THE San Francisco Giants Blog

I Don’t Want Bryce Harper

Posted in Uncategorized by Flavor on October 10, 2018

With no baseball and no football and no real NBA yet….I thought we could kick around Bryce Harper….

sandog said, on October 9, 2018 at 8:59 pm (Edit)

I dunno man, a lot of times these deals simply come down to who offers the most money…and I think we’re gonna offer him a boatload.
Would it be so terrible to have him in orange and black?????? We’re a horrific offensive team and we’d be adding one of the very best offensive players in the game. Of course he’s not gonna solve all of our problems, but it would be a helluva step in the right direction wouldn’t it?

“Would it be so terrible to have him in Orange and Black?”

Considering nothing else, of course it would be fine. He’s a semi-prolific power hitter. The more of those the better. But there are giant flashing warning signs. He hit .249 this year. I think that is directly related to banging the ball into the shift over and over. And the only way for a LH hitter to beat the shift is by hitting the ball over the wall. Bryce would do that at an alarmingly lower rate in our joke ballpark.

So let’s say that instead of 34 bombs (which isn’t even prolific if you look at what the other monsters are putting up) he hits south of 30. And still hits .249. Does that seem like a guy we should be giving 30 million dollars a year to?

Next problem: As our only legitimate power threat he wouldn’t ever see a strike. He led the NL in walks this year with 130. Barry Bonds thinks that’s cute. In 2004 Barry walked 232 times. He walked more than 130 in seven seasons. But Barry had the temperament to deal with that. He’d wait for the one pitch he’d see every two at bats and launch it. And I’m sorry, Bryce Harper is no Barry Bonds.

Besides being frustrated by balls constantly thrown out of the strike zone, Harps would be turned off by how hard it is to hit bombs at AT&T. I can already see him blast one, he goes into a trot, and….. the ball lands harmlessly in a glove in right center. He’d take off his helmet, toss his locks high in the air and think to himself (again): “I came here because The City is pretty? What the fuck is wrong with me?”

Finally, everything I’ve read about him is that he cares about his stats and wants to climb the HR ladder as high as he can. He’s gonna need a lot of help to make that happen. He won’t be signing for a team who might as well be playing their home games at a high school field with no fence line……

And FINALLY finally where exactly would they come up with the money for him? I’m assuming the could cobble together the dough but then say “that’s it, we’re tapped out.” And the new GM would continue to paste together a roster with as many Gorks and Blanco’s as he could find on the bottom of the scrap heap…..

It all adds up to a huge NO for me. We need so much more than one Bryce Harper to become competitive again. Hell, he was on a team THIS year that dwarfed the Giants in terms of talent. And they won 82 games. Simply put, Harper ain’t enough.

81 Responses

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  1. blade3colorado said, on October 10, 2018 at 6:56 am

    What you said . . .

    • blade3colorado said, on October 10, 2018 at 6:57 am

      Oh, and I don’t want Machado either . . . One Wrongo at 3rd base is one too many in my opinion.

      • Flavor said, on October 10, 2018 at 7:16 am

        The only superstars I want are the ones I draft. Period. End of story.

      • gianthead said, on October 10, 2018 at 9:49 am

        Plus Machado will play shortstop wherever he goes…is Donaldson a possibility if you move Longoria to a platoon with Belt at 1b or games at 2nd if you trade Panik?

  2. willedav said, on October 10, 2018 at 7:26 am

    I think SD is right. While I doubt he comes here, he’d be one piece of puzzle and a nice one to have. If you pull the ball at ATT from either side yard is not unfriendly. The Giants aren’t likely getting 2-3 middle order bats in one fell swoop of offseason so do what you can to improve what you have.

    Nothing wrong with Machado either, esp as legit RH power hitter. Anyone in his way position wise can be moved by whatev means necessary. Other than AJ Pollock and M Brantley I don’t see top level FA hitters under 30 out there. M Gonzalez definitely good guy to have but hard to believe he’d leave Stros.

    As far as money, giants have plenty to spare. Non issue—only issue there being how much they are willing to spend. Last year they folded the tent and went home with Minaj to platoon with Gorks in CF.

    Red Sox paid Hanley $22 mil to suck this year, and still owe Pablo for next year. Pedroia made shit load this year too for zilch. they paid Price $30 mil and still owe him for another few years. Kimbrel who almost blew up last night is being paid top dollar as closer. Did any of this bother them?

    • Flavor said, on October 10, 2018 at 7:39 am

      saying they have the $ is only part of the story. The Giants are focused on the massive project outside the stadium. That is where a lot of their $ is going. And they *folded the tent* because they were 5 cents off the luxury tax. I don’t know where we stand against it this coming year but it has to be close right? they aren’t going over that, they’ve made that abundantly clear.

      • Bozo said, on October 10, 2018 at 7:54 am

        By staying under the cap last year, the Giants reset their tax to zero. So they can go over the threshold without penalty this year if they want. At least that’s the way I understand it.

      • gianthead said, on October 10, 2018 at 9:53 am

        They should be easily $50-$60 million under the cap next year right??? They will likely extend Bum in my mind, but that should keep them below the cap for the next few years if they stood pat..

  3. Bozo said, on October 10, 2018 at 7:38 am

    $400 mil, or whatever contract Harper is looking for these days, is a lot of cash to lay out for someone that doesn’t fix the problem. Staying under the cap last year means the Giants could spend this year but still I’m a no on Harper.

    I wouldn’t mind going after AJ Pollock to ungork CF. I also wouldn’t mind getting McCutchen on a one year deal, maybe he’d take $8-$10 (very few FA OFers this year) but I’d play him in LF. Shaw and the Mac Attack can fight it out in ST for RF but I’d also invite Luigi Rodriguez to the big camp (you never know).

    Even with the new GM coming on board, I just don’t see the Giants doing anything huge. I figure the new GM will want to see what he has before he really gets his feet wet.

    • gianthead said, on October 10, 2018 at 9:55 am

      Sorry Bozo. I want no part of McCutchen taking up playing time from the youth…we need to see that group play for the year. Shaw and Not Big Mac have to be in left. They can’t play right. Slate in right and Duggar in center if they are all healthy.

  4. blade3colorado said, on October 10, 2018 at 8:14 am

    Going after a Harper or Machado ignores the “wilderness” reality of 7 other positions that need fixing. This “reload” BS just extends our wilderness years. There are no easy answers. Frankly, the only asset we have is pitching and that’s suspect in my opinion. If Baer is smart, he will select a “next gen” GM from outside this organization and STAY OUT OF THE WAY.

  5. unca_chuck said, on October 10, 2018 at 8:24 am

    Shit, I get pissed off at the asshat wearing his backpack on a crowded Bart train (you didn’t like my comment? boo hoo).

    Having a drink with a fucktard that threw a beer on me? Fuck no. Not in 3 lifetimes. The entire monstrosity that was Candlestick Park is spinning in its toxic grave. Buy a beer to throw in his face? Sure.

  6. unca_chuck said, on October 10, 2018 at 8:31 am

    Longo, Smargle, Melonhead, Cutch. and re-upping Bummie are all varying shades of the same idea of going after Harper. They may appease the fanbase and the season ticket holders in the offseason, but we’ll be 80-90 loss team for that much longer as we refuse to deal with the overarching problem of little talent at any level of the team.

    David Bell might be on to something, but the new regime may throw him and everyone else out. All I know for sure is the non-baseball people have WAY too much influence on what should be baseball decisions made by baseball people.

    All they have to do is look to the 49ers to see how an overbearing owner can fuck the fortunes of a team. It took Jed 7 years of flailing around before finally backing off. And they still suck. But, they have a good group of football people in the room.

  7. snarkk said, on October 10, 2018 at 8:53 am

    Going after Harper would be a PR move, that’s all. Not a baseball move, a Baer amusement park move. BF is right in all respects. This team is swiss cheese full o’ holes. One dude who gets walked all the time isn’t going to fix that. They had Bonds for all that time after the 2002 WS, and won nada because he was surrounded by a chump team. And, yes, Harper is no Bonds…

  8. gianthead said, on October 10, 2018 at 9:47 am

    No way in hell he signs here…Giants will only be used by Scott Boras to drive up his price. In fact, with Boras as his agent, do the Giants even engage????

    What I have witnessed watching Harper in the DC area since he arrived. He is more concerned with his hair than his team. He is not a clubhouse leader in any way. There has been interesting stories this year of the meltdown in the Nats clubhouse and he had made no attempt to rally his team. I am not spending $300 million on someone that sits alone in the clubhouse. And he is certainly not a San Francisco guy…he is a Vegas guy. Those two things just don’t blend.

    He had a buddy in Kris Bryant and as long as they are willing to go 10 years…no doubt in my mind he is a Cub…plus how many games would it take for either Posey or Smardaramjam to try and strangle him??? 12?

    • Flavor said, on October 10, 2018 at 9:58 am

      great post

      • gianthead said, on October 10, 2018 at 12:33 pm

        Danke… I may strangle him if he is or is not a Giant…go brew crew. I feel the spanking of the Red Sox is coming….just need to get the Brew Crew in there…

  9. blade3colorado said, on October 10, 2018 at 10:03 am

    GH, regarding Josh Donaldson . . . He’s 32 years old. The injury he incurred, coupled with his mediocre showing against Cleveland blew up any thoughts of free agency riches. In fact, many articles surmised that he could still accrue upwards of $100 million if he performed decently in the playoffs. Forget that scenario, as he had one hit in the 3 games against the Astros.

    So, my question to you – how much would you offer him? Contract length? Me? We need to get younger and the only way we do that is by parlaying whatever bullpen and pitching assets we have for prospects. Regarding position players we have, BF said it best – we need to “hoodwink” the Pirates and Rockies of the world a la Sanchez and Scutaro. However, I think the league is onto us (Sabean). The last thing we want to do is add old farts like Donaldson IMO.

    • gianthead said, on October 10, 2018 at 10:14 am

      That is all correct Blade…why I could see us getting him on a low-ball 2 year deal. Give him $12.5 mill a year for 2 is more than he will get elsewhere and with us way under a cap, $12.5 mill a year ain’t much. He probably has the most potential righ-handed pop among the free-agents. Panda could get some starts as well. If he is a bust, no biggie because they have the money to spend and does not harm playing the younger OFers. I don’t see Ryder Jones becoming our 3b of the future…

      • blade3colorado said, on October 10, 2018 at 10:18 am

        At $12.5 a year for 2 seasons – Yeah, I would be down with that. Satisfies the season ticket holders who want a “name” player and doesn’t prevent us from rebuilding.

      • gianthead said, on October 10, 2018 at 10:18 am

        There really is no other legit free-agents of note that would be game-changers for us. They need a year to play all the young players in the OF (maybe Shaw even getting some 1b starts) and see if the three young arms in Rodriguez, Suarez and Stratton are long-termers.

      • gianthead said, on October 10, 2018 at 12:35 pm

        I think you are right there again Blade about the fan base. Makes them think they are doing something about the post poor two years…

  10. gianthead said, on October 10, 2018 at 10:09 am

    With the Giants picking up Bum’s $12 mill option, Giants are just roughly at $140 mill in committed contracts. So at least $40-$50 mill below the cap…in 2 more years for the 2021 season, they could be as much as $100 million below a potential cap.

    • gianthead said, on October 10, 2018 at 10:21 am

      I just double checked…after 2019 we still have Cueto for 2 more years and Smardaramjam for one more…makes me a little sick…

    • Bozo said, on October 10, 2018 at 11:11 am

      Not sure about that, GH. My understanding is you can’t just look at Cot’s for the salary calc that MLB uses. I’m pretty sure it is calculated using the 40 man roster average annual value of the contract, so Melancon, as an example, wouldn’t be $14 mil for next year but he would cost the cap $15.5. Also I think all bonuses, medical expenses and I think they also throw in estimated Arb #s and probably some other shit included for their calculated “salary” numbers.

      Starting in 2018, I think MLB is also going to penalizes the top tier teams by moving their draft pick back 10 spots.

      Again, because the Giants stayed under the cap last year, the Giants penalty is reset to zero. So they could go over this year and only pay the smaller percent in 2020, not the 50% they were at last year.

      • gianthead said, on October 10, 2018 at 12:37 pm

        I was trying to factor worse case scenario and still can’t see payroll being over $160 mill next year with the team as is…so that is roughly $40 mill before hitting the cap…O could see a low-ball on Donaldson and maybe add a mid-range arm as a starter. Bullpen is set, especially is Smardj is there and they have spent plenty of dough as is..

  11. unca_chuck said, on October 10, 2018 at 10:18 am

    You don’t offer Donaldson anything. He’s more of the same problem. Plus we already have an overpriced 3-bagger in Longo. Unless we trade Belt and put Donaldson at 1st for 1-2 yr @ $8 mill per. If someone wants to sign him to a big deal, let them.

    • gianthead said, on October 10, 2018 at 10:23 am

      If we can get him for $8 mill even better…signing him would certainly be the Giants way…again, signing him for 2 years really does not harm our payroll or young players in the pipeline because we have none for the infield.

    • blade3colorado said, on October 10, 2018 at 10:40 am

      Chuck, I see your point, but $12.5 million is chicken feed in MLB. However, you’re right about Longo and Belt, plus how about the invalid, Posey??? Just my take, but I believe he’s done as a full time catcher. Back to the drawing board . . . lulz

      • Bozo said, on October 10, 2018 at 11:16 am

        I was just thinking, if Posey passes a physical, Atlanta might see him as their missing piece. They have the money, they have young talent and Buster might even waive his No Trade clause for some home cooking.

        I gotta stop thinking.

      • alleykat69 said, on October 10, 2018 at 11:33 am

        Until Bart is ready their not gonna hand the reins to Garcia everyday.Posey is still going to catch..

      • snarkk said, on October 10, 2018 at 11:48 am

        Posey may not be able to catch, regularly, or maybe not at all. This hip repair has no guarantee. They drafted BART obviously knowing that this hip problem is serious business. I can see Busters contract turning into another albatross if the rehab doesn’t turn out well…

      • xoot said, on October 10, 2018 at 12:09 pm

        Bozo, that’s a good idea. Atlanta’s a good target for Buster, if he shows he’s still healthy. He probably would accept that trade (imo). Now where could they jettison Smarge? MadBum should be easy to deal; the challenge will be getting a good return.

      • gianthead said, on October 10, 2018 at 12:52 pm

        And if Posey is back at the start of the season..

      • gianthead said, on October 10, 2018 at 12:57 pm

        Bozo, I have had the same thought about Atlanta for a couple of years now and it has yet to happen. My guess is that now that he is hurt, Atlanta will be very tepid…

  12. zumiee said, on October 10, 2018 at 11:54 am

    I have a lot of respect for transsexual people. They have a lot of courage to be who they really are, knowing they will get some verbal abuse for it, and are taking the risk of physical abuse, also.

    • xoot said, on October 10, 2018 at 12:17 pm

      Every transsexual I’ve gotten to know has been very different from every other. E.g., one’s a judge in Oakland; another is a guy who castrated himself in California prison and then demanded a transfer to a women’s facility. (We represented the city where the women’s prison is located. They did not want the trouble.)

      As to the kind and forgiving person who got assaulted with beer and a cup at the yankees game, if that happened to me I’d kick the other guy’s ass and then sue him for elder abuse.

      My karma would take yet one more big hit, but . . . .

    • gianthead said, on October 10, 2018 at 1:01 pm

      Did I miss something about Clayton Kershaw??? And there is your post of the day.

  13. zumiee said, on October 10, 2018 at 12:02 pm

    There isn’t time for the Wild Card to be a 2 out of 3, but there’s time to wait 4 days for the league championship series to start? Hmmm……

  14. blade3colorado said, on October 10, 2018 at 12:08 pm

    John, unless he is going to catch – doubtful in my opinion – where would Posey play? First base is taken with All Star Freeman firmly entrenched. I actually think Belt is gone in the off season, so he can play at 1st full time, albeit, there’s no guarantees he’ll be able to physically handle that.

    • alleykat69 said, on October 10, 2018 at 1:01 pm

      Can anyone on the Giants physically able to play anymore anyway?

    • Bozo said, on October 10, 2018 at 1:29 pm

      Maybe so, but if he passes a physical I think he is going to catch, I don’t know for how long but he may fit Atlanta’s dream as the final piece and they have the cap room and players to make a deal work. But yeah, big maybes here. Besides being healthy enough to strap on the gear, Posey would also have to waive his No-Trade status and I don’t have a clue if he’d be willing to do that.
      And, I’m pretty sure all three Catchers on the Braves are FAs?

      • unca_chuck said, on October 10, 2018 at 1:36 pm

        Buster’s still owed $64.2 mill. That’s gonna be some big eating on our part. They need to jettison Smargle as well but that’s another $36 million. Longo? $67 mill. Cueto is $63 mill. Melonhead? A paltry $28 mill. Fuck me sideways.

        Welcome to the hurt locker room.

      • unca_chuck said, on October 10, 2018 at 1:38 pm

        And Buster’s path to the Hall of Fame is an a catcher. As a 1st baseman, his numbers suck and he’s a middle-of-the-road guy.

      • djloo27 said, on October 10, 2018 at 3:09 pm

        At this point, the only way Posey sees the HOF is if he attends Bochy’s induction…

  15. unca_chuck said, on October 10, 2018 at 2:01 pm

    I think Buster catches at least 2 more years

  16. Flavor said, on October 10, 2018 at 3:06 pm

    I’m with Xoot, my experience with transsexual people has run the gamut. And I do respect those who are trying to live life honestly with themselves. I still think Loo’s POTD is funny as shit.

  17. Flavor said, on October 10, 2018 at 3:08 pm

    I personally like how so many bathrooms have changed to non gender specific. Nearly never have to wait anymore. 🙂 I was at a Pizza my Heart today for lunch, one bathroom was occupied, the other one wasn’t, both gender not specified, boom I was good to go.

    • djloo27 said, on October 10, 2018 at 3:12 pm

      Do these bathrooms accommodate more than one person at a time?

      • Flavor said, on October 10, 2018 at 3:13 pm

        the ones I’ve seen are all single use.

  18. Flavor said, on October 10, 2018 at 3:16 pm

    transsexuals don’t even go by that name anymore. It’s crazy, I can’t keep up. There are like 30 different descriptions including referring to themselves as “they” or “them”. Seriously. I don’t get it but I do respect the way they choose to live even if I don’t get it or understand it

    • unca_chuck said, on October 10, 2018 at 3:26 pm

      • unca_chuck said, on October 10, 2018 at 3:26 pm

        Hugely underrated album. The deal behind this album, beyond the fact that Peter Geffen (CEO of Geffen Records) sued Neil for producing something so off the wall that didn’t ‘represent Neil Young’, was the fact his sons both have cerebral palsy and couldn’t communicate until the computer age.

        Which begat this album and the Bridge School benefit concerts.

      • unca_chuck said, on October 10, 2018 at 3:49 pm

  19. unca_chuck said, on October 10, 2018 at 3:22 pm

    DJ, if Buster keeps his average over .300 and does say 4-5 more years of duty at around 60-65 RBIs, he’ll get in.

    Sure, it ‘s a big if that is predicated on him getting healthy, but it’s doable for him to reach 1,000 RBIs. Which I think guarantees him in.

    Then again, he may never come fully back from this injury. Even then, there’d be a big push to get him in.

  20. unca_chuck said, on October 10, 2018 at 3:57 pm

    And if you haven’t seen this, it is awesome.

    • Bozo said, on October 10, 2018 at 4:15 pm

      That guy on the left I like a lot, the other guy, not so much.

  21. zumiee said, on October 10, 2018 at 4:07 pm

    “I don’t get it but I do respect the way they choose to live even if I don’t get it or understand it”

    There are a certain amount of people that are born with the certainty that they are in the wrong-gendered body. An absolute certainty. Why this happens, who knows, but it’s their plight. And they know they will not be fully themselves until they’ve converted to the other gender. Some choose to live as transgender, and others get medical procedures and are transsexual.
    The Declaration of Independence says we all have the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. It’s a core principle of our nation.

    • blade3colorado said, on October 10, 2018 at 4:15 pm

      Excellent post . . . and quite true on all counts.

    • xoot said, on October 10, 2018 at 4:31 pm

      white man slave-master Jefferson probably meant “happiness” in the Lockean sense — i.e., the right to own and enjoy (and to profit from) property, etc. — although there’s some dispute about whether he intended to broaden the meaning. The other drafters of the non-binding Declaration almost certainly had Locke in mind when they agreed to use the term Jefferson included in the first draft.

      Recent federal court rulings that protect gay and lesbian rights (to marry, for example) may extend to protect the rights of transgender people. Such decisions are based on the 14th Amendment, which wasn’t added to the Constitution until after the Civil War.

      • zumiee said, on October 10, 2018 at 5:19 pm

        I think some First Amendment rights have come into play on this also. Some people object to gay rights based on their own religious reasons, and the First Amendment says that basically the government can’t give preference to any particular religion. This will come into play on future attempts to overturn Rowe vs. Wade, also. When is a person a person? Is the belief we are a person at conception a religious belief only? Stay tuned for future debate, given that the Supreme Court leans Conservative these days.

      • xoot said, on October 10, 2018 at 5:38 pm

        after Roe there was Casey (the big abortion compromise involving newly appointed Justice Kennedy). I think Casey held that the government’s interest in the fetus — i.e., in the potential life — took over around the 22nd or 23rd week of pregnancy. At that point, the woman’s Roe v. Wade right to privacy gets, as you might say, trumped. At least I think that’s how it goes. Personally, I sort of like the legal commentators who argue that banning abortion violates the 13th amendment. Never get anywhere, however.

      • djloo27 said, on October 10, 2018 at 6:00 pm

        In fairness, the Declaration of Independence should have also been signed by John Hancunt…

      • xoot said, on October 10, 2018 at 6:27 pm

        Yeah, women had no say. You know that scene in The Gambler, when the James Caan “professor” character lectures his skeptical students about a William Carlos Williams essay on George Washington? (To get their attention, Prof. whatshisname pulls an alleged line from D.H. Lawrence out of his ass (the line was off point and inaccurate, among other things, but sort of flashy).) Well, in that same great book of essays Williams discusses early american population records and concludes that most women back then died fairly young after “shooting children against the wilderness like cannon balls.”

      • snarkk said, on October 10, 2018 at 7:47 pm

        Griswold was a key SCOTUS case before Roe that found a right to privacy in the Bill of Rights, though not directly stated, which was foundational for Roe. I think all would agree that individuals have a right to privacy, and many are surprised such is not stated in the Bill of Rights. Good ol’ Bill Douglas came up with that opinion…

      • xoot said, on October 10, 2018 at 8:20 pm

        Douglas loved the wilderness, too

      • djloo27 said, on October 10, 2018 at 8:46 pm

        I loved the classroom scenes in The Gambler, but I agree the alleged D.H. Lawrence line seemed to come from nowhere…

  22. Irish Kevin said, on October 10, 2018 at 7:24 pm

    IMO, this team needs hitters, power hitters just don’t happen consistently in this park, and when I say hitters I mean guys like Tony Gwynn, he would have beat the Belt shift after like 2 at bats with his eyes closed. Why are players today so stubborn, ego gets in the way and they want to beat the shift by pounding into the defense? Stupid!

  23. Irish Kevin said, on October 10, 2018 at 7:26 pm

    What ball player has hitt the most HR at ATT since Bonds left? I am sure it is not a Giant.

    • djloo27 said, on October 10, 2018 at 8:48 pm

      Great trivia question.
      Gotta be Posey, I guess…

      • djloo27 said, on October 10, 2018 at 8:55 pm

        Goldshit’s probably second…..

      • alleykat69 said, on October 10, 2018 at 9:27 pm

        Goldshit supposedly being shopped around for the right deal.Of course the Giants cubbard is bare to get this stud.

    • Bozo said, on October 11, 2018 at 6:51 am

      I’m going with Panda.

  24. djloo27 said, on October 10, 2018 at 10:15 pm

    There is a mind-boggling statistical nugget buried in Buster Posey’s career numbers. A man who has (or had) good opposite field power and has played his entire home career in a park famous for “triples alley” has a grand total of 9 three baggers in 4,708 PA. I challenge anyone to find a player in history who can match that aversion to the 3 base hit.

    • djloo27 said, on October 10, 2018 at 10:17 pm

      Well, Boog Powell had 11 in 7,809 PA, but he was a fatso in a normal size park…

      • djloo27 said, on October 10, 2018 at 10:22 pm

        Adam Dunn had 10 in 8,328 PA, but he was a 290 pound cow.
        Baseball Reference tortures me.
        Goodnight with this shit…

    • PaulinAsia Banh Bao said, on October 10, 2018 at 10:22 pm

      Buster is no fatso, but he is somewhat…. what was the term used sometimes on the Flap? Pear-shaped? Maybe not conducive to motoring around the bases….

      • djloo27 said, on October 10, 2018 at 10:30 pm

        Even Panda’s got 21 in 4,576 PA…

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