What If Bumgarner Doesn’t Win a Game All Year?
That’s an absurd thought, right? This will only be his 7th start of the season. But still, it’s almost August. And he pitches for the worst team in the league. Maybe tonight is the night? Gonna be an uphill battle to get him to 1 win at some point this season.
I thought it was mildly amusing that Bochy got kicked out and Cain was yelling at the umpire all because they didn’t get a pitch called a strike. Um, how about not giving up multiple 3 run bombs? How many 3 run bombs have the Giants hit this year? Two? Pirates did it twice last night: In our park where it’s supposedly impossible to hit home runs.
I’m tired of hearing about park factors. I went and looked up how to calculate the wrc+. Here it is:
Now, I’m not asking anyone to explain this to me because you’d be bullshitting me if you said you could do it. But I do know this: Lonnie Chisenhall has the highest wrc+ for the Indians at 149. That’s higher than Goldschmidt, Bellinger, Stanton, Murphy and Bryant. Anyone thinking about starting a team with Big Lon over any of those 5 studs?
So we can find and manipulate any saberstat we want to try to justify why our players don’t hit at AT&T and opposing players DO hit at AT&T. Frankly, I’m tired of hearing about it.
Get better hitters, preferably right handed ones. That is the only thing that’s going to fix this team and it’s going to take years to accomplish that even if they started today…..
A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball 
Yes. Give me RH pull hitters. Think Jeff Kent.
I could give a fuck what the wRC or park factors or any of those other fancy stats say. Anyone who knows jack-shit about baseball, and has watched this team this year, knows that they SUCK.
I do hope that Bum gets off the schnide tonight.
Marquis Grissom and Ray-Ray hit plenty of homers here, too…
exactly. It’s just bizarre history revisionism to suggest we can’t have a team that has home run hitters simply because of “park factors”.
52 of JT Snow’s 124 SF Giant bombs came at AT&T. And I don’t think anyone would call JT a big left handed HR hitter. He was ok. Just ok.
I guess James can explain that equation without bullshitting us. For me it’s pretty simple – stop sucking at baseball.
Still no news on our man Nunie in the trade winds. Is Booby a mad poker player or is nobody interested?
Yes, the Ellis Burks factor. Mentioned JT last week. He wasn’t any roided up Rich Aurillia but he put up 20 here. Burks as well. David Fucking BELL put up 20 here.
thinking about something Wilco said last week re: attendance. Sunday there were a lot of teams that had only 20 thou ish in yard. Tribe had only 30tho and they are in first. Looking at last night, similar numbers—half dozen parks with 20thou ish attendance–Detroit Cle SD Tex Sea Tampa and Philly.
Even if ATT really only has 30 something thou, Giants are still raking, so Baer and the bean counters continue to laugh all the way to the bank. At some point hopefully the quality of product they are putting on the field becomes as important as all the enthusiasm for marketing.
The Red Sox called up their 3rd base prospect Rafael Devers with Pablito gone. They are likely kicking the tires on him before making a move. Or they don’t want an oft-injured 3rd baseman.
25 games under .500. 61 games left. A whopping 31.5 out. Yeah, let’s keep the team together.
Pedro Felix hit a few at AT&T. As did Aurilia (he and Mitch are tied for bombs). There have definitely been hitters (and not GREAT hitters) who hit their fair share here. So, cut the bullshit, and just admit that this team has about as much power as a 98 pound weakling.
And by-and-large, the pitching sucks, too! I don’t want all of this sucktitude to be hung on our paltry hitters! They have some company who contributed to this steaming pile of shit.
“I’m an old Bobby Seale fan.” Ha good one Loo, me too. Pretty famous (or infamous) in Oaktown in his day.
Last time I saw him he was in BBQ sauce biz. Buddy of mine is from North Carolina who lives out here now…seems every region Midwest deep south etc. has a different flavor.
I work at a Dr’s office in Oakland. I just saw him about a month ago.
dunno if it’s still around but wasn’t there an exhibit on Panthers? Wonder what he thought of it.
I think you’re the only one who reads my nonsense…
Bum’s dirt bike is 1-0
How many organizations would have fired the manager already – even if it’s not his fault?
I’m very sure there is already a deal in place for Bochy to exit gracefully after the season…
Thread suggestion for a dull day:
Who should be the Giant manager and coaching staff next season?
Not Ron Wotus.
As manager, I mean.
Meulins needs to go. It couldn’t hurt to try someone new in that spot.
I don’t think it matters. We need better players. Good and bad managers are determined by the quality of their players.
well, it is kind of bizarre that so many of Giants vet hitters are struggling so badly this year, anywhere not just ATT. Panik Pence Craw were .800 OPS guys 2 years ago and Belt’s avg etc at all time low. Craw had bunch of triples last year even tho HR numbers dropped, and he has 1 last time I looked. Have all of them fallen so far they’ll never rebound?
At same time you gotta wonder about other side of the equation, like what they would do off Giants pitching. Blach was OK but that one inning Pads just crushed balls all over the yard.
Miller said Cain at this point needs help from his D, and when he didn’t get it got rocked.
I know it’s been rough for Bum but I’d like to see him come up with 4-5 Ws over course of rest of the year and get back some mojo…at the plate too.
Mark Gardner will be the pitching coach.
Get rid of Muleins and have Chili Davis as hitting coach!
So how many of you go with our hitters are trying too hard to hit bombs because the opposing teams are hitting them and the press as well as blogs are calling this out about Giants hitters are not hitting homers
I’m guessing several of our hitters have tangled thought-processes at this point.
Oh and the Giants are going to have to almost go .500 ball to not have 100 losses
Any of you guys catch this on MLB.com? :
“If you like Gray, you might like: Jeff Samardzija
You’re stunned right now. “But Samardzija has a 4-11 record, and a 5.05 ERA,” you’re saying. “He’s been terrible.” Hopefully by now, we shouldn’t have to convince you that pitcher win/loss record means absolutely nothing, especially since the last-place Giants (3.9 runs/game) are the second-lowest scoring team in baseball. So you can safely ignore the 4-11 record; it simply doesn’t matter.
What about Samardzija’s 5.05 ERA, though? We’ll admit it’s not great, but it’s a lot better than it seems. Most importantly, the Giants have had the weakest defense in the National League, which hasn’t helped any of their pitchers, but the underlying numbers show that Samardzija has been far more effective than it seems. For example, his 9.2 strikeout-to-walk ratio isn’t just the best in 2017, it’s one of the five best seasons since integration in 1947.
So there’s that, and there’s also this: using Statcast™, we can look at the quality of contact (what usually happens based on the combination of exit velocity and launch angle) and amount of contact to look at a pitcher’s true skill level. That is, just because a pitcher’s outfielder robs a homer doesn’t mean the pitcher didn’t allow a rocket. Just because an outfielder fails to make an easy play doesn’t mean the pitcher deserves to be nailed with a triple.
By this measure, Samardzija has been as effective as Stephen Strasburg, Chris Archer or Jose Quintana — and better than Gray. We’re not saying he’s as good as them going forward, but so far, the quality of contact has been similar. Owed $54 million over the next three years, Samardzija is certainly more expensive than Gray, but he’d require a fraction of the prospects.”
Anyone buy this? SF’s D THAT bad?
in the OF, yes. Span does not have much range and a way below avg. arm that allows runners to take extra bases. Pence has had a few nice grabs but botched many other more routine plays with bad route/judgement and doesn’t have good arm anymore either.
Neither of them make plays other OFs do and they both play right next to each other. this was true last year and it certainly hasn’t gotten any better.
The outfield lacks range, but the infield D is very solid.
that being said, Smrdz also allows too many balls to be hit to a place where a Giants OF would need a ticket to have any hope of catching them. Yes he is durable and eats innings but at that ERA, how much good does it do you?
They might as well lose over 100 this year. Maybe it will add to the urgency to make sweeping changes.
Plus I’m tired of the 1985 team taking all the abuse. At least they were kind of fun.
Does anyone have the energy to see how much of the ’85 team contributed to the resurgence of ’86?
Unfortunately, there are no Will Clarks and Robby Thompsons in the system now…
No energy when it came to watching David Green at 1st and Manny Trillo at 2nd.
Everyone on that 85 team tanked with career low stats are we’re already washed up has beens.You add Will& Robby the next year and that instantly made them better at 2 positions of need..Really felt bad for Davenport, yeah he probably shouldn’t of been a manager but that team didn’t help him one iota that year!
Other than a couple wins over the Mets that doomed their playoff chances, there was absolutely nothing fun that I remember from that ’85 team.
To Flavor’s 11:11…
Not sure how much of the tailspin you can lay on the manager and coaches. With the exception of the loss of a lot of our “Latino Connection” (Blanco, Pagan, and Adrianza) from last year, the core of the team this year is not much different from the core of last year (the team that had the best record in baseball first half of last season).
I went back to see where the Giants ranked in some of the key offensive categories for the first half of last year. Interesting how they bounce around (for example, BA 7th to 16th to 5th to 21st over four months). Those who follow our boys know they are streaky, and a lot of these numbers support that.
So, not sure how much swapping-out coaches is going to make a difference.
I know it is not what everyone wants to hear, but we all know there is a really good chance that there will NOT be wholesale changes to this team for next year (players, and probably coaches, too). I am hoping that they can get a legit OFer and tweak the bullpen. I don’t have confidence that much outside of that will happen.
April 2016
BA – 7th, OBP – 4th, SLG – 10th, OPS – 9TH, Runs – 6th, HR – 14th
May 2016
BA – 16th, OBP – 14th, SLG – 27th, OPS – 23rd, Runs – 23rd, HR – 28th
June 2016
BA – 5th, OBP – 6th, SLG – 23rd, OPS – 13th, Runs – 7rd, HR – 28th
July 2016
BA – 21st, OBP – 15th, SLG – 26th, OPS – 21st, Runs – 26th, HR – 25th
August 2016
BA – 11th, OBP – 8th, SLG – 21st, OPS – 18th, Runs – 22nd, HR – 29th
Unfortunately they don’t know what a legit outfielder looks like Chi, they haven’t drafted one since Chili Davis..
Smarj’s walk to strikeout ratio is great, but he’s given up more bombs than walks. He leads the Giants in dingers given up. He’s 15 in the league with 21. 12 of the 14 pitchers above him have losing records. . . .
That needs to factor in somewhere.
I hope Bummie loses all the rest of his games. It’ll give him extra incentive next year.
Smarj’s home/away splits:
Home: 2-5 / 6.50 era / 6 dingers / whip 1.273
Away: 2-6 / 12.29 / 15 / whip 1.145
So, I don’t buy a lot of what MLB.com is selling. But if we can trade him . . . go for it.
He is awful. Anyone who takes that contract is crazier than the people who gave it to him…
“add Will& Robby the next year and that instantly made them better at 2 positions of need”
The “add 2” thing worked out very well for the Dodgers this season. Where would they be without Bellinger and Taylor? Colorado and Arizona would be right there with the Dodgers.
Flav posted a video of Dravecky last night which lead me to watching some really cool YouTube videos of the 89 earthquake. There were some great moments from KGO’s newscast immediately after it happened. Pete Wilson , Cheryl Jennings, Don Sanchez, and Anna Chavez were the newscasters I grew up with. You could really see the fear permeating thru the newsroom with people running around like crazy in the background. Considering the lack of information they had back then, they did a tremendous job of staying calm and delivering the news.
Definitely worth checking out.
every year I learn something new about baseball. This year, I learned that having a fantastic K/bb ratio is not a guarantee for shit. Next year, maybe I learn why there is value in wrc+ because this year I still think it’s a joke. Don’t trust every saberstat you see. The sabermetric world trips on itself to be the next *big* stat everyone looks at to predict future success. I’m sorry, but when Lonnie fucking Chisenhall has a better wrc+ than those 5 guys I listed earlier today, that’s an overblown stat.
anyone listen to Franny when he fills in for Tommy? I go back and forth from hating him to liking him. He did a pretty epic Bobby Evans impersonation while he and Lund were interviewing Crick. But he’s one of those “I played the game, I know” dudes and mostly those dudes can go fuck themselves.
Who are Franny and Tommy? Tolbert?
Frandsen and Tolbert. But Tolbert has been off a lot lately so they pair Franny with Lund.
Giants could probably unload Cueto or Smdj on the Yanks by taking back some part of Ellsbury’s horrendous contract. I’d look into that…
not a bad idea. What is he still owed?
nevermind, I looked it up, 64 mil? Sure, bring him aboard. He’s gotta still be better than Pence or Span
Todd Frazier hits into triple play in first Yankee Stadium AB!
Popular trivia question: Can you name the player who hit into a TP in his final big league AB?
Would anyone recognize the name?
I think so Chuck. He didn’t have much of a playing career, but he was a baseball lifer with SFG connections…
I can’t offer a guess. And I don’t cheat in these games like sometimes happens here at the Flap.
actually, fuck it, I’ll toss out the first name that came to me: Greg Litton.
Goes back much further, but obviously not the kind of thing you can reason out. Just a fluky thing that you either heard sometime or didn’t…
that’s why i didn’t spend much time on it. Just went with first name that came to me.
“But he’s one of those “I played the game, I know” dudes”
Which is why sabermetrics got invented. It was a powerful response from the fans to the sometimes ignorant arrogance of players and managers. And now sabermetrics has been absorbed so strongly by the sport.
To think it all started by a guy, Bill James, who worked as a nightwatchman at a warehouse. In his spare time, he put his little newsletter together and mimeographed copies, stapled them together, and mailed them out to the few that had heard of it. And every page breathed with fresh insight and creativity. A remarkable story. Later he was hired by the Red Sox to help them break “the curse.”
Now there’s more SABR data than anyone could hope for. A deluge. And more coming. How often does a pitcher get barreled up by the batter? Inquiring minds want to know! 🙂
Fun fact: Matt Moore has the 5th highest barreled-up rate in MLB, meaning the 5th worst.
i love the saber metric world. I just see a lot of stupid shit that is way more theoretical than usable and the pendulum has swung too far towards the wrong direction of stats.
It’s very bleak.
Calixte down, Stratton up.
Titanic deck chairs, shuffled.
So where do you guys stand on Toomgis? Me and San Diggity have been in a heated text debate all afternoon about his general worth
Regarding Toomgis, I think they could have come up with something that looks a little less creepy and I think there is room for improvement regarding the bits they run on the ads themselves, BUT I think the concept of coming up with a mascot that goes along with the Too Much Good Stuff phrase is fucking brilliant.
Overall, I’m down with Toomgis–even though the ads annoy me as well.
The commercials are alright, IMO. Like all commercials, they get way over-played.
This guy kind of looks like him:
So does this guy…
Here are a couple of clues for Loo’s trivia question: (I had to google it) This guy was the Dodgers catcher for the last 5 innings of the last game played at Ebbet’s Field and he was known for growing a vegetable garden at Shea Stadium when he was the Mets bullpen catcher.
I still wouldn’t have got it with those clues, but maybe one of you older dudes will….
those clues aren’t gonna do it for me.
They MIGHT for someone like Pawlie, Lurker, or Mac.
this is a good example of what’s wrong with the Giants. Slow and weak. Two base hits to start the 2nd. Let’s see if they can get these runs in. I’m betting not even tho it’s 1st and 2nd, no one out
Toomgis is awesome as far as I’m concerned.
Why. What do you like about him?
Remember the early commercial with that homely chick? The twizzlers for hair is pretty awesome. He can just use it as a straw, Flavor! The only thing that would of made it better is if he’d banged her on the chip display.
I don’t care for him so much. He reminds me of that nasty apple tree from the Wizard Of Oz.
I was scared shit of him till I was about 45…
Wouldn’t it be awesome if Toomgis had a couple of Rolling Rock cans as part of his kit?
HA! I was thinking that as I proclaimed his awesomeness but thought it might be just too much.
lol, taylor made dp and that’s how we score a run. Hilarious.
Well that was a Bell ringer of a throw!
Only way the Giants score these days..
I also like the new awkward Verizon guy. His shtick cracks me up. “It would be nice to use your car for some shelter from the coyotes.”
I think I’m gonna be in the minority on this one as well.
no that’s solid. Do you watch Silicon Valley? You should. Best comedy series ever.
I watched a little bit of an episode with my daughter once and seemed pretty good, but for whatever reason I don’t watch any TV series these days.
Hey I’m gonna throw out Mackey Sasser for Loo’s TP, he couldn’t throw to second base, so he’s a easy target for a TP??? But what the hell I have a skink on are a skunk on so I doubt I have this bad boy..
What up Kat? You either didn’t read my clues or you got a pretty good skink going already, cuz Mackey Sasser never suited it up at Ebbet’s Field!
skink time. My favorite. Keep posting!
He’s a snack giant made of SNACKS. What’s not to like?
his face. his voice. his stupid aversion to the use of conjunctions…..
I don’t think his elision of conjunctions evinces aversion–I think it’s just supposed to show his good-natured stupidity, which of course many people find charming
i don’t find stupid charming. Stupid in 75% of the reason our country has elected a moron to be our leader. The other 25% were Dems having zero message other than “Don’t vote for the moron”.
I think you identified the central characteristic of the ad’s hero–stupidity. I agreed with you. And that aspect of the ads annoys me, whenever I actually watch them for a moment or two. But a lot of very smart, very ruthless people are working on behalf of the moron in chief. Their intelligence is a lot more dangerous than the stupidity of a convenience store ad.
Oh Boy…wait until Snarrk finds out about this.
lol, that was the FIRST THING I thought of. Slow burn on his big assed deck downing some sweet drink with the sun setting.
oh shoot there goes trading nunez at the deadline.
At the brewpub with Snarkette #2. I told her you guys would be on it. Phucking Nunez! If he has a chipped elbow I’m throwing a Phucking aneurysm !!!!
that sucks. I was really picturing you on that big assed deck downing a strong drink with the sun setting.
Nunez really is a dumb fuck on the bases.
I like how he was completely oblivious to the fact he fucked that up. Throwing seeds in his mouth and goofing with his homey in RF about misplaying that fly ball.
I used to not understand why the Twins gave him up, but it has long been crystal clear.
Panik attack! the good moments are few and far between, but there they are
Pirates OF D not helping out their SP much either. 6-0!
I’m not looking for human form or high brow humor from my mascots. Other than Toomgis who is a good mascot out there? And don’t bring me that pencil neck geek from Verizon.
these days i enjoy the SW Fenwick commercial
Yeah, that one is pretty good but still humans. Toomgis has no contemporaries I guess. Maybe Chester cheetah? That guy bugs me.
Stephen Brault could be coming in to pitch. Went to high school with my son and used to come over to my old house every now and then.
One of 3 MLB pitchers who attended high school with my son. (AJ Griffin, Joe Musgrove)
Does Panik just have really short legs or what? Whenever he’s digging it out on the base paths this is what I see.
Love the sound effects!
For whatever reason, I was never a big Flintstones guy, but I watched it plenty back in the day when you had like 6 channels to choose from.
Yeah, I remember looking forward to the Pink Panther and Popeye cartoons but with so few choices you took whatever was on.
Popeye was the best. Basically every episode was based on Bluto attempting to sexually assault Olive Oyle with Popeye eventually beating the crap out of him.
lol. and she was so unhot. I never understood why they battled over her.
The Crave Van crashing into the wedding cake is pretty funny.
I like how the woman screams: “We’ve got a craving!!!” and everything goes into motion. The song riff is actually pretty good, too.
We’ll ignore the privacy issues being ignored in the commercial, the fact that they’re monitoring private conversations.
I’ve said this before, but I think the Crave Van is an awesome looking vehicle.
I had this plan at one point that posting a pic of the Crave Van was going to be my way of celebrating a Giant victory. My answer to your Clint Eastwood gif. I never followed through on it, but I still kind of like the concept.
So Nunez hit it into the first archway?
Yes, the archways go up in number from right to left. Jon Miller probably decided that.
I believe the first arch is officially known as “The Felipe Crespo Arch.”
after the first one I have no idea where the other ones are even following the map you just gave out
The radio guys faithfully refer to the arches using their ordinal numbers. It does seem like Miller does so with extra enthusiasm.
for me, the SW Fenwick ad and the Kona Brewing bruddah ads can play back to back forever in place of the rest of them
One life. No Toomgis.
Good one.
I’m not down with the Kona bruddas, but that probably has something to do with me projecting on them my dislike for any beer that costs more than about $8 for a 12 pack.
Especially one that tastes like those you prefer!
“Thanks, Auntie.”
The Progressive Insurance box dude who kind of acts like Austin Powers is definitely a contemporary of Toomgis—-and I think he’s pretty good too.
I just heard the answer to Loo’s trivia question from the Mets announcer.
Did you see my clues I posted? You were one of the guys I thought they might help.
Yes, I had thought of someone with a similar-sounding name but it wasn’t right.
i don’t wanna call this too early, but I think MadBum is gonna get his first win of the year.
the Pitt defense is just shockingly bad. I’m wondering if they are considering getting Butcher Bell off first base and maybe they want Belt and Arroyo for McCutchen.
tough call for them on Cutch. the option is for $14 mil next year. Kinda doubt they would offer big extension contract and he’s having a nice year. 3 yrs younger than Span iirc. Toss in Strick or one of the LHPs for Watson maybe.
There’s SDs boy!
Like, I get the sequential direction of the archways, but during a play if Kuip yells out which archway it’s off, I have no idea which one it is. And I don’t have a clue how many there are. Five? Which one was I nearest in yesterday’s video? One?
Mac can you please disclose the answer to the trivia question. It’s not cheating if you heard it from an announcer. It’s cheating if you look it up on the internet which I know has gone down here and I don’t like that one fuck.
Don’t do it Mac! Pawlie or Lurker are gonna get it when they see my clues!
but i gotta hit the sack and I really want to know. Just text me the answer so I can sleep tonight.
If you’re looking for a good beer that isn’t so hoppy that it tastes like you’re eating grass, Kona Big Wave is good. Expensive? Sure but “liquid aloha” is some branding genius and it is good.
If I’m gonna have a fancy, craft brew, I like to go with a Blue Moon.
yes. But on the hoppy beers, Dogfish Head 90 Minute IPA is surely one of the best beers brewed in the USA.
I’ve had Dogfish and they make good brews but I’m just not into hoppy beers anymore. I’ve been gravitating to ambers, pils/lagers.
Shoot. Usually when I throw that Blue Moon comment out there, it takes someone about 2 seconds to announce that Blue Moon isn’t a craft beer and is brewed by Coors.
I like getting a rise out of those hipster craft brew dudes.
wtf is a craft brew? no rice?
WTF!!
10-ZIP!
I was so stunned that I couldn’t think of anything else.
final thought: if there are any trivia questions that organically pop up at the Flap please don’t cheat on the internet. If you don’t know the answer, just throw out a guess, it don’t cost nothing. And if you’re wrong, let others enjoy the game. We have so little to enjoy at the Flap this year. Cheating on trivia questions is about as low as it gets. That is all. Good night.
I like Jon Miller a lot, but I could do with less of some of his affectations. He has to keep reminding us that the right field wall is the Willie Mays Wall. Who cares?
Mrs. James is a little sad about Nunie. She does not care about SABR stats.
as were a bunch of fans replying on twitter feeds I saw from cbs site.
Pirate announcers speculate Nunie must have gotten traded. Pirate feed showing him hugging his teammates in a way that looks like good-bye.
yeah, Kruk and Kuip did something similar
Well, I’ll miss him. His great, all knowing all powerful all stupid self is gone.
Goodbye, Nunie.
Where did he go?
don’t know yet. Our beat writers are predictably completely out to lunch on this. Scrambling.
Don’t know yet.
To the Red Sox for Benintendi.
Don’t tease us. 🙂
Just trying to spice things up a little bit!
Make room for Pablo, who should return in early August–the same time in the season he arrived originally in 2008. Hope he can remember how to play 3B