THE San Francisco Giants Blog

Wither Voggy?

Posted in Uncategorized by Flavor on April 30, 2015

Watching Voggy get treated like a human pinata was tough. But remember, he’s been buried by everyone for most of his career. That chip on his shoulder has been the thing that’s fueled him. And he HAS proven his critics wrong for most of his career.

Having said that, nobody has a career that lasts forever and watching those bombs sail off into the night to be forever tracked by NASA might finally signal the end for the beloved Voggy.  But as I asked last night, who do you want to replace him? Yuzzie-Pet has been been pretty awful this year and frankly, outside of some unreal performances last year, when has this guy looked like a reliable SP that’s gonna take the ball every 5th game and work deep? Having said that, if he keeps his WHIP under freaking 2 I’ll take it……

Regarding McDeePee, there isn’t much more to say. If he’s hurt, DL him. If he’s not, he clearly can’t play baseball at this level right now. Duffy needs to be playing every day until he proves he’s not ready or McDoofuuus shows Bochy he can play baseball.

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  1. sandog said, on April 30, 2015 at 6:35 am

    Vogey’s not going anywhere on this staff full of question marks. Hell, give it a couple of weeks and he might be the 2nd most reliable starter on the team. Vogey, Peavy, Cain, Timmy, Petit, Hudson: I don’t see much difference. None of those guys are winning 10 games this year.

    • sandog said, on April 30, 2015 at 6:37 am

      …I meant to include Heston in the under 10 club as well.

      • Flavor said, on April 30, 2015 at 6:55 am

        If we have another Heston down there let’s bring him up. Do we have anyone named “Brynner” down there? lqtm.

      • chipower9 said, on April 30, 2015 at 10:00 am

        I actually think that if Heston stays in the rotation all year, that he will notch 10 wins.

  2. wilcojoe said, on April 30, 2015 at 7:17 am

    Based on a quick check of the upper level minors, there is no one outside of Crick who appears worthy of a call up. Crick btw, has a 1.42 ERA (1.32 whip) with 19k and 9bb thru three starts….WillieD made an interesting comment last night about potentially moving Romo for some prospects. With Strickland and Okert off to a great start, I would be okay with either one replacing Romo.

    • Carstie Clausen said, on April 30, 2015 at 8:07 am

      Roger, Wilco: You can add Cody Hall to Strickland and Okert as having had good Aprils.

  3. James said, on April 30, 2015 at 7:27 am

    The case for Petit is pretty simple. There’s no reason to look at his early career numbers in Arizona. The reliance by SF on the 2014 starting/bullpen splits to justify keeping him in the bullpen is irrational. His 2013 numbers are no less an indicator of what he might do, and he clearly is able to pitch effectively for long stretches both within games and over several starts. His composite numbers for SF are likely what you’d get from him as a longer term starter, i.e., the guy looks like an actual #5 with an ERA in the upper 3’s, which should be the minimum standard for any ATT-blessed pitcher.

    • chipower9 said, on April 30, 2015 at 10:04 am

      Stats be damned…I would keep him as a long man (where he has pitched more) and let Vogey, Tim, etc. fight for the 5th spot. And, I think that is the way Bochy will play it, too.

    • chipower9 said, on April 30, 2015 at 10:05 am

      .

  4. eddacker said, on April 30, 2015 at 7:32 am

    Yikes. for whatever reason the front office did not bring a solid first OR second starting pitcher to SF. Instead we have seven ‘under 10s’. And I hope Bochy is like a fantasy manager where he can start the one that is going to have a good day _that day_ and not one of the others. McDeePee looked OK at the start of the season, not so much under game conditions. Maybe we should propel the team into full odd year mode and go with a rebuilding year by trading away a star or two and restock the minors. It makes me want to puke to think we have painted ourselves into this corner. HOWEVER many here were praying for one against the dogers at AT&T and now we have 4 of 6.
    Go Gigantes!

    • chipower9 said, on April 30, 2015 at 10:08 am

      I said it before (a couple of weeks ago), and I will say it again, I think it is way too early to talk about blowing the team up and going into rebuild mode. Signs are good with Cain so far, and Pence gets closer and closer to coming back every day. We have not seen the projected starting 25 yet, so I think we just need to chill until we are at least a quarter of the way into the season (if not more), and we get a couple of those guys out there and see what they can do.

  5. willedav said, on April 30, 2015 at 7:40 am

    Cue Jethro Tull version of Living in the Past if you really think Vogs and Lincecum have much use as an SP.
    Petit imo deserves a shot just to show he is not near as bad as either of them, which I think is very probable.
    Hudson is fine, no worse than last year. It would be hard for him to beat anyone if SF never scores for him, which they didn’t–1 run total in his first 3 starts. Vs. Rox the pen choked his first ever W there away.

    Hudson, btw, should be Lincecum’s role model as an SP: keep the ball down and be around the plate. As Blade said yesterday with that fastball he has to be Maddox like in terms of control. Instead he leads the team in walks and has a WHIP of 1.50. And it doesn’t matter who is catching him or whether he is talking to his Dad or not–it’s all him, and he is no longer effective pitching 150 innings, as anyone who has sat through his last few years must realize. Throw him in the pen and have him work an inning or two at a time–I can see where that would benefit him and the club.
    If it works you can re-up him next year for less $$$ and hope he’s found a niche. But dang, we’ve been saying the same BS and looking for hope he’s better for how long now? It’s a pipe dream of your drug of choice.

    • chipower9 said, on April 30, 2015 at 10:10 am

      I agree on the Timmy synopsis, but I still like Petit out of the pen. And as I mentioned earlier on this thread, I don’t see Bochy making that change (Petit in the rotation, and Vogey/Tim out).

  6. giants54 said, on April 30, 2015 at 8:03 am

    Clearly we are seeing why they were willing to go all in on Lester Shields. They settled for Peeved and Sneer. BTW, lose the fn beard.

  7. Carstie Clausen said, on April 30, 2015 at 8:11 am

    Bochy’s “confidence” in Vogelsong will probably last as long as his probable next start vs Miami ~ a team which has troubled SF in the past but which currently reeks of mediocrity. If he can’t beat mediocre squads then he may well be toast.

  8. willedav said, on April 30, 2015 at 8:17 am

    Sabes did make an effort to acquire decent SPs as Giants54 said and there will be more of them out there 2016.
    They won’t be cheap, but there are definitely quality FA guys. No way Nats or Reds keep everyone, and Greinke is an FA too likely to opt out.

    As to Vogs, his last year was much better than 2013 when he was awful. He had an ERA of even 4.00 and cut down the WHIP to below 1.3 and HRs to right at 1 per 9 innings, passable #5 numbers I guess.
    Given the show so far, he would have to pitch 26 innings of shutout baseball and give up 0 HRs in that time to reach those numbers again. His current WHIP is 2.0, so lowering it back near last year level will take extended innings of few baserunners. Chances of that are slim and none.
    I just hate to see all the old and useless ones continue to flail around. Vogs wasn’t even gonna be here, then he was pen only, now he’s starting regularly. I’m the anti-play the kids type, but in the case of the SPs I’m all for it.

  9. dirtnrocksnomo said, on April 30, 2015 at 8:20 am

    I haven’t seen anyone mention it but when the inevitable roster crunch happens the club has to seriously consider cutting loose Vogelsong or Lincecum. I don’t think it will be Lincecum.

    I like Vogelsong but the dude is toast. When he comes in the zone its bombs away. I don’t get the idea that Lincecum should just do what Hudson does. He’s never been like Hudson and never will be. He’s not going to suddenly be a pinpoint control guy. Someone mentioned maybe he could be like Affedlt in the future. I didn’t even know he had an interest in combating human trafficking.

    Bumgarner, Hudson, Peavy ,Cain, Heston would be a good rotation if it weren’t for the fact that Peavy & Cain can’t seem to get on the diamond, Hudson will inevitably run out of gas and there’s no way to know at this point what Heston will be.

    Aoki and Maxwell have been fantastic but I can see why Maxwell keeps getting injured. He’s tapering off just in time for Pence to come back which should coincide with McDP hitting the DL and Duffy getting the nod.

    • chipower9 said, on April 30, 2015 at 10:15 am

      Good one “I didn’t even know he had an interest in combating human trafficking.” lqtm…

    • chipower9 said, on April 30, 2015 at 10:16 am

      “I didn’t even know he had an interest in combating human trafficking.” LMAO. Good one, dirt.

  10. Bozo said, on April 30, 2015 at 8:22 am

    Twenty some odd games into the season and Craw leads the team in HRs and RBIs but y’all want to talk about pitching? OK, Vogs sucks better than Nicole and Peavy, who sucked in his two starts will replace Vogs soon. Petit has only been slightly better than those two this year and putting him in the 5th slot might get you better results, might.
    True, the starting staff as a whole doesn’t look dominating, so what the Giants need to do is score runs. Did I mention that Craw leads the team in HRs and RBIs? That seems to be more worrisome to me than Nicole’s enchilada getting lit up.

  11. blade3colorado said, on April 30, 2015 at 8:31 am

    All great points this morning. Rotation is definitely an issue. I’m glad that giants54 mentioned the fact that the organization made realistic attempts to acquire Lester and Shields (and retain Panda). It’s not like Sabes is operating in a vacuum – other teams are also bidding for these guys services. Couple that with a player’s preferences or prejudices on where he would like to play – see Panda – then it’s easy to see why we have McGiggles, Vogey 2.0, Cain 2.0, Hudson 2.0 and Lincecum 4.0 (or whatever software edition he is on). Ugh.

    That being said, I’m still not too upset on where we stand. Dodgers are the walking wounded right now. Sherpas pitching staff is already a POS, e.g., Kendrick their so-called “Ace” has face planted 3 times since his promising start on the road. Arizona and San Diego are both under .500 too. We only need to stay close for the next couple of months, then Sabes can bring in some reinforcements . . . I hope.

    • chipower9 said, on April 30, 2015 at 10:19 am

      I am with ya, Blade. Way too early to make rash judgement and changes. Wait until we have Pence back, (and Cain) and see how things go. Totally agree…stay close and let Sabes work his deadline magic. No way in hell I would blow up this team and call it a rebuild year.

    • chipower9 said, on April 30, 2015 at 10:20 am

      .

  12. Irish Kevin said, on April 30, 2015 at 8:47 am

    When you hang on to pitchers who are over 35 this is what you get. Basically the Giants have 3 Barry Zitos as starters. I still believe that getting experience is crucial. Pitching to a bunch of Bowkers in the minors no one is going to know how good they are. Bringing someone up from the minors during spring training is not enough IMO. Bring Crick up now, how else are you going to know if he is ready?

    • Carstie Clausen said, on April 30, 2015 at 9:41 am

      Crick: Way i see his role is as Hudson’s replacement. That should happen sometime after the Break. If other things happen, like Peavy not returning any time soon. Ditto Cain not reverting to Horse form. Under those circumstances, and provided he continues his domination in the E.L., Crick could get the call around the first of June. Giants do tend to be conservative about rotation callups.

      • zumiee said, on April 30, 2015 at 9:44 am

        And I think where the Giants are in the standings will factor in, and whether the Giants are going to go “r” word with it: admitting this year is a “rebuilding” year. I like Snarkk’s word, a “transition” year. But it needs to be happening this season.

    • chipower9 said, on April 30, 2015 at 10:25 am

      I think it would be a horrible move to bring the kid up now, and put that pressure on him. He has thrown less than 300 innings in the minors (about 100 in Low A Agusta and a little over a hundred in AA Richmond). Regardless of what you and I think, I can guarantee you, he will not be up anytime soon. MAYBE after the break when rosters expand, but even then, I do not see him cracking the rotation this year (perhaps a spot-start). Keep him down and let him mature in Richmond…and if he is kicking-ass, move him to Sacto for the remainder of the year.

  13. blade3colorado said, on April 30, 2015 at 9:06 am

    Paulinasia, I just read about the “Fall Of Saigon – 40 Years Later” in the San Jose Mercury news. Thought you might be interested. Here is the link . . . http://www.mercurynews.com/bay-area-news/ci_28013565/vietnam-war-40-years-later-fall-saigon-remains?source=pkg

  14. zumiee said, on April 30, 2015 at 9:42 am

    When the Giants finally DL Mr. McGoo, we’re going to hear about how his knee has been bad all season, he was never “right,” blah blah blah. Just DL him now, then.

    • zumiee said, on April 30, 2015 at 9:45 am

      It was just a really bad signing. It happens sometimes, to all GMs.

      • Flavor said, on April 30, 2015 at 9:50 am

        Well, I supported the pick up at the time (it was a trade, not a FA signing) and hoped he could be a David Bell type guy for a year. I mean, the dude had 177 hits last year. Ready for the mind-blow stat of the day? Will Clark had more than 177 hits in a year exactly one time 1989–196 hits. Will’s 2nd highest hit total was 177 (he did that the following year)

      • willedav said, on April 30, 2015 at 10:25 am

        This is Sabes in dumpster dive mode, like adding in Ryan Klesko or Michael tucker and hoping for the best.
        Obviously Mac isn’t any part of the future (Vogs neither) so why bother? It isn’t a rebuild either with Posey Pagan Belt Crawford Pence etc. Giants are still no worse than second best team in division imo.
        Give Duffy (and someone else as SP) the op who has so much more potential value to the team. Sure they will struggle, that’s part of the learning curve.

        Dirt, I did mention Affledt, because that’s where I think Lincecum ultimately would be able to help club most, as a reliever who could get guys out for an inning at most and be a bridge to a closer. Right now he’s a bridge to the team playing catch up. And with that 86mph fastball of his he has to adjust to being Hudson like and keeping the ball down with better control or his next injury will be whiplash from watching his pitches sail around the yard.

      • chipower9 said, on April 30, 2015 at 10:27 am

        Great post, WillieD. I agree on all points.

      • unca_chuck said, on April 30, 2015 at 1:34 pm

        Tucker was egregious because he cost a 1st round pick IIRC.

  15. dirtnrocksnomo said, on April 30, 2015 at 10:12 am

    I’m sure Crick would be brought up if the club thought he was ready. They haven’t shied away from promoting players.

    • Flavor said, on April 30, 2015 at 10:23 am

      apparently in ST, he did not have command. At least, not MLB command

      • dirtnrocksnomo said, on April 30, 2015 at 10:30 am

        Exactly. The mental side of it is so much at the pro level. Why bring the dude up only to see him lose confidence or get shelled?

  16. Irish Kevin said, on April 30, 2015 at 10:28 am

    I don’t know how to post videos so here is a link to a hilarious conversation between a Giants fan and a Dodger fan

    • Irish Kevin said, on April 30, 2015 at 10:28 am

      oops it worked cool

      • Irish Kevin said, on April 30, 2015 at 10:29 am

        There are 3 episodes

      • blade3colorado said, on April 30, 2015 at 11:18 am

        That was funny Kev 🙂

      • chipower9 said, on April 30, 2015 at 12:03 pm

        She needs to be bent over the table and given a Sheboygan bratwurst to go with her steak. I like the panda hat idea offered by dirt.

    • dirtnrocksnomo said, on April 30, 2015 at 10:36 am

      lulz, hilarious.

      Despite her affiliations, I’d put a panda hat on her give her some sweet, sweet lovin’.

    • wilcojoe said, on April 30, 2015 at 1:53 pm

      That’s great Kev. Can you post the other two episodes? It’s not letting me click on the link from my phone.

    • vogelsheiner said, on April 30, 2015 at 5:08 pm

      what does that women’s voice remind me of…….oh right. Amy! MUTE!

  17. chipower9 said, on April 30, 2015 at 10:31 am

    I commented on Crick above at 10:25. Agree…if management thought he was ready, he would be here. He isn’t. Good ERA this year in Richmond (1.42), but 1.342 WHIP, and he is averaging 6.4 BB per 9 innings (9 BB in 12 IP), so yes, there is that command thing (or lack thereof).

    • Carstie Clausen said, on April 30, 2015 at 2:03 pm

      Good points on Crick’s retardation on command and control issues. Aside from that major hurdle he has all the tools and demonstrates them across the board so far at Richmond. Seasoning is needed until or unless the need becomes desperate under circumstances of the Giants NOT already being essentially out of competition.

  18. dirtnrocksnomo said, on April 30, 2015 at 10:54 am

    willie, I thought it was you that mentioned Lincecum and Affeldt. Maybe not having to pace himself allows an increase in velocity for Lincecum. Who knows but his days as a starter are pretty much over.

    • Carstie Clausen said, on April 30, 2015 at 2:06 pm

      You can go back three years and find my comments suggesting that Timmy’s role would be best as a force out of the bullpen. He could go long, short, or whatever. Probably not good in the fireman role, though. Men on base have long been an issue with #55. Right now, as a starter, he remains Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. Switch in roles is unlikely unless he craters in three starts in a row or more often than not over time.

  19. zumiee said, on April 30, 2015 at 12:53 pm

    Awesome videos, Kevin. Funny stuff, and it fits the stereotype I have of people that age. 🙂

  20. chipower9 said, on April 30, 2015 at 3:57 pm

    Not sure how many have seen this, but Bochy confirms what I (and others) have been saying for some time…Vogey will stay in the rotation (for now).

    http://www.csnbayarea.com/giants/rewind-vogelsong-gives-four-homers-will-stay-rotation

    And I know it is not popular with others here, but between Mr. Enchilada and Petit, I would stay the course, too, and have Petit the long guy out of the pen.

  21. Paul Sorensen said, on April 30, 2015 at 4:22 pm

    Hey Flappers. I’m in PA at my Mom’s now for a handful of days; my Dad’s funeral was today. It’s been a tough week. Loads of relatives downstairs getting soused and I’m just not in the mood. So I’m on the Flap instead. 🙂 Tomorrow night, I’m going with my brother and his girlfriend into The City to see Eric Clapton’s 70th birthday concert at Madison Square Garden. I have no idea what to say or do about the Giants now. Maybe next week I’ll have some pearls of wisdom. Steve, thanks for that link, but I gotta tell ya, the past month in Saigon has been miserable with the f-ing Hanoi government shoving this 40th anniversary of Liberation Day/Reunification Day down the throats of the Southerners, who rightfully view today as the anniversary not of liberation or reunification but of the Fall of Saigon. I don’t think I can possibly read another article about it. I know too many Saigonese who lost everything and wish there could be another revolution. As the world turns. Go Giants. And, for my Father…. go Phillies. Oh, that’s just too sad. Unless the Giants trade for Hamels. That could work. Carry on, Gentlemen. Hope life is good in Flap Universe.

    • Flavor said, on April 30, 2015 at 4:25 pm

      sounds like you’re hanging in there. No Giants game to catch, unfortunately. Any watering holes in the area? Or are you just not in the mood for booze regardless of where it is?

    • blade3colorado said, on April 30, 2015 at 4:29 pm

      Actually, that was sort of the crux of the article . . . Today’s VN youth, have hope about the future and rarely talk about the war, while older folks refight it constantly. Glad you are well Paul. Awesome heartfelt post!

    • chipower9 said, on May 1, 2015 at 10:06 am

      I can only imagine what a tough stretch it has been, Paul. Continued wishes for peace and comfort to you and yours. A number of Flappers are attending tomorrow’s Giants game, and we will tilt a few for you and do a toast for your dad.

  22. Flavor said, on April 30, 2015 at 4:48 pm

    I normally don’t dig the huge video uploads in the comment section. I’m not saying don’t do it, especially since some of the guys really get into them. But I don’t really watch too many of them and they clog up the page for me. Just speaking for me.
    But that fucking video Kevin posted earlier today was fucking classic. I watched the other 2 episodes too. Both better than the first. Well done Kevin, thanks for the laugh

  23. Paul Sorensen said, on April 30, 2015 at 5:03 pm

    Note to Craig: I love booze. In almost any situation at any time in any place. And I’ve had my share today, believe me. But for some reason, everybody is yukking it up here, and I’m just not on the yukking it up level. I’m just feeling too much of my Dad’s presence at the moment. So I’m nursing a Laphroaig over ice (in fact, it’s the end of the last bottle I bought him when I was here 2 months ago) and chilling a bit. I think the Clapton concert tomorrow night will help immensely. Everybody deals with these things in different ways. I just miss my Pops too much to be yukking it up in a sloppy har-di-har-har way at the moment.

    • Flavor said, on April 30, 2015 at 5:13 pm

      you’re drinking the end of the bottle that you bought your dad the last time you saw him? Jesus, that’s putting my Coors Light to shame. But seriously, what a touching, quiet, thoughtful moment that must have been (or is). I’m sure Snarkk could appreciate this even more than me so I’ll let him take over once he reads this.

      • snarkk said, on April 30, 2015 at 9:20 pm

        I’ve got some Laphroaig left in the snarrk liquor larder. Consider a finger’s worth already in the glass to toast to Paul and his dad. Last night I was out with a work buddy guy over from Australia. I turned him on to a few NorCal IPAs, and then we went to another place and he intro’d me to a finger’s worth of Ardbeg, a very nice entry-type Isle of Islay single malt. Not as big and nasty as Talisker and Laphroaig, but gives you the intro to the blessed peatiness of the Islays without ripping your lungs out. I, in turn, intro’d him to a taste of Bookers — a kick ass Kentucky sippin’ whisky — smooth and sultry even though at about 136 Proof…
        http://www.ardbeg.com/ardbeg/distillery
        http://laphroaig.com/home.aspx

    • djloo27 said, on April 30, 2015 at 6:27 pm

      My grandmother passed away at 98 and the post funeral gathering was more a celebration of her life than mourning her death. BTW, Paul, there is a fantastic bar called Tracks under the Garden in Penn Station right next to the ticket booth. Great beer selection, friendly staff and they treat you right. The bar is possibly the longest one in NY. Their “raw bar” has a great rep if you’re into that…

      http://www.tracksbargrill.com/

    • dirtnrocksnomo said, on April 30, 2015 at 7:10 pm

      Sorry for your loss, Paul. I’ll sink one for you and your pops tonight.

  24. Flavor said, on April 30, 2015 at 5:40 pm

    Amari Cooper is going to be a beast, the Raiders finally didn’t fuck up a pick….

  25. Paul Sorensen said, on April 30, 2015 at 7:53 pm

    Thanks, guys. And Loo, I know Tracks, I agree, good bar and yeah, I do raw….. 🙂

  26. unca_chuck said, on April 30, 2015 at 7:56 pm

    Yup. I hope Armistead gets his motor running

  27. unca_chuck said, on April 30, 2015 at 8:03 pm

    Sorry to hear that, Paul.

  28. snarkk said, on April 30, 2015 at 9:27 pm

    I’ve counted Voggy out for 2 years going now. He pops up with a fair to good outing every now and again to keep Bochy from kicking him out. But, he sure looks putrid so far save one outing. Given up 8 homers in 19 innings or some such? That, IMO, looks perilously close to “done”..


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