Cain vs. Hamels, who’s cuisine will reign supreme?
Here we go, Ace vs. Ace (Spy vs. Spy anyone?). These two are surprisingly well matched. Hamels and Cain were both drafted out of high school in 2002. Hamels, out of San Diego, was the number 17 overall pick and Cain, out of Germantown TN, was the 25th pick. Cain was the first to pitch in the Majors when he started a game against Colorado on August 29th of 2005. He went 5 innings. Struck out 2 and walked 4. Lost 2-1 on a solo HR by Matt Holiday in the second and when, in the 4th, Todd Helton scores after a walk, 2 base hits, and a double play. This would later be known as being “Cained”. Hamels debuted on May 12th of 2006. He also went 5 innings, striking out 7 and walking 5, giving up no runs. Since then, Hamels has an ERA of 3.36 to Cain’s 3.28. Their career stats stand at (Hamels/Cain):
GAMES CG IP HR BB SO WHIP
199/222 10/15 1287/1444 155/120 322/498 1216/1209 1.136/1.175
Their 2012 Stats are:
GS ERA IP HR BB SO WHIP
18/18 3.07/2.56 126/126.2 14/12 30/25 125/124 1.087/.955
If we look at Hamels at home vs. Cain on the road we see:
ERA IP HR BB SO WHIP
2.76/3.28 (9 games each) 64/57.2 6/7 17/17 69/55 1.097/1.197
And yet Hamels is 5-3 at home!!
So, what to look for in today’s game: In Wins:
SO/9 SO/BB HR WHIP
8.6/9.9 4.28/5.5 7/3 1.000 .929
In loses:
SO/9 SO/BB HR WHIP
10.1/7.7 4.67/4.50 4/5 1.360/1.238
A very intriguing stat is that in day games, Hamels is 5-4 (6-0 at night!!) while Cain is 6-0 during the day (4-3 at night).
A look at the umpiring crew reveals no news as apparently this crew has not officiated either of the two teams.
When I started looking at this game, it was from the perspective that this is a game where the bats go cold and the giants lose. Their Ace defeats our Ace. But Hamels’ day game stats (5-3) give a sliver of hope. Truly difficult to believe that Hamels gave up 7 HR’s in games that he’s won. Thankfully we have Brandon Crawford. Interesting to note that Matt has more walks when he wins than when he loses. Obviously he needs to keep it in the park though (Cole seems to give up more homers in wins, go figure). It’s easy to predict a low scoring affair, after all it IS Cain on the mound. But if it is, it’s also possible to predict that Matty, probably not getting the W, prevails in the end.
Now, does someone else want to go after Ted?
A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball 
Weatherproof games: Mariners at Rays and Astros at Diamondbacks. Only a little bit of rain is in the early morning forecast on Saturday for Philadelphia and Pittsburgh, with the chance of the wet stuff possibly delaying the start of the doubleheader in Washington. Other than that, it’s varying levels of sunny skies for the entire weekend schedule. Missouri is still in the grip of a heat wave that may see temperatures in the triple digits on Sunday. Finally, it seems mother nature is going to let the players play.
That is a lucid, intelligent, well thought-out thread…
Great thread ewisco. We are getting into a wonderful stretch of baseball for our Giants, especially after they complete this road trip with Philadelphia and return home. Why is that?
Simply put, the GMen are numero uno in baseball at home in ERA (2.31), WHIP (1.04), batting average allowed (.207), OPS allowed (.576) and both saves (19) and save percentage (86 percent). If you have become concerned about Casilla, put your worry beads away because he has been lights out at home. Sure, he has five blown saves in his past eight opportunities. No argument from me there. However, Casilla has been a stud at the Phone Park, i.e., he’s 14-for-15 in save chances with a 1.83 ERA, compared to 9-for-14 with a 5.28 ERA on the road. Couple that with Romo and the rest of our relief corps at home, then you have a virtual lock in the latter innings of each home game.
Everyone saw what Timmy did last night. It gets better on Wednesday, when he faces off against one of his favorite foils, the Padres. He has a 10-4 record, 16 quality starts, a 2.02 ERA, 1.15 WHIP and 10.13 strikeouts-per-nine innings ratio in 20 career starts against them, including a 2.57 ERA and 0.93 WHIP in two meetings this season.
I am buying into Ewisco’s logic above and say that Matty and the Giants do “prevail” today and hopefully, tomorrow as well. Afterwards, they are at home against the hapless Padres, hated Dodgers, and barely above .500 Mets. I predict the Giants will increase their 2.5 games over the Bums by another 2.5 games minimally by the end of their home stand. You can take that to the bank.
On the down side they have 19 games in a row after this Thursday’s rest day @ home. That is 6 at home, 7 on the road and then another 6 @ home. they leave Philly tomorrow and are back on the field @ home in just over 12 hours.
The good news?
Crawford is turning into a streak hitter and I hope that streak runs for a while. I also see us getting to Hamels today and a shutdown by the BP. Thanks, ewisco, great topic for today’s game, well researched.
Now, if BF would update the BBOTD my day will be complete.
Cain’s the man. His underlying stats match up or are better than almost all of his peers yet somehow he goes unnoticed nationally. Maybe having started the AS game this year is starting to change that.
Matt Cain even matches up better then the guy he beat in the A/S game Justin Verlander IMO.Verlander has him in wins and K’s,but Matt has him beat in ERA,and just about every other stat.
If Matt had any decent offense support over the years,he’d of had more wins then Verlander as well.Verlander does have a Cy Young, but Matt will get his this year to match him.
Funny kat, I was having the same discussion recently comparing Verlander and Cain. The only advantage for Verlander is Ws but that’s what people notice. Its a small sample size but Cain’s post seasnon numbers are superior by far. I’ll take Cain
I would assume Cain’s gotten a decent amount of national attention this year, but in general the things that get you noticed are quirky behavior, a good nickname, an unusual physical characteristic, a gaudy W-L record or strikeout total – things like that. Cain just does his job…
Oh, I don’t know. Chelsea and Nicole report that he’s quite well endowed…
OK, this is not a knock on fantasy ball per se, but in so far as how it relates to real baseball: look at the guys who have driven in runs lately for SF. Whitey and crawford had 6 of the 7 last night, and burriss had two hits and a rbi the day before. The LU featured 4 guys, half the position players —theriot crawford nate whitey—that are not exactly fantasy mainstays. Yet SF romps!
Fantasy type all star teams, where no one has to play defense or need a day off (including closers) are fun for what they are. But none of the little things that make real baseball interesting, such as moving a runner over with a ground out or sac unt, taking a walk to keep an inning alive, or saving a run with a nice defensive play or costing one with a blunder, pitchers tiring or having to be hit for, matter very much.
I really don’t care how many fantasy teams an individual is on or what fantasy numbers a guy puts up; what is important to me is how well the guys we have are playing, in terms of real baseball, and what they are doing (or not) to help our team win. Fantasy vs. real baseball is more like dreaming of a bbotd and life at my apt. Sure it has it’s very enjoyable place, just not grounded in real life.
Profound Willie. And oh so true.
E, what a perfect thread as I get ready to head out to the game. Hamels 5-3 at home is even more impressive considering the Phils are an NL-worst 17-28 at CBB. Last year, Cain and Hamels matched up twice: at Philly (2-1 Giants) and at SF (2-1 Phillies). Most memorably, of course, was Cain’s 3-0 win over Hamels and the Phils in Game 3 of the NLCS. And this must be a big matchup since the cheapest tix on Stubhub were in the $18-20 range, while the cheapest for the other two games were in the $4-5 range.
Yes very lucid indeed.
BLEEP!
I discovered last night (or early this morning) that watching a late-night Yanks game is a surefire cure for insomnia. How do AL fans watch these games? Those A’s are on some roll, though.
Lucid, well thought out, but Cain isn’t facing Hamels..Phillies haven’t hit Matt very well- current Phils have just a .212 BAA- whereas our current hitters have batted over .300 against Hamels. So, taking Eric’s extensive research into account, and some additional numbers on how the opposing teams have hit against them- there is a clear conclusion that can be drawn- one of them may win today..
Good call! Twin does it again!
another thing to highlight these two is the contract. See what the phils do, but I think they are stuck coughing it up to keep him, whereas SF has already made its call. Only question is how many years they are willing to pay for. Man, what an expensive team to be dead last.
Where do you see that Cains isn’t pitching against Hamels? Far as I can tell, that’s the matchup.
He’s pitching against the Phil’s hitters.
Great post Ewisco. Thanks…
The plight of the Phillies points out how ridiculous the statement “injuries are no excuse” is. Of course it’s an excuse-one of the few valid ones. “Utley and Howard have been out all year, but that’s no excuse. Anybody can step up and contribute what they do…”
Any bets on who catches Zito tomorrow? I’m guessing it won’t be Buster, but hey, it’s all good. Just don’t think Bochy is telling the whole truth on this story.
If I had to lay down money on someone from this blog who’d catch Zito, my coin is on Chuck. I bet Chuck’s a hardened and venerable catcher with tons of experience. Real easy to pitch to Chuck.
I think buster is feeling the ankle. Flavor said at the start of the year that buster was going to have a hard time coming back and i think he’s right. buster can obviously hit ok and play first but the bend you put into the ankle when you catch is a sure fire way to irritate that injury. I just don’t think they’re going to talk about it. hopefully they told belt so he understands it’s not that the backup catchers are better than him but they have to find a way to keep their best hitter in the game and that is at first base. i don ‘t think he would argue with that. I suspect that after the season is over, unless it goes really bad on him and they have to use the DL, that we’ll find out more about this.
I have seen zero indication that Buster is having problems catching. If his anke is bad, it ain’t getting better catching 60 percent of the time. BTW, I had posted that making it back all the way would be tough this year, if Flavor also said that, we were both wrong. He’s better than ever.
If they want to start thinkuing about a new position for him, it should be LF, BTW.
If Buster has problems with both Zito and Lincecum, they’d better work that out-or if the real problem is Belt in their minds, do someting about THAT. If they think the answer is Eli or Arias over Belt, they’re delusional.
Arias? Is he a possibility? At one point, I was looking forward to seeing Pablo behind the plate for a couple of innings, but I no longer harbor that hope. Far as Belt goes, he seems to be making his lot worse by his antics at the plate when he fails. he needs to quit those antics if he wants Bochy to get past that. He has over 30 rbi’s, which ain’t bad considering his at-bats on this team. Lots of those were clutch too. Yet he seems to be sacrificed to allow for Posey’s bat, which is hard to argue. Lots of questions on Bochy’s relationship with some of the strugglers, and I wonder if Nate won himself any more starts with his game last night? I don’t have any answers, but lots of questions about how this has been handled and don’t expect to find the answers from local news or broadcasters.
It’s not Posey’s bat, it was Hector’s, or Arias if Sandoval plays first, or now Whiteside. Do you follow?
What antics by Belt?…
Good stuff, Ewisco. It’s interesting how some opponent starting pitchers seem to intersect at important moments. Timmy had all those games against Kershaw last year.
Schierholtz RF, Theriot 2B, Cabrera LF, Posey C, Sandoval 3B, Pagan CF, Arias SS, Belt 1B, (Cain P)
I know there are statistical/match-up logic reasons, but…..sheesh, hit the big grandslam, and take a seat, son.
And Schierholtz has either proven that whining works, or the Giants are showcasing for a trade.
“sheesh”
Somebody explain to me how a guy who has been in the league for years, and everybody’s seen, can be “showcased” right before the deadline. All that means to me is that he’s playing to confirm to other teams that he’s healthy. And, at the same time risking injury so he can’t be traded. Otherwise, the “showcasing” seems like a ludicrous term, the other teams all know what Nate can do or can’t do…
Who else in the NL has their first sacker batting 8th? What a joke. I’m sure Hammels will lob up a bunch of fat ones to Belt hitting in front of Cain. NOT! [insert Borat voice]
Kuiper was talking about whether or not a day off helps hitters, saying, “when you’re hot, it’s impossible to get a day off.” Guess that don’t apply to Crawford.
Bochy knows best.
If taking walks is such a concern with Belt why not give him a shot leading off?
Maybe Bochy is remembering how the Gamer did well at leadoff. For about a month. Pagan or Sholz as leadoff, either one doesn’t make much sense right now, so maybe this was a coin flop…
Nate doesn’t do well in pinch-hitting roles, and his penchant for swinging at the first pitch says maybe he doesn’t want to do well in that role. It seems like the last half dozen times he’s been asked to fill that role, he roles over to second base before he gets to see a pitch. Now that Blanco isn’t performing too well, will Bochy give Nate another starting shot, or keep both these two guys groping for starts? I don’t see Nate in the lead-off role either. I can’t recall the last time the Giants had a real lead-off guy though.
Andres Torres (2010)
Nate is not being considered for the lead off spot full time. It will be Blanco, or they’ll move Pagan back there. They’ve tried Christian against LHers recently, that trial seems to be over.
I guar-an-damn-tee ya Belt will walk at least once today batting 8th. And the first to say, “Good AB” gets donkey punched.
I am thinking Bitch slapped
It depends on the situation, there are many where a walk in front of the pitcher is a good AB. Try to learn this game, Denny.
If Belt walks with 2-outs and the bases juiced I’ll stand corrected. Otherwise expand your zone and swing the goddamn bat.
At least with Belt you might get that 2-out bases loaded walk hitting 8th. With Burriss, the pussy-ass bitch would try to bunt.
Well at least No Whitey today! Yeah I don’t understand the benching of Crawford either. Twin, give us the reason!!
Well, it makes more sense than batting Arias in front of Belt. The reasoning? Hamels is obviously a very tough lefty, Crawford doesn’t hit lefties very well and why ruin his hot streak by hitting him against a guy who would most likely own him for a day”? That’s their reasoning, IMO. Personally, at this point, I’d play him everyday.
Remember “Gus” from that Disney movie? That mule/donkey could kick the shit out of a football. Oich!
I predicted the second game in Atlanta that El Presidente would catch Lincecum. Why would you put a guy who hasn’t been on the team all season and not particularly good defensively to catch a pitcher who needs to keep some sketchy confidence and build on it? Bochy went out of his way to say there’s nothing going on between Timmeh and Buster. All the more reason I think there is…
If nate wants to prove he belongs with the blanco’s and christian’s of the world he needs to get on and show that he can steal some bases.
Christian? Why exactly is he on this team? If Bochy kept to his policy of, “what ‘ave you done for us lately,” he’d be on a slow bus to Fresno.
Well, it should have been Jackson Williams, not Eli. And they clear the 40 man spot by waiving Eli. Then the everyday LU should be Blanco, Pagan, Melky, Buster, Pablo, Belt, Theriot, Crawford. Except for Williams one day of 5 for Buster, that’s everyday. Spot starts only for Arias, Burris, Nate, Christian. If the price is reasonable, Wigginton and Polanco or Kelly Johnson at the deadline. If they’ve completely soured on Belt, several teams could use him-and he has good value.
Doesn’t Eli get some sort of big bonus in his contract if he plays at all with SF this year — $675K or some such? They won’t cut him now that they have to pay him some guaranteed coin, I would think…
Of course not now, they should have done it well before this.
I still don’t get Burriss hitting much, and he often makes serious mental errors it seems. I may not see every at-bat for Christian (.179), but i don’t see him over Nate (.250) based on their records.
Well, nothing I just posted disagrees with that. In my scenario Manny and Christian are gone at the deadline.
What’s your take on Nate and Belt? What sort of trade value to those two have? They sure seem like this season’s bait at least.
Well, with Nate, as I’ve cautioned- with thev uncertainty of the futures of Melky and Pagan- he could come to camp with himself, Blanco, and Christian as the only outfielders. They have to be careful. I think Belt has plenty of value- they could get a guy like Hart who would help more now but with considerably less upside.
Why do you think Cabrera and Pagan are uncertain?
You know something you never see? Poor people playing polo.
True, a string of polopponies costs big bucks..
One of Norton’s best lines, and he had his fair share…
Interesting to listen to Fox guys saying Casilla struggling now. He’s always had some head fakes to overcome. I don’t think his stuff is failing but he just needs a kick in the ass and needs to quit going to pieces because he doesn’t get the calls he wants. Romo is another head case that gets all jiggy when something goes wrong, but Eckersley was just as bad. Seems like closers are all wrapped a little too tight.
What I’ve seen of Casilla, even in the blown saves, is a guy who sucks it up when it’s gets tough, not a guy who goes to pieces.
I agree, though he does like to mutter to himself. I expect he’s just have a rough spell but Fox seems to want to imply he’s in trouble.
Astros ship Myers to White Sox for prospects
I guess that’s better than “Myers ships Astroglide to White Sox for petroleum jelly.”
who is doing radio?
Utley (by Smart Strike out of No Matter What) who runs latter today in the Sussex Stks. at Delaware Park got all of that Horse pitch.
Someone needs to mention to Giant hitters that Hamels’ first pitch is out of the strike and will, no doubt, remain out of the strike zone as long as they continue swinging at it and missing it.
these fox guys sound like Philly homers
No one seemed to notice Crawford was out of the lineup, unless i missed something.
How would Giants fans feel about acquiring Jonathan Broxton at the deadline? That was a rhetorical question. I know the reaction. Just saying it wouldn’t come as a total surprise.
Have you read the Flapper Code of Conduct?
Broxton should never be mentioned as a possible Giant
No to Broxton…
I think the first was Cain’s big inning.
88mph cutter up and in the middle of the plate
I guess ewisco should’ve provided Cain vs. Hamels hitting stats…
Yeah baby, you go Buster. Let’s see what Fox has to say now.
I guess ewisco should’ve provided Hamels vs. Cain hitting stats…
they made excuses for Cole
A flat 92mph FB and this game is officially entertaining
I went to go see a baseball game and a HR Derby broke out.
I hate FOX and Selig for telling me that I can’t watch the Giants on MLB because FOX decided to show Texas and the Angels. Now normally, FUX, would show an East Coast team back here, but today? Nope. Selig is a fuck for agreeing to this shit. I save the word “hate” for folks, that to me are really fuckers and the Bozo code of “I hate you” easily applies to both FUX and Selloutig.
I have great admiration for anyone who hates Fox and Selig. thank you.
Thank you!
And ESPN who shows the fox games over here is showing the dogers
fuckin Selig
I’m gonna go out on a limb and say those two SB attempts by Pagan (which he had stolen) were not H&R’s.
Why not get everyone on the same page and have both Arias and Belt take those pitches.
“What we have here is a failure to communicate.”
Pagan should not have been running. That’s the only page to be read.
I have no memory of a Giant announcer, other than Jon Miller, calling a national TV game? How do they justify having Mitch Williams as an announcer on this game? Go Nate!!!
Here is our favorite time
no outs RISP
Go Giants!
Huge steal by Theriot and very smart base running. Something we don’t get to see very often.
Posey is putting up some gaudy 2nd half numbers. 14/28, 2 hrs, 13 rbi….
Gawd. HR Derby indeed. We need an on-the-scene report from Macdog.
so much for the pitching duel
Cain almost got the ground ball he wanted on that foul
Checking scores from a mall eatery. (Don’t say it, Magnus.) Something tells me this game will not end w/ a 5-4 score.
MELK!
Q. Are they showcasing Nate? Or responding to his interview comments about wanting to play more? Or neither? Or both? (Well, that’s more than one question.)
“That’s a clown question, Bro”. Sorry Pawlie, I just had to use that at least once.
Melkmeister delivers the creme de la creme!!
I should be home watching this, but not even sure it is available.
“What we have here is a failure to pickup the squeeze sign.” Blanco blows.
A squeeze play sign is supposed to be met by a sign from the hitter that he got the sign? Either Flannery missed it, or Posey missed it?
Just listening to that botched squeeze, someone has some answering to do about that one.
Blanco equals dumb.
“He drew a Blanco.”
I couldn’t have described it better Pawlie.
Shit!
Look, we got a couple of good weeks out of the White Shark. We should be grateful.
A guy who’s sucked his entire life is going to continue to suck. Just ask Chuck.
127 pitches for Cole
Well i clearly didn’t prognosticate this very well. entertaining though.
Regardless, excellent thread ewisco.
You did an excellent job with you prognostication today. Care to take your foretelling talents to Saratoga tomorrow? I did a bang up job of botching today’s predictions.
Antonio might be a Bastardo, but Belt is truly a bastard.
Bastard?
is belt some kind of batter-a-holic, does he have to hit bottom before it starts to hit?
Take the belt to him!
This is a weird game for Matty. ERA of 6.53, but excellent WHIP of ,96 . . . As the Fox broadcaster just said, he has been very economical today, but the mistakes have been huge.
* .96
to relieve the tension of a tie came in the 9th I am watching Casino Royal, it has been a while and I have forgotten many of the good parts!
Go Giants!!
Somebody cover Denny’s eyes
they put their closer in a non-save situation
The Phillies brought in their closer in a NON-save situation and he didn’t yield a run.
That’s not the way it’s supposed to happen.
belt, no – crawford, no – nate, no
I am no liking this
Quint?
No.
The one thing about Belt I can’t stand is his freakin low slg pct with men in scoring postion.Yeah big deal he has a good eye and draws some walks,usually with no one on,I want him to rake when your batting usually 6-7 be fuckin aggressive you pansy.
the last year and a half Romo has been ON!
Some of those sliders had hit me written on them.
And yet, nobody is hitting them.
Who said this was going to be easy?
Liking our L-R specialists.
3-4-5…