A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball

The Summer of Big Flavor

Posted in Uncategorized by Flavor on July 6, 2021

Sorry for the late thread, trying to get out of town tomorrow. Portland, then Black Butte, Sun River, back to Ca then to Reno. Four weeks of golf, beers, poker, family, friends and whatever else I can fit in.

I’ll keep the threads humming as usual they just might be coming in later than the normal 5am post.

Worried about the game today. Soft tossing Waino is just the type of guy to keep us off balance (see: the dude from yesterday).

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  1. snarkk's avatar snarkk said, on July 6, 2021 at 12:23 pm

    Giants bats, even with this new crew of hitting coaches, seem to go quiet when “they’ve never seen this guy before”, as the broadcast crew says. Do other teams suffer the same fate? There is always a “new guy” coming up somewhere in the league, maybe every day, so chances are during the season every team faces a “new guy”, to them, fairly often. Isn’t video supposed to help on this? If a “new guy” has been in the league for a week or two, there has to be video and a “book” on him already…

    • Cardinal70's avatar Cardinal70 said, on July 7, 2021 at 4:18 am

      It’s a accepted fact that some guy the Cardinals have never seen before will shut them down, even if he’s got a 6.00 ERA.

  2. xoot's avatar xoot said, on July 6, 2021 at 12:36 pm

    Sideshows have been normal in Oakland for a long time. They leave impressive layers of rubber on the pavement, in nearly perfect circles. Way back when Jerry brown was mayor some wise asses held a show one midnight at the intersection of telegraph and 27th, right below his condo.

    • zumiee's avatar zumiee said, on July 6, 2021 at 12:41 pm

      Wow- I have only a vague memory of Brown being mayor. I’m pretty terrible about being able to name mayors of cities.

    • unca_chuck's avatar unca_chuck said, on July 6, 2021 at 12:57 pm

      Governor Moonbeam became the Mayor of the Madhouse. He did fix up Jack London Square and surrounding areas though.

      • zumiee's avatar zumiee said, on July 6, 2021 at 1:34 pm

        Going back much further, oh the 1970s in California….

      • xoot's avatar xoot said, on July 6, 2021 at 1:35 pm

        Actually what he did in Uptown was more significant. Mayor was a step up toward AG (as everyone knows, that means “aspiring governor)”. Brown’s experience with the redevelopment department in Oakland, which he rode hard with his pet projects, led him to scrap the entire Calif. redevelopment scheme when he made it back to Gov. Some smaller cities used redev well; some larger, more corrupt cities used it as a bottomless petty cash drawer. He knew.

      • snarkk's avatar snarkk said, on July 6, 2021 at 1:58 pm

        Ah, the lovely Linda.
        Looks like some of the Eagles and maybe Jackson Browne.
        They weren’t together too long, but for his sake, hopefully long enough for Linda to give the former seminarian “a real education”…

      • unca_chuck's avatar unca_chuck said, on July 6, 2021 at 2:18 pm

        Is that Lindsey Buckingham on the left? Recognize Joe Walsh and Glenn Frey.

      • zumiee's avatar zumiee said, on July 6, 2021 at 2:34 pm

        Don Henley with the Afro. It looks to me like all five Eagles, Jackson Browne, J.D. Souther, Linda, and Jerry.

      • xoot's avatar xoot said, on July 6, 2021 at 2:32 pm

        In recent interviews Ronstadt talks about her life long friendship with Brown. Even more so about Emmy Lou Harris. Parkinson’s is a tough way to go but she has grace and courage. Good documentary out, too.

      • zumiee's avatar zumiee said, on July 6, 2021 at 2:37 pm

        Yes, I think I saw the same documentary. Very well done.

      • snarkk's avatar snarkk said, on July 6, 2021 at 2:56 pm

        I saw Linda’s documentary, too.
        The Parkinson’s thing is just so sad, and it pisses me off.
        She’s handling it well, or so it appears. To be rendered unable to sing must be torture for someone so accomplished. She lives in SF somewhere over there in or near St. Francis Wood. Now that she is a short, good looking mid ’70s lady with grayish hair, it’s a little offputting to me, but just fleetingly. Everybody gets old – if you’re lucky. She’s one of my all time FAV women singers, of any genre. And of public people. She is as smart as a whip; she never was hamstrung intellectually by college. Extremely well read. As one can see/hear, she’s always been extremely articulate and opinionated on the left side of things. Not even close to being just a pretty face with massive vocal talent. Back in 2019 just before Covid, she nailed Pompeo’s ass in a public Kennedy Center honors event at the State Dept. In his remarks, he referenced one of her hits to serve himself, so he started it. She finished it. You can google it, quite delicious…

  3. willedav's avatar willedav said, on July 6, 2021 at 1:31 pm

    wow Have fun Flav enjoy your vacation.
    Met friend for breakfast this morning who has trip planned to visit National Parks at Yellowstone Bryce and couple others in Utah I believe. Asked her about weather and she said it can vary widely.
    One of my coaching buddies grew up in Utah (and did internment time in camp for Japanese) before family moved to Sunnyvale early 60s/late 50s. Used to play pick up b-ball with Eric Paulson back in the day.
    anyway couple years ago he and Mrs. went back to their roots. Drove from Grand Canyon up through Utah all the way to Salt Lake stopping at parks along the way. Great trip he said.

  4. unca_chuck's avatar unca_chuck said, on July 6, 2021 at 2:30 pm

    Have a nice vacation, Flav. Sure you’ll have a better time that we did on our recent trip. We went to Maui to pet shit a friend of a friend. Brutally hot, only one room with AC, and since it was an upstairs downstairs duplex, it never cooled off in the house. The cats hated us and shit all over the house the first couple days. My daughter, who was there the previous week, left a giant diarrhea turd in one of the closets for me to clean. It was soft on top, concrete on the bottom. That room stank to high heaven. The house cleaner had accidentally closed the closet door on one of the cat as the closets were the coolest spots in the house.

    The dogs were cool. We would take walks with our friends out there at like 7:30 before it got crazy hot. But the dogs managed to escape the last night we were there, and as we were walking back from watching the sunset, one of them nearly got run over by a car, and we saw her tearing down the street in abject terror. The other dog was just wandering near the house. All in all, it was a ton of work that we weren’t really expecting.

    My daughters were just at Yellowstone last Friday and said it was pretty cool. Gonna go out there in a couple weeks to see the kids.

  5. Winder's avatar Winder said, on July 6, 2021 at 2:38 pm

    That is a great picture. Enjoy your vacation Flav it sounds like you’ll be moving around quite a bit. Had a friend a long time ago that used to say ‘as long as the wheels are turning everything is ok’, he moved around a lot.

  6. zumiee's avatar zumiee said, on July 6, 2021 at 2:51 pm

    This clip from a movie does a good job of depicting Lennon meeting McCartney on this day in 1957. Paul blew John’s mind with how well he could play an Eddie Cochran song, and John acted only mildly intrigued. But it made a big impression on John, and he would eventually invite Paul and, later, Paul’s friend George to join his band, and would jettison all the other band members, and look for a drummer.
    (Eddie Cochran died at age 21 in a car wreck while on tour in Britain. Cochran was a huge musical influence at the time, but isn’t remembered so much today, sadly.)

    • xoot's avatar xoot said, on July 6, 2021 at 3:06 pm

      I’d like to help you son, but you’re too young to vote.

      • willedav's avatar willedav said, on July 6, 2021 at 3:15 pm

        ha he said quote. Great line great tune

  7. willedav's avatar willedav said, on July 6, 2021 at 3:17 pm

    Lovely Linda indeed. I had her self titled LP, more country one, great pic of her with hoop earrings wow.
    In the vid for I Still Miss Someone (my fav track) they show a shot of the group in the pic Zumie’s got up, with her turned toward Jerry and smiling with others in background. good stuff

    • snarkk's avatar snarkk said, on July 6, 2021 at 4:12 pm

      Yeah, that one was her 3rd and last solo album for Capitol. She was 25 at the time. Great photo cover shot — what eyes !
      Still country (“I Fall to PIeces”), which Patsy Cline had made famous a decade earlier) but moving a bit to country rock. First album where essentially all the early Eagles were contributing musicians. Her next one was her first real break out album with famous cover of Eagles “Desperado”, and really moving into country Rock. Next LP “Heart Like a Wheel” was her explosion onto the public stage and the charts, and fully into Country Rock with “When Will I Be Loved”, “You’re’ No Good”, and other hits. Info from Wiki and my knowledge of her history…

  8. snarkk's avatar snarkk said, on July 6, 2021 at 3:53 pm

    Sherfy DFA’d.
    JayKat onto the IL
    Vosler up
    Beede off the 60 day IL and on up …

    • willedav's avatar willedav said, on July 6, 2021 at 4:01 pm

      I like Vosler, think he’ll help Kap’s platoon lineups. Too bad about JD.
      Sherfy a casualty of shopping exclusively in Brebbia aisle…not everyone picked up there by Z/H is gonna work out. There are gonna be your occasional Wisler type fails.

  9. djloo27's avatar djloo27 said, on July 6, 2021 at 4:10 pm

    1. LaMonte Wade Jr (L) 1B
    2. Mike Yastrzemski (L) RF
    3. Wilmer Flores (R) 3B
    4. Alex Dickerson (L) LF
    5. Brandon Crawford (L) SS
    6. Donovan Solano (R) 2B
    7. Steven Duggar (L) CF
    8. Chadwick Tromp (R) C
    9. Johnny Cueto (R) P

  10. xoot's avatar xoot said, on July 6, 2021 at 4:12 pm

    As we hit the break.

  11. unca_chuck's avatar unca_chuck said, on July 6, 2021 at 4:20 pm

    OK, Jaylin, been pulling for you for a couple season now. You gotta stop pulling shit yourself.

    Jeebus. Tauchman? Feeling good about a bus ride? Oh well. The way our OFers hit the IL, he’ll stick around. He and his interstate BA. Highway .001 anyone?

    • xoot's avatar xoot said, on July 6, 2021 at 4:27 pm

      Come on. It’s iota .080.

    • snarkk's avatar snarkk said, on July 6, 2021 at 4:34 pm

      I have no detailed recollection of LaStella on this squad, other than he couldn’t hit much during the brief time he played, and that his fielding was adequate, to put it generously…

      • xoot's avatar xoot said, on July 6, 2021 at 4:44 pm

        Well, he’s signed for three years, so maybe we’ll have time to get to know him.

  12. xoot's avatar xoot said, on July 6, 2021 at 4:35 pm

    Was Beede a member of the five fives? I can’t recall. I do remember his failed attempt to become a power pitcher with a 94 mph four seamer.

    • willedav's avatar willedav said, on July 6, 2021 at 4:42 pm

      rehab assignment didn’t go so well either. See what role is/how much rope he’s given.
      Black shoes are good look though!

  13. snarkk's avatar snarkk said, on July 6, 2021 at 4:43 pm

    Can’t say I’m optimistic about Beede.
    He’s 28+ and hasn’t shown he really belongs at the MLB level.
    If he still can’t throw strikes consistently, and still blows a mental gasket every time there’s traffic on base or there’s a miscue behind him that costs a base or a run — then he’s done as far as I’m concerned. Trade him and his wife for a bucket of balls and a single A pitcher, and move on…

  14. zumiee's avatar zumiee said, on July 6, 2021 at 4:44 pm

    Chuck, your pet-sitting story was epic. Thanks for sharing it.

    • snarkk's avatar snarkk said, on July 6, 2021 at 4:53 pm

      Yeah, it was especially great since at noon the older snarkkette, on a week’s pet sitting stint, welcomed a guest dog into our house.
      A slightly overweight and seemingly affable gelded Golden. She’s done dog walking work with “Max” before, so he’s somewhat a known quantity.
      I’m keeping closet doors closed…

  15. djloo27's avatar djloo27 said, on July 6, 2021 at 4:54 pm

    Beede’s entrance music…

    • xoot's avatar xoot said, on July 6, 2021 at 5:14 pm

      I can see those black shoes steppin

  16. willedav's avatar willedav said, on July 6, 2021 at 5:33 pm

    Really like Devin Booker’s game.
    Hope no Kardashians are in stands.

  17. Flavor's avatar Flavor said, on July 6, 2021 at 5:59 pm

    San Dawg is camping or I’m sure we’d be hearing his excited tones regarding the Beede call up. He fucking loves him.

    • willedav's avatar willedav said, on July 6, 2021 at 6:16 pm

      yes. I was texting him the day J D hit a slam for Sac. Beede was pitching that day, and was on base in black shoes when Davis hit the HR.

    • snarkk's avatar snarkk said, on July 6, 2021 at 6:21 pm

      If he has to wear flip flops to throw strikes, I’m in.
      If after TJ and all the rehab and 7 years in from the 2014 draft, he still can’t find the plate with his black shoes, get rid of him and his shoes…

  18. zumiee's avatar zumiee said, on July 6, 2021 at 6:36 pm

    Such an odd commercial: Dickerson gets emotional talking about his dad, and then eats cheese-steak.
    And cheese-steak is gross, IMO.

    • djloo27's avatar djloo27 said, on July 6, 2021 at 7:11 pm

      Been in Philadelphia many times and never touched one.
      Just give me soft pretzels and beer…

  19. alleykat69's avatar alleykat69 said, on July 6, 2021 at 6:58 pm

    Don’t really see the Beede callup, he’s been terrible with his command.
    I would still go with Webb, maybe it’s audition time for a trade only for black shoes..

    Freaking Arenado why couldn’t he have gone to the AL?

  20. djloo27's avatar djloo27 said, on July 6, 2021 at 7:09 pm

    Cueto’s not happy unless he’s on his ass once a game…

  21. snarkk's avatar snarkk said, on July 6, 2021 at 7:12 pm

    Arenado with yet another HR. 31 career now vs. SF, the top guy in HRs vs. Giants in last 10 years, per Kuiper.
    82 mph changeup right over the plate.
    He does not hammer other teams like this. Coming into this set, he wasn’t doing great at bat.
    Cardinals play by play said he loves changeups.
    I don’t understand why they don’t do something else, some other plan. Anything.
    Just walk him. Hit him. Something. And yes, with Goldschmidt on first…

    • djloo27's avatar djloo27 said, on July 6, 2021 at 7:27 pm

      It never sank in with Bochy either…

    • Macdog's avatar Macdog said, on July 6, 2021 at 7:30 pm

      Must be the same person who does the scouting report on Muncy.

  22. djloo27's avatar djloo27 said, on July 6, 2021 at 7:21 pm

    Nice job by the GD…

  23. willedav's avatar willedav said, on July 6, 2021 at 7:26 pm

    Giants promoted SS Wil Wilson from High A Eugene to AA Richmond.
    Maybe precursor to sending Luciano up to High A from San Jose.

  24. willedav's avatar willedav said, on July 6, 2021 at 7:27 pm

    there it is Najee and Nakken.
    yeow Haley Jones from Santa Cruz and Archbishop Mitty of San Jose, national champ Stanford women.

  25. xoot's avatar xoot said, on July 6, 2021 at 7:33 pm

    Never had a cheesesteak but I bet the really good ones are basically huge, soft, tasty americano style tacos large enough individually to feed a family ( who we hope would have some fresh fruit for dessert).

  26. unca_chuck's avatar unca_chuck said, on July 6, 2021 at 7:37 pm

    I see we are paralyzed by the offspeed stuff.

  27. willedav's avatar willedav said, on July 6, 2021 at 7:42 pm

    Suns up16 just under 5 minutes left in 3rd. Paul and Booker combined 37 so far, lot of midrange and lobs to Ayton for easy hoops.

    • willedav's avatar willedav said, on July 6, 2021 at 7:44 pm

      Ayton 7-8 from floor 16 points and 16 boards.

    • Macdog's avatar Macdog said, on July 6, 2021 at 7:50 pm

      Fun fact: Suns and Bucks have met once before in the playoffs, Bucks sweeping first round best-of-3 series in ’78.

  28. Macdog's avatar Macdog said, on July 6, 2021 at 7:43 pm

    I love cheesesteaks. There are two popular cheesesteak spots in south Philly across the street from each other, Pat’s and Geno’s, I prefer Pat’s. I’ve had cheesesteak snobs chastise me for this, claiming those two are touristy places that don’t make real cheesesteaks. Whatever. Maybe some day I’ll try another place in Philly.

  29. Macdog's avatar Macdog said, on July 6, 2021 at 7:45 pm

    Goldy kills the Giants in other ways.

  30. Macdog's avatar Macdog said, on July 6, 2021 at 7:46 pm

    Yeah Craw!

  31. unca_chuck's avatar unca_chuck said, on July 6, 2021 at 7:46 pm

    It completely baffles me that you see Arenado, Goldschmidt, Muncy, etc. just crush us over and over and over. It’s like, what part of the last 15 home runs didn’t you register?

    Yessssss!! Crawfiish!!!

  32. djloo27's avatar djloo27 said, on July 6, 2021 at 7:47 pm

    MVP! MVP!

  33. zumiee's avatar zumiee said, on July 6, 2021 at 7:49 pm

    Sometimes less is more; a bloop can get it done.

  34. alleykat69's avatar alleykat69 said, on July 6, 2021 at 7:54 pm

    Crawford is as smooth as a 12 year old scotch !
    Nothing rattles him if he’s going good are bad.
    You have to have that even keel every day in baseball ⚾️ other wise the game will grind you into pulp..

  35. PaulinAsia Banh Bao's avatar PaulinAsia Banh Bao said, on July 6, 2021 at 7:56 pm

    Cheesesteaks are like any other sandwich in that the quality differs from sandwich maker to sandwich maker. I think Mac and I talked about this before, growing up in Jersey, sandwiched (haha) between Philly and NY, the cheesesteak and the deli, with Jersey’s own Taylor Pork Roll in the middle of that particular geographical sandwich heaven. If the steak is lean not gristled, and the bun is fresh and soft, with melted cheese and oily fried peppers and onions piled on, sometimes with a tangy red sauce, all seeping into the soft bread… man, tough to beat. Also tough to eat if you don’t finish it before the bread gets oily soggy…

    • xoot's avatar xoot said, on July 6, 2021 at 8:02 pm

      Pennzoil?

      • PaulinAsia Banh Bao's avatar PaulinAsia Banh Bao said, on July 6, 2021 at 8:15 pm

        lulz

  36. djloo27's avatar djloo27 said, on July 6, 2021 at 8:03 pm

    Laid it right in there for him…

  37. Macdog's avatar Macdog said, on July 6, 2021 at 8:04 pm

    And Cueto gives the Cards the lead right back.

  38. unca_chuck's avatar unca_chuck said, on July 6, 2021 at 8:06 pm

    Brilliant to walk carlson to get to Goldie. Cueto is giving it away

  39. Macdog's avatar Macdog said, on July 6, 2021 at 8:09 pm

    So the Cards have built a lineup to beat just the Giants and no one else.

  40. alleykat69's avatar alleykat69 said, on July 6, 2021 at 8:13 pm

    Oh come on u have to give Shimmy a hit there?

  41. unca_chuck's avatar unca_chuck said, on July 6, 2021 at 8:15 pm

    Cueto has saved this inning so far.

  42. snarkk's avatar snarkk said, on July 6, 2021 at 8:15 pm

    Cueto seems like pretty much just a guy nowadays.
    He has trouble closing batters out.
    Goldschmidt’s too good to miss that 92 mph FB cripple right over the plate at 3-2…

  43. snarkk's avatar snarkk said, on July 6, 2021 at 8:20 pm

    Time for Cueto to go before this gets outta hand…

  44. xoot's avatar xoot said, on July 6, 2021 at 8:25 pm

    Yadier is an asshole.

  45. zumiee's avatar zumiee said, on July 6, 2021 at 8:26 pm

    Panik had a chance to help the Giants tonight, but struck out in the ninth inning.

  46. alleykat69's avatar alleykat69 said, on July 6, 2021 at 8:30 pm

    Craw does it all!

  47. snarkk's avatar snarkk said, on July 6, 2021 at 8:31 pm

    Good thing Craw is awake tonight, or it’d be 4-0…

  48. snarkk's avatar snarkk said, on July 6, 2021 at 8:31 pm

    Tromp has some pop. Let’s see it…

    • snarkk's avatar snarkk said, on July 6, 2021 at 8:34 pm

      I said pop.
      Not pop up…

  49. djloo27's avatar djloo27 said, on July 6, 2021 at 8:38 pm

    I don’t know how many fans showed up at Citifield to see deGrom tonight, but the game (which never started) was finally called after 3 hours of rain. Those who paid the non-refundable $25 parking fee must be extra happy…

    • Macdog's avatar Macdog said, on July 6, 2021 at 9:02 pm

      And a split doubleheader tomorrow at full game prices.

  50. alleykat69's avatar alleykat69 said, on July 6, 2021 at 8:40 pm

    That was one hell of a play by both Barrels and Shimmy to get that out..

  51. djloo27's avatar djloo27 said, on July 6, 2021 at 8:42 pm

    Cueto is a magnet for wackiness…

  52. unca_chuck's avatar unca_chuck said, on July 6, 2021 at 8:42 pm

    Damn. Couple sweet plays by Cueto.

  53. xoot's avatar xoot said, on July 6, 2021 at 8:42 pm

    I think Johnny Cueto is terrific. I love to watch him play the game. I just wish he pitched better these days.

  54. alleykat69's avatar alleykat69 said, on July 6, 2021 at 8:43 pm

    Gold Glove Johnny making the plays at 1st base..

  55. unca_chuck's avatar unca_chuck said, on July 6, 2021 at 8:43 pm

    He has his fun that’s for sure. The low 5 with Sosa was some respect.

  56. Macdog's avatar Macdog said, on July 6, 2021 at 8:45 pm

    Marlins walk off win on Dodgers throwing error!

  57. unca_chuck's avatar unca_chuck said, on July 6, 2021 at 8:45 pm

    Slater fucking dogging

  58. willedav's avatar willedav said, on July 6, 2021 at 8:46 pm

    Never dull moment. If Cueto thought Wade Jr. was gonna take it himself then what was he doing standing on the bag in his way?

  59. xoot's avatar xoot said, on July 6, 2021 at 8:46 pm

    Slater gets one into the vortex. He didn’t run.

  60. alleykat69's avatar alleykat69 said, on July 6, 2021 at 8:47 pm

    Ahh The Oracle winds kicked in for Slater who Dogged it! Should of been a leadoff double.

  61. willedav's avatar willedav said, on July 6, 2021 at 8:48 pm

    Nice job by Mattingly boys to take 2 in a row from ex bosses.
    Panik btw now working for guy he idolized as SS growing up in New York, Jeter.

  62. xoot's avatar xoot said, on July 6, 2021 at 8:51 pm

    Slater failed to run again. He’s fast. He wasn’t ready. Again. Imo.

  63. Macdog's avatar Macdog said, on July 6, 2021 at 9:08 pm

    I had a feeling Arenado was going to try and steal, and sure enough, but apparently not the Giants

  64. unca_chuck's avatar unca_chuck said, on July 6, 2021 at 9:08 pm

    Oh well. These guys are spanking us. 11 LOB?

  65. alleykat69's avatar alleykat69 said, on July 6, 2021 at 9:13 pm

    Stupid pitching by Brebbia, first not holding Arenado closer to first for an easy steal, then 1-2 on Molina and you been having him fishing in the dirt on breaking balls, and u give him the only thing he could handle a fastball up, just a bad choice of a pitch when u could of wasted a few..

  66. djloo27's avatar djloo27 said, on July 6, 2021 at 9:17 pm

    Fastball loving Grave Duggar should like facing this guy…

  67. willedav's avatar willedav said, on July 6, 2021 at 9:26 pm

    so much for Brebbia aisle.

  68. Macdog's avatar Macdog said, on July 6, 2021 at 9:26 pm

    Cleanup needed in the Brebbia aisle.

  69. xoot's avatar xoot said, on July 6, 2021 at 9:27 pm

    Brebbia always has thrown more than 50% FBs. Wtf was that?

  70. djloo27's avatar djloo27 said, on July 6, 2021 at 9:28 pm

    Too many pitches…

  71. alleykat69's avatar alleykat69 said, on July 6, 2021 at 9:36 pm

    So will Beede get the full TJ acknowledgment like Brebbia from Kruk&Kapler if he gets hammered in his start?

  72. snarkk's avatar snarkk said, on July 6, 2021 at 9:37 pm

    Looks like the Giants less than stellar OF offense is finally catching up with them.
    Cardinals were sucking eggs on offense until they arrived at Oracle, too…

  73. xoot's avatar xoot said, on July 6, 2021 at 9:47 pm

    Oh these guys are cards!

  74. alleykat69's avatar alleykat69 said, on July 6, 2021 at 9:51 pm

    Sure be an adventure in the outfield for the Cardinals tonight.. They have butchered many a baseball in the outfield.

  75. unca_chuck's avatar unca_chuck said, on July 6, 2021 at 9:53 pm

    Another sloppy pen game. Cueto may wear this loss but the pen did a shit job holding the point.


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