Starting Off on the Wrong Foot….
We sort of played right into their hands last night, didn’t we? Got 2 quick ones and then it just felt like we didn’t keep coming. The pitchers pitched defensively, too. You don’t try to protect a 2-0 lead in that park, you put your foot on their throat and keep hitting and hitting and hitting….
Ray has been marginal, at best, since he got here…….
Since May 16th Zito has won two games….And it’s not a lack of run support, he’s given up plenty of leads over that stretch…….
Blanton is just a *guy*, he’s an innings eater. He’ll give up 2 runs in the 1st while eating a couple of ham sandwiches on the way to 6 or 7 innings of ho-hum pitched ball. We need to be aggressive against this team, in their park against this average-ass pitcher…….
One *over* in the books, 2 to go….
A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball 
Taking up yesterday’s theme, the real question is whether or not the starting pitching has “declined” over the year. That’s what the evidence is inconclusive on.
Starter ERAs by month
April: 2.64
May: 3.80
June: 4.12
July: 3.29
August (through 10 games): 4.99
The poor offensive performances of Franchez, Schierholtz, Molina, and Rowand (1100 PAs combined, nearly 25% of the team’s total) has done more to hamper the Giants’ playoff drive than the recent slump by the starting pitchers.
That’s 15 games for August.
That was a game we could have won without the glaring game mismanagement.
No way with a game 4-3 that you let Ray keep pitching with bases loaded and you likely don’t let Zito keep pitching after the Werth double.
Bochy has been a plus manager this year but in a very important game to start a very important series, Bochy failed.
I’ve been thinking about yesterday’s topics, too, and, really, I think it’s time we asked whether Buster’s inability to grow a scruffy 3 or 4 day beard at will is holding this team back. He’s been the only one on the squad unable to man up. This might not be a huge deal– maybe it’s 1% of the reason they’ve taken a dive recently, maybe 5%, maybe 50%, who knows–but it’s a factor worth considering. That and his apparent reluctance to hit laser HRs off the LF foul pole.
Oh, wait. Then there’s Lincecum . . . . hmmm. On to something here — easy way to bash both at the same time!
good ones xoot…
I was perplexed that after Zitshit labored thru the B5(2 runs on 26 pitches) which was followed and magnified by our woeful T6 (7 pitches) that no one was warming up after that 3rd out was recorded on Burrell. You could see that shit coming. I believe I used the term last night of “close your eyes” after it happened. Apparently Bochy had his “Eyes Wide Shut.”
Dennis, when the shit is hitting the fan, you usually stand aside. Bochy decided to let her fly with him standing in front.
I still see a chance to go 3-3 but Bud Black is doing a phenomenal job. Too bad he turned us down for San Diego…again I am not bashing Bochy. I did noot like hiring him in the first place and I am no fan obviously, but I can say he has doen a good job this year.
If we come up short of making it into the playoffs, I think an assesment has to be made if they need to go in a different direction to get the team over the hump. We have been graced with extraordinary starting pitching for the last year and a half..will the staff as is hold up through next year?
No way Posey can match Molina for game calling experience in working with SPs besides Bum. What guy has working, the opposing hitters, the ump, game situation all fator into pitch selection and location. This is why he spent so much time in Fresno, because mgmt and leaders of PS were leery of giving him this much responsibility. It’s going to take time, esp when a guy is struggling.
Guillen’s HR reminds me of a guy who hits his first 20 footer and spends the rest of the night shooting his team out of the game. See what happens, but I don’t think it was a good thing.
I guess we can trace Molina’s decline in pitch calling prowess from April to May, and Buster’s progress from June to July. Clearly the recondite complexities of this great art are once again confounding the young man .. . maybe it’s the August heat.
Willied, are you talking about my bball game:)
But he hit a huge won last night to get it 4-3 when absolutely no one else was doiing anything after the first with Oswalt. He has some gas in that swing and hope it is not all-show either.
so when exactly do you bring up Posey? You are either a pro player or you are not, Posey is one. I hardly think he is the reason for Tim’s decline much less any of the other pitchers on the staff.
Jays are in town, but where’s Fred?
Flav, what is the over tonight?
Rain all day in Philly will keep the temps much lower. Looks liek the rain should hold off ffrom the game hopefully…
O/U of 9.
I don’t think Fred’s hurt, just slumping. .152 for the month.
Braves on the verge of getting D. Lee to help compensate for losing Larry. NL East is gonna be a great battle down the stretch.
Larry?
Flav, I do not officially back your over bet tonight with the rain. I dont want to mess with my 3-0 record with your bets…
Oh I see, Larry Jones.
I think that is Larry Chipper Jones..we saw the Braves here a couple of weeks ago and my buddy was heckling Chipper for the apparent wife he met at Hooters…
Dennis that is turning into a better race than ours in the West. I think the phills are going to catch Atlanta. I am not sold on their lineup even with Derek Lee.
Their staff is not as good as Halladay-Oswalt-Hammels either. Braves may have a better bullpen but Wagner has blown games. We may be truly battling the Braves for the Wild Card but I have not given up on the Division yet. I think CIncy will fade in the heat of a race.
See the balll hit the ball. Execution is everything. The manager makes marginal difference in the outcome.
Well, Mike, you get your wish in my case . . .
Off to SF State for the day to pack my daughter off to college. My going away gift to her is a Buster Posey jersey . . .
So, your fuckwadian posts shall be dorected at someone else. If only for 1 day
Nipper, except when the manager chooses to pitch to hitters with bases open and leaving in a ragged reliever who loaded the bases to keep pitching with zero outs.
Those are all managerial decisions that cost them the game last night, pure and simple. Maybe he walks the righty Rollins with first base open to face the lefty Utley fresh off the DL and Utley gets a hit, but you got to play the percentages and expect that Zito will more likely get the lefty Utley out than Rollins.
Chuck have a great day..I dont want to see the day where I have to pack up any of my 5 kids for college…
the O/U is 9 tonight. Rain forcast but the humidity should be down–balls will be flying out of the yard. And Huff/Bat/Guillen still have 5 bombs to hit over the next two days……..
Hopefully a couple of those bombs will come with some baserunners. This isn’t so much a must-win game as it is a must-win matchup. The Giants simply cannot lose Cain vs. Blanton, especially with tomorrow a tossup at best.
the park played differently last year when I saw that game in ealry Sept when it was much colder in the evening. But Blanton sucks and hopefully we score 5-6 for you. Are the Giants the underdog? I maybe take the run and a half instead if that was my bet…
Speaking of Huff and if he is in the lineup, I think he needs to be hitting 7th right now behind Guillen instead of 5th as I mentioned yesterday.
I think with how cold Huff is, maybe stick Panda 5th between the two right-handers in Burrell and Guillen. Posey third instead. Fontenot second. I am down on Franchez big time.
I floated the idea of trying to move Franchez to the Rnagers. Is there any way to track if he was put on waivers at all?
Cold is putting it mildly. Huff’s August: .186.294.322 .616 0 HRs and only 3RBI
Screw moving him to 7th tonight, sit him down and give Ish a t start. He’s 2for3 vs Phat Joe.
that’s in 59 ABs
I am all for sitting him tonight..cant hurt the team and can help Huff
Not wise to do Sabean’s thinking. He does it better anyway. After all he has a staff to work with.
Yeah, and it’s quite a staff. Sabes’ big decisions have been Zito (2007), Rowand (2008), Rent (2009), Freddy (twice), and DeRosa (2010). About $52M of “thinking.”
and there was no need or obligation to pick up Franchez’ contract.
July streak was all about scoring runs, an MLB best. SF’s run production in this 5-8 slump: 1, 2, 0, 3, 6, 2, 2, 3. Tough to focus on Bochy, Tim, the Bullpen, Posey’s pitch calling, etc. SF has 13 or 14 position players, and half of them Freddy, Rent, Rowand, Ishi, Nate, and Eli border on useless.
Jed, the offense scored 23 runs on the lowly Cubs and the Cubs almost beat us all four games because our pitching was floundering.
The losses we have had in this streak include hitting against Jimenez, Jurrjens, Hudson, Lowe (should have killed him, but our pitchers gave up 6 runs), Dempster, Richard, LeBlanc and Oswalt. Pretty fucking goood set of arms.
And we managed to win the one game against Latos even though he pitched superbly and may be the best of that group right now. You cannot expect with 5 of the 8 losses on the road against this type of quality pitching for the hitting to go gang-busters.
In 5 of those losses, the pitching has given up 37 runs. More than 7 runs a game. What hitting is going to keep up with that?
One more win against the Padres would have had us feeling much better and yesterday’s 8th inning deflated our hopes..
All good points. But when you look at the months when SF was rolling in 2009 (June) and 2010 (July), run production was the difference. SF has usually been a .500 team (+/- a game) in months with brilliant pitching.
Ah but today might be the day!
Jesus. This is one bitter thread. You guys should all be put on a suicide watch.
1-800-SUICIDE
1-800-784-2433
If the line’s busy, well,….
That was a very humanitarian gesture, dennis
Ted, less than a week ago we were 1.5 games out from the lead in the division and now we are 5 games out.
Lost the wild card lead, playing a brutal road series against two of our wild card competitors for the moment and they are both challenging for their own division leads.
Bitter? Just reality my friend. We can get back into it, but the starters have to regain their dominance and that has to start with Cain tonight and Sanchez tomorrow. A 3-3 road trip is a moral victory and may get us back into the division hunt…
It is all about the pitching…at least that is what Bill Clinton said.
“It’s the pitching, stupid.”
That is it…thanks Dennis!
Giants are 21-31 vs. teams with winning records. That is the worst record against winning teams of all the wild card candidates. That is a telling stat about the quality of this squad. San Diego has a can o corn schedule for the next 4 series, outside of a Philly series which I believe is in Diego. Not suicide watch yet, but have the cell phone ready….
The month of July was a blessing and curse for the G’s. They saw their offense explode against a very favorable schedule ,and lead Sabean and crew to believe that only “minimum” help was needed.Same thing can be said about their starting pitching during July.
Ted Lilly was to be had and the Giants whiffed on him.Acquiring Lilly would have allowed the G’s to move Dirty.
Giants desperately need Panda to play more consistently on both sides of the ball and need some contribution offensively from their 2B spot.Also,Uribe is a great utility player,but his days as a full time player should end this season.Keep your fingers crossed and hope for the best,because what you see now is what the Giants will be playing out the string with.
I like Guillen’s swing. He attacks the damn ball. Whether he’s hurt or is a D liability, we shall see, but right now, anybody that can rip an HR like he did last night should be playing until he proves he shouldn’t be…
I was trying to crunch some numbers in regard to the discussion last night on whether Molina handled the pitching staff better than Posey. I focused on Lincecum since he has dramatically scuffled in his last three starts to see if there was a statistical anamoly to point to if there was an effect with Molina versus Posey and to see what is plaguing Lincecum.
I thought an effective guide for judging effective pitching is strike to ball ratio. I think the above average pitchers have a 2-1 ratio and the superb pitchers are closer to 3-1.
I figured Molina with the fresh arms coming out of spring and especially how effective Lincecum was early would have had much better strike to ball percentages.
In 15 starts with Bengie, Tim was 8-3 and 5 no decisions. Tim averaged 108 pitches in those starts. The strike to ball rate under Bengie was .631. On only 4 starts did Tim break the 2-1 strike ratio suprisingly.
In 7 starts with Buster, Tim has gone only 2-3 and 2 no decisions. He is averaging just 102 pitches per start, but that is because he has pitched less innings and given up more hits and runs under Posey. But his strike to ball rate is actually better under Posey. .645 compared to Bengie’s .631 rate and Tim has surpassed the 2-1 strike to ball rate twice. So close to Bengie’s mark with twice as many starts for Bengie over Posey catching Tim.
Lincecum has given up 51 hits and 23 runs with Posey compared to 81 hits and just 34 runs to Bengie. Tim is giving up 44% more hits and 56% more runs with Posey catching.
So what does any of this mean? It appears that Tim is throwing more strikes under Posey but giving up more hits. But it is obvious that his velocity is down. I am surprised with his low percentages on the strike ratio. But it has been consistent all year and I think the source for his current troubles. He has thrown a lot of balls. So instead of getting easy outs all year, he has pitched longer and thrown more balls, obviously wearing out his arm and becoming statistically less effective while Posey has been catching him.
So on the front of it, one could argue that Bengie was more effective, but it seems that is a false comparison because his velocity is obviously down and has thrown too many balls consistently throughout the year. He has thrown exactly 2650 pitches so far this year. Anyone have a sense of what is an average year for pitches thrown?
Will try and look at the comparisons with the rest of Zito, Cain and Sanchez.
Just for clarification, all “hits” are considered strikes, no matter location, correct?
I think that is right. I could only find a list of pitches thrown and a list of strikes.
Padres 2-0, mid-1st. Stairs almost hit a grand slam, so it could’ve been worse.
The two starters with both the stuff and mental make up to step up are Cain and Bumgarner. Tim is a good competitor but he’s at sea right now, Sanchez is, uh, Sanchez, and Zits? To laugh. So Matt is the guy… Whether it’s 1-0 or 8-7 he has to beat Joe Fucking Blanton.
Slightly dispapointed when Sanchez got that 2-0 lead Friday and gave it right up. Not one must do when you not only guaranteed a sweep but to say they will tkae first and not look back…huevos on the face Jonathan?
Not to be a prick but guys learn how to spell “disappointed.” It’s a word frequently seen and butchered. Anyway I like Cain very much. I admire his toughness and skill.
Not to be a prick but guys (comma) learn how to spell “disappointed.” It’s a word frequently seen and butchered. Anyway (comma) I like Cain very much. I admire his toughness and skill.
BTW, which post here has the word “disappointed” besides yours?
I don’t know what’s worse, Brett Favre holding a 30 min press conf. to announce what we already knew, or the fact that I watched it.
If Alex Smith threw a pass to Vernon Davis in the forest and no one was there to see it, would it still hit the ground?
What’s wrong, Nipper, did the beer delivery guy forget your address?
They don’t make stops at cardboard house addresses any longer.
From Henry: Chris Ray goes on the DL with a right intercostal strain. Jeremy Affeldt reinstated from the DL.
First guy who knows where the intercostal muscles are located wins a free slab of BBQ ribs.
Intercostal strain, aka Ray’s last night’s suckage = he was left standing when the Pen music stopped on who gets the DL slip to make room for Affeldt…
“I admire his toughness and skill.” That is how Nipper adjusts the Soph take to fit the Nipper style…
So, GH, if you were disapppointed to see Dirty give up a 2 run lead, you must have been suicidal last night. I’m going to repeat this until it sinks in, Poole understands it, as do all knowledgeable baseball people: the starting pitching is the strength of this team. Bitch endlessly about hitting slumps, but they happen: to EVERYBODY. Philly had a terrible one, all teams do. This team is going to the playoffs if the starting 4 ( i’m leaving MadBum out, he’s been the fucking ACE) regain their mojo. Otherwise they are toast. Period. Last night was a game Zitfuck HAS to win after they give him 2. If our 40 million buck top 3 can’t win most of those games, forget the postseason.
What’s this “if” shit? Last week we were still gonna runaway and win by 5 games.
Which is it? Maybe I should ask Nipper. He never minces words.
Same as yesterday: Torres CF, Posey C, Huff 1B, Burrell LF, Guillen RF, Sandoval 3B, Uribe SS, Fontenot 2B, Cain P
Shut the fuck up, Dennis. I made a call, try it, cocksucker. Instead of retroactively slamming mine.
The season has been over 236 times for Dennis. This is easily the nelliest baseball fan in the world.
BTW, loved GHead on Guillen yesterday. He “brought his name up” once. Wow, what a CALL!!!!
So it’s 3-1 Pads,going to the bottom of the 7th.Just another lock down win for those ass holes, closing it out with Gregerson,Adams,and Bell.Fuck the Padres,if you don’t get to them by the 6th inning it’s over.#1 pitching staff has a way of doing that to teams.
I make calls all the time. Made one this morning in fact. I wanted Ishi to start tonight in favor of Huff who as we all know is struggling. Bochy didn’t listen to me, take it up with the skipper.
I brought Guillen’s name up a number of times myself. Negatively. Nice homer the other day but for me, the jury’s still out. Although I don’t find fault with how the contract appears to be structured
Guillen, once, and Burrell, twice, have taken The Eater deep. Not as much success against this slug as might be expected. Huff 3 for 17, Uribe 1-8, Fontenot 1-6, Panda 0-3, Burrell 2-9 2 HR, Guillen 4-13 1 HR, Buster N/A, Torres N/A…
If it’s any consolation- the Giants still have 9 games left with Arizona.
Atta boy, zum!
They are ONE GAME out of the postseason. Consolation is not needed, just a return to form from the Unholy Four.
Yungo…sets the tone
Well nothing like a second deck HR to start the game!!!! Way to smoke it Andres!!!
And amazingly, virtually no one in the media even mentions Andres as team MVP, depite the fact that he is clearly the guy.It’s no longer even close.
There’s no lacking for drama with this staff. Thought that pitch was going to make it 3-1.
Fonten-No!
Flav, I was worried about your over. Maybe not now.
Torres is my MVP.
Well Fonetnot sure doesn’t flash the glove like Sanchez.
So much for stepping up, Matt.
Nice job Matty.
goodnite gracie
Fucking A!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!This just SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Game Over.
We should have been out of the fucking inning…
Must be Posey’s fault Cain can’t ahead of anyone or Fontenot can’t field routine groundes.
Cain with another game crusher. With Diego’s win today, they gotta claw back and win this one, or it’s kiss the division goodbye…
Giants just can’t help themselves from being shitty right now!
Well, it beats hell out of waiting until the 8th to flush another one down the drain
I left the doc’s office early for this shit? He can’t get the 3rd out or in this case, the 4th out to close the door to the damn inning every goddamn time. We’re losing to Phat fucking Joe Blanton.
How’d Alex look in practice today? Jesus.
Carr will be brought in from the Pen to replace Alex as starter no later than game 6…
Gotta flush down some Triple Scotches right now to kill this pain.
Better save some for the rest of this roadie, looks like it could get very ugly…
Jeez, I get up to take a piss and all of a sudden….
Believe we’re gliding down the highway
When in fact we’re slip slidin’ away
Simonized
“Must be Posey’s fault Cain can’t ahead of anyone or Fontenot can’t field routine groundes.”
Shut the fuck up with the Posey shit, I never blamed ANYTHING on him, I questioned the effectiveness of the staff since he took over. It was a topic for conversation, not for sophmoric simplistic bullshit. You people are like 5 year olds.
With that said, of course he shares responsibilty when the starters go south, so don’t all of a sudden pretend the catcher has nothing to do with it.
What happens to the plan of skipping a couple of Bum’s starts now that he’s our #1?
Tomorrow he’ll be at first base and Whitehead behind the plate.
This Giant club is going nowhere.
“What happens to the plan of skipping a couple of Bum’s starts now that he’s our #1?” Pitch him until he drops.
As the season goes down the drain, Miller and Fleming lightheartedly babble non-stop about the fine Philly restaurants they’ve been enjoying.
Hey, why not talk about lunching with Utley’s wife instead of ruminating on Rollins’ 3 run dinger? http://tinyurl.com/2746r7h Beat’s the hell out of watching the Gyros in Philly so far….