Posey isn’t Getting Enough Innings Behind the Plate….
I just read that Posey has totaled exactly 27 innings behind the plate this spring. Flavor Nation, listen up: this is not good. I worried about this in my March 7th thread:
https://oneflapdown77.com/2012/03/07/posey-needs-to-start-catching-soon/
It still blows my mind that no one is worried about Posey’s current lack of *catcher conditioning*. And I mean NOBODY. I haven’t heard a coach wonder about, Posey wonder about it, talk show chumps wonder about it….nobody.
Except me……
From that, you might draw the conclusion that Big Flavor is a gynormous-worry-wart-pussy. And you might be right about that. I’m not saying you ARE right about that, just that, you know, the possibility exists that I’m overreacting to Buster’s lack of conditioning behind the dish this spring……
But all signs, at least to me, are pointing to us starting a catcher on opening day who doesn’t have *catcher legs* under him. And if that’s the case, at BEST he will be underwhelming with his bat and his defense for at least a month or so to start the 2012 season. At worst? See: Mauer, Joe>>>>Bi-lateral leg weakness>>>>>DL>>>>>lost season.
Here are Mauer’s career spring training numbers (just look at the innings):
And I’m going to re-post what the Twins trainer said AFTER Mauer went down last year 2 weeks into the season with bi-lateral leg weakness:
“He, I don’t think. has had the repetitions for catching or anything else,” McWane said. “Once the season started, he started to wear down. He wasn’t strong enough to handle the everyday catching…..”
Buster Posey 2012 spring training catching innings: 27, as of today.
And Mauer, who went down 2 weeks into the season, at least played the entire 2011 at catcher. Posey hasn’t played catcher in a major league baseball game since May, 2011.
The good word coming out of Bochy is that we will see Buster playing a decent amount of first base. Keep *easing* him back into the job. That might save him and allow him to get his *catcher legs* under him as the season starts and progresses. We’ll see. But I think the prospect of 3 automatic outs at the end of the line up (Crawford, Whiteside, Pitcher) will deter Bochy from playing Posey at first base a often as he is planning on doing so. Again, we will see…….
Buster Posey has caught 27 innings in the last 10 months. Starting catchers need to be able to get in the squat and catch around 250-260 innings A MONTH during the season. Does anyone seriously think that he’s ready to carry that type of load?
A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball 
Ohio State just won and put me back in the high 80s (88.8%) in my bracket. Not certain but I think Dennis had them going all the way . . . Me? I like Kentucky.
Good points Flav regarding Posey. I see him playing 3 games a week to start off (April and May). After that, who knows? A 1st string catcher normally catches 5 days a week, with Sunday off and their off day (usually Monday or Thursday).
Well, Flav, I wouldn’t go so far as calling you a gynormous-worry-wart-pussy. Mainly because I kind of cringe a little using the words wart and pussy in the same sentence. But that’s neither here nor there.
I *do* think you may be making a mountain out of a molehill. And this may be due to my oft proven lack of knowledge. But as important as catching in spring training games is, a lot of the “conditioning” is done in intense practice. What Posey is doing *in between* ST games is just as, if not more so, important. Simulation of game conditions with enough reps might be enough conditioning. Particularly for a young athlete. Of course Bochy wouldn’t say anything negative one way or another. And hell, I might just be blowing smoke. But I feel okay with the progress
Good points Ted (regarding his conditioning between games).
By the by Ted, you are an admirer of mass media, e.g., movies, television, music, etc., so did you catch the Fiat Abarth commercial that Charley Sheen did while March Madness was on an hour or so ago? Hilarious.
No blade I did not. But anything lately with that maniac Charlie Sheen is generally pretty fucking hilarious.
WINNING
Count me as one not worried..if they are being extra cautious, good for them..
And you *do* worry waaaay too much..
I say this in the kindest way, I hope you take that way..
I know I worry, it’s easier to do so.
I’m not sure what you guys think Posey’s doing *in between games* for his *in-game* conditioning as a catcher. Playing catcher means you have to sit in a squat on and off for 2 to 2.5 hours or so. You have to squat down, sit there for sometimes several seconds, and then pop back up. You probably do this 180-200 times a game. I’m not sure there is any *in between game workouts* that prepare you for that………
That’s my point. We don’t know whether or not Posey squats down, sits there for sometimes several seconds, and then pop back up. What if he does that 180-200 times in practice between games? We don’t know. Sure, I’m exaggerating a touch but still if he’s prepping properly between games he’ll *be* in “catcher” condition no matter how many innings he plays in ST. At least that’s my thought and I’m sticking to it
Posey regularly catches Pen sessions. That requires squatting, getting up/down, and throwing back to the pitcher. I would worry some, but not heavily. I figure he’s good for 100 games at C, tops. That’s why it is insane not to get Hector up to the big club from the beginning, to avoid the 7-9 auto out scenario. That said, I’d be shocked if he doesn’t start in Fresno, given Bochy and Sabes vetluv. But, I don’t think he’ll stay there too long. The kid is just hitting too well, and Stewie won’t hit at all. Hector should be up by June….
I’ve thought all along P will be fine. Remember there are extra days off at start of season, so it will allow him to rest and condition. Plus he probably gets a day at 1b vs. a tough lefty or getawat day, so I think they ease him into it, but he catches 4-5 games a week minimum. He seems fine…relax bro. Baggs last two posts involved Hector, who he thinks might be forcing himself in there, and Burriss, who he says starts at 2b.
So, if H is in and they go with 3 catchers, then one of dynamic duo is toast to start, and if H shows he can handle himself behind the plate, hopefully he sticks and soon the other one gets to tour central valley this summer. H catches a game or two a week, maybe one specific starter, P gets the rest. I don’t like him at 1b, but baggs said he handled it OK.
Burriss is the best of a bad lot–and whoever else sticks would be the back up for crawford, or would play 2b if they stuck burriss at SS when crawford needed a rest.
Nothing wrong with keeping Pill, but I just don’t see this guy as more than a spot starter once a week tops. He is not running Huff off, unless Huff sucks as bad as last year. Belt continues to rake, and there have to be better OFs than Pill–he just doesn’t have anywhere to play regularly.
I don’t think there ever was a plan for Pill to play regularly- but I think dumping one of the ragin’ Cajuns is for the purpose of keeping him . He IS taking grounders at third now, BTW… One other note, though. Lest folks have forgotten, Hector is a switch hitter, so that would take of the paranoia over not having not that RH bat “off the bench”- they have my permission to send Pill down if it means keeping Hector..
If I were to choose one issue to worry about, it would be the extremely thin starting pitching and on going arm probs with Wilson. They’re going to hit enough to support last year’s staff or 2010’s. But the 4/5 comes from the Croucher, a guy opening on the DL, and maybe Surkamp- that’s not comforting. Bochy will do his usual masterful job with the pen- but this year there’s legit worry that it may get overworked..
Mota might pitch 150 innings in relief.
I think Mike Marshall holds that record…….not positive.
Loo. You’re not positive?
Please.
No one here would ever doubt you.
It’s telling that they’ll have two long relievers..
Elaborate, sir?
They may need 2..
Okay. Thanks. But who?
Brett Pill got the majority of the starts at first base down the stretch last year, and he did anything but disappoint, collecting seven extra base hits – three doubles, two triples and two homers – in 50 at-bats to show that his breakthrough at Triple-A Fresno wasn’t necessarily a mirage. The offensively challenged Giants will have a hard time overlooking those numbers even if they’re not coming from someone who they projected for a full-time role. Given his less-than-stellar pedigree, yeah, I get it that he is a long shot. However, I like the fact that he doesn’t back down, e.g., he came in for Huff on Friday and swatted one out of the park (3rd in ST). In short, I like the fact that Bochy has options in left field and 1st base with Brett.
well, end of the season stats are kind of like garbage time in basketball. Nice enough to make things interesting, but not the same as putting up numbers in crunch time vs. frontliners when games are being decided..Pill is an “option”, sure, but he has guys in front of him that are going to get most of the PT, like Belt Posey Huff at 1b, plus maybe even Blanco in LF. And if he gets off to slow start, he might not get much time to work out of it. Just imo, tho.
I have a few different web pages open at the moment. Never mind what they are.
The tab at the top of this one reads “Posey isn’t Getting Enough”.
Anyone relate?
Depends on what he “isn’t getting enough” of?
blade, blade, blade. Must you remind us once again of your conquest of New Spain? I’m jealous enough already
hahaha Ted. Actually, I am under the weather and feel like shit (flu and lost my voice . . . Bronchitis???). Consequently, a latin nurse would do wonders for my disposition right now.
(rimshot)
Sorry to kind of cross the line here but I just read Dick Cheney had a heart transplant.
twin? That sounds like a Room B subject
I had no idea he actually had a heart to begin with. Silly me.
Me either. Perhaps a few years too late
Nobody plays “Hearts” anymore………and forget about about Pinochle.
Canasta?
fun game, tho is 4 man partners P…learned from gramps and dad, used to play after sunday dinners…like most things, I usually learned the hard way if at all.
Zab Judah fighting in your backyard tonight. Don’t tell me the results. Not sure if it’s live on my end.
Another reason not to worry about Posey . . . “He feels great,” manager Bruce Bochy told the San Jose Mercury News. “He’s coming out of these games with no issues. That’s good news for us. He’s getting more and more comfortable in all facets of the game.”
In Bruce I trust 🙂
In Bruce I take with a grain of salt.
He never shows his hand.
Actually, that’s one of the things I like about him. As frustrating as it can be
I figure we will hear about the pain and stiffness next yr.
Call me sentimental, but I’m going with Pill over Hector or Theriot. The kid has paid his dues and this might be his last real shot. And he’s earned a look. Hector will be back soon and hopefully a finished product behind the plate.
What’s neat about this year is that Huff wont get a pass like last year. Consequently, he either plays better (as Twin pointed out) or he’ll be pulling pine splinters out of his ass.
I wonder how much patience over all bochy is going to have for guys that struggle at the bat. With all the options he does have at 1b and the OF, I don’t think anyone that struggles as say Huff did last year is going to get to stay in there. Last year has to be too fresh in his mind. A guy like Pagan, if he were doing in april what he’s doing now, isn’t going to be a regular anymore I don’t think, which would leave the door open for the blancos and pills and hectors to force their way into the equation.
I agree with ST about Pill.. I suspect he’s a AAAA guy, but he’s perserverd and he’s shown plenty enough to warrant getting a real shot. What does it show as an organization if a guy like that gets no chance after doing everything asked ? I used to be for just sending him back down but, as I said- you have to give a guy like him a chance if the roster numbers work. In my revised opinion.
It does help if he can play a little 3rd or 2nd. 🙂
Guys with a track record are usually going to be given more rope. Bochy alluded to that the other day talking about Nate, saying he really hasn’t established himself.
Exactly willieD. Despite owning one of the worst offenses in the majors, the Giants’ defense of their 2010 World Series title went smoothly well into the second half of the season last year. They led the National League West as late as August 9, but then they lost 17 out of their next 28 games. A strong September finish was not enough to get the Giants back to the postseason. Why?
In my mind, it was partially because he gave certain players (such as Huff) the benefit of the doubt and allowed them to keep going out there. As you and I pointed out – that wont happen this year in regard to position players. I think it was Loo who said something to the effect, “we are very weak up the middle.” On paper, that is unequivocal – Crawford is untested, Glass is out, and his replacements have never been anything but scrub utility players during their careers. OH OH!
However, with all that being said, we are the cream of the division for 3 very good reasons: 1. Our outfield is upgraded; 2. We have Posey and Sandoval – almost like have two new players, since they were injured much of last year; and, 3. Botchy will pull a position player much quicker if he isn’t performing and plug in someone else.
Obviously, there are other reasons we will win (our pitching and bullpen . . . DUH!). I’m just saying that Botchy is well past the 2010 World Series Championship “basking” glow and no one gets a pass for what they did before . . . It’s going to be “What have you done for me lately?”
Don’t forget, Blade……”Up the middle” includes catcher & CF. If Posey’s really limited and Pagan disappoints we’re in a world of shit.
True and I left them out because I believe they are “upgrades” . . . I will take a “half” of Posey over Whitey any day of the week. I love Torres, but I have to believe that Pagan will outperform him (I have been high on him since the trade, so not backing down there, albeit, I might have to eat my words later in the season).
Generally, being good “up the middle” has nothing to do with offense. Pagan is not an uprade defensively.
The regulars who would have the shortest leashes, IMO, are (#1 most likely to have short leash ):
1. Burriss
2. Huff/ Nate
3. Pagan
4. Crawford
5. Belt
I don’t count the Bruise Bros (Eli and Stew)
I’d go along with that list except I might sub 5 for 3. If Belt is struggling they could send him down for more triple A home cookin’.
I think Pagan is going to get a loooooong leash for 2 reasons: 1) they wouldn’t want to piss him off by benching him because they know he’s a delicate temperament and 2) they aren’t going to give up on the Vungo trade that early, especially if Vungo is raking this year.
But by middle of June, if Pagan isn’t bringing it, I could see them shelving him somewhere…..
Me? I think he’s going to have a very good year………
Were on the same page with regard to Pagan Flav. The phone park fits him perfectly.
To be clear, I am not hating on Pill. I lumped him into those *5 guys who can’t hit* thread the other day and I regret that. I’m open to the idea of him playing 3rd, 2nd and 1st. I don’t have a lot of faith that he can do it consistently, or that he can hit at this level, but I definitely am not closing the door on him contributing this year……..
I’ll bet Lincecum hits one out before Burriss…
I’d bet you’d hit one out before Burriss….
I’ll guess Manny equals his Fresno total from last year-2. Good one on Timmy, though.
.Vungo, BTW, has been out five days with a left calf strain and is “touch and go” for opening day…
Dirrty had a better outing tonight – 5.1 IP 6 H 3 R 2 ER 3 BB 6 K…
Projected Rotation: Jonathan Sanchez, Bruce Chen, Luke Hochevar, Felipe Paulino, Danny Duffy. That’s right, he could be the 1. That’s not a real group, to put in mildly.
and go take a gander at that bullpen. If you think Dirrrty’s regular 5.1 is gonna get him to a win with that bullpen bridging the gap, re-think it. In fact, you wanted a bet on wins as far as it comes to Dirrrrrty. I will say Hochevar has more wins this year than Dirrrrrrty. Bet on?
The projeted rotation is not my invention, one site has your boy with Dirty the 2
http://tinyurl.com/7lhzo6d
This has Dirty 1
http://tinyurl.com/6o37w6s
The Kansas Star suggests it’s Dirty
http://www.kansascity.com/2012/03/13/3489123/competition-for-spots-in-royals.html
Others have him 1, 2, or 3.
You seem to think that passing along info is a challenge to you or something. I won’t bet you on anything, Craig. Unless you want the Burriss Lionecum bet..
Twin, you’re *Dirrrrty as a #1* has some good comedy to it. Find a single reputable site that has him at #1 and I’ll bite with another post on this. Hochevar is actually poised to have the more promising season which is why I threw the bet out there. If Dirrrrrty gets his head screwed on straight he could back him up at the 2 but don’t count on it. He’s going to hand his night over to the bullpen at 5.1 and 106 pitchers (or whatever he did last year) and then watch 4 guys he’s never heard of bumble the 5-4 lead away. I’m telling you, he’s going to be missing our bullpen like a 5 year old misses his blanket by June 1st………
Kansas City Star also listed Dirty as the projected 1.
http://royalsblog.kansascity.com/?q=node/953
And here he’s 1
http://kingsofkauffman.com/2012/03/13/dissecting-the-rotation/
Here, too
http://www.thefantasyfix.com/1/post/2012/03/royals12312.html
Is ESPN reputablec enough?
http://espn.go.com/mlb/team/depth/_/name/kc/kansas-city-royals
I’m going to bed. I made a non-confrontational vanilla post passing along some info about two of the departed. Why you get all het up, who fucking knows? Have a good night.
I’d say Hector Sanchez has a better chance to play SS than Fruckie at first base. Ever. Anywhere. Puhleeeeze…
I don’t understand why catching a bunch of innings in March is less likely to give you catcher’s “fatigue” than in it would in April.
Amazing.
I don’t understand what the hell you’re saying and yet still agree with you.
If Posey were to catch a bunch of games right now to ensure that he could meet the strain of catching every day in a few weeks, wouldn’t he be risking the same fatigue problem before the season ever started? I’d go into more detail, Ted, but I want to minimize the chances of having you disagree with me.
Thanks James
Pavlovic talking today with Marty Lurie post-game indicated that the Runt and Theriot have contracts that become guaranteed if there are still in major league camp after March 30. Otherwise, they just get 1/4 of the annual amount if they get cut on or before that date. He surmised at least one of the Cajuns would get cut or get shipped out, and more likely the Runt, given Theriot’s RH bat. I think that is a good guess — Burriss should get at least a two week look see in the regular season as Franchez still works on his arm. Lurie said he thought Franchez should be ready by mid April, and that if he wasn’t — then that means things are really not good with that arm. I agree…
Flap Fantasy League Draft is in the books. As usual, at least one or two guys mismanaged their draft lists. But it’s all in good fun and for once EDD isn’t starting behind the 9 ball to start the season!