty.

      As of right now a *bad* signing by the Giants.

  21. alleykat69 said, on September 10, 2016 at 10:54 am

    Yeah I agree with Dirt that Boch will be determined to comeback and patch the holes in the Titanic!
    But he,Sabes, Evans, have to seriously revamp the coaching staff and roster!
    Automatic jettisons for me, Retardo Kelly,Billy Hayes,and why isn’t BamBam Muelins not getting extra steaming shit poured on him??
    Players the big turnover!!
    Gone collect your extended checks and don’t let the door kick you in the ass on the way out:
    Cain,Lopez,Casilla( Bones…My god man I’m only a Doctor Captain! Not a miracle worker!Yes I put a brain in Spock that was functional ,but it just won’t work with Casilla, Jim, you have to have a brain to start with and his is smaller then a “Tribble”)
    Oh sorry back to cuts:
    Pagan,(should be but still has photos on Bruce& Sabes)
    Blanco
    Gearrin
    Peavy
    Span but they won’t it’s the dough and they don’t want a shit pie on their face! Damm that will be the Cain scenario as well..
    Kontos
    Romo?Not down on him as much, but what really is left in that fragile body of his?
    Holy Batman!!!
    I almost forgot AgentOOO
    Talk about a guy with the “Willie Wonka Golden Ticket Every Year”
    I need more whipping boys to cut, just drawing a blank right now, “Maybe I need another “Fresh Pot”

    • snarkk said, on September 10, 2016 at 11:52 am

      I love that “fresh pot” thing from Dave Grohl. KNBR morning dudes play that a lot; it stays funny to me for some reason. Apropos for Pence — he reportedly drinks a ton of coffee…

  22. sandog said, on September 10, 2016 at 10:59 am

    Again, I don’t buy the “low energy” excuse or the “Chemistry” excuse or the “Bochy hasn’t pushed the right buttons” excuse. This team lacks talent. Other teams, namely LA, have increased their talent level and improved as the year has gone on. We’ve gone the other direction in both areas. Am I saying they should blow it all up and trade guys like Craw and Posey? Hell no. But we need to hit on some draft picks, find some foreign dudes, get luck on dumpster dives, make good trades etc to get back on track. We’ve been playing like a 100 loss team for 2 months now. We need more horses.

    • gianthead said, on September 10, 2016 at 11:38 am

      But dog..if you could get 4-5 top tier prospects for Posey, wouldn’t you think about it at least????

      • sandog said, on September 10, 2016 at 12:36 pm

        Not me. Too emotionally attached to Posey. (I’d make a lousy GM)

  23. snarkk said, on September 10, 2016 at 11:15 am

    Team needs a real makeover in the offseason. Infusion of new blood and FAs.
    Who I’d keep from the 40-man for next season:

    Belt
    Panik
    Crawford
    Nunie
    Williamson
    Parker
    Pence
    Posey
    Brown
    Specs
    Hernandez (on the fence)

    Bum
    Cueto
    Samard
    Moore

    Law
    Strick
    Smith
    Okert
    Blach
    Osich
    Suarez

  24. snarkk said, on September 10, 2016 at 11:17 am

    Giants need to get Cespedes in here. He would make a huge difference to this lineup…

    • gianthead said, on September 10, 2016 at 11:36 am

      What I said two years ago Snarkk…

    • alleykat69 said, on September 10, 2016 at 11:43 am

      Snarkk,,
      Cepedes was all of wet dreams even last year,except our org just dry humps instead of making a big OF splash..
      And yes Snarkk, it’s not a broken record with me either about the Giants lack of drafting talented Outfielders!!
      A team that still has Darren Ford playing shows how fucked up you are drafting!!!
      But out of know where could they have possibly struck gold and my newest addition to our 40 man and hopefully roster next year? is….drum roll Austin Slater LEFT FIELDER , RH, Has Power, has hit at every level, so as Tom Cruise said in Risky Business: “Sometimes you just have to say “What the Fuck”
      Get this kid up here next year before he rots away and turns 30 on us…

      • snarkk said, on September 10, 2016 at 11:55 am

        Yeah, I’ve heard Marty Lurie go off about this Slater kid as a comer. Well, get his ass up here in the Spring. Giants need to break out of this mindset of playing these older vets, and that if they have contracts, they have to play them until it’s absurd and a fan revolt is about to start. Doghairs bring guys up and down like it’s a friggin elevator to the minors. Let’s see if these minors guys can friggin play, instead of letting guys like Blanco drag their ass around the diamond for half a season, then claim they’ve been hurt all along…

      • alleykat69 said, on September 10, 2016 at 12:21 pm

        Touche Snarkk!
        Maybe Spock needs to do the Vulcan Mind Meld on all of our upper management/coaches to change their overall thinking..
        Hey the Mind Meld worked perfectly in the Wyatt Earp/Doc Holliday episode, when the Clantons,Kirk,Bones,Spock&Ceckov were forced to shoot it out at the OK corral, but after the mind meld, the bullets 🔫went right threw them with no after effect ( ok they didn’t fall over and die) and the boys then kicked their asses just fighting it out…

  25. gianthead said, on September 10, 2016 at 11:35 am

    I know I’m tired. Don’t know about Pawlie…Loo I think stays awake only at dark anyway…

    I drifted off somewhere around the top of the 10th and woke up to see the Casilla Fest and then drifted back off till that bottom 12 when they stuck Gearrin in left…

    • alleykat69 said, on September 10, 2016 at 12:04 pm

      GH… Great line on Loo:”I think he stays awake only at dark anyway”
      I Can see Loo hanging upside down in the Batcave just waiting for the “Flap Signal lighting up the sky”

      • gianthead said, on September 10, 2016 at 7:43 pm

        Merci…what says Loo????

  26. dirtnrocksnomo said, on September 10, 2016 at 11:57 am

    sandawg, I hear you regarding Panik. He sure seems to fly above criticism for some reason. K&K and Flemming are always giving him a pass that’s for sure.

    • Flavor said, on September 10, 2016 at 12:04 pm

      They gave Duffy a free pass all season long (2016). He was awful all year b4 he hit the shelf and all anyone kept talking about was his fat ass cat and what a great Willie Mac winner he is

    • snarkk said, on September 10, 2016 at 12:13 pm

      K&K have their favorites.
      Belt must have banged both their daughters or something; they rip him if he looks crossways at a ham sandwich. Posey could expose himself to the crowd and they’d give him Hero of the Game…

      • sandog said, on September 10, 2016 at 12:40 pm

        LULZ, but Posey WAS the Hero of the Game last night. That one hand scoop, snag, and tag with a catcher’s mitt was an incredible play!

      • snarkk said, on September 10, 2016 at 12:51 pm

        Posey was OH for 6, with 2 Ks. He did play the whole game.
        Belt had 2 hits, one RBI, scored 2.
        I know, Belt should have hit a home run…

  27. dirtnrocksnomo said, on September 10, 2016 at 12:03 pm

    Baggs posting Star Trek picks on The Twitter. Dude must be trolling the Flap for ideas.

    • Flavor said, on September 10, 2016 at 12:07 pm

      i saw that. That was a great pic. That bottle was old school. NOBODY, not even AlleyKat, could get his skink on like Scotty

      • alleykat69 said, on September 10, 2016 at 1:46 pm

        Hey now…
        I’m Irish and Scotch and I drink them both as well.. But man I would of loved to “Party with Scotty” into the wee hours both of us getting our skink on and seeing who can still keep planted on that bar stool the longest…🍻🍹🍸🍷🍾🍺

  28. Lurker John said, on September 10, 2016 at 12:27 pm

    I’m going to say this even though the horse has long since left the barn, but dealing Duffy was a huge mistake by the Giants and one they could suffer from for years to come.

    The more I watch Nunez the less I like him and it has nothing to do with him being a bad guy or anything like that. I’m sure he’s an ace but I don’t like his game. He’s a dicey, streaky hitter and a middling third baseman and he brings none of the chemistry to the team that Duffy did. He’s also done very little to contribute to the offense, which is what he was brought in for in the first place. Whereas Duffy had a steadying influence on the team, Nunez has anything but.

    Maybe Moore ends up being great, but I don’t care. Outside of the Pierzynski deal, the Duffy trade is the worst of the Sabean era. But he’s gone and that’s that.

    • Flavor said, on September 10, 2016 at 12:30 pm

      well, I disagree with pretty much every word you wrote here (most vehemently with “whereas Duffy had a steadying influence….Nunez has anything but”— you have absolutely zero evidence of this, this is nothing but an opinion.
      But The Flap is all about differing opinions so have at it, Lurk!

      • Lurker John said, on September 10, 2016 at 12:39 pm

        You don’t have to soft-shoe it, Flav, I have more opinions than I know what to do with. Just don’t tell me to go fuck myself. ;). I only go by what I see, so yes, just my opinion. A solid defender by nature is a steadying influence. The pitching staff can be more relaxed, the coaching staff and the rest of the team.

        Last night Nunez fumbled another one and cost them a DP in a tight game. And my evidence is Duffy’s Willie Mac Award. A rabble rouser doesn’t get that award, but a rock-solid guy like Duffy does. His teammates said so. A guy who meshes with the clubhouse. It’s not so much that Nunez is not a good influence, just that you lost more by taking Duffy out of the mix. This is not a case of addition by subtraction.

      • Lurker John said, on September 10, 2016 at 12:41 pm

        LOL. I just read your comment above about Duffy’s Willie Mac Award. And cats rock!

      • Flavor said, on September 10, 2016 at 12:52 pm

        I’m sure Duffy was a hell of a guy, that’s one reason he won the award. I happen to think the award is over valued as we have had several guys win who you would be like “huh?” if you heard their name. Mark Carreon for instance. Now, I also get that the award has been given to guys who also contributed mightily on the field.
        It is not even arguable that Nunie had a better year offensively than Duffy did. And his defense has been much better than advertised minus a few hiccups. He had a bobble last night but it wasn’t nearly as damaging as Span’s error and Nunie also had 2 important RBI’s last night (while Span, Buster and Craw went 0 for fucking 17).
        And finally, for all we know Nunie has fit in masterfully in the clubhouse. Or maybe he hasn’t. But we don’t know. We do know that there have been no signs of any strife caused by him. And every interview I’ve seen with the guy is very flattering of him. I bet he fits in great with the Latin guys at the very least and that is extremely important.
        I also don’t think you’re giving enough value to Matt Moore. Or would you have liked to have seen Cain AND Peavy pitching together all Summer? Plus, Moore will be filling a critical role in the rotation going forward.
        Nunie seems to be tied to Duffy unfairly. They were 2 separate trades. I know I like him and it’s possible that’s coloring my judgement of him, and I wasn’t at all a DuffHead so…..
        Anyway, I refuse to believe that everyone in the clubhouse starting weeping and gave up on the season when Duffy left. That doesn’t make sense on ANY level.The Dodgers lost Ellis and Kershaw WAS weeping and that didn’t seem to bury them, did it? Guys move on, it happens. This is their job, they get over it.
        I like cats, too.

      • Lurker John said, on September 10, 2016 at 5:40 pm

        Just to be clear, I was not in any way claiming to know how Nunez’s fits in the locker room. Like you say, he’s probably just fine in that regard, it was more about what losing Duffy did to the team. And it’s perfectly reasonable to compare the 2, they play the same position, even if they weren’t traded for each other. And yes, in my opinion. If I had a nickel for every opinion posted here , I could retire.

  29. Lurker John said, on September 10, 2016 at 12:45 pm

    Hey GH, responding to your 11:28, when you talk about dealing Posey for prospects then you’re really talking about starting over, building from the ground up. Maybe it works out, but it’s going to take time and it’s not going to be a popular decision. I’m not sure you could get 4-5 viable prospects for him right now. Outside of Bum, Posey is the heart and soul of the team.

    • Flavor said, on September 10, 2016 at 12:54 pm

      GH wakes up from his naps dreaming of trading Posey. It’s actually quite hilarious. And it will never happen. But if you like talking about hypotheticals get after it. I have enough shit to worry about without worrying about something that will never happen.

      • gianthead said, on September 10, 2016 at 7:50 pm

        My trade Posey thinking out loud is if they fail to make the playoffs this year and my thought is more of dangling him and see what people put on the table…

  30. Flavor said, on September 10, 2016 at 12:57 pm

    Hey WIlco! You got any entries in Draftkings $3 tourney that currently has 916,000 entries? lol. I told myself I would just put in 3 or 4 and I just counted and I have 30 in there. Most you can put in is 150. I’m gonna stop at 30 and start entering other contests now (my fav is the $9 Slant). Anyway, I bet they end up with 1.5 mil entries in that bad boy by kickoff tomorrow. CRAZY!!!!!! Who said daily fantasy is dead?

  31. pawliekokonuts said, on September 10, 2016 at 1:30 pm

    Fuckn Giants. Stayin up past 4 am threw this whole day off. Hey, did White Shark not play at all? A lot of benchers for an extras. Fuckin Giants.

    • snarkk said, on September 10, 2016 at 1:38 pm

      Blanco is hitting off a batting tee somewhere in Phoenix…

  32. pawliekokonuts said, on September 10, 2016 at 1:34 pm

    Hey Magnus, thanks for saving 14 lives last night. Can you imagine all the ledge jumping without venting here?

    • Flavor said, on September 10, 2016 at 1:42 pm

      “Flavor’s List” doesn’t have the same ring to it but i appreciate the sentiment. PK, what are those emails you are sending me about trailers and publishers and such?

  33. Macdog said, on September 10, 2016 at 2:16 pm

    Andres Torres won the Willie Mac in 2010, Giants traded him after 2011 and then won the World Series.

    I see next Friday is Star Trek night at AT&T. Maybe Capt. Kirk throws out the first pitch?

  34. unca_chuck said, on September 10, 2016 at 3:34 pm

    Is the game on? I’m lost in Longmont . . .

  35. sandog said, on September 10, 2016 at 3:35 pm

    I’m gonna miss tonight’s game as I’m heading into town to watch my SDSU Aztecs kick ass on Snarkk’s Golden Bears. Have a good one fellas, and I hope tonight’s game is a little less taxing than last night’s affair!
    Do we know yet if Loo is alive and free to walk the streets of his own volition?

    • djloo27 said, on September 10, 2016 at 4:03 pm

      Good job on Szott, San Dawg.

      I would describe last night’s game as 2 bad teams trying their best to lose…

  36. willedav said, on September 10, 2016 at 4:09 pm

    Last night was like a Kurosawa samurai flick, where even after the battle is over and your side has come out victorious, you look out (at the dead and buried) and say, “Once again we have lost.”

    2014 Bochy’s line and Pence’s was “Champion blood”, and there were also references from Hudson and others that Giants had more cojones than Nats and other opponents. so imo that’s why Bochy rolls with who he does, esp Posey Belt Panik Craw Pence…right or wrong.

    That was also the year of extreme underdogs coming through in clutch, guys like Vogs Ishi Juan Perez, to compensate for injuries to Pagan Morse and Belt, among others.

  37. djloo27 said, on September 10, 2016 at 4:17 pm

    Looks familiar:

    Denard Span (L)
    Angel Pagan (S)
    Buster Posey (R)
    Brandon Crawford (L)
    Hunter Pence (R)
    Brandon Belt (L)
    Joe Panik (L)
    Eduardo Nunez (R)
    Johnny Cueto (R)

    • djloo27 said, on September 10, 2016 at 4:23 pm

      Tomorrow they’ll rest 5 guys…

      • blade3colorado said, on September 10, 2016 at 5:01 pm

        No worries. We have great reserves . . .

  38. Flavor said, on September 10, 2016 at 5:11 pm

    3 pitch see-ya later from our fucking shit leadoff hitter. Great way to start….

  39. Flavor said, on September 10, 2016 at 5:37 pm

    another strike out from Span

  40. djloo27 said, on September 10, 2016 at 5:38 pm

    This is so fuckin’ tiring…

  41. Lurker John said, on September 10, 2016 at 5:41 pm

    What’s that for Span now, oh fer 28? Yikes.

  42. zumiee said, on September 10, 2016 at 5:47 pm

    I was thinking today about the end of the game last night, and how the Giants looked in their post-game handshake line. No bounce in their step, no smiles, tired from the extra-inning game; and also a kind of grim acceptance, I think, that this is how hard it’s going to be to win games the rest of the way.

  43. zumiee said, on September 10, 2016 at 5:50 pm

    Hill, in his third game for the Dodgers, has yet to give up a run while pitching for the Dodgers, and tonight has a perfect game after 5 innings.

  44. zumiee said, on September 10, 2016 at 5:50 pm

    Some pinball action in the rightfield corner.

    • zumiee said, on September 10, 2016 at 5:52 pm

      Got one past Goldy, finally.

  45. zumiee said, on September 10, 2016 at 6:03 pm

    A rally!

    • Lurker John said, on September 10, 2016 at 6:07 pm

      Michelle Pfeiffer has never looked hotter than she did in that movie.

      • snarkk said, on September 10, 2016 at 7:21 pm

        The Fabulous Baker Boys, she was Hawwwwt in that one. That scene in the red dress on the piano? Holy smokes….

  46. James said, on September 10, 2016 at 6:03 pm

    That shot of Cueto coaching Kelly was awesome.

  47. zumiee said, on September 10, 2016 at 6:34 pm

    Frenchy breaks up the perfect game.

  48. Flavor said, on September 10, 2016 at 6:37 pm

    2 more hits and a walk for Nunie in the fucking 8 hole. Fuck this.

  49. unca_chuck said, on September 10, 2016 at 7:08 pm

    Bingo. Been saying it since they got him that he should be 1.

    A laugher is nice tho. At DIA waiting to fly home.

    • snarkk said, on September 10, 2016 at 7:16 pm

      Span as leadoff is friggin ridiculous.
      A week into the offseason we’ll probably hear from Baggarly that Span is having some surgery on something.
      Put Nunie in there to leadoff. Put Hernandez in for Span now for defense…

  50. pawliekokonuts said, on September 10, 2016 at 7:10 pm

    I miss me my Gregor.

  51. Flavor said, on September 10, 2016 at 7:11 pm

    3 hits now for our number 8 hitter and then he just stole 2nd. Meanwhile, I think Span got a walk today.

  52. pawliekokonuts said, on September 10, 2016 at 7:11 pm

    I do agree the chemistry seems flat, a tad sour; restrained. A Mets fan pointed that out to me.

    • Flavor said, on September 10, 2016 at 7:15 pm

      wtf would a mets fan know about our chemistry?

    • snarkk said, on September 10, 2016 at 7:18 pm

      My lady contact that saw the Monday game at Coors said they were lifeless, and paid no attention to Giants fans urging them on. Guess they are pining for Skeeter… 😉

  53. Flavor said, on September 10, 2016 at 7:16 pm

    Span is flirting with the worst offensive showing on a road trip in the history of road trips. He got a hit to start the trip and hasn’t had one since. How many at bats is that? 35?

  54. snarkk said, on September 10, 2016 at 7:20 pm

    If I managed this team the players would probably hate me. And, I’d have constant arguments with Sabes until he fired my ass…

  55. snarkk said, on September 10, 2016 at 7:22 pm

    Take Cueto out to save his arm. Put Casilla in to mop this puppy up…

  56. Flavor said, on September 10, 2016 at 7:32 pm

    If Bochy hates Casilla, and I think a part of him does, he should make him finish this game. Obviously take him out if he gives up 3 or 4 runs.

  57. Flavor said, on September 10, 2016 at 7:32 pm

    ah I see Snarkk and I had the same idea.

  58. gianthead said, on September 10, 2016 at 7:37 pm

    Mets lose Mets lose

  59. Lurker John said, on September 10, 2016 at 7:47 pm

    Span, the only guy in tonight’s lineup *without* a hit, and I believe his streak is now at a nice round 0-30. Yowsa.

  60. gianthead said, on September 10, 2016 at 7:54 pm

    I missed how the HELL Arkansas tied that game…

    • gianthead said, on September 10, 2016 at 7:56 pm

      And Flav will love this…after being up till 3 am last night, my wife woke me up at 7 am:(

      I made it till about 9 am and went back for a quickie 2 hour nap. Post lunch I took an epic 3 hour…life is good…

      • Flavor said, on September 10, 2016 at 7:57 pm

        nap king.

      • Lurker John said, on September 10, 2016 at 8:08 pm

        Fucking naps rule.

      • Flavor said, on September 10, 2016 at 8:11 pm

        i can’t nap for shit. Wish I could. Trying to nap just pisses me off.

      • gianthead said, on September 10, 2016 at 8:17 pm

        Well to be fair. My parents are out for a visit so I am drinking heavily and kids passing around slight case of the flu…so triple threat leads to luxurious naps. Docs all say how good naps are for your health so I am just listening to my doc…and this is the best part Flav. 11 pm…and all 5 kids and parents and wife all dead asleep. Add in the two dogs…including the 176 lb Mastiff who wants to eat my parents…House all to myself…

  61. Flavor said, on September 10, 2016 at 7:58 pm

    Kruk saying that joining the bullpen can be “exhilarating”. I’m guessing Peavy didn’t feel too exhilarated to come in for mop up duty in an 11-2 game. His command has been pretty bad, too

  62. Flavor said, on September 10, 2016 at 8:00 pm

    this HAS been a good night!
    David O’BrienVerified account
    ‏@DOBrienAJC
    #Braves Pierzynski hugging all teammates, passed out cigars. He’s retiring, apparently right now.

  63. Flavor said, on September 10, 2016 at 8:08 pm

    SPan gets a single in garbage time off a no name pitcher from triple A with an 8 ERA and Kruk declares Span to be coming out of his slump. First hit in over a week. That was solid gold Kruk cluelessness.

  64. Macdog said, on September 10, 2016 at 8:18 pm

    I still wouldn’t put Casilla in.

  65. Irish Kevin said, on September 10, 2016 at 8:22 pm

    Damn, for a minute there I thought the BP was going to give it up. Whew, a win!!

  66. gianthead said, on September 10, 2016 at 8:22 pm

    As I said last night…RALLY FUCKING RALLY…I’m going with it for the rest of the season as my war cry…

  67. Irish Kevin said, on September 10, 2016 at 8:24 pm

    So GH, you have a small bear for a pet? Ha ha

    • gianthead said, on September 10, 2016 at 8:48 pm

      I call him a lion because of his coat..but he actually looks like a little bear. Big big baby but just unsure of strangers. Leo is a year and half old and may still grow a little.

  68. PaulinAsia Banh Bao said, on September 10, 2016 at 8:28 pm

    Naps… over here in Asia, it’s a part of just about everyone’s day. A dozen years ago when I was first living in Huizhou, China, I’d go into town from uni campus to do some shopping at lunchtime. The streets were empty, best time to go get things done in China without the masses. The banks closed from like 11:30am til 2pm. I remember thinking, damn, if the US is ever going to invade China, do it at lunchtime, they’re all flippin’ sleeping. I’d get emails from some of my graduated students who now were working in international companies. I’d ask them how’s the job? They’d say fine except they weren’t allowed to take naps, boohoohoo… Craig, you can’t “try” to take a nap. Fruitless and frustrating as you say. The nap must come to you….

    • gianthead said, on September 10, 2016 at 8:57 pm

      When I go to bed be it for the night and or nap time I always now listen to a podcast. Put on something political or something else dry and I’m usually out in less than 5 minutes..it takes your mind off everything….give it a try Flav..

      • blade3colorado said, on September 10, 2016 at 9:15 pm

        Agree with your process GH. I usually read my novel, especially before bed at night. I am good for a couple of pages and than I am zonked out. Sometimes, it only takes a few paragraphs. Works every time. Less successful on a plane, albeit, I am pretty good at sleeping on them as well.

      • Flavor said, on September 11, 2016 at 6:37 am

        it has to be completely dark with a noise cancelator on for me to sleep. I’m like a fucking 5 month old.

    • PaulinAsia Banh Bao said, on September 10, 2016 at 9:02 pm

      I have a little “sound machine” I use sometimes. Sounds include white noise, rain, flowing river, and, my favorite, the sound of ocean waves. The waves thing puts me right out….

      • gianthead said, on September 10, 2016 at 9:07 pm

        Sounds peaceful…I like the sound of voices…

  69. PaulinAsia Banh Bao said, on September 10, 2016 at 9:06 pm

    All the talk about Bochy is legitimate from a fan’s viewpoint, as it just *seems* like he hasn’t been too sharp in his strategy lately. But I agree with some here who say “he is who he is”. I recall watching when he was managing SD in the Series against the Yankees and not being overly impressed by his moves, and I also remember thinking when they hired him that I would’ve rather they hired Bud Black at the time. Those lean years before 2009 were pretty painful to watch. That’s what this wretched stretch reminds me of, those post-Bonds teams. But I still believe, just get to the post-season, and that’s where he will shine once again. Just… need… to get there….

    • gianthead said, on September 10, 2016 at 9:10 pm

      Man Paul…I had the same thoughts on Bochy and also was in the Bud Black camp. My favorite nickname for Bochy then was Blockhead…but after the first World Series I took a vow of never criticizing him (except for the occasional BUNT for Crissakes comment)…

    • Flavor said, on September 11, 2016 at 6:37 am

      I was totally down on the Bochy hiring at the time. Even wrote a complaint letter to the editor at the Chron that got published. That’s old school.

  70. snarkk said, on September 10, 2016 at 9:15 pm

    LJ, I’ll see ya’ MP in scarface, and raise ya this one:..

    • blade3colorado said, on September 10, 2016 at 9:50 pm

      Just saw Jeff Bridges in Hell Or Highwater . . . He was excellent in this movie. However, he took off his shirt and I think everyone was disgusted. LOL . . . Dude has aged quite a bit, albeit, I recently saw a movie with Nick Nolte and Robert Redford – Nolte looked like he just got out of detox. Ha.

  71. dirtnrocksnomo said, on September 10, 2016 at 9:22 pm

    Yeah, Bochy is who he is. Someone said earlier or the other day that losing Flan was a big blow. I think there is a lot of truth there. With his upbeat personality and energy he was probably the conduit to the players. Plus he and Bochy were long time buddies. From what I’ve read they spent a lot of time together after games. Flan even made a joking comment that he had to walk away to save his liver. Bochy probably feels alone on an island in a lot of ways. Who’s he going to turn to? Wotus, Hayes, Kelly and El Presidente? I’ve noticed Decker around him more in the dugout lately. Maybe he’s building a rapport there.

    • zumiee said, on September 10, 2016 at 9:31 pm

  72. snarkk said, on September 10, 2016 at 9:34 pm

    Osich gave up the 9th inning dinger, with the squad up by 9. This kid has to go back to AAA and hone his skills next season. Good stuff when it works, he just can’t keep the ball consistently outta the hitting zone…

  73. snarkk said, on September 10, 2016 at 11:00 pm

    Cal and San Diego State in defensive struggle in 4th quarter with 8 minutes left: 38 to 34, SDSU leads at the moment…

    • Macdog said, on September 10, 2016 at 11:08 pm

      Didn’t know there was game still going, I just put it on, thanks.

      • snarkk said, on September 10, 2016 at 11:19 pm

        It’s insane that a college game is playing at 11:20 pm.
        Next week Cal plays TX, a night game. That sucks…

  74. snarkk said, on September 10, 2016 at 11:27 pm

    Typical Sonny Dykes defense.
    Can’t stop anybody at crunch time.
    I mean, especially at crunch time…

    • Macdog said, on September 10, 2016 at 11:31 pm

      Cal gets the onside kick!

  75. snarkk said, on September 10, 2016 at 11:38 pm

    Typical Cal loss. Just good enough to lose…

    • Macdog said, on September 10, 2016 at 11:40 pm

      Big miss when Webb couldn’t hit the receiver deep middle on that final drive.

    • snarkk said, on September 10, 2016 at 11:45 pm

      This kind of football that Cal plays is entertaining the first few years, but after that, it’s almost exhausting. Lots of scoring, but losing. I rather have a team with defense, and win games 10-7. Always “young” guys on defense, which means young and not very good. Cal can only attract 3 star recruits at best, and it shows. Blue chippers are not going to come to Cal to play for a Sonny Dykes…

  76. alleykat69 said, on September 11, 2016 at 12:08 am

    Cal’s 3 star recruits are still 2 stars better then the Giants Outfield recruits…


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