“Flags Fly Forever”—Great Quote

Posted in Uncategorized by Flavor on July 28, 2011

This trade is epic in the history of the SF era. Ellis Burks? Negative. Burks got a little better when he got to SF, at least that season. He was a bronze or a silver medal when he was acquired. Beltran is a gold medal. He was the main offensive player available on the current market. And Sabean went out and got him, sending Atlanta, Texas and Philly scurrying for whatever might be lurking in Room B. And he basically got him for free, only having to pay 2 million or so on the rest of the deal. I don’t sweat the cost for a second. Wheeler is a guy who *might* be our 4^th or 5^th starter in 2013. He’s no Alderson but he’s not guaranteed to be a Bumgarner either….

If people haven’t figured it out yet, the Giants are a level below the Red Sox and the Yankees in terms of the money they can spend. They’re above everyone else. The World Series win has taken the financial handcuffs off. If they have to buy an expensive #3 or #4 in 2013 they will do it without blinking. Meanwhile, we have just taken dead aim on defending our crown…….

This pick up will have direct, positive implication on several batters. Torres idolizes this dude. Huff and Sandoval no longer have to feel like they have to be THE GUY—a much better role for both of them. Not to mention the effect it will have on Beltran. Dude, you just went from a me-first clubhouse to the best player clubhouse in all of baseball. He’s going to thrive, we’re going to thrive, and if I had a hat on I would doff it with great deference to Brian Sabean for pulling off a deal I didn’t think he had in him………

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gianthead said, on July 28, 2011 at 7:41 am

What I am surprised to hear is that beltran has apparently been a real clubhouse leader in NY. You never can tell with these superstars if they are more like Bonds and ARod and Hanley Ramirez or more like Will Clark.

So I expect the clubhouse will gell. I still think once the Phillies and others were not putting their top prospects on the table, we could have probably pulled off the trade with 3 lesser players instead of Wheeler. But c’est lavie, the Mets probably should be scared that the prospects we have typically dealt outside of Nathan and liriano have not panned out.

Up to 90.5 points in fantasy, 5 weeks ahead of schedule….panic should be setting in with the rest of the leaders….
Bozo said, on July 28, 2011 at 7:53 am

Hear, hear Flav. well put my man.

So dude, we both got our wishes for this series last night. You got to see a rematch of Howard and BW and I got to see our LOOGY going after three guys.
PawlieKokonuts said, on July 28, 2011 at 8:06 am

…and thanks for using the word “doff.” I like it, with its elegant style, panache, and swagger. We got swagger. We are the champions of the world. Let’s do it again. (I hope Timmy doffs his illness and gets his mojo back; looked a little pale last night. If that’s chaw in his mouth, he should doff that.)
- Del Mar Dennis said, on July 28, 2011 at 8:14 am
  
  I’m hoping Vogelsong gets the nod tonight. He might have a little extra motivation since being released from the Phils minor league organization. And, if Timmy brought this illness upon himself, and that’s a big IF. I’d make him wait another day regardless is he’s ready or not. No one is above the team.
Del Mar Dennis said, on July 28, 2011 at 8:07 am

I’ve been championing this trade from its inception. I actually wanted Beltran way back in part of my Jose Reyes deal, but I guess I can’t get everything. I think this was a must deal in terms of our postseason aspirations. This gives us a true middle-of-the-order-type to now go along with Pablo. I refuse to call Nate Schierholtz a 3-4-5 hitter. Huff? Like Flav said, hopefully this will take the pressure off. He can now hit 6th or even 7th (assuming Bochy slots Ross 5th after the two lefties) vs the right-handers. Should be good news all around.

Bottom line: no complaints here. But I know there are many here that thought Beltran had garlic in his soul and wouldn’t touch him with a 39 and 1/2 foot pole. So I’ll refrain from my usual role of playing the seasick crocodile and allow you naysayers to play the Grinch.
- Bozo said, on July 28, 2011 at 8:56 am
  
  So DMD, would you still trade Dirty for Reyes? I seem to recall that was what you wanted to do way back when.
  - Del Mar Dennis said, on July 28, 2011 at 9:19 am
    
    Bozo, I’d make that trade trade everyday of the week and twice on Sundays.
    Hell YES I’d trade Dirrty for Reyes.
  - Bozo said, on July 28, 2011 at 9:26 am
    
    Sorry Dennis, but I still don’t understand that one.
  - Giant Head said, on July 28, 2011 at 12:30 pm
    
    I would have traded Dirty for Reys…and Beltran and would have kept Wheeler….
unca_chuck said, on July 28, 2011 at 8:10 am

You sound a little more like Soph every day, Dennis . . .
- Del Mar Dennis said, on July 28, 2011 at 8:16 am
  
  Chuck, don’t fuck with me this morning. I’m about to go postal on the 49ers. You wouldn’t want to be the one to push me over the ledge now would you?
- Del Mar Dennis said, on July 28, 2011 at 8:21 am
  
  How many other posters do you know that are busting out “How the Grinch Stole Christmas” lines at 8:00 in the morning? Now shaddup and go tell Jed York I’m coming after his little Napoleon ass. He fucked with the wrong Niner fan.
xootsuit said, on July 28, 2011 at 8:16 am

I agree, well said. This trade is a helluva a way to respond to the serious adversity that has plagued the Giants this season. The never-quit attitude permeates the owners’ box and Sabean’s office, too.

I like the stories re-appearing now about how friendly the Giants and Beltran got during the AS break. (“Oh, we weren’t ‘tampering,’ we were just hanging out.”) In any event, the Giants know him. The situation could not be set up better.
Rough Trade said, on July 28, 2011 at 8:18 am

I didn’t want to give up Wheeler for a rental, but I’m on board and excited. No guarantees with either Beltran or Wheeler, but I’m behind the thinking they need to take advantage of the pitching window now. That can unravel quickly. Just ask Oakland.

Of course Beltran has to produce, but I would agree we should see more consistency from Huff.

Suddenly the lineup (and the bench) look considerably better and Pat can now go and enjoy a 2nd career as a porn star.
unca_chuck said, on July 28, 2011 at 8:35 am

I’m sure the emergence of Surkamp played its part in allowing Sabes to go after Beltran with Wheeler.

All in all, i didn’t think it would happen, but it really shows that this friont office is serious. Great post, Flav. The fact that they did win it all opens doors not previously open to them. It also gives them a better shot at holding on to the big three when their contracts come due.

And yes, here’s hoping that moving Huffie down to the 6 hole gets hiim loosened up a bit.
ewisco said, on July 28, 2011 at 8:37 am

apparently I was wrong abouto sabes making a deal for someone we weren’t talking about. good for him. now carlos has to stay healthy! Hopefully he’ll have so much fun contending for a ring that he’ll want to stay for a couple more years (ideally a 2 year deal. maybe 3 but that’s pushing it at his age and with his health issues). Get buster back and that lineup starts to look pretty darn good. needs a lead off hitter though.

I’d bench whitey today for being a knucklehead. That’s twice now he’s been mentally out of it while a play was going on. can’t have that, especially in your catcher.

for all the comments about the hitters of last fall not hitting today, now we’ve got 3 hitters who weren’t hitting last year. beltran, panda and nate (not that he’s great but he has been coming up with clutch hits from time to time). so maybe all is not lost.
willieD said, on July 28, 2011 at 8:50 am

Checked out the NY Daily News site on the deal, and the comments from bloggers are interesting….most back up Beltran as being a solid player, good guy. Split on whether Alderson got enough for him, but part of the take is that SF is now known for selecting and developing great pitching, so if Mets got our best prospect we were loath to give up, he must have great potential.
Great day for basking, and not in small measure for what Cain did again to Hamels in Philly, where Phils are very successful. Likes of Whitey, rowand, Keps and nate combine for two and the pitchers make it stand up, vs. Rollins, Utley, Howard, et al.
One blogger on cbssports site called Beltran among top Mets OF hitters of all time….so who would that be, besides Straw? Cleon Jones and Tommie Agee? Sheff?
- unca_chuck said, on July 28, 2011 at 9:07 am
  
  Dave Kingman . . .
  - unca_chuck said, on July 28, 2011 at 9:09 am
    
    Oh shit, here we go again. Did The Rat play OF for the Mets? I know he did for the Giants.
    
    BR, take me away!
- Bozo said, on July 28, 2011 at 9:23 am
  
  What? No Love for Mookie? Don’t forget Shinjo.
Nipper said, on July 28, 2011 at 8:58 am

Flappers are happy today. NO bitching.
- Del Mar Dennis said, on July 28, 2011 at 9:17 am
  
  A day without bitching is like a day without a cheap cold one.
Macdog said, on July 28, 2011 at 9:13 am

One of the Philly announcers last night was saying how they’re glad to get Beltran out of the division ’cause he kills the Phils. And sure enough, Beltran has more HRs vs. Philly — 25 — than vs. any other team. The same announcer then groaned that they still have 5 games left with the Giants.
- unca_chuck said, on July 28, 2011 at 9:35 am
  
  Just wait til they meet in the playoffs . . .
Del Mar Dennis said, on July 28, 2011 at 9:26 am

Bill Hall was activated and then released, making room for Carlos. I guess the Bat still lives on…
- Bozo said, on July 28, 2011 at 9:29 am
  
  That makes more sense to me. Pat is a one hell of a cheerleader.
  - ewisco said, on July 28, 2011 at 9:44 am
    
    he’s also decent pop off the bench which is a happy thing. though his sweater girl outfit always brings a smile.
willieD said, on July 28, 2011 at 9:32 am

Couple mets bloggers commented that it was good that Beltran didn’t go to division rivals Atl and Philly, and looked forward to him f-ing up same. Sabes scores early knockdown.
Giants have to be pumped…they just whipped philly in their own yard without Beltran, and now he is supposed to be ready to go today. Plus they have for 3 in bandbox Cincy, so their road hitting numbers (decent enough as reported here) should take another climb.
Having another good hitter in the middle should pick up everyone else too. Ross has been in a big skid lately, and Nate has done little since AS break. Huff we all know about. Man, if they get rolling SF is going to be really tough to beat.
I still want to see Vogs and what he does wherever he pitches on this trip.
unca_chuck said, on July 28, 2011 at 9:34 am

Timmy’s going tonight, right? That would put Vogie tomorrow in Cincy.
ewisco said, on July 28, 2011 at 9:48 am

winning another close one tonight could really mess with their heads come october. win the first in a laugher and then, oops, they took 2 of 3 at our place. We had more runs in the first game than they did for the series and they still won the series? how the hell do you beat these guys?
twinfan1 said, on July 28, 2011 at 9:58 am

I don’t know anybody who didn’t want Beltrtan, so desist with that nonsense, Dennis,The question was always the price- do we know the price? There had been reports it was Wheeler and two more. If, as appears, it’s just Wheeler, I’m fine with it -with the big “if”: As one of the smarter writers ( Purdy), pointed out, this all about a few key at bats in the postseason. This is not about Sabes givin’ it a try- it’s about repeating and Beltran was acquired for only that. If the NLCS ends with Carlos watching strike 3 as Howard did- the deal is an utter failure…
My call? As I’ve made clear, they were already going to the post season, and with their pitching, had as good a chance as anybody even without Beltran. So obviously he helps- picking how far they go is dependent on the match ups for the postseason- it is far from a given that we draw Atlanta – AZ is in the WC chase, so we could get the Central winner. I’ll make my postseason choices when the matchups are set.
- Del Mar Dennis said, on July 28, 2011 at 10:09 am
  
  You don’t know anybody who didn’t want Beltran? Ha! That’s rich. I’ll start naming the names here if you wish…And now you have ARZ in the WC race? That’s even richer. Just a short minute ago you had the Snakes finishing behind the Rox and battling with the Bums and Friars for the cellar. And I get called a flip-flop? Who’s wearing the beach sandals now?
  - twinfan1 said, on July 28, 2011 at 10:17 am
    
    They’re 3 1/2 out of the WC- didn’t say they’d win it, just that it can’t can’t be given to Atlanta, especially with McCann out. Even the Central second place finisher is now in it. Maybe you need to take some of that Cialis you spammed us with- help you stick it to your trannie pal. As injuries and circumstances change, smart observers adjust. Or maybe your call on the Giants was the same with or without the injuries. What a moron you are.
  - twinfan1 said, on July 28, 2011 at 10:21 am
    
    Dennis, I had sent you something but the detox center returned it. Are you no longer there?
  - Del Mar Dennis said, on July 28, 2011 at 10:32 am
    
    Your just loaded with goodies this morning. Detox and Cialis references. Christmas in July with TF. Hey, you ever watch that on the shopping channel? You can find some good stuff for Christmas in July. Maybe you should give it a try. You could buy yourself some new comebacks and jokes.
twinfan1 said, on July 28, 2011 at 10:08 am

On another topic, the so-called “worst call” in the Pittsburgh-Atlanta game, it was the absoute dumbest fucking tag in baseball history .They have the guy by ten feet and the catcher does an ole swipe tag.? It’s easy to see how the umpire missed it.
And umpires apologizing for honest mistakes is bullshit. “I missed it, move on, Clint”…is the proper response.
“Oh, and tell your catcher he’s an idiot…”
TedSpe said, on July 28, 2011 at 10:33 am

Nice preamble here, Flav. My only slight rebuttal is until further notice Sandoval is still THE GUY in this lineup.

And Dennis, yes please start naming names. I’m not trying to be a smartass but I don’t recall anyone saying the Giants *shouldn’t* get Carlos Beltran. I just remember folks saying don’t fuck it up if you do.
- twinfan1 said, on July 28, 2011 at 10:45 am
  
  I thought Cuddyer would be the better upgrade-but as I also noted, Minnesota was not clearly a seller yet. The only post I recall with a definite “no” was Snarkkles, who wanted Bourn instead…and then there were those who weren’t against Beltran but thought Festus Sabean couldn’t pull it off. That he apparently got this done for just one prospect was a coup…Maybe someone already saw this-but Belt is NOT goig down. Comcast totally blew it on Belt and Burrell.
stixwiz said, on July 28, 2011 at 10:34 am

From suspect to respect. A good many baseball people looked at that 2010 World Championship as a one and out or even a flash in the pan. Some of those same folks were looking at this years Giants and chortling a bit to themselves over such an offensively challenged outfit hanging on to first place this long. With the addition of Beltran that all changes.

The road to World Series victory goes through San Francisco now. That goes for the beasts of the A.L. East as well as the other N.L. contenders. Nobody has a match for the SF pitching staff up and down the line. Philly has a roughly equivalent rotation. But they will need to add at least two quality performers to their bullpen. Atlanta has a sparkler or two in either category but not the depth of excellence. Baaahstin and Noo Yawwk? Fugittaboudit. Peripatetic carnivals have better pitchmen than they do.

As several of us have pointed out and as Flav made most clear in his excellent opener; Beltran transforms this entire lineup. Whether its an amped-up Torres, a seatmate Panda, a finally getting some respect Nate, or a finally able to get the weight off his shoulders Huff; Giants hitters are ready to go have some fun. May the fun commence against Kyle Kendrick tonight in Philadelphia; go sockko at the Great American Bandbox over the weekend and play ‘Stomp the Snakes’ back at the Bay next week.
snarkk said, on July 28, 2011 at 10:41 am

Wheeler for Beltran works great on paper. As long as Beltran at 34 stays healthy in the cool ATT air and the Giants at least get to the NLCS. Nobody knows whither Wheeler in 2-3 years, so the final 20-20 review has to wait a while. Meanwhile, I’ll give Sabes credit for getting at least one bat that should make the rest of the wet noodles a little stiffer, and move towards 4 rpg. I still think they really need one more bats. They have 1 1/2 now with Beltran and Keppinger. If Franchez actually, somehow comes back in September and can play, that would be a huge deal. Getting another stick during the waiver period ala Cody is unlikely. Arizona is for real, even if they don’t upgrade before the deadline. Even with Beltran, SF is no shoo in to win the division…
- twinfan1 said, on July 28, 2011 at 10:55 am
  
  I thought LA was making their move. Before that it was Colorado. And didn’t you say they could be battling San Diego come September ? It’s Sophhles!
- snarkk said, on July 28, 2011 at 11:04 am
  
  I said none of those things. As usual, OracHole making shit up.
  I had SF winning the division with 96Ws, with Rockies second.
  I’m not ignoring Dback reality, neither is Sabes…
DJLoo said, on July 28, 2011 at 10:42 am

How necessary is it to upgrade catcher and shortstop?
DJLoo said, on July 28, 2011 at 10:46 am

ESPN had a nice replay of Cain barking at Eli after immediately after their mishap…
Kevin said, on July 28, 2011 at 10:49 am

The Giants home page has Timmy as the starter today
twinfan1 said, on July 28, 2011 at 10:50 am

It should be noted that Panda batting 4th is going to help Beltran as much as vice-versa.
- snarkk said, on July 28, 2011 at 11:07 am
  
  Total speculative crap. If there’s nobody on ahead, Beltran may bet pitched around so that Panda can get his usual ration of garbage to swing at…
  - twinfan1 said, on July 28, 2011 at 11:15 am
    
    Trashing Sandoval is typical Snarkkles nonsense. Anyway, you wanted Bourn, It’s speculation however you cut it, on what impact Beltran will have.
  - snarkk said, on July 28, 2011 at 11:26 am
    
    Not trashing him at all. Fact is Panda gets garbage to hit, but he’s hitting it this year. He’s not suddenly going to get fat fastballs and up his average by 30 points just because Beltran is in front of him. As for trashing players, I’ll leave that to you and Timmy, who by at least one account I’ve seen out there, appeared to be getting sick as early as during the White House visit. Bochy on the pre-game last night said Lincecum had been throwing up a lot. Unless you want to call Bochy a liar, I’d say Lincecum was actually sick…
  - twinfan1 said, on July 28, 2011 at 11:31 am
    
    Timmy was covered on the ASG episode as well. As Chuckles noted, he later sheepishly fessed up, saying Cain would keep a tighter leash on him this time..
    Of course Beltran will get better pitches with a good hitter behind him.Has always been thus, always will, Snarkkles.
  - snarkk said, on July 28, 2011 at 11:42 am
    
    I did not see whatever episode that was. I suppose that was filmed sometime before this weeks “white house” flu. If so, then since you’re not going to call Bochy a liar, you’ve just retracted your allegations…
Del Mar Dennis said, on July 28, 2011 at 10:58 am

It also should be noted that Sabean just compared Belt to Ishi. Say it ain’t so.
- twinfan1 said, on July 28, 2011 at 11:05 am
  
  Didn’t hear it. I’m sure you’ve distorted what it was. Spit it out.
  - Del Mar Dennis said, on July 28, 2011 at 11:29 am
    
    “The good thing about Brandon is he can pick up a start for (Aubrey) Huff and caddy for him defensively, much like Ishikawa.” –Sabean
  - twinfan1 said, on July 28, 2011 at 11:33 am
    
    Accurate statement. We should hope Brandon is as valuable the rest of the way as Ishi was last year.
Rough Trade said, on July 28, 2011 at 11:00 am

Let’s not forget Neukom and Baer had to sign off on this. Maybe Sabean and Tidrow now think Wheeler isn’t as good as the hype. And fortunately for the G’s, no other contender was willing to give up one of their best pitching prospects. Miller or Teheran could have swung the deal to Atl.

Upgrading catcher/Ss is a greater challenge for Sabean.
- snarkk said, on July 28, 2011 at 11:32 am
  
  If Franchez can come back in September, they have a SS in Keppinger. He’s played there a lot, but not lately. He’d be an upgrade over Tejada defensively and offensively, and over Crawford offensively. Fontenot is a serviceable SS, but not his position. El Presidente’s moves lately behind the plate are more troubling. You can’t have that poor defense going on into a stretch drive, or a playoff series. Good luck to Sabes on getting a catcher, if he’s going to get one, better do it now.. It’ll be hard to get one after the deadline, with SF on top, somebody would probably block a waiver move on a catcher…
twinfan1 said, on July 28, 2011 at 11:08 am

“Maybe Sabean and Tidrow now think Wheeler isn’t as good as the hype.” That’s funny, RT. Similar to Alderson, ..
” Hey, boss, you now that can’t miss kid we drafted? He sucks…”
NoTalent said, on July 28, 2011 at 11:11 am

I still think they need a SS and C. The lineup during last year’s WS run did not have the Big Name but essentially had 7 20 HR-type guys + Freddy Sanchez. When Renteria replaced Sandoval, that did not change. Despite Beltran, we still have two big holes if Kepp stays at 2b.

Based on Sabean’s latest press conference any new additions would be of the dumpster-dive variety. Soto or Hanigan would be great but probably unrealistic. If we march into Cinci and sweep them, I could see them do a mini-white flag deal to dump Ramon Hernandez for a reliever (?Otero or Ramirez/Casilla). They have a hot-shot minor league catcher they could pair with Hanigan. Another name that was off the radar as of two days ago but could draw interest is Rafael Furcal. I would totally dig him. He’s way undervalued right now due to his injuries but in 2010 put up a 826 OPS and 4.3 UZR. He’s put up several multi-hit games in the last week and stole a couple bases. Naturally, I couldn’t imagine the Dodgers and Giants doing business, unless they’re desperate to just dump his remaining 4.5 million, rivalry-be-damned. I could also easily see him going to the D-backs or any of the 4 central teams desperate for a SS.
DJLoo said, on July 28, 2011 at 11:17 am

Catcher is probably the bigger priority. Between Miggy, Viggy and Keppiggy they have enough coverage there. Probably no worse off than 2010.
- snarkk said, on July 28, 2011 at 11:34 am
  
  Keppiggy?…
Bozo said, on July 28, 2011 at 11:25 am

The cash the Giants got back was basically Wheeler’s signing bonus. So the Giants retroactively traded their 2009 draft pick for a shot. It’s a done deal, the Giants are going for it. Fuck Wheeler, he can go suck on Alderson’s teat for awhile.
unca_chuck said, on July 28, 2011 at 11:26 am

There’s little in the catcher market, so I don’t think anything happens there. SS is a different story.
twinfan1 said, on July 28, 2011 at 11:26 am

I’m sure we’d all like the perfect team, So would the other 29 imperfect teams. So is the idea to give up the rest of the blue chippers for a SS and a catcher?
- Del Mar Dennis said, on July 28, 2011 at 11:37 am
  
  Not necessarily. I think a Ramon Hernandez (should he be available, which I think he is) could be had for something other than a “blue chipper.” A reliever and/or a mid-level prospect should do it. And let’s be honest. Whitey has looked even more embarrassing than his usual self lately. No bueno.
  - twinfan1 said, on July 28, 2011 at 11:49 am
    
    Cincinatti is squarely in the hunt. Why would they trade him?
    OK – let’s have you boys renew your vows, so to speak, I know which of you have only recently come around to my position that they’ll win their division, so don’t try any BS. I remain with the position I stated in March, April, May, June, and July- they will win the division easily. What’s your call? You can revise your original one but remember- I know what it was. Snarkkles- you first: what’s your revised call on how many teams should have them scared shitless?
TedSpe said, on July 28, 2011 at 11:32 am

Is it just me or is the Flap running a little funky today? Kind of slow.
(And no, I don’t mean the comments)
Orbofwisdom said, on July 28, 2011 at 11:49 am

so Seabiscuit and Beltran both in Philly tonight
woo hoo
Macdog said, on July 28, 2011 at 11:50 am

Only downside to the deal will be hearing Miller’s annoying pronunciation of “Bel-trrrrrrrrrrrran.”

Perhaps a big game tonight for Beltran? A couple recent Giant debuts in Philly:

2002: Kenny Lofton hits a leadoff HR in his first AB as a Giant, SF wins 10-3.

2009: Brad Penny pitches 8 scoreless innings, Giants win 4-0.

Taking a peek to this weekend, Reds are well on the way to getting swept 4 by the Mets, and their pitching and defense have looked absolutely dreadful.
snarkk said, on July 28, 2011 at 11:51 am

Last night’s win by Cain served notice on the Phills and the East Coast dolts that the Giants are to be reckoned with once again. Regardless of the outcome tonite, it was a boost to the squad, too, that they’re still the champs, and yeah, they can still play with anybody with their pitching. I wouldn’t be surprised if the Phills haul in another bat before the deadline, with Beltran now on board in SF. The Philly blogosphere is asking for a response in that direction…
- TedSpe said, on July 28, 2011 at 12:04 pm
  
  Yesterday’s win took some wind out of their sails. They had to be saying to themselves “But we *killed* them the night before. We showed thm the NLCS was a fluke. We showed we’re the better…oh yeah…Zito”
NoTalent said, on July 28, 2011 at 11:53 am

So I posted it earlier, but it turns out (according to Stark) the Giants have spoken to the Dodgers about Furcal. I seriously doubt there would be a blue-chipper involved here and, unlike the Central clubs, we may have more cash to spare. If the Dodgers are still in F U mode, I could picture them using the Gs to up the offer and then flip him to the Dbacks or a Central club. Furcal’s speed has the potential to change the lineup, especially when Torres doesn’t play.
- twinfan1 said, on July 28, 2011 at 12:05 pm
  
  I would hope there’s no blue chipper for a .195 hitter with chronic back problems. He’s worth at best the ole PBTNL or cash.
  - NoTalent said, on July 28, 2011 at 12:12 pm
    
    That’s exactly what I was thinking. One good thing about the Beltran trade is that it takes the pressure off to make another big move. The Giants can make incremental upgrades in measured fashion rather than out of desperation. As is, the team is good enough. If the Dodgers want too much, screw them. If the 4 million that the Giants were willing to part with for Beltran instead goes for Furcal without anything more than a B/C prospect, I would do it.
  - Del Mar Dennis said, on July 28, 2011 at 12:35 pm
    
    Furcal isn’t worth horseshit let alone a PTBNL or cash and you know it. Picking up Furcal would be as bad a move as p/u Beltran was good one. Sabean makes that trade and I’ll be demanding he be fired.
snarkk said, on July 28, 2011 at 12:00 pm

Stark is one of the few national media dudes that always give the Giants a fair shake and the respect they deserve. He positively gushed on the radio last night about them getting Beltran…
- twinfan1 said, on July 28, 2011 at 12:12 pm
  
  Yesterday:
  “I would not get Beltran, I’ve said it before..”
  You barely have had time to flip, let alone flop…
  - snarkk said, on July 28, 2011 at 1:00 pm
    
    I would not have gotten him. I think he’s an injury risk. I would have traded for Bourn, but you liked that idea so much you misspelled his name in sneering at it.
    Anyway, now that Beltran is “gotten” and Wheeler was the only part given up, most of you have gotten your wish. It’s a fair trade. Value for potential value.
    No flip, no flop. Are the Giants better now? Yes…
twinfan1 said, on July 28, 2011 at 12:30 pm

It’s too fucking hot, maybe check in later. ( big whoop, eh?)
Kevin said, on July 28, 2011 at 12:51 pm

I swear the ones that all calling for a catcher are idiots, the Giants have the BEST hitting catcher in the league. Unfortunately he is on the DL. I don’t see the pitchers complaining about either of the two the giants have. they pick up Beltran and you guys still want more. Aint gonna happen. The injury bug bit the Giants bad in the offense. I thank my lucky stars that the injury bug did nto get to their pitching staff. IMHO they do not “need” anyone else. Snarkk said it right, Last night served the MLB NL teams that the WS still goes through the Giants pitching staff.
Kevin said, on July 28, 2011 at 12:52 pm

the road to the WS goes through the Giants pitching staff.
- TedSpe said, on July 28, 2011 at 1:04 pm
  
  Still
Giant Head said, on July 28, 2011 at 12:52 pm

So we DFA’d Hall, but whose spot is Beltran taking on the 25-man? Burriss would seem to be the only viable option…
Nipper said, on July 28, 2011 at 12:56 pm

Catch the Fever!
Del Mar Dennis said, on July 28, 2011 at 1:01 pm

Welcome to the SF Giants lineup Carlos Beltran. Don’t take it personally when I continue to bash it mercilessly…

Torres CF, Keppinger 2B, Beltran RF, Sandoval 3B, Huff 1B, Schierholtz RF, Crawford SS, Stewart C, Lincecum P
- TedSpe said, on July 28, 2011 at 1:06 pm
  
  Carlos from the Giants, meet Dennis from the Flap. Uh huh. Uh huh.
  Oooookay. The honeymoon’s over
- James said, on July 28, 2011 at 1:09 pm
  
  It looks like Nate may *still* not get his first innings in LF.
- TedSpe said, on July 28, 2011 at 1:11 pm
  
  hahaha. I just noticed
- twinfan1 said, on July 28, 2011 at 1:20 pm
  
  As with last year, the more the Doomer hates it, the more likely the win.
- Del Mar Dennis said, on July 28, 2011 at 1:20 pm
  
  sorry, I just noticed that. I’d assume Nate is in LF. I have rotoinfo to thank. And fuck them for posting that Willingham was traded to the Braves the other day. Unprofessional pricks.
snarkk said, on July 28, 2011 at 1:08 pm

In Schulman’s Splash this morning, I really liked what I heard from Sabean about trading Wheeler: “Once we decided we weren’t going to part with position players, we decided to go down this path.” What I’ve been saying all along — the position players are what need to be groomed and moved up, since productive position player FAs have proved they don’t want to come to ATT, even if overpaid. FA pitchers WILL come to ATT. And, BTW, Sabes further said Beltran did not demand to play in RF as a condition to the trade…
- twinfan1 said, on July 28, 2011 at 1:16 pm
  
  Other reports say it was in his no trade language. It would hardly be surprising for Sabean to cover him on that. What’s surprising is how Snarkk turns into gullible management apologist when it suits his needs.
  “since productive position player FAs have proved they don’t want to come to ATT”
  Uh, what’s Beltran? Fact is, coming to a World Championship team is attractive to all players.
  - snarkk said, on July 28, 2011 at 1:32 pm
    
    So, what “other reports” contradict Sabes own words?
    And Beltran is not a FA, he’s under contract, and is a rental smartly looking for a ring. Very unlikely he’ll sign here as a FA. There’s no need to rehash the multitude of reporting the past years about FA hitters dissing Sabean, even with overpaid offers. He’s seeing the light in developing more position players, and more balance in his drafting. The Giants aren’t going to be perennial champs. He’s looking for the long haul, and applying smarter drafting strategies to fit the ballpark’s realities…
Giant Head said, on July 28, 2011 at 1:32 pm

Uhhh, lookie here Flav…two saves already in the Flap today. Passing you up and tying Chuck for the saves lead! 8 runs scored already, two SBs, gained a 1.5 so far today and now at 92 points…Fear the Head!!!
Giant Head said, on July 28, 2011 at 1:39 pm

My thinking, which always Twin loves, to be happy with this deal, is that other mid-range pitchers in the league look at what Vogelsong has done and would be happy to be a #4 or #5 at ATT. So even though I was worried about arms for the future, I trust in Sabes now to be able to pick up a starter or two if needed by 2013 that would be quality and reasonably priced.

And I dont care if keep Beltran or not, I am back in the camp of no big contracts for position player free agents…fuck them all…
twinfan1 said, on July 28, 2011 at 1:57 pm

Before this year the Giants would not have been on Beltran’s list.Pretending that the WS win has not changed how FAs will view coming here is the usual Snarkkles nonsense.,,,
EVERY report on Beltran’s demands said he wanted RF. He moved there because of his knees and has publicly stated that’s where he wants to play. You can find dozens of quotes from him in just a cursory search. Roberts also reported that the “big dog” wanted RF.Even beyond that- there’s no fucking way they’d play him there if he DIDN’T insist on it. Yeah, they’d move the best defensive RFer in the league to a position he’s never played and put Beltran and his bad knees in the toughest RF in the league. Sure they would..
- snarkk said, on July 28, 2011 at 2:10 pm
  
  Call Sabes a liar — up to you.
  Beltran is coming to SF for three months tops, if they get to the WS. He’s out for a ring, no mystery in that.
  We’ll see offseason how attractive the team is over the realities of ATT to a top level hitter when Beltran signs/does not sign as a FA in the offseason. Using a rental player situation to prove ATT is now a destination of choice for top hitting FAs is ludicrous….
Giant Head said, on July 28, 2011 at 2:03 pm

Twin, dont you expect by playoffs, home games, we will see Nate in right and Beltran in left?
Giant Head said, on July 28, 2011 at 2:05 pm

Ahhhh Flav, make that three saves today (thanks for trading me Axford in April) and we still have just the day games in progress…new leader in the Saves category gentlemen, see you Chuck! On to the next category to conquer…”Fear the Head!”
Flavor said, on July 28, 2011 at 2:13 pm

I don’t fear the head. I’m focused on the single team that is above me. Axford worked out ok for you this year. I built my saves almost entirely off the ww (except for Kimbrel). I’m still working on finding wins under whatever rock I can kick over……
- gianthead said, on July 28, 2011 at 2:17 pm
  
  SBs and WHIP will be my path to a championship….
Big flavor said, on July 28, 2011 at 2:26 pm

If that’s what you call 5th place, by all means, the championship is yours for the taking :}
snarkk said, on July 28, 2011 at 2:28 pm

Ibanez has some interesting stats. Pretty lousy OBP at .290, yet BA warming recently, and has SLG at a solid .423 and producing with 14 HRs and 54 RBIs. Guy is as old as dirt (39), the bandbox has to help. Last year the Philly fans wanted him gone from the post season. If SF faces Phills in the post season, gotta hope he’s worn down again after a long season…
- TedSpe said, on July 28, 2011 at 3:32 pm
  
  You know, I own an Ibanez guitar. I’ve had it since my late ’30’s. And I always pronounced it Eye-buh-nez. Does anyone know if that’s right or should it be pronounced like the ballpalyer Eee-bon-yez?
  - James said, on July 28, 2011 at 6:14 pm
    
    I’ve had my ES-175 “lawsuit” copy for 30 years. What about ih-buh-nez?
blade3colorado said, on July 28, 2011 at 2:31 pm

GH, you’re so full of shit . . . another fine cheddar connoisseur until further notice.
twinfan1 said, on July 28, 2011 at 3:28 pm

I like the way it’s been set up so whoever hits well the rest of the way, it’s because of Beltran.
twinfan1 said, on July 28, 2011 at 3:33 pm

AZ loses- sure someone mentioned it- SS is Cody Ransom..
snarkk said, on July 28, 2011 at 3:56 pm

Bochy gave Beltran his #15.
No Rolex required. Class move…
- Del Mar Dennis said, on July 28, 2011 at 4:08 pm
  
  “Bonehead” is no dummy. He knows how to placate his players. He could give a rat’s ass about his #15. His new number? 16. He said he just took the next number up. People want to give Nate the MVP (including myself) but the *real* MVP hasn’t changed since last year — Bruce Bochy.
Big flavor said, on July 28, 2011 at 4:11 pm

Super classy interview on bochy show. And kruk called it: this is Kevin Mitchell re-incarnated in terms of what he’s gonna mean to this offense.
blade3colorado said, on July 28, 2011 at 4:11 pm

Troubled former Yankee pitcher, Hideki Irabu, who probably paved the way for other Japanese stars in MLB, committed suicide today . . . sad.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ap-hidekiirabu
- TedSpe said, on July 28, 2011 at 4:23 pm
  
  Sad indeed
Del Mar Dennis said, on July 28, 2011 at 4:12 pm

Beltran’s a bust. Goddamn Sabean and his shitty trades…
snarkk said, on July 28, 2011 at 4:22 pm

Schulman’s Splash this afternoon is actually amusing.
Apparently, the Giants are not willing to confirm Zito starting his normal rotation on Sunday.
Schulman give’s some possible alternatives to why that is, some of which would be Flapropriate…
DJLoo said, on July 28, 2011 at 4:27 pm

MacDog: Not exactly recent, but none other than Willie Mays made his ML debut in Philadelphia. And indcredibly (to me), McCovey, Marichal, and Lincecum all made their ML debuts vs. Philadelphia, but those games were in San Francisco.
- TedSpe said, on July 28, 2011 at 4:32 pm
  
  Where do you get this stuff??!!
- snarkk said, on July 28, 2011 at 4:35 pm
  
  Adding to the incredulity:
  Doug Mirabelli debuted as a major leaguer as the Giants played the Phils in August 23, 1996….
Del Mar Dennis said, on July 28, 2011 at 4:30 pm

I guess I missed it, but who did we move, drop or DL to make room for Carlos on the 25-man?
- snarkk said, on July 28, 2011 at 4:35 pm
  
  Manny Burriss back to Fresno….
Big flavor said, on July 28, 2011 at 4:43 pm

So is bill hall still on the team? I heard he was activated and waived.
- snarkk said, on July 28, 2011 at 4:45 pm
  
  That happened, too, today. He’s cleared off the 40 man…
- Del Mar Dennis said, on July 28, 2011 at 4:49 pm
  
  Correct. Hey, I have a fantasy question for ya. The guy I’m playing this week in my ESPN league has nothing but closers (all 9) for his starting Ps. Is that an accepted strategy? If so, a good one? Or is he just being a prick and needs to hear what Doomin’ Denny has to say about that?
Big flavor said, on July 28, 2011 at 4:49 pm

Beltran better get used to batting with the bases lonley.
- twinfan1 said, on July 28, 2011 at 4:56 pm
  
  If you believe that,, it was a wasted deal.
  Or is it this you believe:
  “And kruk called it: this is Kevin Mitchell re-incarnated in terms of what he’s gonna mean to this offense.”
Big flavor said, on July 28, 2011 at 4:50 pm

Lonely. Shitty phone keyboard…
Big flavor said, on July 28, 2011 at 4:53 pm

Depends on what he needs. Maybe he punted on wins. Or maybe he’s dominating on wins and k’s and he’s gonna work on his era/whip/k’s the rest of the way. Take a look at his stats
- Del Mar Dennis said, on July 28, 2011 at 5:09 pm
  
  It’s a week-to-week heads up matchup league. Person with most wins in the 10 categories wins the week.
snarkk said, on July 28, 2011 at 4:57 pm

I don’t know the stats on this, can’t find ’em with a quick search.
But, do the Giants pitchers give up an abnormally high number of hits to the opposing pitchers, or does it just seem that way?…
Big flavor said, on July 28, 2011 at 5:01 pm

laser throw by Nate. Dumb fuck fuck up by crawdaddy. As I said last night, I ain’t too worried about Nate in left field.
- twinfan1 said, on July 28, 2011 at 5:04 pm
  
  Don’t think anybody is, he’s the best in RF, though.Maybe he’ll be the best in LF, too.
twinfan1 said, on July 28, 2011 at 5:01 pm

Can’t find it restricted to the pitcher but the #9 position is hitting .163 against them.
- snarkk said, on July 28, 2011 at 5:06 pm
  
  OK, thanks for the effort. That doesn’t seem crazy high, especially including non-hurler batters in that spot…
xootsuit said, on July 28, 2011 at 5:03 pm

Beltran’s looking a bit jet lagged tonight.
- twinfan1 said, on July 28, 2011 at 5:05 pm
  
  Dehydrated, pale ? 😉
- TedSpe said, on July 28, 2011 at 5:07 pm
  
  peak-ed, fragile
- DJLoo said, on July 28, 2011 at 5:08 pm
  
  Mays was train-lagged in ’51…
- Del Mar Dennis said, on July 28, 2011 at 5:13 pm
  
  Hey, counselor. Is that a pic of the WS Ring? Whose left hand is that?
  - xootsuit said, on July 28, 2011 at 5:17 pm
    
    That’s my older son’s hand.
- Rough Trade said, on July 28, 2011 at 5:16 pm
  
  Jet lagged going from Cinn to Philly?
  - xootsuit said, on July 28, 2011 at 5:21 pm
    
    Well, you do have a point. However, I read somewhere that he treated his friends on the Mets to a big goodby steak dinner in Cincy and then flew back to NY, before heading to Philadelphia. So, . . . .
TedSpe said, on July 28, 2011 at 5:06 pm

Say, how is it they have a fitted uniform, cap and batting helmet ready so quickly for a mid-season hire?
- snarkk said, on July 28, 2011 at 5:11 pm
  
  After 50+ years, Murph has it all covered….
snarkk said, on July 28, 2011 at 5:10 pm

Nate, friggin Mr. Clutch!….
stixwiz said, on July 28, 2011 at 5:18 pm

After getting swept at home in four to the Mutts, perhaps Cincinnati is ready to talk turkey regarding just one of their three viable catchers. Maybe a combination of AA strikeout machine Ryan Verdugo and Conor Gillaspie would interest them. Reds currently are 50-55 and are starting to fade in the Central. They desperately need starter prospects. Verdugo is currently probably #3 or #4 amongst Giants starter prospects.