The Book Tour
I’ve been out of town and pretty detached from all things technological. Not sure who’s day it is. If it’s *yours* and you have something for today then just post it after this post.
I got a voice mail from Pawlie yesterday that said he had gone to the Pirate/Giants game and met K/K and discussed his book with them. There were other details about the game that seemed to have him in quite a good mood.
Ok, let’s finish on a high note….
A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball 
mcdonald dominated yesterday and outdueled Vogs, as did their pen.
re: “belt ,,,hero worship sucks..” He’s in a slump, no doubt. Only AB I saw he took a called third strike on a fastball. Of course, he had a lot of company—the 4 guys ahead of him, including our 3 all stars were 0-14.
New day, another ball game to do what you couldn’t do before. LA and barbs lost again, so SF despite the less than stellar week, is only half back as we hit the break.
Belt needs homecooking.
Agree WillieD – even with the shit week (hopefully the G-Men finish on a positive note) only half a game back is good.
Michael was one (probably of a few) who said no need to panic, and I agree with that, too.
All teams will be looking to make changes, tweaks here and there to make themselves more competitive in the second half, and the Giants will be one of those teams. I don’t think there are significant changes required. With our pitching staff there is always the chance to win a game, a series, and make some noise.
Losing on the road……..what else is new?
RF Blanco
2B Theriot
LF Cabrera
1B Posey
3B Sandoval
CF Pagan
C Sanchez
SS Crawford
P Lincecum
I’ll probably do something on the theme of slumps, remedies, etc., when it’s my turn next week (if I don’t get garkoed or something).. We all know what a slow start Pujols and his $200 mill had to this season. Watching the yanks last night russell martin had been 0 for 30 before singling and is at .179 for the season. clint barmes of the pirates is at .199, and july is pretty late for a regular to still be under mendoza.
Of course, our own eric byrnes had one of the epic slumps of all time with the A’s, something like 9 for 90. I’d love to be able to hear his take on that
I’ve missed most of the last 3 or 4 or Timmy’s starts so I’m not too swayed by his recent successes and struggles over his last 4 starts. If I was pressed to guess I’d say I don’t think he has a very good start today. It’s hot again (I still don’t see why this is allowed to be an excuse for a poor performance) and Pitt plays well at home.
Also, as is usually the case with Timmy starts (and ZIto’s prior to this year) the team seems to play tight early on as the focus is on *what’s Timmy gonna do* versus a total focus on the things they need to do to win the game…….
PK is at this game, too. He’s texted me a couple of nice shots of the yard.
Something interesting to consider: Dirrrrrty Sanchez doesn’t have enough starts/innings to *qualify* for the league leaders (or losers) but if he did, his 6.75 ERA would be by far the worst of any starter in either league I think the closest qualifier in in either league is Arrieta with 6.13 ERA).
So trip on that: Sabean traded a P with the worst ERA in the league for the hitter with the most hits in either league. That’s pretty incredible if you think about it.
This was Ted’s day. Zumie posted yesterday in a switch with Chi. Chi will post for Zumie on Tuesday.
Here is the current schdule, starting with how it should been today:
Ted
Ewisco
Chi
Dennis
WillieD
Flavor
Twin
Did he set his alarm clock?
The GOOD news is that the Pirates strike out a lot. The BAD news is that A.J. Burnett is 5-2 with a 1.84 ERA against the San Francisco Giants in his career. The UGLY news is he’s going up against Lincecum who, let’s face it, apart from one good outing against the Los Angeles Dodgers, has been heinous of late. Since June 5, his ERA is a freakish 6.55.
Isn’t that from the daily ESPN fantasy report?
yeah, it sounded good . . . 🙂
Ha-ha, saw it too when I was looking to pick up a pitcher for today. And his Heinous continues.
One inning – 18 ERA and 2.00 WHIP. What else is new?
This team hits either doubles or homers.
Personally, I would feel even better about the Melky trade ( and I was for acquiring him) if Dirrty was starting the ASG and the leading early candidate for the CY. It shouldn’t make anyone feel better about the deal because Jonathan is having such a hard time.
well, if you don’t find it pretty amazing that we traded *worst ERA* for *most hits* then you are not required to respond to my post. And nowhere in my post did I suggest that I was “feeling better” because he’s sucking so badly this year. I noted it because it was an interesting development in terms of the *antithesis* of it all…….
I would think that a Giants’ fan would feel badly for Jonathan. I definitely don’t get that impression from you. This is hardly your first post on this.
I don’t “feel bad” about it. I’m a Giants fan first, a fantasy fan second. If you aren’t one of those guys then my feelings about you are, at best, nostalgic. I wish him well for his time served, I just don’t care how he ends up doing for the rest of his career.
But I’m not going to pretend to be sad that he’s having a shitty year. I’m going to focus on the trade, which was a godsend for our team, and be *happy* about that……..
Lincecum is starting to throw more strikes
Home Runs are counted as strikes
good news – bad news
welcome back Flav and Twin good to see you both.
one thing the last two series have shown? The SFGs will have to earn their way into the playoffs, all the more to be proud of when they do.
thanks Edd, good to be back. I was in Tahoe for 4 days having fun in the river and dropping my daughter off with her grandparents for her yearly month-long trip to Sun Valley. I’ll get to see more games this month for the next month, so that’s a plus.
Damn, another HR. Hmm.
well, the Barmes hit was just bad luck, as was the Burnett hit that could have been a double play if it was a few feet closer to Crawford.
Walking the un-walkable Barajas and going 3-0 on Barmes were the 2 major fuckups….
Bochy just crossed the Rubicon with Lincecum, taking him out this early. He’s decided this is not happening. They must do something different now with Lincecum. Skip a start, put on the DL, whatever. This cannot continue in the second half…
Bochy has already announced Lincecum will be the No. 2 starter after the break. Can’t imagine he’ll go back on that.
He needs to. This is beyond crisis time now…
No argument here. Not sure why he put Lincecum #2 in the first place. To start at home vs. Astros instead of at Atlanta, maybe.
“To start at home vs. Astros instead of at Atlanta, maybe.” That’s almost undoubtedly why.
yikes, timmeh throwing batting practice
belt and Lincecum on the bench, my heroes are not going into the break looking good.
😦
Belt looks a helluva lot better than the dumb ass decision to have Hector contine to catch Timmy. Don’t worry, though-Huff is on the way!
I admit it..Wrong about Lincecum so far. Hope he turns it around in the 2nd half. Maybe skip a turn or too in the rotation?
The major reason the 13 percenters shouldn’t be gloating is that absoutely anyone who has observed the Zits Era knows that he absolutely will go feet up before the year is over. Having both of them face plant would be terrible news for the team.
Mike, no one is gloating. At least I don’t believe anyone is gloating and if they are, that is bad form . . . I think the “13 %’s” (of which I am one) and anyone else are just stating facts – Timmy sucks. No one is enjoying this or taking satisfaction from his travails. Sheesh, I thought the 2 year contract was reasonable and I am now thinking that even that was a BIG MISTAKE. I hope he proves us all wrong.
“He sucks” is reserved for guys like Tomko, Livan, ZITO- guys who have proven that over YEARS, not 3 months. It does not apply to a guy having a mysterious pitching slump after years of excellence.
If Clay Hensley weren’t a buddy of Bochy, I doubt he would survive the AS break. Maybe he won’t anyway…
Yes timmy has sucked but no love from the bullpen! 2 starts in a row he has walked off leaving the bases loaded and both time the gas has been added and all 3 runs scored. Ouch!
Tim pitched lousy, but Pagan seems to have one lousy play every Lincecum start that helps break Tim’s back.
I agree Z. The fucked up route Pagan took to a fly ball in CF during the Nats game, just seemed to open up the flood gates for Timmy.
Bochy took Timmy out because he knows he can empty his bullpen this game. But he was not good, again……..
We do know he wasn’t good. Thanks, though..
Velocity diminished quicky again- and high was just 91, dropping to 88-89. There’s more than heat involved when he’s getting raked in the first inning. Timmy is not throwing the ball where he wants to, that’s the whole story. And his conditioning has to be questioned.
Is there any definitive statement from Bochy anywhere about why Sanchez is getting two starts through the rotation every time these days? A concern about wear and tear on Posey? As has been noted, it makes the team weaker offensively and defensively overall when Sanchez starts. It seemed to be a nice thing going to have Sanchez as Zito’s personal catcher, and Posey gets that day off from starting. I don’t get what’s gained by Sanchez catching on Lincecum starts.
Zumie, almost all starting catchers take off on Sunday . . . Most managers work it out that way. I see your point, but I think this is just Posey’s regular day off. Also, he is going to be in the All Star game, i.e., another reason to give him a day off.
It wasn’t tough to predict that the POS way this team had been playing, they needed to win the first game of this series to avoid a disaster 0-6 roadie; even I could do it. This roadie proves that Sabes needs to make major mid course corrections. The bench is poor, it hits like spaghetti; they need a big RH bat. The staff needs another arm in the Pen (unless they’re waiting for Mota’s suspension to end and hope for the best until then), and maybe another starter because this Zito/Lincecum two headed disaster will crush the season if it continues this way. At this point, I’d rather see Penny stretched out to start and Lincecum put on the DL for a “strained neck”. Good luck, Sabes…
Hey people! Just my opinion, but let’s stop making excuses for Lincecum. He sucked, regardless of how bad the bullpen was, Pagan’s shit poor fielding, humidity, heat, who is catching, etc. Timmy has been shitty all season, with minor positive blips. He owns that.
I agree- but just making your evaluation to be “he sucks” is not constructive. We all have a right to search for “reasons”- not “excuses”- for his half season poor performance. That some of it is mental is undoubtedly true- that is is not the same as “headcase” – a mentally unstable person. I think it’s just equal parts conditioning, mechanics, and mental- mental in this case meaning he just doesn’t have confidence in what he’s throwing.
I agree.
That’s right Twin!
Games like this is what gives managers grey hair, acid reflux and the visitor’s dugout damage.
1 hit for the Gs, 11 for the home team. Poor defence, mental mistakes? This is not the team that regularly does these things. But they sure look that way today.
But Huff is on the way back, OKie DOKie
I didn’t think the Pablo thing was that bad. The runner was right in front of him, his instincts took over and he tried for the tag, only to find out he was too far away. I also think the runner ran out of the baseline and should have called out.
It’s not like he forgot how many outs there were, he tried to make a play and instincts took over a little too much.
Probably a good explanation. Still, the routine play is to first base…
it looks to me like Penny could have incorporated more sashimi into his diet during his time in Japan……
not sure if he’s still planning on doing it, but before I left I read that Kemp is going to participate in the Home Run Derby. I’m fine with that because I can’t think of a single good thing (for him or the Dodgers) that will come from doing something so misguided regardless of if he wins it or not……..
(grin)
Cargo is doing the same thing. Dumb. He already is having a terrible road trip (actually, no surprise there, since his road and home splits are outrageously at opposite poles), but also participating in that HR derby probably wont help his current slump.
Bochy should empty the bench. This is friggin embarrassing. The whole trip has been an embarrassment. The team has its collective head up its collective ass. A spread tossing and tongue lashing would be appropriate before they scatter for the AS break. Did I say stretch Penny? Maybe put him on the rack, instead. Dare I say the starting pitching now is a humongous concern heading into the second half. Yes, it is. Good day, sirs…
“He sucks” is reserved for guys like Tomko, Livan, ZITO- guys who have proven that over YEARS, not 3 months. It does not apply to a guy having a mysterious pitching slump after years of excellence.”
So says you. Don’t ever put words into my mouth. I maintain he SUCKS. End of conversation.
I gave my opinion- you gave yours -yours doesn’t end the conversation. I never put any words in your mouth, pal.
I know what you maintain- but your OPINION doesn’t hold any more weight than mine- which has a bit more history going for it. Timmy is having problems- Zito succccccccckkkks.
botchy looks like he is ready to go fishing. For the rest of 2012
I didn’t know you were a “Botchy” guy, Edd. I guess I just missed it.
nope, I just mistyped
I am all for our skipper
Nope, I just mistyped
I am all in on our Skipper
Thanks for clarifying the Flap posting schedule, Michael.
Somebody needed to.
Actually, it was quite clear. I have no idea why Ted didn’t post today. Chi and I had made it very clear to the stable that we were doing a one-time switch.
It wasn’t clear enough to Ted, which is why I posted the correct schedule- which should been done when the switch was made.
Perhaps Ted has other reasons he didn’t post today.
So why would that make it a problem that a corrected schedule was posted? It *is* something that should be done when changes are made. That’s basic.
there must be a router somewhere that is overworked; I keep losing my mlb.com feed.
That may be a good thing?
burnett is still pitching on the black; this may be time for the BP
a nice 6 run inning as we are do!
Excuses are cheap this time of year. It’s the heat, or some guy sucks who was playing like an all star before this are chump change. The guys look pissed off and I can’t imagine it is anything other than management that has caused it. I have no idea why, but these guys were in 1st place and now look like they could care less. Did they not expect to run into the heat in July? Did they not know we lacked power on offense? Did they think all the starters would be perfect? These are problems that point back at management. Don’t know if it’s Bochy, Sabean or ownership but they don’t seem like a group who wants to play for management.
It’s utter nonsence that these guys don’t care or that they don’t want to play for management. It’s the kind of thing we hear anytime they’re slumping. And it’s always wrong.
I wouldn’t say this team is slumping, especially with the run up they had to get near first place. I think they’ve played damn well the last six weeks or so. They just seem to have lost their spark and don’t seem to have their heart into this game. Maybe they’ll come back firing on all cylinders, but I think they want management to bolster the line up or something. I have no idea why they would seem so weak on the last game of the half, but thought maybe someone else knew something. I do think Tim’s problem is more mental than physical and I do wonder why both he and Zito prefer Sanchez over Posey but who knows. I hope I’m wrong on all counts and we come back and start hitting again. The West is up for grabs again.
Zito and Lincecum have not said they prefer Sanchez. That was Bochy’s decision. In Zito’s case, he’s presumably the easiest to catch because he basically calls his own game . In Tim’s case, that’s over. Book it.
Zito not only said he wanted Sanchez, he was responsible for Sanchez coming up from the minors. Not sure what you refer to as “book it” for Lincecum, but I doubt Sanchez is catching for him if he doesn’t make that known. That is certainly what writers have said too about the catcher. Having said all of that, I don’t know if that is the problem though. I do not understand why in hell Posey, who is slumping – something like 2 for 20 – was playing for Belt? That doesn’t seem to help either of the two as Belt was just starting to get some confidence. Look I’m not saying I have any answers, but something’s wrong here and if you guys don’t see it, then what is wrong?
Do you have a quote on Zito preferring Sanchez over Posey? He had said he felt comfortable with Hector when he pitched with him during his rehab and ther has been *speculation” that Zito lobbied for him to be on the roster. As far Timmy, Buster wants to catch him- and they aren’t going against Posey’s wishes after these last two outings. But I’m always open to proof if went dowm differently.
No, no quotes, just what I inferred from what I heard from broadcasters or writers. I may have it wrong but that seems to be what I recall. I just have a feeling about Posey but it may be totally off. He seems like he may have ticked somebody off for some reason, but I have no idea what it might have been and it’s totally my own feeling. Thought it may have been because of this.
It’s a road trip that is not successful. It happens.
Worst game of the year?For the staff for sure. Every pitcher in the game was on the mound when runs scored. Ouch.
Our season is all about Timmy so far. 3-10. I think Giants are 3-14 in his 17 starts. Even a lousy (for him) 10-7 and Giants are 1st 3 games.
A realistic (going into the season) 12-5 in his games, and that isn’t even a stretch historically, and the Giants have the best record in the majors…
The “record in games started” is a dubious stat, IMO. Casilla’s blown two saves for Cain in the last few weeks. Both losses count as losses in games started by Cain. What good is a “stat” like that?
I’m gonna second Zumie’s 12:06 post. Hector now has the exact same OPS as Crawford, which is 30 points below .700 mark—his OB is 23 points worse, his slugging 23 points better than crawford. Clearly, what he adds offensively is quite limited, and he certainly hasn’t been much help to Zito or Lincecum lately. For as long as he can stay healthy, Posey needs to be in there as often as reasonably possible behind the plate
This has been clear- what the team suffers defensively at two positions, and offensively with Hector instead of Belt, doesn’t justify the alignment. Buster should catch 4 games, sit one.
Are all the details of PK @ PNC 4 Pirates gonna be posted here or on his blog?
I am dead interested and dead happy about the book tour
more to come, tomorrow, I hope
If Posey suffers even one concussion this year, it could just end his career behind the dish. Every time he takes one off the old loaf, I hold my breathe. My gut tells me that behind the scenes they are lobbying him or his agent for him to make the move before that happens. Too much invested and Giant management hates to admit they made a mistake. I can’t wait to see what moves Sabean makes later this month, but I’m betting it’s a doosey. If we have any chance to get to October, it will take some maneuvering.
Of course, there is another possiblity with Tim, that I noted long ago- he’s breaking down. He’s a little guy with a violent motion and he might have just pitched himself out. Which would not mean he “sucks”, just that he gave all he had for as long as he had it to give… just a possibilty, but not a far fetched one..
Zumie, I agree with it being an imperfect stat except in this argument. re Lincecum it works, because the bullpen hasn’t been involved in those losses. It’s all on Lincecum.
Robbie..my 2 cents.. Posey is an average 1st baseman. 18 homers 80 rbi’s is like every other 1b, worse in fact. That is why he will catch. he’s an Allstar CATCHER…
PS “if we have any chance”…Giants are 1/2 game out after losing 5/6 games. We have “any chance” doing nothing…
Ha, i guess I’m a bit shell shocked after seeing the Nats and Pirates and dreading the return of Kemp.
It would be really sad if Tim can’t get back to where he was again. Damn he was good when he was good and he was just about to get that great big paycheck. I can’t see it, but is there any chance of him making it as a closer? It seems stamina is one of his biggest challenges.
Ted thought Dirt had today.
I’m not sure what Timmy’s problem(s) have been this year. Since ST he hasn’t been right. During ST he said he’d be right come OD and Boch said something to the effect of, that you can’t just turn it on like a switch. Whatever the reason, I do agree with Blade, right now he sucks (it’s the what have you done for me lately rule as opposed to the Zito rule). Posey? I’ve said before that I thought he was better suited for third base (Chuck didn’t agree with me that Pablo would make an OK LFer). Now I’m thinking switch Buster to Second next year, he is not a catcher IMO. Belt? In the games I’ve seen lately Belt’s head is so fucked up he’s guessing on every pitch, called third strikes is now his MO. Get Clark back working with the guy and have everyone else leave him alone, or trade him. Because I don’t want to get into a fight, I won’t mention what I think of our BP.
This is one All Star break that I wish all of our guys had the days off to do whatever it is that that fires it up.
Well, I don’t go with “sucks” for a guy who is having extended problems after the contributions Tim has made. I would go with “sucks” for a guy who has had extended problems for 5 years…
Belt has had a mini-slump, he’s stiil better than most of the other young first basemen in the NL according to Flavor’s preferred stat for offensive production-wRC+.The guy in a more prolonged slump, other than Blanco, is Pagan. It may not mean a lot, but after Melky, Pablo, and Buster, Belt is the 4th most productive . Then it goes Pagan and Blanco. Theriot and Crawford are 7-8. This is before today’s game. This stat is not just RBI or Runs- it’s “weighted runs produced” adjusted for league and ballpark. Thanks to Flavor for bring the stat up- it’s a better gauge than even OPS+.
Just calling it like I see it twin, right now IMO Tim sucks. I agree about Zito though, despite his stats, he still sucks.
I don’t agree about Belt being in a mini-slump, I think it’s more of a major head-fuck. It seems to me the dude is guessing on every pitch and not guessing right. I don’t think my mind is going to change about Posey. I just don’t think he should be playing catcher.
Thanks for covering for me Flavor. No I didn’t forget or not wake up on time or anything like that.
No excuses. The basic fact is I’m just pretty fucking stupid. The dirt buy-day and zumiee-chi swap confused me. My apologies to everyone.
It’s no big deal at all, Ted. I will say it for probably the 10th time, the schedule is just meant to work as a guide for The Stable Boys. If one of you can’t think of something to write or forget or whatever, either myself of one of the other guys will slap something up there by 9am……
It wouldn’t hurt for the schedule to be updated when changes are made, would it? Is that harder than putting up a post to cover a guy? Just a question. Thanks.
2 guys switching spots isn’t worth changing the schedule over. If everyone just keeps track of their days it will be fine. And again, if someone forgets to post, it’s an easy fix by 9am every day.
Well, it wasn’t just two guys switching that confused Ted ( he thought was Dirt’s day) .First Dirt wanted his day covered, Ewisco said he’d take it, then he didn’t, so you did. But whatever, it’s not a big deal, neither is correcting the schedule, as I did this morning.
I’m agreeing with Spe too much!
First Andy Griffith and now Ernest Borgnine. If I were John Astin, I wouldn’t be answering my doorbell for a month or so
Not to mention Uncle Lionel Batiste from the Treme Brass Band. Rest In cacophony Uncle Lionel.
D-Backs are being our friends again today.
Neither the Dodgers or the Dbacks are as good as we are, even with our issues.
agreed
time to take a break and start afresh on Friday the 13th
Bochy, Rags, Hemsley, the trainers and dieticians better be prepared, we got some games to play.
Go Gigantes
Bauer was outstanding–his groin issue looks to be behind him
I am watching Baseball Tonight and it was just stated that this season there are more members of the Oblique club than the 500 homers club.
Does this mean baseball is becoming a more demanding sport?
Probably not. The teams are just more protective of their players now, with all the money they have invested in them. Guys probably pulled oblique muscles in the past and just gimped their way through it as best they could, and probably not all that well.
Speaking of injuries, I never see baseball trainers spraying that ‘freeze stuff’ on players anymore after they get hit by a foulball while batting, like they used to. That used to be real common. I wonder if it was found to be bad stuff, like asbestos or something.
it was probably The Clear and they didn’t want to risk getting busted. Kidding. Sort of.
Twin, I find your flip-flop on Lincecum to be a little surprising. You were always the first one to go off on the guy last year if he had a bad game and I (along with many others here) would point to Timmy’s *track record* as a reason to give him some rope. I remember one of your funnier critiques was when you went off on him for not being a good hitter.
And you calling it only 3 months of poor performances isn’t totally accurate. He had a terrible spring and a pretty bad Sept 2011 (1.47 WHIP). But either way, at some point everyone has to decide when there is no more rope to give. My day happened May 21st with this post:
https://oneflapdown77.com/2012/05/21/tim-lincecum-needs-to-get-his-head-out-of-his-ass/
Anyway, you can define “sucks” anyway you want. Same with Blade. Same with me or anyone else. But it is impossible to deny that Lincecum hasn’t *sucked* this season. He had a lot of banked *rope* with me (a lot more than you who gave him NONE until everyone finally flipped on him this year for sound reasons). He sucks NOW. He has sucked all year. I don’t know the reasons and neither do you, but I appreciate attempts at finding answers (I especially liked the one you gave today about this being a general physical breakdown but not an injury that would require surgery or a trip to the DL). That’s certainly possible.
But he sucks. Right now. Totally and completely.
I can use the terminology I please, sir.
But try to rememer things correctly– I PRAISED him after he delivered a hit to help himself and went on to discuss not just him but pitchers in general.
I’ve always supported Tim whether I praised him or critisised him. What I had a problem with was the notion that he was beyond critisism just as I have a problem with the reverse this year. Now- to do as you said-I will not discuss this with you anymore this evening.
you can use any terminology you like? Exactly, that’s exactly what I said in my last post. I noted it because you have misread 2 different posts today (one from me and one from Blade) where you assigned language or words that neither of used.
And I remember EVERYTHING correctly. I bet there at least 100 (or more) posts from you in the archives of you criticizing Timmy when others were more tolerant. And no one needs to go look it up, all the vets remember your ongoing criticisms of Timmy and Buster over seemingly trivial things. Previous to this year, Timmy had a fingernail’s length of rope with you. Now this year you flipped as soon as everyone else finally started calling him out on his ongoing shit pitching performances. Interesting…….
And I’m glad you don’t want to talk about this with me further tonight. If I choose to discuss it with other later I hope that doesn’t change your mind………
I repeat because it is so unreal..Even with Pablo DL’ed and losing Wilson for the year..If Lincecum is his usual self we have the best record in the majors by 4 games. I hope Twin is incorrect, and he has an injury. Possibly one that is minor, but hidden. Would it be the 1st time the Giants have mismanaged an injury? Like say Wilson having a strain, that possibly was a tear last year? Nowah Lowrey anyone? Just a thought…
and also never getting anything from Freddy.
Watergate seems more recent to me than Nate’s last HR…
Brain teaser: Can anyone remember a star pitcher (like Lincecum) having one terrible season and then regaining his top form?
that’s a great question and I bet there are a lot of examples. I’ll kick it around in my brain.
What’s in that damn thing?
There may not be, BF. I don’t mean a kind of off year like Marichal in ’67 when he was also injured, I mean a full fledged stinker of a season…
A much better question, considering it’s the All-Star break, and not October- would be how many have had a terrible first half and then regained top form in the second half? That’s for Loo.
A couple come to mind immediately, Twin – Sutcliffe in ’84 & Catfish in ’78. But the circumstances weren’t really comparable to Tim.
Loo, so we know what your parameters are, what would your criteria be for “comparable circumstances”?
Well, Yankee diehards will remember that Hunter’s turnaround was the result of a famous shoulder manipulation. Sutcliffe’s could be attributed to being traded from the crappy Indians to the contending Cubs.
That wasn’t what I asked, Loo. You have no requirement to answer my question, of course. But I asked what the parameters were for “comparable circumstances”. You answered about a couple circumtances that are not comparable.
Comparable meaning the improvement could not be attributed to being traded to a better team or recovering from an injury.
So? You got any? I’m your student here, Loo. If BF is responding to my question- I’m talking about second half vs. first half. The full year question is not relevant as to Timmy yet.
He’s having a tough year whatever the reason. Lets see how he does in the coming homestands to further our conclusions. He may still come back strong.
I think Jeter just dropped the first pop-up of his career…
Gaylord Perry had a few shitty years after he won 24 in ’72 and then went on to win 21 in ’78. Of course, they really weren’t *shitty*, he was a .500 pitcher for a few years and his ERA was still pretty solid. Although it seems everyone had good ERA’s back then, lol.
Anyway, I’ll keep thinking about it. All I’m doing is looking at the career CY lists and if I see a pitcher who I thought had a career hiccup or two then I go check him out at baseball-ref. There are probably better ways to do this search……
.
I remember Perry being 20-2 at one point in ’66 and winding up 21-8…
Peavy’s now an all star, so if he kept this season going he could tepidly qualify. Of course, I think he had some arm problems, something that, until he hits the DL, Timmy doesn’t really have…….
Frnak Viola is a mini-qualifier— won 24 games in ’88 then had a .500 season in ’89 and came back to win 20 with the Mets in ’90
Tom Seaver SUCKED in 1982, going 5-13, 5.50 ERA, 1.61 WHIP, after going 14-2 (2nd in CYA) the year before . . .
Fast forward to 1984 and 1985, he went 15-11, 3.95 ERA,1.17 WHIP and 16-11, 3.17 ERA, 1.22 WHIP, respectively.
I’d have it being former CY winners who didn’t have a bad year to a lost season or surgery…..
Mark Fidrych. Is the first name that comes to my mind.
Comparable to Timmy? I don’t know. Meltdown after kicking everybody’s ass? That compares to Tim.
Dontrelle Willis? Denny McClain?
Maybe Tim is supposed to be on the Tigers.
Porch, Jason Schmidt, Zito, Hudson, Mike Norris. It doesn’t really matter, nobody is reading this shit anyway.
Matt Snell (final answer).
A relevant and interesting question concerns Zits in 2010- until his last two starts he was having his best year here- I doubt there’s a soul here who wouldn’t take a 3.98 ERA on September 24- we’d dance until dawn. Even considering the final game meltdown, he’d probably be the 3 or 4 starter almost any other year- the other 4 were just so good ( Even Dirrty, who had something like a 1.04 ERA in Sptember) that Bochy had no choice but to leave him out. And with that- we could bask all Winter..
It would be perfectly fine to look into this based on a full single year. You could also do one for a first half failure/2nd half resurgence, but that would take forever. I think Loo’s question is a good one. While his year isn’t complete, he couldn’t be any more entrenched back at Square 1…….
And since we haven’t been able to find a pitcher who’s ever done it (ie, a pitcher of his great resume who fell off the map and came back in a subsequent year when injury can’t be blamed for the bad year, I think it’s actually a fantastic question)…….
Try harder.
really? It’s that easy? You’ve got a former CY winner who turned into one of if not THE worst pitcher in the league (and it wasn’t due to injury) who bounced back in a following year to their former glory? Have you even thrown a name out? Until you do so how about you stop complaining about the parameters of Loo’s question and telling me to “try harder”…..
Loo never made CY winners as a criteria. And some are reversing things- the question was who has recovered from the year Tim is being presumed to have- not having a terrible year after a good one.
He clearly defined the parameters of his question: “one terrible year.” I threw CY winners out there because it’s an easy way to thin the list of “great pitchers” but it was just a suggestion. You couldn’t wait to try to change it to 1st half implosion/2nd half recovery but, unless he’s written a post in the last min or two, I don’t think that’s what he was looking for.
And again, take the *try harder* shit and stuff it. Especially coming from the guy who didn’t even throw out a name while many of the rest of us did, that is some seriously weak shit coming from you.
I asked about 1st half/2nd half and HE answered, dude.See his 5:51. At that point he and I were discussing 1st half/second half- not the full year. Fact.
He was politely trying to answer your tangent. He didn’t change his parameters: he was talking about a full year. And the fact that Timmy is almost in “Jonathon Sanchez” territory in terms of sucking balls out on the mound, with literally no clue of how to fix this and being back at square 1, I think it’s a perfectly fine question to put to the bloggers. What, he’s gotta wait till the end of the year before he asks it????
Forget Lincecum.
CAN YOU NAME ONE??????
Some of us tried.
You came up with *try harder*
Weak……..
I’m not interested in looking it up- you are. And I didn’t complain about his parameters-I asked what they were. Big diff. He answered, so it’s no longer a question.
you said “a much better question would be:” and then went on with your 1st half/2nd half shit. If you don’t want to try to answer the question then don’t try to answer it. But again, you will stop with this “try harder” shit like I’m some dumb bitch and you’ve got all the answers from your wizard of Oz tower ready to educate all of us when we can’t figger it out…..
“twinfan1 said, on July 8, 2012 at 5:43 pm (Edit)
A much better question, considering it’s the All-Star break, and not October- would be how many have had a terrible first half and then regained top form in the second half? That’s for Loo.”
DJLoo said, on July 8, 2012 at 5:51 pm
A couple come to mind immediately, Twin – Sutcliffe in ’84 & Catfish in ’78. But the circumstances weren’t really comparable to Tim.
Oops, I fucked up. I was answering to pitchers at the top of their game that lost it.
It’s all interesting, John. There’s no law against listing those. Ewisco, as per your E-Mail- that is correct, tomorrow is your day.
I asked Loo some polite questions and he answered them politely.
well then maybe you should *try harder* at understanding people’s posts. That’s 3 you didn’t really get today……..
“DJLoo said, on July 8, 2012 at 5:23 pm (Edit)
There may not be, BF. I don’t mean a kind of off year like Marichal in ’67 when he was also injured, I mean a full fledged stinker of a season…”
See? It really couldn’t be much clearer. “off year” is a reference to a full off year. When he says “stinker of a season” you could look to the definition of “season” and see the follow:
Noun 1. baseball season – the season when baseball is played
it doesn’t say “half” or “part of”—-he was talking about a full season……….
Unbelievable. I then asked about first half and second second and he politely answered. At that point he and I were discussng that- as his answer to my question clearly demonstrates.
Come on guys start punching away. Give us some cheap entertainment.
Read this again. It is AFTER 5:23 and his fucking answer clearly refers to first half second half. You are doing this purposely.
“twinfan1 said, on July 8, 2012 at 5:43 pm (Edit)
A much better question, considering it’s the All-Star break, and not October- would be how many have had a terrible first half and then regained top form in the second half? That’s for Loo.”
DJLoo said, on July 8, 2012 at 5:51 pm
A couple come to mind immediately, Twin – Sutcliffe in ’84 & Catfish in ’78. But the circumstances weren’t really comparable to Tim.”
Sutcliffe was 4-5 the first half,16-1 the second
Catfish was 2-3, 10-3.
I’m not stupid, I can read. It was your “a better question would be”: and your *try harder* shit on something you didn’t even have a fucking clue about is what pissed me off. But I am probably crossing my own conduct rule on frequency of posts so I will stop. I have to go anyway
For the record, right now I still think Tim sucks. If I was a betting man, I’d think Tim would agree.
I’m not sure where the comparison to Zito came in but from what I’ve seen, Zito is pitching better than expected and Timmy isn’t. Did I miss something?
I have never said or even insinuated that others don’t have the right to say he sucks. I said *I* reserved that term for the 5 year suck person. The claim that I put words in anyone’s mouth is total rot.
You don’t have to make any comparison to Zits, Bozo, I don’t care. But I can, as I made it clear that I’m referring to their “body of work” , such as it is..
It would have been nice to see you reference Tim’s *body of work* last year when you were busy nitpicking on him over stuff that we now see is trivial compared to the mess he’s in now……
I did and I have. Statement stands that I reserve “he sucks” for the 5 year suck person.